Have you guys head the news story about the first ever man made life form? The DNA was mapped with a computer and implanted in a (I think dead) bacteria cell and sparked into life. I saw the report last night on the evening news. They were talking about the implications, from engineering life to absorb our CO2 emissions to the terrorist threat. The one thing they didn't go into (and the first thing I thought about) was the implication on religion. If the spark of life can be understood and even created by us then what of the need for a god creator?
Also what of the chances that life is teeming in the universe, so long as a planet has the right conditions and the time for the spark to happen there should be life of amazing diversity out there.
I would love to read what you guys think
I think it's totally cool. I just heard about it this morning on the radio and need to do some reading. But, interesting for sure. My first thought was not of implications on god/gods but of disease. If we create a synthetic disease, can we kill it when it runs amok?
Far as a creator goes, religion will do what it always does and just move the bar back. THE creator will be the one that imbued us with the ability be minor creators, all part of the plan. Might need a new religion to pop up to explain it because the further we get from origins of some of the popular religions of the day, the harder those old desert stories get to swallow, but something new will come along. They don't have departments in colleges and libraries devoted to "religious studies" for nothing.
What's more important than the potential of Biotech, is just how fast they could WIPE THE PLANET CLEAN of all life.
I shrugged this stuff off until I found out that it nearly happened already, several times!
There's a cracked.com article with the details, it's called "How a Biotech Company Almost Killed The World".
I'd be VERY careful what we create and put out there, we only have one planet right now
If you've read my "hubs," I predicted this years ago!
Yesterdays science fiction is tomorrows reality!
I am so happy to see it come to fruition!
Now if man can "get smart" and visualize/realize all the wonders this marvelous advancement can produce, it could and should be wonderful!
It poroves it takes a creator, to create life.
Just seems to me that a bunch of scientists standing around in a laboratory designing and creating life, is the definition of intelligent design.
I don't see religion folding anytime soon.
Besides we have already seen the science world lie once about creating life... "Miller-Urey". Thier atmospheric conditions were nothing near the premordial earth.
But yet they touted it, and in some cases still do, as though it was a fact that they had created life.
More info please. We know how long it took to get the facts of the last time straight.
Chalk one up for Mark. Or was it shades? Either way, good call.
Religion, along with the templeton foundation, love to point out gaps in science, every time one gap gets filled, they jsut go find another gap in science to gloat about, until science figures that one out too.
That's because in order to finally and totally disprove God you have to, well, disprove God.
You can't prove a negative. It doesn't work.
Scientist: "I have discovered the secret combination to start life from nothing!"
Believer: "Who made it possible for that to happen?"
I think it is amazing! However...don't take this the wrong way but it would seem that this would be in favor of the ID belief. That man was created.
Why is that? It is possible to make synthetic life, therefore there MUST have been a person created man and it could not have occurred without and evolution is a lie?
LOL I am sure some believers will go that way, but that is not exactly an "argument in favor" is it?
I didn't say anything about evolution being a lie. Don't get your panties all bunched up. lol I was just saying that the op particular argument would seem to favor the idea that man had been created.
Doesn't mean there are magical giant men hanging out in space watching over us with thunder bolts but if you can create life in a dish using as genome so complex that it could create life from no life then we get to move onto more complex questions about life.
Could life really have been created? The answer is without a doubt, yes it could have but was it is the question we cannot answer... yet anyways.
What I am more interested in and because I do insist that evolution is NOT a lie, is that if they can create life in a dish and we do evolve according to our environments then the possibility of populating an otherwise uninhabitable planet might be in the future.
edit- among other things too of course. Grow me some gills please.
Not seeing why it favors the idea that man was intentionally, intelligently created by an intelligent designer. Maybe you could explain why you think that is the case? Because it seems to me that you do not understand evolution.
Evolution could not have been started with a developmental destination pre-planned. If that is the case - then all we know and understand about evolution need to be discarded as wrong. Therefore the current "pinnacle" - us - was not planned and/or created, therefore there could not be an intelligent designer. Therefore ID is the religious nonsense that it always has been.
But I am interested in hearing your argument. I suppose if we did manage to manipulate evolution in a god-like fashion and deliberately create sentient life in the next few billion years..... but drawing the ID conclusion from this is a rather large stretch don't you think?
Interesting I think - this is not how life could have been intelligently designed, but it is how the quasi-theory itself was designed. A few 'christian' pseudo-scientists with all the elements made it up as a mimic of life, from the genome, or blueprint, that a few theologians (pseudo-philosophers) created.
Scientists have already created life forms before... and the results have been devastating......
There's some gal I've seen on the Hollywood shows my wife watches sometimes that looks like she has a face that's half cat, half salamander and half WTF! I wish I knew her name or I'd post pics. Makes Joan Rivers look like a Disney princess.
yep and Disney princesses are not all they are cracked up to be! (whatever that means)
Yes Yes I know who you are talking about I will brb
Is this the Freak show that you're thinking of?
http://www.google.com/images?q=Photo+of … CCYQsAQwAA
Yes, it appears that even cloning is not fool-proof. There are genetic flaws. I'm sure that this breakthrough could be as wonderful as it is devastating. In the wrong hands, we would have a new form of terrorism.
Once the technology exists to create products (humans) through scientific method there will be no need for procreation. The sterilization of humanity can proceed. That technology already exists and is slowly being implemented through the food and water supply. It will be a wonderful new world once they can eliminate the DNA of the miscreants. It may take a few generations but what is a couple of centuries to global control.
1. Excited to see where this leads
2. Scared that they have no clue what they have let out of the box
3. Scared they know exactly what they have and the "elite" will use it
4. 95% of the religionists will say this is what it says in the bible and it validates their beliefs (after a few arguments). The other 5% will say it is an abomination against the Lord that should be illegal. 50/50 chance they will win the argument - at least in the short term.
5. Excited to see where this leads.
Just can't make my mind up.........
That'll work. LOL - I trust people who think they can create new life forms about as much as the ones who think a God told them stuff into their head. I usually have 2 words for these guys.
I feel sort of the same about those guys trying to make a "controlled black hole." Totally cool, but... what if it swallows the f-ing planet?
Tell me about it - I live close to that and am waiting for a black hole to appear. Controlled? Like the way we control oil when it comes up out a well?
I agree/not sure that I agree
That is to say that Mark hit it...
I am not sure how I feel about this.
I know that this is exciting news; yet I worry that those that control our culture will use it to do harm. It is the nature of our beast to exert our power to further the influence of "everthing is mine because GOD said so" culture.
I know lots of people who already live a synthetic life - there is nothing new under the sun!
I'm firmly in the scared camp on this one...I just don't think we have an appropriate grasp on the ethical side of things. I can see this being used for bioweapons.
All scientists start out thinking they're going to save the world, but so much of the work of the best and brightest ends up being used for destruction or by the elite or just to serve greedy people's whims. *sigh* I think it *could* be a good thing, but that humanity in general won't let it be that way.
Like they said in Jurassic Park, "Just because we can do it, does that mean we SHOULD?"
Check out Margaret Atwood's Oryx and Crake. I just finished it last week, maybe that's why I'm so creeped out about this news.
When I was in school the idea of a "computer virus" was theoretical. We discussed the concept of self replicating programs, and not long after I left school,the creation of these viruses was a common advanced programming exercise.
No harm, they were just cool little self-replicating programs. The debate raged on about whether or not these self-replicating programs were, in fact, artificial life forms.
Regardless of which side of the debate you are on, most of us can agree that computer viruses are no longer "harmless self replicating programs".
Regardless of your religious views, or lack thereof ... the human race now has , or soon will, have the capacity to create never before seen bio-weapons.
Our fist foray into "synthetic life" ... computer viruses created an internet plague. I have little faith that biological synthetic life will be any better.
If God created Man by His Own Image, it works.
Man becomes God. hehehe
If Man created God from His Own Image, It works too.
God becomes Man. hehehe
It works anyways you puthest it.
there was a song that went like this :
Just a slob like one of us...
Just a stranger on the bus
Trying to make his way home
I'm hoping that man will create conscious life.
If he can do that, the deadly. primitive myth of this god thing should disappear and be replaced by reason and logic.
Why would it disappear Quark?
Creating life is just one of Gods things.... create all from nothing.
Then we'll talk.
The question would be: Why would it not disappear?
There's nothing special about life in the universe.
If "simple" man can make it, it puts man on the same level as the fairytale god...and the creation of conscious life would mean that there is nothing that conscious, thinking, imaginative, curious man cannot perform.....what would be the need of mythical god/s to lean on when we can do it all ourselves...independently!
The god concept would become just a laughable memory of primitive insecurity.
problem is, man, being the earths prime predator, would most likely find another reason to destroy himself.
The god concept was doing a good job, but once gone, I'm sure man would find another reason to finish the job.
Again.,.. your talking about a lab and scientists... not spontainious life from organic matter. Niether are you talking about the creation of matter and mass from nothing...
so I don't see a threat to God.
I think all you non-believers are just a lil too excited about this, and cannot keep the reality of it straight. As I stated earlier... I would like more info on it.
Alot has been claimed by science, only to be proved to be embellished or exagerated.... if not an out and out lie. So I will wait to see what comes of it... and out in regards to it also.
lolol...Life is life my friend....
Regardless if it is created by serendipity or man.
It will be made of the "original" stuff of the universe.
This god thing you imagine and only offer opinions of, has no relevance in anything but your imagination.
I live in a "real" world which stimulates me.
My response, in this case is utilizing all the wisdom I've gained in this life to make my life enjoyable and hope that the future may produce a species of human being that is no longer fearful, ignorant and dependant upon myth to offer it solace in it's time of need.
At this moment in our evolutioin we are pitifully immature.
How are we supposed to make something out of nothing? We are material beings, we are something... whatever we make comes from something - us.
You'll never find something like that because it contradicts logic. Whatever you're expecting to disprove God will never happen.
Pls enlighten me. I don't think you can.
What is this god thing you mentioned?
It is not defined as being "fact" in scripture.
It is referred to, but leaves what "it" is up to your imagination.
Soooo, pls helpme. What is "it" you are talking about not being able to disprove?
If you can't do this, I'm afraid I'll just have to add you to my ever growing list of those who are not credible.
Pls go for it....make me look silly. I challenge ya! :-)
Well everything came from nowhere if time and space are as we imagine it to be - and it is only that (usual) thinking that requires a beginning and looks forward to an end.
If we 'create' life from inert matter then maybe one day we can create a god, or would we be god ?? Hmmmmmm
You don't even have to quote God.
I mean you're the father of your children, aren't you ?
God is not in bed with our wives. (... I hope...)
If life ever disappears, which it won't, it'll just change from "us", it'll be due to our doings.
Maybe the plan is to create humanish beings who are programmed to work long hours every day for next to nothing, programmed to think Bush is a good guy and Walmart the place to buy stuff. Then they can implant a ridiculous myth in their monocellular brain so that every sunday they can go and worship their c-r-e-a-t-o-r in a big house. Save the trouble of pretending human rights then I guess.
There's a metaphysics thought exercise that goes something along the lines of:
Assume all the technology you need exists, and you create a computer simulated world complete with terrain, people, weather, everything. The people in your world coexist, make lives, marry, have children, occupy different jobs, even homelessness, they get sick, die, etc. It's a very fancy program.
In the course of running, your computer program's people develop the ability to create computers and computer programs, one of which is a program that simulates a realistic world with people and weather and everything just like your program.
That world develops a computer program too, etc.
1. What does that make you?
2. How do you know you aren't living in a simulation?
3. How far away, how many simulations, might you (we) be from the original creator?
4. Is there an original creator?
I watched a movie based on that theory... it was quite interesting. The Actor who plays Goren, the cop from Law and Order, was in it. He played a pscho, wasn't bad.
Yeah, sci-fi authors have been messing with this stuff for a long time. It's sort of in the ball park with the Turing Machine and the Chinese Room Experiment. I love that kind of stuff.
It was a good movie... the creator of the program would enter it and go on serial killing sprees in a mid fifties or so era... then the wife of the killer scientist guy fell for one of the guys in the comp prog, and brought him back to her world after they killed her husband...
But that left me wondering... would not mean her world was also a program....
I don't know... but good flik anyways.
Far out man !
metaphysics is a name you give to secrets unveiled.
All is simulation of a non expressible reality.
hehehe. Yes I've uncorked another bottle.
quoting quark :
I'm hoping that man will create conscious life.
If he can do that, the deadly. primitive myth of this god thing should disappear and be replaced by reason and logic.
Man ! Man creates conscious life every time he makes a child man !
We just don't stop creating conscious life and then...
we achieve an educational process that turns it into unconscious life...
I like, I like, I like - bring 'em in conscious n' then dumb 'em down as fast as you can - the name of the game on planet Earth!
Here I always thought Joe Biden and Bill Maher were the first forms of synthetic life!
2010 is good year for science. CERN's LHC is successful and now synthetic life.
And this is in support to ID ? *beats me*
atleast it's clear t hat life can't be created in a hocus-focus hogward magic religious way.
Some would say that this is not really synthetic life. That in fact it is "reprogramming a computer as opposed to building one from scratch".
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home … 966474.cms
Neither will the Koran. Nice, huh? Good luck with that.
Lol, really ?
what's left in bible to disprove anyway
All of it.
In particular I'd dare anyone to disprove Genesis 1:1.
Which is, I suppose, the intent of this thread, even?
And it ain't workin' yet.
I would love to see you prove any of it. LOLOLOLOL
Not really, 7 days creation is myth and if you want to try proving it then try with all your favorite creationism pseudo-scientists to prove it. In between show me the noah's ark.
Genesis 1:1 is also story unless it is proved, is there proof for it from your side ? It's easy to manipulate words and play with it but when it comes to proof brain cells starts to shake like haiti quake.
All of it is for your satisfaction, look around it is falling.
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