If it is all about quality...

1. 90

   Paragliderposted 11 years ago

   Physician, heal yourself...
   
   "We thought that you would like to know that X____x, a Hubber who you are following, just created etc..."
   
   'a Hubber whom you are following' is grammatically correct but could be considered stilted.
   'a Hubber that you are following' is also grammatically correct, but not preferred, stylistically.
   'a Hubber you are following' is grammatically correct, concise and elegant.
   
   'a Hubber who you are following' is a red pen job.
   
   I bring this to your attention, HubPages, only because you have set yourselves up as arbitrators on Quality. And to see if you care

   report
   1. 81

      HollieTposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I would probably have opted for a. I need to heed my own advice, my writing requires work.

      report
      1. 82

         Rafiniposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         I would have chosen "C" myself....

         report
   2. 81

      Marcy Goodfleischposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      LOL!  You are so right!  I've been saved from the pain of reading these messages, because I opted out of getting the email alerts.  I agree - HP might to edit a few things.

      report
   3. 58

      Mark Knowlesposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      It is not about quality. It is about gaming the system. Sadly - that is hard to do nowadays. For all of us.

      report
2. 83

   WriteAngledposted 11 years ago

   ".... XXX, whom you follow.... "
   
   "Hubber" is totally redundant.

   report
   1. 90

      Paragliderposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      True, and so is the first 'that':
      
      We thought (that) you would like to know...

      report
   2. 92

      Sue Adamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      a hubber whom you follow = wrong
      
      the hubber Charlemagne whose hubs you follow = correct

      report
3. 83

   WriteAngledposted 11 years ago

   It depends whether you follow the person or his/her hubs.
   
   Personally, I follow a person. I do not necessarily choose to read all the hubs produced by that person.
   
   Nevertheless, if you really want to follow hubs it would be:
   Charlemagne, whose hubs you follow.

   report
   1. 93

      Rochelle Frankposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I had to check-- yes there are two hubbers named Charlemagne (one with a lower case c), but neither have any hubs posted.

      report
4. 92

   Sue Adamsposted 11 years ago

   I used Charlemagne as a fictitious username.  I didn't even know we had any real Charlemagne/charlemagne usernames registered.
   ______________
   
   Now allow me to be really pedantic but grammatically correct. The OP's point is valid, the original message (1) is indeed a red pen job:
   
   1. "We thought that you would like to know that X____x, a Hubber who you are following, just created etc..." is bad grammar.
   
   Take out the "who" word to improve the grammar of that message so it reads:
   
   2. "We thought that you would like to know that X____x, a Hubber you are following, just created etc..."
   if we are following the hubber or
   
   3. "We thought that you would like to know that X____x, a Hubber whose hubs you follow, just created etc..."
   if we are following their hubs.
   
   Or make it even more simple, change it to:
   
   4. "We thought that you would like to know that X____x, just created etc..."
   
   WriteAngled is right, we all know that the message is about hubbers we follow.
   
   Which do you prefer 2, 3, or 4?
   ______________________
   
   The new style tips are great.  I am having fun updating all my Hubs to attain over 1250 words and still say what I have to say in as few words as possible.
   
   Thank you HP for teaching us to improve as writers.

   report
5. 95

   LongTimeMotherposted 11 years ago

   On the subject of quality, this seems an ideal thread to raise a question about today's HOTD. I don't want to embarrass the author, but it seems pointless to discuss 'hypotheticals' when there is a classic example unfolding before us today.
   
   I am wondering who nominates, who assesses and who chooses the Hub of the Day.  I suggest with respect that the person responsible for awarding HOTD to 'The Ultimate Guide to High School Dating' has done little to promote HP as a quality site.
   
   I don't object to the title or the content and I think it is great to encourage young writers, but that hub is not worthy of being displayed over and above all others. Surely HP should have insisted on editing to make basic changes that would make it more effective.
   
   For instance, somebody could have pointed out that the second paragraph is not a good start for an ultimate guide to high school dating. The author writes: "My love life in high school was less the spectacular. I actually only kind of had a "boyfriend" for three weeks who I never even kissed or went out anywhere with, and the whole thing was just awkward and horrible."
   
   I believe the expression should read "less than spectacular" but even if it was correct I believe the entire point should be deleted. We are supposed to be encouraging visitors to read to the end. It is not good writing when confidence in the author's authority is shaken from the start. I shudder at the thought of other writers following this lead.
   
   Even more obvious and alarming is the use of bold text where new text capsules would do the job - and could helpfully demonstrate the effectiveness of using capsule titles to separate content.  I'd have suggested adding a few short paragraphs of text after the existing capsule headings, and then creating new text capsules using the current bold sentences as new headings.
   
   Plus only one of the six images has a caption.  Surely the author could have been encouraged to set a better example if the hub was to promoted as Hub of the Day.
   
   This thread is supposed to be monitored by HP staff. I sincerely hope someone reads it and responds. Why are you promoting a Hub of the Day that fails to exemplify the standards set by HP?
   
   This is not the first time. I sincerely hope it is the last. You will promote a poor example of a hub for the next 24 hours and then express disappointment when other writers follow its format in the future.
   
   Perhaps what saddens me the most is the fact that the author is one of your apprentices. I'd have hoped an apprenticeship would produce a better standard of work before being awarded.
   
   How do I nominate hubs for HOTD? I've read lots of excellent hubs worthy of promoting. I'll help you out with a few suggestions! Heck. If you don't have enough staff to edit the potential award-winning hubs, put me on your payroll. I'll even edit them for you.
   
   Today's example is not doing any of us any favours. I'm sorry for the author because she didn't choose to promote her own hub, and I'm sorry if I cause her embarrassment. But somebody needs to draw staff's attention to their negligence.

   report
   1. 93

      EricDockettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Nice. 
      
      Well, at least any pride the writer feels after realizing she got HOTD will be quickly squashed when she reads your post.

      report
      1. 95

         LongTimeMotherposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         I thought about that, Eric. That's why I buried my comment here. She hasn't been active on HP for 11 days and will probably not spot it, but I did notice someone took a shot at it in another place earlier.
         
         I want staff to notice it because a logical place for new writers to look for good examples is the HOTD.It would be nice if it was the best - or among the best - of the available hubs, wouldn't it?
         
         Maybe I'm just expecting too much ... hmmm.

         report
         1. 93

            EricDockettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Maybe a message to HP staff would have been more appropriate.  Whether you are right or wrong in your assessment of her Hub and writing skills, it's just not cool to call out another Hubber like that.

            report
         2. 95

            LongTimeMotherposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Now that's a good point. It is near midnight here and had it been daylight I'd have thought of that myself.
            I notice you put an encouraging comment worded to commend the content ... and I also think the subject matter and content is a good choice. It is really the quality of the writing itself in a hub that is meant to be 'the best of the best' that concerns me.
            
            Can't see an option to delete my earlier post. I trust the staff will delete it if I'm considered too harsh. I do believe however that the concept of HOTD choice is worth discussion "If it is all about quality ..." as suggested in the title of this thread.
            
            Perhaps I'm the only one who thinks so.

            report
            1. 93

               EricDockettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               You're not the only one who thinks quality is important.  I think it's important.  I can't imagine there are many things more important to HP management.  However, I don't agree that it is the only important thing.
               
               Another important thing is for good new writers to come here and have a chance to grow and succeed.  Sometimes I'm concerned that any newbie who comes to these forums will get the idea that they have no chance whatsoever to do well, and that HP must really be as mean, terrible and stupid as everyone is posting. 
               
               I wonder how many people who would otherwise have made great contributions to this site have been scared away by comments in these forums.  And it would be a shame if writers were terrified of getting Hub of the Day for fear of being so harshly criticized.  For someone who is on the cusp of quitting it could mean the difference between giving up and sticking it out and becoming a solid member of the community here.  Even if they are making mistakes now, that writer could go on to create dozens of quality Hubs in the future. Or, they could feel like it's all hopeless and quit.
               
               Again, I'm not saying you are wrong and you are 100% entitled to your opinion, but it sure would be nice if the forums were a place where there was less complaining and new writers could actually feel encouraged.
               
               Know what I mean?

               report
            2. 95

               LongTimeMotherposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               There are at least 100 new writers here who have received my encouragement.
               
               I appreciate what you are saying Eric but spare a concerned thought for the many hubbers who work extremely hard to meet the quality standards met by HP and then regularly see less perfect hubs than their own awarded HOTD.  I suspect for them there's a good chance they'll give up.
               
               It is those writers who struggle to do the right thing without acknowledgement or reward who I'd hate to lose from the HP community. Every time they log out they are faced with encouragement to read HOTD. What a shame it is not always a good one.

               report
         3. 95

            LongTimeMotherposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            P.S. I'm also left wondering if it is actually 'inappropriate' to question writing style on HP forums. This is a site for writers. As a professional writer, it is absolutely normal to have your work discussed like this. As soon as you write and publish, it happens. Are we writers, or not?

            report
            1. 88

               LCDWriterposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               I honestly don't read the HOTD any more after feeling what LTM expressed in her posts.  I don't necessarily write anything HOTD worthy; however, I've seen HOTD where basic formatting was not even put into place (such as long lists that would have been MUCH better in a table, lack of paragraphs, lack of photo attribution).   I try very hard to make sure I follow all those rules and use the formatting and the tables only to see it being ignored in HOTD.
               
               I too see some beautiful, fantastic hubs come through my newsfeed and yet these writers never seem to get noticed. 
               
               Again, I am not commenting on the current HOTD because I haven't read it and won't just because it doesn't actually seem to teach me anything about how to make a better hub.
               
               Grammar mistakes are easy to make and sometimes hard to spot in our own writing.  I try to go back and randomly re-read and I still find stuff.  But I agree that if a hub will be the HOTD, the author should be contacted ahead of time so they could comb over it for any errors that escaped their attention.
               
               I'm riding out the traffic dip for now and have several ideas in cue, waiting to implement them.  I don't have plans to go anywhere else at the moment as I like the idea behind HP---just the implementation seems a bit off at times----but I still think there is something to what they are trying to do.
               
               I don't think you are off in your criticism LTM and I think you are very careful with it.  HP can only go up in quality if we are all willing to push it there.

               report
               1. 95

                  LongTimeMotherposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Thanks LCDWriter. I was careful to stress that I don't blame the writer.

                  report
6. 92

   Sue Adamsposted 11 years ago

   I started a new thread in "New HubPages Feature Suggestions" entitled
   
   Readers Vote for Hub of the Day
   
   
   
   http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/115629
   
   Let me know what you think.

   report
   1. 89

      Will Apseposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Pointless popularity contest. Just learn to live with envy.

      report