Paul posted in the forums here a couple of weeks ago about the upcoming Amazon Program opportunity which we believe will benefit the vast majority of Hubbers in terms of earnings.
We reviewed your questions and Marina has compiled a rather thorough FAQ entry that should answer most of the most commonly-asked questions on your minds:
Have a look!
There's a contradiction:
"However, at the close of 2011, the HubPages Earnings Program will be the sole supported mechanism for users who wish to earn from promoting Amazon products on HubPages."
Case #3 – I am already enrolled in the HubPages Earnings Program. I am already part of the Amazon Associates Program via my own affiliate code
•Your personal Amazon Associates ID will continue to work. You can switch now to participate under HubPages and take advantage of the high commission tier provided by HubPages. In early 2012, HubPages and Amazon will evaluate performance of the program along with other business and regulatory conditions. At that point, we will communicate whether any change to the set-up of existing Amazon Associates ID needs to occur.
I assumed that meant that Jan. 1 you would be enrolled willy nilly.
In Feb. or something the whole thing would be evaluated and possible changes made.
Good point @SimeyC
I am still not clear:
- would I be paid for only the item that is sold directly from a hub
- or am I paid on the same basis as Amazon does now- ie a commission for any item purchased by the person who clicked to Amazon and went on a shopping spree with my cookie enbeded?
Pretty sure it will be same as now, except that we can all reasonably expect to be in or near the top tier. I would expect that the top tier would be pretty much a given.
I certainly hope so, anyway - the large majority of my sales are for nothing I pushed in a hub.
What is the top tier percentage we could expect? Thanks
It would be nice if a staff member could answer this question authoritatively.
It is the crucial issue.
This part of the FAQ suggests that we will get the commissions from all purchases following a referral (within a 24 hour period?):
'The program will track referrals from your Hubs and the resulting purchase activity on Amazon. You will accrue into your HubPages Earnings Program balance from this activity, based on a commission from transactions on Amazon that occur after a referral from your Hubs.'
This would entail no loss of earnings via Amazon which would be wonderful.
If someone could confirm this reading of the FAQ, I would be having a happy xmas.
Marina answered that question in this post:
Happy Xmas to one and all, then!
I didn't notice that Maria was a staffer...
any reason why you had to link to a three word response? A simple "yes" would have been a better example of proper and effective online communication.
Is Adding pointless hoops some sort of virus in the workplace over there?
Its a HUGE fail to make your earning program PayPal dependent ... all sorts of payment pproblems are going to happen and all you guys will be able to do is shrug and say "not our problem" ... is that part of the plan?
Thats a given, no question about it ... it takes a very patient and persistent person to work through paypal if any issues arise and you guys will have no ability to correct them.
Not offering an alternative payment option is very, very poor practice. Especially considering your international user base.
This coming from a guy who actually likes his paypal experience.
Good catch, SimeyC! To clarify, the HubPages Earnings Program will be the sole means to earn from Amazon products on HubPages starting in early 2012. I've updated the language of the FAQ so that it is consistent.
Though, wilderness is also right that we will be evaluating the Program in early 2012 and making any necessary changes that would improve performance on HubPages.
Thanks for the link, Jason - I just reviewed the FAQ and have a better understanding of the change .... but what I didn't see addressed was if the commision from Amazon sales will still be two months behind like the current program or not. Sorry if this was addressed elsewhere - if it was I missed it.
I don't see how it could be any different unless HP is going to front the monies and then come knocking on your door to get some back occasionally.
We are still working out the details of the payment schedule, but in most cases it will be a similar schedule to the Ad Program, and in some rare cases a bit beyond 90 days (which is Amazon's maximum possible return window).
Amazon Vine is an invitation-only program. Vine Voices are selected based on several criteria, but primarily on the helpfulness of their reviews as judged by all other customers and by their demonstrated interest in the types of products that are featured in the program.
Took a look! Not impressed with HP changing the terms of our agreement to my detriment.
Please stop calling this an "opportunity" - that implies a choice. This will actually lose me money - hardly an opportunity I would choose to take.
I will almost certainly lose 1.5-2% on the sales I refer from sites outside of hubpages and the chronically poor exchange rate offered by paypal will lose me another chunk.
Plus I am now exposed to hubpages for 2 or 3 months income from 3 sources - amazon, hpads (as adsense is a total waste of time now) and ebay. To say I am uncomfortable with this situation given the ethics displayed by hubpages recently would be a massive understatement. If you go broke - I stand to lose several thousand dollars. Previously it made no difference because I would still have been paid by the 3 advertisers you and I agreed on when I joined the site several years ago.
I would like a clear explanation of how it is going to be possible for you to track individual referrals on this scale. Do you have some special arrangement with Amazon to report sales by hundreds of thousands of different IDs? Do you have some majik that can follow my referrals?
How exactly are you going to track my sales?
Took a look!
Still not impressed and would like an answer to my question.
How exactly are you going to be able to track this?
We have access to enough amazon tracking ids to assign one to each author.
Thank you. I appreciate the direct answer. This leads to more questions:
Where will I find that information and how will I be able to track it myself through Amazon?
Will Amazon guarantee the payment should (God forbid) Hubpages go broke?
Changing our agreement in this fashion is not good for me and judging by some of the responses here - there are quite a few other people who do not want you to change the substance of their agreement either.
Since my adsense income disappeared in favor of HPAds, you then rolled ebay in to it and are now attempting to roll Amazon into it - this means I will be exposed to your company for 3 - possibly 4 - months income across 3 external advertisers and yourselves.
This is not the arrangement we had when we signed our agreement and is a MASSIVE game changer. Being exposed to 2 months income to 3 solid, well respected advertising programs is MASSIVELY different to allowing you to hold that much money for up to 90 days - plus the lag time in me getting paid and the increased costs and aggravation incurred through using rinky dink paypal.
There is also a substantial conflict of interest here. Your ads are in direct competition with Amazon and adsense.
I think a more ethical approach would be to offer existing members the choice to roll Amazon in or not.
This will certainly lose me money and expose me to unreasonable risks. If this had been the arrangement when I first joined - I would not have joined. The reason I never signed up for Sqidoo is the same as this.
I understand that new users should have no option, and some of the lower income members may benefit - plus the risk may well be worth it for them - but for those of us that this will cause to lose money and increase risk - why are we not being offered a choice?
Mark is making an awful lot of sense here. I agree for many new hubbers this won't be a bad option - but for those of us who leverage the sales from HP to up the percentage on Amazon sales elsewhere - this ia a disaster.
And yes I am far from happy about being paid my an intermediatory as well. Aside from the business risk - I deal with Paypals crap exchange rates.
Amazon can at least send me a check - and does frequently.
That won't be the case now unless I do a massive amount of work - which will pretty much put my properties in direct competition with HP - is that really what HP wants?
HubPages was a great website when it was allowing users to use their own Amazon ID. I don't know how HP thought this, but HP is "Squidoo-cising" us, in my sense.
Thanks for clarifying the Amazon program. A very big help!
Sounds like it would be smart to wait until we've accumulated the minimum payout this month before signing up. Or a little more to allow for ship backs.
Otherwise that money will sit there forever, or until we leave HP and start selling Amazon again somewhere else.
In my case that's $10, so no big deal, but some people have a payout limit of $1,000 or something crazy to avoid check cashing fees. Maybe they ought to think about lowering that?
I'm only $20 away from getting my $1000 payout, so I'm as well hanging off till then. I think the new Amazon program might suit me actually, because I'll get a payout every month instead of annually!
It would have been quicker if I hadn't been slapped, but there you go, such is life.
How do I switch? I have read the FAQ and am very confused on how to go from my personal ID to the hubpages Amazon program.
Wait until it shows up in "my account", "earnings", "settings". Follow the directions there.
I am confused as well. I do not see an option to switch.
The Program is not live yet - we're still tweaking some things with Amazon and sign up/activation will be ready within 1-2 weeks.
We'll make an announcement once sign-up becomes open!
So, when all this is said and done, starting in 2012, Amazon sales on Hubs will be counted through Hubpages' Amazon ID rather than our own?
In that case...
Scenario 1) I post a product-related Hub, and it makes 10 sales. Maybe I'll get an 8.5% commission on those sales. Or maybe Hubpages will take some of them. (I'm still a little unclear on how HP divvies up thine and mine.) Either way, those ten sales won't count towards my Amazon Associates volume bonus, so if I sell 101 items on my blogs and other UGC sites, I'll only get a 6.5% commission bonus across all those 101 Amazon sales.
Scenario 2) I post the exact same product-related article elsewhere, using my own Amazon links. It puts me over 111 Amazon Associate sales for the month, so all 111 sales earn me a 7% commission.
I'm afraid Scenario 2 looks more attractive.
Since HP awards reader impressions, I'm tempted to confine my Hubs to "thinky thoughts" articles, informational articles, and creative writing here, while saving my sales-related content for other sites where I might get a slightly better ROI.
Or am I misunderstanding? I'm still fairly new at all this.
You've got it, but turn the scenario around. 101 sales on HP and 10 elsewhere. Now those 101 sales earn 8.5% instead of 7% and the 10 earn 6% instead of 7%. And yes, I've probably got the limits wrong, but you get the idea. Is this not a winner? The 10 sales go down 1% but the 100 sales go up 1.5%.
Obviously lots of variables, though. What if 50 of the 100 are electronics, capped at 4%? Or the 10 are all $1,000 purchases and the 100 are mostly $5 items?
I'm not sure if very many people could actually accurately predict whether their total earnings would go up or down with any accuracy.
HP divvies up Amazon sales the same way they do adsense; they get 40% of the impressions and everything resulting from them. Amazon stats won't even report these sales as they will carry HP code instead of yours.
That's the way I see it also, and also the way I am directing my efforts since all the changes - no new ebay or Amazon capsuled hubs - just ad impression magnets and back-linkers to my own ebay and Amazon sales pages. (but still trying to provide quality content - even if my direction has changed)
I am not comfortable with Amazon Sales being added in HP Ad Program unless HP would come out with some alternate Payment Methods. Presently I am at only at 7% level with Amazon and getting an 8.5% would be really nice but I dislike the idea of getting the Payment through Paypal and not by Cheque. Indian Paypal limit is set at $2500 and HubPages is not the only place from where I get money through Paypal. Please do something about Alternate Payment modes.
Is it possible to block certain hubs from the Program and put it under the normal Amazon Program?
An opportunity is not mandatory. I wish this wasn't happening on HP.
Hub Pages I love this new idea. I was waiting for this as well. But the Indian paypal is limited to receiving just $500 at a time. Your monthly payment may cause problems as we won;t be able to receive it.
Also note what Anamika said above.
Both you and Anamika are wrong. Fawntia has shared a link in another thread about this. See Paypal Blog for more details.
Now, an Indian personal Paypal account can accept upto $3,000. If you are supposed to get more than that then you have to split to bring it within limit. However, $3,000 is more than sufficient for any Indian authors of Hubpages.
The monthly withdrawal limit of $2500 is a very old news. For verified account holders, there is no limit if one is withdrawing money directly to bank account. If money is withdrawn through Cheque, then the monthly limit of $2,500 will be there.
I don't understand why India would limit it's people's right to earn as much money as they want through paypal? Makes no sense.... what are they trying to do break the back of the Indian economy?
It is not Indian establishment, but it is Paypal which is hurting itself. Paypal doesn't want to follow some of guidelines of RBI like applying for a bank license, extensive reporting to the Central Bank about financial transactions, giving interest to money kept in account.
Many Indian Users do not have Paypal verified Accounts. The withdrawal limit on unverified account per month through Bank or cheque is only $500 as mentioned by lobobrandon.
The reasons why many people cannot verify their accounts are
1) Verification through Bank Account is not allowed in India
2)Verification strictly through Credit/Debit Card. Majority of Indian Banks does not validate debit card pin (happened in my case) and not everyone would like the idea of accumulating debt through credit cards (even though I am an ex banker I never owned a credit card). I had to go through a lot of struggles before finally getting my account verified.
I don't think as uthurban mentioned the limit of withdrawal is unlimited for verified accounts. As far as my knowledge is concerned it is $2500 only per month. Many writers may exceed this limit of withdrawal as they also may have other means of income which comes through their paypal account.
Hi Anamika, I verified it without a credit or debit card. I tried verifying with my debit card but paypal didn't let me. Paypal deposited two tiny amounts and I had to tell them the exact amt to get verified.
You verified through Bank Account? But Bank Account verification is not permitted for many countries including India.
I too have verified through my bank account. All you need to do is to ensure that the name at your Paypal and in the linked Bank Account should be same.
And, you are also required to add PAN number as well as Purpose Code.
Yes I did it just as uthurban says
It works. I verified mine 2 months back as that is when I began freelance writing.
Anamika, Bank verification started recently I guess and I verified my account through bank account few months back. But verifying just raises the limit on the money you receive. Paypal will not hold any money in your account and will do automatic withdrawal to your linked bank account.
Also, without a verified credit/debit card linked, Indian paypal users can't subscribe to any online services or make purchase online.(As RBI wants to track the purchases made through paypal,so without any card linked you won't be allowed to make any purchase) And I am sure you know that most debit card won't get linked, and many of us like me do not have a credit card.
Anyways there is a work around for that too. I have made a virtual credit card and have linked it to my account. Works great to test new services for free.
Anamika Ji, you should immediately apply for eBay here as you are loosing money because of your ignorance.
The verification process that you are mentioning has been replaced since 2010. Now, all you need to do is to link a bank account and Paypal will made two deposits in that account. You need to enter those two deposits in a form and subsequently your account will be verified. There is no need to have a credit card for verification.
And, a verified account do have unlimited withdrawal limit. Paypal has increased the limitation of single transaction on 23rd October, 2011. Now, it has been increased to $3,000 [from, dollar 500]. So, $3,000 in a single transaction is allowed, and RBI will not allow Paypal to keep money beyond seven days [since, Paypal doesn't have a bank license] which automatically means that $2,500 per month CAN NOT be monthly withdrawal limit.
Though, as I have mentioned above, for check withdrawal the monthly limit is there, that is what you are saying.
Go ahead with your eBay and Amazon [when it will come].
The main reason I originally liked HP was because I didn't have to trust them to pay me for any sales or clicks as Adsense and Amazon paid me directly. Sorry, but every other writing site I've participated on which paid me directly has never fully disclosed what they made versus my earnings on the site.
Now we are faced with the same thing here. Too bad for us!
Exactly how I feel. Fortunately we have a couple months to move things. I guess I'll only be leaving my strong Adsense earners here because I have no intention of signing up for the Hub earnings program. Either that or I'll have to move any Amazon related hubs to all one profile and keep my strong Adsense earners on this one. I will not turn the program on with the profile. I tried it and I make a LOT more with Adsense (on this profile only). Shame that it's come to this.
I finally started using HP ads and it killed my Adsense earnings. I went from making payout in the first week or so of the month to not making payout for several months since the sub-domain switch. Instead of making up to $20.00 or more a day on Adsense, I'm now earning a few pennies and almost nothing on Amazon.
So sad for all of us plungers and for HP too! I hope you do well whatever you decide to do.
You too. I'll always keep some articles here....unless of course our option to run Adsense only is taken away too at some point.
I guess you have to do what makes sense for you.
For me, it is entirely the other way around. A year ago, my website was earning much higher CPM than I could earn here through Adsense or HPADS. Recently, that turned upside down - my website CPM went to the cellar and HPADS started climbing - so *for me*, HPADS are obviously the way to go.
90 days payment terms?...
Just out of interest what is the reasoning behind making this mandatory, I am going to lose out on Paypals pretty bad currency conversion rates and getting my payments a month later.
The benefit to Hubbers here will be minimal, some hubbers might get an extra 4.5% of a few products or 2% of more, but I would rather have a 10% - 20% increase in sales from geo targeted amazon keyword capsules.
I emailed Paypal to ask if opening a USD account here at a bank in the UK (e.g. HSBC, Barclays, Lloyds etc) would allow me to avoid Paypal's poor currency conversion rates and their high fees. I got an email back this morning saying:
"Regarding your concern, the best option is to open a USD Bank account so you can transfer your USD funds in to it without getting any fees. Let me assure you that once you have chosen this alternative, you can maximise your money and no fees will be deducted. I can attest to this information Ms Lawson.
I am glad that I was able to resolve your question.
Happy Christmas in advance and Thank you for choosing PayPal!"
I am hopeful that this will resolve the problem for non-US citizens, but still making a few more inquiries to make sure.
Ignore this post I made in the quote. Paypal have since retracted this and will insist on performing a currency conversion to your local currency regardless of whether you are transferring to a dollar account or not I really hope HP soon offer alternative payment methods that are more 'friendly' to those of us who live outside of the US!
I have slightly shy of the minimum $100 payout in my amazon account.
My traffic has plunged and I have not had any Amazon saies nor am I likely to.
I see my options as:
1) write loads of product related hubs so people all go out and rush and buy , however on a tanked account it does not even like new content- and anyway me and product hubs are not a good mix
2) move to the USA - nah the kids wont like that one
3) Get a gift certificate- go online find a supplier who sells to the UK and then buy myself a little present
Looks like option 3 is the only viable one, unless anyone else has a better idea.
Amazon doesn't charge a fee for sending cheques to the UK, although your bank may.
Yes, but as far as I can see the minimum payout is still $100 and I envisage being below that before the start of the new programme.
I dont actually like the new programme as it smacks of all eggs in one basket which cannot be a good thing
Now is an excellent time to start building sites or blogs outside of Hubpages. You are right that with the new system, you will never see the money you have already earned in Amazon unless you have another earning source for Amazon.
I do not like the way this is being forced on us. I have posted already to say it might suit me, especially if I leave the money in US dollars, and spend it in US dollars, but it will be more expensive to change into £££s or €€€s than a cheque directly from Amazon.
I honestly think HP should re-think the compulsory side of things here. The vast majority of new users will opt for HPAmazon, but there are those here who have been here a long time, and who have built up a little sales empire through HP and extended it to other sites, who will lose out.
I would suggest they might even be prepared to move offsite, and surely it is better they stay?
Yes, eggs in one basket used to mean writing on HP alone, now it has a whole new meaning.
Agree Izzy. I've already gone through my hubs and evaluated which ones to keep here on this profile that are my Adsense money makers and I'm going to have to move everything else either off Hubpages or to a new profile where I wont mind signing up with the ad program. The ad program is just not beneficial for me on this one. Need to make some decisions. Wish I had a couple clones.
You should outsource to have someone ghost re-write your original hub content and leave the hubs on the site. You can then use them wherever else (or replace them on HP with the rewritten- whichever is better) and don't mess with the potential they may have based on their "hub age". Some things on this site (HP) I think are interwoven with other things that you don't see or realize- (i.e. a dead hub you built 2 years ago that hasn't seen a lick of traffic or clicks shouldn't be deleted specifically because it may have developed a huge list of backlinks during it's "fad" period that are to this day helping your hub subdomain/account with backlinks- also if others did link to your hubs removing them would make those dead links (which sucks to have).
Another reason is to maintain the hubpage keyword (the name at the end of your url) that will go back into the pool if you remove the hub (I've kept hubs I've deleted, just removing all the content and unpublishing them so if later I wanted to I could keep the keyword/url tail phrase which helps in ranking)...
Good Luck whatever you do- you seem to have a great grasp on this stuff hope I'm not preaching to the choire!
I fully agree with you Izzy. I have already started doing it as part of my link building exercise.
Talking of payment modes, I would prefer an Amazon Cheque anytime to a Paypal Payment. When I joined HP I was excited by the chances of getting money through different sources like Google, Amazon and Paypal which I consider as different baskets. But now with Amazon going to be part of HP Ad Program the number of baskets is reduced apart from the adsense revenue from hubpages (paid by google) going down significantly. But I am sure the HP Team would come up with something which would benefit us all. I will give this a try and see.
Again, the big question I am asking myself is why can't you keep this one optional?
I am forseeing big problems integrating your system with my keyword mining techniques.
Can we take a vote? I'm with you. This is going to cause me a lot of work. I'm not signing up for it because I'm not using the Hub ads. I feel like I just edited everything months ago to accommodate Hubpages' new rules and now I have to do more work again either moving content or editing to remove Amazon links completely. I will not give up my Adsense only option on this profile. I'm just sick over this. So much work addressing new rules on all my profiles for them to offer a "mandatory opportunity" and now I have to do more work again.
Hippi, you don't need to use HPads to have the new Amazon thing working. You have to sign up for HP earning program (which I though you already had?) but you can then turn of HPads and Amazon and eBay will still work fine through the earnings program. There is a difference between the earning program and HPads itself.
You will obviously have a harder time making the $50 payout, but is that really a problem?
Really? This is why I'm so frustrated! Even after reading it...I took it as having to be signed up with the ad program. How am I not understanding this? If this is the case then I feel much happier! I just didn't want to lose my Adsense only option on this profile. You just made my day. I swear...I read it several times and must not have understood it correctly. Thank you!
Actually...CANCEL my excitement. Now I'm thinking about it and I hate Paypal so I'm once again not liking this. Right now my Amazon money is direct deposited. Now I need to decide whether to give Paypal another chance or just go ahead and move the hubs that sell elsewhere.
wilderness is correct -- the "HubPages Earnings Program" is what we refer to as the overall mechanism by which you earn and are paid. You need to provide tax info and a PayPal address in order to enable this feature. Currently there are 2 programs (both optional): the Ad Program and eBay. Soon, Amazon will be added and that number will go to 3. If you have the HubPages Earnings Program enabled, you can activate any permutation of the available Programs. Though, each program will have its own set of requirements for activation and may require approval (such as eBay).
To further clarify, the requirements for the various programs:
HubPages Earnings Program (HEP), the umbrella program/the payment system itself: requires tax forms and PayPal address
Ad Program (formerly "HubPages Ad Program"): requires HEP + AdSense
eBay Program: requires HEP + AdSense
Amazon Program (coming soon): requires HEP
Thank you again. Still not happy about using Paypal but I guess I'll just give them another chance and hope for the best. Thanks for your response.
With all these programs being added to the "HubPages Ad Program" is there any plan to pay us via ACH Direct Deposit instead of using PayPal to avoid their high fees?
As a merchant I love PayPal and I'm okay with fees to accept credit cards on my website. But I don't like having my HubPages earnings reduced by those PayPal fees.
You should not be paying any fees to use paypal. Hp pays, out of their earnings, but you should not.
wilderness, do you have fees taken out when someone deposits money into your PayPal account? Do you have a business account or a personal account with PayPal?
No fees. It must be a personal account - I got it way back when, when eBay first started using them. It wasn't even owned by eBay then (or at least I don't think it was).
I have sold on eBay and I pay a fee then, but HP is supposed to be covering that fee now for their deposits. At least the sum put in (and taken out) matches what HP says I've earned.
Thanks for telling me about that. I have a business PayPal account so that I can accept credit card payments. I'll have to see if I can open a second account as a personal account just to receive HP earnings. Appreciate your alerting me to this. Thanks.
Eh ? I've a personal premier account and my sister got "personal" account recently. No matter which account we use, there is a charge for incoming money transfer and money withdrawals to banks. I don't know since when paypal started waiving the fees on money transfer. It must be for US based users cause here in asia almost every paypal transaction has fees and horrible exchange rates.
it's all in how you do it. I have a business premier account and still can send people (and recieve money) with no fees. What you do is when you go to send money (and tell people when they send you money to do this too) click into the second tab called "Personal" - in there I'm pretty much all choices are not taxed with a fee (this is USA bound) but I use what always works the one called "gift" or "money owed".
Paypal likes when you use it for personal use because the time before the recipient grabs it it's theirs to use as any bank does with your savings account money- so they don't charge for personal use (personal accounts from what I hear don't have this need to change tabs but I could be wrong).
I've sent and recieved money for 2 years now without incurring a single fee using this second "personal" tab- if I were to sell something, however it would be a business thing so that doesn't count but your supposed to be allowed to send family/friends money without incurring a fee- now you know how to do it.
(someone told me this, before that I was incurring fees for any type of sending not in the personal tab- most people don't think to change that tab and select one of those options they just send, how much and press send- the more you know (rainbow gif)
I've never been charged any type of fee for recieving money from paypal- or even my business associates, they use mass pay (as I assume HP would too) which doesn't hit you with a fee on the recieving end, maybe it's just an overseas thing? I get the full amount owed every time...
I suppose it's a relief to know that you don't need Adsense to join the Amazon program, but if that's the only earnings opportunity for Hubbers who don't have Adsense, it's hardly worth them joining!
HubPages rebounds from Panda and shafts its users in celebration!
that should be the next tech crunch article!
I've used Paypal for many a year both for receiving and paying out.
I have NEVER had any issue whatsoever.
Yeah, you can find plenty of people griping on the web. How many were people playing games as they bend rules to try to feather their pockets? I don't know, but as I said: I can't even remember how long I have had PayPal and wouldn't even want to guess at how many transactions I have put through WITHOUT ONE SINGLE PROBLEM EVER.
As to people's accounts being deleted because of "naysaying", I doubt it. I'd be much more ready to believe that they had hub violations - in other words, more stupid "game playing'.
I'll tell you exactly how I feel about those who think HP is cheating them.. no, never mind I won't. Let's just say it wouldn't be complimentary.
As to whether this Amazon change is good or bad, I think it will be good *for me*. If it's not good for you, you'll want move your stuff elsewhere.
I *do* think it might be polite and helpful if HP would offer to create 301 redirects for content folks want to move. That would seem the fair thing to do and is no real skin off their noses. It does seem unfair to force folks into something they don't want without at least offering that much.
Although I can see the benefit of getting an increase in the commission rate of Amazon products that I sell, I can't help feeling more and more nervous, like some others, that all of my eggs will be in one basket. All it takes is for my adsense account to be banned (god forbid but I hear horror stories) and that is all earnings out the window.
One question is - why do you have to have (or do you?) an adsense account in order to be part of the HP Earnings program if you are not using HP Ads? If that was not the case then at least i would figure that I could still earn from eBay and Amazon if the worst were to happen.
My other thought on that is that I could still earn from Amazon if I had no adsense account but now with the majority of my earnings coming from HP, that is not the case.
Although I feel that things are going reasonably well for me at the moment on Hubpages i definitely need to try and find somewhere to expand into (as well as my own websites which are up and running) so that the majority of my eggs are not here. I tried Squidoo before but got zero views but maybe I need to go back and look again if they have a different payment model.
And as for payment after 90 days...
That concerns me too, and not just for myself.
In the past, if a Hubber lost their Adsense account, they still had some hope of making income from the eBay and Amazon ads on their Hubs.
With the new changes, if a Hubber loses their Adsense account, they lose all hope of making any income.
I don't fully understand why Adsense membership is necessary to be in the HP Earnings Program, unless it's simply that HP are using it as an easy way to screen members...
Adsense is not required for Amazon and eBay, even within the overall set up of HP Ad programs.
HP requires Adsense because irrespective of Hubbers' choice majority of money will come through Google Adsense, and Google will never like to pay someone who has already been banned from Adsense.
I think it's required due to no matter which impressions are showing, there are still Adsense units displayed in combo with HPAds across all impressions on hubs.
You just have too much trust and lack of empathy for those less savvy than you. odd combo!
It is absolutely foolish to ignore the massive amount of problems that paypal users experience. They are not all scammers and thieves ... some are user errors, lack of understanding and some are scammers and sometimes it the fault of PP which has almost zero customer service.
HP seems to have a userbase that is on the low end of the spectrum for tech savvy. You really think that Paypal will be easy for them all .. and who will help them if problems happen .. not HP!
in short, you are still disembodied from any practical reality I have ever experienced. but to each their own and all that jazz. ill send you some spare pom poms
Agree! I had a huge problem with Paypal many years ago. Trying to get a HUMAN (one who is worth a shit) to take care of a problem is an absolutely ridiculous effort and having to dispute something over a lengthy period of time was enough for me to hold a grudge with them. There are PLENTY of people who have had a sour taste put in their mouth by PP; to categorize us all as scammers and thieves is just plain ignorant.
I have to go with Pcunix here - the one time I had trouble with PayPal (theft through an eBay purchase) they were very quick and understanding - far above anything from my bank.
I had to contact the bank a dozen times just to get them to do what they are legally required to do (and the branch manager left as a result) but the home office as well just to keep the bank from adding to my losses.
Paypal on the other hand got most of my money back to me within 24 hours and the remainder took only another day after I showed them their error in currency conversion.
Zero customer service?
In point of fact, every time I have not been able to figure something out, I have had prompt and accurate help from them.
But, sure, I'm a naive idiot and you know best - nothing new there, right?
somehow without the wig i can respond more balanced.
YOU are a system admin, versed in coding languages and experienced in the web probably pre -usenet ... thats an understatement right?
its natural to you.
I was at one time an ebay powerseller , have a paypal credit card and am on the other end of the line for every fmily member and friend and client who has elementary web issues.
I have no problem with paypal and even have a direct number stored in my contacts.
neither of our experiences are good measures of the norm.
i do know from being on the other end of that line that good and genuine people get the shaft from paypal quite frequently nd that navigating the paypal dashboard for assistance is daunting for them.
i also had/have some well placed articles on paypal rrelated problems and have read hndreds of user comments on their problems they have experienced.
so, no, dont think your an idiot .. just somehow unable to see what an experience beneath your own capabilities may be.
I haven't had to use any coding skills with Paypal. I just looked back through last month - over $1,000 in payments in and that's not unusual. Years and years and NO PROBLEMS. A couple of times I couldn't find what I wanted in help - like how to cancel an automatic payment. I asked, they answered and led me through it.
No coding skills. No brain power needed. Money comes in, I transfer to my bank. It's not rocket science.
Im trying to say that for some it is "rocket science" and that accounts get suspended and cancelled more often then you seem to be aware.
If any issues arise with a bank deposit which we all could have been enjoying through the past payment system .. you call the bank press 0 a ton of times and get a calm human. Paypal even when you do use the number leads to an Indian call center where a woman named "Tom" will read you a script.
Thats just how it is.
People could have no ability to have paypal when they joined HP ... now they make a PayPal and Adense account compulsory .. why should an after the fact change such as this be so readily acceptable EVEN IF IT DOESNT EFFECT YOU? .. it shouldnt.
An "opportunity" as HP calls it should be an additional option added on to existing traditions that were in place when people joined and invested time and effort into the site and their writings.
I dont see how that can be disagreed with.
But I DO disagree. I didn't speak to an "Indian" woman - or if I did, she spoke impeccable English.
First of all you imposed capitalism through immoral institutions like IMF and World Bank, and when the same capitalism began to haunt you back... you start preaching for protectionism.
I don't "preach for protectionism". How on earth do you get that idea?
Sounds like an axe to grind. Maybe a Paul (Bunyan) one.
ha ha ha..... leave it, this thread is for a major policy change.
In reality, my political opinions are that eventually we need to bring the entire world to economic parity. We can't be isolationists - that's both morally wrong and politically foolish. However, rich countries have been exploiting poor countries for so long that it is really hard to turn it around over night, so I don't have any good answers for how we do that.
We certainly shouldn't be letting multinational corporations move into China, exploit them until their standard of living goes up a tiny bit and then move on to exploit somewhere else. But I don't know how can we stop that.
And I sure don't know what it has to do with Amazon!
yep me too, although the very last time I needed help on paypal the woman was pleasant but of absolutley no help- some of them are good others suck, it may also depend on the staff where ever your calling from. I dont'' thing their call center is centralized i.e. in other countries they use more local call centers so even if I always had great Paypal customer service (and I have and I ran into a few problems with fraud/theft (credit card number stolen) from online sites, but others in other call center areas i.e. overseas, may not have the same training or attention to detail my service center had. This happens even from state to state in the us (not specifically paypal, I don't know how they work it but for other companies that use multiple call centers located in different states i.e. earthlink had 5 in 5 different states) all run by someone in charge of THAT center and well, some are well run others suck even though you'd think it should be uniform that's not the case.
I've been using PP since the turn of the millenium. Never had a problem.
The minute this is enforced on us, I am out, together with all my articles.
Paypal have had their ups and downs, support is VARIED depending on what you need them to do (For instance I have never had any trouble getting a refund frmo a bad purchase, but trying to get account support was a nightmare).
Likiewise many people have trouble free experiences with using their services, while other have had their account placed on hold for over a month, not good if your websites payment systems are set up through Paypal.
My main issue is Paypals currency transaction rates.
My main issue with the Amazon transfer to Hubpages is lack of reporting combined with lack of reason.
The move with eBay was justifiable, but there is no reason at all to make this move other than to let thousands of dollars sit in the Hubpages bank accounts.
Again, please keep this optional, I don't want to have to wait 90 days for my money, I don't want to lose my Amazon reporting and tracking, and I especially don't want to lose even more money.
PapPal. I've used PP on and off for years. I've experienced two issues with their system, neither of which provide a satisfactory result to my benefit. Customer service? They do have a system of sorts. On both occasions I was locked out of my account and left to 'hang' until someone saw fit to answer my emails as to why.
I doubt (very much) that I would have been emailed as a natural follow through re suspending my account. I was told that there'd been 'suspicious' activity on my account, performed by a third party. That was it. After some time my account was freed up, all good. But for the fact that some money had gone from it and I never saw it again.
As an aside (but still about PP), I had $75 deposited into my PP acount a few hours ago. Before I'd even got to the currency conversion 'loss', PP removed $4. The amount they plunder grows with the amount deposited. Tying that with with how Amazon pay me now, I get a check. It doesn't matter what the amount is, I am charged a flat fee of £9. Nice, transparent, honest.
PapPal isn't quite that straightforward. And, for those extolling the virtues of PP, who regulates PayPal? No one. They are pretty much a law unto themselves. Which is why I use them for as little as possible. A financial instution of their proportions with no regulating body?
Like this chap states:
"You know, what’s probably most telling about PayPal’s lack of accountability and effective regulation is that if you do a Google search for “who regulates paypal” you don’t go to a page on PayPal’s site where they lay out clearly to their customers how they’re regulated. Or a Financial Ombudsman page. Or a UK Government consumer advice page or… or..
No. You just get my post.
Just take a moment to think about what that actually means. Astonishing."
Almost two years after he made that statement, his post is still at the top of the page when you try and search for who to turn to if PayPal start messing with your money.
Think about that.
Just because it is working for me, it must be good for others or else they're scammers eh?
Paypal is scamming users on currency conversion rate for quite some time. My recent withdrawal to bank shows paypal's currency conversion rates: 1USD= 46INR. That means there is 3$ difference in the currency conversion (if you check the currency conversion rate for entire week on foreign exchange market, they're way off that rate) and that reflects in transaction.
There are many cases where wordpress theme and plugin developers are getting chargebacks and regularly getting ripped off from buyers. I'm damn sure there are many ebay and other shop sellers facing similar problems with paypal. Oh wait, these sellers are scammers because paypal works for me (as buyer and seller) and if it is not working for others then they're either selling crap or they're doing something wrong,it's not problem with paypal.
Maybe Paypal is good with support and service for united states and canada users (who knows ?)but that's not the case for their offshore users or businesses.
Oh my God! I just checked my withdrawals and found that you are right. There is a $3 difference in currency conversion rates. Now we have all the more reason why we should avoid Paypal.
I didn't understand what do u mean? I withdrew $10 got 476. something. Is that wrong??
OMG the conversion rate was:
Actually 1USD = 49.4805 USD on the day I withdrew i.e 3rd November acc to http://fx-rate.net/USD/INR/
According to paypal 1USD = 47.56 INR. (Rippers !! . these small amounts collect up and become huge PP fools )
Total diff = 1.9205 INR per $10.
I never knew pay pal are scammers!!!
I think the price you pay is a function of demand and supply (as in everything else). Even if PP seems to be scamming, what other alternative, say, freelancers in India have? NONE.
Alternatives will mean you have to have your own sites etc, and you will still need to pay fees and charges.And more to the point, is the person at the other end, the one who is paying you, going to accept it?
They make you jump through hoops for verifying account etc, but can you take your custom elsewhere?
All said, PP is still the most widely accepted and convenient method of transferring funds. A lot of people even trust it.
Hi Sidd PP says they are completely free. They get their income from paid accs.
Yes about it being the only option is true - that's sad
Paypal is the best option that Indians have. People who are against Paypal should forward a single alternative in Inida. NONE. If they are providing this type of fast and error free service then you must have to compromise somewhere, or better choose others....... and, here comes the demand and supply theory....
The most important positive with Paypal is the fact that Indian 'scheduled' banks trust it.
I am yet to encounter any customer care problem with Paypal, at least for mail communication.
I only write for Indians, and don't target Amazon. With average 2,000 visits a day I am earning better. Google is certainly giving more in terms of exchange rate, but HPAds is giving 'much' more in terms of eCPM. And, then without a direct bank transfer facility, Adsense Checks is really a problem especially if you are residing in hinterland like me where there is no service area of DTH - bluedart....
As for Amazon, 99.90 percent hubbers population will be benefitted with 8.50% commission. It doesn't matter whether HP is caring for hubbers or not, but this move is generally going to help the huge majority.
And, I do support the demand of US, and European Hubbers to have an alternative mechanism, or better a provision for optional HPAds and Amazon integration... it is perfectly doable and they should do it for some of our stars.
Yes I agree. Also I look for the integration to happen as well as I prefer paypal to check any day. The only other better option would be direct bank transfer.
The only thing I would ask is that a direct bank transfer should also have the option of the user requesting a payment threshold, that may well be higher than the current threshold.
Banks make their money from charging users international exchange when moving monies from one currency to another.
No problem with Google, they pay out in local currency, but Amazon pay in dollars which is why I set my limit to $1000 to avoid the hefty charges.
HP Earnings will also be in dollars, and if my bank took $20 in charges for each transaction of $100 or more, then I would be as well having a higher payment threshold like I do with Amazon.
Direct bank transfer does not avoid the charges, I'm afraid.
This is something everyone outside of the US needs to think about.
My mistake. The difference in foreign exchange rate offered by Paypal is not $3 as mentioned in my earlier comment but INR 3 per dollar which means on a $1000 Paypal earns roughly INR 3000 (approx $65) which is ripping off.
I have to admit that I am not at all pleased about this. One of the main reasons that I loved Hubpages was that it paid through my own affiliate accounts, so that I did not have all of my eggs in one basket so to speak. It is so easy for any business to go under these days that I much prefer to have my income spread over several different accounts.
The fact that Hubpages is now changing everything into Hubpages accounts will once again make me lose more money and at the same time, put my Hubpages eggs into one basket.
The best thing about the Amazon program is that you can put the earnings from all of your sites into one account that builds momentum through quantity of purchases. This change will affect all of my sales to Amazon by reducing the quantity of the total, and the amount I may or may not earn more from Hubpages will not make up for that.
In addition paying out at 90 days is just inexcusable, when Amazon pays out at 60 days. The money should turn over to us immediately.
We will be paying at or a bit before 60 days for Amazon in most circumstances. However the option for us to extend payments to 90 days is an important protection against fraud, because of the way Amazon handles returns in their program. I'm not sure how everyone concluded that we'd be paying everyone at 90 days from Marina's post, but hopefully this sets the record straight.
Currently in the Ad Program, we actually pay authors a week or more before we get the first dollar in from advertisers (and in some cases a month or more before). So the reality is, for the last year is that we have been floating money to authors, rather than vice versa. Though, as the amount of money flowing through HubPages Earnings Program increases, we may end up moving payments back about a week so as to align them with when we actually get paid by Google, Amazon, and eBay (which generally fall between the 22nd and the 28th of the month).
Paul: I know this is a little of topic, but are you considering different means of payment? Paypal is great but it does leave a lot of people hanging and there is quite a bit of distrust with the system.
One idea is the use of pre-paid visa cards - I'm sure there's a lot of administraton involved, but I am sure some people will be willing to pay a small fee to have this opportunity - there are plenty of sites that pay via re-fillable visa cards!
Of course if you need a finance director to work on this and other payment options, just give me a call LOL!
We have done our best to implement the earnings program so that we could support additional payment options, when and if they make sense. However, Paypal really does offer the best combination of broad international coverage, ease of implementation, and reasonable fees.
We have spent some time investigating other options, and I believe the most cost efficient alternative to paypal is bank to bank electronic funds transfers. But, those are considerably more difficult to manage than paypal and frankly, require a higher degree of trust (in HubPages anyway) from the enrollee. in a situation where, in the anti-paypal crowd at least, a high level of general distrust seems to reign, I fear that may not be a particularly palatable alternative ...
Fair points - another option is to send all the money that cannot be paid to our Indian friends to me and I promise to pass it along - after my administration fee of course!
Why? Open a second (or third or fourth) bank account. Keep $10 in it. If HP goes a-thievin' they won't find much. It's how I work my paypal account - it is linked to a bank account that I leave just a few $$ in and have instructed the bank to deny any overdrafts.
Yes this should work fine. It would be the most viable option
I don't think they could go a-theiving as even a payment transfer to your bank (direct deposit) it's a one way transaction there is no transaction going the other way- it's like putting money into a friends account by knowing their bank number- but then again knowing that bank number may be where your talking about as some cleaver hackers can use that number to rob your account. I see where hubpages is validly being cautious though... I feel for the Indian community- paypal needs to stop being lazy and take those steps- there is a lot of money being generated from India and they use that money to invest (the banks sole purpose and way of making money), i don't understand why they would not comply- unless they (paypal) have something to hide.
Our understanding is that the paypal limit in India is $3,000 per payment, perhaps subject to certain verification requirements. If there are Indian hubbers that have paypal accounts and are unable to be paid their full earnings program monthly balance, they should contact us. We will do our best to accomodate them.
... And THAT kind of dedication is why we absolutely love this site- (I'm in the USA but still- wow)... Kudos.
Hi Paul, thanks for this. I'm far from reaching this threshold here. But glad to know that we can contact you'll.
That is quite a good thing. But what about the countries where users are not able to receive/open/deposit/withdraw from PayPal accounts?
I have always found the HP Team extremely helpful. And Paul's assurance to help speak volumes about the dedication of the team in helping Hubbers.
I would personally LOVE if HP would offer a direct deposit. Even if there was a charge involved. I would rather pay HP a small fee than deal with Paypal (only because I've had a bad experience with them). I would even be happy to pay a fee for a paper check (although not the most environmentally-friendly option).
I like the idea about a prepaid card as well. Why not Payoneer? I work on Elance and I have a lot of my money transferred to my Payoneer card and the rest to my bank account. Even Infolinks offers Payoneer payments. Just a suggestion.
I would like a direct deposit option too!
My trust issue isn't with HP, and I have never yet had a problem with Paypal, but much as I dislike banks and banking in general, they are a necessary way of life.
At least my bank is open about how much they rip me off by.
Can't say the same for Paypal.
Okay..we have TWO votes Izzy! Although...my posts always seem to be invisible so not sure that my vote would even count toward anything.
OMG you must be my long lost twin sister! We think so alike here.
Right come one guys and gals, who wants a direct deposit option?
You give HP your banking details, and don't forget, if you mistrust HP in any way you can always open a new bank account just for them!
I don't have such issues. They are a huge internet company, they will not rip you off over this.
It just feels better to me, I'd prefer this option to Paypal or some credit card scheme.
lol. Should we start a petition? Would it hold any ground? I'm in I'm in!
Unfortunately, Izzy, I worked in banking for more than twenty years (including International Banking) and know that this can never be a viable financial option in realistic terms, in modern times, for Hubbers outwith the USA at least. The cost of making one month's payouts would bankrupt Hub Pages several times over...
WHY should it cost so much?
Honestly. the international banking community should hang its head in shame!
Nice wee earner for them, looking after people's money. Yet if it weren't for the people, they'd be nothing.
I am sickened by banks.
In the UK, you can get free banking just by staying in the black.
It took me a long time to realise, but here in Spain you could get free banking just by buying shares in the company.
When every business or employer is demanding you have a bank account to pay your wages into, the last thing you need is to get told it costs X amount for every withdrawal you make, or every DD you set up.
THEY HAVE OUR MONEY!
That is how they make money. They buy or sell on the international exchange. They use money that might be your wages.
Why do you think it takes 3 days to cash a cheque? Or more...
Because the transaction is instantaneous, and the bank needs to make money too.
Used to be 3 days to cash a cheque, and those were pre-internet days. Why does it take 7 days now?
Dirty rip-off thieving conyos! And that is me saying it nicely.
I'm really sorry but I have drafted several replies to this post and deleted them all. Bottom line? I resigned from the bank in April 2007 to head in a very different direction. I only meant to clarify a point for you and can assure you my knowledge is absolutely sound. (References available upon request! ) Other than that, I'm afraid my banking days remain well and truly over...
Oh Gordon, my comments were't aimed at you, unless you were an international banker of course, which you obviously weren't or else you'd not be writing here - you'd be sunning yourself in the south of France - no, what I wrote is about banks in general, not you personally.
Well Adsense (Google) pays me direct into my New Zealand account every month - has done for years. I pay no fee for it so it can't be costing them that much, there is no higher minimum for international DP either - just $100 same as for US affiliates
Just caught your reply when replying to Izzy's post.
That is because Google (as one of the largest companies on Planet Earth) has its affiliateships in individual countries. You will probably be paid by google.co.nz - in NZ dollars - not google.com, just as I am paid by google.co.uk., in Pounds Sterling. (Yes - before anyone writes in, I know Google did this previously as well - that is one of the benefits of being squillionaires!)
Amazon.com will not pay non-US affiliates by any means other than postal cheque/check. That is for one reason and one reason only...
Hope all these issues are soon resolved to everyone's satisfaction!
I think it makes a huge amount of sense for HP to offer this as an option. So yes, count me in too. Although I think my votes are probably invisible as well.
If your votes are invisible then whats mine??
Count me in
Funny how we just go unnoticed, yes? But as soon as certain people join the conversation their concerns are addressed nearly immediately. Interesting how that is.
Well, wouldn't that make sense?
I earn maybe $50-$60 a month here and even that is only very recent. There are people here earning 10 and 20 times that who have been doing that for a long, long time - doesn't it make sense that HP might be more interested in their concerns?
However - if a lot of small folks do ask for the same thing, I'm sure that matters too.
So, while I don't need anything but PayPal myself, I certainly do agree that it is good to have options.
I also still think that HP should offer 301 redirects to those who want to move their content because of policy changes (and again, I'm not moving any content - except maybe *to* HP).
No. It doesn't. Why should I be less important than someone who's been here a year longer than me? Are my profiles any less important? Is what I have to say any less important? I think not. Sorry you may think that what you have to say not as valuable as someone else but I'm not in the habit of ranking myself down in that way. So...I've been here seven months longer than you; should I think of myself as being more worthy of a reply? I don't.
I agree with the redirects but I certainly wouldn't hold my breath.
Well, you may not like it, but I think that is reality. I certainly don't mean that HP doesn't care what you and I might think, but it makes more sense for them to pay the most heed to people who make the most income for them.
Again, if many "small" people have the same concern, that should be important too, but HP is a business and a business always cares about money first.
What about all the really high earners whose concerns were ignored here after Panda hit?
I hate to say it, but HP seems to have favorites - teachers pets if you will - who they listen to, and indeed promote over the rest of us.
You mean that the concerns of some spammers and fake link builders may have been ignored?
That's a fair old judgement. I've lost as much as any, HP income wiped out. I neither spammed nor fake backlinked.
It may surprise you to know that link building still works btw. It shouldn't, but Google 'made it so'.
Anybody who builds fake links for the purpose of fooling Google into thinking their pages are more valuable than they are is, in my opinion, a spammer.
I quite understand that a lot of people disagree and I have no interest in arguing about it. I'll not be rising to any bait offered in that area.
Otherwise - sure, more honest people may have had some complaints about HP also. Shrug..
Prepaid card is a cool idea. I used to work at LOWES (home improvement store) and they would pay our paycheck by simply dropping money in our prepaid visa (they gave us when hired)-
That was a great way to get paid and you could just verify you got paid at any ATM machine!
(although for the record I love paypal- I've had my credit card number stolen 5 times (and figured out which "trusted" site it was whose employee stole it) and they have been amazing and expedient at
1. Giving me my money back WHILE they investigated (fronted it and we can spend it)
2. one phone call and they did all the paperwork (that you'd usually have to do by filling out forms on the site that I find tedious)
3. I've never had a single issue with them (but have heard of many others who have- but customer service and fraud protection have been phenomenal
Maybe I'm just lucky?
I stopped using the paypal card online though-
I switched to prepaid cards as you just never know- sure I know the money is safe- but it still takes days to recover and my bank is the real problem, they told me "we don't refund overdrafts unless it's our fault" meaning someone stole my PP number, charged up 200.00 of which most came out of my bank (instant transfer) and although paypal was great, they tried to jack me! (home federal bank Oregon). Paypal resolved it in 24 hours from my call (money back in paypal), the bank took a month and only after fighting with them (politely but firmly) about their rediculous rule. I threatened to call the local news about it, that always works!
The lady even said to my face "it's not our fault so why should we have to take the fees off!" (that upset me more than the problem!) I said because it didn't cost you a dam thing to put them on? wth? (Michelle stopped me from continuing a conversation AT the bank that day lol...
I called corporate and guess what- they took ALL of the fees off... so if that happens to you call corporate- don't let the "branch manager" bully you. The end. Off topic a bit but thought I'd share to help others who may have become a victim- bottom line though- Paypal has been wonderful.
To further help set the record straight regarding payments, here are two graphics: one showing the current HEP payment cycle, and one showing the new HEP payment cycle that will be in effect starting late December. The two differences being:
1. The payout date will change from the 20th of the month to the 28th of the month.
2. We will pay out your Amazon balances on or slightly before 60 days. We will continue to pay out eBay and the Ad Program on an (approximate) 30 day window.
Current payment cycle:
Payment cycle starting in December:
(Click to enlarge photos)
Not a surprise, but it sure would have been nice to have Dec. on the 20th. Christmas, you know, and that will cut a pretty big hole in the budget this year.
"and one showing the new HEP payment cycle that will be in effect starting late December. The two differences being: "
By late december I think they mean post holiday i.e. after christmas itself (so beyond the 25th). The whole reason they are waiting is so publishers who depend on the current system for their earnings on and off hubpages that the new system will disrupt can at least get through the highest paying part of the year before it's implemented. I would assume that this means you WILL get that 20th payout-
Am I correct in assuming this (HP admin) Marina?
Going to miss that 20th payout- 8 days before adsense (and bigger) but I'll adjust thanks for the info (great graph)
Oh and if we are going to get into PayPal, that is how they make their money, through ripping off their customers with international exchange rates that are well below the accepted bank rate.
Then why isn't Payoneer an option? Providers from all over the world work on Elance and have their money transferred to their Payoneer card with no problem. They're also used by Infolinks, Odesk, Rena, Veer, BuyAt, Freedom Rocks, dreamstime, 2CO, Plimus and more. And..you only need one card and you can link other platforms to it. I have Elance and Infolinks on my card. Surely Hubpages could offer this option?
"Pay pal is available in more than 190 countries worldwide". Unfortunately residents of more than 120 of these 190 countries can not withdraw funds from their pay pal accounts into their local bank accounts. Instead pay pal requires them to have US bank accounts to be able to make withdraws.
I agree, if there was any chance of direct deposit (and there seems to be a hint that might be an option) then I would prefer that.
So, we are all equal, but some are more equal than others here on HP?
Who ever said we were equal?
Why do we have scores if we are "equal?"
We're not. And I'm more equal than you are, at least for today!
I wasn't complaining about HP. Nor was I attempting to bait you.
He is still whining to google and deleting his spammy content ---- to no avail.
Still - lets get this discussion back on the topic of hubpages attempt to change the agreement they entered into and why some of us would like the choice to accept the "opportunity" to lose money rather than be forced into it.
Fascinating as Jerrico's personal anecdotes are....
I absolutely agree that forcing you into a different relationship is not great.
If you can convince HP to back off, I would think that would be wonderful. If not, you can either stay and take the loss or move your content elsewhere and try to rebuild. If you are going to do the latter, I think it would only be fair for HP offer 301 redirects for any pages you choose to move or for your whole sub-domain if you move it all.
For me, little non-backlinking fool that I am, this Amazon change can be nothing but beneficial so I am only supporting you on this because I feel it is morally correct to do so.
BTW - I had no spammy content. What I deleted was ANCIENT content and weak pages of no particular value. But the "to no avail" part is dead right. I think a lot of my loss came when other websites who had organically linked to me cleaned up THEIR old content because of Panda.. it's a cascade affect of links disappearing because of links disappearing. I lost some very powerful links there.. not much I can do about that. I've given up "whining" and have accepted reality. I'm just going to keep on trucking as I always have because that's what I did before the Internet was monetized and that's what I'm going to keep on doing no matter what.
Weak pages of no particular value = SPAM - in my opinion.
BUT - you don't have the full story. I have a signed agreement with HP and was paid to write much of my content.
This is spread over many accounts. HP refused to consolidate those accounts when they switched to subdomains.
So, currently they are consolidated in my Amazon account, but will be split if I am forced to use HPads only. This is not a good thing for me.
The agreement we have states that I must not remove my content - BUT - now they are changing the payment arrangements.
I do not want to be exposed to this much risk. BUT - my agreement states that I cannot remove my content.
I am a non backlinking fool at times myself - but - that does not work on many niches. I have at least 300 sites I have never built a link to and they all make money.
Waiting on Paul Deed's answers.
Will I get a choice or not?
Glad you have stopped whining. That was not pleasant to watch - a lot of people made fun, but I felt for you. Edmondson's whining was pretty bad as well. Didn't feel much there.
Well, then you are in a different position.
However, if they are breaking their side of the agreement, why would you be bound to your side?
Well, whatever: I wish you luck in straightening it out.
Btw, don't feel too badly for me. I lost a few thou a year. It won't kill me. We still have food and heat :-)
And we still shop at whole Foods and Trader Joes - so we cannot have needed that money all that badly!
What do you mean by weak pages? Have you ever seen the first page result of Google? For most of queries they pop out Yahoo! Answers. And, most of answers are fake, copied, duplicated.
I think we all should stick to a simple principle, stated by Edmondson long before Panda Update. That is "Choose you topic, check Google results for that particular keywords, check the websites on the first page, if there is no heavyweight then try to write better than all of them. Don't try to backlink, other than twitter and Facebook"
That is what Panda want, IMHO.
I can only tell you what I mean by weak pages.
For me, those included pages that were of value to regular visitors to my site but not to new, pages that I wrote to document some obscure fact that might be of great value to a very small number of people but not to most and pages whose time had passed but still might have historical interest to someone.
I hated deleting those and as it turned out, it didn't help me anyway.
But, then its the responsibility of Google to find *perfect* alternative. After Panda, I have seen some Google results giving out a forum post without any response. Isn't it ridiculous? A question in result without any answer, inspite of the fact that there is lots of quality stuffs around the internet.
And, sadly Biswanath Panda, the architect of Google Panda update, is my neighbor. Waiting for him to come here.
Thanks for the advice. I will surely give it the consideration it deserves.
Please try and stay on the topic of hubbers being forced against their will to lose money by being forced to roll Amazon earnings into HPads. Thanks.
I know I don't deserve to reply you..... but, still shared my little knowledge...
Please stop polluting this thread and stay on topic. Thanks.
Payoneer and paxum are much better for international members (asia and europe). It works similar to paypal but cards are limited to few countries. SWIFT fees are high but bank transfers are done on same day.
I mentioned Payoneer several times but no one seems to be listening. I agree...LOVE Payoneer and I'm happy to pay the extra charge for same day transfer and it goes through within 4 hours. You have my vote here! I've been using Payoneer for a couple years with not one problem.
My vote goes to you,
Even I have been using Payoneer for a long time. Although their fees sometimes go outrageous (especially if you're in Pakistan), I can withdraw it without any hassles. PayPal accounts in my country are not able to receive/withdraw any money.
Well, I will be out if this thing goes into effect.
There is a rememdy. Hubbers start websites, send messages to other hubbers. Simple, we post on each others sites. This way, our earnings are ours, and ours alone.
Perhaps I am the only one happy about this opportunity, so I would like to say thanks, on behalf of the hubbers that live in states like CT, where Amazon simply closed our affiliate accounts following tax law changes. This change will allow me to participate again. So, thanks.
No, you aren't the only one. I'm happy too, but I do understand why others are not and I really wonder if HP is going to be able to do this without inflicting damage upon themselves.
Nope, I'm VERY happy with the change- My income is skyrocketing so much I've decided to move 60 domains worth of content over to Hubpages as hub series- tedious but every hub seems to be adding to my income even in the short run- I created 55 hubs in the last 2 days woot woot... but I also see where the rest are coming from- but it doesn't affect me in any way but positive so I'm all for it.
If you are declaring a service payment 'personal' you will avoid a few but are technically dodging a legal fee in at least some cases which might bite you if you get audited
One thing I would really like to see here (assuming it really is going to happen, of course - with all these complaints, I wonder) is an ability to specify "either/or" on e-bay and Amazon capsules.
There are hubs where there just isn't room to have both. For me, it's usually because there are too many pictures I want to include. If I could specify both an ebay and an amazon capsule and let HP rotate them in and out and then give favor to whichever seems to be most successful, I think that would be a wonderful option.
How different we are Jericho. My income is skyrocketing anywhere but Hubpages. And we're hubbing in the opposite direction. I'm moving hubs off, you're moving external content on.
I know right?
I think it's more about not having the time (or desire) to promote my off hubpages properties and delegating that to moving things here since income is going up when I do, (without promo my sites make chit, but here no promo and they earn about the same so....)
My sites have very well written content but I keep neglecting them (thousand irons in the fire with my books and other projects taking the bulk of my time).
If nothing else I can "store" my sites here, let them brew up some income then later rebuild the sites (keeping all the domains just pointing them here instead to the series the content is created from) and maybe later I'll get back into the sites (then I'll just have the content rewritten/ghostwritten so I don't' have to remove them from here)...
I've got 800 articles to publish, already written and ready to translate into hubs via capsule building- soooo time consuming (especially when HP flags them as dupe because the content still shows in Google's cache till they craw my sites and see the content is gone)...
But I multitask 10 things at once and throw a hub in the mix as my "play" part of the day. Meanwhile I keep stumbling upon different formatting tricks to add to one of my books and to spruce up my hubs.
I hope your off hubpages ventures keep going up FrogDropping (I didn't catch your real name) - while, lol, I hope my on hubpages ventures continue to skyrocket
What's funny is I almost sold off my domains/sites/content for chump change (due to earnings plumetting and no promo for 6 months after frustration built up by the algo changes) but simply couldn't get rid of them for nothing- They'd be gone, the 2k would be gone, and I'd be wondering why didn't I just put them on hubpages and earn 2k in 6 months from them then still have them earning money?
I spent too much time writing and perfecting them (SEO, LSI, etc...), I'm moving everything here from ezinearticles promo articles (for these same sites over the years) to the sites content to content that I wrote years ago but never thought to put on HP...
My goal is to build up 1-2k hubs in the next 6 months, then spin off my longer hubs into several each (some can be turned into 5-10 hubs a piece (early days writing was way too long but still useful)- so 2k hubs.
I came to an epiphany that hub series are a great way to go because although each hub would be self sufficient in it's own right, it's also part of a larger theme (i.e. a site broken into 12 hubs where it was a 12 page site). The benefit here is that ONE visitor will read the one, then click through to the next (more page impression income from each visitor), then the next and so on- a 15 hub series could yield 15x the impressions from each visitor since it's different hubs and likely they won't read them all the same day either so it could lead to more...
Anyone know what the highest hub count on HP is these days? I doubt the team would tell us that but would be nice to know- anyone have 1k+ hubs? I broke 500 yesterday I'd like my hub count to match my fan count as a barometer- I'm testing the sites algorithm in many ways...
Have a good one!
Don't know if this is the highest number, but it's high:
That IS pretty high. Someone also has over 4,000 Hubs, but has no income producing feaures on them. I cannot remember his name.
Wow, I was wondering if anyone was higher than 2498 Man I have my work cut out for me- 4k is quite a lot- If you figure out who that is let me know i wonder if there is a way to do a search for that hub count spot specifically... I'm curious whose the top dog, cause I want that spot course it will likely take me a few years to reach 4k from a mere 531, although I published 112 hubs in the past week and have 1k more left... and still need to go back and update/format them...
on the other persons income producing features- adsense is not something you can see readily- nor is the ad program opt in- it's likely they have at least that running...
No ads at all. It would "mess up their disability income."
Actually, I don't know if that is true nationwide. Many I know receiving disability from SSDI and VA tell me that any work interfere with benefits, but I know in Ohio, one can work part-time and those earnings are subtracted from SSDI monthly, the limit to earnings being an amount up to $1.00 less than the disability check amount. That way, people stay in the system in case they need more of the check in future. That's the report for the SS office recently.
disability? Isn't having 3k hubs and not earning from it a disability? I'd chance it at that point as I think the income could be much more than that check... yikes, I'd have to transfer them to someone who could earn from it and split the difference... just seems like a waste to have that many hubs and not earning from it...
Why thank you Jericho, I wish you the same. I'm still around, the nut doesn't fall far from the tree
Atleast Squidoo gives its writers a choice . You can use their Amazon modules or you can use your own Amazon affiliate links. Hubpages has now removed that option. You can officially put me in the "make this opportunity optional" camp.
That being said, I am not completely upset about this new development since 1) it was expected and 2) I made the decision awhile back to stop writing here.
I check my stats and keep the hubs I have updated. Otherwise, I am done.
yea but that the only choice they give you at SQ, sure you can pick your modules, but you can't make any money unless you shell out tons of money to promote- sq is only good for backlink building not making money- although if your a good IMMer then you can utilize the site to make money but for the layman or those not wanting to do more than write an article, you can't make money there. I have over 300 articles on SQ and I followed the same things I did here and today a year later not a single dime in earnings- even though my "lenses" have had substantial traffic and even some backlinks built towards them... sq sucks, useless unless you want a backlink, seriousely. Comparing SQ to HP is apples and oranges, dogs and cats, (better one), fish and sharks... I'm getting ready to move ALL that content to a site I can earn from- HP.
I have been on Squidoo since '07 and I don't shell out ANY money to promote, in fact I do little to no promotion at all. And I make quite a bit of money over there. Last month I made close to 6 times more on Squidoo than I made on HP.
Anyway, I don't want to change this thread to a Squidoo vs. Hubpages debate. I was just stating a fact regarding Amazon in response to what someone else posted. That's all. At the end of the day, everyone needs to spend their time on the platforms that work the best for the pages they are writing.
I use my Amazon ID on other sites as well. Will this screw up my earnings on those other sites? I would hope not. I do not want to lose my independence with Amazon.
Your amazon sales through HP will no longer go to your personal amazon account.
Everything on HP will be handled through your new HP/Amazon affiliation. It won't affect your off-HP account use though.
Or at least that's how I read the explanations.
What happens on HubPages has no effect on other sites. HubPages admins have no control over your Amazon associates IDs and commissions on other sites. They only control HubPages. There's no need to worry about them taking over your commissions elsewhere.
But if you were at top tier, losing sales here could conceivably cost you that rate for your sales elsewhere.
For me, having never been anywhere near top tier, HP would be a big improvement. For someone else, it could mean they make out equally well here but less well in other places, could it not?
I don't understand any of this. HP has made this so confusing, it is pathetic. I wish they would just leave it alone.
Would there be anyway to participate in the Hubpages program for Amazon but not for Adsense?
Yes, once Amazon is live, you will be able to participate in that Program in particular without an AdSense account. An active Google AdSense account is required only for the Ad and eBay components of the Earnings Program. Though, you'll still need to provide tax information and a PayPal account: http://hubpages.com/faq/#hepenroll
cool.. but what if I have an AdSense account, but dont want to use the Ad component of Hubpage program (and just want to use the Amazon component).
You have to have active Adsense in order toearn from Hub pages programs.
This is not necessary if you only want to use Amazon. It is necessary if you want to use ebay and HPAds. Staff have stated many times that Adsense approval is not necessary for Amazon (at least right now).
"Case #2 – I am not enrolled in the HubPages Earnings Program. I would like to sign up for the Amazon Program
You will need to sign-up for a HubPages Earnings Program account. Under “Settings” you will see the options for the Ad Program, eBay Program, and Amazon Program. You may run the Amazon Program even if you decide to disable display advertising from the Ad Program. For the Program(s) you select, review the disclosures, provide the required information, and submit. If you select Amazon, HubPages will confirm your information. Then any Amazon capsules will begin to credit you for your referrals to eBay.
Note that while you do not need to participate in the Ad Program in order to participate in the Amazon Program, you do need remain in good standing with HubPages and compliant with any rules that Amazon may set for the program. This includes having an up-to-date account in the HubPages Earnings Program."
It just gets more vague, and more confusing. One minute you have to go through hub pages, the next minute you don't.
Maybe HP needs to have a LIVE webinar, conference call for hubbers to clarify things. But, if that happens, we will actually know what is going on, rather than being kept confused as usual.
What is the catch to all of this. I am sure it is not to benefit hubbers.
But, you don't earn from the HP programs unless you do have Adsense.
I'm sorry, but that's not the case.
You need an active AdSense account, in good standing, to participate in the Ad Program (1) and the eBay Program (2).
For the upcoming Amazon Program, an AdSense account is not required.
Paul said, "In early November folks will have the opportunity to switch to get paid their Amazon earnings through the HP Earnings program." I'm not surprised that the time estimate was overly optimistic, but do we we have a revised target date yet? I am assuming that an easy way to tell when this has become effective is to check the Earnings | Settings page for a new option to configure.
Anyone contemplating the upcoming changes really, Really, REALLY needs to go to this thread and explore a few of the uglier TOS details that have been uncovered in connection to the impending HubPages-administrated version of the Amazon program.
We're all going to be subjected to mystery formulas and blind calculations for our payouts. And there's not a single possibility of recourse ever.
does opting out of the amazon & ebay allow for more HP ad earnings? Or does it not make one blind bit of difference?
I read this thread earlier with the excerpt from HP TOS about the Amazon program. I hope everyone reads it.
I have to change plans.
If they are going to calculate the amazon earnings like they do the eBay ones then it is impossible to decipher what is going on and I also want to think of an exit strategy :-(
In case anyone missed this posting by Paul Edmondson - (in another forum post item) here is the link to something connected to the Amazon TOS
http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/87482?p … ost1877556
I will quote it here to make things simpler - hope that is OK with the team.
Joined: 5 years ago
I'm pulling the TOS questions and we will review them on Monday. We appreciate the questions.
Hopefully by the end of the day we can post a few more responses or add things to the FAQ.
Posted 12 hours ago"
Sorry it does not look neat but it would feel wrong to edit it to tidy it up.
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