I am convinced that there is plenty of dust to settle...

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  1. profile image0
    ryankettposted 12 years ago

    Firstly, let me apologise for not remaining the slightest bit calm a couple of days ago. Many of you deserve major credit for the composure that you have shown, there are too many people to list but the list would certainly include Nelle Hoxie and Sunforged amongst numerous others. At least I didn't resort to sounding the death knell or being overly critical of the platform, this is only the start of a whirlwind and nobody knows how it will end up. Yes it looks to have ripped the roof off, but a few hundred gold bullion bars could land in the garden before the wind stops blowing.

    Secondly, don't reply with "I am sick of reading about Google", if you can't avoid clicking on a topic that you are not interested in reading then may I suggest an appointment with your local psychiatrist.

    I have had a fair bit of time to reflect on the algorithm changes, and a few things strike me as suggesting that there are major tweaks to be made before Google dare roll this out across the globe. I am actually surprised that they chose to experiment in the United States, you would have thought that a smaller and subsequently much less lucrative region of the world would have been a good starting point. Ireland or New Zealand perhaps, with all due respect to natives of those countries (there are just far less people to upset, although I'm sure that Irish affiliate marketers could do without a loss of income right now).

    I have been messing around a hell of a lot on Google, and whilst many of you have, I personally witnessed this:

    - Irrelevant forum topics from 2002 or 1998 making the top page for long string searches ahead of content farms, blogs and even national newspapers.
    - For numerous long string searches it was almost impossible to find anything dated 2011 on the first 10 pages of results, and in some cases even difficult when typing 2011 at the end of a search phrase. I doubt that Google wants to be seen to be serving up old news when it can easily be proven that 'new news' exists.
    - eHow and Squidoo ranking very well for numerous search competitive search terms. Yes I know that Squidoo has been affected, but it seems that Google have been kinder to them as a result of their previous clean up efforts.

    I am not necesarily saying that tweaks will improve Hubpages rankings, but I am convinced that major tweaks are necessary and will happen. I am also confident that eHow have survived for a logical reason, and I hope that the reason is one which will Google will share freely with other institutions. In fact, I hope that Google come out with some hard facts about just why eHow are ranking, that gives the site a clear basis from which to work.

    As for the lady who claimed that Google were ranking her duplicate content above her Hubpages, I am frankly blown away by that, if true that really takes the biscuit. I would sincerely hope that Google are aware of this happening, with the number of PHD's that they have this should be the first thing rectified with the algorithm.

    That's it, 24 hour ban just ended, a days worth of crap off of my chest smile

    1. canadawest99 profile image59
      canadawest99posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Your frustration is understandable but I think it is exacerbated by the fact you expect to make a lifetime stable primary income online and that is just never going to happen.  This game (and yes its a game) is changing every single day and will never be stable.  After you put in a bunch of work, the powers that be will just change the rules and slap us back.

      Start diversifying your business to something that doesn't have google as a master, treat IM as a side income at best and you will be able to survive these changes much easier.

      1. profile image0
        ryankettposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        No, I have never expected this income to be "stable", I just wasn't ready for the slap. I had identified four months ago that I needed to diversify, but the slap came too soon. I don't actually desire a stable income, I love the buzz associated with self-employment, working for precisely the same hours each week earning precisely the same amount of money each week is a culture that bores me. Offline work is just as unstable and uncertain, my old firm ruled by fear and the creation of paranoia, the threat of job losses was a constant reminder - to be honest I feel more stable and secure as a free man.

        There is absolutely no reason why somebody cannot make a living online (that applies to all of you), and offline I am actually in a great position for somebody of my age. For the past four months I made more money than I ever have in total honesty, and I will still make enough to pay the bills for the next few months.

        Only I am now seeing this setback as the best thing that could have happened to me. For the first time the need to 'diversify' has jumped out of the textbooks and hit my firmly on the backside. They say that you can't beat practical experience smile Ultimately I have building off-site for 6 months, but will probably do more work in the next 4 weeks than was achieved in the last 24 weeks.

        Yes this has been a tough lesson, but I look up to one or two people who have learnt this lesson on numerous occassions. The Nelle Hoxie story being the best example.

        I have enough money to last me 6 months with zero earnings if I live a simple life. Do I get an offline job earning some middle aged man a nice fat annual bonus? Nah. That would be the easy way out. I will speculate and build, if it doesn't work out I will have learnt more. I am 25 years old, learning fast, I wouldn't want to stifle myself with the 9-5.

        That would sound like a risk, but I treat life as a "game", like the Weakest Link to be precise. I am clever enough to 'bank' on the highs, I have built up a pension fund over the past few years, I will always be walking away with something wink

        So definitely not down and out. Whilst the intention of this thread was not to talk about myself, instead about Hubpages as per the OP, I hope that there are others out there with the same make up and who are looking at this situation in an equally positive light. There are little people coming out of this change very well, all that was necessary in this instance was a diverse range of different websites in different formats and in varied niches.

        We should all be looking to spread our eggs to be honest, I will soon have a news site which I hope to get into Google News, a few sales sites utilising my successful Hubpages keywords, 15 sites in fact. My next move is to end a reliance on content farms, but I may not neccessarily stop using them entirely - I have unaffected pages. I realise that this is a fast moving game, hence the reason I have just employed a team of writers on oDesk, I'm up for the challenge, but you are right in what you say - I need to be quicker and I need to diversify. That isn't a barrier to success, that is the key to success, having that reiterated is a huge positive.

        1. bgamall profile image72
          bgamallposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          There already is too much money gravitating to the top without Google helping it happen. Pretty soon people won't care about clicking on adwords because they have no money to spend.

        2. Barbara Kay profile image75
          Barbara Kayposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          If you are just 25, you could end-up making a fortune in the end if you keep working at it. As quickly as the web changes, I think being diverse is a good idea anyway.

    2. lrohner profile image68
      lrohnerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      This: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c … 2011-2.DTL

      And glad to see you've leveled out. Hope you spent some quality time today with Coco and the new Mrs. Kett. smile

      1. profile image0
        ryankettposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Oh we did, we went to a fantastic small seaside town with the puglet today. It's around 23 miles away from my home and I would like to live there, so saving for the deposit begins now!!




    3. bgamall profile image72
      bgamallposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Google has a conflict. Older domains are worth more. However, older domains often produce older material. Some of this is evergreen and that is good. Some of this is not evergreen and is dated. That is another conundrum of search.

      1. Barbara Kay profile image75
        Barbara Kayposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        My website is 10 years old and they knocked it down anyways. I'm not sure if it's age the are going for or what.

  2. profile image0
    Nelle Hoxieposted 12 years ago

    Welcome Back.

    Perhaps G is telling us that they like us to have our own sites and that's why snakebaby's blog is doing so well.

    I'm still seeing large quality sites above me in the rankings for my keywords. Perhaps its the niches.

    For now I'm resisting the urge to say good or bad, right or wrong, or even to understand - I'm just attempting to endure.

    But until Google calms down and HubPages announces their strategy (so I know what format of content they want going forward) I'm not making any new hubs.

    I'll work on my own stuff. And I have to admit my new site content is being indexed within an hour and ranking well, so some stuff is okay.

    1. David 470 profile image82
      David 470posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I do not think I am going to work on any new hubs either. Waiting for an application response from another site, and I am going to try and find as many sites that have revenue sharing and/or upfront payments as possible.

      From my relatively short time here at hubpages, and a few other article directories, I see that diversification and versatility is very important.

      1. profile image0
        ryankettposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        I suspect that Nelle would encourage you to build your own sites rather than diversifying across revenue sharing platforms.

        Pretty much every content farm on the net has been hit, she is saying that independant websites may benefit from the changes. Excerting effort on InfoBarrel instead of Hubpages isn't going to solve the problem, if you are not going to spread your horizons past revenue sharing then you might as well just stay on Hubpages.

        1. David 470 profile image82
          David 470posted 12 years agoin reply to this

          I was not just referring to content farms. The site I applied for is NOT a content farm thankfully. See reply below.

          1. profile image0
            ryankettposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            It may not have been hit but to me it is still a content farm. They are building up as much content as possible in order to build advertising revenues. That is a content farm. It may be a higher quality content farm, but still a content farm nonetheless smile I know that you are referring to Brighthub.

            What you want is to build your own Alexa Top 10,000 website, with huge monthly revenues, so that one day you can sell it for $200k and invest in a bricks and mortar business. A small bar, for example. Stop building up huge businesses for other people in return for a couple of beers a time, and start the process of building up your own business, maybe even by paying people a couple of beers a time wink

    2. profile image0
      ryankettposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I too have been working on new sites smile

      10 long blog posts yesterday in a specific niche, a bit of SEO, I have got a few great writers on oDesk helping me with one or two projects so that I can pick up the pace a little.

      I am not publishing any more hubs just yet either. In fact, I may trim my portfolio to 500 in the future and then work on improving the quality of all of those that remain.

      In fact, I will lose anything which is never going to be profitable and anything which isn't evergreen. That will make me much more efficient.

      I do believe that I can squeeze another half decent Xmas out of my portfolio even if the situation doesn't change, although I do believe that things will improve at least a little.

      1. David 470 profile image82
        David 470posted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Ryankett, have you ever written for brighthub.com before? I possibly may be writing there soon. They pay upfront and provide revenue sharing. Its more strict, possibly stricter than infobarrel. However, I never had problems getting articles accepted at infobarrel, but it did not require an application.

        Passive income is good, but upfront payments can also be good in accordance with building passive income.

        I myself am going to throw away a lot of my hubs. Some that were made in my super noob days at hubpages last year.

        1. profile image0
          ryankettposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          No, I am moving away from any revenue sharing platforms and onto my own sites.

          I want assets with a saleable value, that is the only way that I can create an exit route.

          These events have told me that the need to diversify is very real, so I now believe that creating your exit plan is also a very real principle.

          Ultimately I want a network of profitable websites, which can one day be sold off as one entire entity. I don't want a lifelong career online, I want to walk away some time.

          1. Bill Manning profile image65
            Bill Manningposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Really, you don't want to work online forever? I can't see how any job can be better than working at home online.

            You can move anywhere you want, be on a Hawaiian vacation and still be making money.

            Working online has been a dream come true and I hope it's the only one I ever have again. smile

            1. profile image0
              Nelle Hoxieposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              You and me both. Although I am enjoying the new website being linked to a local economy. It's still a website with ads. And if I go on vacation, it will still make money. I tink Ryan's plan is to sell them off and RETIRE young.

  3. Jule Romans profile image96
    Jule Romansposted 12 years ago

    Thanks for remarking on the "I am sick of this" comments. I agree- If you aren't interested, don't read the thread. Why barge in and say something negative?

    I also appreciate reading about everyone's reactions. It helps me understand more about what is going on.

    My enthusiasm for online writing has been inconsistent. I am losing it even more, now. Ah, well.

  4. profile image0
    Nelle Hoxieposted 12 years ago

    HubPages is the only shared site that I've ever written on, except for a little at SheToldme or Snipsly.

    It will be the last. No I'm not pulling my hubs and if things get better I'll even write more.

    But for now on, I'm focusing on my own sites - and actually not focusing on affiliate marketing as much. Will go after adsense in a big way and then traditional advertising. I'm enjoying the process of connecting with the local community and look forward to more of it.

    In fact, I believe in the long-term sites with non-optimized normally written content will benefit, so that's the flavor I've been writing in the past few days.

    1. profile image0
      ryankettposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I have given my oDesk writers no SEO instructions, and I am using the entirely 'non-optimized' titles in their entirety smile Thus, natural content, bingo!

      In fact, I even told them to "write whatever they want, as long as it is on careers" although it wasn't careers, it was another broad topic smile

      I am not pinning my hopes on those, that is a one site experiment, the keyword tool is still very much in use for my new sales sites.

    2. netlexis profile image62
      netlexisposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I think that's the best idea, Nelle. You can't go wrong with building you own sites and that's just what I've been concentrating on this last month - a new venture for me that just happened to coincide with the Goggle bash. What I'm interested in, however, is how other will be promoting their own sites now that article directors are probably not the best venue (and HubPages is being lumped in there with them).

  5. profile image0
    Nelle Hoxieposted 12 years ago

    Google never comes out with hard facts. They don't want to make it easier for the people who game them.

    1. profile image0
      ryankettposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      True, but a few little hints to the owners of the businesses that they are potentially screwing wouldn't go amiss hmm

  6. barryrutherford profile image80
    barryrutherfordposted 12 years ago

    i am feeling more hopeful today after being down 50% to 45 % over the last two days my views have rised to about 75% of what they were two days ago...

    1. profile image0
      ryankettposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I have just seen small amounts of growth, although that is normal for this time on a Sunday. It is obvious that we will all see growth tomorrow, what with it being a monday, but I will be related my monday stats with lasts mondays stats and I still expect to see 35% of my AdSense impressions gone on a monday-monday basis.

  7. profile image0
    Nelle Hoxieposted 12 years ago

    If you write your own sites and they are truly unique Google will gobbble them up. The posts on the site I just started this week are being indexed within the hour and they are starting to rank decently.

    If you're building an affiliate marketing site, it might be harder.

  8. Jane@CM profile image59
    Jane@CMposted 12 years ago

    Build your own site & stay here too.  Its not hard to build a site, start small with a free blog, brought to you by Google!

  9. Bill Manning profile image65
    Bill Manningposted 12 years ago

    I have to say even my own website pages are going crazy right now. Some of my best pages on my tourist site I can't even find.

    Others are higher than before. So this is going to affect everyone for a week or two before it's all over.

    I've seen it before. My best pages are just gone, not even on the 50th page. Then in two days they are back on the 1st page.

    That is what is going on now, so we all need to just wait and see what it will all be like in a week. smile

    1. earnestshub profile image84
      earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I agree Bill, it is a bit of a slay ride at this time, some up, some outta sight down. Time will heal all for non spammers. smile Google are not silly, the cream will rise to the top whether on hubpages or not. Googles primary interest remains the same. Bring good content to the top of their search engine, that's it.

  10. rebekahELLE profile image84
    rebekahELLEposted 12 years ago

    Ryan, I didn't know you had a ban. I'm certain whatever you decide to do will be successful. When I was reading your post, I looked up at a plaque hanging above my desk that I received as a teacher gift. I think it says it well.  I

    The best way to predict the future is to create it.

    I like your Gen Y determination and ability to succeed, don't ever let anyone take it away from you. wink

  11. TomC35 profile image61
    TomC35posted 12 years ago

    I post on here, but do not take it overly serious.  I mean come on, Google is doing what they feel is best for them.  To complain would be like the people who post links to their websites through Craigslist, which is not really intended for that, but get mad when Craigslist tries to stop their spamming. 

    Hubpages is fun, but it also could be defined as a content farm.

  12. profile image48
    Philip A Youngposted 12 years ago

    Although I don't actively use hubpages, as someone who made good income from Hubpages in the past, I feel I have to chime in on this subject. I have been following the Google Algorithm changes and the threads on different forums. A lot of people seem to only care about how this affected them. Me Me Me. I've seen people call people names. Talk about how they will switch to Bing. Talk about how great their content is and how Google punished them.  Hubpages is dead. None of this is true. This behavior only harms your personal brand and once you hurt your brand it takes a lot of effort to recover.

    Let's look at the facts. Bing is taking more of Google's Market Share. Google was called out by a national newspaper for poor results in its search.  The company sacrified its own revenue from adsense to make search better. It's not personal. It's business.  Is it perfect? God no. But they must continue to change so that the cream rises to the top.

    Hubpages is a great platform that allows writers who wouldn't already get heard to be found. People have taken advantage of the platform. Google didn't pick on domains and say okay we will rank them lower. It is only my guess that what they did do is lower the quality of internal links on web 2.0 platforms and content farm networks. Hubpages  and you have to adapt.

    What you have to remember as much as the Internet changes, there is one thing that stays constant-the quality of your content. The best writers will not go out and complain and make their personal brand look foolish. They will carry themselves in an  appropriate business like manner. Take an example of the Hubpages CEO. That's how you act in a moment of crisis. No need to get angry and throw fists at everything in your way. You except change and adapt to it. Nobody lost anything. You're still as talented a writer  as the day before Google changed the algorithm. Go make something happen. The world is thirsty for good content.

    1. agvulpes profile image87
      agvulpesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Yep, what he said smile

  13. rebekahELLE profile image84
    rebekahELLEposted 12 years ago

    well said. it's kind of like riding a wave, but remembering you still have to focus and make that board go where it needs to go.

  14. Dale Nelson profile image38
    Dale Nelsonposted 12 years ago

    I just want to say that I appreciate how seriously Ryan and the other fulltime hubbers here take their content, wherever it may be on the web.

    It is not difficult to go for a hit and miss attitude and just keep placing random content everywhere you travel on the web and hope that some of it ranks.

    It takes time to learn and build an online strategy and know that in the back of your mind there is no guarantee of a monthly paycheck.

    When I started, I decided that the only criteria I would keep is that I enjoyed it.

    Unfortunately I am not brave enough to call myself a full time internet marketer.....So respect to you guys who are.

    I still have a day job which thankfully is outdoors and commands much flexitime.

    I too share Ryan's philosophy of creating sites that generate a little each and compound over the years. So far its working and one day I hope to take early retirement that way.

    So, we just got to remember that we get paid well for something that is not to difficult and does not cost much to become involved in.

    And everyday I keep building my snowball.

  15. BobbiRant profile image60
    BobbiRantposted 12 years ago

    Well Google could not seem to get around the 'pact with the devil' it first was going to try, namely; teaming up with Verizon to charge companies and individuals for their sites to show up at the top of the heap.  Their 'new program' however, will probably accomplish that.  The free and open Internet is being whittled away piece by piece, even though it Was the free and open Internet that made Google as rich and powerful as it is.  I know Google is having an out and out 'war' with Bing, as is obvious by the war of words Microsoft and Google was having recently on Twitter.  Sites that are not as good as others make it up there due to 'big money to spend' and I am not going to delude myself with Google's 'Do no harm' little philosophy.  It appears since Google could not charge outright and up front, they write a new program to serve the same purpose, only a bit sneakier.  It's like in The Social Network where Zuckerberg says: "I did Not steal Facebook, it's an entirely new program, so it's a 'new' idea."  Right, sure it is.

    Like AOL recently buying Huffington Post, that deal went down for a reason too but that's along a bit different line. Those who can pay big bucks, get to play.  I recently got a 'gift' from Google in my mailbox asking me to please come over write on Google and advertise directly with Google on their site, it was for 'being a loyal customer' so the letter said.  A monetary amount to spend on the Google site for advertising. 

    The free and open Internet is being divvied up among a choice and powerful few.  Make no mistake.


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