Hello Hello has been banned

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IzzyMposted 13 years ago
As one of the many hubbers who offered to help, we are too late, Hello, Hello has been banned.

http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/90429

We have lost a wonderful hubber
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well that just sucks!!! What was the reason for the banning, Izzy?
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  paradigmsearchposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  According to the other thread, too many grammatical errors.
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  There were some, but we were going to help her fix them up. She had great topics and her work was well-researched.
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  tussinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It is HP's prerogative to get rid of "writers" who cannot write their way out a paper bag. They have business to run and it's in all of our interests that HP clean up the site. If you want to spend your free time coaching someone on how to articulate better, that's your business. But HP isn't a learning platform. The finished product has to be something that reflects well on HP.
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And you couldn't say this under your usual username, why?
  
  Normally, I would agree, but you know someone with as big a portfolio of interesting hubs as Hanna, deserves some help IMO.
  
  I'm also joining in those who are offering again to edit those hubs. If Hanna wants to start a new subdomain and add in her corrected hubs one by one, at the end of the day she will have a nice portfolio of over 400 hubs to earn her passive income.
  
  It would seem that she first ran foul of the moderators in November, so I suppose HP must have given her 6 weeks, more or less, to fix up all of her hubs which was impossible for her.
  
  It's such a shame they didn't just unpublish and leave her account open.
  
  Maybe the ban was in case she tried to put up more hubs with the same errors, I don't know.
  
  I think we as a community could help her get all her hubs fixed, so if anyone can help, please tell either Redelf or me, to pass along to her.
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  Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I had already offered in that other thread, but in case y'all missed that..
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes you did and there were others too.
  
  Now we all need to band together and get the ball rolling. Hanna has not sent me any stuff to edit, I contacted her to make the offer, and also to tell her how to sort her pixelated images problem.
  
  To be honest, I don't know her, nor her history.
  
  I think we need someone to collate who is doing what, and I nominate Redelf, because my internet connection is dodgy and keeps going off altogether for hours.
  
  Send me 10 too. I will not be that quick in getting them done, but hey I'm not doing anything else, and once I have them I can work on them offline too.
  
  All I need is the title or url and I can get the hub from the cache.
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  Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'd rather get one at a time. I don't want to feel buried and rushed.
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  Amanda Severnposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  If this is what Hello, hello wants, and she really would like her hubs edited by other hubbers, then count me in. I'd be glad to do a few here and there. I've always liked Hello, hello, and I'm sorry she has this problem.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It's always great to hear someone with no hubs give their no cents worth!
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  SomewayOuttaHereposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  .....hmmmm......must be the sock that got lost in the dryer
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  FloraBreenRobisonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  This would be funnier if it were not so typical of people with no hubs.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ain't it the truth! Perhaps I should have said their "no sense worth" instead!
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  There's got to be more to it than that!
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  paradigmsearchposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe we'll find out. Maybe not.
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  Wesman Todd Shawposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I would think so. Maybe we can get Jason in here to tell us?
  
  Banning someone for bad grammar is absurd. Unpublishing a poor hub is fine, but BANNING for bad grammar? Oh please...
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  paradigmsearchposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm plowing through that other 81-post thread as we speak...
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  She wasn't told. She doesn't know either and is understandably shattered. Perhaps it was a mistake by an over-worked staff member?
  
  After all I just got a hub re-published and an apology because they are overworked and understaffed, or words along those lines.
  
  Here's hoping it was a mistake because of course Hanna has no course for redress now that she is banned.
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  Dale Hydeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  She has told me, Izzy, that she received no email or notification with why she was banned and all of her material has been unpublished. We are talking of like 400 hubs here, representing untold number of hours spent creating them. I am saddened.
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  Dale Hydeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I am off to chill for awhile and think. I do hope, Izzy, that it is a mistake that will soon be corrected. My offer stands to help her by proofing any further hubs prior to her publishing them.
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  paradigmsearchposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I remember another hubber who was banned and then resurrected. So, assuming nothing egregious happened that we don't know about, there is actually hope here.
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  Dale Hydeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  This sucks! I may be a newbie here, but I am her friend. She should be respected for all she has given here. I have been following this incident and some of the inadequate responses to her original forum post. I am sorely disappointed and I will tell you this, it has stumbled me in my creativity to see this happen.
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  Bendo13posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That's no good! She was a frequent reader of mine... can't say I agree with half of the things HubPages does anymore.
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  snakeslaneposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Not tech savy myself enough to aid,but loving what you caring people are working on here. I did read every post last night. Still some catching up to do. I do hope your efforts have good results for Hello Hello. Hello Hello!
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  snakeslaneposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry IzzyM, I thought I was replying to your very first post, not the last, which I did not read until after I posted, my bad. But I have to say your efforts to help are so genuine, and I am in awe of your skills.
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hey this is a massive team effort and it is lovely to see the community pulling together so well - even if my hubberscore is dropping like a stone! lol
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  snakeslaneposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Wow, it really is lzzyM! That is interesting too. I wish you well. Perserverance furthers so they say.
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paradigmsearchposted 13 years ago
I read some of her forum posts. She seemed like a really nice person. This is sad.
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Cassie Smithposted 13 years ago
Seems kind of silly to be banned for grammatical errors. Why didn't they just allow her to unpublish her stuff until she could work on it and make each hub passable for publishing.
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paradigmsearchposted 13 years ago
I'm definitely getting the impression that if English isn't your native language, as far as google is concerned, you're toast. Period.
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  relacheposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I think it's more like "if you are writing for a website that is based in an English-speaking country and which draws primarily English-speaking audiences, and English is not your native language, then you are toast on those sites."
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  paradigmsearchposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And that coincides with a thought I had a little earlier!
  
  How difficult would it be for HP to have hubs just display (or not display) in certain regions?
  
  Hello, hello's hubs would have been fine and dandy outside the US (and maybe Canada) as an example.
  
  She was so close. In time her hubs would have been cleaned up and good enough for US inclusion.
  
  The above is just a thought. It all depends on how much of a project it would be to implement it. And if there are a sufficient number of Hubbers this could be used for (which could possibly be one heck of a lot since we are definitely a worldwide community).
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  lobobrandonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Luckily for me it is my native language. But there are plenty of hubbers from around the world doing well here aren't they?
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paradigmsearchposted 13 years ago
Am I correct in that HP already has mirror sites?
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paradigmsearchposted 13 years ago
Well, this certainly turned into a depressing day...

Seems like I'm living in fear wherever I turn...
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Uninvited Writerposted 13 years ago
Sadly, writing for HubPages is not the way to learn how to speak and write English. Maybe she would be better in a site such as Triond.
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  paradigmsearchposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I think that if HP utilizes my article-region idea, they could make money on the deal! Paradigmsearch, the eternal optimist...
  
  Besides, Google already does it with ads. Just how hard would it be?
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  OK so her stuff wasn't perfect, but it would have been a 5 minute job for any of us to correct the errors, and we had already offered to do so.
  
  What gets me is that she wrote better than quite a few of the native English speakers that write here.
  
  I'm still hoping it was a mistake and that a staff member will be along to rectify matters.
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  Wesman Todd Shawposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Izzy, since you are in contact with her - .....her material still needs grammar help, but as soon as they've been edited ...she could put them all on Info Barrel.
  
  Info Barrel just makes you submit ten before they "give you free reign."
  
  It's a better adsense site than this one is....but this is still the best publishing site.
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wordscribe43posted 13 years ago
Oh nooooo!
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paradigmsearchposted 13 years ago
I've just been reading her hubs. If all 388 of them were like the ones I just read, HP did indeed need to unpublish them for both HP's and Hello, hello's own protection. If a Google-human had stumbled across one of those hubs, the adsense account would have been revoked immediately; it was only a matter of time.

As to the banning, let's hope that gets turned around. If so, she gets a second chance. And she gets to still have her adsense account.
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  Dale Hydeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I don't disagree with the unpublishing, but the ban I do. There are enough of us that would proof her published hubs and keep them going. Plus we offered solution via software, online and downloads that she could use to correct grammar issues. A team effort in a short period of time, would have had her shining like a new quarter, just issued in 2012.
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  paradigmsearchposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'd help do a couple.
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  How do you work out that it protects her Adsense account?
  
  Her writing wasn't perfect, but it was perfectly understandable, and guess what? GOOGLE CAN'T READ.
  
  All this talk about them wanting to improve content, grammar spelling etc, is a load of rubbish.
  
  I know because daily I see the glaring grammatical and spelling errors on page 1 results in the SERPS.
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  paradigmsearchposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I predict that 2012 is the year of the angry google ferrets. The ferrets' mission being to fix what you have just described. I'm suspecting that the technology is on the cusp of doing this. HP, and the other writing sites incidentally, don't want to be slaughtered in the process when those ferrets are unleashed.
  
  This is just my opinion.
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  EmpressFelicityposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Quite. And given the cr*p that gets published on HP daily, I'd say that HP's own priorities are still skewed.
  
  Yesterday I paid a visit to the Hopper and found a hub that consisted of six words (yes, really) and a picture. Please HP, put a filter in to catch that kind of stuff. Other sites do it, so it is technically possible.
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WriteAngledposted 13 years ago
She was getting increasingly fraught on here about hubs being unpublished. It's therefore also possible that the ban is the result of some angry communication with moderators if she happened to lose her rag with them.
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  paradigmsearchposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I wouldn't have put it quite that way..., but that thought crossed my mind as well.
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habeeposted 13 years ago
This breaks my heart!
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sofsposted 13 years ago
This is terrible, banned for grammatical errors, there are more hubs here that don't make sense at all. But why ban ..couldn't they unpublish and ask her to edit them.
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IzzyMposted 13 years ago
Maybe it was a mistake by a new trigger-happy moderator?
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Anamika Sposted 13 years ago
This literally gives me shivers. My main language is not English (though I don't have any substandard hubs so far) and my English may not be that perfect according to HubPages standards. I have Hindu mantra hubs in which I have written the Sanskrit Mantras in English. Now who knows HubPages may have a problem with such Hubs though they are high traffic hubs. I also have tons of comments I have approved where there are grammatical errors or sentence construction wrong. I have approved many local language comments written in English also especially in a hub about a Hindi TV serial which has 1500 plus views daily and a minimum of 20 comments a day (and my mantra hubs) . Maybe I will disable all comments till I clean up the act.

Banning a Hubber who is here for long and having a good reputation with no prior notice is not justifiable. I really wish that Hubpages should have unpublished her Hubs instead of banning her. Maybe there is something more to it than what we know which prompted them to do that. Also we still do not know what was the problem with Len who vanished in thin air. I only hope that she has copies of all her hubs here so that she can publish it elsewhere and that her works are not duplicated by someone else already.

Now I wonder if HubPages have really started targeting non English speaking hubbers and like someone mentioned in a forum post (which I defended) maybe discrimination exists here. Having communicated with many of the HP staff I have difficulty in thinking that way. For the record, 3 of the top 5 Alexa traffic Hubbers are Indians (me, soni2006 and sunseven).len7288 was also on the top 10 list.

I only hope that before giving shockers to Hubbers by banning them, HubPages Staff would at least let them know what the fault is and give some them time to fix up if it can be done.
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RedElfposted 13 years ago
I just finished editing a hub for Hanna (Hello, hello,). It was not five minutes work, in fact - it took about an hour and a half, but was well worth the effort as it was a good hub to begin with.

Hanna writes on interesting and varied topics, and is a great example of a friendly and supportive hubber. It would be a shame to loose her permanently.

There are a few really prolific hubbers around that have worse grammar and inappropriate word usage, yet they have not been systematically flagged and removed.

All her hubs are currently unpublished and her profile is gone. She will need some help to retrieve all her work, but I am in touch with her and am making an effort to salvage her writing.

I hope she can get this sorted out.
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  CASE1WORKERposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I am limited time wise, but if HP will take her back, and she wants to stay- put me down to "edit" two or three hubs!
  We can a crow about standards etc, but the bottom line is that she has been a valued member of our community for some time and now she is gone, in a flash!
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melbelposted 13 years ago
Hello, hello was a very nice user but in her forum thread it seemed like she spent more time blaming HP for not having a grammar checker than spending going to a number of any third-party grammar checkers and rectifying the situation herself. The spell check is a convenience for hubbers and even so, many hubbers use third-party software for this as the spell check here isn't terribly reliable.

The hubs may have been well-researched, but they were rife with grammatical errors. We all make mistakes and perhaps she will go over all her hubs and fix them and perhaps HP will let her come back. Perhaps there is more to the story than that. We don't know what was said in messages to staff.

Perhaps the ban was because her problem wasn't something that can be easily fixed, but is a long-term problem. It would literally take her months upon months (even years) to really get the English language down pat. I applaud her for getting as far as she has... I don't know ANY foreign language as well as she knew English. That said, I bet she writes in her native language like a PRO... perhaps she could spend time writing in her native language and gradually learning English by reading and speaking it more often.

On a side note, English is one butt-ugly mutt of a language. It's like the PHP of spoken language.
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Jason Menayanposted 13 years ago
I'll chime in here to restate what I've said before (so it will be brief), but:

- We only ban when there is a rather long history of a Hubber violating the rules. Mistakes are occasionally made, but bans are never capricious. There are always plenty of chances for a Hubber to learn the rules and begin applying them.
- We do not disclose publicly the reason for a ban, and this is no exception.
- There is absolutely no witch hunt against Hubbers for whom English is not their first language. Good written English is good written English, no matter whose fingers typed it out.
- Bans simply unpublish Hubs (permanently). The Hubber is free to move them to another site. The only time Hubs are deleted is when a Hubber deletes them, or they ask us to permanently delete their account.
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  Anamika Sposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for the clarification. That gives me some relief. I have dedicated the rest of this month to do the clean up act on comments.
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  SunSevenposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for the explanation Jason.
  Racial (regional) discrimination is the last thing HP needs.
  I was getting a little edgy over this, and bracing myself for such volatility. The venom in some "English" Patriots' comments are not helping at all!
  
  Best Regards
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Debby Bruckposted 13 years ago
I can't find the notification of her being banned. But it appears that she is still in the forum. Does it mean only her articles are not published, but she is still part of the community?
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Not having any hubs is better than having bad hubs, I suppose! That's why folks with no hubs at all are allowed to roam free here. Nothing makes sense anymore!
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RedElfposted 13 years ago
Thanks for the clarification, Jason.

Debby, Hanna emailed me that she was banned, and I cannot find her profile. Her articles are currently unpublished.

Of course, Hanna still has access to her work, but she is having some difficulties copying her work, so I am helping her with that.
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  Anamika Sposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That's so nice of you RedElf. I want some help in taking a back up of all my Hubs. I have tons of it which I have not backed up. Can anyone please tell me how that can be done in bulk? It is better to be safe than sorry, I guess.
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  Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Do a search for "Backing up Hubpages hubs to your computer"
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  ngurecoposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Pcunix, you have just passed on to me very helpful knowledge.
  
  May God bless you.
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  Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I am happy to have helped you with your backup. I have to reject your blessing, however, as I am a follower of the Holy IPU and She gets very upset about fake gods and goddesses like yours.
  
  May Her Invisible Pinkness take mercy on you (though She won't because she's nasty that way and doesn't do last minute conversions, so by the time you hear Her Holy Hooves, it's too late).
  
  Other than that, backup is important and automating it in the ways I have suggested at that hub can make sure that you have safe copies (which you can look at with File->Open in your browser) and can cut and paste from them if ever needed.
  
  Someday I'm going to get around to writing a script to extract just the module information without all the surrounding html/javascript.
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  ngurecoposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Holy IPU? I have not heard of Holy IPU before you mentioned it here.
  
  So, may the Holy IPU bless you.
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  Peggy Wposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi Pcunix,
  
  Perhaps you could write a hub about not only backing up our hubs but also extracting just the module info without all the surrounding html/javascript. Am sure that many people would be interested.
  
  Sad to hear about Hanna being banned.
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  Anamika Sposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks Pcunix! I found it and as soon as I get some free time I would get to work.
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  mistyhorizon2003posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Downloads the Firefox Add On called 'Scrapbook' and use this to back up your hubs. If you do a search on You Tube for 'The Internet Bloke' he has an excellent video tutorial on how to use it. (He is a hubber here called Eric Graudins.) Of course if you aren't on Firefox this won't work, but it is easily downloaded and even if you only use it to back up your hubs, it has served its purpose
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  wordscribe43posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That's so thoughtful of you, RedElf. Thanks for helping her! I hope she gets it all sorted out quickly.
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  habeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Elf, send me ten of Hanna's hubs, and I'll edit them. When I'm done with those, you can send me ten more. With so many people offering to help, we'll have Hanna's hubs back up and running in no time!
  
  As a former English/writing teacher, I work quickly. I'll feel like I'm editing essays again - something I have LOTS of experience with. lol
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Randy Godwinposted 13 years ago
COLD!
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Randy Godwinposted 13 years ago
What clarification?
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skyfireposted 13 years ago
Big assumption, english speaking audience? Hmm, US has mixture of people from around the world. You don't have to be oxford graduate to survive in united states or to communicate online. How many folks in english speaking countries opt for SMS lingo online? How many buyers from english speaking countries can spell right? How many buyers even care for what is posted on hubs or any random site on the web?

Just because writers make assumption that they're not tolerant towards typo or grammar mistake doesn't mean buyers also do that same. Writers are not buyers on content mills or any niche aff site.Hell, if that was the case CPA business needs to be toast before even taking off to the position it is in right now. That doesn't mean we should write hubs full of typos and grammar, I am not suggesting that.

Writers or freelancer or IM'ers or any tech savvy person purchase stuff directly without reading biased online reviews. Quality is always subjective on the internet, it's just that we try to hit standards in order to escape from so-called assumed Google content guidelines. Not a single statement in google's guidelines says all the indexed webpages on the internet has to be grammatically correct, If it that's the case half of the non-english contributors on stackoverflow with blogs should get their sites de-indexed and thrown off the SERPs.
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  SunSevenposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  THIS +++++
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  LeanManposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  If the language is less than perfect then it is a possible indicator that care has not been taken over the content of the article. Therefore a good indicator for any search engine to use to judge the possible quality of an article.
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  Lisa HWposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I don't really know Hello, hello beyond just her Hubs and any comments she's made, but she seems like a nice person and has Hubs about interesting subjects - so I'm sorry to see this happen. Like so many others, I feel bad about it..
  
  But, with regard to "quality is always subjective on the Internet"... It may be subjective on the Internet, but correct grammar isn't subjective in the publishing world and/or in the eyes of a lot of people running a business and either paying people to write for them or else paying for ads associated with the writing. Regardless of which language it is, there are requirements for correct use of language in any number of areas in business.
  
  If there's no statement about correct grammar in Google's guidelines maybe it's because in business and in publishing it's kind of a given that anyone who writes understands that there's the expectation of a certain level of skill using the language in which the material will be published.
  
  This kind of thing (what has happened with Hello, hello) is just a reminder that as long as we're writing on someone else's site there the chance we'll be asked to fix or remove stuff. Standards and rules can change. It's also a reminder to keep copies of everything (not just copies of text capsules - but everything else, including links to videos, resources, photos, etc.)
  
  Also, it's reminder that people should at least make the effort to fix as many grammar/spelling issues as possible by running checks on both spelling and grammar. Typos can be picked up by both sometimes too. Don't overlook your profile (when it comes to keeping a copy and doing the grammar/spelling check thing either. You never know when you may want to (or have to) set up shop somewhere else.
  
  Sincerely wishing Hello, hello the best. I'm kind of reluctant to make a "mild" joke here, but here goes... Maybe she can come back as "Hello, hello, again" and start anew.
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skyfireposted 13 years ago
lol
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Randy Godwinposted 13 years ago
Let's just face the facts, everyone is scared as heck of Google coming down on them. I understand as they are screwing me over as we speak. I'm just glad I don't have to kiss their butt like some do. It must be terrible to be at their mercy and be too frightened to fight back. But that's just me!
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2uesdayposted 13 years ago
I wish you well and good luck with your writing Hello Hello and where ever you take it too I hope you are successful there. I thought the responses and offers of help showed a great team spirit and kindness too.
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Trsmdposted 13 years ago
Hello Hello....what happened to you...may be now you are reading this with some other user name..hope you will succeed with your other userid...all the best..
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skyfireposted 13 years ago
I take my previous comment back,sometimes I forget that I'm on HP forum. I must hit my head where it's worth the trouble. My bad.
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habeeposted 13 years ago
I don't know how well you guys know Hanna, but she has a fascinating history. She's always been extremely supportive to other hubbers, too, with reading and comments. I sincerely hope she accepts our help!
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Randy Godwinposted 13 years ago
Well, what a conundrum! I know of one longtime hubber who makes me cringe every time I read her posts and hubs because of all the misspelled and misused words she uses in her writing, but so far I've not flagged her stuff. I suppose now I have to do it. By the way, she is considered an "Elite" by the staff so this makes the site look even worse to outsiders who wonder if this type of hubber is the cream of the crop. Clarify this if you can!
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  Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I can't. I could guess who you are talking about, but it doesn't matter. I've been through the list of "Top Hubbers" and some of them are really good and some of them are.. well, they are something else.
  
  Shrug. It's HP's court. If they decide I'm a hero or a zero, then that's what they decide. If I don't like it, I can go somewhere else. Same with Hanna, I guess. I wish we could have helped her sooner.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So double standards are to be expected and accepted here? Okay, as along as we are aware this is the case here. Perhaps Hello, hello should have applied for an Elite title then.
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  Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I don't know that it is double standards. It's different standards.
  
  And yeah, as I said, I think some of the Big Un's are really bad writers. It doesn't matter what I think, though, does it?
  
  As to Hello, Hello, I have never read a thing she wrote and never noticed her in the Forums, but if people I trust say she deserves help, I'm willing to help. When I get done, I might think she's a bad writer too, but it still isn't my call.
  
  Believe it or not, there are people who think I write badly. I know, hard to believe, right?
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No, it obviously doesn't matter what either of us think PC, but many of us knew HP was just asking for trouble by using the "Elite" title for basically greeters on the site. I think they realize it now but are too stubborn to back out at this point! Perhaps it would make a good hub for the newbies to read and thus understand how things really work here. The truth's da truth!
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  Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I won't disagree with that, either. Haven't there been those who refused to do the job that they would have been happy to do if it were not for that title? I absolutely feel that way -I'd be glad to help with many things, but not if I have to wear that mantle.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, there have been several who asked for the title to be removed and I respect them even more for their actions. Those who actively seek the title I won't comment on. I do believe the designation prevents many from volunteering to help out here when they otherwise would be happy to.
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I too know of several hubbers who may not be 'elite' but who are long term and are getting lots of Google love. My 10 year old could write better hubs.
  
  Takes me back to that saying that Google cannot read.
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IzzyMposted 13 years ago
A list of volunteers to help Hanna fix her hubs

PCUnix
IzzyM
Amanda Severn
RedElf
Habee
Case1worker
Sally's Trove
Dale Hyde
John Holden
Seanorjohn
Cardisa who else? Add your name on the end.
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  John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  John Holden
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  LOL, I went to the other thread and got your name and added it, thanks
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  Dame Scribeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Dame Scribe Hello hello is one of the sweetest Hubbers around. I'd give my help no problem, here or elsewhere. Ooops, wheres the rest of that list
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I would be glad to help but am absolutely unqualified to do so, Izzy!
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah I should really take my name off the list, seeing you and me are HP's official 'awkward' writers! lol
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well, actually it's not even that silly thing, Izzy. I just have no formal training in editing as I write by the seat of my pants anyway. I'm glad that those who are qualified to help have offered their assistance though. They all have my respect for their good intentions in this regard. For what that's worth!
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Don't worry about it! You don't need to feel guilty if you don't feel up to it for whatever reason, no worries honestly.
  
  It's actually quite a big undertaking for no reward other than seeing a valued hubber back.
  
  But hey the more the merrier, we are looking at 400 hubs here, so with 12 volunteers so far, we could do with more. Don't feel guilty if you don't volunteer.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks Izzy, I just feel bad because I can't help her as she has been so nice to everyone here. Perhaps the old saying is indeed true. "Nice guys finish......!
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  Peggy Wposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  According to Jason's reply, the ban is permanent...so editing Hanna's hubs won't help. Would they accept her with a new user name and account. That I do not know. If so...then the editing might help?
  
  As Randy says, she has always been so nice to fellow hubbers.
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  Cassie Smithposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  If the ban is permanent. Can't she just start another account and put the redone hubs there?
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  wordscribe43posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No, you definitely cannot bypass a ban that way. It's a big NO NO.
  
  But regardless, I still want to help. She can go republish her hubs elsewhere after they're all fixed up. So, it's not wasted time and effort at all.
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  seanorjohnposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Not sure how I got on this list. However, I am more than happy to help. So please send me some hubs to edit.
  
  Sean (seanorjohn)
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Oh please do grab a page number
  
  Sorry I put your name on the list because of this comment you made on the other thread - http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/90429?p … ost1932074
  
  "I will help too . I'm not too bad on grammar, spelling, and stuff."
  
  Please do help out, this is quite mountain for us.
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  seanorjohnposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks Izzy, can I grab page no 9. Hope I can figure out the techy stuff. I am happy to help because I truly admire speakers of other languages trying to write in English on Hubpages.
  It's a bit mad me doing this because I have only published 14 hubs.
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah but you're not writing hubs, just running over them correct the odd grammatical error and its not a lot of work. Many thanks!
  
  I have kept a note of anything people here have done and the hubs you are doing wordscribe, so hopefully we'll get through them.
  
  I've done 4 so far, and copied a few more into Word to do tomorrow (from page 12), but not sent them off yet.
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  That Grrlposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I can volunteer to edit some of her posts. I'm not perfect but I have few complaints.
  
  I haven't read any of her posts (as far as I know) but people seem to think they were worth saving.
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Many Thanks
  
  PCUnix
  IzzyM
  Amanda Severn
  RedElf
  Habee
  Case1worker
  Sally's Trove
  Dale Hyde
  John Holden
  Seanorjohn
  Cardisa
  That Grrl
  
  Can you start on page 4? https://www.google.com/#q=site:http://h … bee034e5be Panama to white whales if you see the same page as me.
  
  Remember all her work is unpublished, so you will need to look at the cached version.
  
  Mouse hover over url, double right arrows appear to right, then hub appears. Above that to far right says "cached" in blue letters. Click on that to see hub.
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  Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No, I do NOT see the same page.
  
  Also.. what are we doing with these when finished?
  
  I realize that most of you would be incapable of giving her each capsule as she originally did it, but if she can republish here, that would save her time. If she can't, it wouldn't..
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Any better ideas on how to sort out who edits which hub, without typing out a full list of hubs then divvying them up?
  
  I don't have the bandwidth to open that many pages..
  
  We are sending corrected versions to Hanna as we do them. It is up to her what she does with them next, but if HP won't have her back, she can always put them up on Wizzley or somewhere else, which will be a great loss to HP because those hubs are something else!
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  Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe you just hand them out?
  
  As I said before, I don't want ten at a time. I don't know how much time I have so would hate to take ten and only be able to do five.
  
  Also, you say "send them to her" - I don't have her email.
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Right I am going to set up a round robin email thingie so we are all taking this to email.
  
  Once Hanna sends me the csv list, we can divvy up hubs, and even if you are only free to do one or two, that's great, don't worry
  
  I only stuck with lists of 10 because of the Google pages having 10 each on them.
  
  We'll work something out. You can either send your edits to me, or I can give your email to Hanna so that she can contact you direct. It's not up to me to give out her email address.
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habeeposted 13 years ago
I just got an email from HH, and she asked that I say "thanks" to all her hub pals. She's really touched that so many have offered to help her. This type of support is something that I love about the HP community!
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Peter Hogganposted 13 years ago
Add me to the list.
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks Peter.
  
  PCUnix
  IzzyM
  Amanda Severn
  RedElf
  Habee
  Case1worker
  Sally's Trove
  Dale Hyde
  John Holden
  Seanorjohn
  Cardisa
  Peter Hoggan
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Polly Cposted 13 years ago
I would be happy to help with a few. Hello, hello always made the effort to comment on my hubs and I know put a lot of effort into her own. If I had to write a hub in a language that was not my own I would fail miserably at the first hurdle - she has worked so hard and deserves the help. It must be soul destroying to be banned after working so hard.
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks Polly
  
  PCUnix
  IzzyM
  Amanda Severn
  RedElf
  Habee
  Case1worker
  Sally's Trove
  Dale Hyde
  John Holden
  Seanorjohn
  Cardisa
  Peter Hoggan
  Polly C
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  wordscribe43posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You can add me to the list as well.
  
  I REALLY hate to bring this up (because I most certainly do NOT want this to be the case), but from what I understand once you're banned, you're banned. And you aren't allowed to come back.
  
  I suppose the hope here is that HP will make an exception??? I'd like to think so and would very much like to be part of that process, but I'm dubious. I will say that helping her fix her hubs will benefit her wherever she chooses to go. So, I'm in. I just don't want to hold my breath that she'll reappear as "Hello, Hello Again"....
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  Nell Roseposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And me! I have emailed Hanna to have a chat, hopefully this will get sorted out, she is such a nice lady.
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  ethel smithposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  me too for what I am worth
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sofsposted 13 years ago
Wow, it is no wonder that I never hang around anyother place like I hang around at HP... What a community!! You are the best!!
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Very true! We fight together, even if perhaps it's for a losing cause! Respect!
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Doc Snowposted 13 years ago
Sorry to hear this!
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Doc Snowposted 13 years ago
She was very encouraging to me, and I hope this can be redressed. Evidently being a Level 7 commenter doesn't count for anything at all. One suspected that that stuff was all basically 'gold stars,' but still--!
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IzzyMposted 13 years ago
Ok so now we have:

PCUnix
IzzyM
Amanda Severn
RedElf
Habee
Case1worker
Sally's Trove
Dale Hyde
John Holden
Seanorjohn
Cardisa
Peter Hoggan
Polly C
wordscribe43
Nell Rose

And yes we do have the conundrum of perhaps HP not allowing her stuff back on because once banned, you are supposed to be banned for good.

If the worst comes to the worst and she tries to open a new account and is recognised, because let's face it, HP do not have a good track record of checking new hubs - they leave that to us - she will be banned again.

Only this time, she will have a lovely portfolio of hubs to re-use elsewhere.
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  fastfretaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm so sorry to hear about Hello, hello, I really enjoyed the subjects she wrote on. I considered her a really good Hub friend. I offer my support in any way I can, however, not being one of the best writers here, I don't feel qualified to edit any of her hubs. I'm so glad she's receiving so much help. I do hope to see her here again soon.
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Uninvited Writerposted 13 years ago
Sorry, I don't have time to worry about anyone else's writing.

Hopefully, she will learn from everyone helping her and be able to stand on her own two feet soon. If she doesn't, nothing will change for her.

And I don't mean that as an attack, just an honest comment.
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skyfireposted 13 years ago
Use evernote (at evernote.com) and copy your hubs in online notepad. That is another alternative if you're using browser other than firefox and chrome.
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ethel smithposted 13 years ago
Folks I have not had time to read all of these posts in this thread but here is my slant. HH has been a great member of Hubpages. So many sites in their infancy allow grammar slip ups and the like. They are in effect usig the people involved. Helium did this when it first started.

Then it began to get picky. My writing with time has hopefully improved but we are all different. My buddy HH is no spring chicken, like me, but more so. Her first language is German. She faithfully reads other peoples hubs and offers what support she can. I am sad to see that she is now banned from Hubpages. It ay be the sites perogative but when it is a non abusive member like HH it does seem harsh. Surely after suach a long time on the site she deserves better than that?

She has a blog at my site where as I have told her she will always have a place.This includes a German page where she writes in her native tongue.She is not the most Internet savvy person which is what stops her following some of the advice given in this thread. That should not mean that she is left out in the cold, should it? Sorry for the ramble
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You are a good person to help Hannah in that manner, Ethel! I admire your generosity, unselfishness, and most of all, loyalty to her. Thank you!
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  ethel smithposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hey I am not. I just like fair play. She has been a true and loyal friend to me since we met virtually on here. She contributes useful stuff to the site. Cant say the sites name here though as it is against the rules. It is on my profile
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That's what I'm thanking you for, because you like fair play. There seems to be a severe lack of it these days, especially on content sites.
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  Lisa HWposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'd agree that she's always reading and commenting on other people's Hubs. I'd agree about the "useful stuff" (and also unique stuff). One of her Hubs involved recalling being a child in Europe at the end of WWII. I've always remembered that one because I was born after WWII, but my parents had been through it. I found Hh's first-hand account of the experience (what she recalls of it) as, I think, a five-year-old (or so) to be something we don't see a lot of these days.
  
  Computer-savvy or not, perfect English grammar or not - her stuff is interesting and not about the usual, run-of-the-mill, stuff that "everybody else" writes.
  
  To you folks who are helping with Hh's stuff: What an amazing team of folks you are. (Nobody needs me to say that, but I'm saying it anyway. )
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habeeposted 13 years ago
Hey, guys - I'm working on Hanna's hubs. I call all the horse hubs!!
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What ones has RedElf done? We should really say what ones have been done so we can divvie them up. I don't even know how to go about looking for her hub groups. I would just start on the first one shown and work from there, but we'd all end up doing them same ones over and over. Any ideas?
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  ethel smithposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah great job Habee
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  ethel smithposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It will only work though folks if Hubpages allow this. I get the feeling from HH that they wont
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Oh well even if they don't, Hanna will have something to post on other sites, like Wizzley.
  
  I have started working on all the hubs on page 12 of Google - https: //www.google.com/#q=site:http://hellohello.hubpages.com&hl=en&prmd=imvns&ei=KZ8MT4mXLYmWOq6qyKYH&start=110&sa=N&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.,cf.osb&fp=a832e4bee034e5be&biw=1600&bih=732
  
  What I suggest is that everyone who volunteered takes a different page, and don't touch the horses because Habee is doing them.
  
  I am assuming everyone sees the same pages as me? Of course, maybe not with all this Google localised nonsense.
  
  Ok
  1. https: //www.google.com/#q=site:http://hellohello.hubpages.com&hl=en&prmd=imvns&ei=-KoMT76ZDsTqOZyH9aYH&start=0&sa=N&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.,cf.osb&fp=a832e4bee034e5be&biw=1600&bih=732
  2. https: //www.google.com/#q=site:http://hellohello.hubpages.com&hl=en&prmd=imvns&ei=_KoMT7H5MsXqOf_h-ZsH&start=10&sa=N&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.,cf.osb&fp=a832e4bee034e5be&biw=1600&bih=732
  3. https: //www.google.com/#q=site:http://hellohello.hubpages.com&hl=en&prmd=imvns&ei=M6sMT5OUL8fsOf60pLcH&start=20&sa=N&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.,cf.osb&fp=a832e4bee034e5be&biw=1600&bih=732
  4. https: //www.google.com/#q=site:http://hellohello.hubpages.com&hl=en&prmd=imvns&ei=ZasMT83ENsyXOpev3JoH&start=30&sa=N&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.,cf.osb&fp=a832e4bee034e5be&biw=1600&bih=732
  5. https: //www.google.com/#q=site:http://hellohello.hubpages.com&hl=en&prmd=imvns&ei=k6sMT-esO8WbOofYwJIH&start=40&sa=N&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.,cf.osb&fp=a832e4bee034e5be&biw=1600&bih=732
  6. https: //www.google.com/#q=site:http://hellohello.hubpages.com&hl=en&prmd=imvns&ei=rKsMT8DUJoKgOqD1wbEH&start=50&sa=N&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.,cf.osb&fp=a832e4bee034e5be&biw=1600&bih=732
  7. https: //www.google.com/#q=site:http://hellohello.hubpages.com&hl=en&prmd=imvns&ei=2KsMT6WME8nrOYe_va8H&start=60&sa=N&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.,cf.osb&fp=a832e4bee034e5be&biw=1600&bih=732
  8. https: //www.google.com/#q=site:http://hellohello.hubpages.com&hl=en&prmd=imvns&ei=-qsMT8qOKciCOv_S1JoH&start=70&sa=N&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.,cf.osb&fp=a832e4bee034e5be&biw=1600&bih=732
  9. https: //www.google.com/#q=site:http://hellohello.hubpages.com&hl=en&prmd=imvns&ei=DqwMT6PFK8idOqKCpbkH&start=80&sa=N&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.,cf.osb&fp=a832e4bee034e5be&biw=1600&bih=732
  10. https: //www.google.com/#q=site:http://hellohello.hubpages.com&hl=en&prmd=imvns&ei=JKwMT7H0HIacOvDyxK0H&start=90&sa=N&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.,cf.osb&fp=a832e4bee034e5be&biw=1600&bih=732
  11. https: //www.google.com/#q=site:http://hellohello.hubpages.com&hl=en&prmd=imvns&ei=TKwMT-33IsiEOtiDwK8H&start=100&sa=N&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.,cf.osb&fp=a832e4bee034e5be&biw=1600&bih=732
  12.
  13. https: //www.google.com/#q=site:http://hellohello.hubpages.com&hl=en&prmd=imvns&ei=XqwMT4uxJYiBOsue_K0H&start=120&sa=N&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.,cf.osb&fp=a832e4bee034e5be&biw=1600&bih=732
  14. https: //www.google.com/#q=site:http://hellohello.hubpages.com&hl=en&prmd=imvns&ei=qKwMT7TPJsOfOq69yLAH&start=130&sa=N&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.,cf.osb&fp=a832e4bee034e5be&biw=1600&bih=732
  15.
  https: //www.google.com/#q=site:http://hellohello.hubpages.com&hl=en&prmd=imvns&ei=7KwMT5OCI8LoOf2otLIH&start=140&sa=N&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.,cf.osb&fp=a832e4bee034e5be&biw=1600&bih=732
  
  There are 10 on each page. Could we please hear it from the volunteers what page you are taking, or even what half-page you are taking. This is still only a fraction of the hubs, but judging from the ones I have done so far, they have already been corrected, else they are not so bad because this is easy.
  
  You do all know that to find the hub, you hover your mouse over any link on the page, a double arrow opens to the right and the hub appears. Above it says 'cache'. Click on that to open (right click open in new tab is easiest), then copy paste the hub into your word processor. Remember to copy the title too! When you are done you can send them to me to pass on if you don't have Hanna's address. I believe she has Word although I don't know yet what version. Different Word versions are backwards compatible, but not forwards. ie With my Word 97 I can open a text file made in Word 93 but not vice-versa. If using word is might be best to save your edit in rich text format (.rtf) as that is readable by all text editors.
  
  I broke all the links so as not to annoy hubstaff!
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Doc Snowposted 13 years ago
Well, I'd be glad to do some editing as well--though I have to admit, I'd prefer it if we could have a little more clarity around the whole situation before setting to work.
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paradigmsearchposted 13 years ago
I just thought that I'd toss out the fact the hello, hello's profile was a PR 4 before all these editing adventures started... I am nonplussed by it all. I hope it ends all good.
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Wow! So Google must have liked her stuff after all (or at least it was well-linked in)!
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wordscribe43posted 13 years ago
I'm not seeing what you see, Izzy. But, I just searched her site like so: site:ht tp://hellohello.hubpages.com

I'd like to take the hubs from Hedgehog to Lipizzaner that show up on page 22 of the search above. Does that make sense? How did you discover some hubs had already been corrected?

What do we do when we're done with them?

EDIT: I just finished my first one and it took me all of 13 minutes.
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  habeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Don't do the horse hubs!
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  wordscribe43posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Oh... I already KNOW THAT, Habee. I saw one and said to myself: "Oh no you didn't!"
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  wordscribe43posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Just finished two: Hedgehogs and Hohenschwangau - King Ludwig's Castle. Just emailed them off to her and asked how she'd like to receive the rest....
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  One of the ones I was working on did not need any corrections apart from the odd missing, or in the wrong place, comma.
  
  She's been getting hubs unpublished since November, so perhaps she got a couple fixed up by someone else between then and now.
  
  We're not changing her hubs, they are good in my opinion, we are just sorting out the odd grammatical/spelling error.
  
  Some are worse than others.
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  wordscribe43posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Agree, mine weren't bad at all. Did you understand my explanation of the ones I'm doing?
  
  I'm doing page 22 when you search her site like this (broken link): site:ht tp://hellohello.hubpages.com
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Excellent, but are you seeing the same ones as me? (I don't know if this Google localizaton thing messes up those results) - https://www.google.com/#q=site:http://h … mp;bih=732
  
  That one starts with Hyenas and ends with Chile
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paradigmsearchposted 13 years ago
Just another comment. Virtually all sites (so it seems to me) have become real pk's recently as to content. There could actually come a day where all "top" sites require a 4-year college degree. Things keep evolving. And things keep getting harder. Not to mention the complexity of life in general. I am at the age where hopefully I will checkout just in time...
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FloraBreenRobisonposted 13 years ago
When I see hubs that have errors, I guess the person doesn't know how to correct them and needs help. When I read a hub that is spam, a personal attack, spun, a huge number of ads with very little text written, I flag them.
Regarding Google, I joined after Panda, so I have no way of knowing how my hubs would be doing had they been written before. I think it is a good lesson in making sure you have a back up plan to pay your bills. I have decided that online writing will not be my main source of income, only extra, as the amount of time it would take to make Google put me on the first page is such I'd get paid about $1 an hour for my troubles.
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paradigmsearchposted 13 years ago
And a note to HP.

I am an entertaining and thoughtful guy.

Any chance I could be paid to continue posting here?

I'd of gone email, but I did not want to spam you in that I know I am currently a mess.

But I am darn good at times.
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WriteAngledposted 13 years ago
Sorry if this offends,

It is one thing to contribute to forums, hub comments and such-like.

It is another thing to try and publish quality content.

I have no personal knowledge of this hubber whatsoever. I question the assumption that the fact a person places comments on numerous hubs can excuse them from the necessity to pass a very basic quality control in order to publish hubs, so as to prevent the appearance of content that is linguistically incompetent.

I translate out of seven languages and this is the way I have been making my living since the start of 2004. I would not dream of submitting content to a web site in any of my source languages. My native language is English and if I write original web content, this is the language in which I must be judged.

Does not the whole "hello,hello" scenario derive from the mistaken belief that someone who contributes on forums and hub comments has the right to publish, even if they are linguistically incompetent?

If Google Panda or whatever has started to impose a linguistic quality control, I am happy. I am sick of landing on sites with broken English. I certainly do not think that Hubpges should condone such material.
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  paradigmsearchposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I have noted your expertise in the past. Do you do finder's fees?
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  82
  WriteAngledposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Duh??? Que???
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  61
  paradigmsearchposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Noted.
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  paradigmsearchposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I've been told I use emoticons too much.
  
  I mean that I will be happy to forward you a lead.
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2. 60
  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Heck, some of us help others who deserve it, WA! Shoot, we might even be able to help you get some accolades on your profile page!
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  WriteAngledposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  My point is that people seem to think it is OK for someone to publish material with lots of grammatical and spelling errors in it. Poorly written content devalues a site as much as spam does. I have nothing against people helping people, but the help should come before a piece is published, not after.
  
  As for accolades, I have deliberately switched them off in my public profile, because I think they are nonsense. I do however have eleven of the things.
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3. 63
  Lisa HWposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm as big a stickler for correct grammar (or at least aiming for it) as the next stickler for grammar is; but I think the "Hello, hello scenario" derives from the very correct belief that sometimes some people deserve a little bit of break - and this lady is one that so many on here believe deserves that break. She hasn't been a Hubber who's on the forums very often. She's got 400 Hubs that are, as far as I know, what Hubs are supposed to be (except for the relatively minor grammar mistakes, even if they're not rare throughout the Hubs). Her Hubs aren't in broken English. They're just not in perfect English. People who have been familiar with Hh's Hubs wouldn't view her Hubs as "devaluing" the site at all, even with the grammar flaws.
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  Polly Cposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Agreed, Hello,hello's hubs are certainly not the worst I have read, regarding grammar. I am also a real stickler for correct grammar and spelling. The truth is that anything that falls short of this usually leaves me believing that the page is poor quality and the facts might not even be right and can't be trusted.
  
  However, Hello, hello has put an immense amount of effort into her hubs and it is clear that they are well-researched and not just churned out. She writes on interesting subjects and the hubs are generally well-presented. It is obvious that she has already made a real effort to write with correct grammar and I think the help is deserved. Most of us are so lucky that English is our native language because it is the language that most of the world communicates in. If that was not the case then our own writing opportunities would be greatly limited.
  
  I have read many hubs with worse grammar issues than Hello, hello's. Not to say that the mistakes aren't obvious but I do think she should be given a break and the opportunity to remain here once the hubs are corrected.
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paradigmsearchposted 13 years ago
IzzyM, we need to get you unsandboxed.
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1. 83
  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That would be nice, but my traffic has just tumbled again! Nice, eh? Still, leaves me more time to get on with other things.
  
  I was lopping down oleander bushes in the garden this evening, when I noticed my hands seemed to be covered in blood. It felt sticky like blood too. They were halfway to my mouth before I realised that the red color wasn't real, it was only a reflection of the setting sun.
  
  Very nearly a fatal case of self-poisoning there!!
  
  Oleander sap can kill.
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IzzyMposted 13 years ago
Right, we now have Dale taking page 3 from that list posted. I have a note, so there is no need for overlaps. Anyone else?
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