I know a lot of people will say that this isn't necessary but wouldn't it help reduce spammers. Admit it, most of the people on HP who spam are without a bio and avatar. I know there are some sock pockets that go through the extra trouble to create real-looking accounts but I am sure that after a while they get tired of it.
The other thing I am suggesting is making the sign up process with a little more details.
I don't remember what happened with my first account but my second only asked for user name and email. Shouldn't there be more information?
If these suggestions suck them maybe we can come up with better ones.
No rude comments please....this forum is meant to be a friendly discussion.
I like that idea. I try to check out the new hubbers about once a week and will skip any without a photo or avatar. There seems to be a lot! I spend more time clicking through the list to find the few that have made an effort:)
I find that your suggestion is rude or inconsiderate, as far as the "minimum 150 word bio." None of your business how many words Hubbers need to describe themselves.
Your own bio appears to be about 100 words long. Which goes to show how far off the mark you are as far as setting a reasonable standard.
I bow to your admonishment WE.......I don't remember the last time someone called me rude...naughty maybe but rude....hmmmm
Should we make it 15 words instead since the amount of words I suggested seems to be the issue? At least the 15 words would be less than my bio.
I thought the issue here was weeding out the spammers before they infect the site. Does it matter how many words I suggested? It was just a suggestion. Instead of calling me rude why not make a better suggestion?
Oh, 150 words would mean that I would have to increase my bio...I see no problem with that!
Maybe staff should now close this forum since I seem to be offending people all of a sudden!
I never called you rude. I said that your suggestion was "rude or inconsiderate," not judging either way. 15 words sounds more realistic! Getting new Hubbers to provide a short bio and a profile image can be built into the sign-up process. Not a bad idea.
Doesn't seem like a horrible idea... maybe not 150 words but a bio of some sorts.
After they sign up redirect them to their profile and say "pop in a picture and a bio and you can start writing"
Feels like more of an online community when everyone has some sort of pictorial representation and a little bit about themselves on their profile.
Actually, I've seen many spammers open up profiles with avatars and bios with at least that many words, as your suggesting. Therefore, I don't know if that'll be as effective though. I think if you really want to curtail spammers, hubpages should make all new users will have to wait at least a week before they're allowed to post in forums.
Not saying it would get rid of spammers completely, as I'm sure they would still find a way, but it's an option.
I so agree that it should be mandatory for a hubber to have at least enough information in their BIO for others to feel comfortable about following them. 150 words is not a lot to accomplish and would at least give others an idea of what the person is like, his/her interests and reasons for joining HubPages.
I do not think a picture of the person is necessary -- there are many people who, for good reasons, do not wish to show their picture publicly.
I think this sound reasonable. Although there may be a few who simply don't want to use an avatar.
Hi RebekahELLE, that's reasonable.
I just saw the forum Pcunix created and wanted to add that maybe HP could hold newbies for 6 hours and give the greet team time to scroll through them before publishing.
I think as the greet team, since we have volunteered, should be able to monitor this before that crap gets published.
I agree with you'll getting a chance to go through them. But don't you think they'll be just too many? HP does know that people use it to just create backlinks as well. So they have just one crazy hub (A spun article perhaps) that links back to their site.
We have greeters who greet hundreds of newbies each week, so the greeters will probably have to set a daily quota. Once a newbie has been modified and approved once, they can go through. They don't have to be greeted twice.
Hmm ok I don't know how it works out there as I've never seen a greeters page and what they can do
Cardisa, I agree that a newbie needs to be reviewed before their BIO and acceptance as a hubber is approved. Other sites do this and it greatly helps to keep all kinds of problems from affecting the site.
HubPages is a community of great writers and people and should want to keep the entire site one of quality that is respected and rated high.
Hiya, the one thing I think they should change is people who make an account but never write a hub even for 3 to 4 years! they comment on your stuff, and you go back and see the no hub signs, whats the point?
I agree Nell. I don't really see the purpose. I know they say people just join to read but that could be remedied by having a subscribe button for each profile so that when the hubber publishes a new hub, the reader gets a mail. So they don't have to join HP to read stuff, they just get it in the mail.
There could be 2 options (1) subscribe to a topic and (2) subscribe to an author.
Some people sign up just to be able to follow active Hubbers. Their scores are really low because they don't do anything else. I think it would be an interesting idea if HP would create a "followers account" so people who just want to get notifications can sign up for that type of account. These accounts would not allow publishing or forum posts. But it would allow commenting on Hubs. I realize this is a different issue from people who create accounts for spamming.
HP staff have repeatedly stated they wish to keep this as an open platform with no stonewalls as to writers being able to publish at will. Almost everything already suggested here goes against the HP wishes.
Otherwise, many volunteers, or regular members for that matter, would not be needed as much to police the garbage. More time could also be spent reading and commenting on the works of much more worthy writers. That is, if such a vetting process could be implemented properly. But this is a moot point as we do not get to decide the process. It's fun to discuss, though!
I think some people think they have to join to make comments. I had one yesterday.
I have a friend who thought you needed to be signed up to comment-- so she signed up three years ago to comment on one of my hubs. When she finally decided write some hubs of her own, just recently, she had forgotten that she had signed up.
I think that many of those who sign up and never write may be in the same category.
Having a trial period has been suggested many times by us common members and it was rejected by staff, your Eliteness. But good luck anyway!
Randy, I am not suggesting a trial period, I am suggesting a moderation period. There are some article sites that delay publishing your stuff in order to check for plagiarism, grammar and stuff. I am not suggesting the same thing. I am just suggesting a few hours so all the "Elitenesses" have a chance to moderate them before their stuff gets into the pool of new hubs.
Okay, but who will moderate the elite? Some do have a problem with the language themselves.
Hey Randy, this isn't the elite forum thread that you formed earlier. So, please don't talk about silly things - show me one elite member who has articles that have content as fellow hubbers have posted above and then you could go on if you wish.
If you cannot tell by reading their forum posts then my pointing out further evidence to you would obviously be a waste of both mine and your time, Lobo. And besides, it would merely be used as an excuse for banning me again. I won't go any further as the whole thing is extremely funny to me at this point. You would make a great Elite, by the way.
Randy we were talking about newbies but if I see an Elite breaking the rules I will flag them, no doubt about that. Happy?
And thanks for making me an elite Randy you were banned?
Of course, Lobo! I thought you'd read the entire thread concerning the elite, but since you didn't know about my being banned then obviously you didn't. Yes, I realize it had over 500 posts and this may be why some here have the opinion they do about the subject. I was "mistakenly" banned for 4 weeks with no explanation as to why, or as to which forum topic or post caused the ban. Someone's finger apparently slipped on the keyboard and poof....gone with the wind!
Actually I was quite busy and I did mention that I'm quitting that forum It's been 4 weeks already??
Nope, they reinstated me after my asking them for an official reason for my ban. As stated in my previous post, they said I was "mistakenly banned" and said "we apologize." Otherwise I would still have 3 weeks to go.
Of course it's for real, Cardisa! But at least this time they answered my email and reinstated me. Last time I received no response whatsoever and never knew what I was banned for. But at least I know now I can call someone worrisome and neurotic and get away with it. But only if I am a member of the elite, of course.
No. I tried that, Cardisa. I really don't know how this stuff works. So, if one elite flagged another, would their flag be more important than mine? And also, would elite seniority come into play? LOL! Sorry, just having a bit of fun with you. Carry on with your suggestions as most, if not all of them, have been made many times by HP oldies long before you arrived.
You really do have it in for the actual people called Elite, don't you? You've stated many times how it's "just the title" that you don't agree with, yet time after time, you take shots at anyone who has an "E" in their avatar. You take the shot and then veil it with a ;-) Give it a rest already. There's a thread rolling around about fearing other Hubbers. So I'm going to say what many people are thinking. Give it a rest already.
I think the trial period would be more effective and a better deterrent to would be spammers. Say it was between 4 or 6 articles that had to be checked for duplication,spam and so forth.
I do n't think it would be easy for the greeters/elite to catch all ones that
sign up for the wrong reasons. Anyway it would be a mammoth task to do properly. I have seen a welcome greeting from a greeter on a first time hub from a newbie who clearly stated in their profile that their age was under 18.
I am aware of some of what tries to get in through the new hubbers front door as if I look to that rather than hub hopping.
Failing starting to have a trial period for a set number of hubs, a delay would be better than it going straight online.
I hope HP Staff end up in this thread as I think there are a lot of good ideas here for making spamming less attractive on Hub Pages. N Rose's last idea might mess me up, tho' - 'cos my first account sits unused for months at a time. This - My "Noob" account - has some content in it that I need to review, edit, etc. IF Nell Rose's ideas are heard and implemented, I'm going to have a LOT of work do to in the near future... lol. I suppose this is a head's up!
I think forcing people who don't really want to take the time to fully participate in the site as a way of raising the site quality is a waste of time and resources.
Admin should focus instead on finding faster and more efficient ways to report and unpublish the poor-quality content.
Relache that would be the perfect solution but what happens in the mean time, we just allow them to go through? Maybe what I am suggesting could bridge the gap until a more effective solution comes along.
As I stated previously, I think what you are suggesting would waste the time and resources of the site. What you are suggesting would overly-burden both admin and the volunteers in the realm of their daily task load. Time and efforts would be better spent just developing a simpler fix rather than inventing a more complex method "in the meantime."
I have an idea. First of all, it is a burden on the greet team to monitor all the new hubs being published by newbies, especially Hubs published within a few minutes of opening an account. My idea is actually a combination of what I just read in this thread. Let new hubs be held for "Hub Hopping Only" when an account is just opened within, say, 24 hours. Anyone, not only elite members, can Hub Hop. Then if any of these Hubs is flagged the entire account goes into a "hold status" and needs to be reviewed by moderators before becoming active.
So the idea is to remove the overwhelming burden from elites by letting anyone make a new account "held." Or maybe make it held upon two or three flags, just to avoid one person from tying up what might be a good newbie. Hey, you never know. Someone can flag by error. So two or three flags could solve that issue too.
Anyway, maybe we can build up on this and improve the idea further. What does everyone think about that?
I have less then a hundred words on my bio?
I should be put in detention?
This is obviously a topic important to Hubbers, since it comes up so often; and it obviously doesn't have a good, simple solution yet.
Here are some other possibilities to consider:
Instead of creating a "followers only" account, add a default note to (Hub) comment boxes to remind non-members that they don't have to join in order to post a comment;
Or, add a separate, labeled button for non-members to click in order to comment on a Hub. It would open the same box as the regular button, but the separate label would be a visual indication to non-members that they don't have to join in order to comment.
[Both of these suggestions would not apply to Hubs that are set for Hubber-only comments. Since I'm not an IT engineer, I don't know whether that's viable.]
All forum comments from accounts that are less than a week old (or a day? or three days?) could require a Captcha in order to be submitted. This would not prevent posting, but it would slow the posting down somewhat and (I hope) discourage some of the spammier posters. I do understand that a dedicated spammer would probably not be deterred by this.
A lot of the suggestions I have read seem to be great suggestions, but I thought I might add my 2 cents to it. How about if the newbie hubs go to a different feed first-one marked "new members" or "first timmers". They could sit there for a few days before being added to the regular feed for hub hopping. That would give everyone a chance to check out the newbies before they actually make it 'live'.
hollie that was so rude I love how naughty it is
I just love being rude....er....naughty! am so rude I just want to spank you!
Your hobbies and interests do cover a wide range.
That's the point of being soooo rude, can't stick to one thing......or is that being naughty?
I don't consider you rude. I don't know you well enough to tell whether you're naughty or not. You are obviously talented, maybe even multi-talented.
Can I be spanked........pretty please...........God I hope my girlfriend ins't reading this.............
Luis has a girlfriend....Luis has a girlfriend......Luis has a girlfriend....
Luis and a girl sitting in a tree....k-i-s-s-i-n-g!
Yes, there are many types of posts that are unwanted by other members of a forum due to any number of reasons; childishness, insulting, ignorance, lies, etc... but folks will post them anyways, despite having a bio or avatar. They click on a thread expecting to read something intelligent or valuable rather than having to read kindergarten limericks, for example.
I'm all for getting rid of spambots, but I'm not sure this would work for some people.
I didn't have an avitar for a month or two because I use a screenreader, and it takes me a long time to figure out how to do things when I join a new site. It's a lot different than just clicking around with a mouse.
Anyway, I only recently discovered how to set my avitar, and if I'd been asked for one during the sign-up process, I'd probarbly have gotten frustrated and given up on joining Hub Pages.
I know it sounds extreme, but using a text-to-speech programme and a keyboard rather than your eyes and a mouse is laborious and takes up more time.
Would this work?: Hub Pages draw up 3-5 avitars you could choose from when joining, and later on, you could upload your own. I know that would be easier for people using screenreaders, but I'm not sure if it would stop spammers.
I see someone's mentioned captias. If we do start using them, could we please include one of those options for blind people? The one where a voice calls out a string of numbers or words.
OR let's get ruder
Dear Team, when considering banning please be advised Cardisa was rude first, we are just trying to demonstrate to her what kind of impact that has on a spamming hubber. Thank you
Honestly, when I signed up I didn't have a photo up for awhile and before I actually got one of myself up, I put one of my puppy up for a couple of weeks while I checked the place out.
If having a photo was a requirement of signing up I probably would have aborted the sign up process, especially since I did this on a whim. I think HubPages knows that signing up is often done on the spur of the moment and if it is too restrictive then a lot of good writers will never even join.
I'm not too big on the idea of waiting to have the first hub approved either. Again, the appeal for me was to sign up and publish quickly, as "advertised."
I'm with Relache - I think HubPages can use other methods to remove poor content or spammers.
But honestly, speaking for myself, I don't worry too much about low quality accounts. When someone comes to one of my hubs via Google, my hub stands on its own for what it's worth.
Cardisa can you contact HubPages when a hub is totally against TOS and get them to do something faster than an ordinary Hubber can?
When we find a hub that is against the TOS, it is flagged and it goes to the moderators. As of right now this is the fastest way. However, once it is flagged I suggest that it remains unpublished until it is reviewed. Not the best solution but the only one at the moment.
Flagging a profile may actually lead to faster results than flagging a hub. Automatically suspending flagged hubs could be misused to intimidate competitors and others, it seems to me.
Flagged hubs are not automatically unpublished but the moderation team does see them faster and decide what to do from there on. Flagging a profile works the same as a hub, but from what we have seen some profiles are well written albeit short. Not until one reads a hub can one begin to get a better picture of the skills or writing abilities of the author, or if they appear to be spam, translations etc...
Good point. To flag a profile, I would only consider doing that if there were some pretty severe violations in hubs or other violations such as severe forum spam. I have seen accounts of forum spammers banned within 1 hour or so, which has led me to conclude that flagging a profile may be effective.
@2uesday, sorry I missed you post. What I do with pretty severe violations is to send a link to HP team and send a link to a staff member. We will have to figure a way to have a red alert so that those hubs will automatically be unpublished. There should also be weekend staff so that stuff can get done on weekends too.
Provided that the person raising the flag is experienced and of unquestionable integrity. And, if false "red alerts" are raised, such a member should face some type of consequences. No?
Totally agree WE. It has to be someone from staff to do it. There are staff members who are also active community members so we could alert one of them and have them do something ASAP.
The hub in question was pretty severe. I am so worried that it's still there.
Not your fault, I was just shocked that hubs with what I thought of as blatant violations of terms of service remained published for so long.
I was wrong I guess about how serious the problem was as though the hubs are no longer published the hubber still has an account. Hopefully the hubber has got the message that full nudity pictures are not allowed on HubPages even though they managed to remain published for a while.
I'm now leaving it to someone else to sort, hopefully the staff will find it eventually.
The more that flag the quicker the response might be. Delaying the publishing of hubs by new hubbers until they have established there intent might be another idea.
I was responding to your specific query, where I had already flagged anything and everything possible.
I did not intend any criticism of you, sorry if it looked that way.
I think an avatar paints a thousand words. You are real and proud enough to show your face. I remember when i joined, I wasn't sure how things wotked. I wasn't sure how many words to put in a bio. I don't think bio should be very long. You will lose the reader.
I think when someone joins HP, there is a a learning curve. Uh, that learning curve is different for everyone. I think much depends on how much time you spend reading the,"How To's, the videos, and whether you write as a profession." Some things just come easier to some while some of us (Myself) is still trying to figure out how to get more view, traffic. It is pretty evident that you have to use Facebook, twitter. But the SEO stuff, writing or find more time to write quality hubs is different for everyone.
I know i must have changed my bio 8 times. I know it took me 2 months to feel comfortable. I know it took me 3 months to see understand things better...but I am not on HP everyday writing. It is a process.
I think Bios improve as the writer improves. This of course is just my own observations reading other hubs, commenting and writing.
I went for about three and a half years with the same, non-human-face, avatar. It wasn't because I'm ashamed to show who I am (or, in the case of my present photo, "sort of" who I am). It was because I don't like the idea of posting full photos on the Internet and (among other things) maybe having someone else turn my photo into their own profile or id (and maybe put a mustache on it - kidding about that particularly reasoning, mostly ). It was also to protect the privacy (to some extent) of my grown kids. Recently, I've been seriously thinking about getting rid of the photo I have and going back to a non-human one for a number of reasons. So I don't think people need to have a real photo (although a lot of sites require a real and professional looking head shot, which is why I don't write for them).
I do think it doesn't kill anyone to put SOME image up and put in some effort into writing a little something (more than three lines) about himself within the context of his online writing. Besides any number of other less-than-ideal messages having no picture and no profile text sends (about the individual but also the site, I think), there's the spam-facilitation issue.
I really don't think you could enforce your suggestion because people are gonna do what they're gonna do. In my profile photograph, I am dressed in my usual bathrobe and fuzzy slippers because I am retired and decided to do a holiday "theme" each month. But my photograph of me eating a valentine certainly did not work out. I have last year's bio, which is equivalent to a novel. But as a rule, I will not read a Hub that does not have a profile photograph, and I am quite disappointed to find that a lot of Hubs have no profiles at all. There are people who do not like writing about themselves, so if you can get 15 words out of them AND some kind of profile photograph--more power to you. Readers don't have much to go by when it comes to many Hubbers--starting with the pen names.
If these rules had been in place when my first article was published on hub pages I wouldn't be here today. This is in spite the fact that I had gone through a week waiting period on other platforms and been published before coming to hub pages.
It appears now though the search engine optimization those first few hubs never received was unnecessary anyway. They are ranked page 1 in their niche today without it. It appears quality beats optimization as long as there is something there for the "Google bots" to pick up.
If a writer comes to hub pages with enough followers and a little search engine optimization even what some consider junk can be of value to someone. They can be ranked high in search engines just by social sharing and back linking alone.
I wonder who of the "elite" can see potential in a writer? In reality this is what needs to be addressed using the system you are advocating. I am sure there are still sentences I am putting together backwards by "American English" standards. I am also sure there are still spelling and grammar errors in everything I write. These points are brought to my attention frequently.
English is my third language. Sentences are put together differently in Spanish and Cherokee. There are many people who publish here who are very like me. When you think in another language it is hard to put sentences together in coherent English. It doesn't mean what we have to say has no value.
How about a really annoying reminder to those who do not have their profiles filled out. It would drive the sockpuppets crazy while motivating people like me to do something constructive.
I don't think it is a practical suggestion. Many people writing here prefer to be 'faceless' or anonymous for whatever reasons best known to them. As long as their Hubs are not substandard or overly promotional, I don't think we should bother if they want to write up a Bio or not. It is true that Profiles with own photo and bio confirms the identity of the Hubber and can attract the trust of visitors. But I think we should leave it to the Hubber's choice.
Ive pointed out existing software that can auto-create profiles at Hubpages and start posting spun content for backlinks.
for now, it looks like, a profile image requirement would actually stop that software.
but, this suggestion has been raised a dozen times, its yet to amount to anything.
Thanks it was not the sort of page one expected to see on a site. Oddly the account is still there.
It appears to be HubPages policy that no account gets banned without prior warning.
WE - just the other day, a Hubber was.banned very quickly after a forum thread revealed many of his/her hubs were amazingly similar to info on a medical site. If there was a warning, it had to be a very quick one. Any insight on how it works? Not that I'm planning to do any ban-able hub ing.
Well, the Hubber in question had many hubs unpublished previously, and in each case there has been a warning issued. If any remaining hubs were plagiarized, I'd say there had been given due prior warning. But copyright violations is probably one of the areas where HubPages is least tolerant: If they see abuse on a wide scale, they may just conclude that it is unsafe for them to let the account continue.
There are forum posts from staff to the effect that no one is ever banned without prior warning. So that is the official policy. We could perhaps add to that: Except in cases where the account is set up solely or primarily for illegitimate purposes. This corresponds to that new accounts that are apparently set up solely to spam the forums are banned as soon as practicable, and so fast there could hardly have been any prior warning.
Thank you for the explanation Website Examiner. I was not aware of that. I think it would be wise for me to say no more on this as it is their choice and they set the rules.
Sorry, I can't agree with you. I don't think there should be any limits on how long/short a profile should be or insistance on a photo or avatar. It is a big, insane world out there and hubpages is just a microcosm of the world. I am for the least bit of regulation when it comes to writing. First Amendment rights and all that. I know you are trying to stop the spammers and spinners, but the con artists and scam people are out there in the world and we have to beware, so I say beware on hubpages also.
I agree Freedom of Speech is important, but I can also see merits in setting standards for being on a site. Those are two different things.
I have been trying to think of a more reasonably solution but they are all too drastic...lol
I guess sooner or later HP will figure out something. At least they have to figure something out if they want to remain in good standing with Google.
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