What Happened?

1. 72

   Kangaroo_Jaseposted 14 years ago

   I haven't been around much the last few weeks due to events (very positive) happening in my life.
   
   I come back to HP and find a few changes have occurred.
   
   I sense a significant shift, even may be a paradigm shift. If this is the case, then it sits with me with unease and with much angst.
   
   I refer to all that has happened here with both the hard working staff at HP HQ and with a number of writers here, or as it seems to be the case, a USED to be significant number of writers, whom may or may NOT any longer be here.
   
   The shift has become rather almost like an avalanche and an earthquake in one hit, and that one hit has happened over a few weeks.
   
   With the following expression of my opinion here in this forum post you will find the following to begin with as an outcome.
   
   Am I espousing an opine of being thoroughly supportive of HubPages Staff? - You betcha
   
   Will I be espousing an opine of being thoroughly supportive of with the writers here on this site, such as myself? - You betcha as well.
   
   
   So what is this loss I see. Well for one, the community has become highly fractured, touting banter back and forth with bickering, opinion and delusions of not being listened to or supported enough.
   
   What did I miss, did IQ's suddenly drop whilst I was away for a short period of time?
   
   Let me suggest one thing, EVERYONE on this site has been adversely affected by the Google Farmer/Panda update. Seriously, as most writers here are financially motivated, alot of long term Hubbers have been smacked extremely hard with income generation.
   
   I get that, I have been impacted as well. I am pretty damn sure HubPages staff are CRITICALLY aware of this as well.
   
   I am also sure that these folk are working their collective arses off to provide us with the BEST platform on the internet to showcase writers and advertisers for the best use of a facility to create a win/win/win scenario for EVERYONE.
   
   A Win for writers to have a highly valued platform to write for and use tools provided for free, to showcase their best articles on the internet.
   
   A win for advertisers to get the best effective and highly responsed return on investment for their adverts for their business.
   
   A win for HubPages HQ staff to finally have a great place to strive for and work hard at to become one of the most envious places to be employed by in the industry, with a love of the business and striving for working hard to make this place not only good for themselves (which means happy to come to work) but for advertisers and for us, the writers, those who love to write for fun, for profit, and still get excited that we are publishing on the net and THOUSANDS of others around the world are getting information and value from our efforts.
   
   But there is something missing, something I don't get, which is this perceived witch hunt that HP doesn't want the best writers on the net on their website.........what the?
   
   You have to be kidding me.
   
   This seems to be on top of changes happening now that may or may not involve ALOT of work with the very recent site updates and some changes to the TOS and rules of publishing Hubs. But that these changes seem to be based solely on post Panda, and as reactionary rather than visionary or revolutionary.
   
   I wonder, with some writers who have pulled their hubs offline, whether they now won't see a benefit in 3, 6, or 12 months time, a time that will in my view be much better for writers on this site.
   
   I can appreciate that their are some emotive and hot headedness running around and with the workload of these changes, EVERYONE has much work and alot to do with behind the scenes for HP and us writers whom have to (if we so choose) update our Hubs to reflect the new condition for publishing.
   
   I actually mourn the loss of those Hubbers who choose to put their accounts on hold or leave altogether. For a place of supposed community, I find this action rather self-centred and selfish. This choice weakens the site for the rest of us whom choose to stay and suggests that all the positive hard work that HP have put into place for our benefit, you no longer appreciate to utilize.
   
   There are many Hubbers here whom I have gleaned some wisdom from, those who know or don't know have helped make ME personally become a better writer, more educated with earning an income online and as well have mostly served a wider community with no regard for compensation or thanks (and have asked for none as well ). Yes there are many of you out there that help us without recompense and in ways that we can never repay you. You are the ones whom will be most sorely missed should you have or choose to leave this site.
   
   What also irks me alot is this view that HP staff don't communicate. I find I feel that alot of this is due to a particular time frame and expectation of a response.
   
   There are 20 odd staff in total (correct my mistake on staff numbers here) that cater for 200,000 odd writers (and growing). Speedy information return and reporting back to individual users on forum postings and emails is an enormous task more so than anyone can ask for. You try and read and maybe respond to 8,000 emails per day, everyday. Just go and work out how long it would take to READ those.
   
   To those at HQ, keep on keeping on. I am yet to find a site that provides as much information and support to its site users as anywhere else. Only one place provides similar yet slightly different support and that site is Squidoo.
   
   But they don't have the Leaning Centre, or Hub Camps, or the new podcasts or additional facilities to earn more money (HP ADS - give this 12 months folks before we see some REAL results) or a simple, straight forward facility to publish good article content on the web.
   
   I can imagine there has most likely been alot of ill feeling and occasionally tears from both some HP staff and from fellow writers with the short time of upheaval and change.
   
   The time to stop the nonsense is now, its high time we band together and start getting back to supporting and encouraging one another and helping each other get back to where we need to be.
   
   That can only be achieved by being better writers earning a better income on a platform that we can make one of the best sites available on the internet today.
   
   Right, I have said what I need to get off my chest and appreciate anyone who has read this.
   
   If you agree, great, if you don't agree, also great. But personally, I am going to go back and start writing Hubs again and improving the existing ones that need work or are not up to scratch with the new rules.
   
   I sincerely hope all those writers thinking of leaving do not and stay and continue to contribute to the community and that HP still continues to strive to make this place better for us all.

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   1. 87

      Marisa Wrightposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I'm with you, Jase.  I'm all for Hubbers being vocal about their concerns.  I'm all for Hubbers complaining loud and long about any changes which adversely affect them.  But aren't we old enough not to resort to name-calling, exaggeration, inflammatory language and hysterical conspiracy theories?  Apparently not, if you look at some of the stuff being bandied about.
      
      Though you won't see as much discussion on the forums as there should be, because there's also a conspiracy theory which says if you complain on the forums, you'll be victimized.
      
      Which pretty much guarantees that Hubber concerns aren't going to be taken seriously, because with so few of us here, it seems as though only a minority of Hubbers is complaining.

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      1. 72

         Kangaroo_Jaseposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Hey Marisa,
         
         I am also supportive that Hubbers voice their concerns, every concern they have, and when a number of hubbers (quite a number) are seen to highlight a concern, then I am sure HQ would look into what needs to be addressed.
         
         Same goes for the what features would one want to see - which is in the forums as well I believe.
         
         I know that their is some quite strong emotions flying about and see that, unfortunately for a lot of long time Hubbers, their decision is made up already to longer be a part of an active community here.
         
         For those I agree with and those I don't, to those that go, or have gone already, I will miss their values, banter, conversation and respective arguments around these parts.
         
         Again, I am also one for concerns to be raised in a objective, adult, respectful manner. Address a concern, have it dealt with or if it cannot be resolved, still move forward anyway.

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            WryLiltposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Did you get my email, Jase?

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               Kangaroo_Jaseposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               I certainly did Wry, yet I havent been home in the last few days to respond.

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   2. 63

      darksideposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Here's a likely scenario, one of many...
      
      Hubber with 1000 hubs finds their hubs being unpublished because they're got a LOT of amazon capsules and a new rule is in play. You must have at least 50 words per Amazon product. I don't have a problem with this, nor has it really been an issue for me. But some people do have a lot of Amazon products. So they go through their hubs and fix them up.
      
      Then they get a round of warnings, the hubs are unpublished actually, that there are pixelated images. So they go through and fix that.
      
      Then another round. Deceptive tags and titles and what not. Some of these might be false positives. It happens. But you've got dozens, maybe hundreds of hubs to sort through. Meanwhile they are unpublished. So these hubs aren't earning money.
      
      Rolling changes continue... affiliate links, you better get rid of your affiliate links. Not all of them, but some of them. Filters flag and warn and unpublish.
      
      These are just some of the changes. Can you imagine how much time it takes to go through hundreds, perhaps one to two thousand hubs. If they could have fixed all those things in one go, it would have been an inconvenience. But not everyone sticks around for that they feel is an abusive relationship. So they move their content elsewhere. They leave the hubs unpublished, and post it on their own sites. Sites that they've started because of the frustration of having to go over their hubs again and again.
      
      I hope that HP pulls out of the nose dive, I really do. And compared to others I have come through unscathed (as in making adjustments for the rolling changes, not the dip in traffic and earnings). But even today I got a notification that four hubs on one account have been unpublished for deceptive title, tags or category. And I gotta say, I can't see what the problem is, at all. I'll wait to hear back from them. In the meantime though they're unpublished.

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   3. 73

      ktarcusposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      My main concern is not about the hub in general but about their changing to google panda which I see as a censorship machine designed to leave naught but the mediocre and the bland it has happened on other sites that the contributions have very little free dynamic thought.
      Every thing is becoming sterile and politically correct with very little or no movement  from moderation either way (left or right thinking)
      Ye panda accesses and edits articles so that they are of a "consistent level"( suitable for all) but for me the name PANDA is a euphemism for the fact that it Panders to big business targeting set demographic audiences whose sole desire is to read trite 400-800 word articles on whose boyfriend kissed whose mother and set off a scandal at the anniversary and the like.The hub pages are becoming that which I detest and veering from the path which made me want to be a contributor.
      They are also gong down the route of censoring their own writers by demanding all content be tied exclusive for at least 12 months.
      Perhaps these are a few reasons why so many have left and why many "new" writers will not last long enough to outstay the 12 months their first article is tied in for.

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         EmpressFelicityposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Whoah there, where did ya get that one from?

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            mistyhorizon2003posted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I was about to ask the exact same question!!

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      2. 87

         Marisa Wrightposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Ktarcus, I think you're misunderstanding what's happening here. HubPages didn't "change to" Google Panda.  Panda was a major change, made by Google, to the way Google works. One effect was that Google now downgrades articles on sites like HubPages,so people won't see them high in the search results any more.
         
         HubPages is a business. The goal of HubPages has always been to make money through a share of the advertising on our articles. If no one can see our articles on Google,no one makes any money - neither the writer nor HP.  So HP couldn't ignore Panda - they have to find a way to get us back up on the front page of Google.  If they don't, we don't make money - but more importantly,they don't make money, so they may as well close their doors.  And that would mean we all lose out.
         
         
         
         No it doesn't, Panda isn't an entity.  It's the name for Google's project which resulted in the change.
         
         
         That's not censorship, as it doesn't affect the content of the article.  HubPages has always wanted exclusive content. It has tolerated duplicate articles but they were always heavily penalised.   That tolerance has now been removed and duplicate content is not allowed, period.
         
         I think you're thinking of Helium, they now require 12 months exclusive rights.  The big difference is, you can't remove your article at the end of the 12 months - plus you're getting paid peanuts for it.  Whereas on HubPages, it has to be exclusive while it's on HP, but you can remove it at any time if you choose to publish it elsewhere.

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            ktarcusposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            "That's not censorship, as it doesn't affect the content of the article.
            One effect was that Google now downgrades articles on sites like HubPages,so people won't see them high in the search results any more."
            ...........................................................................................................................................
            Lower ranking means less readership = covert censorship....Google controls what is deemed to be "good copy" for the masses to read ergo sheep follow sheep and bland leading the bland. My apologies for getting time required for articles mixed up. As for your take on helium paying less than the hub pages I have made far more money on Helium than I expect to make here regardless of the "changes for the better" made to it. And yes it is possible to remove articles from helium if you wish after 12 months but why bother when you can post them elsewhere at the same time after that. So earning easy money!

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            1. 87

               Marisa Wrightposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Your post clearly stated you believed Panda could "edit articles".  As if Panda was an entity and had some control over Hubs. If you didn't mean that, sorry - maybe you should review what you said.
               
               
               
               If that's possible, can you post the reference?  I have nearrly 200 articles on Helium which I'd love to remove, my understanding is that you can never delete articles on Helium.  All you can do is post them elsewhere - and with most sites avoiding duplicate articles after Panda, there's no point in doing so. 
               
               I base my comparison on HubPages and Helium on my own experience.  My best performing article on HP has earned over $200 in three years.  My best performing article on Helium has earned $30 in the same period. No contest!

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                  thisisoliposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Before Panda I had a hub which has earned me well over $10,000 by itself since I created it, probably a lot more.

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   4. 86

      mistyhorizon2003posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Please take a few days to read through all the various threads on this before you believe that Hubbers complaining are being 'selfish', (you admit you 'haven't been around for a while', and therefore you obviously have loads of catching up to do). The whole situation has been handled very badly by Hubpages, and their attitude has been 'like it or leave', (this is clearly visible in other threads). This site is most likely on its way out now, and the really top writers that were here are going to other sites like Excerptz and Thisisfreelance in order to be treated with the respect they deserve, plus avoid being here when the 'ship sinks'. Those sites have NOT been affected by Panda, yet still allow content Hubpages now unpublishes either with or without warning (depending on how they feel at the time it appears). No offence, but really, please spend time reading those threads before you judge.

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      1. 72

         Kangaroo_Jaseposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Hey Misty,
         
         Unbeknown to you, I have spent a considerable amount of time, and have come across many, many posts in the forums, which I have read, repeatedly before I put in my initial OP.
         
         I have also corresponded with many hubbers about the situation that is occurring and has been occurring over the last couple of months.
         
         It does not matter if one or more Hubbers have made the decision to leave over imagined or real slights. Hey I am actually being selfish as well. Imagine how much knowledge and insight and experience we are all going to lose now. There will be many Hubbers leaving who I will have to speak with others to keep in contact with, just to find the missing ones! Some I may never get the opportunity to speak with again.
         
         We are in some uncharted territory due to Panda or not, the site has been hit very hard in the SERPS and every one HQ and Hubbers alike have been hit badly.
         
         I don't feel that alot of what has progressed has been handled badly by either Hubpages or by Hubbers, but there certainly has been alot of emotional responses and tempers flaring.
         
         Will this be the death knell or a time when the 'ship sinks', I have absolutely no idea. But I will keep on doing what I have been in the total time I have been here, and that is creating Hubs, polishing off my existing ones and dealing with HQ and fellow hubbers as I have in the past.
         
         Misty, no offense taken at all

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            mistyhorizon2003posted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Thanks for clarifying K J, I am glad I did not offend you

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2. 61

   Mark Ewbieposted 14 years ago

   Great post KJ - and I am doing my best to be supportive.  May not seem obvious, but that's how I operate.

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      shazwellynposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Well, your presence here is supportive.  Loyality is a demonstration of love

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   2. 72

      Kangaroo_Jaseposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Hey Mark,
      
      Its seems the following is happening,
      
      1. Hubbers are leaving
      2. Hubbers are staying
      3. Hubbers are not sure what to do, so haven't done much from their current status quo
      4. Hubbers who don't frequent the forums are most likely doing what they normally do.

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      1. 0

         shazwellynposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Im in it for joy - so I am sticking around

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      2. 0

         Baileybearposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I'm still here.  I'm giving my hubs a spring clean & I'm spreading my wings (eg starting a website & looking at publishing elsewhere as well).  So probably won't add fresh hubs in the meantime

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3. 60

   recommend1posted 14 years ago

   The division and angst is becasue HP is changing from a site that caters for all kinds of people and uses, such as linking to other stuff for everyone to make a few cents to an HP advertising platform that limits the freedoms we once enjoyed to a frame that suits HP.  In some ways it is a similar effect as changing a freelance group into an employed group.
   
   It suits some people and does not suit others.  Those who can acommodate the changes such as those who write almost solely product hubs or informative hubs that stand alone - appear to be happy enough - those who use(d) HP as a part of a wider net of interlinked and complementary stuff it does not suit any more.
   
   It suits me (as it happens) but the changes have been poorly handled and upset a lot of people for no real reason, so the anger.

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4. 76

   kennynextposted 14 years ago

   A lot of changes but only the future will know if it is for the better.

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5. 73

   WryLiltposted 14 years ago

   I think that a lot of people feel that Hubpages has let them down - not because of Panda but because of the many (internal) things that followed.

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6. 59

   Randy Godwinposted 14 years ago

   The thought of HP letting its writers down is for a good reason.  So far, no one from the top had addressed the problems caused by hubs which should never have been allowed to remain on the site.
   
   I think I can speak for many of us who were shocked to see these type articles have garnered millions of views for HP and therefore were ignored because they brought in substantial revenue for the site.
   
   Personally, I would feel more respect for HP if someone from the top had the nerve to admit their part in this fiasco instead of ignoring the concerns of the writers in this particular case.
   
   Not to mention HP continuing to allow low quality hubs to be published without any oversight as to their content despite the complaints of those of us they depend on to ferret them out.
   
   Let them find them if they want to continue this failing policy!

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7. 67

   Moon Willow Lakeposted 14 years ago

   I, too, haven't been on HP all that much due to things that are happening in my life outside of here. I still need to take the time to even catch up on all of the changes that have taken place. That said, I plan to stick around and see how things pan out. The process of going through a change can be timely and I think there is a strong enough community here to withstand this. If this is done right, we will all be stronger in the end. I also give HP staff a big 'congrats' for being strong and flexible enough to solve these difficulties in order to keep going rather than give up and shut everything down. We are here today because they decided to keep going.

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8. 67

   Rosie2010posted 14 years ago

   Hi, Kangaroo_Jase. Thanks for voicing out your concerns and support for Hubpages.  It's very difficult to be positive here in Hubpages these days, and so a positive outlook is always welcome.
   
   Congratulations for the very positive happening in your life.  I'm happy for you.
   
   Rosie

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   1. 72

      Kangaroo_Jaseposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Hi Rosie,
      
      Thanks for that!
      
      I am positive too, I am some what feeling like an island though.

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9. 81

   sunforgedposted 14 years ago

   Any idea what Hubbers actually left? Forums havent seemed to be buzzing as much and I havent been getting many notifications of new hubs published?
   
   Congrats on the positive events!

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      Kangaroo_Jaseposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Hey Sunforged, thanks!!!!
      
      Those hubbers that have left that we don't know about yet, it may take months to find out whos who!

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10. 59

    Sam Wroxallposted 14 years ago

    I have found since Google did their latest update my traffic to my hubpages has nearly disappeared and the adsense money has also gone the same way. I need a good plan to try and recover from this quickly anyone have any ideas ??

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       Lissieposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Develop your own sites-  HP used to be a quick and fairly easy way to make money - that seems to have stopped now - at least temporarily.
       
       The OP has noticed that some of us aren't very active here anymore - that's because we are working hard to replace the income lost here.

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          Kangaroo_Jaseposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          This is one positive as an outcome Lissie, at least some folk will come to realize that diversity is important than just sticking with one income stream only. Especially those who have only one income stream in the past.

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11. 0

    EmpressFelicityposted 14 years ago

    In the case of deceptive tags, why can't HP just remove the tags themselves and tell you about it afterwards?  See, this is just one more thing that makes me wonder what all these changes (and more pertinently, they way they're being implemented) are actually designed to accomplish.

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       darksideposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       That would be the best solution.

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       WoodsmensPostposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Why are you using deceptive tags?

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          EmpressFelicityposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          "When did you last beat your wife?"

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             darksideposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             LOL. Isn't the question you're supposed to ask "have you stopped beating your wife?"

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                WoodsmensPostposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Better yet have you stop using deceptive tags? wtf 
                Shes Kind of a nutt case wouldnt you say?

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                   EmpressFelicityposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   Who's she, the cat's mother?
                   
                   I suspect I'm wasting my time here, but still.
                   
                   It's true that some people on here may have been using irrelevant tags with a truly deceptive intent, perhaps to pull in page views from people searching for other, more heavily trafficked subjects. 
                   
                   But there are a number of people who have been pulled up for using deceptive tags, when their intent wasn't dishonest at all.  I'm thinking of people who used "code" type tags to allow the creation of RSS feeds to any hub that had that code as one of the tags.

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                2. 63

                   darksideposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   The suggestion by EmpressFelicity is that those "deceptive" tags, seeing as the moderator knows what they are, are removed by them. It shouldn't be hard for them. Beats having the hub unpublished.
                   
                   And what would you define as deceptive? Because I have four hubs with two tags each, and those tags are to do with the topic being dealt with. In fact the one word tags are taken from the title.
                   
                   The title isn't misleading either. It is directly related to the content.
                   
                   And the categories aren't inappropriate, the categories themselves have the words in them that are within the title itself.
                   
                   So the point is, if a hub can be flagged for having something wrong with it, something as simple as a tag, it should be easily rectified without having to unpublish and therefore diminish the hubs ability to earn money. What if a person, for whatever reason, is unable to read that email or access that account for a week or two? Surely the Search Engines would have recrawled the page to see that it went from being full of information to almost an empty page. And so they deindex the page from the results.
                   
                   So don't automatically assume that people are using deceptive tags. Especially when hey are suggesting a better way for it to be handled. Nor should you call people "nutt" cases because they respond to your false assumptions.

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          darksideposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          What a strange question to be asking.

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    psycheskinnerposted 14 years ago

    I would find it easier to be warm and supportive if theforums were modified in a way that didn't encourage absolutely endless high volume bashing of pretty much every point of view out there (political, religious etc) ad naseum. Such that at least half of the latest posts are always someone harping on about how someone else is stupid, evil or immoral.

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       WoodsmensPostposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Really? This used to be a nice place to visit, anymore you have to take all guns out just to post it, kind of sucks.
       
       And those with the most time here are doing the best bashing

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    psycheskinnerposted 14 years ago

    I think it is more reasonable for the person who posted 'bad' tags to remove them, as it will allow them to understand what is not permitted--and thus they will be less likely to repeat the mistake.

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       EmpressFelicityposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       This could be accomplished by sending out an automated email along the lines of:
       
       "The following tags ______, ______ and _____ on your hub The Mating Habits of the Spiny Echidna were removed due to non compliance with the following tagging rules: [specify which rules here].  Please bear this in mind when publishing new hubs in future.  Sincerely, The Hub Pages Team"
       
       Or words to that effect.

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       DoorMattnomoreposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       that's awesome, if there was truly a mistake.
       
       Or if the person who made the mistake will magically understand their mistake when their hub is unpublished. But then again, if they could magically know why their hub was unpublished, they most likely wouldn't have made the mistake in the first place. I think.

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          psycheskinnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          I would define mistake as 'anything HubPages doesn't allow.  It's a private site, they can decide what they allow.  If what they require gets to ridiculous we can go somewhere else. But suggesting they do all the work for us to get work in compliance seems a tad unrealistic to me.
          
          But I guess my point of view is biased by the fact that despite being not exactly a genius I have only had two hubs unpublished and the email told me what the problem was, which was fixed in a minute or two.
          
          If there is totally unreasonable stuff going on i guess I just have not experienced it yet.

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             mistyhorizon2003posted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Trouble is, 'What Hubpages doesn't allow' changes virtually daily (or so it seems), and like I said before, mistakes are made a lot, which causes those of us with hundreds of hubs a load of wasted time. Frequently these same Hubs have been published for several years with no problems, and now they are penalised for utter nonsense such as a very mildly pixelated picture. Meanwhile loads of 'cr*p' is left published untouched on here. The frustration for those VERY experienced hubbers is immense, these writers are not amateurs, spammers or anthing similar, and once they move their skills elsewhere Hubpages will feel the pinch very quickly.

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                Jason Menayanposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                How many Hubs of yours have been moderated for pixelated images or tags?

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                   mistyhorizon2003posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   To be honest I can't remember Jason, but at least three to four I reckon, and in one case there were loads of images on the hub that were humorous, and I believe there was over 100 images. I had to go through the hub twice to even find which were pixelated, mainly because they were only ever so slightly pixelated, yet still clearly readable and funny, so a loss to the hub by being removed.
                   
                   Edit. Tags a different matter, but I nearly set up a load of new RSS feed tags to make the links to my hubs relevant, and if I had followed the advice that I was given, I would have been penalised for all of those too, as suddenly rules were enforced that hardly anyone seemed to know about that made creating 'nonsense tags' to link your relevant hubs in an RSS feed was now not allowed.

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                      Jason Menayanposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                      Not necessarily (re: the RSS feeds). It's hard to know. I don't see a whole lot of moderations on your Hubs so far except for some pretty obvious "dirty" (or "adult-seeming" ones) that ads were shut off for, due to AdSense compliance. We really tend to not push the envelope when it comes to that sort of stuff that might anger AdSense.
                      
                      Is it possible there is another aspect to our recent policy that you're reacting to?

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                         Marisa Wrightposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                         Jason, Misty is commenting on the use of "nonsense" or coded tags to create RSS feeds, which was the common way for Hubbers to create "related" RSS feeds before the policy was tightened.
                         
                         She did have "latest Hubs" feeds on her Hubs but they hadn't been moderated yet:  she was going to take action to change them, but luckily she saw my thread requesting clarification on tags and feeds, and stopped just in time.
                         
                         A perfect illustration of why I was trying to get you to make a proper announcement on that feature - Misty is far from the only Hubber who thought that if coded tags were OK for projects to use, they were OK for individuals to use too.

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                      2. 86

                         mistyhorizon2003posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                         Marisa is correct in her post after yours. I could have wasted days creating appropriate tags to link my relevant hubs, only to have them penalised again, so ensuring further days of my time wasted reversing what I had done. For the mere $100 or so I WAS getting every month, this is not worth my time.
                         
                         My so called 'Adult Seeming Hubs' were penalised as you know for innuendo, not genuinely 'dirty' or 'Adult' content (I would like to make that clear to anyone who might jump to the wrong conclusions).
                         
                         If there are any other aspects of the recent changes I object to it includes the loss of Clickbank links when the links were all of good and relevant quality, (another God knows how many hours wasted removing them, plus money sitting in my Clickbank account that won't reach payout now until I use Clickbank on another site. Up until this I have only ever written on Hubpages, but am now forced elsewhere to avoid losing this, plus other reasons such as income).

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                      3. 59

                         Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                         Thanks so much for merely showing up to answer some of our questions, Jason.  I'm not trying to speak for everyone else, but it seems awfully lonely on these forums, as far as communication with those who know the rules is concerned. 
                         
                         I know you guys are busy, but if HP keeps letting all the junk be published at will by new users, you're going to be even busier.  I think many of us would pitch in if the new writers were tested first, but not in the present situation.
                         
                         Either HP wants quality content or not, you can't have it both ways using the present system.  But, I could be wrong.  It almost happened one time before! 

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14. 66

    psycheskinnerposted 14 years ago

    Learning is more likely to occur when investigation and action is required. But basically I think the one that makes the mistake should fix it.

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    1. 63

       darksideposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       And what happens when you look at two tags and both are in the content?
       
       It's kinda like being put in a round room and being told to sit in the corner.
       
       What EmpressFelicity has suggested is workable.

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    2. 63

       darksideposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       I never use the suggested tags that HP offers up. I wonder if people are getting pinged for using those tags, because some of them seem ridiculous.
       
       And a while I have 4 hubs unpublished awaiting review for 8 tags or 4 titles that are flagged for being deceptive, we've got an account like http://hubpages.com/profile/renilim which has hubs that are keyword stuffed to an insane degree.

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    3. 86

       mistyhorizon2003posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Yes, but in reality the Hubber quite often needs to virtually be psychic to find out what is wrong with their tags, and this can happen because of the load of new trainee moderators Hubpages have employed who do make mistakes (as has been confirmed by Hubpages before).  If the problem is obvious I totally agree, but frequently this is not the case.

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       1. 66

          psycheskinnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          All I can say is that I had add a handful of tags and leave it at that. It doesn't seem to me that having a bushel full of tags achieves much anyway?

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             mistyhorizon2003posted 14 years agoin reply to this

             To illustrate my point, I published a hub on 'how to install a water butt' and got penalised because I had used the word ''butt' LOL. Here in the UK a 'butt' in this context is the same as a 'barrel'. It took two days for me to get ads reinstated on the hub as a result!

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          2. 63

             darksideposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Let me clue you in, I'll use this as an analogy...
             
             Lets say I have a hub on "Sydney, Australia" and the content is all about "Sydney in Australia". And it's in a category that is about locations around the world and it's in the "Australia" sub-category.
             
             There are only two tags: "Sydney" and "Australia".
             
             And there is no keyword stuffing. In fact, your average SEO expert who leans to the side of caution would still point out that there's PLENTY of opportunities within the content to put those keywords in there far more often. And none of the words within the content are made bold or italicized.
             
             And you get this notification:
             
             
             
             If there is a real problem with the hub, I'm not seeing it. That's why it has been suggested that HP HQ could delete deceptive tags. Or that being given a warning to check it out rather than it being unpublished is a better idea. But if you still don't understand, then so be it.

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             1. 61

                Jason Menayanposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                We can't delete your tags. Remember, we don't own your content, and since we don't, we don't have the right to make modifications to it. Only you can do that. All we can do is unpublish something and let you know what it takes to be published again on our site.
                
                That's also why we don't crack down on other sites copying our content - since we are not the content owner, we can't file complaints.
                
                Glen, send me some examples via email so I can check it out (I don't have purview into all of your accounts). It might be your title or category choice, and have nothing to do with your tags whatsoever. Alternatively, you could post a link to the cached copy, so others can have a look.

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15. 66

    psycheskinnerposted 14 years ago

    Adsense is just as dumb about keywords. Unfortunately even ambiguous words need to be avoided.  I had a blog on romance writing dropped from Adsense, irrevocably, because of occasional references to characters being sexy and so forth.
    
    So I guess I would distinguish between Hubpages doing something dumb, and HubPages requiring us to do dumb things required by Adsense. I think at least 90% of the changes are down to the latter and thus necessary annoyances.

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16. 66

    psycheskinnerposted 14 years ago

    If you have had a hub flagged when it had two one word tags right out of the title that would be extreme.  Is that literally something that has happened?

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    1. 63

       darksideposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Yes, that is exactly what has happened.
       
       Replace "Sydney, Australia" above with another city and country from somewhere else in the world and that's my story right there.
       
       Now that's just four hubs. Others have had similar experiences x 10 or even x 100.

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          psycheskinnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Well then I hope staff do follow that up. The only cases I have seen involved far more a page with just two one word tags.  They were mainly people who approved every tag suggested.

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17. 71

    earnestshubposted 14 years ago

    I would like to know if a safeguard could be put in place using software?
    
    I would have thought that if a hub was sub-standard it could be denied publication automatically as on some other sites.
    This would surely take the weight off all of us, writers and hubpages the company?

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18. 39

    liswilliamsposted 14 years ago

    If I move a couple of hubs over to my sites that are not doing well in hubpages will Google penalize me.

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       mistyhorizon2003posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       No they have no interest in this. You can move your articles anywhere you wish to and Google will simply judge it again with its new URL. Might be an idea  (I was recently advised) to use the Google URL Removal Request tool to get it de-indexed first, as this will avoid any 'Duplicate Content' penalties or any penalisation for it previously having been on Hubpages (who are clearly in their 'bad books' right now).

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19. 86

    mistyhorizon2003posted 14 years ago

    PS. I think this is the link you need to do this: https://www.google.com/accounts/Service … &hl=en

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       liswilliamsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       thanks a lot

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20. 61

    logic,commonsenseposted 14 years ago

    Hubbers may come and hubbers may go,
    and hubbers may peter out you know.
    But I'll be a hubber through thick and thin,
    peter out or peter in!

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