adult children to grow. They are the type of parents who subconsciously sabotage their children's career chances and advancements. They seem to be deathly afraid to allow their children to establish their own independent lives. They want their adult children to be NEAR them all the time. These parents are psychotically claustrophobic and need psychological help or a slap in the face, YOUR CHOICE. What do you think of such "parents"?
Got any examples to go along with your hypothesis?
There are so MANY examples. A person who wants to go to London for a job opportunity but parents want him/her in the vicinity so to speak. This person, who is weak emotionally, caves in to parental pressure because such parents are too psychotically selfish to let their adult child live his/her independent life.
Or parents who have no lives of their own are afraid to have their children leave the nest because they have to face EACH OTHER and it is not pretty! So they exert toxic sabotage to hamper their children's chances to advance to be the people THE LATTER were meant to be. Sad case scenarios.
There are adult children who are psychological weaklings who let parents LIVE their lives instead of standing up to , distancing, and disowning such poisonous parents. That is why children should not be totally emotionally dependent upon their parents, they should have friends and outside interests. There are so parents who are totally psychologically and emotionally incestuous towards their children.
There is a book relating to this-when parents love their children WAY TOO MUCH. I know people like this-coworkers, a former supervisor, and adult children who STILL live with their parents. When children are adults. they SHOULD leave home if they are mature. Children who live with their parents as adults are emotionally immature and will NEVER amount to much in life.
I actually don't think you are seeking to approach this discussion from a 'psychology' perspective. I'd actually be more interested in exactly why you are so blatantly harmed by your perceptions of other people's lives.
Do you have children of your own? I don't, and it has taken me until my fifties to understand how parents feel about their children.
I mean, I always understood that parents loved their children, but I didn't understand the depth of feeling that parents (especially mothers) hold for their children. I only became aware of it as my friends' children reached adulthood and "left the nest", and I was astonished to find that my friends were as heartbroken as if a lover had dumped them. Perhaps more so!
Some of those friends recognise that it's time for their grown-up children to leave and forge a life of their own. Even though they're heartbroken and full of anxiety at the thought of their child going unprotected into the world, they swallow their fear and sadness, and wish them well. But not everyone is strong enough to put on a brave face, and they're the ones who unashamedly try to influence their kids to stay, or force them into pathways they see as "safe".
A mother once told me that from the moment her children were born, she never had another day without fear in her entire life. Fear that some accident might befall them, fear that they might be unhappy, fear that they might fail. It's not psychotic, it's simply a measure of how much they care for their children. They want to protect their kids from making mistakes. Their views may be misguided but they come from the best of intentions.
There is time when ENOUGH is ENOUGH. Many children today are infantilized. When a child is 18-21, he/she, unless he/she is mentally, physically, and/or psychologically challenged, is an adult, if raised with intelligence and maturity. It is appalling how many of these young adults STILL depend upon their parents for many things, especially in more affluent socioeconomic environments.
When a person is 18-21, the parent should have recognized that he/she is an adult and is capable of making decisions. He/she does not need a parent in his/her life. Parents HAVE TO LET GO and realize that their adult children DO NOT NEED THEM AS MUCH. Children must leave the parental home and establish THEIR lives. I have see infantilized adults, adult children who are TOO DEPENDENT upon their parents. That is totally abnormal.
Paremts have to realize that they are not parents forever. Their children are going to be adults with lives of their own. The role must change from parent to friend. Parents who insist on relating to their adult children as parents will lost such children. The average independent adult child resent being treated as a child. He/she will draw away from the parents, some will cut off all contact with their parents. On the other hand, parents who treat their adult children as adults oftentimes have the closest relationship which is based upon mutual respect. If a parent cannot let go and realize that their children are adults, they need deep psychological help. Parenting is temporary, not permanent.
So what you're saying to parents is:
"How dare you love your child more than life itself! How dare you be heartbroken if they want to leave! Pull yourself together and stop being so soppy! Their emotional needs are far, far more important than yours, your life is over so just suck it up!"
Don't you think parents deserve some understanding and sympathy? After all they have sacrificed several years of their lives - and an enormous amount of money - to raise that child. Is the child really entitled to say, "F*** off, I don't need you any more."?
I also had parents I saw as over-protective. Their hovering annoyed me enormously at the time - it's only in later life that I've begun to understand the motivation behind it, and I must say it was a shock to me. I agree with you that children should be allowed and encouraged to strike out on their own once they're adults, and that parents shouldn't hold them back - but let's not paint the parents as ogres, let's acknowledge that they are going through a normal emotional response. Maybe they should get help to overcome it, but that doesn't make them mentally ill.
One is supposed to love his/her child and give him/her the best opportunities possible. I am a multillion percent for that. However, there is a time when parents must realize that their children are adults and to let them go. So many young people do not have life and street savvy because they were so overprotected by their parents.
It is not unusual for parents to go on interviews with their grown children. Most employers find THAT to be QUITE UNREASONABLE. It seems that so many young people are extremely loathe to venture into the world and postpone adulthood thus prolonging adolescence as long as possible.
It's not who you are underneath, it's what you do that defines you, so if you gonna try to take away your child's freedom then you are a selfish monster, no matter what you do there's no going around from that, it is what it is, I've seen parents trying to stop their children to find some one of their own, parents have each other and will stop their child to find some one of their own and start a family, thats cruelty theres no going around that, It's not who you are underneath, it's what you do that defines you...
Hi GM. Interesting discussion. I had parents like that. They would make me feel guilty as hell when I left the farm to go to college and start my own life. My mother, to get me back actually froze my dog to death and I found him in the freezer. (she has a special place in hell) These types of parents have deep psychologial problems that they never got help for. I believe that they don't want their children to be better then themselves and want to keep a thumb on everything they do. Controlling. Very controlling. They don't want their children to have their own minds or life and blame everything on the children when they do finally escape the hell they are living in. It's a type of emotional abuse that starts in childhood and for some this emotional abuse lasts well into adulthood.
I don't know why these other people on this thread are being so rude and snarkey - maybe there is something they are hiding so I hope you aren't taking their remarks seriously.
Of course, THEY ARE IN DEEP, DEEP, DEEP DENIAL and HIDING SOMETHING from their lives. If they did not have issues themselves, they would not be in the attack mode. There are many people who experienced problems with their parents. In my opinion, only a small percentage of people are intelligent, mature, and psychologically/emotionally suitable to be parents. Most parents whether they admit it or not, have deep psychological issues such as playing upmanship and gamemanship with their children. They believe that parenting is about control and I am better and more than you because you are a child. There should be licensing for parenting. Most people who have children have no business being parents.
Gm you know there is no DEEP DEEP anything involved with why I replied the way I did. I don't know if there are rules around here against re-posting the same topics repeatedly, I'll look into it later.
Melissa, if you do not like the topic, DON'T stop by. Free country. I do not post the same topics repeatedly. This forum is for people who can discuss things intelligently and logically. If you have nothing to say, say NOTHING at all and begone!
you go GM! Some people don't know what discussion means.
Sarra, SOME people do not like the topic at hand, they may have some deep seated, subconscious issues. They may be in the situation and/or similar and do not wish to confront the issues at hand. So they use their displacement mechanisms and act as a troll, attacking either the OP or other people.
It is frankly NONE OF THEIR #$%^&@ business what the original poster posts. If the person does not like the subject, HE/SHE DO NOT HAVE TO STOP BY, pure and simple. Some people are just troublemakers and/or love to harass others.
Very true GM. Maybe the trolls who respond to certain forums are having the same personal issue themselves but don't want to admit it. Looking through rose colored glasses doesn't work in the real world.
I like this forum you posted as I am in the process of co-authoring a self help book with the help of a PhD on the effects of emotional abuse as a child and how it follows you through adulthood. There are a lot of questions about this out there especially how the childhood emotional abuse affects your physical and emotional health. I need to post a poll somewhere and see how many are affected by emotional abuse.
If more people got mental health help and were on antidepressants it would be a happier world. Mental health should not be a taboo in this day and age.
Ouch, you have elucidated the point intelligently and succinctly. When a topic is presented and some people become quite phobic and extreme in their visceral response, there has to be some DEEP, DEEP, DEEP issues that they have either consciously or subconsciously. If not, why such an EXTREME reaction? There are posts I disagree with and I do not go off on a tangent. People should really act THEIR AGE and logically assess the situation at hand.
Exactly. Either pic a forum you want to have a discussion in, move on or create your own. It's such a simple thing but simplicity becomes a hard thing to face in some people. It's ok that you grew up in a sucky home or you have an evil birth mother like mine. You do learn to deal with things and you learn how you don't want your children to grow up. You become a stronger person in your own right. But you have to want better in order for that to happen. I know it's harder done than said but changing the pattern can happen.
Maybe you should stop calling me a troll and assessing my 'personal issues' and actually ask why I responded the way I did. That would be the intelligent route to take I believe.
well, tell us why you are taking such a stand on this forum? Instead of answering the original question you attacked it. There are many people (young adults) who are being held back by parents who after raising these children feel they deserve to be taken care of by the adult children. Do you really think that is fair for the adult children? Taking care of your elderly parents is one thing, but, attempting to force your children to pay you monetarily for raising you for 18 years is wrong, so isn't freezing your dog to death because you decided to 'fly the coop'. There are millions of mentally ill parents who are creating mentally ill children.
So, here is your chance in a free country to explain your snarky answers in a non snarky psychological and scientific way.....and so it begins
Some people are loathe to face the truth. They prefer to live in a fantasy world..................Either they FACE their respective situation whatever it may be or the SITUATION will FACE them and they would have to either deal with it or be deluged in it. Their call, not ours. We know the world and HAVE ENCOUNTERED such people. Others have not. There are STILL some folks around who STAUNCHLY BELIEVE that parents DO NO WRONG. How unreal is THAT? Totally utopian logic to say the least. I was going to say another word but in doing so I may be banned so I shall be POLITE.......(venomous snarly smile).
Hey GM You need to post on my "no snarkey" thread. You can feel the stress just leaving your fingers.....it's a good thing. Keep positive juices flowing
Great soo before I had a chance to reply you continued to discuss things off topic and made the posting space all squashed. So I will just condense my thoughts, as I'm sure they won't be absorbed properly via your permanent perception of me being villainous. I was just going to ask for clarification of your parents "freezing your dog to death"...did they get arrested for that as they should have?
Anyway my comments are not directed at your situation but at GM's oppressive posting style and generalizations of people that are not inline with a civil, productive, objective discussion. I don't know why she feels the need to 'yell' in her replies with the CAPS lock and reassert the same positions repeatedly. I find it all very strange and more concerning than the 'poisonous' parents she describes. It is human nature to want to be close to your children and today's mentality of getting as far away from them as possible is an anthropogenic experiment that is unnatural. The activities of your parents that you are describing, Sarra, is criminal and is obviously not what I would consider the norm or defend.
Melissa, it is human nature to be close to your parents. However, children begin separating from their parents in childhood towards becoming an independent and autonomous person. It is natural in human development to break away from your parents and establish relationships with same age peers and associates. That is called maturity.
Children who do not wish to break away from their parents are viewed as abnormal in society. Children who do not break away from their parents and establish independent lives are not psychologically mature and are clingy. Such children find it difficult to adjust to situations where they have to be away from home for a long period of time being it school, camp, and/or other setttings.
I have read a study that stated that children who are placed in daycare and prenursery schools develop quicker regarding interacting with other chidren, are more independent, and do not have the separation anxiety than chidren who are not placed in such educational settings. Parents who delay placing their children in daycare and prenursery schools have children who have severe separation anxiety once they enter kindergarten and/or first grade. Children have to learn to separate from their parents early in order to be well-adjusted.
It is nothing sadder than a child who is overly dependent and refuse to break away from his/her parents. Such chidren are ridiculed by teachers and other students alike. These children want to be taken care off emotionally and psychologically and they are in for a RUDE AWAKENING when such is not so. According to Dr. Wayne W. Dyer, a psychologist, parent, and motivational speaker, the purpose of parenting is to make your children no longer needing you when the time comes. In other words Melissa, parenthood is NOT a lifetime occupation although many people, both parents and children, unfortunately and sadly view it that way.
Aduts are independent and autonomous. Any adult who cannot break away from his/her parents is by all definition a child and will be treated and considered as an aberration by society. Even some parents do not appreciate nor respect their children because they refuse to grow up, mature, and break away from them. Most intelligent parents, once their children become adults, view their children as friends rather than their children.
I am witness to such conversations by my neighbors, relatives, friends, and associates regarding parents who are very close to their children and children who are so close to their parents that they do not have their own individual lives. I also worked with and supervised people who have deep seated issues regarding parent-child separation.
You would not want to supervise an adult who is very emotionally attached to his/her parents. Such adults cannot do anything for themselves and they have to be closely supervised and watched. Sometimes they need a proverbial slap in the face to make them grow up. I suggest that you purchase the movie FAILURE TO LAUNCH. Children who are attached to their parents will find it extremely difficult in life regarding to jobs, relationships, and in basic street/survival savvy. Smart children learn to separate from their parents early in order to eventually be independent.
There is nothing worse than a parents' boy/girl who is unable to establish his/her own parameters in life. It is sad to be 40-50 years old and still attached to mommy/daddy and living with them, living under THEIR SHADOW. In order to fully develop as an adult, parents have to let their children go and children must separate, pure and simple. Time to cut that umbilical cord> If your parents will not cut it, society has a way of doing so. When society does it, it will not be pretty whatsoever.
I've made no arguments against independence which is obviously natural and starts to take place in children around the age of 2, but against what appears to be the mentality of permanently severing the parental bond or criticizing people who aren't happy with their children moving to other counties as per your example of a 'psychotic' mentality.
Humans are all obviously inherently selfish hence the desire of the children to leave in the first place. I'm not so concerned with appeal to the majority arguments as in my experience many aspects of what is accepted by the majority are things that are very negative. There are many things that you write about that most people would perceive as an 'aberration'.
I do not consider what you describe to be negative but it could be so amidst our unfortunate current society that has evolved to be the way it is. In other countries and cultures things work in different ways. What remains unchanged among all humans is the parental bond. But I think unless you forgot that you already know my stance on this.
I don't know if you've seen that movie or not but it is a low-quality comedy.
If a parents becomes discombobulated at the prospect of their adult children moving away whether it is another street, town and/or country to establish a career and his/her own life, it can be interpreted as psychotic to say the least. Parents do not own their children, especially when they become adults. Adult children are free to move away from their parents, it does not mean they are severing the parental bond. Get real Melissa. Adults move on and progress if a parent does not like and/or become threatened by it, so be it.
Sometimes parents become so intrusive and toxic, that it is BEST to cut/sever the parental bond in order for an adult child to progress and grow. Melissa, there are toxic parents out there, either overtly and/or covertly. Sometimes the best family is not blood family but those who love and support you and your dreams. Blood family can be the worst, most insidious, and most sabotaging.
I read and know people in the circumstances I have mentioned. I am also a deep and analytical thinker who refuses to go by conventions and atavistic and antiquated ideas. I am what can be categorized as an unconventional, freethinking feminist. I question things and discard ideas and mores that do not make sense. I can see @#$%^&@ and other nonsensical tripe miles away. I am quite outspoken regarding my observations and opinions.
In my estimation, people prefer to remain in their particular toxic morass than to access and take responsibility for their lives. I will HAVE NONE of that. I live in the present, not the past. Either one evolves and be ahead of the tmes or one lives in the past, falls behind, stagnate and die. YOUR call! I was always forward thinking, never followed the crowd and family consensus even as a child! I was MY OWN person and ALWAYS will be ! I take no prisoners. That is my style!
"Adult children are free to move away from their parents"
Then there is no problem
(as long as they don't pull a Fatal Attraction)
"I will HAVE NONE of that."
What do you plan to do about it?
Melissa, not all people have the instinct of being loving parents. Actually, a little more than 50% of parents are natural nurturers. There is so much child abuse going on in this world right under everyones noses and no one does anything about it. When I was growing up you didn't talk about child abuse and it was ignored. Only when I was in my 30's did I get reaquainted with one of my uncles and he sobed in my arms for the longest time saying how sorry he was for not doing anything for us kids. It wasn't his fault, it was taboo. There are different types of child abuse and I would have to say that other than sexual, emotional abuse is the worst as those scars never go away. As far as my poor dog goes, yes I attempted to have my parents arrested, here's the kicker, my dad was a cop so how do you think that ended up. Eventually, I took them to court and had a restraining order put on them and haven't seen them since I was 19.
I can't answer any questions about GM. Everyone here expresses themselves in different ways. Some 'yell' and some don't and some get downright nasty ! (hense see my forum of no snarkeys allowed) . Maybe she was very frustrated as we all get from time to time and your remarks set her off. You'll have to ask her. I know that eventually everyone ends up agreeing to disagree as we are all humans and have our own opinions. Let's all just try to get along as we are all here for one goal - to write our hearts out.
Thank you Sarra for your input. It is always greatly appreciated. Long time ago, what is now considered to be abuse was considered to be a normal part of parenting. How many children were raised in the 1950s, 1960s, and 1970s with spankings and other forms of discipline that can be aptly described as punitive and oppressive. Parents also failed to consider that their children were autonomous human beings with minds of their own. Many parents in the 1950s, 1960s, and 1970s believed that their word was law and it was the duty of children to obey them. Parent-child relationships during those eras were clearly unequal with the parents assuming a very dominant role.
You are also correct in stating that only a few percentage of parents are actually nurturing and loving towards their children. There are many people who DID NOT want children but had children because of parental, societal, and religious pressure. People who elected to be childfree were viewed as selfish, aberrant, and irresponsible. So people had children in order to be accepted within the parameters of society and their families. Many parents were/are unwilling parents and parents by default. Only a small percentage of people want to be parents. There was a survery done by the late Anne Landers, advise columnist 40 years ago. The question was asked if you had to do it over, would you be a parent, over 50% answered in the negative. Many people are parents much to their and their children's regret.
That is awful and I certainly wasn't defending psychotic anti-social personality disorder-fueled crimes. I assumed the subject was a little more light-hearted, about parents that 'guilt' kids into not leaving and want to do things for them. However if they are true adults I don't see why that should be such an issue for them or be of any developmental significance. Probably some parents enjoy caring for their children as it reminds them of younger times, but that is my speculation.
Melissa, not everyone is cut out to be a parent. As GM stated, in the 50, 60 and 70's it was almost mandatory if you were married to have kids. A lot of these children were never wanted in the first place which makes for bad parenting. It used to be a societal thing to have children, now women have a voice and can say "oh hell no I don't want any children." Until you you are ready to have children you shouldn't have any. There are too many children in this world who are in foster care and orphanages because they have been abused or not wanted. Is that fair for the children? NO! But yet, the children are the ones who suffer and they had nothing to do with being born in the first place.
Now, I have one son who is 24 and I'm very proud of him, he's got a career and is doing fine on his own. I lost a daughter and I dream of her everyday. I adopted a son when he was 6 from the streets of AZ and turned his life completely around while his mother continued to smoke meth and screw herself up. I even tried to get her cleaned up. She ended up having 5 kids - it was sad.
Of course it is a free country, well, at least among the specific rules on this site. Either way, you're not going to tell me to "be gone" because I'm free to post on my own free will. I think your original post shows little regard for psychology and science. We of course have had several 'discussions' in the past in which you have been generalizing people's situations massively as you are doing so here. In the name of 'intelligence', I speak out against this poor logic, and your seemingly lack of ability to take away what has been proven from your past discussions. That does not make me a "troll". So yes, it is my business what you've posted because this is a public forum which I can participate in, regardless of whether or not you don't like what I say.
I know I have definitely responded to a post of your on the same topic of children living at home/'enabling evil parents.
We can agree to disagree. However, I adamantly stand by that by the time a person reaches the period from 18-21 or 22, he/she is AN ADULT, not a child. It is time for him/her to establish his/her independence and launch. He/she has to learn the rudiments of independent living such as getting a job, establishing a career, and setting up an apartment. In other words, establishing his/her own life away from his/her parents.
The earlier independence is established the better it is for the parent and child. Parents who are unable to let their chilidren go will suffer for it eventually. Yes, these parents are enabling their children, rather they are infantilizing their children. Such children are a bane to employers and other people they encounter. It is nothing sadder than an adult in his/her late 20s and beyond who still has a psychological and emotional umbilical cord and is fearful of the world because parents refuse to get them grow up. If something happens to their parents, such children are lost because others ARE NOT going to tolerate them like their parents did or if they find someone like their parents, it is likely to be a very exploitative relationship.
Parents who refuse to get their children go are doing their children a disservice. Although such children are chronological adults, psychologically and emotionally, such adults are children. They do not have the maturity to face and handle the rudiments of life and survival. They expect to be TAKEN CARE off. When they have to become independent, many become psychologically and emotionally discombobulated.
Either a parent teaches his/her child to become independent or SOCIETY will teach them. Many such children become unemployed and/or homeless because their parents refused to let them grow up and experience life. While some learn to be independent and self-sufficient when faced with unemployment and homelessness, others have no street wherewithal and fall through the cracks....
I have done a lot of reading and observing on this subject. I know such sad people who are fearful and dependent because of suffocating parents. They are in a morass, cannot do even the simplest things for themselves. They have the emotional maturity of a child. They have no street savvy whatsoever. They can be and are exploited and/or taken advantage of those who are more world/street savvy. They are unable to take risks and/or hold on to employment long. If it were not for their parents, they would be in a horribly dire situation including homelessness.
I think some of this is cultural. I've noticed it more in the Deep South and in Hispanic families, and some religious families, than in other families. Some just seem to value keeping the family unit together, growing large extended families.
I think some of it might have to do with education, some families are more frightened of what's out there in the world, but other than that - I vote for different cultural norms.
I agree with Howard, a lot of it is cultural. Americans don't have that deep family tie that hispanics or other cultures do.
Yes, people should take a test before having children then that would cut down on the children who have been abandoned by parents and the foster care system. I raised my son and now he's all grown up and on his own but that doesn't mean I love him any less. He is a person and needs to grow and see what the world is really like. Shit, it's not easy out there. My foster son is more 'clingy' to me but that's because he had it really bad when he was younger. He is on his own now and is doing wonderful. I encourage independance and flying the nest. Maybe that's why I have 5 handicapped dogs to take care of since my children are gone. lol
Children when grown up must be given their own freedom to do what ever is best for them. They may have many wishes in life and if parents still try to control them they can never suceed in their lives.
i actualy.m.a victim of this. was just wonderimg if m.the only.one or others feel.the same :'(
My husband's parents do this, they try to convince him to leave his family and move back home with them, and they try to create problems in our relationship just so he will come back home, they have even gave him a truck to come back home one time. He is 31 and they tell him that he shouldn't have to pay bills and take care of his kid and if he lives with them he wouldn't have to. They will pay all his bills and clean his room for him and even cut up his food for him. It's rediculous. And I don't want to have to make him choose between his parents and his own family, but he has spent 7 years going back and fourth and it's starting to effect our children
I know people who have "such parents". A former supervisor, a former coworker who wanted to be a model/actress but her policeman father wanted her to be a civil servant, and an overprotective mother of a 30 year old man. Not ME AT ALL, I would NOT HAVE tolerated such! My parents WERE NEVER like that-I did WHAT I WANTED and AS I PLEASE!
If I did not want to do something even as a child, I did not do it. However, I knew a classmate whose mother designed her life. In fact, her mother was totally annoying to the multillionth degree. I have encountered lost souls, at work and in social gatherings, who have "parents" such as those. I told them to disown their parents. Janesix, do YOU have such "parents"?
gm, I tend to agree with some of what you post, but I am wondering, are you a parent? It's one thing to discuss topics that one doesn't have direct experience with, but somewhat more difficult if you've never experienced the topic of discussion yourself.
Some adults become parents and have a harder time cutting the apron strings. I don't know if I would say that they have deep issues any more so than it could be their own form of control and wanting to feel valued and loved after giving many years of their lives to raising their children. For sure, in some cases, the adult parents do have issues, but it's not because they're a parent, it's something within their psychological make-up. Their adult children need to set boundaries and be very clear that they are capable of living their own lives.
Parents need to let go and let their adult children live their lives. I'm in complete agreement. But I wouldn't go as far to say that adult children who live with their parents are infantilized or immature or that their parents have deep issues.
I think parenting is misunderstood by many. It's not about control. It's about nurturing and training, instructing children how to be independent, providing for them, helping them to be who they are, not who the parents think they should be. The word parent comes from the root word, pare, which means to "prepare, make ready, furnish, provide". I always think of paring, making something ready, like paring an apple, etc.
Parenting is a role that changes as children become adults.
Yes, I do agree with you. You have made some excellent points in this discussion. Parents have to learn to let go of their children and realize that they are becoming increasingly independent from adolescence. Children want to be independent and establish their own parameters. However, there are parents who are loathe to let their children be independent and self-functioning human beings.
I had an ex-co-worker who totally infantilize her son. She did everything for him. A good friend of hers, a local politican, admonished her on this. He told her to LET GO of her son and let him grow up. This admonishment fell upon her dead ears so to speak. She continued infantilizing him. In college, he floundered and was kicked out. However, he subsequently returned to college which SHE paid for. He floundered on jobs, being fired FOUR times. The woman was totally aghast, stating that her son was IMMATURE. Of course, he is immature, she infantilized and controlled him.
Parents have to LEARN to let go. There are parents who see their children as infants and they are 40 years of age. This is madness. There is a phenomena of infantilization of our children. There are children of college and young adult age who simply cannot function independently. They are mollycoddled and fearful of the outside world. It is a parent's job to TEACH and LAUNCH. There are parents who raise their children tough from the start. Those are the children who thrive in the real world.
My maternal aunt let her son and daughter go at 14. She believed that children should be autonomous as early as possible. She did not believe in babying her children, she raised them TOUGH. When her children were 14, they were nearly self-sufficient. At 17 years of age, both children were highly independent and self-supporting. THAT is the way children should be raised. She is an extremely nonintrusive parent. She let her children own their individual lives. She NEVER told them what to do.
That is so disturbing. I think you are right when you say that it's a form of emotional abuse that started in their childhood.
I have had to deal with a lot of pretty severely mentally ill people in my life and to me most of these ailments come down to a refusal of these people to grow up themselves. Of course there's more to it but this is at its core - this "selfishness" you speak of is a childish response to a common issue. Children do not like letting their familiars leave - they might cry in the attempt to get them to stay. The mentally ill adult probably won't cry but they will try to manipulate the situation in other ways.
Some of these parents just love their children very much and don't know how to deal with such an enormous presence suddenly being gone. But like you said before some people are just never meant to be parents, these are the worst! They try to keep their children around for a whole host of reasons - none of them based on love. Usually these people literally want their children to take care of them now - like I raised you, now you owe me. They get financial stability as well as someone around the house to do anything they need.
I've even seen one woman warp religion in such a way that she basically taught all her sons not to take any responsibility for themselves or do anything for themselves because that's the job of their future wives. Not surprisingly one knocked up his g/f as a teenager and now has a kid he doesn't want and pays no attention to, a child he expects any new g/f to take 100% responsibility for immediately even though she's now almost a tween herself! It's tragic and maddening. This woman raised some total looser sons, and is now working hard to screw up that grandchild royally.
Basically it comes down to this - severely mentally ill people almost always raise children who are also mentally ill. I've seen a lot of people blame genetics but I don't believe this for a second. Genetics might be the gun but how they're raised is the trigger! And once that person is grown can you really blame them for being "weak" and conditioned?! Not really - they don't know any better! And they won't know better until they get help, which most won't because they don't see this as being a problem in their lives.
With all that in mind it is also pertinent to note an adult child living with their parent isn't always a huge red flag. In the town I am living in an increasing amount of adult children are still at home because their parents sent them off to college and now they're toting around useless degrees, working minimum wage jobs, and being crippled by student loans. This is a side effect of the economy and as someone stated earlier some communities keep their children at home naturally - like in India where unmarried women generally still live with mom and dad until marriage or death. This doesn't HAVE to be a bad thing.
Great point, Theo, there seems to be symbiotically vampiric relationship between some parents and children.
My mother actually gave me, my brother and my sister (may she rest in peace) a bill on our 18th birthday of what we owed her for raising us. We all just looked at her and left. Talk about being glad to leave the nest. I was haunted so badly though that I had to take out a restraining order against my birth mother. There's a special place in Hell for her - she has her own room waiting.
Indeed. I think it is worth remembering that people who do a bad job of parenting are generally not doing this "to" the child on purpose. They aren't coping, the aren't equipped, are complete in themselves or they maybe even are not good people. It is there struggle with their own problems that affects the kids as collateral damage.
Adult children get to decide how much their parents influence them beyond legal and basic ethical obligations.
Thank you for posting this discussion. I 100% agree with every thing that was said about how some parents refuse to let their kids become adults.
I did not leave until I was 27 years old. It was a struggle when I finally left. I had to get police escorted out of my mom's house. My mom even tried to block the door and said no you can not leave. And while I was getting my stuff I kept telling my mom she had to let go and that she just had to except that she raised me well enough to let me go and live on my own. And that my leaving did not mean I did not love her.
At that time my brother refused to grow up and since I was the only one in the family with a job I was forced to give my pay check to my unemployed brother and his live in girlfriend who was unemployed too. The family owned an apartment building and my brother was living rent free in one of the apartments. And my brother's girlfriend was a free loading narc who took advantage of the whole family even though I tried to make friends with her and she was not willing to make friends. My dumb brother married her and latter found out she was gay. After I left they sold the building and moved into a two bedroom apartment with my mom and autistic sister. That is when my brother started to grow up and finally got a job and divorced his wife since she started to bring her woman "friends" over to the apartment while he was at work.
Sadly after he divorced her he married another low level narc and has kids who are suffering from my brother and his current wife's emotional abuse.
I want so badly to help those sweet kids so they can become great full adults and I do not know how. Any time I point out things my brother and his wife get so mad and make it seem like I am attacking them. Thanfully my brother's kids adore me.
And as bad as my narc family is I still visit them once a year and practice no contact up until its time for me to visit.
This time around when I visit my family I am not going to stay at their homes any more since its always a stress filled enviroment.
And my mom's brother and sisters took full advantage of the fact that my mom could not support herself even though she was now getting survivor's checks. My narc dad died from drinking himself to death. My dad had all of us under his thumb. He refused to let me go to collage early, I was 17 years old at the time. And even though I would be home on the weekends. And my dad did not allow me to have any friends. Even though they lived on the same block and two lived next door. Anytime my dad found out that I was in the back yard talking to my friend he would ask me what did we talk about and give me mean hateful looks.
Once when I was 8 years old I gave a kid at school my phone number and the kid called and asked to speak to me. We talked and were talking as kids do. I was really enjoying having fun chatting until I started to talk about my autistic sister. I had no idea it was such a taboo subject and learned while I was still on the phone that my dad was listening to us on another phone. Once I started talking about my sister my dad on the other phone told me to hang up the phone. I was so scared after that and thought my dad was going to come into the room and hit me, thankfully he did not. Sadly my friend never called me again.
I am a 100% independent adult living on my own. I have a great job and an active social life. Sadly I've been emotionally abused for 15 years at my job by narc female co-workers. And when I left that job site that narc supervisor had me stalked. I went to therapist to see if I was crazy. And was told I am not crazy, praise the lord.
Three months ago I left my another former narc supervisor and moved to a new job site where I know there is no narc abuse since my boss is a lady I worked with in the past for 3 years and one of my former narc supervisors she worked with quit. And this time around I took measures so she would not beable to stalk me.
By reading books titled Hidding From The Internet and How To Be Invisable.
I am currentlly getting help from the narc abuse I suffered nearly my whole life its struggle at times but I am getting stronger.
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