I am not going to drag up the recent massive plagiarism activity again, but - as you know Maddie - I have found that quite a lot of my hubs have been de-indexed and my traffic here is dropping despite publishing new work and despite actively promoting myself outside of hubpages.
I realize that it is my responsibility to chase down copies of my work, but:
http://hubpages.com/hub/Making-Money-On … t-hubpages
http://shetoldme.com/Entertainment/Maki … t-hubpages
http://myhubpagesarticles.blogspot.com/ … -that.html
http://www.flixya.com/post/wu201/172540 … t_hubpages
http://getmonynow.blogspot.com/2009/09/ … nline.html
http://www.sitesreview.net/articles/pri … orked.html
http://www.sitesreview.net/articles/142 … orked.html
I have already had several instances of this shut down, and it was on the docshop site as well - but I wonder if there is some sort of active way of dealing with this that might be done as a community?
I don't know how much effect this has on traffic - but my traffic is certainly down. And - a search for the text "There is much discussion about making money online and the" - no quotation marks - brings my original hub no where in the first 500 google results. Yet several of the copied pages are in the first 20 results.
On a personal level - I would like some help. On a community level - I would like to be involved in dealing with this.
Assuming there is something we can do?
Oh Mark.. You have already lost google positions?
I know the pride you have in your work just from how you write.
So Sorry mate
Sorry to hear that MK. I don't have any ideas as yet however I am bumping this up as I think it's important.
Sorry about that I hope someone can really help you. I would if I could, but I know nothing about those web's issues
Well - it is more the fact that my own work seems to have been penalized - yet these copies appear in the search rankings. If there is nothing I can do well, OK - but it does bite
I don't expect hubpages to be able to stop some random person from copying my work. But I do expect mine to rank higher and that is what worries me.
what about copyright ? If your stuff has been written earlier that the copied ones, they're obviously yours. Can't Google do something about it ?
Mark many of the ones you listed are rather new, they are enjoying their short and probably only high placement most likely because they are new, they WILL be reindexed,your older and more backlinked hub will certainly jump back to the top
I practiced some poor techniques in article marketing in my learning stages and saw my "money site" jump around quite abit ecause of all the dupes i put out - it still one out in the end
just trying to throw in some reassurance, i saw your blog and your perceived google slap..I dont think so, and hope not ..it does seem like indexing is a little on teh slow side but hey traffic will always vary, 3 years is great level of stats to know the trends, but since your known as a success in your hubs, i wouldnt be surprised if you have some emulators deconstructing your hubs and keywords between (TKA) and here
Well, if it was only this hub I would not be worried. I don't know exactly what the issue is. But - I have quite a few hubs that are de-indexed lol
And yes - I do have some "emulators" copying what I do - one of them wrote and asked me to critique his version of one of my hubs the other day.
But I am still worried about the amount of hubs I have had removed from the index - some of them are not new.
And I do not expect hubpages to be able to put a stop to the copying - but I would appreciate some help as to why this one is gone and what I can do about future plagiarism and this.
Maybe this could be addressed by the hubpages staff technicians, code that would allow hubbers to protect their original work by the same method used in Microsoft Word, you can select "read-only", share or do not share, protect photos from being copied by "read-only" as well, and like some emails prevent the receiver from altering the original email when forwarding it to someone else....? Also, my daughters submit their homework online for Honors English and it goes through a plagerism check before they can submit their reports or research papers as their own...?
I did a quick search and found this lengthy blog post about content theft. It was a good read and opened my eyes quite a bit to what really goes on.
http://lorelle.wordpress.com/2006/04/10 … r-content/
It may be a lot of work, but I would be just as mad if I were in your shoes.
A Copyright Notice should be displayed on all articles along with the date published. This can make many spammers keep away from copying hubs.
"Copyright 2009 Hubpages Author........ All rights reserved. This material may not be republished, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed in any way"
It should be kept at the beginning of each hub which should be a Gif or Image that is not a Text.
The Hubbers should have the Option to Decide to Display or Not this Notice in their Hubs.
There is a copyright at the bottom of every page on HubPages.
I agree something would be nice. I just spent all morning sending in Google DMCA requests and a few Yahoo Answers, and I gave up. When my last hub on the list had about 10 websites. I am done for the day, until Google responds to a few emails. I want to say I sent about 40 requests to Google alone.
I most definitely have better things that I could be doing, like writing a hub, not trying to defend current one... But, hey it's my responsibility.
Mark, how did you know it was not indexed? Just lack of traffic where you normally had traffic? Or were you just checking the copyright feature on HP
Actually I found this by accident. I have quite a few hubs that all of a sudden stopped getting any outside traffic - so I have been going through them and seeing what the issue is. Some of them have been removed from the index completely - i.e. I can not find them searching for the URL. Some one sent me a list of copies of this that have been published so I decided to look. Lo and behold - no where in the rankings.
Others seem to have been penalized and moved way out of the rankings - like this one - which I cannot find for a search for the opening sentence in the first 500 google results.
So there is 2 issues and the one that bugs me is the fact that these copies ARE findable and mine is not.
I think the point Shinujohn is making is that the curren copyright notice is in a place where it's barely noticeable - I didn't know it was there until Paul Deeds mentioned it.
Just because it has a Copyright patent can we actually do anything? This I guess is elaborating on Marks origanl question.
I just did a spot check of 6 of your older hubs, and there doesn't seem to be a pattern. 2 of the 6 have been de-indexed apparently, but both weren't property hubs and not all property hubs were de-indexed, so I can't imagine it's a Google slap to the niche. And in the cases where you were de-indexed, HubPages came up at the top either as http://hubpages.com/topics/whatever or http://hubpages.com/tags/whatever. So I can't imagine it's a blanket HP Google slap.
I've had this happen, Sandra is going through it now with one of her top hubs and a lot of other people have had it happen. I just think it's a case of Google sh*t happening and I'm sure your hubs will come back.
I do find it disturbing that more and more lately, I see hubs ranking lower than other sites that we should definitely be ranking higher than. I'm not convinced about any targeted Google slap, but I do think it has an awful lot to do with the boatloads of complete and utter garbage that's on HP now. I know we all need to do our part to flag the stuff when we see it, but I would like to see the HP team take a tougher stance on the quality of hubs.
Do you think that this could be part of the issue?
Its the same situ for me.
Personally I think that everybody should shut down shop for one month (basically dont write) and work on removing all copied content.
It wont stop plagiarism, but it would send out some messages on the internet that hubpages is not a place to steal content.
Mark, hopefully you'll get it all situated. I wish I had more time to look at my hubs. I know I have just spent an hour and a half sending Google infringement reports, but I don't know if I can sit here and search over 600 in search engines to make sure they're still there. Too bad there's not an easy button for it, much less an easy button to stop it from happening.
That's not going to give any impression. All it's going to do is drive many people's revenue down from not producing that month. It's not going to say, 'hey don't steal from us; we'll take action.' It's going to say, 'if you steal from us, we're going to stop writing new stuff, but by all means the old stuff is still free game.'
Fair enough, I get your point (and maybe a week would be more realistic) but there are many hubbers who dont ever do anything when there content is stolen.... that cant be good for the site. Uninvited_writer has a good idea though, she hides a backlink in every hub (to the same hub) which means that any stolen content at least potentially gives her a few dofollow back links (although likely lots of nofollow). I may start doing the same. That way, I will take action against those that notice and remove the backlink.... and leave the others be.
Even I have about 10 DCMA's to submit.... and thats without having a proper hunt. I found one yesterday on Digg!
that whole doctoc thing took the wind out of my sails because i spent time trying to deal with that crap and after it was 'resolved' someone posted that the thief was at it again with a new docstoc account. any HubPages stuff i do today witll be inserting ownership blurbs in each hub and bulding backlinks. i wish that Hubpages might consider some sort of banner on its pages saying that they take the theft of its articles very seriously so think twice before you steal stuff or something. even if the stealing is done with a bot it's obvious whoever is doing it is reading them because they are stripping out incriminating evidence as to the true authors.
Mark, Im sorry to hear that your work is being plagiarised by lazy so and so's. I agree with most of the comments that it should come right after the search engines realise that the new blogs ahve copied content and their rise to the top short lived.
I thinks its the flaw with the search engines recognising blogs as having a high rank for search terms.My forum on my website gets spammed every day by non english speaking posts for backlinks and i cant remove them fast enough.They have found a way past the posting moderation requirements.I know its not related to your problem, but i understand your frustration.
Anyway, good luck.
Always the Top Writers and Articles of every website is targeted by the spammers. If Top hubbers list and high score hubs LIST is not displayed , it would prevent bulk copying of BEST articles to some extent.
(I know this Step is Impossible to Happen)
Shutting down shop during the Holiday season isn't going to help any of us nor is it going to happen.
Mark, I wish someone could answer your questions. I agree 100% that we need to work as a community to solve this - if someone could give us a bit of leadership on it, I'd be happy to step it up another notch to help my fellow hubbers. I have not had any work copied - no surprise there
Someone commented on the other doc-whatever thread that it was the "newbies" who were getting their undies in a bundle over this - and its not just the newbies who are seeing this - its hub-wide.
Is it also affecting those who write on Triond and How To Do Things?
I am going to add the copywrite on the bottom of my hubs, as I have few it won't take long - but if someone is using a program to snatch articles versus copy & paste - then the copywrite will show up.
I have been flagging hubs frequently - but they are still there. Poor content, crap content or rich with pictures of woman scantily dressed with their nipples showing through their clothing - I'm sure my teenage son would love to stumble upon these hubs (wink).
Mark, did it happen right before the last weekend? Looks like BigG changed something in its algo yet again, I've been hit outside HP, too.
You are just one egg in the basket that has been hit,as I have lost half of my impressions also in the last month.
Google cache of Most of the copied hubs in Docstoc are still in top positions.
The deleted pages are not showing 404 Error pages. It is just redirecting to Recent Documents Page with a notice. There is more chance for those deleted pages to remain in top positions there for a long time and the orginal hubs getting deindexed.
And the Person who Copied all our Hubs May be still Earning Money from adsense Through His Ads displayed in Cached Pages.
Let Google erase it from its servers , then hubs will start getting traffic like before. Till then hubbers should be ready to face penalties and slaps from Google and other search engines in the form of decrease in Traffic.
Many of Misha's and Mark's hubs has been copied in Docstoc. It might have caused the de-indexing of their hubs , eventhough the copied pages have been deleted. More than 1000 of my hubs have been copied to that site. I am experiencing Lower and lower Traffic from past days.
I'm not sure if one week's worth of copied content to one website would cause a hub to be de-indexed. Could be really wrong there, but that just doesn't make sense, especially as Mark posted many other websites that he's found has copied that one hub.
Also, docstock really wasn't getting HUGE traffic, at least not that I was seeing. One of my stolen ones only had 7 hits in a week, I received about 23 times that on the original. It may not be much, but it seemed most of their stolen articles only had a few hits per article, which means they weren't stealing too much of the traffic. It's the search engines pushing you down from the copied content.
The one site was taken care of and is still working on whatever kinks they have from people still re-posting the hubs, but there are more things that go into factor of traffic than one website.
Also remember that the traffic will vary. It's not always going to stay the same. I could understand if you're used to say 7500 hits a day and now it's like 2000 or less, but small dips are to be expected.
I am not really concerned about the copying - because that is almost impossible to stop. What concerns me most is the fact that I cannot find my hub in the search results - yet the copies are there.
I have my stuff copied all the time. I spend one day a month chasing it down. I cannot spend any more time than that on it.
But my hub seems to have been penalized for some reason. I cannot imagine it was something another site did.
As far as I am concerned it is my responsibility to chase down copied work, but I have no control over the internal mechanisms here - that seem to be causing me a penalty.
I had that with at least one of my Hubs. (I haven't even been able to deal with trying to look up more than a few.) One that had had really a very decent rank just kind of got booted to the depths. Once I saw that it was in at least three places on docstoc I assumed I was the one who had penalized for duplicate content. Something similar happened with a couple of the others I checked, although I didn't find them plastered in a "zillion" different sites. My earnings were way down, and once the docstoc thing got cleared up the earnings went back to a decent level again (although not what they've been in the past).
There are a couple of things we are considering adding that may help a little. For copied hubs, we're going to check the copied url more frequently and give you an indicator when it has been removed (ie. returns a 404 - page not found). The other thing we can do is put in a link that automatically generates the text of a proper DMCA complaint for you. You'll still have to cut and paste it into an email, fax, or whatever.
If you've got other ideas on how we can make the process of dealing with copied hubs more efficient for you, please post them here.
Thanks for taking this into consideration Paul, as this has worried a fair few people.
That would be great, as of now the links that show the hub was potentially copied in the 'copied hubs' button section, stay for ages in the copy even if it's been removed from the site.
If you haven't noticed, these changes have been made. They are only relevant to you if you see a small red copyright symbol next to one of your hubs on the my account page.
Paul Deeds, the automatically generated text for DMCA complaints is a great idea.
Of the three articles that I tested for being copied online, two linked back to Hubpages and the only one that did not link back went to WordPress as copied.
I now index all of my hubpages to my email account so that I can check for duplication on the Google Search Engine when I am not at work on Hubpages.
Why is it that you can write so well on the forum but some of your hubs seem like they are written by young children?
Are you outsourcing? That would explain a lot, what is it.... $1 an article from the east?
$1 in the Phillipines, most of the east is $2, lol
A few suggestions based on what seems to be group consensus, along with some of my own ideas --
1. Require a minimum number of words per hub.
2. Limit the number of photos allowed per hub.
3. Compile a list of free plagiarism checkers. Encourage hubbers to spot check their work on a regular basis. The sooner plagiarism is caught, the less revenue lost; don't rely on other websites to catch plagiarists quickly or efficiently. Post the list of free plagiarism checkers throughout HubPages as a "Beware of Dog" deterrent to plagiarists.
4. Eliminate the 30-30 Hub Challenge at least until quality can be controlled better. Temporarily limit the number of new hubs that can be published per month per hubber.
5. Eliminate the hub ratings (or whatever they're called) so plagiarists can't locate the "best" hubs easily.
google has been making algo changes
http://searchengineland.com/caffeine-go … ndex-23823
A couple of observations/ questions:
You're only highlighting this one hub, so I may be missing the mark on your problems. But here goes.
1) That hub has a fresh cache date and ranks number one for the the phrase "Three things that have worked for me at hubpages", so it's in the index.
2) I've had a couple of hubs just drop out of site that were ranking 1 or 2 for their search terms. But the same is true on my main sites, so I assume Google is jacking things around a little.
3) Looking at your Analytics, for the top terms that you were driving traffic to that hub with, have your rankings changed for those? I can't imagine a hub ranking on page one for "Making Money Online" for very long without a lot of external links, and looking at Yahoo you don't have a ton of them for that Hub, and some of those are nofollowed. The pages ranking on page one of google are generally PR 3 to 5, and most hubpages that are doing well are in the PR 2-3 range.
4) How old is that hub? Sometimes posts/ hubs get some Google love early and drop off, and you are only showing a PR of 0, which generally on hubpages is indicative of a relatively new hub.
5) One the topic of linkbuilding, it looks like you've submitted your RSS feed to a few sites, but they are not publishing a summary but several paragraphs of content, i.e. it's creating duplicate content, and the phrase you are looking for is the first line of the hub so it's in every RSS feed. If you search farther down like the phrase "In my not-so-humble opinion, there is only one way to make money from Amazon in any quantity" then your hub is 3rd after the docstoc and the blogspot, which will die in the index because the only backlink it has is the link you put up in this forum thread.
As I recall you were having similar problems with your foreclosure hubs (I may be remembering this wrong) but the same comment would apply, generally those top listings look like they are PR 4 or more, very tough to compete with on Hubpages.
Overall, without knowing all the hubs that you have been having problems with, it looks like you've got some hubs that have done well for very competitive search terms, but have trailed off after the intial "new" content push from Google died off and it will take some high quality linking to bring them back.
That will also take care of the duplicate content problem, as those may do well in the short term because of the "new" content push they get, but in the long run the page with the most high quality links will win.
This won't fix the problem but it could make it easier to track ...
In the middle of each hub place a text box and type in "looking for more info from Mark Knowles? feel free to ask in the comments section down below"
If someone copies the article verbatim they will capture the catch phrase and it will also be in their document. Then, you need only Google the catchphrase to find your documents and the clones.
This won't help with things already copied, but it will help you find copied materials in the future.
I know how you must feel as the Docstoc debacle clubbed one of my hubs and another is just now recovering. We're here for ya buddy!
I appreciate you taking the time to look at this issue. But - that hub is not properly indexed and a google search for the phrase,
There is much discussion about making money online and the internet is chock-a-block full of “guaranteed returns,” and “amazing opportunities,” to make money easily.
Returns a result that shows a a hot tag as the first result, followed by a bunch of plagiarized pages, but the hub page itself is not in the results. Which suggests it has been penalized for some reason.
And this is absolutely not the only hub that has been penalized. Find this one - http://hubpages.com/hub/Forex-Trading-a-guide
in the first 500 results for the phrase "Trades are made between large banks, central banks, currency speculators, multinational corporations, governments, and even the other financial markets."
Guess what? - nowhere to be seen and if you use quotation marks:
"Trades are made between large banks, central banks, currency speculators, multinational corporations, governments, and even the other financial markets."
http://www.google.fr/search?hl=fr&q … &meta=
www. docstoc.com is the first result and my hub does not appear at all.
So - a lot of my hubs have been penalized.
And it is not a question of not enough backlinks. I mean - if I needed to generate as many backlinks here at hubpages as I need to for my own sites - what would be the point of using hubpages and giving up 40% of the page impressions?
I can usually get a page toPR3 just using the HP internal linking system. In fact - if you look at that last page - it is indeed a PR3.
Yoshi - Thanks also. My concern is not the copies - that is all but impossible to stop and I really do not have time to go hunting for any of the several thousand pages I have that get copied. Nor do I expect HP to stop that. My concern is a penalty that means MY pages are not showing in the results.
Docstoc deleted pages are not getting removed from google cache. Only when it happens everything will get back to normal.
Clearly I am not making myself understood.
I don't care how many people copy my work.
There is nothing I can do to stop that and no matter how many times I say "this is copyrighted" - they will still copy it.
When I go after them - I only ever go after their adsense account. If I can get their adsense account shut I feel I have achieved something - and if hubpages wanted to get involved in actively getting people's adsense accounts closed, I would get involved, but - that is a big job and generates considerable ill will....lol
What I care about is the fact that my pages have been penalised and the copies are showing up in the index - but mine are not.
I know what you mean Mark, but I don't know how to bump your pages back up. I was just talking to others about possible preventive measures.
I did some research on being 'sandboxed', which it sounds like you are. I hope this helps.
You say these hubs are penalized. There are generally 2 reasons why a page won't rank, not enough links to outrank similar (or duplicate content), or too many links centered on one phrase. In this case it just looks like it's not enough.
I still don't know what search terms you think you were getting traffic from, but if we look at "making money online" using the yahoo site explorer tool, I just picked the 7th site to look at since it had the lowest page rank of the top 10 (a PR 3). That page has over 6000 inbound offsite links, compared to your 32, half of which are from a single sitewide link, and some of the others are nofollowed.
Candidly I think you are getting distracted from the root cause with this duplicate content problem. Duplicate content alone won't keep you from showing up in the rankings. Ezinearticles makes its living promoting duplicate content, and generally they outrank every site that copies (err... I mean publishes) one of their articles. Same with articlebase, isnare, and all the major article directories. Copied content can outrank the original, especially when first published, since Google does give a push to new content, but that's mainly if the original has a weak link profile.
Step back and set that aside for the moment.
Ask yourself: What are the search terms I expect to rank for with these hubs? What are the current pages ranking for those terms? How do I compete in terms of page rank and inbound links? If you aren't competitive with the top pages for PR and links, you won't rank. Hubpages does a lot of good, you have over 1200 links from hubpages, but for this search term you need a lot more help.
John very interesting analysis. If correct, and it does sound plausible, then the average joe affiliate really needs to figure out ways to get thousands of backlinks to compete effectively and rank consistently.
I need to start thinking about a strategy for this.
Its not about finding 1000's of backlinks its about finding the niches and terms that have weak competition.
Anything in the "make money" category is saturated and difficult to compete in, since they are so profitable they are staunchly defended.
When your controlling a niche like that you put money back into keeping the ranking - purchasing backlink software, link building services etc.
im pretty sure mark even uses those services for his real internet real estate -as he mentions on his blogs
I've always thought using backlink software and purchasing links was google poison. So i've never done them. I have set up my shop on the long end of the tail. So "making money online" and "real estate" aren't places I've played in very much.
can be google poison..depends on who your working with...its not to be done w/o fully understanding of how its working.
..bad neighborhoods..speed of backlink generation is the main concern
You want to be sure to do no more 20/30 backlinks a day - and to be on sites with PR and relevance
which brings up an important distinction in John research up above - I would trade 1000 random backlinks anyday for 50 backlinks on relavant PR5+ pages
quality of backlinks is a huge factor in ranking
I occasiionally purchase backlinks for new sites, PR7 goes for $5 a piece!
just coincidence that Marks "real estate" on the web is real estate..i missed that when i used my choice of words
I found quite a few of my hubs copied using this plagiarism checker.
It's an academic one. Free version is good, but there's an $8 per month option that is apparently a lot better.
Alternative to Copyscape ?
Only way to deal with this issue is to file DMCA notice online. One of my hub was copied by three people at fixya.com. I've to file 3 DMCA notice to the site and it took about a week for the removal of duplicate content by the site. Google sometime removes the copied content within 2-3 days and sometimes it may take more time.
I can't understand HP shows in details that copied content has been removed on a particular date but keeps showing copyright sign. There are some funny dimensions attached to the plagiarism aspect. If you unpublish your hub for few days and republish it again, it may show that your hub is duplicate content.
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