A Plea for HubPages to Market and Pay Writers for Their Content

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  1. Austinstar profile image85
    Austinstarposted 10 years ago

    "Writers write - Sites that want to exploit writers need to do the marketing and promotions, as well as PAY the writers for their product."

    From WillStarr:


    It would benefit both parties if each did what they do best...writers should write, and the internet gurus (at HP) should then use their skills to do the marketing. Both parties would benefit.

    As it is, neither party benefits since the work just sits there.

    1. rose-the planner profile image62
      rose-the plannerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Well said and couldn't agree more!!!!

    2. Marisa Wright profile image86
      Marisa Wrightposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      In fact, HubPages does do some marketing behind the scenes - I once met someone who did some work for them.  However, if they did it on a large scale, it would cost them money to do - whether by hiring more staff, or outsourcing it.  That would mean their costs go up, so they would have to reduce the share they pay to writers.  So we'd be back where we started.

      The other point to note is that if an article isn't suited to the internet (in other words, if no one is actively searching for articles like it), then no amount of marketing will bring readers.  So before embarking on any marketing, HubPages would have to assess the marketability of each article - more manpower at more cost.

  2. Blond Logic profile image93
    Blond Logicposted 10 years ago

    Well said Austinstar. I agree! This would free us up to do more  writing.
    With many people leaving, now is the time to make this bold step and give us the assistance we need.

  3. wilderness profile image95
    wildernessposted 10 years ago

    Both agree and disagree.  You can hire someone to "market" your hubs, but there is absolutely no possibility that HP can apply individual attention to each and every hub. 

    What HP can do is supply a site that is optimized to promote traffic through its architecture and interlinking.  HP had that down very well until Panda hit - since that time it has tried to re-invent whatever they had that made the site so effective, and are still working on it.

    So.  If you do not want to be aware of necessary SEO or do the off site marketing, hire someone to do it for you.  I suspect you will quickly figure out the depending on adsense, amazon and other affiliate programs won't come close to paying the bill.  It used to, when all you needed was a few thousand backlinks from anywhere, but that isn't going to work anymore.  It takes far more, and that takes time and effort - time and effort that HP simply cannot supply to every hub for the measly income they earn from individual hubs.

    1. WryLilt profile image89
      WryLiltposted 10 years agoin reply to this


    2. SagaSphere profile image65
      SagaSphereposted 10 years agoin reply to this


  4. psycheskinner profile image83
    psycheskinnerposted 10 years ago

    I don't really understand what you are asking for that they aren't already doing.

    Online content is a search engine-fed product and Hubpages clearly work very hard to appeal to search engines.

    And they are paying. But they have to earn, and not spend too much, to have anything to pay us.

  5. SidKemp profile image87
    SidKempposted 10 years ago

    Let everyone do what they do best - yes.

    Writer write - yes.

    HubPages creates, maintains, and improves a site where writers can write online, grow in community, and make revenue on ads posted on their articles - yes.

    Google sells ads and puts them on articles on HubPages, cooperating with HubPages to do it - Yes.

    The original business model for HubPages and their writers did not require marketing and promotion of articles. HubPages did not make money from us - it was not a parasitism or a work-for-hire site. It was a symbiosis.

    Now, marketing is needed. I would suggest that HubPages is not qualified to do that. And, unless they are making tons of money (and I doubt that they are), they can't afford to. Also, marketing individual articles or topics to many markets is a huge task.

    Perhaps some writers on HubPages could pay (or trade) for marketing of their hubs. I can't afford that.

    Perhaps there is no longer a win-win arrangement that is possible. Certainly the win is not as big as it was. Quite possibly, the win is too small for writers who won't market their work.

    Writers can market their own work - but is it worth it?

    I think that's the question each hubber has to answer for himself or herself.

    1. Barbara Kay profile image74
      Barbara Kayposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      I used the free $100 worth of advertising that Adsense offered a year or two ago for my website. The amount of traffic I got for that money was pathetic. Unless you are selling something big, you'll never earn enough money for paid traffic.

    2. phdast7 profile image82
      phdast7posted 10 years agoin reply to this


      Thanks for a  simple & logical breakdown of this many faceted situation.

      It is not simple, but complex; different parties have various goals/motives.

      Some of us just want to write so income is not an issue. Very helpful.

  6. tillsontitan profile image83
    tillsontitanposted 10 years ago

    You have some comments here that make good points.  While it would be nice for HP to market our writing, that is not their job.  They do help us to promote our hubs by giving us ideas and lessons, but the marketing is up to us.  If we help each other and share on other social media sites we are helping each other market in a small way.
    The rest is up to each writer.  HP provides a site that lets us publish our own work and helps us get paid to do it.  I think that's a pretty good deal in a world where everyone's always looking to get paid.  Using keywords and finding subjects that do well in search engines is up to us if we're looking to make a lot of money.
    If we're just looking to write and hopefully write well, this is the place as long as we keep things on a quality level.

  7. DonnaCSmith profile image83
    DonnaCSmithposted 10 years ago

    Oh how nice it would be if all writers had to do was write. But we have to sell what we write. Book authors, freelancers we all have to sell our product.

  8. PHILLYDREAMER profile image80
    PHILLYDREAMERposted 10 years ago

    HubPages allows writers to publish just about any content they wish.  This freedom comes from the fact that they can generate income through our writing with very little overhead.  If they were to invest in marketing our Hubs, there would have to be a strict standard set for all Hubs that are published.  This would lead to less creative freedom for writers. 

    Self promotion is a big part of professional writing these days.  I've read hundreds of books by talented writers that should be read by the masses, but most of these books won't see the light of day because the market is filled with competition.  To rise above it you have to have something other writers don't possess, and that's the ability to market yourself. 

    In conclusion, if you are seriously interested in boosting your readership and earning income with your writing, learn how to market your writing.  HubPages is meant to be a stepping stone and not the final destination.  Use what they give you and grow as a writer, and when you think your ready, move on to the next step.

    1. profile image0
      Beth37posted 10 years agoin reply to this

      *almost any content they want.

  9. Robin profile image86
    Robinposted 10 years ago

    Hi AustinStar,

    We are working on more marketing ideas; mainly how we can showcase our authors better on HubPages.  I understand that it's frustrating when you aren't seeing traffic when you work so hard on your Hubs.  It is always on our mind how we can help our authors gain more readership.  Right now we feel that it's by improving the quality of the Hubs on HubPages.  This has been our main focus since last Fall and will be for the foreseeable future.  Thanks for the feedback.  smile

    1. LuisEGonzalez profile image80
      LuisEGonzalezposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Robin, could you tell us what other efforts/strategies are being considered by HP? Just curious and thanks.

  10. diogenes profile image70
    diogenesposted 10 years ago

    Hi Star;  I see that you got this idea because of Old Poolman sadly packing it in.  HP is not a site for writers in the traditional sense.  Newspaper reporters get paid a good salary, paid for by sales of the paper and the ads they carry.  They dont have to "market" their work, but they are, in the main, effective writers.  Some on HP are, too, of course, but not, I think, the majority, who couldn't get a paying job as writers, and to expect more from their efforts herein is whistling into a bitter wind indeed.  HP, as has been said by contributors like Will, is for effective writers who have identified a niche and are Internet savy about all the the ways in this intellectual jungle to have their work viewed by those who buy ads.  These are the people who make decent money:  HP carries the rest of us, really, as padding and the fact they do make some money - enough to justify maintaining the site.
    I see so much, frankly, rubbish on here.  Poetry I could write in five minutes blindfold...articles bristling with so many typos and errors any editor would can it without more than a cursory glance.  But all these aspiring writers have a chance to see their work in print and actually get a feedback from other HP members; remarks usually kind and often well thought out.
    Most contributors here should not expect too much and the few sheckels they get should be gratefully received and far from being the central reason they publish on here.
    Remember...life can always get worse, buit making life better is much harder to achieve.
    I was a professional reporter and columnist for some 20 years and never got paid less than 10 cents a word.  On HP and Google I have made about 400 pounds in 3 years!  But I enjoyed doing it and only lately has it palled...but everything comes to an end one day.
    Good fortune to all my fellow hubbers...Bob

    1. Marisa Wright profile image86
      Marisa Wrightposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Very well put and sums it up perfectly.

      HubPages must share some of the blame because some of its marketing says things like "write what you love and make money", which was never going to be true.   Very few professional writers get to write whatever they darn well please - they have to write what their client wants, or what their editor wants.  They have to modify their style to suit the needs of the publication - whether it's an academic treatise or a women's magazine or a tabloid newspaper. 

      Of course there have been writers who wrote what they loved and ultimately became successful - but there are many, many more who starved in garrets!   It was never realistic to let writers think they could write whatever they darn well pleased, and earn an income from it. 

      A magazine doesn't accept articles from all comers - its editor sifts through and selects the ones which fit their target audience.  If it didn't, its audience would soon stop buying and the magazine would fold.   In the past, online article sites haven't had to do that.  Now the way the internet works has changed, and so HubPages has to get rid of all the material that doesn't suit its paying audience.   That's inevitably going to include some good articles which are simply not what the audience wants.  That's commercial reality.

  11. rebthomas profile image82
    rebthomasposted 10 years ago

    I try to avoid some of these conversations because they go off on tangents that benefit no one but sometimes I feel I should speak out.  There is a lot of writer bashing done on these forums that really should be about helping others find answers to their questions.  We are all trying to be writers because we enjoy writing and perhaps would like to make it our full time job or we find it therapeutic or whatever reason we have.  To say others have no 'right' to write or that others works are rubbish seems harsh and unnecessary.  (and who gives out these rights may I ask?)  We all have different writing skills and levels and even styles.  Because someone does not like another's style of writing doesn't make one any better than the other.  It just makes it different.  If we all liked the same style we would all be Stephen King fans would we not?  I just think we need to curb our judgments and try to help the community.

    1. Marisa Wright profile image86
      Marisa Wrightposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      I haven't noticed anyone judging other Hubbers' writing in this thread?

      This has nothing to do with people liking or disliking an individual's writing. It has to do with the nature of writing online.

      If a writer is unable to learn how to write for an online audience, then they're not going to make money.  That's just a fact, not a criticism - they may be an excellent writer, it's just not a style that suits them for one reason or another.

      I see writers claiming their writing has been insulted by HubPages - but it's because they're misunderstanding the Featured/unFeatured process.  In most cases, their Hubs have been unFeatured for "lack of engagement" - which means they're not getting enough traffic.  Nothing to do with the quality of the writing, probably - it's just no one on the internet is searching for that topic.  Again, just a fact, not a criticism.

      HubPages has always preferred 'search engine friendly' articles, because that's how it makes its money.   Now, it's going one step further, something that has been forced upon them by the changing circumstances on the internet.  Previously articles which weren't 'search engine friendly' were allowed to co-exist equally with income-producing articles - now, they're being relegated to a second tier, which are visible only to other Hubbers.  That doesn't mean they're bad writing, it just means they're not suitable for HubPages' business model.

      1. madscientist12 profile image90
        madscientist12posted 10 years agoin reply to this

        I agree with you. I wanted to add something about the featured vs. unfeatured hubs. All of my hubs are featured, and I have some hubs that are earning as little as 15 views per month. Having a featured hub is not about the number of views you get, it's about the content. When you write a hub, Hub Pages has a box with guidelines for a featured hub in the top, right-hand corner. If you follow these guidelines, your hub will be featured. That's it, very simple.

  12. rose-the planner profile image62
    rose-the plannerposted 10 years ago

    @rebthomas.......well said!

  13. WryLilt profile image89
    WryLiltposted 10 years ago

    You can either get an up front one off payment. Or you can payment over a time period. An article I could sell for $20 might make me $300 over 2 years at Hubpages. Some have made me quite a bit more than that.

    Hubpages has fantastic information on SEO, plus the apprenticeship program, plus dozens of highly trafficked hubbers have written in depth guides on HOW to get traffic.

    If you want to be paid for your writing, go to a site where people want to buy it. This is a place to develop passive long term income, not instant riches.

    I was just complaining the other day that I have even gone so far as to message some hubbers personally and offer some basic help to increase traffic. Yet some of these hubbers still, a year or two on, haven't bothered doing anything and still whinge that they're getting no traffic or money.

    People have a sense of entitlement these days. Just because you can WRITE doesn't make you a GOOD writer.There are millions of starving poets, authors and the like out there. There is a limited audience, and limited chances at publication by large companies. Many real world writers end up paying thousands to self publish books and still don't sell more than 100.

    Hubpages gives you a FREE platform to write on, with few but reasonable limitations (because it is their site after all.) They also give you heaps of guides on how to get money and traffic. And in the 3+ years I've been here, they have rolled out innumerable changes, always in the interest of either raising click through advert rates or Google rankings. They also integrate all the advertising options into the site so you don't need to do a thing other than input your affiliate codes - and when eBay refused to let hubbers use the epn here, they approached eBay directly to work out a compromise. Not to mention all the interlinking on the site which means your hub can appear on other people's hubs as well as in topic areas and get free eyes on it.

    It's also a great site to "trial" topics before creating a full blown personal website. And a great way to "funnel" traffic to your own topical sites or create backlinks.

    Do you have your own website? If not, I'd suggest you start one. Even a free blogger blog. Having somewhere around 35 myself, I know that it is a LOT harder to get traffic to a website you start from scratch than Hubpages, unless you really know what you're doing.

    1. Marisa Wright profile image86
      Marisa Wrightposted 10 years agoin reply to this


      Personally I don't agree with many of the changes that HubPages have made, but everyone has different opinions about how to succeed online and they're entitled to make those decisions.

      1. WryLilt profile image89
        WryLiltposted 10 years agoin reply to this

        I do agree - but at the same time, it bothers me a lot less than it used to. I apply the "don't put all your eggs in one basket" rule everywhere now. The change that HP has made that I don't like may well work for some of my content, but not for others. Things I don't like on sites like Wizzley or Squidoo might help in different ways. I see it as hedging bets - if Google makes a change, they're less likely to all get slapped because they have a different set of rules and spam measures in place.

        Having built so many of my own sites now and been absolutely blind to why they weren't working, I can see how hugely difficult it must be on a bigger scale, with such a large amount of overhead/profit at risk.

        But yes, some changes are/were annoying lol

    2. WryLilt profile image89
      WryLiltposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      And also to the point the OP made about "exploiting" writers.

      Let's see:
      -Hubpages gives you free quality building information, affiliate linkups, a site which is moderated and
      -You give them 40% of impressions. Out of which, 10% will go to the person who referred you (if someone did) and 9-12% will go to people who use trackers in their links to direct traffic elsewhere on the site.

      That means if YOUR content makes one dollar, Hubpages could ultimately end up with as little as 18c in that dollar. As many people claim to make as little as $5 over a six month period, that  means Hubpages will likely have got as little as 90c or less from them for that time period.

      I don't know any other site with good support, a full training centre, a very simple capsule system (so you can have a great looking article without knowing ANY code) and a stack of information for 90c. A 90c which you don't even have to pay up front.

      Hubpages employs about 20 staff. AND spends thousands each month in server hosting costs. AND anything they have to outsource or hire extra staff for. It's not like they're not out of pocket themselves.

      1. phdast7 profile image82
        phdast7posted 10 years agoin reply to this

        WryLit -   I am not unhappy with HP.  I have had a good two years here and hope to have several more.   You have made and are making lots of good and useful points, but I want to put one thing you said  in perspective, please.    I am pulling this directly from your comment above:

        -- "That means if YOUR content makes one dollar, Hubpages could ultimately end up with as little as 18c in that dollar." --

        First :  That number -- 18 cents -- is misleading unless you multiply  18 times all the dollars made by every hubber every day all month long.   That quite large number would be the monthly income that HP has to pay its employees, expenses etcetera.

        Second :  About 10 years ago I did some research when a local grocery stor chain in my area closed.   They seemed busy and I could not understand why they were not profitable.   The research indicated that most grocery stores made 1-5 cents profit on every dollar spent in the store by their customers.   So I  do not feel sad about HP having to cope with 18 cents of each dollar.   

        I think we might all be surprised at what the cents on the dollar quotient is for many businesses -- which is why volume is so often more important than price per item and why Mon and Pop stores charge five dollars for a stuffed animal, but Walmart only charges two dollars.

        1. Marisa Wright profile image86
          Marisa Wrightposted 10 years agoin reply to this

          You may also be interested to know that HubPages was on the verge of breaking even just before the Great Panda Disaster of 2011.  I know because it was announced - breaking even so early in its life was a major achievement for a website.

          Since then the site has had a massive drop in traffic and has had to pay out significant extra money to make all the changes.  So I'm guessing they are not making as much money as you think.

        2. wilderness profile image95
          wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

          Aren't you forgetting something?  That grocery store keeps 5 cents profit out of every dollar spent.  HP keeps 18 cents out ever dollar coming in.  Temporarily, then it pays the employees, pays the rent, pays the host, pays the electrical bill, pays, pays, pays.

          You're comparing apples and oranges.

    3. vocalcoach profile image94
      vocalcoachposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      I second everything you've said! I'm grateful to HP for helping me to grow and develop as a writer.  And as I'm learning, I'm getting paid.
      I guess it's all about how we look at it.

    4. Dale Hyde profile image81
      Dale Hydeposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      "This is a place to develop passive long term income, not instant riches."

      I certainly disagree with the above statement.  HubPages used to promote passive income, but now if one does not tweak and update continually, they stand a good chance of their hubs becoming unfeatured and hit with a "noindex" label.

  14. profile image0
    delleaposted 10 years ago

    I agree with WryLilt, I think that many of the people who leave HubPages either do not have the patience to stay and to write within the guidelines, or they do not have the writing talent to grab traffic, etc. I have only been on HP a couple of months, and I am by no means anywhere near as successful as WryLilt, however from reading complaint posts on HP I've seen that I have earned more money in a few months than some people have earned here in years. I don't mean to be rude, but I truly believe a lot of it has to do with (a) you get out of HP what you put into it, (b) your writing style or lack thereof, and (c) realizing that you won't make a million bucks in a day on HP because HP is more about long-term residual income. Now granted, I am new here at HP, however I have over a decade of successful web design, SEO, and blogging that I bring with my presence here on HP. WryLilt is experienced, and she has made a lot of good points, she has even given me some suggestions, and  in turn I suggest you read what she has to say. Even her final statement is true, that it's much harder to get traffic to web sites than to your hubs on HP.... it took me years to get my web sites to the top listings of various search engines, but with patience, diligence, and willingness to learn, I did it... and I expect the same kind of residual success here as I spend more time writing within the HP community and learning from hubbers like WryLilt.

  15. psycheskinner profile image83
    psycheskinnerposted 10 years ago

    And some leave simply because they find an easier way to earn elsewhere.  It's all good.

  16. WillStarr profile image83
    WillStarrposted 10 years ago

    If we need to pay someone to do the SEO work, why do we need HubPages?

    1. wilderness profile image95
      wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      To have a host, and not have to provide your own programming for the site.

  17. jlongrc profile image86
    jlongrcposted 10 years ago

    If you wanted that kind of thing, you'd have many people on here not getting anything published and all kinds of niches getting neglected for profitability reasons.  Some folks would get paid a lot more and a lot sooner, but many of the most enthusiastic Hubbers would be profoundly disappointed and frustrated.  Go over to Yahoo! Contributor Network and see how people are reacting to more and more stringent quality standards and reduced upfront payments as they try to get into Google News and back into the general good graces of Google.

  18. rebekahELLE profile image86
    rebekahELLEposted 10 years ago

    along with content that has to be rated in a way to make advertisers happy, and staff working hard to make it a great place for content writers to publish/continue to publish.

    There are writers and people who write.  I think if someone is a serious writer in a professional capacity,  they need to spread their wings and market themselves.  I think of someone like Shadesbreath who now has taken his talent to book form.

    1. Pearldiver profile image67
      Pearldiverposted 10 years agoin reply to this


      It takes commitment to establish/research, write, publish and market one's own book or ebook... surely the lessons learned here have pointed all of us to the opportunities available and the efforts required to be successful at anything... not just writing!  I don't think some ears appreciate hearing at all, unless it's what they want to hear!  There are 1000s of ways to stand out from the crowd... but once you decide that you want to do so... give up the security and warm fuzzies that you feel within the crowd... because THAT is the test of your commitment to stand out from the crowd and if you can't take that step... then be happy with what is being treated as second best or a stepping stone!  smile

  19. diogenes profile image70
    diogenesposted 10 years ago

    Writing has always been a tough way to make money, much less a living.  If you want your kids to get rich, teach them how to kick a football.   Many, many great writers have said this in many, many ways.  To really make big bucks, you have to write great works of fiction - fiction is what few hubbers attempt and, indeed, this genre doesn't suit the publisher's requirements.  Also, article writers, along with short story writers, are two a penny, (excluding the Steinbecks and their ilk).  Writing is like everything you do in life, the more you put in (read, study, write, write, write), the more you get out.  The sad exception is all the 'still damp behind the ears" celebs (curse the word) who believe at age 22 they are entitled to expect the world to rush and buy their autobiographies, (Rooney, Beckham, Oly Murs, Beyonce. etc.).  What is more disturbing is that these clueless individuals do sell their self-obsessed ruminations.  Star quality and the stardust people hope to be scattered with.
    It may be said that if you build a house, you have done something unique that stands in your name for many generations.  But how much of your 'hot off the press article has been said before, many times and in many ways?  How much of your work is already in cyberspace, on Wikipedia, etc., and said better than your 1000-word attempt?  And if you think your work is original, perhaps even unique, how many people are interested in your subject?
    What a good forum question and will attract a lot more interest.  Bob

    1. Marisa Wright profile image86
      Marisa Wrightposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Very, very true.  I went through a bad patch a year or so ago, when I started to think, "who the hell do I think I am, to think that my writing deserves to be read?".  I looked at my articles and realized that most of them weren't adding much, if any, value, to the world.  I deleted quite a number of them - and probably should delete still more, to be honest. There is so much rubbish on the internet, why am I adding more cr@p?    So I know whereof you speak.

  20. diogenes profile image70
    diogenesposted 10 years ago

    Hi Marissa:  I have failed so far to sort out my own work and eliminate the weeds...more power to ya...Bob

    1. tillsontitan profile image83
      tillsontitanposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      It wouldn't hurt all of us to weed out our hubs but who has the time.

      1. Mark Ewbie profile image82
        Mark Ewbieposted 10 years agoin reply to this

        There is time spent looking at unsuccessful pointless crap thinking "what am I going to do with that" versus time spent using the delete button.

        I deleted another dozen this morning.  No more wondering what to do with them.

        If pages don't get external traffic then as far as I am concerned they are just a distraction.

      2. profile image0
        gogogoposted 10 years agoin reply to this

        I did this a year ago I deleted over 100 of my articles, and with the few remaining I am making almost as much as I did when the ones I deleted were there.  If the traffic is not coming to the hub, it goes

  21. profile image0
    mjkearnposted 10 years ago

    Hi Folks and Austinstar

    There seems to be a lot of this "kick" and "complain" directed at HP at present and personally I don't know if it is justified or not. There are things I love about HP, mainly the community and the majority of real, genuine, nice people.

    There are things that I don't like about HP and I've already had a few heated debacles with them to the extent that they offered to delete my account. I've no gripes with this but at the time it did seem a little harsh but then again it is their site.

    Regardless of earnings, the benefits in my opinion and in my case that HP provide at present vastly outweigh the negatives.

    I am new to all things online and HP was my first attempt at any online publishing. I had looked at many other options even including those PTC sites and the likes as well as other writing platforms but most were for those who already knew what they were doing.

    The one thing that stood out about HP was the Learning Centre and I truly spent 3 days reading every entry in there before publishing my first Hub. One year later I have now started my own blog and truly believe that is solely due to what I have learned at HP.

    I don't profess or consider myself a writer. One thing that I am proud of is the fact that I taught myself to type, something I always wanted to learn and still wonder how on earth my fingers work faster than my brain. I prefer to think of myself as a teacher of sorts as I have many years of experience and knowledge in the world of mechanics and building and if I can impart my knowledge and earn a little, then job well done.

    I view this whole thing as a matter of respect. HP give me my start in an industry that I know sod all about and while I spend a lot of time reading and looking to learn, in real terms I still know sod all about this whole industry. I am thankful to HP for giving me a start and with most things in life you never forget who gave you a start.

    Another fabulous thing about HP is the AP and I have been fortunate enough to have been a part of that. I know nothing about article marketing but believe that if you have something to say that the majority of others want to hear you will get traffic and with traffic will come opportunities to earn.

    The one thing that I like about this whole online thing is that it takes lots and lots of determination and hard work, something I've never been short or afraid of. I mention this because most of the complainers and "want it today" reward types have never worked hard for anything in their lives and will therefore never succeed online.

    I don't regard myself as someone worthy of online attention yet and with a little over 25k views in my year here it tells me that whatever I want to say is not being said in the right way but I believe that in time this will change.

    The biggest lesson that I took away from the AP was regular publishing. If you do something day in and day out you will get better at it. You may never reach the level required but if you are determined and serious about learning then I believe 9 out 10 will get there.

    I don't know if HP should or could pay more but one thing that I have learned is that traffic equals money and with the amount of traffic I've had in my year it could be a case that I owe HP money for providing and maintaining this writing platform.

    I search the net daily for information on ways to improve and have come to a conclusion that I have no way of verifying but I'm looking at 30k monthly visits for any site to be of any reasonable worth. I'd welcome anyone's thoughts on this figure.

    Those who have talent and have been here longer may have genuine reasons to feel aggrieved with HP, but for my part and as a newbie, HP is still a fantastic platform, a place to learn and definitely a place to grow.

    Getting paid a little to learn or not getting charged a fortune to learn, is a very good deal in my book.

    So all I can say is thanks HP.


  22. Austinstar profile image85
    Austinstarposted 10 years ago

    Well, I knew this would open up a can of worms. Honestly, all I want to do is write. Currently, HP is the best place I have found to do this.
    The fact is that I can make more money in a lab in one day than I can with over 300 hubs (even hubs with good traffic).
    I agree that HP is doing a fantastic job. Writers write, but they often whine a lot. We need our egos stroked.

    1. Marisa Wright profile image86
      Marisa Wrightposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      I see you're doing the Apprenticeship so I'm surprised you started this thread - hasn't the apprenticeship given you some insight into how challenging it is to get traffic to an article?

      As Diogenes says, the big problem with writing nowadays is that you aren't just competing with today's newspapers and this week's magazines - you're competing with the millions and millions and millions of articles already published online.

      A very successful Hubber once said to me that if you want to make a living wage online with your writing, it's 10% about writing and 90% research, administration, marketing and networking.  I think that's probably even more true these days than it was then!

  23. diogenes profile image70
    diogenesposted 10 years ago

    Many writing on HP forget the old saw about the daily newspaper, which was, "black and white and red all over."  And the many others who say yesterday's paper is only good to wrap fish and chips or line the bird cage.  What is wrong with HP and the others is that these articles are kept at all!  I wrote 1,000's of daily columns and articles for several papers over the years...they were only good for one day!  People read them and forgot them as the paper went in the trash.  It's hardly surprising they don't have many lookers from Internet users and, ipso facto, few hits on Google, etc., ads.  There are exceptions, such as the DIY and other self help articles, but even they have a swift sell by date as new stuff comes on the market.  Some of the poetry is excellent, but few readers get to it or are literate enough to feel the author's emotion. 
    And I will add a remark made to me by my chief editor when I wrote for the News in Mexico over five years.  "...don't complain, Bob, most article writers are two a penny and have no clout."  I found she was right and learned to have a life away from the job and any creativeness it cost me.   Bob

  24. WillStarr profile image83
    WillStarrposted 10 years ago

    I understand that HubPages is a host, but I thought that HubPages itself was a big draw, and if your Hubs were rated high quality and featured, you'd get a lot of traffic. Almost all of my Hubs were rated high quality and were featured, but almost all the traffic I got was from those who already follow me.

    There are lots of hosts, so if you are responsible for generating your own traffic, why is HubPages better than they are?

    In any case, HubPages is not a great place for fiction writers.

    1. Marisa Wright profile image86
      Marisa Wrightposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Good question.  HubPages is not a host, it's a platform for revenue-sharing.  A hosting company merely provides space on a server for your website or blog to sit on: you have to create the entire website yourself before you even start writing. They provide technical support but no other guidance.  A host doesn't provide any kind of community.

      HubPages provides a lot besides just space on their server.  They have a huge learning center with lots of advice on how to write online, they do marketing to raise the visibility of the site as a whole, they have an Apprenticeship program, and they have a great community where you can network with other writers.  So there is value in writing on HubPages as opposed to on a host, especially if you're not technically minded.

      However, the idea that "HubPages itself was a big draw, and if your Hubs were rated high quality and featured, you'd get a lot of traffic" is outdated.

      Before the Great Panda Disaster of 2011, that was certainly true.  Google regarded HubPages as a "trusted site", so it would send traffic to Hubs just because they were Hubs.  Then Google decided that all revenue-sharing sites were "content farms" and the opposite became true.  The situation now is somewhere in the middle:  I know several people who have moved their Hubs to their own sites, and find they're doing much better.  I know others who have started their own blogs and find they're doing worse than on HubPages.

      However, the bottom line is this:  whether on a blog or a website or on a rev-sharing site like HubPages, articles will only get traffic if there are people searching for them. 

      Ask yourself, "what would people have to type into Google to find my Hubs?  How likely is it that anyone will do that?"

      That's why fiction does so badly, because no one is searching for "fiction by WillStarr" if you're an unknown writer.

      1. WryLilt profile image89
        WryLiltposted 10 years agoin reply to this


  25. Gordon Hamilton profile image95
    Gordon Hamiltonposted 10 years ago

    Hi, all

    I started off by reading all the posts on this thread but I'm afraid I sort of skimmed some of the longer ones as the thread went on - so apologies for that and any points I may have missed...

    I'm not passing judgement in any way or criticising the natural and justified concerns of the community. I just want to share one very pertinent fact with you: my experience...

    I have been on Hub Pages for nearly six years. Writing online is my day job - it's no longer a hobby. If I didn't believe in Hub Pages, the abilities of its wonderful staff to do their jobs and promote the writings we Hubbers produce to the very best of their abilities, I quite simply wouldn't be here.

    OK - Hub Pages is not my main income source but I think it justifies my time, the opportunities and facilities are incredible and the staff support is second to none.

    While I understand that many people are new to Hub Pages and require guidance, please seek it from those with experience and knowledge before criticising unfairly and unjustifiably. (I don't mean seek it from me - I mean the wider community smile )

    It's a sad cliche for newbies but very true - success in online writing really does take time...

    Best wishes, all...

  26. jericho911 profile image83
    jericho911posted 10 years ago

    i worked for walmart for many years in quality assurance.  Phdast is totally right about volume. In fact, some items, such as bleach and toilet paper is sold at cost or a small loss just to get more customers in the door to buy other items.  I don't know what hubpages piece of the pie happens to be, whether it's 18% or not.  I continue writing on here hoping that over time, some money wil show as I'm self-employed and could always use a little bill money showing up each month.

    1. Gordon Hamilton profile image95
      Gordon Hamiltonposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Jericho911 - I worked for a major British bank for almosty twenty years, including being part of the integration team with another bank for a year in 2003. I knew what the cut of the pie was then as I do now. Hub Pages learning centre will tell you that HP take 40% of the page impression revenues, while you get 60%. You can find the link at the bottom of any page on HP.. It's really worth reading and will hopefully put your mind at rest, Good luck smile

  27. WillStarr profile image83
    WillStarrposted 10 years ago

    'That's why fiction does so badly, because no one is searching for "fiction by WillStarr" if you're an unknown writer.'

    Which is exactly why I came to HubPages, where totally unknown writers can, if the work is of good quality, be featured and promoted. That's the same reason nonfiction writers come here.

    Fiction does poorly because its a bad platform for SEO.

    1. phdast7 profile image82
      phdast7posted 10 years agoin reply to this

      You are absolutely correct.   Serious history is an uphill battle as well, but I am grateful for the platform.

    2. wilderness profile image95
      wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      If no one is searching for "fiction by Will Starr" (and no disagreement there) then what does it matter if it is featured or not?  It is still available and all the backlinks still work.  You just won't get any SE traffic; traffic that, without searchers,  that you never did get anyway.

    3. Marisa Wright profile image86
      Marisa Wrightposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Then you misunderstood what HubPages is about. 

      "Featuring" on HubPages means nothing.  And although HubPages does promote the site, it has never promoted individual authors (except in newsletters, which only reach other Hubbers).  The reason Hubbers did well in the past was purely because Google liked the site at one time. 

      Fiction did poorly on HubPages even when the site was at its most popular.  I've never seen a fiction writer do well in my five years here, unless they were also writing non-fiction and were very canny at promotion.

      As Wilderness says, since you're only likely to get visitors from within HubPages anyway, Featured or Not Featured is unimportant to you.  Featured just means your Hubs can be found through search engines but because they're not going to be found through search engines anyway, it's irrelevant.  Just set your profile to display your unFeatured Hubs as well.


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