Which niche site will survive the cull?

1. 94

   Mike Grindleposted 4 months ago

   Here's the current state of the niche sites, as far as I can tell:
   
   TatRing, Felt Magnet and How They Play are technically up, but all content has been moved to Discover.
   
   YouMeMindBody and Soapboxie are fully gone and redirect to Discover.
   
   Exemplore has some news stuff, but the bulk of the actual content is gone.
   
   Levelskip and ReelRundown are hanging on, but articles are being moved. So, I assume they're finishing up.
   
   PetHelpful, Delishably, Bellatory, AxelAddict, Dengarden, ToughNickel, WanderWisdom, CalorieBee, PairedLife, Letterpile, Holidappy, Hobbylark, Owlcation, SkyAboveUs, RemedyGrove, Patients Lounge, HealthProAdvice, CrimeWire and TurboFuture all remain in some form or another.
   
   Which niche will be the last site standing? Will any survive? Place your bets now!
   
   (Just FYI, I have no strong opinions about whether this is a good thing or not. Here's hoping the Discover experiment works out in favor of the authors here)

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      CYong74posted 4 months agoin reply to this

      I'm surprised they didn't trash Letterpile first. Just saying.
      
      I think all will be gone.

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         Mike Grindleposted 4 months agoin reply to this

         The order has surprised me. Exemplore articles always seemed to do really well. Meanwhile, Toughnickel never actually earned me, well, a nickel. Yet the latter lives...
         But then I guess it's not being done on a weakest-to-strongest basis.
         
         I think you're right, but it would be weird to see CrimeWire go after all the effort that's been put into it over the last several months.

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         Genna Eastposted 4 months agoin reply to this

         Why would you think that LetterPile would be the first niche site to be trashed?

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            CYong74posted 4 months agoin reply to this

            Because there's always all this talk about Letterpile being the worst performing niche site, fiction/creative writing doesn't do well on the HP network, etc.
            
            The feedback about earnings by hubbers who mainly write for Letterpile seems to confirm it.

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               Genna Eastposted 4 months agoin reply to this

               Interesting.  I don’t write for LetterPile, but much of my work is scooped up and placed there -- both before and after I returned from hiatus. Sadly, as a result of the changes HP established over the past couple of years, they lost many of the most creative (and some published) authors I have ever read.  LP used to garner far more views and was more lucrative than it is currently.

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                  CYong74posted 4 months agoin reply to this

                  I have 5 hubs on LetterPile and none has ever done well. These were published in 2017.
                  
                  I think the issue is not so much that creative fiction is worthless. The problem is that they earn in a different way that’s not SEO based and what HP has been doing is to simply dump everything into a site.
                  
                  Where do we read fiction online? We follow the works of authors who are famous or whom we are familiar with. Or we go to a writing site that’s vibrant, with community interaction, etc., and read what’s recommended there.
                  
                  LetterPile was as dreary as it gets, as like the other niche sites.

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                     Genna Eastposted 4 months agoin reply to this

                     I'm so sorry that your LP's did not perform well.  But please keep in mind that others fared better.  I know this for a fact. And LP was not "dreary,"  Quite the contrary.  As I stated previously, HP lost a number of the most talented and creative writers I have ever read.  And they had many viewers and readers and community interaction.

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                        CYong74posted 4 months agoin reply to this

                        Please don't be mistaken.  I'm not saying the content is dreary. I'm saying the site itself doesn't make any effort to attract creative writers.
                        
                        It's like, why did the talented writers you highlighted leave?

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                        1. 91

                           Genna Eastposted 4 months agoin reply to this

                           I so agree.  They left because of the changes HP enacted, and the result of those changes.  (I'm still in touch with a few of them.)  To lose talent like that and the vibrant community was disheartening.

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                           1. 96

                              CYong74posted 4 months agoin reply to this

                              Well, we are probably looking at another exodus. Cheers to us.

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                        PegCole17posted 3 months agoin reply to this

                        Agreed. Some of us who love to write earned well. I can remember answering as many as 100 comments on a single episode of a published story. The interaction was what kept many of us writing and reading our favorite authors' work. So many have left because of the constantly changing requirements that kept us in editing mode rather than creative mode.

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            Miebakagh57posted 4 months agoin reply to this

            Wondering too. Or he didn't like poems or what?

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            1. 95

               PaulGoodman67posted 4 months agoin reply to this

               Letterpile is probably the least lucrative niche. That's because of the value of the keywords and because most hubs published there aren't particularly search engine friendly.
               
               I was surprised that they created a niche for general essays, opinion pieces, and poetry. My guess is they did it mainly to encourage new writers.
               
               I would therefore have expected LetterPile to go to Discover early but then it's not clear what the criterion is for moving niches.

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                  Miebakagh57posted 4 months agoin reply to this

                  The discussions about  LetterPile not being more financial friendly, and being the least of the niche sites

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                     Miebakagh57posted 3 months agoin reply to this

                     ...is well known at least.                                               Folks, I'm sorry for the sentence don't make complete sense initially due to the huge typo.                                     However,  LetterPile, like any niche sites if moved to Discover, is here to stay.

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         Eric Cauncaposted 4 months agoin reply to this

         same thought

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   2. 92

      SerenityHaloposted 4 months agoin reply to this

      PairedLife is gone. I think they’ve just kept up the news section, for whatever reason.

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      1. 94

         Mike Grindleposted 4 months agoin reply to this

         Another one bites the dust...

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      Miebakagh57posted 4 months agoin reply to this

      Who knows?

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      SerenityHaloposted 3 months agoin reply to this

      I believe Bellatory is now dead… besides 2 articles.

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      1. 94

         Mike Grindleposted 3 months agoin reply to this

         It's almost eerie how they're disappearing without so much as a word from the higher ups. Weekly newsletters have stopped and, unless I'm missing something, there's no real communication on the forums.

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            SerenityHaloposted 3 months agoin reply to this

            It is ominous. The lack of newsletters is weird.

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               PaulGoodman67posted 3 months agoin reply to this

               Although no newsletters makes more sense than sending out blank newsletters.

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2. 87

   Venkatachari Mposted 4 months ago

   I just checked PairedLife. There are some posts on the Front Page (I don't know whether they are advertisements). But, the top menu is there dividing posts into Categories. When you click each button, it shows the heading of the category and a full blank page. So, it has gone.

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3. 87

   Venkatachari Mposted 3 months ago

   I think the scoring of articles gets reduced when reverted to Discover. My articles that scored 87 to 92 were degraded to 72 to 80.

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      Mike Grindleposted 3 months agoin reply to this

      I've never paid much notices to the "scores" before. To be honest, they are a complete mystery to me, so I don't know if they reflect any real change.

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         Miebakagh57posted 3 months agoin reply to this

         Thank you.                                          I just returned from visiting my articles, and taking a look at the scores.                                        OMG I don't know what to say. Was it a dream, an aberation, or an illusion? That I can't tell.

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   2. 94

      Glenn Stokposted 3 months agoin reply to this

      Yes, Ven. Same with me. Most of my articles have always had scores in the 90s. When moved to Discover, they revert to mid 70s. The problem is that we no longer get paid when scores drop below 75 (unless they changed that algorithm HubPages had before Maven/TAG took over). I’m wondering if this move is being done to avoid paying us and keep the funds for themselves. It’s another bad sign with no transparency.

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      1. 93

         Kenna McHughposted 3 months agoin reply to this

         Hi Glen, it's good to hear from you. How is it that we no longer get paid when the scores drop below 75?

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         1. 94

            Glenn Stokposted 3 months agoin reply to this

            Hi Kenna, I don’t know if they changed the algorithm. But that was the way it was when HubPages had the platform. I remember that being noted in the payment terms back in those days. Hubs had to have a score over 75 to generate payment. Does anyone else remember that? Like I said, I don’t know if that is still the case.

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               SerenityHaloposted 3 months agoin reply to this

               I hope that’s not true. Several of my best performing ones right now are 75 and under. I always thought the score for individual articles was just random. I know the hubs that are on HubPages that never made it to Discover don’t earn, but I don’t know about this 75 rule, which would be messed up.

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            2. 93

               Kenna McHughposted 3 months agoin reply to this

               Oh boy, I wonder if that's true. With staff MIA, we may never find out.

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               1. 92

                  SerenityHaloposted 3 months agoin reply to this

                  I kind of wonder if the mass move to Discover turned into an engineering nightmare.

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4. 87

   Venkatachari Mposted 3 months ago

   That's bitter news if it could be so.
   
   I am relieved that I am not a lone scapegoat here.

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5. 94

   Glenn Stokposted 3 months ago

   Kenna and Andrea, Thanks for your comments. You both motivated me to look it up since I began to question my own memory. Sorry, my memory was a little off. This is what I found. . .
   
   It had to do with DoFollow, not payment. We had to maintain a HubPages Profile Score of 75 or above to keep our hubs DoFollow so search engines would index them. In addition, individual hubs needed to have hub scores above 40 to be DoFollow.
   
   So, that indirectly affected earnings capability since it affected organic traffic. The question I have: does that algorithm still exist? Staff isn’t answering any pertinent questions lately.
   
   Nevertheless, it’s not a concern since hubs moved to Discover are still within the threshold for DoFollow.
   
   Do a Google search for “HubPages DoFollow” for lots of old discussions on this topic.

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      SerenityHaloposted 3 months agoin reply to this

      That range makes a lot more sense. A hub that’s 40 and below is probably more like a draft of gibberish or very short.
      
      As for an author score of 75, I don’t know how exactly we get our author score. I’m uncertain whether that’s too high for this rule or not. I imagine some people’s author score did fall that low with the move, which seems unfair.

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      1. 73

         Miebakagh57posted 3 months agoin reply to this

         One of my hubs had a score of 39. Out of 72 articles, just one. It's not short or gibberish.                                        Critically, it's more than 2,500 words. But its related hub, a peom, less 1,000 words, scores above 70.

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            SerenityHaloposted 3 months agoin reply to this

            Interesting. I have no way to deduce what's happening there. I'm only walking around trying to figure things out in the shadows. Does that one article have anything different from your others?

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               Miebakagh57posted 3 months agoin reply to this

               You're welcome. But re-read my response again. I was editing and adding more details when you posted.

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                  SerenityHaloposted 3 months agoin reply to this

                  Understandable. 2,500 words is a lot. I think poems are a whole other category; the word requirement for it isn’t the same.
                  
                  Is the hub your referencing, does it still have a score of 39 or was that in the past? My initial guess is it has to do something with the content of it since the score is an outlier to your other articles.
                  
                  If I were to look at my hubs from top score to lowest, I honestly would have a hard time explaining why some at the bottom are there.

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               Miebakagh57posted 3 months agoin reply to this

               That I don't know yet. It beats my brain.                                                  I kind of modified the title, make changes within the body, run it thorough Grammarly, to no effect. It initially scored 47. So I unpublished it.                                   Then in January 2024, when re-editing the titln of my articles, I gave it a shot. It became 'featured' with a score of 47! And now at 39, its the odd man.

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                  SerenityHaloposted 3 months agoin reply to this

                  Fascinating. Sometimes it’s hard to tell why a hub scores low. This site works in mysterious ways.

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      Kenna McHughposted 3 months agoin reply to this

      Glen, thank you!

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         SerenityHaloposted 3 months agoin reply to this

         +1!

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6. 96

   Rupert Taylorposted 3 months ago

   Thanks Glenn for doing the sleuthing. There was a time when we could rely on management to settle our fluttering little hearts over issues of concern.
   
   Now HP is a fervent adherent of the mushroom theory of management in which "employees (who are illustrated as mushrooms) are kept in the dark and periodically given a load of manure" (hrinasia.com).

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      PaulGoodman67posted 3 months agoin reply to this

      That's a great (and amusing) metaphor!
      
      A few years ago, I thought it couldn't get any darker here. But I was proved wrong.
      
      I am preparing myself for the morning when I wake up, switch on my laptop, and the forums page is a 404 error.
      
      Maybe I'm wrong and I don't want to sound alarmist, but after the disappearance of the newsletter, the forums would appear to be the next logical step.

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      1. 92

         SerenityHaloposted 3 months agoin reply to this

         It’s hard to say what is really happening. I will admit when PairedLife dumped to Discover I did receive a boost in traffic and an uptick in earnings. PairedLife really wasn’t doing well.
         
         It’s not a substantial boost, but before it my traffic was almost completely pushed off the edge of a cliff. That one maneuver made it possible to keep using HP to payoff a bill. I think many writers here already feel like they’ve been pushed off the cliff, so who knows how many people were helped by the initial transfer to Discover.
         
         It feels to me like we’re in a limbo waiting to see what is next. Something definitely feels like it is pending, whatever it is. They’ve paused the newsletter for some reason. Semrush is reporting Discover traffic is up.

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         1. 95

            PaulGoodman67posted 3 months agoin reply to this

            Traffic to hubpages.com/Discover has been going up for months, according to SEMRush.
            
            If the radical algo change by Google, which now favors Reddit-style sites and (apparently) Discover, turns out to be a permanent change, then the move will turn out to be beneficial.
            
            I just have my doubts that it will provide long-term success.
            
            It's a complete turnaround from the conventional wisdom of the past twelve years or so and not easy to see why Google would no longer punish sites with lots of low-quality material.
            
            I don't seem to have had any boost from Discover move myself, so maybe that affects my judgment.
            
            There's little doubt that Discover (as a site) is doing well at the moment, though, certainly when contrasted with the niches.

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               SerenityHaloposted 3 months agoin reply to this

               This makes sense and is sensible. I think you’re approaching all of this wisely.

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      Glenn Stokposted 3 months agoin reply to this

      That says it well, Rupert. I’m beginning to feel that way.

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