Revision to TOS

1. 69

   Bonnie Ramseyposted 17 years ago

   I was wondering if there is any chance at all of getting a resion to the TOS stating that you aren't allowed to post the entire blooming phone book? This woman has 483 hubs of useless info that is nothing but phone book info! http://hubpages.com/profile/pplive
   
   I noticed that most of it is banks or financial institutions but not sure what she is getting from it. I can't mark it as spam because there is no active links there. It is getting old weeding through all these in the hubtivity to find the actual good hubbers posts!
   
   It takes long enough to weed through who joined what topic fan clubs! This is like trying to go through all the who begat who in the Bible! (Not knocking the Bible but it is a very long list of which I never make it through!) I Haven't figured out yet why it would interest me as to who joins what topic fan club LOL.
   
   Bonnie

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2. 60

   ppliveposted 17 years ago

   Hi,Bonnie Ramsey!
   I just want to give you some informations about the financial companies.I'm not just posting the phone numble.
   I think my hubs is very useful for some investors.

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3. 69

   Bonnie Ramseyposted 17 years ago

   The information is nothing that can't be found in phone books and there is no article at all with the posts. It is simply phone book info.
   
   Bonnie

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4. 67

   Mishaposted 17 years ago

   Are we opening witch hunting season?

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5. 69

   Bonnie Ramseyposted 17 years ago

   LOL, Misha! Not my intention at all. I can just imagine if we all just start posting nothing but phone book info. HP would be the phone book capitol of the world in 2 days!  I thought the idea of HP was to encourage creative writing and original content. It just seems like phone book information wouldn't quite qualify.
   
   Most hubbers work very hard and spend a great deal of time trying to create the articles that HP consideres to be quality content. It just seems reasonable to expect that we all put in a bit of effort to do the same, that's all. I am in no way trying to belittle anyone. I think she has excellent writing abilities with a little more effort.
   
   Bonnie

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   1. 59

      Mark Knowlesposted 17 years agoin reply to this

      Not with you on this one Bonnie. I don't think you have a right to expect anything from other hubbers apart from common courtesy and their following of the hubpages' TOS. You said yourself you couldn't flag them
      
      And in answer to your original query as to what pplive gets out of it - adsense income

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6. 60

   ppliveposted 17 years ago

   Hi, Bonnie Ramsey!  Maybe it looks like phone book info, but I'm not a spammer. I also spend a great deal of time to creat my hubs. Writing a hubs may spend two hours. Your post really hurt me!

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7. 69

   Bonnie Ramseyposted 17 years ago

   pplive,
   My intention was not to hurt you at all. All I am saying is that the info is easily available in the phone books. You may, indeed have useful info if you illaborate more on the companies that you write about , some history or other useful info besides just an address and phone number.
   
   Mark, I didn't say it was spam. I stated that there is no live link so it doesn't fall under spam. What I am questioning is the quality of the content. There is no information as to specifics of who they are, just an address and phone number. What I am trying to get pplive to do is add more information to the content.
   
   As many hubs as she has there, the info could be awsome stuff if there was more content in the hubs. It would also increase her hub score as well.
   It was not my intention to hurt anyone. If I just wanted to hurt her, I could mark all of them as low quality. HP has stated that quality is important in the content.
   
   If she is happy with her hub scores and hubbers don't mind weeding through them then I will accept that and move on.
   
   Bonnie

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8. 60

   ppliveposted 17 years ago

   Bonnie Ramsey! Thanks for you advice. I'll try my best to add more useful information in my next hub.

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9. 69

   Bonnie Ramseyposted 17 years ago

   pplive,
   
   You have a great example of the type of hub I am speaking about in your Pamela Anderson hub. THAT is an awsome hub! I don't like her myself but the hub is well written with good info and a good amount of content. You have the ability to have that type of information in all your hubs. I look forward to seeing more of them.
   
   Bonnie

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10. 57

    jaymzposted 17 years ago

    Bonnie  she has the CEO, competitive firms, and products too. Ha. I do agree very common info though. A little history on the companies would be cool. It would make them interesting.

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11. 0

    daflaposted 17 years ago

    You could always report her/him/whatever to adsense.  Obviously, whoever is writing these hubs has read every black hat adsense scam book there is, and knows their stuff.
    
    I agree that unless the hubs are beefed up, there needs to be some sort of limit on how many of these things we can publish.  484 in 9 months, and she/he/whatever says they take two hours apiece?  Let's see, that's about two a day.
    
    My thinking is that they have found some site that has all this info, and they're either copying and pasting, or scanning it from a book somewhere.  Copyright infringement may be an issue here.
    
    I don't think this is what HubPages had in mind when they said "useful info" was to be in Hubs,.
    
    I'd be pretty sure that isn't their real picture.

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12. 67

    Mishaposted 17 years ago

    Another witch hunter LOL

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13. 69

    Bonnie Ramseyposted 17 years ago

    Misha, why are you calling us witch hunters when we are doing what HP asks the members to do? I thought we were supposed to report hubs that we thought to be in violation of HP TOS. If the hub is low quality, which is listed in the report list then how does that make people witch hunters for reporting it? This is not the first time that these particular hubs have come into question here on the forum.
    
    What I asked pplive to do was to put some information in the hub with it so that is wasn't just a phone book ad. Should we just ignore it and let HP become the yellow pages?
    
    Bonnie

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14. 0

    daflaposted 17 years ago

    Misha, if you don't have anything constructive to say, stop trying to keep your hub score up by just posting nonsense please.
    
    This may be informative, but it surely isn't "original material".  Every hub is the same, and obviously, this is copied from some source, word for word, number for number.  This is copyright infringement, and could get Hubpages in a lot of trouble.
    
    There are black hat software programs that will do this.  And in that vein, do you even know what PPLive is?  Google it. 
    
    Seriously, is this what HubPages is going to be all about?  I'm seriously upset about this, and the fact that no one thinks this is a real threat.  This could get us in trouble with Adsense for baiting, with the FDIC, or like I said previously, copyright infringement. 
    
    Do what you want, and if you want to call it a witch hunt, call it that, but it's AdSense baiting at its worst, and it doesn't belong here.

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15. 67

    Mishaposted 17 years ago

    Bonnie,
    
    You requested the TOS to be changed to accommodate your opinion about pplive hubs. This is a bit different than checking the hubs for TOS violations, you know. I wouldn't say a word if you just flagged the hubs you don't like and let the staff do their job
    
    Dafla,
    
    If somebody is posting nonsense on these forums, it is you

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16. 69

    Bonnie Ramseyposted 17 years ago

    That request wasn't actually meant to be taken seriously. I was frustrated at having to weed through all that in the hubtivity when the posts were just phone book ads. I have seen lots of hubs come into question over the quality issue and felt that it was slipping through the cracks. It is bad enough to weed through them but to have to go in and report almost 500 hubs?
    
    Either way, she did add more info to her last hub so maybe she is working on upgrading the info in what she is posting. I guess time will tell what will happen.
    
    Bonnie

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    1. 80

       embitcaposted 17 years agoin reply to this

       If those hubs are bothering you that much, why oh why did you join pplive's fanclub? It seems like there would be a simple solution -- remove yourself from her (his?) fanclub and you won't see all of those lame hubs in your hubtivity.
       
       I just don't get you at all. You joined a hubber's fanclub and then immediately started making complaints about the person.

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17. 66

    Stacie Naczelnikposted 17 years ago

    This sucks. 
    
    See how that works?  I can be kind of rude and judgemental, but it is all okay...because I added a smilie.

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    1. 62

       Hope Alexanderposted 17 years agoin reply to this

       Now go do that on every thread you chance across on the boards, whether you have something constructive to add or not. Sometimes it's just fun to criticize and tear people down!
       
       (Plus it's good to dominate the boards, and teach newcomers who the bosses are around here. Don't want the rabble getting out of hand and forgetting their place.)
       
       Oh how jolly I am!

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18. 67

    Mishaposted 17 years ago

    Excuse me? You posted this on the forum that is dedicated to serious requests. I did not live in the times of real witch hunting, but I think this is pretty much how they did it. Because I lived under communism, and I know first hand how this stuff works...

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    1. 0

       daflaposted 17 years agoin reply to this

       Don't project your fears based on your past life experiences onto us.  I'm sorry you had to live through communism.  It must have been horrible.  I have friends here in my town who came from Ukraine and Russia, and my best friend's family escaped from Estonia in a boat in the middle of the night.  But there have to be rules, Misha.  Otherwise, there is anarchy.  Believe me, anarchy is worse than Communism.  I'm sorry for my remark, and I forgive yours.
       
       But I will say that the witchhunts were nothing like communism.  The witchhunts were religion based, and carried out by totally insane people.  O.K., on second thought, maybe a little like communism, except for the religion part.
       
       Bonnie, I do agree that you should not post a request in this forum if it is not serious.

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       1. 67

          Mishaposted 17 years agoin reply to this

          Please excuse my remark, too
          
          I'm not talking about not having any rules. I'm talking about bending the rules to fit a particular case. I do not think pplive hubs are the best ones around. But to the best of my knowledge those hubs are within the rules, albeit close to the boundaries...
          
          And where did you live under anarchy? It should have been interesting experience I think...

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    2. 69

       Bonnie Ramseyposted 17 years agoin reply to this

       Maybe I should have posted it in another topic. For that, I do apologize. As I said, I was frustrated at the time. But I still don't think it warrented name-calling for doing what HP asks us to do. I guess I can't win for losing tonight.
       
       Bonnie

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       1. 59

          Mark Knowlesposted 17 years agoin reply to this

          I don't think HP asks us to do what you have done here. I, like you, had looked at pplive's hubs and decided I couldn't flag them for breaking the TOS. But your first post in this thread was to ask to have the TOS changed so you could flag some hubs that offended you but were within the HP rules.
          
          And as I said earlier, I don't think you have a right to expect anything form a fellow hubber apart from common courtesy. This is not common courtesy.

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19. 88

    Marisa Wrightposted 17 years ago

    Did everybody get out the wrong side of the bed today?
    
    Having a look at PPLive's "phone book" Hubs, I have to admit I agree with Bonnie.  I suppose you could call it borderline spam because each one is about one single company, but it's not spam because PPLive has no connection with that company.  On the other hand, you can't call any of them a "review", because the information is so limited.  I can't see what investors would find useful in them - if you're a member of an online broking service, the service would have that info in their basic company profiles, so why would you bother?
    
    That said, it's obviously producing income or PP wouldn't go on building them - so someone must be getting some value out of them!

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20. 67

    elisabeth reidposted 17 years ago

    I think she's talking about THE Hubtivity page, not the one on her profile.  I use THE Hubtivity page quite often to see what's new...from everyone, not just those I'm a fan of.  If I just checked those, then I'd be severely limiting myself.

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21. 69

    Bonnie Ramseyposted 17 years ago

    Actually, I joined her fan club AFTER this thread, shortly after she joined mine. It's not like I hate the woman, for goodness sake! Just because I thought her hubs were low quality doesn't mean I hate her as a person! And I was seeing the hubs in my hubtivity BEFORE I joined her fan club. All new hubs and any other activity is posted there. I even see who joins what topic fan club and most of those people I have never heard of. You don't have to be a fan of anyone to see the hubtivity, it's just there.
    As I said in my last post, hopefully this is resolved now.
    
    Bonnie

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    1. 80

       embitcaposted 17 years agoin reply to this

       Ahhh, okay. I guess I only look at hubtivity on my own profile page. I didn't say you hated her as a person. No worries. When I first started reading this thread, first thing I did was click on pplive's profile and the first thing I saw was that you'd joined her fanclub. I'm sure you can understand why I thought that was odd LOL

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22. 69

    Bonnie Ramseyposted 17 years ago

    I do understand embitca. I am sure that did look a bit confusing. However, I know that we hubbers will have differences of opinion at times and it is just that, a difference of opinion. So we have to agree to disagree on some things and not let it cause us to totally lose a friendship. I have made many friends on HP and one, in particular, I had a very major difference of opinion with when I first joined. But I love her to death! LOL
    
    Mark,
    What I was referring to as to doing what HP asks us to do is to watch for TOS violations. And technically, they could have been flagged for low quality. As for common courtesy, am I the first person to ever come in and post a complaint about a hubber? NO, and I probably won't be the last. Granted, I was aggravated and I worded the thing wrong. I guess that would make me one of those things called a human since we all do make mistakes. Or at least I thought all of us did. As I said before, I am not the first person to bring these hubs into question.
    
    While I am sure they are raking in some great income, I have no clue about all the adsense ads and such because I don't use them. I only have 1 hub out of 70 that has ads. I didn't come here to make money. I joined HP because of the quality and integrity of the site. I stayed because I enjoyed the people here and it seemed as though we all had a comon goal of keeping a good quality writing site.
    
    I can not change the fact that I believed the hubs to be of low quality. I also can not change the fact that I made the mistake of posting my frustrations in the forum. From now on, I will just concentrate on my writing and leave the flagging and posting to others.
    
    Bonnie

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    1. 36

       beyondrichardposted 17 years agoin reply to this

       Dear Bonnie,
            It seems that you are so strict to others which is not good for you to communicate with others here. All men\women are created equal, they have their own inalienable rights to pursue their happiness, liberty and something else. People come here just for fun and enjoy themselves, they have their own lifestyles and writing-style, but you firstly should respect them.
           Some hubbers are very immature and not good at writing what kind of topics, for them, phone number ad may be a good choice. But sooner or later, they will find they should change their topics and something else, it depends on their maturity. Anyway, they can adjust themselves later and change their topics.
           You can criticize others, but you should respect them firstly, we are the same human beings, you have no privilege to ask or force somebodyto do or write somethings like you. Just imagine, if somebody reviews your hubs like this, can you tolerate he\she? I guess, you will be very, very angry.

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       1. 69

          Bonnie Ramseyposted 17 years agoin reply to this

          Well, up until this post, I have communicated fine with people in here. And I do try to respect other hubbers as well as the integrity of HP. That is why I mentioned these hubs. As I said, I am not the first person to bring this up but that is all beside the point now. I made a mistake by posting this here and I can not undo it. Apparently, mistakes are not allowed and since I am as much human as anyone else who has ever made a mistake, I will just accept that fact and move on.
          
          Bonnie

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23. 58

    darksideposted 17 years ago

    Bonnie's opinion is that these hubs are low quality. She's entitled to that opinion. She's allowed to flag them. Others have bragged and boasted of flagging in similar threads. What Bonnie has done is no worse.
    
    Perhaps a general rule is to flag them and move on. Not to start a thread about it, no matter how it's worded, as it's only going cause debate and division.

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    1. 67

       Mishaposted 17 years agoin reply to this

       Darkside, I think almost everybody agrees to Bonnie's opinion on pplive hubs quality, including pplive him/herself. This was not the point - try to reread the thread please if you did not see it.
       
       beyondrichard,
       I think everybody reached kind of agreement before you posted. I think your post does not add to the discussion, and serves only one purpose - to heat things up. I kindly ask you to stop right here.

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    2. STAFF

       pauldeedsposted 17 years agoin reply to this

       This is pretty good advice.  If you have a concern about the actions of a particular Hubber a discrete email to team@hubpages.com is probably a more politic way of getting an interpretation or spurring us into action.
       
       We, of course, prefer hubs that are unambiguously of high quality and we do our best to reward the authors that produce them consistently with high Hub and Hubber scores.  However, when it comes to remanding hubs for revision as spam, or low quality, etc. we try and follow fairly objective standards (that admittedly set the bar fairly low).  Perception of quality, usefulness, and originality is a very personal matter.  If we all went through and removed every hub that didn't meet our own standards there might not be any hubs left!
       
       Your Hubtivity stream can be customized to show or not show various classes of activity, and you can, of course, choose who you are a fan of.  Ideally you all would only be the fan of someone whose hubs, comments, and forum posts you were actually interested in reading.

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24. 58

    darksideposted 17 years ago

    beyondrichard, you have left a "[ quote=Bonnie Ramsey ]" (minus the two extra spaces) out of your post which has caused the rest of your post, and then my post to display smaller text.

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25. 71

    waynetposted 17 years ago

    Yawn!
    
    hubs are hubs and if the hubs are still published, then they must be ok right?
    
    ....So tired....but I'll have to try writing a phone book hub to see if I get flagged.....too late....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz I'm asleep!

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26. 69

    Bonnie Ramseyposted 17 years ago

    Paul,
    
    Thanks for your reply. I will take your advice and again, I will apologize for posting this thread. I was frustrated and didn't think about what I was actually requesting. I don't actually expect the rules to be changed to suit my opinion. I just felt I was doing what we have been asked to do by HP. Thanks again.
    
    Bonnie

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