Been here about a week ..wrote 4 hubs .. havent done any promotion type activities yet because im still learning about that .. and of course i've learned by observation, that when we first write a hub we get this hit of traffic .. like ive never seen before .. 80, 100 ,200 visits ..and im thinking " this is cool " and then of course it all stops like someone just turned off the tap.
A hubber kindly explained to me that this sudden hit, is because a fresh hub is featured somewhere on a new hubs directory , something that hub pages admin does, but just for two or three days.
So sadly ive realised that writing the article is the easy part. Now you gotta promote - promote - promote . Ok, if thats the way the world is .. thats the way it is .. but what id like to know is , how much time do folks, successful hubbers, who know how to get traffic, spend promoting each of the hubs they write, compared to the time they spend writing their hub.
Because obviously that's going to impact on my daily routine. Its going to be a cost in time. Time that becomes unavailable for writing new hubs. This is kind of like the " fine print " in the contract you don't find out about until after you've bought in.
So is it hours, days, weeks ? do you give each hub a good shot of promotion time, say a few days of concentrated effort, and thereafter leave it alone for ever, allowing the back links to do their work ? or do you continue to drip feed - each hub you write - with back links forever ?
The whole thing becomes even more complicated when you read this hub, in which the author says back links are going out fashion anyways .. heres the link to that very interesting discussion http://hubpages.com/hub/SEO-Google-and-Backlinks . Its a look into the future, so back links are safe for now
Id be pleased to get some comments, feedback so i know what to expect .. and perhaps some other new folks are wondering about this too .. thanks
it also raises the question which is valid i think -
if your going to spend all that time promoting each and every hub you write - from a self interest point of view, wouldn't that time be better spent promoting your own website or blog ?
Some very successful Hubbers, like Relache, don't worry about promotion. The great thing about Hubs is that they do, eventually, achieve a good page rank all by themselves - you just have to be patient, because it'll take a few months.
You'll find lots of advice from Hubbers like Misha and Mark Knowles about promotion - but if you read carefully, you'll discover they're promoting their websites, not their Hubs. They promote their Hubs using RSS feeds or Twitter rather than individually, because promoting all your Hubs one by one is tedious and not that time-efficient.
In fact if you look around, you'll find a lot of people are using Hubs to do the promotion for their own websites or blogs, rather than the other way around.
I wouldnt call myself an experienced hubber either but one that has learned a bit since i joined.After each hub i post my new hubs url on a couple of blogging sites i have and on facebook and twitter and to be honest this usually works quite well for me!
You missed a part out.
Yes the 'fresh' content effect often puts you right up there, and then straight down to the bottom of the pile somewhere.
Often however, when Google decides where it wants to put you, it will shove you somewhere 'right up there' again
Give it a couple of weeks. Are you certain that search engines were your traffic source then? And not internal hubpages traffic?
Read some of Misha's hubs on marketing, they are really helpful. I guess the more time you spend promoting your hubs the better.
From what I hear its best to get targeted traffic, that is specific to your niche, because social traffic alone is not going to help you reach your goal of earning money.
So even though people use bookmarking sites like Digg and Delicious, the visitors are usually just looky loo's.
Also many hubbers are using Keyword Academy to learn how to do proper keyword research so that they can receive targeted traffic from the search engines.
I guess the more time you put into marketing the better. The key is to learn as much as you can and then implement the strategies on a daily basis. If you do not have the time to do it you can always outsource it.
I wouldn't call myself an experienced hubber. Maybe a hubber who jumped in and just tries stuff as I go!
However I never promote. For my 115 hubs I may have about 30 backlinks, if that. I tweet some if I remember, but usually I forget about it for a week.
All I do is write. I'm getting about 800 views a day right now and it keeps increasing.
From what I've learned here, the older a hub is the more traffic google will send it (if it's good and has not too high competition of course.)
Sure backlinks might speed up the process. But I'd rather have 300 hubs that start hitting the jackpot in a year rather than 30 hubs that take off right now.
The only exception being Misha, who has only a handful of hubs and is making tons of cash off them because he is a well learned SEO.
The moral of the story: Unless you know how to backlink fast and well, as well as picking great niches, hobbling along and just writing is fine!
I tend to agree with this.
You might want to start where you are strong or where your strengths are.
But continue to improve and learn everything that you need to be a success here in hubpages and everywhere else.
And my most important advice, do what you enjoy and enjoy what you do.
thanks Wrylilt - the idea of "just writing " appeals to me too . Its the fun creative part, though almost everyone says you have to market and promote.
thank you too Research Analyst ... interestingly your response is the opposite to Wrylilt. and your comments on social traffic were useful too
I write my hub and then I tweet it, post it on facebook, then go to Red Gage and write a short blerb there and link it back to hubpages, do the same with reddit, digg, blogger, and shesaid - and send it to my followers. That probably takes me an extra 20 or so minutes and I don't know for sure that that is helping - I keep learning new things all the time!
Good luck on hubpages and don't stress about it - just write and follow some of the great guidelines by some of the better hubbers on here and you'll be great, you'll be swell!
I would also recommend taking a day or two in the week to use for nothing but promotional activities of one sort or another, comments, visiting other Hubs. Time management will help prevent burnout. Welcome to HubPages.
Thanks akirchener for those comments and encouragement - and for listing where you post - You say you dont know if it is helping ? How can you know ? and why don’t you know now ? Is it adding to your traffic do you think ?
And thanks Dame Scribe, for putting a time fram on it. That's all we can do. Give some allocated time - see what happens.
I spend almost none. My earnings are minimal, but they tend to creep up slowly anyway. Promoting is not a priority for me right now.
I don;t promote my hubs once they are written and then shared after publication I do nothing.
its panning out there are people who don't promote at all, in fact they choose not to
and there are folks who say promotion is a must, if you want traffic and want to earn from your writing, sooner rather than later.
I post my hub on digg, zimbio, facebook, and twitter. If the topic fits on one of my blogs, I write up a short blog post directing traffic to the hub. I cross promote on my other pages on a similar topic whenever possible. That's about it. Then I move on to the next...
Ive just found Misha's take on the subject on a hub of his. Only read a small part, but can tell he's had a lot of experience, plus its part of a series he's written, so there will be lots of info.
As i've said, i have not read a lot yet, so yet to see where Misha stands on the subject. To promote or not - and if so .. how ?
Thought id pass on the link here because it i wasn't able to find it by directly searching Misha. All that did was bring up comments on Misha. I had to wait until someone provided a link in their comments. So if your looking too, here's the link.
Would appreciate comments on Misha's ideas when you have read his hub.
http://hubpages.com/hub/Backlink-Tool-O … or-Writers
Ill start off
Misha's first point is that ..
1.keyword research is vital if you want to make money from your hubs – it’s the foundation of everything you do
The basic purpose of Keyword research is pretty clear I think - see if you can find keywords with a good no. of searches, but not too much competition, not easy to do, but possible.
2. given Misha has a distinctly commercial approach, he then comes down heavily in favor of backlinks. For $5.00 a month Anglea will send you a fresh list every month of 30 high PR sites you can join and put links in your bio. Note he says " in your bio ". He doesn't actually say he makes comments at these sites, but i guess he does.
To help you automate the process you can buy Roboform for $30.00 and SEO link dominator will further automate the process for you, and that’s only $77.00. Hmmm. .. definitely sounds like Misha is commited to back links.
More to come .. would anyone else like to comment. I'm doing this to learn what successful marketers do, then ill make up my mind to what extent it's for me or not. Id like nothing better than to write about what interests me, for the pleasure of it, but i have to think about earning to.
The two key points to glean from this
1. keyword research is the foundation of everything, if you want to earn
2. back links .. yes ..do them
As noted above some people choose to do no back linking at all, so there's all points of view on this. There's even a debate that back links don't work or are becoming less relevant. Somehow i doubt that, and it would depend on the quality and the " relevance " of the back link.
I don't consider a hub or website independent of promotion or link exchanges. To me web content without promotion is not reaching its full potential - and why wouldn't you want to max out the income potential of content.
So I write a hub and I promote. Then I put it in rotation for more promotion. The fact is I never stop promoting content. For that reason, I don't believe in the concept of evergreen content. Content needs to be refreshed, copy updated for changes in slang, and bolstered if under attack by competition.
Yes the more content you have to watch, the harder you work. But after a while if you've set up your links right, one update should ripple through a bunch of content.
I'm still updating, refreshing and protecting copy I wrote almost 10 years ago - and it's still making me $$$!
Marissa I'm actually promoting my hubs like crazy. I have maybe 25 sites to do that now. HP is an amazing traffic magnet and not to be dismissed. The more I work with it, and promote it the more I'm floored by it. Yes I have another 50 or so sites that aren't linked to HP in anyway. But I don't use HP to promote those sites, it's the other way around for me. And I'm planning on doing ALOT more.
One of the best way to promote your hubs and still enjoy your writing hobby is re-write again, write using another angle, write a new short hubs with the same topic and publish it in Article directory.
Several recommended article directory like ezinearticle, goarticle, articlebase, buzzel etc. will give significant impact on your hubs.
thanks for dropping by and contributing - your fame proceeds you so i am honored. Some interesting points you make - things i hadn't come across before or considered, like content is never finished and needs to be refreshed and content being " bolstered if under attack " Thats an interesting one. If you come by again can you say a little more about that ?
If set up right, one update "should ripple through a bunch of content " sounds good. I look forward to the day.
Still " protecting " copy written years ago, reinforces the " bolstering " idea.
And thanks for quantifying with some numbers too. A helpful contribution and much appreciated.
and thank you too Andy for your note about about re purposing content.
I tried Ezine articles, expecting a nice boost in traffic from what everybody said, and i got 2 readers one day, three another, one on another, etc .. and out of 130 or so readers over 5 articles, i had 4 click throughs to my websites , and three articles republished somewhere else, i know not where, with not much effect on traffic to my websites.
So i'm wondering what the fuss is about over AE and why i bothered with the creative effort ? maybe EA works for some types of content and not others ?
Does anyone else have experiences to relate about Ezine Articles ?
Kiigeorge, there are two reasons for getting backlinks. One is so real people can click on them - but that's not the main reason.
You want backlinks because Google judges the value of a site by the number of other sites that link to it. That's why there's a big industry in offering backlinks on dummy blogs no one ever reads - what matters is having the link.
So you can't judge the success of posting articles on EA by whether traffic came directly from EA. You judge the success by whether your placement on Google improves.
The principle of EA is that you write an article with links in it, which bloggers are allowed to use on their blogs. So in theory, you don't get just one link from EA, you get hundreds or thousands. Unfortunately these days, bloggers often strip out your links before posting them on their blog so EA has less value than it used to.
thanks Marissa - yes im not impressed by ezine articles so far,
Stripping out your links does not sound like fun - and with the proliferation of article spinners out there, some could take a good original article and spin it into another form. I cant see any defense against that.
I also don't understand why Google doesn't recognize a dummy blog ?
Back to your original question, I write a hub and then write a short synopsis of it on many different sites and link it back to my original hub. It is rather time consuming (actually only an extra 20-30 minutes for at least 7 or 8 sites) although I have just built that in to my time writing a hub. I feel like if I do promote it, I've done all I can do and then I'm personally satisfied that I did my best on that particular hub....then I go on to the next one and start all over!
Good luck to you figuring out your 'winning formula'. I think everyone has their own that works for them. A good way to check it all out too is to check your stats - i.e. what words or phrases drove traffic to the hub and from what source and to check your traffic from which sources. Then you'll know which ones you absolutely 'should' stick with and which ones you can sometimes feel 'not so bad' if you don't link to 'every time'.
thanks akirchner for those very useful comments - so great that people like you are sharing, and if course everyone is learning who comes by, newbies and others.
So how do we get that depth of info yo speak of ? " what words or phrases drove traffic to the hub and from what source and to check your traffic from which sources "
i havnt seen that. Do we add Google analytics ?
I see online promotion as waves of effort, the more you do, the more sand you shift.
I spend an hour or two everyday now promoting my best hubpages, because I want them ranked right up there, the weaker ones I see them as a challenge to do after I've really gave a good backlink strategy time to make my best hubpages shine much much more.
I always plan well in advance where and when I m going to promote each backlink and think carefully how it might impact any others linked to them.....
Time goes at the click of your fingers, so just do the best and not necessarily hope for the best, but expect the best!
when you have the experience and know what your doing, planning ahead where your gonna put things, sounds like a good idea.
and learning to be efficient with time - its the most valuable commodity we have, especially as your content grows.
That's what i trying to think about now. I have lots of ideas about what id like to try, but i'm trying to think about strategizing my time, before i dive right in and waste a lot of time again,
I don't promote very much. I tweet i and put it on Facebook, but seldom bother with anything else. If I have an appropriate article somewhere else, I may put in a link in one direction or the other or rarely both ways.
I would definitely advise being very careful about the schemes you will sometimes find people talking about. Mother Google does not like it her children try to fool her.
I have many articles that have reached top three SERP without any more promotion than Tweeting and some that got there with no promotion at all. I do have appx 2500 rss subscribers and 7,000 daily visitors at that site, so obviously that is some promotion all by itself. Success begets success - unfair, but true.
The reality is that cream rises by itself - it just needs some initial exposure. Of course it really has to be cream, not stale milk. And even then, a little luck can sure help.
Not everyone can write cream - or even milk. Too many people think it is all about promotion and keywords. Sure, that all helps, but if you can't at least create something like milk or cream, you are not going to make much. Cruel truth, sorry.
My best advice is to worry much more about writing well enough to cause a reader to Tweet it etc. That's what can get you top SERP and useful traffic.
yes ive been reading your posts elsewhere and you are right to keep reminding us about the importance of quality. Thanks for the figures also. Quantitative figures are always great to read.
2500 RSS feeds sounds most impressive as does 7000 daily visitors. Wow.
I tried tweeting months ago and realized it wasn't hard to build up so called followers, but i also saw everyone was busy tweeting one another, but no one was actually reading each others tweets, or very rarely. Very strange sort of communication. Like talking to the air.
I was gonna run and experiment where i told the whole community to just .. .!@*7%$! off .. or words to that effect ..maybe not as obvious as that, hide it just a bit, but mean the same thing .. to see if anyone actually read it . I didn't do it.
Have you ever tried it or know someone who did ?
i suspect even if the community read it ..they just ignore it and blithely write yet another inane tweet
Actually, no - those are NOT impressive figures. They are very low end. I mentioned them to qualify the "no promotion" statement. It's not quite NO promotion if each of those people had a shot at seeing the posts.
But that is still a very small number. The articles took off because they hit some sweet spot.
Misha talks about searching for those sweet spots. I don't do that, but it plainly is another approach.
On the tweeting:
Not my experience. But I am selective about who I follow - very selective. So I DO read what they tweet.
ok - i guess thats the way to do it then .. spend a lot of time at it ?
No, I do not. One or two tweets per day and half an hour, sometimes more, reading others tweets.
Traffic doesn't come from Twitter. Google is where traffic comes from. Twitter, SU, whatever is just priming the pump. If real people read you and like what they read, they do the rest. That's why content is important. You can do it with junk, but you will need a lot of it and Google will cut you out of the game if you take it too far or get too involved in scheming.
If you want to play games, play games. It looks like hard work to me, much harder than just writing good stuff.
Of course you can do both if you have the energy for it. Some people do very well at that.
I have never been good at marketing my writing! I have had many blogs for years that never get hits. I promote on my twitter site, my Facebook page, and I spread the word to all my friends. I'm going to start doing more research on marketing my writing. It's very important to me that my work at least has the opportunity to be read.
i just been here for about 3 weeks now (started writing for about 2 months now). from what i can say, i just choose a selected promotion sites instead of all.
i spend to promote my sites in less than 5 different places and yes the return is fine. however, i do not focus on promoting itself. i always believe that true and good articles will win it's people and readers.
like what Pcunix said, i get most of my readers from google and hubers themselves. promoting is just a way of telling people "hey check this out". here is where you promote yourself more than promoting that particular hub.
i tested in a different website. with promotion itself, i gain like 30-50 readers within a few hours compared to totally not promoting at all.
the difference is there but i think we should promote (to a certain level) of our hubs. well just my point of view though.
wish you good luck in promoting and writing!
thank you Nicregi
excellent post in my opinion. Gaining 30 to 50 readers compared to not promoting at all - is a very good example, and you also point out this has to be backed up by good content.
Thank's for stopping by and taking the time to tell your story
ive just read a little bit of additional wisdom.
Build a little bit each day and all those little bits will add up to something significant and worthwhile.
Its the same idea as the "build a wall story" which is a story Will Smith related, as well as many others, and it goes like this,
so you wanna build a wall ?
ok ..don't start thinking about the meanest baddest wall anyone could ever build. Just start laying bricks, a few each day, and think about laying each brick just as well as you can, a few each day if that's all youv'e got time for, but lay them every day .. day after day ..
and pretty soon you'll have your meanest baddest wall !
its a nice story
Thank you for your reply back. I love to see my traffic grow by the days (who doesn't right?) but I believe the story of build is the best way to describe it.
It takes time and effort to build something. So be patience and we will just be fine.
*ps: i wish to build Great Wall of China...joking
Have a great day!
I have been fortunate that many of my hubs have acheived a good page rank in time without any promotion. However I do tend to backlink those with high paying keywords, wich I found has helped a lot with traffic and earnings just lately. It usually takes me a week to backlink one hub well. However some hubbers as mentioned already, manage very well without the need to promote their hubs at all.
and thanks for your comments. You have confirmed for us that your back link activities do bring you more traffic. and its nice to hear you can get a high page rank too without much promotion. Does it take long ?
If you come back can you comment on " it takes me a week to back link one hub well " is that a solid week of work ?
thanks again for adding your experience
I don't really sweat it too much. I put in backlinks and occasionally promote a few hubs on forums, that's it. Once you get a following, people will keep coming back to read you. I don't make promoting my writing my whole life, I just enjoy it.
I spend maybe 30 minutes promoting my hubs and that is it. I don't want to spend most of my time promoting hubs because I try to focus more on keywords. Keywords are the foundation to getting traffic. You can promote 1 hub every single day and it wouldn't be as beneficial to getting organic traffic from the search engines. I rather the person come to me rather than me going to get the traffic because you will convert better in revenue this way.
yes good point - got to get a balance ..
too much time spent promoting could be a yoke around our necks leaving little time for the creative fun stuff
especially as your content builds - there's got to be a balance .
thats what i'm thinking about now..
how one evolves a useful balance. trying to have a concept of how it all works
and hopefully how it can still be creative, not drudgery
I love to read all this information. It is impressive. At the moment i am writing for pure pleasure, but who knows one day all this information may click into place, and i may start earning....... I think it is truly wonderful to be able to understand how all this works and make money too... Ryanket, Misha.... lots of others, are cool, and it is good to know threreis lots of help out there.
I wanted to promote my hubs 24 x 7
But not enough time to do that
Anyway it is 24 x 7 online...
by john.maco 8 years ago
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