Change "ban" to "suspend"

1. 87

   Marisa Wrightposted 13 years ago

   Yet again I see some emotive posts because someone has been "banned".
   
   Too many Hubbers seem to assume the statement ".... is banned" means they've been banished from HubPages forever, whereas in fact they have just been suspended for a few days to cool down.
   
   I don't know if the communication to the Hubber includes the word "banned", but if it does, can we start telling them they've been "suspended" instead?  That word makes it clear the removal is only temporary and the Hubber will be back.

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   1. 71

      Maddie Ruudposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Good suggestion.  I'll take a stab at modifying the messaging.  I doubt this will change the number of heated posts you see in the forums, however. People like drama, like to feel persecuted.  No matter what words I use, I'll always be the bad guy to some.  Goes with the territory.

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      1. 67

         Michael Willisposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Ah, I like bad girls!

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      2. 60

         recommend1posted 13 years agoin reply to this

         You are not seen as the 'bad guy' - even by those of us who you have banned several times for 'over-heating'. 
         
         You are sometimes seen as incorrect or plain wrong - and THAT is what inevitably goes with the territory. 
         
         I don't think we expect you to be right every time, however - I think we expect you to take some notice of criticism as that forms 'our' collective opinion of what you do.

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      3. 0

         Stevennix2001posted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Well for the record Maddie, I never viewed any of the mods as the quote, "bad guys", of hubpages.  Sure, I may have joked about it, when I was using my other account on here a while back, but it was more of a "tongue and cheek" kind of joke that wasn't meant to ever be taken too seriously.  However, I do apologize to anyone if it ever was.
         
         However, I think the problem with people that are often placed in a position of authority, they're forced to make tough decisions frequently; which a lot of times may not always be the most popular decision out there, but it's definitely in someways the right thing to do.  Granted, I'm not saying that I necessarily agree with all the changes made recently, as some of it is kind of subjective if you ask me.  However, I can certainly see the logic behind it, as I'm sure in the long run that sacrifices are necessary to ensure the future of this site's future.

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      4. 67

         Joy56posted 13 years agoin reply to this

         ha ha, you are not here to be liked..... that was a favourite expression, of a manager i had once, funny but true i suppose.......

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   2. 71

      Maddie Ruudposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I just took a look at the messaging, and it already states clearly that most bans are temporary.  It isn't practical to change the language to "suspended," since we currently display the same message to people who are banned temporarily for personal attacks, and to people who are banned for spamming the forums.  I'll put displaying different messaging to temporarily banned (or "suspended") users on our to-do list, but it probably won't get done right away.

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      1. 87

         Marisa Wrightposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         That's a shame, maybe it's just up to more experienced Hubbers to add that word "temporary" in, any time they're mentioning that someone is banned.

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   3. 0

      Stevennix2001posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Excelsior!  Great idea!

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2. 71

   Cagsilposted 13 years ago

   Okay, I'll agree.

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3. 67

   Michael Willisposted 13 years ago

   I like this idea. Maybe even say "temporarily suspended."

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   1. 71

      Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Hey Michael- "temporarily suspended" is almost as bad, just because "suspend" means "temporary".

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      1. 67

         Michael Willisposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I know it is the same. (edit: the same as far as what HP means)
         Temporary may just sound a little better. You know how easy people can get riled up here. lol
         I think the word Ban really does irritate a lot of people. It is a word that would be better used for what it means, than something that is only temporary.

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   2. 74

      Aficionadaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      As opposed to "indefinitely suspended."

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4. 84

   rebekahELLEposted 13 years ago

   I think most people posting in the forums understand that banned means a time out. It's easier to say than temporarily suspended.
     There's even a hub category for it!

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   1. 87

      Marisa Wrightposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I don't think that's true, because you see hysterical responses when someone has been banned for just three days.  Older hands know the difference but I don't believe newbies do.

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      1. 60

         recommend1posted 13 years agoin reply to this

         If you are talking about the emotive response to the banning of PearlDiver in the middle of his epic drive to get a stolen article site taken down then you are on the wrong tack.
         
         I have recently been banned, as have many others here without a word or post - PearlDiver is a totally different case.  He was working flat out in the interest of all hubbers when he was banned.  The fact that this was just as he was outing the HUBBERS involved in this massive theft of Hubpage articles opens up all kinds of issues.
         
         Either the moderator who banned him was just inexperienced or did not read the thread, or Hubpages have something to hide in this matter   -   beyond the obvious issue that it should be part of their job to do this for us as they have all the clout and resources!
         
         Whatever the issue it does not look good and no apology or reasonable explanation just leaves the thing open  -  just as the site that PD was chasing aroudn the servers is now open and thriving it would appear. I will see if they will email their thanks to whoever stopped PD.

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         1. 87

            Marisa Wrightposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Recommend, PearlDiver was banned for a nasty exchange on another thread, nothing to do with his excellent work on 68articles.
            
            Maybe it was because he was so worked up about 68articles, but whatever the reason, he made some unwarranted personal attacks. When I saw them, I was sure he was heading for a ban so it didn't surprise me.  No conspiracies!

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            1. 60

               recommend1posted 13 years agoin reply to this

               I especially went looking for other places he may have been banned as he is volatile and prone to lash out verbally - but I only found a mild exchange where he told someone to stop diverting the thread - which may have been a little rude.  However, PD was doing a huge service for all the hubbers here, especially those with good hubs that were being stolen, and a degree of common sense would have been in order on the part of whoever banned him - he should have beenleft to carry on.
               
               Unless of course the trivial little 'spat' that I saw between PD and an irritating poster to his thread was not the only issue.  If there was aonther attack elsewhere you might point us to it ?
               
               The bottom line is that - due to that ban the site that PD was successfully chasing down is now up and running and looking healthy, and it appears to have spawned off several offshoots and name changes.  Was it worth satisfying somebody's pride over stopping this site ?  Was that somebody a set-up to provoke PD as happens so frequently in the religious and political forums ?  WAs that somebody to do with the WELL ESTABLISHED HUBBERS that PD claims are doing this ?

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               1. 67

                  relacheposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Admin has never taken the stance that people's dirty laundry needs to be aired in public and I'd be very disappointed if they began to do so.

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                     recommend1posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Admin doesn't normally do stupid things either.
                     
                     But - I am asking Marissa, not admin.
                     
                     And posting links to the thread and post is quite normal procedure.

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               2. 87

                  Marisa Wrightposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  I don't think it's a good idea to air dirty laundry either, so I'm not going to start pointing fingers.
                  
                  
                  
                  What nonsense!  Pearldiver did a great job spotting that the site was up and running again, but he wasn't doing it single-handedly - not by a long shot.  A ban of a few days wouldn't have made much difference, unless he was silly enough to flounce off in a huff after it - and I'm sure Pearldiver is too mature and sensible to do that.
                  
                  The site in question is a serial offender, it's now been taken down and reappeared several times.  Most of its articles now seem to be from articlesbase and ezinearticles, which it can legally use.

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                  1. 74

                     Aficionadaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     
                     Marisa, would you please clarify that? I don't know anything about articlesbase and ezinearticles. Are their articles free and available for anyone to copy without violating any rights?   Do they use authors' bylines?
                     
                     I have spent time every day checking on 68articles, and I haven't found any of my work there since I filed my DMCA.  In fact, my articles had been taken down by the time the Google people looked, and their response about the subject was that they could not find the referenced article on that site.  Anyway, I now try to spend a few minutes checking other material when I check for my own, and recently I found material that is a copy of something on articlestorehouse.com. 
                     
                     I would love to know of additional suggestions for what can be done about the perpetrator!

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                        recommend1posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        You should be asking PearlDiver these questions. He has many of the different sites these thieves have used to transfer stolen material from place to place and so changing their references etc. 
                        
                        All of those sites seem to be still doing good business and easily found by a simple Google search.
                        
                        And beware of advice from any Hubber, until PD gets back and points out who the established HUBBERS who have been here 3 years actually are.

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                        1. 75

                           Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           If you are correct recommend, PD'snot likely to be allowed back in. Right?

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                           1. 60

                              recommend1posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              I do not know - I heard he had a 3 day ban and that it was related to his statement that some HUBBERS are involved in this wholesale stealing of Hubs.  I understand he was going to publish who they are - maybe he did and that is what got him banned and his post deleted - who knows without any word from anyone ?
                              
                              The trivial little word exchange that I saw was hardly worth a ban - and looked like deliberate baiting to me to get him banned, bu then I am totally cynical about things after my experiences of such trivial and underhand behaviours in the religious and political forums.

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                        2. 74

                           Aficionadaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           
                           I appreciate the heads up, R1, but I'm afraid I'm not willing to limit my trust to one person only.  I know that PD has done a huge amount of work in trying to take down 68articles, and that work was helpful and appreciated, but several other people here have been busy and helpful with the same thing.
                           
                           Some of the information that PD posted about what to do was so far above my head, that it was really meaningless to me.  I am more than willing to do what I can, but I finally stopped reading the one thread that got so technical that it was a waste of my time.  In the meantime, what I am doing is making my search for copied content more methodical and thorough than it has been in the past.
                           
                           As for the reason why PD was banned - wasn't the question about whether the ban came from his promise to reveal a Hubber's identity really just a guess?  We could probably spend all day guessing about a reason for the suspension, but in the end our guesses would still just be guesses.

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                           1. 60

                              recommend1posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              I think not trusting anyone is more appropriate myself in these strange times
                              
                              Gussing is what we are left with when we have no information - bannin PD leaves us without information and it was a stupid thing to do if it involved just the trivail spat that we saw.  If he was more rude to someone elsewhere then it might be different - but I note that the 'elsewhere' is just as elusive behind a veil of 'dirty washing'.  If he was banned by the actions of hubbers trying to shut him up - then someone has made a gross error of judgement.
                              
                              The technical stuff was also over my head - which is why we need Pearldiver, as it is clearly not over his !  and we need someone who is able to do it rather than misinformation and no action.

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                              1. 74

                                 Aficionadaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 Good point!        We certainly don't have enough bad feelings, mistrust, and suspicion of one another here yet, do we? [j/k]      
                                 
                                 Just a thought, but couldn't you or anyone else contact PD through his profile, if you wanted more information?
                                 
                                 
                                 Maybe.  I admit I felt kind of frustrated in reading the thread, because it seemed that PD was wanting the rest of us to take action - but, as you and I have both said, we didn't know what to do with the info he provided.  I'm sure a handful of Hubbers would know what to do, so maybe it would be more helpful for him to contact them directly?

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                                 1. 60

                                    recommend1posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                    He was finding loads of copied hubs and letting everyone know so they could deal with it themselves - asking him to chase down the source and deal with the individual copied hubs would be hardly fair.  Maybe the management should have been taking a more active hand in it, maybe they were, who knows ?  Whatever was going on - all the sites PD was chasing are still up there and seemingly spreading even further into new places making it harder for them to be chased down again - so I guess anyone can just say goodbye to their copied content and helplessly watch the thieves top them on Google ?
                                    
                                    I guess PD should be back here about now if it was a 3 day ban he got ?

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                                       SomewayOuttaHereposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                       ..yea...where is PD...PD?

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                              2. 87

                                 Marisa Wrightposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 Not really.  We are all able to check 68articles for ourselves and raise notices if we need to - which is what we should have been doing, even when Pearldiver was "on the case".
                                 
                                 PD did tell us who the "established Hubber" was - one of the Hubbers called Zeeshan.  However I'm not at all sure he made a positive ID of which one.
                                 
                                 68articles.com was still up, last time I looked.  However, all my Hubs have been removed and I haven't spotted any other Hubs still on there.  I suspect the webmaster has realized Hubbers are too vigilant, and he's given up.  If he is now using legal sources like EzineArticles and Articlesbase, we have no further legal means to pursue him - which is a shame as the site doesn't really deserve to survive!

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               3. 75

                  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Guess some of us failed to see the personal attack in question.
                  
                  I did see a verbal exchange between PD and another hubber,but compared to the Religious forum ,quite tame.
                  
                  You would have to be fairly thin skinned to see that as nasty.
                  
                  But I concede maybe there was something else.
                  
                  I was disappointed that HP didn't step in at all, and either give PD the thumbs up or at least offer some guidance for other hubbers.
                  
                  I miss PD here ,but Im sure hes doing great, and passionately living his dream to write.

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      2. 0

         EmpressFelicityposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Part of the current heatedness over the word "banned" (I'd rather use that to describe it than "hysteria") might be arising because at least a couple of hubbers have actually been banned outright recently, through no fault of their own.

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5. 55

   Dame Scribeposted 13 years ago

   Just post 'In Detention'

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6. 67

   Michael Willisposted 13 years ago

   I like the Detention suggestion-Jail time from Forums!!!
   
   

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7. 78

   Uninvited Writerposted 13 years ago

   It's a conspiracy!

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8. 67

   Joy56posted 13 years ago

   i was banned, wasn't told why, i have to admit i did not like it when i could not join in the forums.  I dont really know why either, to be honest.  Ah well,

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9. 58

   BaliMermaidposted 13 years ago

   My only comment on this ban, albeit temporary, of one pearldiver is that he was doing a valuable service for all hubbers and for hubpages at the time of his suspention/banning.
   
   Now we have no communication with him and the thief that is stealing "our content" wholesale, lock stock and barrel is back up and continuing.
   
   I have a friend who is the owner of infopirate, the first web 2 revenue sharing website for bookmarking. For the last 6 hours they have been, under attack from this creep, they say it's him, and his software is posting web tips / bookmarks at a rate of 20 a minute. That's almost faster than their human moderators can delete the posts.
   
   This guy, Mr68, from VietNam is a criminal and we either need someone like Pearldiver, because he had the knowledge to get the job done, to get back after the creep or we need Hubpages to help us all out and throw some of their weight behind getting this guy stopped.
   
   I am not overheated. I am worried as heck for all hard working hubbers that do their best to follow the rules and post quality content.

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10. 59

    katiem2posted 13 years ago

    Hows a bout a time out, really put it in prospective!

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    1. 58

       BaliMermaidposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       I am not looking or trying to make or be a problem.  My perspective is that  mr68 in vietnam has stolen word for word every hub that myself and four other hubbers I know personally have written. Now he is trying to bookmark them back to his stolen copies.
       
       Do you not think the content owner of a hub has a right to be upset about that?  We have filed all the appropriate papers, three times to three diefferent locations ; thats 3 x 3 = 9 times for over 400 hubs - that is 3,600 filings. 
       
       So excuse me for being grateful for what Pearl Diver was doing to get this creep taken down.  And yes - shame on him if he was making personal attacks on anyone.
       
       On one hand he did good for all of us - on the other he let us all down.
       This is not personal - this is business - theft of property - content.
       
       That is my perspective and my last comment.

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          Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          I dont think he let you down ,I think he just got smart

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             recommend1posted 13 years agoin reply to this

             Of course he did not let anyone down - it would appear that he got sh@t upon and let down - unless there is more here than we can see.
             
             Where is this 'nasty remark in another thread' that has been attributed to him - but no mention of what remark or where !
             
             I would not be surprised at PD making a more than sharp remark, he has not shown much restraint in the past, but I have not seen it with extensive looking for it, I just know he was about to tell us who the LONG STANDING HUBBERS are who are stealing your stuff.
             
             WHERE IS PEARLDIVER ?

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11. 84

    rebekahELLEposted 13 years ago

    So why do you say he let us all down? It is not his responsibility. It is the responsibility of each author. PD was trying to make the community aware of thieves stealing content, any of us would be blind to not realize that registered users copy content. It's a good reason to not share earnings, or names of top ranking hubs.

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