Theory of Devolution
- sandra rinckposted 15 years ago
0I hope we learn to draw the boundaries of science where we figure out what is useful and what is not. I was reading about the nuclear holocaust scenario and for all the advances in science we have created this one frankenstein monster(nuclear weapons) which if we don't learn to control can bring an end to not only our existence but of our entire planet (except for a few cockroaches). Now that is a scary thought.
That's not even the half of it countrywomen. There is an evolutionist organization called CERN that plans on replicating the big bang in underground tunnels between France and Switzerland. Austria is the first country that has decided to opt out of the CERN program. How dare these mad men jeopardize 7 billion people and the existence of our entire planet with their folly. What gives them the right.
What does happen then? Bearing in mind this is a science forum. I think you want the irrational beliefs forum. One up in case you missed it.
I am not so sure how relevant time is considering in space there isn't anything to really gauge it by. That would be why it's called space-time... time is only relative to us.
So without time ordered in the Universe, how can the laws of thermodynamics apply? Entropy brings order out of chaos so if time is not actually increasing then neither is its randomness, right?
right? scratching my head.
My bad. lol
So it is so, that it was ordered and that the more complex things become the more unstable they become? Right?I thought I made up the word devolution.
I am not using evolution out of context. Evolution adapts, it is not perfect. I am suggesting however that the process of evolution will result in devolution. As it become so "advanced" "complex" that it becomes broken down into its simplest form, which would be a perfect state and no further breakdown is possible.
I could view this as a state where nothing moves, as the laws of thermodynamics would have it but in my thoughts at the moment, it could also be that all elements, things, or whatever there is become perfected in their own state and all things coalesce, in which everything will be complete in own space, much like an atom or quart take up space between space between space etc...
My thoughts on randomness and entropy or thermodynamics are that it seems random because we don't know the formula or how many variables there could actually be (so yes I see this as fact) in my mind it seems that no two things could randomly unite and make something or destroy something...
More that if it can, then it will but if it cannot then it will not. I understand in a chaotic state things become excited but they always settle back into their natural state when added elements such as heat are removed.
I see the excitable state as a random action of the hydrogen bonds doing their thing but because they always come together the same way, I don't view it as random. The only part random about it is that, if you could count and label the molecules, then how the order is random, but there is still order.
Does this explain what I am trying to say better?
It seems Mark agrees with you and BDazzler, Sandra. Hence the question, should it be called Darwin's Theory of Evolution or Rink's Theory of Devolution.
No it's not. Let's put that behind us before it gets out of control again.
Please. Mike thinks it is
And I was just winding him up.The Greek Orthodox church stole lots of money from taxpayers....
The Theory of Thievolution
Again for the fifth, sixth time. I use the word perfect meaning that "everything" "absolutely" "everything" that there ever was in the beginning of however it all started was "perfect", if it was not perfect, then we might not be here at all, no Universe, no stars, no planets, no life.
To think otherwise would be making an assumption.
And still when something seems gone, were did it go? It's still around in someway, shape or form. If that isn't perfect then you don't know what perfect is.
Your insistence that this is a moral discussion is pretty redundant and you stuck on just a few things that you just can't get past.
What does anything I said have to do with morals in this thread?
I think Sandy meant DEVILution
"Please step away from the box."
Hey I think you are on to something Sandra.
You know, Adam lived for nine hundred and thirty years, Seth lived after he begot Enos, eight hundred and seven years, Cainan lived after he begot Malaleel eight hundred and forty years, Malaleel lived after he begot Jared eight hundred and thirty years, Jared lived after he begot Henoch eight hundred years and so on. We think we are doing something big cause we are living longer than 40 years now. Wippdy do.
The numerous animals and plants that have gone extinct also shows implications of a theory of devolution. And so does our environment.
I think you should apply for a government grant to do research on this theory of devolution Sandra. Start big by asking for 50 mill, then work down from there.
Maybe eventually the theory of devolution will be forced to be taught in our schools too.
Wouldn't that be something; Rinck's Theory of Devolution versus Darwin's Theory of Evolution. I like it.
MikeLOL. Can't stop laughing! hahahhahahah
If I did that, they would probably only grant me money to shut up.)Well that's how they get the grants. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. The loudest usually gets all the money. I mean look at how they are handing it out these days. Yeah, yeah I forgot the extinction of the dinosaurs too, to add to your theory (flood or K-T event, whatever you prefer). It's basically whatever your imagination can come up with. Yeah natural selection too, how Hitler and Stalin used it, it just smells of the Theory of Devolution (gone goes 150 million between them). We could probably form a lobby group for you right from within these forums. Who's for Rinck's Theory of Devolution?
- sandra rinckposted 15 years ago0
- sandra rinckposted 15 years ago0
Another argument supporting Rinck's Theory of Devolution.
The means of turning the evolution disaster into victory have never been greater. Being aware of the drama is the first step (after all, from one man came all mankind). The scientific explanation of the origin of the cosmos has a well concealed Achilles’ heel. The flaw is the element of time. Time is used by the evolutionist as if it were an ingredient in a compound mixture. Of course, it is nothing of the kind. It is no more than a means of measuring movement. Two molecules of hydrogen mixed with one of oxygen produce water. The process can be measured by time but time is not an ingredient in the end product of water. Yet the evolution myth has built up that given enough time the most impossible things can happen: dinosaurs changing into birds, cows into whales. [In fact, due to the Second Law of Thermodynamics the opposite is the case: with time entropy increases.]- sandra rinckposted 15 years ago0
"which to me is just doyee"
I have been meaning to reply to this post for some time. I find Anthony's quote profound.
"Everything you need to know or could be known, you can find right here on Earth." -Anthony
It makes you wonder whether there should even be any space exploration. We seem to know more about outer space than our own planet.
This April 10, 2008 report called Ocean: the next great odyssey says “Less than 1 percent of the ocean has been explored. Less than 5 percent of the sea floor has been mapped" and “I believe that the human race is about to embark on a fantastic odyssey, not necessarily beyond Earth, but deep within it".Oh yes! From the things they have uncovered down there, something just blow my mind.
Like, a lake under water! That just boggles me. Of course it is the density of the water or however it works out but to see other creatures swimming in the pond in the abyss that not even their bulky machine could penetrate it makes me think, there are things that are not meant to be known too.With you both on that one - I studied deep sea ecosystems and hydrothermal vents and found them fascinating. I would love to go down in one of the submersibles and see some of the fantastic creatures down there!
speaking of aliens beings from other origins. I was watching this show about UFO's and stuff on discovery channel or maybe it was History channel... anyways.
They had this alien in a room being interrogated and it looked so creepy and stuff until it started having physically problems and the doctors came in to see what was wrong with it.
After that the alien didn't look creepy it looked scared. Don't know if it was real, more then likely it is not real but ya never really know.
Don't blame the alien though, I am scared of doctors too.
Caleb - if I wasn't already a member of you fan club - I would join again.
LOL Caleb answers are not the goal, conversation is
Wow Mark, I like it!
Thanks. Makes sense to me anyway
Aw is Sandra stifling me? I was just starting to have some fun. I even have lots more proof for her Rink's Theory of Devolution.
Stifling? Hope not. But I did say that Evolution can only go so far because in the end nothing survives.
Of course Mark said, everything we continually evolve until we are no more.
Mark said, everything is perfect.
I said, everything starts out perfect.
But whatever, Mark says it then everyone agrees, I say it then it must be some anti evolution trip.
So please Mike, continue I want to hear your thoughts.
Oh my last name is spelled with a "c". Rinck... everyone does it.Pardon me. So that would be Rinck's Theory of Devolution then.
"Mark says it then everyone agrees" is a fallacy.
To be continued.lol
If you say it is not your intention to make a philosophical attack on evolution I believe you.
But perhaps you could clear something up for me because I am a little unclear at to what you mean by "perfect."
The best I can say is that everything is perfect because it is. Everything evolves into something else. Which means it no longer exists.
But you seem to be implying - and forgive me if I got this wrong - that everything started out perfect but is no longer perfect because of evolution. Is that right?
I am also really, really really sorry that I enjoyed reading what caleb wrote.Sorta but not really. I view the process of evolution as a "perfect" process in the breakdown of all things into it's simplest form where no further process is necessary.
So in some ways, evolution is losing something but the loss of a components doesn't necessarily mean it was not perfect. If Evolution did not have a counter part like my theory of devolution, then nothing could be called extinct only changed.
And then if that were the case, there are the same number of animals, creatures, organic matter or whatever, today as there was 15 billion years ago.
But we do know that some species have become extinct. So when I said that it started out perfect... I sorta view evolution as a catalyst.
And so with the laws of thermodynamics as much argument there is about it; it would work well with the theory because as time increases, so does randomness but so does the Universe. And as the Big Bang started out as hot as hot can get... it also cools and will cool until it cannot cool anymore and this occurs with time. And started at the very beginning of the Bang.
And when it cannot cool any more, there is no movement whatsoever, unless of course the complete break down of everything that ever filled up every single space that can be filled and all moves together but nothing independent and that is how I view the theory of Absolute Zero.
So, no this is not an argument against evolution but in other words I am saying that it is incomplete. And the only thing I agree with caleb on is that I using the term devolution does me a disservice but I can't exactly go back and change the heading of the thread.
I am not sure I understand this. Why is evolution making things simpler. Sometimes they get more simple, sometimes they get more complex. They merely adapt to change. If more complex or more simple works, that is what they adapt to.
Losing something? Like what? What has this to do with perfection? If something was "perfect" and then the environment changed - so it needed to change and adapt - how is this not "perfect"?
But surely if we evolve into something different - a new species, we will have become extinct.
I have no idea if there are the same number of creatures now as there was 15 billion years ago. What difference does it make? A virus is a "creature" how many chickens does that count for?
Evolution reacts - it is not the catalyst - more the end product.
Not sure what you are saying here. Or how evolution is "complete" It is what it is. And I never said I agreed with caleb. Only that I enjoyed reading what he wrote.
Thus I said earlier in the thread that, the more complex something becomes, the more fragile it becomes. The more random it becomes the more complex it becomes. It might adapt to change but when the environment itself dies, then what will it adapt to?
That seems to be the problem with evolution when you say we always evolve; or you say here that "we evolve into something different- a new species, we will have become extinct." - I can ask you now the same question, what did we lose? What has become extinct?
But that is the other thing about evolution that does not make sense. If it always evolves and what we were before became extinct and replaces ourselves with a better "species", then the same number of species that ever did exist still exist today and then it is illogical that we have evolved from Apes, or from a common ancestor unless you would agree that all things did come from one "single" cell, if you will and in that case there would be evidence that we are all one in the same in origin, which I can only gather at this time, it being blood.
From what I recall, the blood cell being the only single cell without a nucleus.
but back to what I was saying. It wouldn't make sense even that we Apes and Humans evolved from one common ancestor with the same number of species today as there were before.
If a catalyst can cause a change without itself being affected, then what you don't know about evolution is that the process in itself does not change but it changes everything else.
So I view it as a catalyst in that Evolution, in of itself does not change but it does change other things.
I could only agree with what you just said if you did theorize with me that Evolution is a catalyst.
Evolution is perfect too
Not according to the one who Mark is a fan of calebd who says that if it were perfect then there would be no need for change.
Couldn't hurt to read the entire thread.
Oh, if you actually read the thread you see this is not my first remark here
Come on Sandy, I read all what you write
And I think you are misinterpreting Mark and Caleb, but this is between you guys, I don't stay in betweenOK. This is not an attack on evolution as a scientific theory.
We did not lose anything. Something new comes out of what was. Whatever was is no more. Extinct.
Evolution is not a catalyst. Nor is is a philosophy. It is merely the best explanation science has come up with to explain the differences and reasons behind new species. Which includes us. Sorry.
It is not wrong or right. There is no "better." There is no "perfect." What is is perfect as far as I am concerned. None of what you are saying really makes any sense or has any scientific basis.
Just another attack on evolution as far as I can see.
Yes, it would not make sense that apes and humans evolved from a common ancestor when the same number of species exist today as it did millions of years ago.
Because you said that we are continuously evolving and new species are replacing extinct ones. That means that when one is gone, then there is another in its place.
But we did not replace the ape with a human and from 1 common ancestor, then there would be 1 species to replace it, not two... evolved apes and evolved humans.
So we could not have evolved from apes and we could not have had 1 common ancestor.
But it is likely that you will again call this an attack on evolution even if I say it is not an attack on evolution. And knowing that our fellow hubbers will not do me the same respect as they do for you, then what I say doesn't matter because they believe what you say no matter what.
You don't want to discuss this with me, you don't want to try and understand what I am saying, you just want to direct this to whatever you want it to be so that others will come and say things that I did not intend for.
If there is more out there to understand then I want to understand it because not even theories stay the same. It might not be me who will do anything for this but someone will understand who does have the credentials to back it up.
But I can be your laughing stock in the mean time.and yet you still don't understand devolution. It's not a premises against evolution.
And with species XY1, whose environment was not changed, in the theory of evolution would of had to had a reason for a third of them to be cut off. There are no accidents.
The scenario of the volcanic eruption that did not change their environment is reaching. Unless you want to retract your statement about an animal not moving on their own will because they just felt like it.
Remember that conversation. lol
Look up the number of chromosomes in any given given animals of any species... how many of them share the same number of chromosomes?Of course I do not understand. You are starting from a bunch of faulty premises that make no sense.
What do you mean by "perfect," and how did you come to this conclusion?
Why do you think things become more complex and more "fragile."
There is no evidence for this and what do you mean by "fragile,"?
What do you mean by "accident," and how do you come to this conclusion?
A volcano is not an "accident." It is a natural occurence.I can see I have stirred you emotions. lol Tell you what, why don't you define it for me since you are the one with all the answers.
You brought up accident. You defined perfection and now you are also arguing with your own statements. You crack me up.
You ever stretch out a rubber band? Observe and really think... just think about it.Not really. I came to a default definition in the absence of yours. It is perfect because it is. You are implying that things began perfect and no longer are that way.
You ever stretch a rubber band only to discover it was not there?
Oh - and it was you that brought up accidents.
I read about the hobbit found that was previously believed to be a "mentally retarded woman's" brain thus not being the case. though she was small. Tough I am glad that Folk has finally "proven" that this hobbit is human that did exist along side the homo sapein but of course the question is still, where/who/what did it come from?
Really very fascinating.
I also read a while back about the size of the dinosaurs being larger because of the oxygen in the atmosphere. The more oxygen there was the larger the animal was yet their brains were very small in comparison to their bodies.
Course with the o2 levels decreasing so did the dinosaurs size but the brains became larger. So that hippo article that you left is pretty interesting. I wish there was more on the article with regards to the oxygen levels on the Island and also that of the main land as well.
I mean the dinosaurs brains were very small in comparison to their bodies with an o2 rich environment, so too was the hippo brain smaller (this is assuming that the 02 on the Island was richer -less polluted I suppose...something like that) in comparison to its body on the Island as opposed to the the size you would expect from the main land hippo.
It said that it could be because it was confined to a smaller space, and needed less energy but what if it could be that because the brain is being fueled with more oxygen, that it needs less from the environment to sustain it brains. After all, we eat to give our brains energy and food consumption makes us bigger and yet our air is becoming more polluted.
And of course time will still go on far after we are gone but seems only important to us at the time so I felt it was best to say it is only relative to humans to avoid a tangent and avoid moral discussion.
But thanks Shades, to hear that you are supportive of a mind that needs to dig is reassuring no matter what the outcome may be.
More evidence for Rinck's Theory of Devolution.
In a way this could be related to what Shadesbreath mentions about the Hobit from the island of Flores or the Madagascan hippos. The relation being the environmental factor. With the Hobit and the Madagascan hippos the environmental factor is that they were isolated on islands. This could also be true with what Sandra mentioned about the environment for the dinosaurs having more oxygen. With the case of harvesting the biggest of a species below is the environmental factor that decreases the size of a particular species.
Devolution: Breeding Down Species
The above web site talks about trophy hunting that has decreased the size of elk, moose, bighorn, grizzly and other species. It also mentions how elephant hunting/poaching for ivory has resulted in tuskless elephants of up to 98% in some groups. "And in a dramatic example of devolution, catch records from the old settlement of Louisbourg in Nova Scotia reveal that the average size of a cod caught in 1750 was just under 50 kilos, a dramatic difference from the pitiful remnants that are caught today."
The above web site talks about the impact that man has had on the Canadian east coast cod fishery. But it does not mention the impact that seals have had on the cod fishery. The ridiculous European attack on the Canadian seal hunt has played a big factor in the east coast cod fishery. Since 1992 there has been a moratorium on cod in the Canadian east coast fishery but the cod have not come back at all. During this time and because of the European attack on the Canadian seal hunt the east coast seal population has expanded by millions. Someone needs to tell Paul McCartney and Bridgette Bardot that seals eat cod.
We are all interrelated in our environment with plants and animals on this planet. That includes man. When one environmental factor is taken out of the equation (in this case the seal hunt) it upsets the balance.
Mike
P.S. Although I can not accept that we evolved from monkeys or from the same ancestor as monkeys I will try not to make fun of evolutionist. At least I'll try.Well I must say that Sandra is holding her own very well by herself against you bullies.
Sudden Abrupt Appearance?
Downward Degenerate Devolution?
Upward (Slow and Rapid) Evolution?
Let's not try to falsely convince ourselves that science has come to a conclusion yet.
You guys won't be offended if I say God bless, will you?Oh no -I no longer get offended when people ignore my express requests to suit their own selfish preferences. It is what jesus would have done.
Presumably that was the point you were making? That when you say "god bless" what you really mean is "f*** you"
jesus must be turning in his ... oh wait a minute.
Don't you have some more anti-women's right to make a choice stuff you should be pushing?You are learning Mark.
From Devolution of the Scientific Method
Hey guys, because of the bullying above I'm not even going to apologize that this is from a Creationist web site. Besides a pile of scientists are moving to the Creationist camp anyway.
MikeMore proof.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXxTQ_HGgT4
Quote - "we are not evolving, we are de-evolving."That video is so funny! I loved it. Thanks for the post. Today is one of those days were a good light laugh is good for the soul.
Yes, most commonly held theories are being retracted by the people who wrote them asking themselves more questions. I would imagine if Darwin was still alive, even he would understand this process.
These comments like the one FreshtoDeath left make me laugh, it is just like that video... 'how dare you...how dare you..!'
It makes me laugh. I think I am going to watch it again.-
You guys really are funny.
Must be a god then?
Thanks for the laughs guys. No worries about the abuse and stuff.....
And you wonder why...........
Keep up the good work. Attack some science some more - maybe that will.... Oh wait.
Most commonly held beliefs are being retracted by believers as we speak.
thank you so much. I almost forgot why I didn't believe your garbage. Bless you for proving it all once again.Your welcome!
My favorite quote. Apparently he is still believing in a fairy tale that a frog turned into a prince."
I think a lot of post get mistaken for emotional ones. In fact I can't help but laugh, this is an emotion.
The relevance of how funny your comment was, was because of the video, if you haven't watched it yet then you would not get why I am laughing.
If not it doesn't bother me. I think a good laugh is a good laugh and if you did watch the video, even if you disregarded what they author of the video is saying about evolution, what stands out is how ornery the person leaving a message was.
I think it is funny not only because it makes all the people the caller is representing seem irrational, angry and overly emotional but because... well just watch it.
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