Whats happened to Cagsil??

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   BRIAN SLATERposted 13 years ago

   I believe Cags has been banned, apparently he doesn't know the reason why and Hp's will not answer him, do you think this is right.

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      qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Absolutely not!
      I was banned 2-3 times and didn't know why.
      I just got notice I was being banned and for how long.
      HB staff should explain why and the comment that caused the ban.
      Qwark

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         BRIAN SLATERposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         You really should know the reason why you are being banned-this is ridiculous.

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         BRIAN SLATERposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Quite agree with you Quark- good luck to you.

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   BRIAN SLATERposted 13 years ago

   Cags is one of the most reliable people who always has a welcome for fellow hubbers why are is he being treated so disrespectful.

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   theherbivorehippiposted 13 years ago

   What?  Is he really?  I was banned once but I deserved it...lol.  Cagsil is always so helpful....and patient!

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      BRIAN SLATERposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      yes, spoke to him-he has been banned, doesn't know what he has done wrong. He has tried e-mailing HP's but they aren't answering him. This is so disrespectful to a hubber who does his upmost to help fellow hubbers.

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         theherbivorehippiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Wow...that crazy.  As I'm always reading forums and refraining from all my sarcastic remarks I really want to leave for repetitive and just plain ridiculous questions....Cagsil is there welcoming people and answering.  I can't imagine him doing anything to get banned.

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         kimberlyslyricsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         he just opened  a thread
         
         ddidn't know he was banned when i made joke of him in my hub
         
         sorry baby glad your back
         
         that damn feed!

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      BRIAN SLATERposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Can't believe you have ever been banned-  yes Cags has been banned and they will n't say why!!!. Come on Hp's tell Cagsil the real reason.

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         theherbivorehippiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         lol...yeah my temper got the best of me.  I had to avoid the forums quite often, I just have no tolerance for ignorance.

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            BRIAN SLATERposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            how can such a soft pretty face have a roar like a lion

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               theherbivorehippiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Awe....thanks.  I am a Leo after all.  The fact that I'm Italian and Irish may contribute as well. 

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                  BRIAN SLATERposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Oh what a mixture, I will watch what I say to you from now on. Grrrrrr Wait a minute aren't Leo's soft and cuddly?

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   Aficionadaposted 13 years ago

   I'm sure it's frustrating for that to happen, and I agree that someone should be told what the offense was that caused the banning.  From what I have read in the past (and it may not be true any more), it is pretty easy to get someone banned.  For a while, there was an active forum thread asking that the name of "banning" be changed to something less dire-sounding.  Something like "time out" or something of the sort.
   
   But, to Cagsil's case.  Like all the rest of us, he is multi-faceted, and sometimes his comments that may be intended as objective statements come across as belittling or insulting of others.  I think that effect tends to be magnified online, where we don't have the advantage of seeing facial expression and body language to help interpret words.
   
   Immediately after someone announced that he had been banned, I looked back to see what comments he had made just prior to that time that could have caused it.  There seemed to be one that might have been taken as a personal insult, but I don't know that it was.
   
   I have seen other helpful Hubbers get banned for what seemed to be no reason.  Maybe at some point the banning system will be revised.  But honestly, there are other HP revisions that are more important to me right now!  lol
   
   To quote Cagsil, "I hope that helps." 

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      theherbivorehippiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      lol...I like the "time out" idea.

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         Aficionadaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         
         
         Me too!  "Banned" sounds so drastic!
         
         But even then, it seems to me only fair for the person to know why.  If we don't know what we've done wrong, how can we avoid doing it again?
         
         On the other hand, I can see a lot of arguments ensuing if one person interpreted a comment as an insult and then a whole group of Hubbers on the other side ganged up on that one. 
         
         I think this is one of those situations that is harder than most to administer - and that's saying a lot!

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      BRIAN SLATERposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      you are very kind Aficionado and thankyou for speaking up. Yes I agree with you Hp's does have a lot on it's hands at the moment but Cagsil like anyone else also deserves to know the reason behind the ban. This is hubpages at its very worst.

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   Home Girlposted 13 years ago

   i thought Cagsil was always "politically correct" I can't believe this happening. Some  "sesnsitive" jerk probably complained to HP.  O tempora o mores!

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      BRIAN SLATERposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      you are probably correct-mores the pity, but hp's should let him know the reason out of politeness, don't you agree.

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   Jason Menayanposted 13 years ago

   Just to clarify: if you're banned from the forums, you're told explicitly when your forum privileges are to be reinstated, and which post caused the violation (when you try to post again).

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      BRIAN SLATERposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Thankyou Jason for this reply, but wouldn't it be a good idea to tell hubbers straight away the reason(s) why. Cagsil cannot think what he has done to deserve such treatment.

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         Jason Menayanposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         It's not about deserving such treatment; if you make a violation, then we apply the rules. Then we make it clear the next time you try to post what post triggered the ban.
         
         All you have to do to avoid ever getting (temporarily) banned is avoid making personal attacks.

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            BRIAN SLATERposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Jason - thank you for the clarification, just informed Cags of what you said.

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               Cardisaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               I can't imagine Cagsil making personal attacks, it's not like him.

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         Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Jason is quite correct and most likely Cagsil has been pointed to the offending post and has been told when his privileges will be reinstated.
         
         But, I think the point is not so much that but more along the lines that Cagsil is confused as to why his comments have been deemed inappropriate to warrant a banning.
         
         Jason has explained that "personal attacks" are the issue.
         
         Therefore, there are two issues to consider:
         
         1. What is a personal attack?
         2. Who is reporting them and how often are they reported?
         
         As for the second issue, I rarely if ever report anyone for personal attacks, even though I receive them repeatedly.
         
         The first issue is where the majority of confusion lies, not only for forum members, but also for those mods who initiate the banning.
         
         And, it is this issue that is vital for everyone to come to agreement if fair and equitable bannings are to be invoked amongst the members here so that they can agree if and when they get banned that they have indeed violated that rule.
         
         Of course, it is understandable that mods have a great deal to do here and are far too busy to put to committee each and every complaint of personal attacks.
         
         However, if a committee were to clarify exactly what constitutes a personal attack, members like Cagsil  would not likely have ever made such a comment and would not be confused as to why he was banned.
         
         There is a lot of information regarding what is and what isn't a personal attack. Why not take the time to clarify using the resources already available?
         
         
         
         

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      Wesman Todd Shawposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      When I was banned from the forums - I was told via an answer to a question in the q and a section.  I assumed that I was PERMANENTLY banned from the forums.  I never got an e mail about it at all.

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         BRIAN SLATERposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Interesting, Cags has said that he has emailed 4 people at hp's for the reason and hasn't received a reply.

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            Wesman Todd Shawposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Those folks are pretty busy, I'm sure.  Once, concerning a unpublished hub of mine - I wrote to staff about it four times.  Once on each of the four days following that hub being "unpublished."  After the first message, all of the rest I'd title in caps, "SECOND MESSAGE," "THIRD MESSAGE," "FOURTH MESSAGE."
            
            When they finally did get back to me - they were very nice about the whole thing, apologetic even.
            
            I used to be HP staff bashed . . . .well, I sort of had a vendetta, and expected to be kicked off of this site at some point. . . .but really, as of now, I don't have any real issues with staff.  I think they do a pretty good job, and possibly an amazing job.  This is a huge website, . . . .but there isn't many folks on the official payroll.

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         Aficionadaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         
         But, to be fair, Jason didn't say anything about an e-mail, did he?  Neither did TMM or earnest.
         
         Frankly, whether Cagsil knows why or not, I really don't think it's a good idea to share with other Hubbers the reason - because of what I stated above.  It seems to me that it would just lead to more wars than we already have. Not a good idea.

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      Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      The only time I was banned I was given the post which caused the ban.  Of course, it was nonsense because neither I, nor the other two banned members, reported the others and couldn't see what in the heck caused the ban.
      
      But heck, we may ban HubPages before it's over and done.  What goes around.....! 

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   TMMasonposted 13 years ago

   I have been banned multiple times and though I have my issues with the mods, they always told me why, and they always discussed it with me to make sure the reason was understood between us.
   
   And I do not get along with the mods, so if I am telling you this, then take it for what it is worth.
   
   I might not like what they do... but they are okay about telling you why your banned in my book. Even if you dont agre with that reason.

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   earnestshubposted 13 years ago

   I have always been shown the offending post and been told how long the ban is for.
   I am disappointed that Cags got banned, he is more helpful than most in the forums.
   
   I will bet we have the same mindless fundies behind the bans as always.

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      BRIAN SLATERposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      hi earnest-- Cags has said that the ban is for 7 days, but according to him he doesn't understand the reason why. He has obviously offended someone with his comment but he can't think who it might be.

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   rebekahELLEposted 13 years ago

   I'm sure he has a pretty good idea of who he offended if HP includes the offending post.

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    Home Girlposted 13 years ago

    So, you can insult everybody by pushing your stupid, sometimes dangerous ideas to the public but no one can tell you back, as long as you are insulting everybody at once but nobody personally? H-m-m-m-m-m-m????????? Something is not right. But who am I to judge? Do I have a right to judge? Do I have a right to a personal opinion? I guess,not unless I am a MP in Canada,they tell their personal opinions right and left without trying to be polite, the rest of us - keep smiling.... and keep your mouth shut. America - the land of free spirit, where are you???

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       TMMasonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       I have two words for you homie... "Berkely California" the home of Hubs.

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       Shadesbreathposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       It's not about that. And it doesn't even matter if the forum mods are inept or random in enforcing rules.
       
       The problem is that people no longer make respectful arguments. We are a combative, pro sports, "reality" TV, ultra litigious culture that is more interested in a "win" than in truth.
       
       The reason the forums are as you describe is that nobody cares about anyone else. We all just want to vomit our opinions into cyber space because we all FEEL like we do. There are no consequences to what we say because all these other people are just stupid names, not even real names, but lame screen names, so we can spew hate and vitriol with impunity because our avatar is anonymous and we can't see the expression that a-hole's face when we spray the most base parts of our emotional selves at them, we can't see any harm we do.  We get to be cowards online. We can be rattlesnakes and vipers.... F---- that guy, I'm pissed off and he can just eat THIS comment.  Muahahahaaaa.
       
       Nothing he can do. I'm safe. I'm anonymous. And I am not thinking or reading or challenging my beliefs.
       
       It only gets worse until all this emptiness and reflexive, propagandist, dogma born hate plays out and enough people realize that hurting each other doesn't fix anything. Sadly, I think we're going to have a long wait.

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          Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Rattlesnakes and vipers, eh?  Compared to human beings, serpents are not so bad unless you step on one. 
          
          But near-sighted beer drinking spermatozoa cartoons? Well.....folks just naturally sit up and take notice when they lecture! 

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             Shadesbreathposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             Hey, I resemble that remark!

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    Rafiniposted 13 years ago

    

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    K9keystrokesposted 13 years ago

    Cags is missed very much. He will be back! And then the sun can shine again...Miss you buddy! (())

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    hp rebelposted 13 years ago

    FYI, Cagsil got banned from the posting in the forums for leaving smarta** comments, (most notably on the forum question "Is Gay Rights Being Overrated") and then leading a petition to have the individual who posted the question removed from the site after a heated word exchange that he initiated and karma came back to bite him in the a** (hard). And he's too embarassed to tell you guys. That's all I can say.

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       Uninvited Writerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Bye... I'd like to say it's been nice knowing you, but I can't.

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       wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       You went to the time and effort to join HP for the sole purpose of denigrating one of the most helpful and finest writers here?  Now that's what I call a real winner!
       
       Wonder how many more socks you have in the closet....
       
       As UW says, bye.

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          earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          and it's goodbye from me too, and I haven't even bothered to meet you!!

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             wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             Now this reply (to me) hurts!
             
             Although I note in another thread that you are, or were, or tried to be (not real sure) that sub-human known as a politician.  Perhaps it's best after all.

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                earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                Steady on there wilderness, the comment was meant to be in agreement with yours!
                
                Don't you think there are any decent politicians?
                
                I have never been one, but would hate to think they are all bad, or that decent people shouldn't run for office.

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                   wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                   Yeah, I knew that - just had to rag you a little.
                   
                   There probably are decent politicians, at least in small communities and towns.  I've even known a few.  I may not agree with their politics, but they are often good, decent people.
                   
                   The problem begins when it is worth something, either power or money, to hold office.  At that point it seems that power and money corrupt and nearly all decency leaves the stage.  It's almost as if the decent politician must become corrupted to climb the ladder.  Or so I see it.

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                      dutchman1951posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                      I think you have it spot on Wilderness. good take on it.

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                         earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                         Money or power seem to make people turn. Not all of them, but no doubt power corrupts many people.

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                            hp rebelposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                            HAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHA!!! The HP Rebel Strikes again!!!

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       SomewayOuttaHereposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       ...heck...might as well join in on the hospitality and send my regards too - au revoir!

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       LeanManposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       I think the thread in question was more to do with another individual who got VERY abusive and VERY personal, In my mind Cags held his tongue (typing finger) very well in the face of this mindless, clueless moron (was that a personal attack or am I just stating facts?)
       I am sorry but if someone was making repeated comments about me in a thread and was not promptly removed I would not hold my tongue for long and believe me I would not have been as polite as Cags was! and as to sending emails directly to Cags, well the individual should be banned for life!!!! (Not able to return with a new name just to continue their vendetta - don't you agree Hp Rebel. It is far to easy to just get a new account if you are banned can't you HP Rebel!)
       Those people that have nothing better to do with their lives than abuse others for no reason should go out and get a life, do something useful with their time not come on here just to wind people up and cause trouble like a school kid! Grow up!
       From what I have seen of Cags' replies on forums he has always been helpful and tolerant of most people, but even a saint would not be able to hold their tongue in the face of some of these idiots!
       Looking forward to your return Cags... and I hope that HP will be able to just point out to you in a timely manner what has caused your ban, after all I thought we were all innocent until proven guilty and had a right to defend ourselves!

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          Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Actually we have very little in the way of expectations for fairness here, LeanMan. HP doesn't guarantee fairness at any point, nor is there anything we can do to make them explain their position.
          
          I've learned this the hard way via my experiences on other content sites.  Everything HP does is for their own benefit.  As writers, we are expendable and easily replaced by other hopeful, but necessarily naive, authors.
          
          Some of us do feel the members here are "family" in a certain type of way, and we do try to look out for each other as best we can.  But never consider any staff member as such or you'll regret it sooner or later.  It's just business. 
          Sad, ain't it!

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       Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Yadda yadda yadda!
       
       
       ps-I think there's a booger on your finger.

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    Diane Insideposted 13 years ago

    Cagsil knows why he was banned.
    
    It all boils down to the fact that you should have a civil conversation. Don't call people names. Don't insinuate how inept or ignorant they are and don't make people feel like you are better than them just because their views are different than yours.
    
    Cagsil does this all the time, and he finally got banned for it.
    
    I know you all rave about him but honestly he has on many occasions done everything I just said. 
    
    Besides the banning is only for a few days then he will back here doing the same thing.  Many people do around here it seems.
    
    I boggles my mind how so many people do this its like were in high school. Instead of Adults.
    
    I'd love to see quite a few people act like adults and quit name calling.
    
    Oh they don't actually say it, they just insinuate, so as not to get banned but people are not stupid they know what they are doing.
    
    I know so many will balk at this post but I'm just saying it the way I see it.

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       Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Since you freely admit to having a boggled mind, I will not bother to balk at your post. 
       
       You being all adult and everything.

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          kimberlyslyricsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          
          
          
          

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             earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             Yep! Do anything for too long and sh*t happens.
             Living has that fatal edge to it.

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             Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             Ain't it the truth, Kim! 
             Ain't it the truth! 

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    Home Girlposted 13 years ago

    

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    BRIAN SLATERposted 13 years ago

    I have never as yet been banned from Hp's but my understanding is if you violate the TOS you may be given a ban depending on the severity of what has happened. I have no issue with this, when you sign up you have to accept the rules and regulations of the site.
    Under normal banning procedure as far as I have gleamed the offender gets notice when they try to sign in again and receive an email detailing the reasons and the length of ban. This sounds all well and good,clear and concise.
    Cagsil was notified of his 7 day ban but you are supposed to see some kind of "pop up" screen" telling which thread has caused you to receive your ban. This is where the break down in communication has caused Cagsil  quite a lot of distress. From Jason's replies he is aware that it was a ban for a "personal attack" on a member. Cagsil didn't receive the "pop up" screen of the reasons and that is why he e-mailed Hp's 4 times without reply for the reason(s) for his ban.
    It has transpired that the fellow who reported Cagsil has still continued to harass him through his email and by calling him in the forums. This person in my opinion is the one who should be banned because if you read the original thread that Cagsil received his ban for you will read that Cagsil tried to avoid any confrontation.
    Clearly this highlights one major problem for Hp's. Since the loss of so many excellent hubbers who sort of marshalled the forums and self regulated them they are at a loss for a good PR man which they now need.
    
    I will not call Jason who has stepped into the breach to help Hp's since Panda but he in his own admission is not the best person for communicating with hubbers during a dispute. Cagsil's ban will be over soon, but hubpages problems will continue if they do not address some very serious communication issues.
    
    I think that Cagsil has been treated poorly over this incident and the sooner his ban ends the better.

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       Jason Menayanposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       To clear up a few things in your message (note I'm using the "impersonal you", not directing this to you in particular):
       
       * The length of the ban has to do with how many times you've been banned before (i.e. starting at 1 day the first time, 3 days the second time, etc.).
       
       * Moderators look at the entire vein of a reported thread and will take action accordingly against all violators. Other people who might not be complaining about the ban might have been banned as well.
       
       * The moderators have a policy of avoiding talking about the specifics of a person's ban or moderation in this open forum, one I'd like to respect.
       
       * If you have questions about a specific moderation, we would appreciate you directing your question to team@. Emailing everyone on staff that you have the email address for will not speed things up.

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    earnestshubposted 13 years ago

    I saw the original communication and email as well, and I agree with all you have said here.

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       BRIAN SLATERposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Thank you earnest

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    IzzyMposted 13 years ago

    If the poster hprebel is Cags's antagonist, come back as a sock puppet to further email and intimidate Cagsil, then he should have been banned from the site before now, but he is still here.

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    DIYweddingplannerposted 13 years ago

    I will admit to my own naivety, but I really don't understand why people who are abusive in the forums and are not real hubbers continue to be allowed to participate here.  There are a couple of particularly annoying commentors on the forums who start inflammatory political threads and name call anyone who disagrees with them.  All that happens is that they get banned and come back with another identity.  I personally have had other hubbers come to my defense when these people were behaving like jerks in the forums. It's kind of sad that hubbers have to defend other hubbers or that staff are not in tune to what's going on in the forums enough to recognize people who get banned and continue to come back over and over again.  It's been suggested that banning people through IP address would be more beneficial, but nothing has ever come from that.
    Cags is a legitimate hubber and has been helpful to numerous ones of us in the past. He is blunt and outspoken, but he is a writer and contributes to this site through more than posting ultra-conservative drivel and no hubs like some who are allowed here.

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       TMMasonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       And no-one on the Left qualifies for banning?
       
       I just find the remark "ulta-Consevative", as discription of who alone causes trouble, very one sided and biased. Especially in light of this remark, "There are a couple of particularly annoying commentors on the forums who start inflammatory political threads and name call anyone who disagrees with them." There are people on the Left, in the middle, and all over the spectrum, who also do the same thing you point to here.
       
       So...

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          DIYweddingplannerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          DING! DING! DING!

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             TMMasonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             Yup, very telling. You would be happy if only Lean Leftists could opine on  here, then there would be no threat to your lil world. But too bad, public forum. have a good day DIY.
             
             And I post hubs all the time, and write on other sites also, and have been here on hubs quite a while. So... too bad.

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                recommend1posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                Martyrdom doesn't suit you at all, it hangs off you like an old fat woman's belly skin.  You know EVERYONE means you old chum, "ask not for whom the bell tolls . . . . . .

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                   TMMasonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                   I do not really care what you all like or do not like about me or my opnions. And that is most definitly a fact. Hahaha lollllll!
                   
                   I know I am doing what I should, and what is right, when you all piss and moan about me.

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          TamCorposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Gotta agree here...this vitriol comes from both sides--in both the political and the religion threads.  It's not one-sided by any means.

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             DIYweddingplannerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             No one said it didn't, but if people seek real change, they are wasting their breath here.  Run for office, do things to cause positive changes in your community and world.  But spending the day online arguing with people you will never see or meet and mostly don't even care about what you think is your holy mission is beyond a waste of time.

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                TamCorposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                You said "posting ultra-conservative drivel"...TMMason pointed out that it wasn't just conservatives. I was merely agreeing with him.
                
                And I agree with you about arguing online, but a lot of people enjoy it, soooooo....live and let live.

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                   TMMasonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                   Agreeing with me about anything on here will make them all mad at you, Tam.
                   
                   Which proves my point. But that is niether here nor there at the moment.
                   
                   You are a very brave soul.
                   
                   Thank you for pointing that out, though.
                   
                   I hope you are having a good day.
                   
                   And I enjoy debating in the Forums, which is what I thought they were here for.

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                      TamCorposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                      lol...Well, for once I guess I'm living dangerously...took me almost 52 years, but better late than never?
                      
                      Really, though--it IS true. I mean we've had LadyLove on one side, and Lovemychris on the other of the political threads, and both are about as extreme as you can get, and have been known to throw out insults on occasion...Of course, they aren't the only two, either!  
                      
                      Nice to meet you, and I hope you continue to have fun with your debating!

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             SomewayOuttaHereposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                   i agree TamCor
             
             from a leant lefty leaning leftist

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                TMMasonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                You know I Copy-Righted that. I am waiting for the right as we speak. If you google it you will fnd it is a TMMason original. Wait till the t-shirts come out.
                
                All you leftists who would like to wear it proudly let me know and I will lease the rights for a small percantage.

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                   SomewayOuttaHereposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                   ...how much?....i like that expression - it gives me a chuckle every time!...thanks

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                      TMMasonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                      We would have to discuss it, as it would probrably change depending on sales and other factors. But I am glad you like it SOT. I think it is going to make me rich, God I love Capitalism! I can see it now on all the campuses around the country, Berkely Columbia yale harvard...  "Proud Leant Leftist", "Leant Leftist 4-Life", "Leant Left- it's all matter of degrees", etc,... etc,...

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    DIYweddingplannerposted 13 years ago

    Harassment is exactly what we were talking about in Cags situation. So here we go...

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       TMMasonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       The e-mail sent to Cags should have got anyone, no matter their political or religious views, banned. And me and Cags get along very well, we debate fiercly and with whole heartedness, and then move on. It has been like that since I arrived and will remain so.
       
       And stating one's opinions is not harrassment. Just cause someone will not be forced to agree with you all, doesn't make it harassment.

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          DIYweddingplannerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          I wasn't referring to stating one's opinions.  I was referring to resorting to name calling and rudeness when those opinions are challenged.

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             TMMasonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             On that I agree, DIY. And as I said, to send e-mails like that to anyone, from anyone, deserves harsh banning, for life, I would say. Didn't that guy send another to another hubber? I thought he had sent a couple few?

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