Why am I being punished for producing professional looking hubs?

1. 94

   OldRosesposted 9 years ago

   I looked at my hub scores today and cried.  They have been falling steadily for two weeks from 70's & 80's to 60's and 70's with one 59.  Today, one of my hubs has fallen to a 50.  HP is sending me mixed signals.  I am told to write in a niche that I am passionate about with the aim of being an authority in that niche.  I looked at my competition and modelled my hubs after them:  less than 1000 words, 1 to 3 photos (some have only illustrations) with text laid out in logical sections titled to make information easy to find.  And I am being punished by HP because I have no polls, quizzes, or videos and my hubs are way less than their minimum 1250 words.  To find articles in my niche (gardening) that match that criteria, you have to go 5 to 6 pages into a Google search.  All of those articles are written rank amateurs with little or no gardening knowledge.  Professional gardeners do not have any of the HP required "bells and whistles".  Why am I not rewarded for a professional layout as well as professional content?  Why can't HP be more flexible in their requirements?  Why don't they realize that not all areas of knowledge are presented in the same formats?  I am becoming very, very discouraged.

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      LuisEGonzalezposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Relax, you are not a bad writer. If your hub scores are falling it may be due to Google's algorithm changes. Most hubs start to do really good after a couple of years. My best hubs have fallen several notches and others which were not of a high score are now on top. Just write as well as you do a let things fall where they may.

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         Sed-meposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         That was nice Luis. I hope she will be encouraged.

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            Cardisaposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            OMG! I am so happy to see you! Welcome to Hubpages Sed-Me...lol, love the name! I missed you

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      2. 94

         OldRosesposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         Luis, Google has nothing to do with it.  My traffic has increased, not decreased so according to HP guidelines, my hub scores should be rising, not falling.  It can only be HP's ridiculous requirements that are dragging down my scores.

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            psycheskinnerposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            There has been a change recently that caused hub scores to go up for some people and down for others.  Despite several forums threads discussing the matter we basically never found out why.  I would not assume it is the multimedia requirement as it did not seem to correlate with that at all.

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               RockyMountainMomposted 9 years agoin reply to this

               I followed the forums on this the first several days after the change---I was visiting family and very distraught to see everything tank so fast.  I'm im my third month now at hubpages, roughly.
               
               I'm getting used to my lower scores across the board (including editor's choice, hub of the day, and rising star articles---as others have experienced, too).  They are continuing to fall.
               
               I tried making photos all full width, along with others that suggested and tried it.  No notable change.
               
               One thing I'm sensing today, having just returned home from camping, is that hubs with lots of pictures seem to be penalized (maybe?).  I checked this last week by removing pictures from a hub that had a section of photos in the "thumbnail" format.  It rose a tiny bit.  Then may haven fallen again, I don't remember for sure. 
               
               I added the photos back in before I went camping this weekend, and have returned to find it is now my lowest scoring hub.  I may or may not test this theory further.
               
               I'm used to the lower scores now, but am type A enough to miss what they were before (pretty darn good, compared to now). 
               
               I'm discouraged to see them still steadily falling, without knowing a reason after three or four weeks.

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                  Marisa Wrightposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                  No, Hubs with lots of pictures are not penalised.  If you've got lots of photos and hardly any text, then it's the lack of text that's causing the problem, not the number of photos.

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                     RockyMountainMomposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                     Lots of text with lots of pictures in those instances.  2400+ words or so, original & relevant photos....
                     
                     Still sorting it out, since all the boxes are checked.  Content, typos, etc. seem more likely....
                     
                     Here's my lowest scoring now, having put the pictures back in.  So quality of photos, perhaps (if it is photo related in some way).
                     
                     http://rockymountainmom.hubpages.com/hu … Rounds-3-4

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                  2. 67

                     RockyMountainMomposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                     In keeping with the scattered-ness theme of my third to last post (stating that I would figure out chronological versus threaded view), thank you.  I got semi-distracted, but because I very much prefer chronological (leading to me finding your answers to my answers, which I may not have otherwise).  I think this will help my ability to read before asking 'stuff', but we'll see.  Thank you either way.

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            Barbara Kayposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            I just checked my hubs and several that have 200-300 views this month are only ranked in the 60s. I am wondering about this too, but I'm not going to let it bother me. Seeing that it doesn't affect my earnings and doesn't really have anything to do with how good of a writer I am, who cares?
            
            Maybe more photos would help, but I don't have any more available for these hubs right now. Adding more content might help too.

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               RockyMountainMomposted 9 years agoin reply to this

               Removing photos helped one or two of my hubs.  Putting them back into one a few days ago seems to have made that one fall faster.  Not positive---anecdotal observation with a sample size of one is not hugely compelling, but interesting.

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            TIMETRAVELER2posted 9 years agoin reply to this

            Old Roses:
            
            A few weeks back HP "tweaked" the way it does hub scores and everybody's scores dropped...some significantly.
            
            If it makes you feel any better, hub scores have absolutely no bearing on traffic or anything else.  They are simply a way for the HP team  to let you know they think you could make some improvements.
            
            I would ignore them and move on.  If you are getting traffic and making money, that is all that matters.

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               LongTimeMotherposted 9 years agoin reply to this

               That's true. Even hubs considered worthy of EC and HOTD took a battering. Seems completely illogical, but it will be interesting to see what the future brings.

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                  Jean Bakulaposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                  Hi LTM,
                  Yes, I guess we will have to wait and see how it all shakes out.
                  
                  I noticed that on my account page, a slew of my hubs have 100 scores. My hubber score is 95, and it normally hovers a little higher than that. But I know it doesn't mean much. My content on here is pretty old, I just recently decided to write here again, there aren't a lot of places to write that I like anymore, and here is the only place I ever got paid. So it's not really worth it to write anywhere else, though I have content in other places.
                  
                  Oh, I did get paid on Bubblews until this month, but have decided to forget them, it's too tacky.

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               2. 85

                  Marisa Wrightposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                  It's not illogical, I don't think.   I took a look at my Hubs, and there's a very strong correlation between a Hub's score and the number of ticks it has in the "stellar Hub" guidelines in the top right hand corner.  So I think HP has decided to use HubScore primarily as a way to encourage us to tick more of those boxes.

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                  1. 91

                     Jean Bakulaposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                     Hi Marisa,
                     I see you are on this forum now, so I have a question. I want to post a hub in my usual niche, but although it's about people's traits in that area, it's from a group of experimental fiction pieces I wrote. When I am beginning to post the hub, the Fiction catagory doesn't come up. What should I do?

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                        Marisa Wrightposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                        It's under Books, Literature and Writing - Commercial and Creative Writing - Creative Writing - Short Stories
                        
                        At least, that's where I put mine!

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                     RockyMountainMomposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                     I have all ticks on all hubs.....so I was going to say 'that's not it' in my case (since they are all still falling). But perhaps they would be even lower if that weren't the case, so this sounds logical to me.

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   2. 85

      Marisa Wrightposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      You need to learn to ignore HubScores.  They are irrelevant and have no impact on the ability of your Hubs to make money.   The only thing to worry about is whether your Hubs are Featured or not (if they're not Featured, they're invisible to Google).
      
      Part of the score is based on the Stellar Hub guidelines now - they weren't in the past.  So that's why you're seeing the change.  It's HubPages way of pushing you to conform with what they believe is best practice.  I'm not going to get into whether they're right or wrong - you have every right to disagree with them if you want.  However you'll have to live with low scores. Just get over the blow to your ego and ignore them. I do.

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         OldRosesposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         Thank you, Marisa.  As long as my abysmal hub scores don't affect my hubs' money making potential, I'll take your advice and ignore them.  Despite their low scores, they are all featured.

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            Craftypicksposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            I have a garden niche too, but from past experience (a lot of it) it's seasonal. We are entering Fall when the flowers die off and so does gardening. You will pick up again. I keep a Winter and Summer Niche. I write for the winter during the summer and the summer for the winter so I am well ahead of the traffic. Just a thought that may have you feeling less discouraged.

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               OldRosesposted 9 years agoin reply to this

               I started writing more seasonal gardening hubs last year and adding to them this year.  It has made a big difference in my traffic.  It no longer falls off a cliff at the end of the summer.

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      Annie Wrightposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Hello,
      
      I don't why your scores are going down. Myself sometimes I write close to two thousand words, put in a few more pictures, tables and add a poll. Simply put I write because it is a favorite hobby of mine, and really doesn't bother me if I don't make any money, tired of messing with Google Ad Sense. The type of articles I write about I would have to travel the world to capture those pictures of my own. Don't stress about the score just enjoy teaching others about gardening, and yes sometimes you must go through a lot of information to find what you need. Try this might be a little quicker, check online libraries for information, or maybe look to order free magazines on the topic. In the library the librarian can give suggestions to help guild you in the right direction. I also go to a local library to locate information. Online you can copy a part or save or even print out what you need. Just be sure to give the proper credit using the APA format. Need any help with the APA format I'll be more than happy to help you.
      Annie

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      Richard-Bivinsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      This is your problem right here.  You modeled your hubs on content that already exists.  You need to make your hubs stand out above the competition.  HP wants hubs that engage readers.  The "bells and whistles" you mention are exactly the types of elements that help with engagement. 
      
      Clearly, you know your subject but knowing your subject is half the battle.  You need to know the people searching for your subject and meet what they are expecting from an article.  And that can be determined from engaging potential readers on other social networks (Pinterest, G+, Facebook, Twitter, etc.)
      
      But also, you don't need to take hub scores as a personal judgement on your knowledge.  Hub scores are a measurement of many things and derived from a proprietary algorithm.  They are not shown to the public, they are there for you to see where improvements can be made.

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         OldRosesposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         I agree with you but I disagree with HP's definition of a stellar hub.  To me, they look like they were put together by a 12 year old.  What's next?  Glitter and stickers?  All of the bells and whistles make them nearly impossible to read, there are too many interruptions in the content for things that add nothing to the information.  The minimum word requirement is a real content killer.  To meet the required word count, many writers resort to adding filler and/or endless repetition.  Again, this makes the hubs difficult to read and quite frankly, uninteresting.  I no long read most hubs, I just skim.

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            Millionaire Tipsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            The key is to use the extra words to provide additional information.  What else does the reader need to know?  How can I make sure they have everything they need in my article, so they don't have to go elsewhere to get the rest of the info.  For gardening hubs, I would want to know what the plant looks like when first planted, what it looks like when it is fully mature, how big is it going to get, when I should plant it, how far into the ground should I plant it, what should I do if we have a sudden frost, when can I harvest, how can I tell when it is ready to harvest, how to prevent bugs, what the common issues are with this plant, how to avoid these issues, how to deal with them since I wasn't able to avoid them, what plants work well with this plant, history, medicinal uses, vitamin content, factoids, and on and on. I don't know how you can give me all that info in just a few words.  I should learn something from coming to your hub, even if I consider myself an expert on the subject.

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               OldRosesposted 9 years agoin reply to this

               I understand and appreciate what you are saying but I don't need thousands of words to relay information.  My hubs are very specific because most gardeners are looking for specific information.  If they want general information, they will go to Wikipedia.

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            TIMETRAVELER2posted 9 years agoin reply to this

            Old Roses:
            
            Whether you agree or disagree with the way HP does things here, the bottom line is that this is a business and it is their business to run as they see fit.
            
            You do not have to follow their guidelines or even like them and you can even write to them and make suggestions, comments or complaints.
            
            They have their reasons for doing things as they do, and all of us have to understand their position, even though we do not agree with it.
            
            It's like the old saying that goes "The boss may not always be right, but he is always the boss".

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            RockyMountainMomposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            I agree with you on length.  I tend to be pretty verbose, so in general it's not hard for me to go well over 1,000 words.   But that's (obviously) not always better.  And I also tend to skim hubs, because they tend to be long.  So I'd be gaining some better practice through brevity, I'll just have to be ready to be docked for it if I practice here.

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               Marisa Wrightposted 9 years agoin reply to this

               As I think I posted on this thread already, the length is not to please readers, it's to attract Google.   You can't get real readers without attracting Google, so that's important.
               
               You can make 1,000 words perfectly readable by using headings and sub-headings generously, and adding a table of contents (I do wish HubPages would provide a capsule for that!). 
               
               However, I wouldn't be padding out a Hub to make the grade - the bottom line is, I think, that if a subject doesn't lend itself to writing 1,000 words then maybe it's not a suitable subject for a Hub.

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                  RockyMountainMomposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                  I don't disagree with your last point there in the least---giving a fairly natural explanation and out for my verbose-ness in my hubs (I don't pad because I am not as brief as I should be a lot of the time, but don't need to because I am picking hub-length-appropriate topics, for the most part).
                  
                  As for readability, I agree with the post I was commenting on that the length is unnecessary in some hubs and causes me to skim a lot of hubs rather than read.  Which is not inconsistent with your point that headings and other tools create better readability, or that google likes it better. 
                  
                  Google's liking of length explains it being a box to check in the stellar hubs category, and explains why it's there, but circles back round to the conceptual/existential disjunct between writing for google versus good writing, and so forth and around and back again.

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                  RockyMountainMomposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                  P.S.  I certainly can't argue with or speak to any advice pertaining to gaining "real readers" yet.  Except for quality, though, is my lengthy disclaimer here--I am followed by and following some pretty amazing writers on hubpages so far, so until I get the quantity part going over time (I hope, as we all hope) I do want to throw in that I'm quite happy with the quality aspect in the mean time---but have no meaningful contributions on doing this wright yet.
                  
                  Also, the table of contents capsule is a fabulous idea.

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      Everyday Miraclesposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      I have historically attempted to continue using Hubpages' Flagship format. The program is no longer active, but the advice on hub quality continues to be solid.
      
      Hubpages and Google measure how long somebody stays on your hub to read its content, so anything that causes the user to engage with your hub (videos that they watch, polls they answer, and comments they leave) causes the reader to remain on the page for longer, which may boost your visibility in Google and within Hubpages.
      
      I can't speak for other successful writers in your niche, but this is working pretty well for me right now.

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      Lintang Sunuposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      I am sorry to hear that. I am totally new to this HP. I registered here several hours ago, and without taking a look at others' hubs, I write my own very first hub. And you know, it was not approved after being submitted for about 2 hours. I was shocked, why? Still, after reading comprehensively about the standard of the hub, I then understood why it was not approved.
      
      Then, I tried to visit others' hubs and I was surprised to know such professional hubs, like yours perhaps. Keep spirit, Marissa.

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   gardener denposted 9 years ago

   Hi OldRoses
   I have the same problem as you? But my hub score is lower than your. Its now at 57. I don't know why? I try to write the best articles like you do. But I think gardening is a low scoring subject.To the hubpages people who are at the head they don't care much about what we write about. Gardening is not a high scoring number? I don't think it is to them. Are you still making money with your hubs? Don't give up my score went down to 43 but its now going back up. So keep writing about what you love to write about and that is gardening. Gardener Den.

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      OldRosesposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      While I am sorry to hear someone else is suffering as I do, it does make me feel better that I am not alone.  Thank you for your thoughtful reply,

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   LindaSmith1posted 9 years ago

   Here is info about hubber scores.  http://hubpages.com/learningcenter/hubs … bber-score

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   1. 94

      OldRosesposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Thank you, but I am not concerned with my Hubber score.  It's the inexplicable reduction in my Hub Scores that concerns me.  Hubs that were scoring over 80 literally for years, now are scored at 63 or 64.  The hub that fell to 50 this morning, was originally scored at 69.  Why it suddenly fell 20 points is a mystery.

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4. 90

   Ilonagardenposted 9 years ago

   I do think gardening is a tough niche. That said, I think that following the recommended format in the particular community one writes within is very important.
   
   If by professional you mean some of the well known garden bloggers or writers that have many followers on social media etc, you cannot expect to compete with similar style, layout or information. The competition is just too stiff.
   
   Why not give the Hub recommendations a try and conform or excel in depth and picture quality? l think you will be pleasantly surprised at the results.

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      OldRosesposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Thank you, Ilona but I don't feel that HP's guidelines are appropriate for my hubs.  I think that it is high time that The Powers That Be at HP take a long, hard look at their requirements and start allowing some leeway.  As I stated in my original post, their guidelines are not appropriate for all types of hubs.

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         Ilonagardenposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         Please understand I am only trying to help. I have written in the garden niche for many years, and have struggled in the past few to keep pace with a burgeoning garden writing group, through blogging, a website, and later on Squidoo. I have also written some things here at Hubpages.
         
         I like many of your hubs, but I have to say some of them are so short and with only one photo and that will not compete online today. If Hubpages rely on Google searches and traffic to rank, that type of garden page will sink.
         
         I know I am sticking my neck out and risking making you and others upset, and I really don't want to do that. Yet, I feel like I would do you a disservice if I said nothing. I have been working my backside off ( maybe on, with the weight gain!) trying to stay afloat with my garden writing, and I am not bad- with many contacts in the field since I was one of the very early garden bloggers. I joined Squidoo as one way to try to widen my niche and reach ( and then got caught up in the fun, what can I say?)
         
         I sincerely hope you will reconsider and build in depth Hubs, because I feel you know your stuff. Okay... I will go away now.

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            OldRosesposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            Oh, I am not upset at all.  I always appreciate constructive criticism.  I happen to agree with you that some of my hubs are too brief.  I need to re-work them.  Right now, I am concentrating on adding content.  Last year I moved a lot of content to a website that is devoted to herbs.
            
            I know that the garden niche is a tough one.  I don't expect to become an authority overnight.  It takes time and work but I feel that HP is being too rigid.  Their guidelines should just be guidelines and not requirements set in stone.  If my lack of polls, quizzes and videos are detrimental to my success, that will show up in my traffic.  So far my traffic has been rising.  I read here on the forums that it takes hubs 3 to 6 months to be noticed by Google.  In my case, Google sends me traffic within two weeks of my hubs being published.  I'm obviously doing something right according to Google but according to HP I am a dismal failure who doesn't even deserve a passing grade.  That is why I am appealing to HP to get these ridiculous requirements changed.

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               relacheposted 9 years agoin reply to this

               I don't know which forums you have been reading but authors who publish regularly find they get Google traffic in hours of a new publication.

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            ChristinSposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            
            
            I have to say, I really agree with you here and I hope the OP will take your very sound advice to heart.

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   relacheposted 9 years ago

   If I'm understanding the original post correctly, you are saying that you feel that the formatting and styles which HubPages developed from studying hundreds of thousand of Hubs and seeing what Google liked best isn't working for you, so you are suggesting that they should change their entire site instead of just you changing, even though you're the one for whom their guidelines aren't working, because you aren't actually following them and are kind of doing the opposite.
   
   Did I understand you correctly?

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      OldRosesposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Relache, I always love your answers on the forums.  No, in this case, I am just asking HP to lighten up, stop being so rigid.  I work in IT and read a lot of professional content online.  Almost none of those pages would pass HP's infamous QAP.  I'd love to know what exactly they were looking at to come up with their requirements.  The only online pages that I've seen that would pass the HP QAP are posted by people who know very little about online content and formatting. 
      
      I don't comment on a lot of hubs because they are too difficult to read.  They are visually too "busy".  The silly sidebars with polls and quizzes are distracting.  In most cases, the videos are totally unnecessary.  The repetition in the text so that the Hubbers can meet HP's word count is abysmal so I end up skimming rather than reading.  It's really too bad because there are some fine writers here.  Unfortunately, their writing is suffering thanks to HP's rigidity.

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   relacheposted 9 years ago

   OldRoses, I just took at look at your garden Hubs, and I innately understood why they are doing what you hoped here.
   
   How ironic, especially since I fit your description of someone who must know very little about online content or formatting to a T.

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   DzyMsLizzyposted 9 years ago

   I agree that there seem to be mixed messages sent.
   
   Every time someone starts a thread about low hub scores, they are reassured, told not to worry, that it isn't that important, etc., etc.
   
   However, this quote is taken directly from the above-referenced article in the learning center (boldface emphases are mine):
   "Once you start Hubbing you'll notice that there are two very important scores that you should be aware of. These are HubScore and Hubber Score."
   
   If they are so 'unimportant,' and 'not to worry about,' then why this direct contradiction in the learning center article discussing said scores?
   I.e., if they are "not important," then why do they even exist??Something smells fishy....

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      Marisa Wrightposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Not really.    With the recent changes, HubScore reflects both the score given by QAP and the requirements for a "stellar Hub", as well as a few other components. 
      
      It's HubPages' way of putting pressure on you to conform with what they see as best practice.   However it's imperfect, because as you know, not every aspect of a "stellar Hub" makes sense for every topic.

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      OldRosesposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Thank you so much for bringing that up!  I joined HP 7 years ago and then left for personal reasons.  When I came back a couple of years ago, there had been tremendous changes made in my absence.  I've tried to use the Learning Center to educate myself about the "new" HP, but I keep running into contradictions like you pointed out.  I now use the forums, rather than the Learning Center, to actually learn about HP.

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      ChristinSposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Those blasted scores are a source of so much stress around here for some and that stinks.  I think both statements apply.  Those who say the scores are not important are correct. Why? Technically, your hub doesn't have to score high to get high traffic.  If you are here to make money, traffic is what you are worried about more than score. 
      
      Hub scores are important too though (yes I know contradiction lol) Hub Scores can be important as a reflection of quality in most (not all) cases.  They also can lead to "no follow" links that can be potentially harmful to those trying to get some traffic from their hubs to their blogs etc. 
      
      So, this is one of those areas where both "sides" have valid points. 
      
      I think those who advise not to worry so much about hub/hubber scores do so because they know that it doesn't really stop someone from earning with it unless the low score truly is due to low quality.   One of my highly pinned hubs has decent traffic.  It was a hub on favorite quotes - a subject I know HubPages isn't fond of, but I certainly was.  I created pretty pinable graphics for it and it gets traffic, so my low 70 score on there doesn't bother me in the least.

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         OldRosesposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         Christin, thank you for your thoughtful reply.  Can you explain "no-follow" to me?  I haven't been able to find any information on it and with my falling hub scores, I'm concerned that I may become affected by it and not know it.

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            ChristinSposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            The biggest problem is that no-follow links on HubPages are not indexed by Google. Not a total loss, as you can focus on getting traffic other ways, but most want their work indexed by Google.
            
            There are other things to consider as well.
            
            From my understanding having a lot of no-follow links going into your website can harm your website rankings.  For example if I write hubs and then they are "no-followed" due to low score and I have them all linked to my relevant website and my site to them, it can have a potentially negative impact.
            
            A lot of hubbers cross-promote.  If they have a niche in say gardening If you're main blog or site is about gardening and you link all of your gardening hubs to your website and they are no-follow, it may possibly hurt the rank of your website.

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               OldRosesposted 9 years agoin reply to this

               Thank you so much for that explanation.  My site is devoted to herbs so there are very few links between it and my hubs which cover other gardening topics.  I'm trying to follow the dictum of not having all of my eggs in the same basket.

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               Chinaimportposted 9 years agoin reply to this

               Christin S There is a difference between no-follow and no-index tags.
               
               When one’s Hubber score drops below 85 all outgoing links become no follow.  It means those links lose their ability to pass on link juices to external pages (another hub or your blog /web page)  At this point, hub is still in Google’s index and searchable.  Once a hub becomes non featured, HP slaps a no index meta tag which tells Google not to crawl that particular hub and remove from the Google’s index.
               
               My Hubber score also dropped from 92 to 76 in a couple of days but hubs are still in Google search index.  I have, however, lost ability to boost the PageRank of my website orchestrated via do-follow links in my Hubs.

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                  OldRosesposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                  China, today my Hubber score has fallen to 82 although there has been no change in my hub scores (apparently criticizing HP and QAP is not a good idea!).  That is below the 85 cutoff score.  Does that mean that all of the links in my hubs are no-follow?  I have linked similar hubs, i,e, vegetables, flowers, garden pests.  So those links are no good now?

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                     Marisa Wrightposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                     "No Follow" just means that Google's robots won't follow those links.  It has no effect on your readers, they can follow those links no problem at all.

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                        OldRosesposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                        Thank you Marisa for clarifying that.

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8. 79

   Chinaimportposted 9 years ago

   All your links are no-follow once the hubber score drops below 85.  I would not go that far to say they are no good.  Do follow links boost your PageRank, which is one of the 200+ ranking factors utilized by Google to determine your SERP.

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   1. 94

      OldRosesposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Unbelievable.  I'd like to say more, but I have a feeling that if I expressed my true feelings, I would be permanently banned from HP.  Instead I will continue writing and increasing my traffic and earnings because living well is always the best revenge.

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      1. 79

         Chinaimportposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         As long as you follow the forum rules and etiquette, I do not see a reason why you should be banned.

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9. 0

   LisaKeatingposted 9 years ago

   If my hub scores fell that much, I would see it as a reason to revise and improve. I don't see the score as a punishment. After all, the more successful each hub is, the more successful the site is.
   
   As a teacher, a lesson I presented five years ago would seem trite and stale today. We live in a visual, multi-media world and have to constantly improve to attract our audience to great content.
   
   You might want to look at some of your shorter, related hubs and do some copy/paste to put three or four together. Make sure your first photo is really attractive. Check out Wrylilt's articles about how to make a MFP (Made for Pinterest) picture. When I read I hub I really like, I will pin it to a board ONLY if it has a great picture to display.
   
   Good luck and keep doing the "write stuff."

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   1. 94

      OldRosesposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Thank you for the advice, Lisa but as I mentioned on another forum last week, I did revise a few hubs to better meet some of HP's standards and the scores plunged even more.  That's when I realized that unless I revise ALL of my hubs to meet ALL of the QAP requirements, HP will continue to "punish" me with falling hub scores resulting in a falling Hubber score which has resulted in my links being rendered "no-follow".  And this is where I stop sharing my opinion on the situation to avoid any further repercussions.

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         TIMETRAVELER2posted 9 years agoin reply to this

         Old Roses:
         
         Every time you revamp a hub it goes through the QAP and thus the hub score drops in the same way as it would if you were writing the hub the first time.
         
         Those scores are constantly changing, so even though scores may be low after editing a hub, it can rise up again after a fairly short period of time.

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10. 61

    LindaSmith1posted 9 years ago

    I don't worry over hub scores because they are an internal thing.  I have seen mine drop one day, and go back up a few days later without touching them.  If I have one that hits 40, then I know there is something wrong with it.

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       OldRosesposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Linda, I am in total agreement with you.  I have concluded that as long as my hubs are making money, I'm not going to worry about hub scores.

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11. 61

    LindaSmith1posted 9 years ago

    I just made a big sale on one that is in the 60's.  It is when they drop to 40 that you need to worry because that is a quality issue.  The scores fluctuate, sometimes alot and frequently and sometimes not so quickly.  In fact, when your first publish, you get a hub score because it is computer generated from what I understand.

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    1. 94

       OldRosesposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       My complaint was because I have hubs that are literally years old and have always had steady scores with minor fluctuations up and down.  After HP announced the new editor program, my hub scores dropped dramatically.  Like I said above, I tried revising some of my hubs, but the scores kept going lower.  When I posted this question and aired my grievances, my hubber score started falling, from 89 to 84 and now it's down to 82 while my average hub score has held at 66 (it had been 78 because of some low-quality unpublished hubs).  This was a sudden and dramatic change for me that started as soon as HP announced the editor program to force hubbers to follow QAP guidelines.  I don't follow those guidelines and have no intention of following those guidelines so I am suffering the consequences.  I don't understand what their problem is with me because I am making increasing amounts of money as I build my brand, of which they get a percentage.

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          calculus-geometryposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          This was a sudden and dramatic change for me that started as soon as HP announced the editor program to force hubbers to follow QAP guidelines.  I don't follow those guidelines and have no intention of following those guidelines so I am suffering the consequences. 
          
          (1) QAP has been in effect long since before the professional editing program was introduced.
          
          (2) If your hubs are featured, then you are passing the QAP guidelines whether you intended to or not.  The standards are fairly basic and do not require every hub to have 10 quizzes, 3 polls, 2 maps, 11 pictures and confetti.  I have many hubs in the 500-600 word range with only 3 basic pictures and they are all featured, thus meeting QAP guidelines.
          
          (3) You are not suffering any consequences per se, but are experiencing the same phenomenon many many other people (including me) are experiencing with regard to scores.  For whatever reason, the scoring formula has been tweaked and many people are seeing scores go down, and yes it is strange that it came on the heels on the professional editing program.  But I don't care, because my earnings are way up and I care more about money than I do a mysterious grading scheme.

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             OldRosesposted 9 years agoin reply to this

             Thanks, Calculus.  After carefully considering all of the comments, including yours, I've decided to just ignore the scores and enjoy the money!

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12. 85

    Marisa Wrightposted 9 years ago

    Just an update on this whole discussion.   It looks like HubPages has made a further tweak to HubScores and looking at my own Hubs, it appears that the "Stellar Hub" criteria (in the top right hand corner of the Hub) are now a MAJOR factor in deciding score.   
    
    I'm pleased about that in a way, because I can now see what the scores mean and know how to "fix" them if I want to.  They are now purely a way for HubPages to encourage us to follow their idea of best practice.  And who can blame them?  It's their site, they get to say what they want. 
    
    It also means that if you consciously decide not to follow those guidelines, you know that your score will be low, so you have no cause to complain, and you don't have to feel aggrieved because you know why they're low.

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       calculus-geometryposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       I noticed this too and was waiting for Paul & Co. to come and offer an explanation or confirmation.  But I guess they are really committed to keeping the scoring system top secret for whatever reason. All of mine that dramatically dropped from previously ok scores are below the suggested minimum word count of 700 as it shows in the 'stella' box. 
       
       
       

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          Marisa Wrightposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          Mine too.

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          Chinaimportposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          My hubs are between 1500 to 2500 words range and yet HubScore dropped like a stone.  They are recovering slowly so word count may not be the only thing responsible for the drop in the score.  Google traffic has improved by 20%, giving me little reason for complaint.

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             Marisa Wrightposted 9 years agoin reply to this

             Word count is not the only box to tick.

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                Chinaimportposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                Marisa, I agree that word count is just one of the factor.  Apart from useful content, they all have few pictures (4 to 10), tables, map, quizzes and polls wherever appropriate.  Some of my hubs also find the first page slot for relevant keywords and 85% of my traffic is from search engines.  My top performing hubs do not have a high HubScore.

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             RockyMountainMomposted 9 years agoin reply to this

             All boxes are checked in all of my hubs and all are continuing to fall since the changes.
             
             Not a large number of hubs and and I'm fairly new still, so for whatever that's worth---in a small way I find it a bit more telling, since my scores all followed the forum-attested patterns previously, in that they gradually climbed in score, fell briefly after editing, then continued to climb.  I say more telling because with a smaller number of hubs all following the stellar hubs criteria, there's less variation in syle/approach involved, and since they haven't aged yet, neither longevity nor staleness are at play yet for me.
             
             As a newcomer, I'm finding it pretty interesting to watch the patterns/non-patterns, the theories (I've seen several really good ones), the responses, and even the tanking of my scores.
             
             I thought I'd grasped the advice not to worry about scores---but it was easier to think I'd grasped it when my scores were good.
             
             Please, all of you, keep sharing your theories, and patterns (if there are any you're seeing).  We (newbies, voyeurs, etc.) are watching intently----thank you

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13. 61

    LindaSmith1posted 9 years ago

    Marisa: I don't understand what you are seeing. There is nothing in top right hand corner of my hubs that I checked and one has a 92 score.  All of  my scores have gone up.

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       Marisa Wrightposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       If you look at the top right hand corner of your Hubs in edit mode, you'll see the "Stellar Hub" guidelines.   The more boxes you have ticked, the higher your score will be.

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14. 63

    gardener denposted 9 years ago

    Marisa
    I have not found anything about a steller hub in my hubs? Were do you look for this nothing in the upper right hand side of my page or pages.  Gardener Den

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       OldRosesposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       You have to be in "edit" mode to see it.

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15. 79

    infostreamnetworkposted 9 years ago

    I've had a quick look at your hubs and can tell that you are a good writer and deserve to be read. Your problem isn't your ability as a writer. If you want to improve your hub scores and Google ranking you would need to change your writing style to fit more for what Google is looking for. After the Panda update Google is really looking to promote in depth articles that are better than everyone else. The average number 1 ranking article is around 2,500 words and has totally unique content (e.g. your own photos and info not available elsewhere). Try searching the internet for tips on how to write high ranking articles.

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       OldRosesposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Thank you for your thoughtful reply.  I've learned from this thread that my hub scores don't affect my traffic or my earnings, so I can stop stressing about them and just continue to write and edit my hubs so that my traffic and earnings will continue to increase.

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16. 60

    Kathy Croninposted 9 years ago

    Yeah, I hate the implied "quantity equals quality" minimum word requirement (though I can understand their reasons for wanting to prevent spammers, etc). Still, it's quite unfair to expect people to water down good, short and to-the-point content just to meet a requirement.

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    1. 85

       Marisa Wrightposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       You're misunderstanding the intent of the word count suggestion.
       
       To earn money, a Hub needs to be getting about 90% of its traffic from search engines.   So you  have two goals.  The primary one is to satisfy your readers, they are always the most important - but what good is a great Hub if readers can't find it?
       
       All the suggestions in the Stellar Hub guidelines are designed to raise your Hub's chances of being found by readers.  Google likes long articles.  Long articles give you the chance to include a greater variety of keywords relating to your subject, so Google understands what it's about.  Properly captioned images mean your Hub will also be found in Image Search. And so on.

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          Jean Bakulaposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          A lot of my hub scores went up on my long hubs, and when I was a newbie I was criticized a lot for writing long hubs. But they all went on to be my best money makers, even before all this "stellar" business. I don't like the polls and quizzes, nobody takes them, and they don't fit in a lot of categories.
          
          Another thing, is anyone else noticing that when people read your hubs, they aren't marking the "thumbs up" or "thumbs down", or even the "interesting" or other ways to leave their opinion on your hubs? And does that matter?

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             Marisa Wrightposted 9 years agoin reply to this

             I hadn't noticed.   A long time ago, Paul Deeds said the thumbs up/down votes had virtually no effect on anything, so no they don't matter.

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          OldRosesposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          I understand the intent of the work count but it's unintended effect is to seriously lower the quality of writing on HP.  In a desperate effort to maximize their word count, Hubbers resort to throwing in a lot of extraneous stuff and writing a lot of repetitious passages.  A professional editor would cut out up to 50% of the verbiage on most of the hubs that I "read" as unneeded and repetitious.  If HP is so concerned with quality, then they need to lower or eliminate the word count.

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             Chinaimportposted 9 years agoin reply to this

             I agree with Marisa that word count is important. I also agree that a professional editor would not like long, repetitious article.  Unfortunately, Google does not employ professional editors to rank web pages so HP decided to enforce Google friendly guidelines to ensure hubs rank higher in SERP
             
             Let's say you have been tasked to find the value of paintings in an art gallery and you have no idea about art at all.  The logical way would be to take a stopwatch and track time spend on each painting by the visitors.  If they come back again next day to look at particular painting, you know that it has more value.  It is even more if they send their friends to have a look.  That’s how Google ranks your hub.  They look for time spend on a page, repeat visitors, backlinks and social signals to rank a page.
             
             Another important ranking factor is text to code ratio.  Google looks at amount of programming code that is used in making a webpage and text that is put for users to view.  A higher text to code ratio is a positive ranking signal.  The minimum word count of 1150 words is probably enforced to ensure higher text to code ratio.
             
             PS: Marisa wrote some useful articles on backlinks and promoting your hubs.  You may want to read if you have time.

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17. 59

    Gods Provisionposted 9 years ago

    Do the scores given to hubs mean more than just what HubPages thinks of your posting? I'm not certain what they are for.

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    1. 85

       Marisa Wrightposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       If you'd read the thread before posting this question, you wouldn't be asking the question!  (hint:  I find the chronological view of the forums is easier to follow than the threaded version).
       
       HubScore and HubberScore don't mean much - they certainly don't have any impact on your Hubs' ability to earn income.  HubScore is made up of a number of factors, including the score given to it by the QAP (quality assessment process) team, but also including factors like length, number of comments, number of images and videos - none of which is really a quality measure.
       
       If you want to shoot for a high HubScore even though it's irrelevant, look a the checkboxes in the top right hand corner when you edit a Hub - the more boxes you can tick, the higher your score will be.

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          RockyMountainMomposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          Two points, though, for the sake of argument--
          
          1.  Though the question was addressed previously in this thread, and answered in various forms, it is in many ways an unanswerable question, so it could be taken to be just as valid at the end of this forum as at the beginning (as also evidenced by it's frequency in forums in general, from what I've seen so far)
          
          2.  I bothered to read the whole forum, but not before posting three or four times.  This is my only response so far that follows reading the whole thread.  I'd never be able to go back and find all the sub-threads that sparked my comments if I waited until the end (arguably, this would be the case even if I didn't have ADHD and Lyme disease---neither of which is fully offset by my over-schooling, relatively decent attention span, and general smarts).
          
          I can't address the sequential versus threaded forum views yet, though, because I don't understand.  But I'll take a minute and try....unless I get distracted.

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