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We're All Racists

  1. RJ Schwartz profile image95
    RJ Schwartzposted 16 months ago

    We're all racist in some ways. But racism by white people seems to be more newsworthy and gets more attention than racism by others.  There are many people who work hard to not do anything to offend their fellow human, but it's impossible to escape prejudice - it's hardwired into our bodies.

    Nevertheless, whites are expected to make more of an effort than other races to combat racism within the ranks of other white people.  If racism is the root of so many problems, why isn't it looked upon as an equal challenge for all people, not just white people?

    1. Wesman Todd Shaw profile image99
      Wesman Todd Shawposted 16 months agoin reply to this

      The left wing media's denial of non-white racism, in fact, fuels the white supremacist organizations.

    2. Live to Learn profile image82
      Live to Learnposted 16 months agoin reply to this

      I don't believe it is hard wired into our bodies. As a child I wasn't aware of color. I think it was probably when I hit high school that we became aware of it.

      I know my son wasn't aware of it. I remember when he came home confused because someone told him he shouldn't play with the neighbor's daughter because she was black. It was funny because the ones who said it were foreigners. It kind of irritated me that they would bring their prejudices to our country.

    3. Credence2 profile image81
      Credence2posted 16 months agoin reply to this

      Interesting inquiry to say the least.

      Yes, racism is an extension of a tribal mentality, but civility demands that we rise above our baser instincts if we hope to survive as a species.

      Since white males have the dominant wealth and power in America (that is documented), racism from this source means discrimination that can affect your life. Where do black people have comparable power and resources? You don't need to be concerned about what I think, just simply shrug your shoulders and move on.

      1. RJ Schwartz profile image95
        RJ Schwartzposted 16 months agoin reply to this

        So it's jealousy then?  Does that fact mean whites need "knocked down" a peg because of our successes?

        1. Credence2 profile image81
          Credence2posted 16 months agoin reply to this

          No, but have not much of the success of the white culture comes at the expense of the non-white minorities? Has it really been fair?

          No, it is not about jealousy, people are always going to put those in their own tribe first, that is natural. Simply stated, all of us do not see the current scenario as something that whites should brag about as something that they have earned.

          1. gmwilliams profile image86
            gmwilliamsposted 16 months agoin reply to this

            Yes, Caucasian success in America was & is somewhat still at the expense of non-Caucasians.  Caucasians used racism to establish sociopolitical, socioreligious, & socioeconomic hegemony in the United States & most of the world.  Caucasians imparted their language, culture, & ethos upon the countries they colonized.  Caucasians also imparted their racial preference as in many societies, the Caucasoid/Europid beauty standard is considered to be superior.  Non-Caucasians who approximate Caucasians/Europeans in looks are oftentimes granted more access to socioeconomic success than Non-Caucasians who look more ethnic. 

            Also, the theory of Caucasian racism towards non-Caucasians are based upon underlying jealousy & fear of genetic annihilation(Dr. Frances Welsing, The Isis Papers).  Caucasians have melanin recessive while non-Caucasians in varying degrees are melanin dominant with Blacks/ Africoids being the most melanin dominant.  To Caucasians, racism is a bulwark against genetic annihilation. According to many Africentric authors, Caucasians secretly wish that they had more melanin & since they don't, have an underlying envy towards non-Caucasians which they express by subduing them as they fear that if non-Caucasians really have full sociopolitical, socioreligious, & socioeconomic power, the former would be completely annihilated.  So racism is practiced by Caucasians as a way to retain their genetic power so to speak.

            1. Credence2 profile image81
              Credence2posted 16 months agoin reply to this

              I follow the first paragraph.

              The second paragraph includes an elaborate explanation that may well be too complex for the situation. Do you think that fear of genetic annihilation was really the motive? I think that the explanation is far simpler, just the maintenance of power and wealth among their own, and just another way to eliminate competition for hotly contested goods and services.

              But, I have seen pictures of lynched black men in the South burned alive, flayed and genitally mutilated after death, all among crowds in a surrounding carnival like atmosphere. This goes a level or two beyond the most loathsome of the gangbangers. I cannot understand that level of hatred toward any human being, even the Nazi's were not this sadistic. So, I have to allow for any possibility.

              1. RJ Schwartz profile image95
                RJ Schwartzposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                I have seen pictures of blacks in worse shape in Rwanda at the hands of other blacks.

                1. Credence2 profile image81
                  Credence2posted 16 months agoin reply to this

                  I have seen, under the Third Reich, white on white atrocities.

                  Rwanda is not the United States of America with its vaunted ideals of the equality of man. As the leader of the free world, trumpeting democracy and equal rights, I have the right to expect more and I do.

                2. colorfulone profile image87
                  colorfuloneposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                  The conversation about hangings et reminds me of the horrors of war.  Fragging is a term that was coined during the Vietnam war.  Officers and other military colleagues were hung by their own men or killed by grenades and other means, an estimated nine hundred.  The lack of discipline was to blame. 

                  We can all be more virtuous.

              2. Live to Learn profile image82
                Live to Learnposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                Crowds gathered for centuries to cheer at hangings and executions. Public torture was another way to draw a crowd. To say Nazi's weren't that sadistic ignores mountains of evidence of what the Jews were subjected to in concentration camps.

                We all have the tendency to sympathize with the history of the group we feel most associated with but past atrocities do not give ample justification for present prejudices or injustices. Don't we have an obligation to build a better world?

                It simply seems to me that all people with whiter skin are somehow held responsible as a group and viewed with suspicion because of any action of any white person or white controlled government over the centuries. White people in America with no power to enslave, no desire to marginalize and no thought of infringing on the rights of others  should be viewed as such and should be treated equal under the law and in the eyes of their fellow citizens.

                There is power in being identified as the victim. I do think many currently alive who have never been in the position of being the victim attempt to gain power by insisting they are entitled to play the victim and receive preferential treatment because others have suffered. This fuels current prejudice, expands it and sets the stage for future prejudice.

                1. Credence2 profile image81
                  Credence2posted 16 months agoin reply to this

                  I hear you L to L, absolutely we have an obligation to build a better world.

                  I don't think that it is white and black, it is cultural. I had visited Germany in 1978 as a young man while in the military and the racial vibes simply were not there. I could 'lower shields' realizing that racism in America did not necessarily transfer to other societies. The racial animosities that were a part of American culture that you had to always psychological prepared yourself to compensate for, simply were not there. Ask Grace Williams, she will corroborate this for you.

                  I am not blaming anybody. If Africans had came to America via the Mayflower with superior technology (gunpowder) and the natives on this continent were white, the situation would have been identical to what is transpiring today. White folks may well have been saying 'we shall overcome' instead. I say that because  I look around the world and I don't see any group or ethnicity that can claim to wear a halo relative to any other.

                  I said that about the Nazis because it appeared that what mayhem they did commit toward Jews and other undesirables was not something that they invited their wives and children to observe. Those public lynchings in the South were 'come one and come all'.

                  We can't return and readdress the past. It does not matter, who ever has the gold, rules That principle transcends racial animosity. In this American culture the whites have the gold, relative to others. That involves economics, political power and cultural influence. It is about power and maintaining it, and the Anglo-Saxon European got the luck of the draw in this reality, today. But, the situation could have been reversed under different circumstances. I am not speaking of individual people but the culture at large.

                  While not asking for preferential treatment, it is not too much to ask that people acknowledge that circumstances were unfair and while strides have been made to improve that record, many problems still remain. So, to say that racism has the same effect on whom it is directed  within this culture regardless of which direction it comes is inaccurate. We cannot escape the past as it has a great deal to do with where we are here in the present. Is anyone willing to take the cookie jar, toss it,  and reorient everything so that we all start from the same point? I doubt it.  My grandfather who worked in the railroad industry could not be a railroad engineer regardless of his talent,(1940s) as he could not be hired for such jobs because of his race. This was told to him many times, so how much more successful would his progeny have been with the additional income and prestige?

                  I am all for letting 'bygones be bygones', but we would be foolish to forget what has transpired and the price paid for what progress has been made.

                  1. Live to Learn profile image82
                    Live to Learnposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                    You can't floor sort the cookie jar. And, attempts to 'correct' are always less than perfect. We have a bank here in this state. It's in other states too but I am particularly aware of it because of my interactions with it. Apparently there was some question of its hiring practices and it chose to 'correct them'. What we ended up with were multiple branches throughout this state which suddenly had black women as branch managers. But.. and this is a big but. They weren't really branch managers. They had none of the responsibility, none of the power to make decisions and none of the power to be an active and positive force in the community. They were managers in name only. I see now that their titles have been changed to team leaders. I suppose, in response to the collective chuckle garnered by pretending that any positive action had been done by the bank.

                    I wonder how the tellers who worked there for years felt. Being passed over in order to have a 'corrective' action put in place. Was it fair to those women? No. Should they suffer because of past actions by others? Not in my opinion. I don't think harming the lives of some, to compensate for possible harm done to others makes sense. What it does is start the cycle of abuse again. Just with different people. Now, I suppose it could reasonably be argued that if we bounce back and forth, correcting transgressions, harming a few to compensate for what may or may not have happened to others, eventually we may reach a point where it is all over and no one will be hurt anymore. And that may be true, or not. But what is definitely true is that these actions create animosities toward those who are given preferential treatment and they are justifiable animosities. I shouldn't pay for the sins of another and neither should they.



                    Hard to say. Was your grandfather qualified to be an engineer or did he just want to be one? If he had been a different skin color would he have gotten a job as an engineer? Would he, had he gotten the job, retained the job? Would he have gone on to other things? And, I don't know how your family works but apparently not like mine. My success is not in any way tied to the success of my father. No opportunity was given to me that would not have been available otherwise because of my connection to him. Yes, I did receive an inheritance upon his death but that isn't enough to change my stars or that of my offspring. Yes he was well liked within the community but that does not raise me in their estimation; that I am aware of.

                  2. MizBejabbers profile image88
                    MizBejabbersposted 2 months agoin reply to this

                    Credence, why do you and others keep bringing up lynchings in the South? The west probably lynched more human beings than any other area. The north tarred and feathered miscreants and people of ill repute. I understand R.J.'s question is about racism, but it seems that the South remains the country's whipping boy.

      2. tirelesstraveler profile image82
        tirelesstravelerposted 16 months agoin reply to this

        Look up wealthy blacks and see how wealthy they tend to be.

        1. Credence2 profile image81
          Credence2posted 16 months agoin reply to this

          Am I missing something tireless? What's your point. One or two wealthy black individuals does not change the point that I am making. If so, please, you tell me how?

      3. dianetrotter profile image72
        dianetrotterposted 2 months agoin reply to this

        And we were placed in this position by white people who profited from the labor of slaves.  Most were given nothing when they were freed.  They were not allowed to get an education so they couldnt read or write.

    4. gmwilliams profile image86
      gmwilliamsposted 16 months agoin reply to this

      Caucasians are the only ones capable of practicing racism because racism entails power of the dominant over the subordinate in terms of determining the access &/or quality of education, housing, health care, living conditions, jobs, &  other quality of life issues.  Although Blacks & other non-Caucasians can be prejudiced, they can't be racist as non-Caucasians don't have the power to determine the access &/or quality of education, housing, health care, living conditions, jobs, & other quality of life issues.

      1. RJ Schwartz profile image95
        RJ Schwartzposted 16 months agoin reply to this

        The word defined - the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
        Sorry, but your SJW narrative doesn't cut it

        1. wrenchBiscuit profile image85
          wrenchBiscuitposted 16 months agoin reply to this

          GM Williams is absolutely correct! Your denial is predictable because this accurate assessment doesn't fit the racist narrative you want to promote. I also saw in this thread you commented something about black people needed to earn your respect. I had to laugh when I saw that. Isn't 400 years of free labor, and 100 years of Jim Crow enough to get just a little bit of respect? And you should be thankful the black people here didn't do what the Haitians did to their oppressors. I'd say the black people in the U.S. have been more than patient.

          And I'm sure you couldn't have missed the FBI report in 2006 warning that the KKK had infiltrated Police Departments across the U.S.. That was ten years ago! What do you think the KKK have be doing in those blue uniforms for the last ten years Ralph? I'll help you along:

          They have been facilitating the flow of drugs into black communities throughout the United States. And it's a win, win, win, for the Klan. They help to destroy the black community with drugs, they incarcerate young black men who start using and dealing the drugs that they helped to provide, and they get a nice kickback from the sale of the drugs.This is how they are destroying the black community, in the light of day, by trading their white hoods for a blue uniform. And when that's not enough they get their kicks by shooting Tamir Rice, or Anton Sterling, or by lynching Sandra Bland.

          And so, the African and the Indigenous are being oppressed by two different sides of the same coin. The U.S. government and the Klan. But you never figure these details into your "I'm not racist but ..." narrative.

          1. Live to Learn profile image82
            Live to Learnposted 16 months agoin reply to this

            Need a little cheese with the whine?

            If someone offered me drugs I'd refuse. If someone were actively selling them in my community I'd do everything possible to remove them, or if I couldn't I'd move.

            The blame game is fine but it cannot fully remove the need for personal responsibility. This is one thing missing from the discussion. If you buy into a system you can't expect others not to question why you don't opt out.

            1. wrenchBiscuit profile image85
              wrenchBiscuitposted 16 months agoin reply to this

              http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13097987.jpg

              So are you suggesting that Tamir Rice should have been responsible and not played with toy guns in the park? The only problem that black people have is the same problem my people have had for 500 years, and that is the problem of white supremacy. And it looks like people "are" taking responsibility. Black Lives Matter, Jesse Williams, the Mexica Movement, A.I.M. and a host of others are speaking out and taking action against this evil system. Yes, we are going to whine, and march, and do whatever is necessary to bring this dog to heel.

              Martin Luther King and Malcolm X were both righteous men who wanted the same thing, but Martin made the mistake of thinking you could appease and pacify those who hate you; those who want to keep you down; and those who want to kill you. Love and Peace look good on paper,  but even Jesus could not pacify the evil that stands behind white supremacy with Love and Peace. He was hated by many, and then hung up on a cross.

              Malcolm X said of Martin Luther King:
              "He got the peace prize, we got the problem.... If I'm following a general, and he's leading me into a battle, and the enemy tends to give him rewards, or awards, I get suspicious of him. Especially if he gets a peace award before the war is over."


              I do not believe that this statement necessarily tarnishes the legacy of MLK, as he fought, suffered, and was murdered just as Malcolm X. This statement , more importantly, reveals the cunning and insidious nature of the white supremacists. It reveals how an evil system co-opted the Civil Rights Movement by exploiting the popularity of MLK and his message of non-violence. It is absurd to suggest that a non-violent, oppressed group of people, can win a war against another group who does not hesitate to use violence against them. Since when did the U.S. government use a non-violent approach to Imperialist Aggression? Since when did the Zionists use a non-violent approach to their oppression of the Palestinian people?

              All of these governments who stress non-violence use violence as their ultimate tool of diplomacy. The most horrific example of this in modern times is the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. And if anyone in the peanut gallery wants to suggest that the U.S. government, or Israel are simply defending themselves with weapons of mass destruction, then you have only agreed with my position! Because that is what the black people are doing now. They are attempting to defend themselves against an enemy who has been attacking them for 500 years! And that enemy is white supremacy. Police Brutality is just one manifestation of white supremacy. In the late 60's many believed that our goal was equality. But today that is not our goal. We have no desire to be equal to a rapist, a thief , and a murderer. The Colonialist Invaders gave us Jesus and told us to love our enemies. After which they proceeded to rape our women, steal our lands, enslave us, and commit the greatest act of genocide in the last 500 years. What kind of a fool would love this kind of  enemy? We are all out of love. Today, our goal is total freedom from white supremacy. And we will accept nothing less.

              1. Castlepaloma profile image63
                Castlepalomaposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                In war more often the numbers of people win. When whites are reduce by 5% in the next 20 years, people of color win. Just a few bad apple whites need to be locked up anyways.

                1. wrenchBiscuit profile image85
                  wrenchBiscuitposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                  Absolutely! They are a blight upon all of humanity. There is no way to appease,or reason with  a cockroach, as we do not speak the same language.

              2. Live to Learn profile image82
                Live to Learnposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                When the 'law' conducts themselves in an unlawful manner I am a firm believer that they should be held to the letter of the law and if found guilty punished to the full extent of the law so, no, I don't think Tamir Rice was responsible. I would ask how a community allowed itself to devolve to the point that a 12 year old playing with a toy gun could be perceived as a threat. I could ponder why the parents of a 12 year old boy would stay in a community which had devolved to that point.

                That is what I was talking about when I said blame, even fairly laid, does not negate personal accountability. No one is 100% a victim. I am a firm supporter of the BLM movement. I just don't support constant whining negativity which appears to only hope to achieve something for absolutely nothing.



                I suppose you missed the whole point of the Jesus story. Oh well. Martin Luther King didn't.




                You got me. I agree with Obama when he said something to the effect that if someone was lobbing scud missiles into his backyard where his kids were playing he would be surprised if someone had a problem with a reaction from him.

                Your comments are, again, a prime example of the problem. Whining, whining, whining....without any attempt to see the problem from both sides. I'm sure whining has some cathartic properties but it exacerbates a problem.



                I suppose you believe an attempt to spare the lives of service men and women who had not been party to starting a world war should never have been taken into account. The aggressors should have been given each and every consideration the non aggressors were not given. I'm afraid war creates tragedy. Don't start one and you might avert some of that.



                Can we all say 'overly dramatic' together? You aren't going to get any points with intelligent and thoughtful people of color with that little chicken little statement.



                Who, out of curiosity, is we? You aren't black. I hear you aren't native american. You aren't latino. Can I assume we have a case similar to Rachel Dolezal here?

                1. wrenchBiscuit profile image85
                  wrenchBiscuitposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                  http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13098385.jpg
                  I could care less what a racist American thinks of me. No more than I care about Earthworms, Fire Ants, or Vultures. If you had educated yourself, you would know who we are. We are the Indigenous First Nations and Mixed Race People of North and South America.I have been fighting these racist dogs since I was a child. just as  my Father and Mother before me, as they were great warriors.

                  Furthermore, "Native American and Latino" are derogatory terms that are no better than the "N-Word". "Latino","Hispanic", "Native American", and "Indian" are genocidal terms that are being used to erase Indigenous identity. I would never shame myself and say that I am "Native American". That would be foolish since my people existed on this continent long before the Invaders came. We are all Nican Tlaca.

                  1. Live to Learn profile image82
                    Live to Learnposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                    Somehow, nothing you say as to who you are is believable. I just fed 50 native Americans on their walk toward Washington. They identified themselves as such and each shared which tribe they were from.
                    Not one among them had anything to say remotely similar to the vitriol you are spewing. They were positive, kind and it was a pleasure to feed them as they stopped in their journey.

                    I doubt you are anything other than an American mutt who wants desperately to be a victim. I've met many of them over the years. Very, very sad.

                2. wrenchBiscuit profile image85
                  wrenchBiscuitposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                  http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13098827.jpg
                  The comment about "chicken little" is most telling. And there is only one reason why you would make a statement denying that the sky is blue.  You claim to support BLM, but that is hard to believe in light of the fact that you accuse me of "whining". I have to laugh because if that is your perception then it doesn't jive that you would support a national organization that is "whining" far louder than I could ever whine. And they've also got thousands of people all across the U.S. marching in the streets and "whining" right along with them. And I can hardly believe that you find the views of BLM to be any less radical than my own. In fact, I am obviously less militant because I didn't take the time and effort to form a group like BLM. And so, this comment, just like the others you have made concerning my post, simply doesn't make any sense, as I have shown.

                  1. Live to Learn profile image82
                    Live to Learnposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                    No one has denied the sky is blue. Are you certain you can read?



                    Honestly, I'm related to black people and work with quite a few. Not one of them is too far off from my personal opinion on the matter and we all support the movement. I will take the word of people of color whom I am closely acquainted with to the whines of an internet troll any day of the week.


                    I support the premise that Black Lives Matter. I support the belief that we should all be treated with the same respect under the law. Now, there may be some more that you are attributing to the movement. I don't have to agree with you on every point to be in the camp of those who support BLM. You are not BLM I think, if you could get to that understanding of the matter, it might help.



                    They are demanding what I support. Not your vitriol. I wouldn't support anything that pits Americans unfairly against other Americans. I won't support anyone who claims to be disadvantaged when there is no evidence of such. As in your comments on this site.



                    I can only assume that you do not read what you write.



                    I can understand why it doesn't make any sense to you. I don't see much evidence that you are capable of following the thoughts and comments of others.

      2. mrpopo profile image80
        mrpopoposted 16 months agoin reply to this

        So blacks & other non-Caucasians can be prejudiced without being racist because they don't have power, thus giving them the power of being prejudiced without being accused of racism, a power that whites don't have.

        Also

        "as non-Caucasians don't have the power to determine the access &/or quality of education, housing, health care, living conditions, jobs, & other quality of life issues."

        Care to expand on that? Is that including people like, I don't know, the President of the United States?

        1. wrenchBiscuit profile image85
          wrenchBiscuitposted 16 months agoin reply to this

          http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13100295.jpg

          Another racially biased and predictable response. Archie Bunker and Bull Connor would have agreed wholeheartedly with you. And since I am sure you don't know who Bull Connor was, do a web search and educate yourself.

          1. mrpopo profile image80
            mrpopoposted 16 months agoin reply to this

            Not as predictable as you continuing to call me racist in lieu of an argument.

            I’m not surprised that you think guilt by (presumed) association is a valid argument. If you don’t know what guilt by association is, you ought to follow your own advice, do a web search and educate yourself. Or carry on being <censored because Hubpages doesn’t want me to offend the sensibilities of individuals who are themselves disparaging and insulting to others>.

    5. profile image37
      Laurry Jonesposted 16 months agoin reply to this

      You just spoke my mind.

      1. Kiss andTales profile image59
        Kiss andTalesposted 16 months agoin reply to this

        Why should anyone want to entertain the thought on either side it is just wrong on either side.
        This exist but are we allowing society to mold us in its mold of hate .prejudice.
        No I will not allow hate to make me weak to hate. Nore give them the power over my mind I own. We can do good with our lives or we can do bad. No one can drive my ship but me. Letting others influence you to hate is being a follower. No do good with your gift of life if in the future life will be judge on all conduct not in.local courts but the Heavenly Supreme Court of law and morals.
        People can do as they wish but it is a test to see whats truly in your heart.
        Why?
        Psalms 37:11 'But the meek will possess the earth.'
        Matt 5:5 'happy are the mild tempered they will inherit the earth.'
        If we are not in control of our hearts and actions we will not be the ones that will be given this earth.
        We all on watch and we will all be dealt with.

    6. Abn Ranger profile image61
      Abn Rangerposted 16 months agoin reply to this

      Racism is human nature.  Birds of a feather flock together = Racism.

    7. LLugo profile image71
      LLugoposted 16 months agoin reply to this

      Well, to answer your questions racism is not equal because it happens more with racist white people because they think that we should still be slaves. I have read every reply on here and I am just like wow at some of them. What did I just step into? LOL.

      1. Live to Learn profile image82
        Live to Learnposted 16 months agoin reply to this

        You may have missed some of the posts. Or, maybe it was said on another thread. Some non white racists are calling for the extermination of whites. I'd rather have someone wish me a slave than wish me dead.

    8. Onusonus profile image82
      Onusonusposted 2 months agoin reply to this

      How do you know everyone is racist? I'm not Racist. Don't speak for me.

      1. dianetrotter profile image72
        dianetrotterposted 2 months agoin reply to this

        I don't want to speak for anyone else but we all have prejudices that are called preferences.  I don't like some white people - not because they are white but because of my interaction with them or what I observe about them.

        That holds true for people of all colors.  I worked with a white music teacher who was obnoxious, narcissistic and racist.  Because I had to work with her, I got to know other things about her we were able to have a decent relationship.

        I had a Black director, who was a retired captain in the air force, who treated me like a servant.  I have more intense feelings about him than the music teacher.

        I think the fact that some people are racist and act on it gets lost in people attempting to say that their group is "NOT" racist.  It is an individual thing.  It should be easy enough to agree that each individual is different.

        1. Onusonus profile image82
          Onusonusposted 2 months agoin reply to this

          I agree with you on a lot of that stuff. It's not prejudice to not like individuals based on your experience with those individuals.

    9. dianetrotter profile image72
      dianetrotterposted 2 months agoin reply to this

      What causes police to kill or batter non-whites that have not committed a crime.

      Milwaukee Police just shot a Black Male in the head
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wnv__I16dU8

      Black teenage woman, mistaken for machete-wielding black man, alleges police brutality
      http://hubpages.com/forum/post/reply/2823743

      Police at wrong address shoot, kill unarmed man inside home, lawyer says
      https://www.cbsnews.com/news/lawyer-pol … -his-home/

      different outcome with white lady

      Georgia police officer tells woman 'we only kill black people' on camera
      https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat … 623283001/

    10. dianetrotter profile image72
      dianetrotterposted 2 months agoin reply to this

      Now I'm curious.

      What is the documented evidence that Black people are attempting to get reparations?  If this is a bone of contention, what is the source.  Or is it just fake news.

      I'm not trying to be sarcastic.  What is the source of the claim that Black people are pursuing/seeking reparations?

      1. Live to Learn profile image82
        Live to Learnposted 2 months agoin reply to this

        Google is your friend, Diane

        https://policy.m4bl.org/platform/
        We demand that the government repair the harms that have been done to Black communities in the form of reparations

        reconstruction of the economy to ensure our communities have collective ownership, not merely access
        https://bluelivesmatter.blue/black-live … s-demands/

        White [people] if you don’t have any descendants, will your property to a Black or Brown family. Preferably one that lives in generational poverty. … White [people] if you can afford to downsize give up the home you own to a Black or Brown family. Preferably a family from generational poverty. … White [people], re-budget your monthly so you can donate to Black funds for land purchasing.
        http://www.snopes.com/2017/08/24/did-bl … -up-homes/

        I'm certain a more thorough search would find more examples of individuals within the movement showing  their true motivation.

        1. dianetrotter profile image72
          dianetrotterposted 2 months agoin reply to this

          These examples make my point. 
          1.  You had to Google to find them.  I, a Black person, had never heard of them.  i don't associate with people who have these views.

          2.  The Blue Lives Matter site is not one written by a Black person/group requesting anything.  Blue Lives Matter is a group created in response to Black Lives Matter.  Instead of working on an the issue to reduce police killing of innocent Black people (and yes, many of them are innocent), they talk about reparations - this sirs up ThEIR base.

          3.  If you read through the Snopes article, they are debunking and clarifying lies/miscommunications.

          There is NOTHING to support the perception that Black people expect reparations.  These are individuals/small groups who have no name recognition other than when they state something about reparations.  Like Credence says, and is said in the Snopes article, those comments are picked up with people who want to have a reason to hate Black people.  Those people/websites are of absolutely no consequence.

          Google is your friend, Diane

          https://policy.m4bl.org/platform/
          We demand that the government repair the harms that have been done to Black communities in the form of reparations

          Response:  I never heard of this.  I looked down through the "50" organizations and never heard of them.  Anyone can put up a fake website.  How does that impact you?  I see KKK and other white hatred sites and don't get upset about what "whites want" based on some extremist nuts.


          Snopes does fact checks.  I never heard of Helms and don't support BLM.  I did say that there some people may talk about reparations.  Excerpt from the site

          "When Helm wrote the list, she had in mind the articulation between the racial hate being expressed in Charlottesville and how it relates to institutional racism, and how that system has influenced wealth and life prospects for African-American communities in the United States. She says she was thinking about an ongoing housing crisis among Louisville residents of color, but also about how the 2008 housing crisis and displacement caused by gentrification have limited access to housing and property ownership. In a phone interview, Helm gave the example of a quote by Nelson Mandela that says:

          Like slavery and apartheid, poverty is not natural. It is man-made and it can be overcome and eradicated by the actions of human beings."

          1. Live to Learn profile image82
            Live to Learnposted 2 months agoin reply to this

            Diane, a google search would probably bring up your comments, also. 

            I agree that the only black voices I have heard demanding reparations are on the internet or tv. I have never personally spoken to anyone who has espoused these demands. However, the demands have been publicly made by some. So, it is not unreasonable or untruthful to say that some within the black community are making these demands. It is these people who marginalize the efforts of others who are simply hoping for an open dialogue. Although, I will say, any attempts at an open dialogue usually showcase examples (such as found in this thread) of what I consider to be unreasonable demands. Even in this thread there are examples of some in the black community claiming that they are due monetary outlay.

            Here is one quote, from one hubber, within this thread I won’t say that reparations are not warranted more than they simply are not politically palatable. With an attitude such as that, do you honestly see that any conversation will provide the 'healing' many say they are seeking? 'Healing' appears to equate to money. You might call it reparations, where I would see it as a hand out. I'm sorry, but that is the way I see it. I didn't do anything to anyone. My family didn't do anything to anyone. And, honestly, if 'reparations' or 'hand outs' were given, who would pay? You and I, as taxpayers.

            1. dianetrotter profile image72
              dianetrotterposted 2 months agoin reply to this

              My point is everybody is different.  People form groups for whatever reason.  That's our First Amendment right for freedom of speech.

              I am glad that some (not all) white people are bringing up the subject of reparations because it helps to put their comments into context.  Bringing that out allows the opportunity to discuss it and probe it. 

              I can't be responsible for anyone else.  I've been on Hubpages for at least 5 years.  I've never spoken about being owed anything.  I can't be responsible for what anyone else things or feels.  Do you think it is legitimate to hold the thought of one person against a whole group?  Or even the thoughts of some against all.

              Could you imagine me being upset with you because I got discriminated against on a job?

              We, including me, should regularly reflect on our own feelings what "why?" and "is it reasonable?"

              God wants us to love 1) and 2) eacth other.  We can't do that as long as we give ourselves reasons to hate, dislike, or feel agrieved.

              May God have mercy on us all.

              1. Live to Learn profile image82
                Live to Learnposted 2 months agoin reply to this

                As a woman who is white I can guarantee you that I believe in a just and equal society. I always have. But you will never hear me back the idea of reparations for past injustices. It will never end, once started. Everyone can cite some part of their past where an injustice occurred. I'm not backing anything other than a society where we are all equal and have the same advantages and rights. To do otherwise would not be advocating equality and advantage for all. Tickling your ear is not my goal. Honesty is.

                1. dianetrotter profile image72
                  dianetrotterposted 2 months agoin reply to this

                  Again, you are addressing a concern that I do not have.  You have to search online to find this stuff.  It's like looking for a reason to be upset.

            2. Credence2 profile image81
              Credence2posted 2 months agoin reply to this

              Now you know that you would just have a hissy fit, if I judged you and all white people by the behavior of those of you on the political extremities (KKK, Nazism, and White Nationalism) right? These groups’ ideology is about the removal and elimination or at a minimum the subjugation of all non white people in America. How much does that marginalize the idea of an open dialogue?

              Yes, I made that comment, but you cherry picked and edited the rest of the story, just like they do on Fox News. What else did I say in that paragraph? Yes, I like to win the lottery as well, but I don’t go around professing that the system be changed to accommodate that wish. I think about and wish for a lot of things, but only advocate the doable and practical, and that is all that you need to be concerned about.

              I am pissed about all of this, yes!! I also think about the lost talents and capabilities of almost 4 million people, almost 13 percent of the American population in 1860. None of them ever had an opportunity to be an Astor, Vanderbilt, or a J.P. Morgan or Rockefeller. Who knows how much wealth, affluence and opportunity would be available to so many of our people today? Instead they all wasted their lives putting food on someone else table. But, in the practical and real world, I have to move on but I grieve and allow myself the right to do so. A little of that anger and grief exists in most Black people when they understand the true nature of what had happened. And, yet I won’t speak for everybody. Yes, we got the shaft, and no, it was not the fault of anyone living today. But somebody did it, and the fact that the crime was committed and when I think of the ramifications, there will never be a time where it will not be a part of my thoughts. Who knows, maybe this society will move forward in the concepts of true equality enough to the point when my grandnieces and nephews will look back and dismiss this time period and all of its concerns  as ancient history, like we laugh at witch hunters, today? Maybe then they would be in a position to finally make peace with history. As Charlottesville indicates, we are definitely not there yet.

              1. Live to Learn profile image82
                Live to Learnposted 2 months agoin reply to this

                I agree that our society would be fundamentally different (and better) and probably more advanced had millions of voices not been relegated to silence over the years. That includes the voices of women as well as minorities which were marginalized. But, I didn't cherry pick. I simply took one of your statements out of the paragraph to share it.

                Think of it this way. If I, as a woman, advocated reparations for centuries of subjugation and servitude would that make sense?

                1. dianetrotter profile image72
                  dianetrotterposted 2 months agoin reply to this

                  I don't think that a woman claiming servitude is anything like a man treating you like an animal, using you for breeding services, making you work in the field and give birth in the field.  The comment shows you don't understand the gravity of what was done to Black women.  It's not about cooking and cleaning the house.  It's treating someone like an animal, breeding, taking away their young, etc.

                2. Credence2 profile image81
                  Credence2posted 2 months agoin reply to this

                  I hear you and agree about the futility of reparations.

                  But, you cannot compare the crime of paternalism, toward White women, from White men with the brutality, barbarism, directed toward Blacks (men and women) in particular. If I had to choose which form of abuse I could live with, the making of the choice would not be too hard. White women in the South allowed the issue of their 'so called virtue' to be a rallying cry for murder and lynching of Black men. While they just stood by, twirling their parasols.  They were accomplices to these crimes, let us not forget that.

                  1. Live to Learn profile image82
                    Live to Learnposted 2 months agoin reply to this

                    roll I'm seeing a pattern here Credence. Let me guess; if you had to choose between the gas chambers of Nazi Germany and the cotton fields of South Carolina you'd choose the gas chambers. Because, honestly, they couldn't have been as bad.

  2. KCO profile image93
    KCOposted 16 months ago

    The privileged (white, male and middle+ class in the case of America) are more ridiculed (ie newsworthy and gets more attention) for their actions being racist than any other group because most other groups who they tend to be racist towards have an institutionalized disadvantage towards them. And that makes the "racism" (whether that be the intention or not) hurt all the more. If you want this oversimplified it's: "white people are seen as racist because they already have all the advantages so the minute they speak out against any other group it must be because they're trying to take them down."
    As a white, middle class member of society I think that a little prejudice towards my actions being racist is the least of the worries I could have.

  3. Kiss andTales profile image59
    Kiss andTalesposted 16 months ago

    People can be bread and raised on being racists even teach their pets how to be. If you teach your child who knows no one but you as their guides in life and you have no reason to doubt their reasons then you allow this thought to be your reasons to be prejudice. Only by the time you grow old enough to decide for yourself by experience or anothers , will you change your opinion . it sorta like the old saying the blind leads the blind. There are beautiful arrays of color surrounding our planet. Flowers. Planets , sky and moon. Water have reflections of color even in the rainbow
    So human skin also is arrayed with beautiful color. Not to forget our animals have an array. The peacock is one of my favorites , and the white swan is breath taking, the black panther
    coat is a thing of beauty .So why do people associate the color of skin with preduice. Igorance of what they do not know and think.
    When 911 happened color did not mean nothing it was about saving a life.
    Life comes in many colors and one day it could be another skin that may save our own.
    Thats the color that matters.
    Love !

  4. Oztinato profile image80
    Oztinatoposted 16 months ago

    Speak for yourself.
    We are NOT all racist. That's often what a racist person says to justify their own racism. It's called a rationalization and has nothing to do with what's called "truth".
    There are many more people who enjoy and respect cultural and racial differences.

    1. RJ Schwartz profile image95
      RJ Schwartzposted 16 months agoin reply to this

      Sorry, but psychology proves you wrong.  I'm not just throwing out an opinion - I encourage you to do the reading for yourself. Many people are fantastic in most situations, but there is a degree of racism in them.

      1. Oztinato profile image80
        Oztinatoposted 16 months agoin reply to this

        Hogwash.
        I have a degree with 2 years of Anthropology and studied this topic in detail at the highest level.
        The type of person who becomes a racist has been analysed since the 50s.
        Ethnocentricism whereby a group thinks it's better than another group as in culture ( or even a team sport etc) only becomes toxic when it putrifies into intolerance and feelings of gross superiority as in bigotry.
        Racism is a very ugly extremely unnatural state of being whereby another human being is dehumanised. Usually plainly bigoted people with gutter "ethics" become and stay racist because they simply enjoy feeling superior especially if they can get away with it and beat someone up for "fun".

        1. gmwilliams profile image86
          gmwilliamsposted 16 months agoin reply to this

          +1,000,000,000,000-Gordon W. Allport in his book, The Nature of Prejudice, detailed the psychology of the racist.

          1. Oztinato profile image80
            Oztinatoposted 16 months agoin reply to this

            Yep that's the book. Standard text.

        2. RJ Schwartz profile image95
          RJ Schwartzposted 16 months agoin reply to this

          I'm sorry but your liberal arts associates degree seems to be in contrast to lots of published PhD professionals / racist actions are indeed something learned, but people are inherently subconsciously predisposed to be biased based on race.  Disagree all you like, but you can't change human nature

          1. Oztinato profile image80
            Oztinatoposted 16 months agoin reply to this

            My what?
            You mean my degree in Fine Arts and Archaeology/Anthropology from Sydney University?
            There is absolutely no propensity for people to become racist other than parental example. Try visiting a pre-school and watch all the kids playing together without a thought about "racism".
            You're forgetting stuff.

            1. Castlepaloma profile image63
              Castlepalomaposted 16 months agoin reply to this

              Good example

  5. Dana Tate profile image88
    Dana Tateposted 16 months ago

    I have heard racist remarks being thrown at every race. In my opinion it really doesn't have anything to do with skin color but power and the determination to stay on top. I think deep down every logical human being understand that the only race is the human race and we all exists in a variety of colors. Dogs come in different colors too and so does every other animal, but a dog is still a dog regardless of his color and a cat is still a cat.  Greed, is the root of all evil and every excuse we use, including race as far as skin color, is just something we use as an excuse to live with ourselves.

  6. Wesman Todd Shaw profile image99
    Wesman Todd Shawposted 16 months ago

    Claiming that only the construct known as 'white people' can be racist - is a thing a racist would say. It's also the exact sort of pageantry which leads low income 'white people' to the shelter of white supremacy groups.

    True story.

  7. Will Apse profile image91
    Will Apseposted 16 months ago

    People fear all kinds of thing, including people who appear different. Racists work their fears up into a paranoid ideology which is immensely destructive.

    Next time you feel alarmed when you see someone with a different skin color ask yourself if that fear is justified.

  8. MizBejabbers profile image88
    MizBejabbersposted 16 months ago

    R.J. I agree with your statement. I've worked with non-American black people and I've met them when I was abroad. They just don't project the "aura", I don't know how else to describe it, that many African-Americans do. I will make an exception for the African-Americans that I went to college with and those with whom I work. They are educated and approach white people as equals, and they are treated as equals. I count several of them among my sincere friends. I believe that it is a matter of conditioning, and it is how we and they are conditioned.
    Several black people have made statements in my presence that could be considered racist, and they didn't seem to notice that what they said might be offensive to a Caucasian. If the situation were reversed, they would have let me know that they were offended. I kept my white mouth shut and let it go.

    1. gmwilliams profile image86
      gmwilliamsposted 16 months agoin reply to this

      There are Black Americans who each time they view Caucasian Americans, they see RACIST which isn't true in many cases.   Many Black Americans have an us vs. them when it comes to racial relations.   Black Americans who grew up in mostly Caucasian enclaves & interfaced w/Caucasians on an equal basis have little or no prejudices against Caucasians.   Solidly middle, upper middle, & upper class Black Americans who interfaced well w/Caucasians from childhood are the least prejudiced towards Caucasians.  It is usually Black Americans who grew up in segregated communities & neighborhoods who have the MOST prejudice against Caucasians.   Also, it is the Black Americans in the lower, working, & lower middle class who are the most prejudiced because they haven't dealt w/Caucasians on an equal basis but as more subordinate-superior basis.   As a solidly middle class Black American, I didn't find Caucasians to be a problem but other Blacks.....well, THAT'S A DIFFERENT STORY.........I can say that I have faced the most prejudice from my fellow Blacks.   As a child, I was called Caucasian girl because my aspirations & tastes were different.  I listened to classical music, liked the Beatles & other Caucasian artists, spoke proper English, & also made good marks.  Many solidly middle, upper middle, & upper class Blacks face derision from their lower socioeconomic class counterparts.  I digress.

  9. profile image60
    maryjahn222posted 16 months ago

    reading so far about RACISM, as if it were defined the same by everyone and tied to the tints of skins and colorings..huh ?//   “Live to Learn” wrote also:  There is power in being identified as the victim. I do think many currently alive who have never been in the position of being the victim attempt to gain power by insisting they are entitled to play the victim and receive preferential treatment because others have suffered. This fuels current prejudice, expands it and sets the stage for future prejudice.”   …. Dana Tate wrote: ‘doesn't have anything to do with skin color but power and the determination to stay on top… Greed, is the root of all evil and every excuse we use, including race as far as skin color, is just something we us…”  and credence2    “acknowledge that circumstances were unfair”

    I too write for “we”, the “people”, mostly in this USA:   the word “FAIR” and justice are words used, for purposes political, and convenience, but actually are only words, as the results are seldom agreed upon by both or other sides. 
    There is No-Fair in nature, in the cosmos [as we’ve learned about it from prejudiced humans].

    There has never been “Justice” by opposing sides/ people’s/ tribes, et al. Compromise and  adjusted settlements are made but one or other repeats the “no justice” and “no fair” forever after anyhow.

    Because it is a human wish and attempt, vs. a fact of our lives. I think. Therefore I have not found any “Fair” or “Just” act, person, or incident, taking all contexts and those involved in that too.   But we all hear, read, learn that those in most power are acting or ‘trying’ to be fair and do justice it’s due. ha ha

    been into any courtroom and found ‘justice’ there ?  only if the winner was asked. but the others disagree. Found a judge who is totally incorruptible or just or fair ? They wear the attorney’s elevated black robes of power and are not accountable, most often.
    Fair is what they say they do, but  the results are “just not” always/often/mostly true.

    So we can wish and try and pretend and proclaim all we want to about how it “should be” and that is the mantra forever used as an excuse and desire for what is Wanted.

    but the Results that count in any tangible, palpable way are Not as claimed. Knowing this reality helps in diminishing disappoints that reappear anywhere.
    Make a complaint or criticism and you are called “unfair” and wrong too.
    Make a request, and that too is often labeled as “no fair to others” as an excuse for denial.  Make a deal, and both may get ‘some’ and still know ‘that was Not Fair, but..ok, we’ll take what we can anyhow”…   

    Please prove this understanding wrong….and face what is, vs. what is wanted. Like “hope”….that is a future wanting to be.  No Fair ~ and no 'peace' either....

    1. Credence2 profile image81
      Credence2posted 16 months agoin reply to this

      yes, while the ideal may continue to elude us, we all have an obligation within this society that enshrines the concept of the equality of all, under the rule of law, to insist that these high minded ideals are to amount to more than just mere words.

      1. profile image60
        maryjahn222posted 16 months agoin reply to this

        credence2:   do you mean "try"  ?   and 'to insist" means what in actuality? How do you enforce your ideals on others who disagree and want different/ more?    what is more than 'mere words'  besides tangibles, sensated ?
        wishful idealistic thinking is fun and prevents suicides -  but doesnt do much fairly nor justly, i have found, not just 'think'. duh..... no fun?  true.

  10. tirelesstraveler profile image82
    tirelesstravelerposted 16 months ago

    Grew up in Oakland California in the 60's and early 70's.  Had black friends. During race riots they were as scared as anyone. Some were angry some were not.  It depended on their families.  I have recently spent a lot of time with a woman of color who taught me much about anger in ethnic communities.   I was clueless.  I'm not anymore. She learned lots  about the white people from me too.  We have tons in common.  There is so much honest anger, and pure lying floating through our society that needs to stop. - Don't teach a man to fish.  Give him a family who will help him to be honest, have respect for himself, and will teach him sometimes when you fish you don't get any fish.  Give them the love to press on to the next day with new skills and when the fish might be hungry.

    1. Credence2 profile image81
      Credence2posted 16 months agoin reply to this

      Based on your experiences, you understand more than most.

  11. ahorseback profile image78
    ahorsebackposted 16 months ago

    Hillary just romanticized that ....." white Americans need to do a better job of listening ......"  how intellectually bland a response to the all out stupidity of TODAY"S racism.    What "white "Americans need to do is fight back against the utter stupidity of such a non-cause . Racism  is more powerful a presence   FROM  the black community   as is  directed against them , even  black media pundits are saying that .    There isn't one  element of true racism in the inner cities that wasn't born of modern day teachings and manifestations of localized liberal  leadership ! Truth.

    I say "TODAYS " racism because , for all intents and purposes , today , it is a fake accusation !   The majority of near cures of historical racism are simply in the past as well , the accomplishments  of the fifties and sixties race dialogs  were WAY more positively  proven .    Affirmative Action accomplished far more   in the past than today.     I believe the major problem with organizations like BLM  is  jealousy . WHY?   Given the vast  sets of minorities in America today ;   blacks have categorically failed to positively utilize the benefits of forward looking social accomplishment!     

    Why are Hispanic , Asian  ,middle eastern ,  European , eastern European or even Canadian  immigrants of today far more likely to move upwards  than their  black counterparts ?     Maybe because of   personal accountability ?  Maybe  that simply  the color of ones skin ALLOWS for self centered focus on  a negative construct in personal accountability . Professional victim-hood ?   My point , I can't get away with that ,  a middle easterner can't get away with that ,  A Canadian can't get away with that , a Hispanic can't either . How much of todays problem is simply ethnic self exile ?
    Just askin '!  We can ALL spend more time thinking about this ,if you ask me .
    Those who cannot ;
    This is where you call me a racist ...........................

    1. Agarwal Sapan profile image62
      Agarwal Sapanposted 16 months agoin reply to this

      Deleted

      1. Castlepaloma profile image63
        Castlepalomaposted 16 months agoin reply to this

        Jokes are not in English. Lo on us.

      2. colorfulone profile image87
        colorfuloneposted 16 months agoin reply to this

        I read your thought provoking post this morning, thank you.  Here is something that I'm sure you will find interesting, if you haven't read it already on Breitbart, its titled "Common Core roots lie in ties between Barack Obama, Bill Ayers".

        http://www.breitbart.com/big-government … ill-ayers/

        Of course terrorist Bill Ayer was the founder of the Weatherman and is a communist organizer.  Ayer and community (communist) organizer Obama began the "white privilege" hoax in the education system in Chicago.  Their focus isn't on education but on indoctrination into radical political ideas, and tribalism...of which began years ago, now we are seeing the manifestations of brainwashed angry, hate-filled Social Justice Warriors and Black Lives Matter.  The SJW are told they have to pick sides, and if they are not on the BLM side then they are "white privilege" racists. 

        I hope I explained that well enough, I'm sure you are aware of it already, but I'm learning.   

        ADDED: A news video with Inforwars anchorman David Knight explains this situation we have very well. 
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xmh7D_r4HA

        1. Live to Learn profile image82
          Live to Learnposted 16 months agoin reply to this

          Seriously? Seriously???? So, in your opinion, are we to assume you don't think Black Lives Matter? And, social justice is a derogatory term to you?

          1. RJ Schwartz profile image95
            RJ Schwartzposted 16 months agoin reply to this

            No lives matter more than any others - social justice isn't about equality, it's about reparations - everyone in America has the same rights - when people choose to live in such a way that society fears them then they will be treated accordingly

            1. Live to Learn profile image82
              Live to Learnposted 16 months agoin reply to this

              Social justice is not about reparations. It's about a fair and equitable world and if you think we all have the same rights and are treated equally.....take the blinders off and look again.

              1. profile image60
                maryjahn222posted 16 months agoin reply to this

                agreed ! I am not treated fairly. But then there could be many prejudices and discriminations involved. which one to choose ? #1 or #13 or #564 ?  oh, my my skin color is the main determinant ? or  my behavior or attitude ? or is it my poverty or wealth or costume ?  which ? why ? oh, why me !!???

              2. RJ Schwartz profile image95
                RJ Schwartzposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                We have the same rights - please show me rights blacks don't have that whites do.

                1. Live to Learn profile image82
                  Live to Learnposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                  I don't know. Maybe we have the right not to get shot by the police just because they can? There's ample evidence some black men haven't had that right.

            2. Credence2 profile image81
              Credence2posted 16 months agoin reply to this

              that is bs, RJ. "What people live in a way that society fears them?" Comeon, is it fear or racism?

              1. colorfulone profile image87
                colorfuloneposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                In every country where the government was overthrown it began with anti-cop demonstrations.  That's true. 

                Multi-billionaire George Soros brags about overthrowing governments and has an extensive list. He isn't the only one throwing money at the schools (and media) that brainwash and politically indoctrinate young minds to get them so angry that they cause mayhem in the streets when they are triggered by events.  Just push their buttons!

                1. Credence2 profile image81
                  Credence2posted 16 months agoin reply to this

                  I don't think we need to be so grandiose about this. Attention is being directed toward the inequity regarding law enforcement and the criminal Justice system from the BLM. That attention is needed and those that support this cause through their participation or financial support is OK in my book and  gets my 'Bravo'.    The fact that so many conservative types are intimidated by this movement means it must be a good thing. I say to them 'carry on'.

                  1. profile image60
                    maryjahn222posted 16 months agoin reply to this

                    who said:     " ok "  ?  ok until 5 police get shot dead because the 'movement' shouts loudly that they are not needed, until they have a personal emergency, meanwhile all police are 'obviously' racists and prejudiced...against only 1 small group of people - 13-14% of all in USA ? huh ?
                    still ok?   you get to be ok with whatever you chose but you speak not for any majority, i dink.

                    1. Credence2 profile image81
                      Credence2posted 16 months agoin reply to this

                      One man is responsible for the shootings and used the otherwise peaceful BLM protest as cover. Should I blame all whites for the Dylan Roof racially motivated shootings last year? We will always insist upon our Constitutinal right to peaceably assemble without all the participants being considered terrorists. Of course, I am not surprised that I don't speak for the 'majority that just as soon see this concern of ours swept under the rug, out of site, out of mind.

                  2. colorfulone profile image87
                    colorfuloneposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                    When you can step back and see it you will know its a total red-herring.

                    I want to see the government reformed for the better (not overthrown by Globalists), and the police force reformed.  I don't like this anti-police state that has been created by design by lunatics. 

                    http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13095661.jpg
                    After a 15 hour shift and likely the worst day of his life, this Dallas Officer had one thing in mind.

                    1. colorfulone profile image87
                      colorfuloneposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                      I am a believer in 'due process and local government' and thus the police.  So, if I have to pick a side, I am on the side of due process, not anarchy and destabilization...because then I can be apart of reform. I want the US to be a better nation that is apart of a better world. 

                      We are suppose to either side with the police or side with BLM.  I cannot choose a side in that because its a false paradigm. We have foreign multi-national social engineering programs (on record) that have been used all over the world to overthrow government and to destabilize regions...they are in-effect in scores of nations.  Globalists are manipulating our internal affairs to turn us against each other and start a civil war.

                      Divide and conquer.

                      So, when I think about which side to choose, its George Soros or our local government. Its the New World Order,... its Goldman Sachs, its JP Morgan, whose financing the anti-police groups, whose funding open borders, whose funding mass migration.   Obama actually announced 15 corporations led by Goldman Sachs and JPM that are bringing foreigners in themselves.  This country has been hijacked. 

                      George Soros has captained the destabilization in other countries and taken the credit.  Obama and Hillary are his pocket- puppets.

              2. RJ Schwartz profile image95
                RJ Schwartzposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                Is there a difference?  Blacks want people to fear them, blacks want to intimidate others, their actions scare people and when people are scared, they shoot first and ask questions later.

                1. Credence2 profile image81
                  Credence2posted 16 months agoin reply to this

                  Where do you get that idea, RJ? Sounds like a stereotype to me, completely unjustified and one of the reasons the Black community have problems with too many conservative types. Perhaps, that is why we are afraid to vote for Republican/conservative candidates.

                  1. RJ Schwartz profile image95
                    RJ Schwartzposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                    Absolutely not.  Be open minded because I'm not taking shots.  How many black gangs exist?  How many black entertainers are all about the "thug life"?  How many black athletes are about the thug life?  Seems as if all the role models for young black people are trying to live the life of being a bad-ass, gun toting, thug.  Isn't that behavior meant to intimidate other groups, mainly whites?  Why are BLM protesters threatening private property, closing roads, etc. if not to intimidate whites into getting their way?  The number of black conservatives is minuscule.  Most of the black community is making demands for respect that they have not earned.  I'm sorry, but intimidation won't get it done.  I'm not stereotyping - just calling the facts how most Americans see them - people are scared of blacks and blacks enjoy that power.

                    1. Kiss andTales profile image59
                      Kiss andTalesposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                      Really as I read your comment you are fueling the fire of hatred.
                      You say most as of color. You say and stereotype people by clothes,  you say all the things that would say you have a race problem.
                      Here's the thing most people in the USA are mixed , we have black, white , asian, indian, and many other races of blood through our veins.
                      The slave owners built a new society of citizens when they had children by their helping hands. The thing is you kill your own race when you say and stereotype any race we all are mixed.
                      Also we all are God's children made equal to live here just like any one else .
                      God gives life we have no right to say God has done wrong with color. It is a beautiful thing
                      And there is good in all races .
                      And bad as well .
                      But the one thing that matters the most is love
                      When we can not love our neighbors we can not nore will we know our Heavenly Father .
                      He created us all and is perfect. 
                      How can we say you he is less
                      No man can add a day to his life
                      But God can give it and return it.

                    2. Credence2 profile image81
                      Credence2posted 16 months agoin reply to this

                      Say it ain't so, RJ? While reading and responding that last outrage of a post of yours, I could hear a persistent "All in the Family" jingle in the background. Did you not say that you were from Idaho? What is it, some sort of 'last outpost' or something? Funny, I had a business meeting in Boise a few years ago, was I missing something? I guess whatever is going on there is in the back country, the bushes?

                      Confession is good for the soul, they say. So let's get it all out there. I am going to have to unsheathe my pen on you here, but I don't want no hard feelings.

                      Why are you basing your bias on visual and print media? It was all about watermelon rinds and fried chicken during the period just prior to my birth. Who would have believed that that represented Black folks? Surely, you are sophisticated enough to be aware that Tee-Vee is, rather than a window on the world, not much more than a fun house mirror? For you to say such ridiculous things would imply that you have never met a black person in the flesh.

                      You have been duped by the media portrayal of black people, do I really have to tell you that the vast majority of everyday Black people put their pants on just as you do, have to eat, work, etc, to survive?
                      The 'reality' is not what it seems. So, turn-off the television and interact with people for real. Every man, woman and child are entitled to respect on an individual basis, not just when you decide that it is merited. If this attitude of yours and others is a foundation of the 'Trump Phenomenon' then I promise you, there are not enough of you and you have lost, already. It may bring the circus to town in Idaho, but won't work anywhere else.

                      I lived and worked in rural Montana for 2 years during the 1980's. While the people there were fundamentally unbiased, they were ignorant. I told them that my very presence among them was explained by my need to eat. We all educated each other on the universal nature of the human condition and circumstance. No, 'it' does not rub off, and, no,  I did not know why Michael Jackson wore that silly sequined glove on his right hand, as I was not his valet. While, they all told me that they watched the 'Cosby Show' religiously, oddly enough, I never did. Everybody wanted me over for dinner to the point where I almost stopped buying groceries.  But, at least, they were not bigoted, when presented with evidence they were willing to change mistaken ideas. How much of that credit can I give you Trump folks?

                      Because of people with attitudes such a yours, there are not many black conservatives. For any black or any minority, for that matter, to embrace that sort of thinking would point to their psychosis. When you talk of most Americans, lets qualify that. What you meant to say is 'most Americans like you'.

                      Your fear and racism, is evident as anyone can smell it. I don't know why you are so afraid, the vast majority of the nation's wealth is in the hands of the white man? Are you all afraid because you may be aware that this is not sustainable? Is this why Trump rings your chimes? You all are spooked so easily at the slightest implication that change is on the way. You needn't worry, in spite of demographic changes making whites the minority later in the century, the dissemination of wealth and power will take longer, probably beyond our life spans.

                      Who do white sagebrush rebellion people intimidating with armed assaults on federal property? Just an example of the double standard of the arguments you present.

                      I suggest that you go back and rethink everything, I thought that you were better than this...

        2. ahorseback profile image78
          ahorsebackposted 16 months agoin reply to this

          Absolutely true , everything you said is true . This administration is absolutely the worse  instigator of hatred in America !    Isn't it ironic that the first black President  is the worst advocate  for a mature dialog on racism in America and at this time in America  !     I'm glad that it isn't against the law [yet ] to call out racism !  Especially when it comes from the white house itself.

      3. profile image60
        maryjahn222posted 16 months agoin reply to this

        Racism has run into creating riots, mostly by the 13-14% USA nationally Black, aka African-Americans tho most have never been to Africa nor their parents either. While of mixed colors on skin and riding an urban Metro train, I observed a non-fat ordinary looking man sitting across from me, with legs spread, taking up more than his ticketed fare. I thought to be clever and funny, so said “you are funny…did you know you are taking up 3 seats ?”
        [while our many homeless are careful to pack their property up tight into 2 seats  mostly].
        Instantly he blew up !!  yelling loudly at me, accusing me of saying this “only because I am black [repeated 4x] …you are OLD…blah blah…slavery [explained as if i had no idea it occurred ] ….victimhood [he was victim to my words and he was a slave...]…” 

        He continued shouting while I attempted to explain my statement w/o saying negative things about him, carefully.   Then 2 White men attempted to protect/defend him by entering into dispute asking me ‘why did you say that to him” taking up his accusation of my ‘racism’ ! I kept them each at bay by telling them not to interfere and he could take care of him [worse than that, actually ] and only when they realized they could not intimidate this elder women with wrinkles, they moved back into their spaces.

        This was made-up Racism in defense of excessive use of Metro seat space / how dumb is that ?   The outburst was intended to ‘tell –me- off !” and intimidate me & punish me.
        but since I am not afraid of Black men, having ‘lived in the community’ long time and know many with whom we have honest clear relationships, he could not succeed.

        But I was startled ! Racism hit me in a personal way when there was no connection I thought between his entitled-to-more-space-than-any-others and his skin color. Or was there ?
        I learned to become less friendly and less trusting of people of that color now. The result of just 1 man’s blasting against me for having talked to a stranger, without malicious intent but with informative actual observation openly stated.

        But that is Not allowed ! apparently.  Where do we learn about racism ? on Metro ?

        1. Credence2 profile image81
          Credence2posted 16 months agoin reply to this

          So, you ran into one eccentric nut, the exception is not the rule.

          1. profile image60
            maryjahn222posted 16 months agoin reply to this

            credence2  :   is busy defending everything blacks do, even the unhelpful to unity and enticing riots when protests are intended by their families.   So 'exceptions' can be dismissed, but not when they are bloodied or dead ? only criteria when exceptions are given elevated status ? huh?
            and how easy to dismiss anyone else's experiences, while pretending irrelevance to anyone else's lives but their own ? huh ? who is this claiming to know-the-realities and know-the-truth over all the rest of 'us' ? huh ?  get off the know-it-all-superior-stance trip, please.

            1. Credence2 profile image81
              Credence2posted 16 months agoin reply to this

              What about every thing whites do? Who is enticing riots, are you a rightwinger? I only hear such things from them. I don't make general assumptions about groups based solely on one experience. Is this what you are advocating for here? I am standing level, it is you that wants to descend beneath the muck with your arguments.

              1. profile image60
                maryjahn222posted 16 months agoin reply to this

                credence2:    a non-color-viewed person who  likes to sling mud, apparently, saying "it is you that wants to descend beneath the muck with your arguments."   

                thanks. just the kind of sly mentality that denies others' personal experiences but then claims to know all about ....only one side of any story ?  that's the same "muck" that comes around to those who sling it.

                done. you can have the whole floor - while acting like those who have to insult and demean to try to win their views as maybe valid. some of us dont 'decend' and not into 'muck' just because you would like to see us there.
                gone. easy.

                1. Credence2 profile image81
                  Credence2posted 16 months agoin reply to this

                  how did you think I would react with your "superior" comment. If you can dish it out, I haveto assume that you are able to take it.

                  The coversation is pointless, if you choose only to listen to your own echo.

                  You're incoherent, what are you talking about? One side of what story?

    2. colorfulone profile image87
      colorfuloneposted 16 months ago

      I am a humanitarian, that means that I am concerned about the welfare of people in general.  I have compassion for the BLM and SJW, and for people who like to 'assume' something other. 

      We are all God's children, and He loves everyone.

      1. Castlepaloma profile image63
        Castlepalomaposted 16 months agoin reply to this

        Religion is another authority war on humanity. Trump made that clear.

        The Universe loves you anyway.

    3. colorfulone profile image87
      colorfuloneposted 16 months ago

      A picture of people lining up in Baltimore to shield the officers from protesters! WHY DOESN'T THE MEDIA SHOW THIS?
      http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13096629.jpg

      They Get My Respect!

    4. Kiss andTales profile image59
      Kiss andTalesposted 16 months ago

      RJ racist hatred does not cut it either.
      This is what wars are made of .and people create it by the words you use inferior , superior.
      You have mentally put yourself in one of these categories. Through out history what was Hitlers final days like .
      Superior became nothing he committed suicide.
      That mentality does not work history proves it. Why repeat some ones failure.
      There is no future in hating our neighbors.
      But their is never and end to loving your neighbor.
      Only the peaceful people will  inherit this earth as written .anything else is doomed.
      Thats garenteed.

    5. Kiss andTales profile image59
      Kiss andTalesposted 16 months ago

      All life matters not just blacks all people matter .Yes its disturbing that people kill people. But did this just start happening. No ! It been happening all the time.
      I seen where this mother just took and at gun point killed her own freshly grown daughters. Horrible. Now you want to know the race ! White.
      This happen before these you posted.
      The point is dont get stuck on race and color . care for the human race we all are being attacked by satan and using each against one another.
      Why because he is a failure that is going to be replaced by Jesus Adminstration or rulership.
      Things happen but not what we actually see . its what we can not see with our eyes.

      1. wrenchBiscuit profile image85
        wrenchBiscuitposted 16 months agoin reply to this

        No, that is where you are wrong. The life of an evil racist "does not matter" at all. When a man has a cancer, he does not lament the passing of the cancer. He does not cry for the tumor when the surgeon cuts it out and removes it from his body. The cancer of racism in America has grown and multiplied over the last 500 years. And it has manifested itself throughout the world. You cannot beat the devil by laying down with the devil. We cannot appease a cancerous growth, we can only cut it out.

        1. Kiss andTales profile image59
          Kiss andTalesposted 16 months agoin reply to this

          The life of any individual is not ours to give or take.
          All surgeon's are not licenced to do surgery they may be just students or book students.
          But I am sure no one wants a Dr to opperate on his heart and he is a licenced
          Foot doctor.
          So if the evil man stands its God's responsibility to take care of the matter
          We created no human nore can we return a life.
          Its not our department.
          Doing God work by judging and pushing ahead of him is saying he is not capable of his doing his work.
          Its already written the wicked will be taken from the earth and he is the judge because he is perfect. We all are imperfect mentally and physically.
          But what I like about you is your love that good persons should not be harmed by evil wicked people. I agree.

        2. Live to Learn profile image82
          Live to Learnposted 16 months agoin reply to this

          This post reminds me of a thread someone else started. He was extolling the virtue of the British Empire. Maintaining the peace, he said. Relegating entire populations to the status of second class citizens I thought.

          But, if there are those such as yourself who maintain so much hatred toward other races that you cannot listen to reason and you call for the extermination of those races then, I have to wonder. Is subjugating a group of people who are so hellbent on violence a bad thing? If they cannot function in a peaceful manner within a civilized society, do their desires warrant an ear? Violence is not something any civilized society would like to see within its ranks.

          What makes some crave violence? What makes some search for reasons to hate?

    6. ahorseback profile image78
      ahorsebackposted 16 months ago

      To "Dad's " everywhere ,
      Hard to believe I know  but There are some things that cannot be blamed on the white race in America  ,     for instance , almost seventy percent of black inner city kids live  in a home without a father --------70 %  percent -------    That  number directly relates  to the amount of black teens charged with   crimes ,   that number also correlates  with the amount of  young unwed parents ,   that number also  is directly  related to the fact that FULLY  one third of abortions in America  are the abortions  of black  un-born children . 

      Are we not supposed to use facts , statistics  when reasoning ?    It didn't take me long to either  Google that up  OR to reason out the problem  with crime and ethnicities  and their solutions .

      White ,  Black , Hispanic  , Native or  Asian ,   want to keep your boys out of jail and alive ?  Want to keep your daughters  happy and leading positive lives ?  Take a hard look at your troubled wife  and find a reason to make the marriage work , GROW UP , and stay in your children's house .

      1. wrenchBiscuit profile image85
        wrenchBiscuitposted 16 months agoin reply to this

        What's really ironic onhorseback, is the fact that none of these "Sons of the Pioneers", including you, have made a peep about all the white people who are being killed by cops. In fact, being the majority, there are more whites killed by cops than any other race. Why aren't all of you good god-fearing, gun toting, Duck Dynasty watchin', Fox News lovin' white folk beating the drum about that issue?  Of course I know the answer, but I would really like to hear yours. I hope you don't try to suggest that all of the innocent , unarmed whites, (men and women) who have been murdered by Cops over the last several years were all thugs who deserved it. White Cops are Killing White Citizens! But the white majority simply ignores it.I am reminded here of the Tin Man, The Scarecrow, and the Cowardly Lion.

        1. ahorseback profile image78
          ahorsebackposted 16 months agoin reply to this

          Lets take this then as an answer then ,   YOU just answered the entire question of this debate .  Does this mean   we are all racists or all -not racists ?       Of course white people are  shot by cops ,  they always have been .      When I was a minor    there was a nighttime curfew  in our  city Pop. ,  5000  !
          At 9;00  PM   the town fire / emergency  alarm went off ,  this could be heard for miles .  But being 16 or younger  you had better be either at your own home , visiting at a friends  for the night  , or out with your parents Or  one of the three police cruisers  would probably find you walking on the sidewalk , hanging out with your buddies  or wherever  you were .     If they found you out after curfew   you would receive a ride either to the station  and or  to your home !     

          If you are reminded of the Wizard of OZ    , perhaps  its because you are seeing higher reflections these days ,be careful , you may be maturing ,  But then , that's the difference between those who constantly blame others for all the ills  of a society  and those who go out seeking their own shortcomings , finding their own  answers  to all the problems that ultimately and always  begin at home .

      2. Castlepaloma profile image63
        Castlepalomaposted 16 months agoin reply to this

        It is not about race. Your country or you are only as strong as your weakest link. Work more on your weaknesses and have a better outcome and balance.

        1. ahorseback profile image78
          ahorsebackposted 16 months agoin reply to this

          And you know this how ,  By Dropping  out of the US ?

          1. Castlepaloma profile image63
            Castlepalomaposted 16 months agoin reply to this

            I know your elistist don't care for the middle class or poor anymore and much worst is to come. 

            I work for the people, not mainly for the eliteist anymore. That was the big change and healthier purpose.

            1. ahorseback profile image78
              ahorsebackposted 16 months agoin reply to this

              So I'm an elitist ?   You know , It's funny how  I earn less than  most people in America - $ 20,000 ,  a year ,  yet  I tend towards the  conservative .    I knew something was really wrong with me.   

              There is no greater  "RACISM " in this world------ than those who blame virtually every  fault of their  culture  , their own ethnicity ,  their own family issues , their own marriage issues , their own lack of motivation ,on another  color of skin  .   Many in America  should be IN a race alright ..... a race to clean up their own house perhaps ?

              1. Castlepaloma profile image63
                Castlepalomaposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                You support these non caring elistist. If you were elistist you would not be trying to sort out problem like these online.

                Things are going to elistist plans. To overwhelm people by debt, then slowly depopulate them.

      3. dianetrotter profile image72
        dianetrotterposted 2 months agoin reply to this

        ahorse, I agree with you on the need for more fathers in the home in the inner city.  I saw the results for 20 years in the classroom.  It breaks my heart.  I feel that is a problem that requires more "touch" from Black people.  We left in pursuit of jobs. Urban Renewal went through and took the heart out of the community.  We should all be mentoring as many kids as possible.  I got in trouble at school for telling girls they should keep their feet on the ground.  School is for education not sex relations.

        Has anyone done a study of the percentage of Black people that live in the inner city.  Since "racism" is the topic, it that justification for someone to be racists.

        I told Wilderness that I bet he could name 3+ Black people with jobs, most not living in the inner city, that he knows from work, television, conducting business anywhere.  The total Black population does not live in the inner city.  Everyone in the inner city does not match the description you laid out.

    7. ahorseback profile image78
      ahorsebackposted 16 months ago

      As to Hub Page censorships , that's simply a" flag '  by those offended by too hurtful a truth !   You have to understand the elitist  mind of liberally  extremist educated people worldwide ,   If they cannot win  by outshouting , out-screaming , out insulting everyone around them , Flag Em !

      Hey ..........It's Far Better than trying to mature !

    8. Rock_nj profile image91
      Rock_njposted 2 months ago

      Is someone with a mixed race background racist in some ways?  Racism or any prejudice means you judge someone based on an attribute, instead of the true nature of the person.  Not everyone falls into this way of thinking in some ways.

    9. Credence2 profile image81
      Credence2posted 2 months ago

      Ok, boys and girls, the topic was lynching and I can state that there were simply more in the southern states, regardless of the race of the victim.

      The unfortunates of the south during the period identified with lynching issues were not even accused of a crime, just looking "the wrong way"

      http://www.chesnuttarchive.org/classroo … state.html

      The numbers should make it clear which group bore the brunt of the lynching phenomena....

      1. GA Anderson profile image84
        GA Andersonposted 2 months agoin reply to this

        Hi Cred, I admit I did not follow your link, but I did not have to because I agree with your point. I do believe there were more black folks lynched in the South - just because they were black folks.

        But, as the point was originated; what does that have to do with today's problems?

        Because of what I perceive as a familiarity of your perspective, and a high opinion of your intelligence, I would much prefer to see you arguing for a progressive view of Blacks in America's future, than trying to justify today's social demands using the measure of history's mistakes.

        We, (white folks), were bad then, and we are not perfect today. Accept it. Get past it. Let's talk about the future. The KKK, White Supremacists, and the Neo-Nazis are not the future - and I think you know that. We are not all racists.

        GA

        1. Credence2 profile image81
          Credence2posted 2 months agoin reply to this

          Without a doubt, GA, everyone posting on this thread are intelligent people, there is  just a difference in perspective that I hope to make clear here.

          First of all, I did not start this, but I am probably gonna finish it. My initial response to fellow hubber L to L was a conciliatory offering on my part in this intense discussion. That is on page 1 of this thread and it was over a year ago. In that, I made a one statement about lynching in the South, which was true.

          MizB thought that I was attacking the South generally, based on this statement. Thus, her comment directed at me a day or two ago.

          First of all, slavery in the American culture is without peer America’s biggest crime against its residents, with the imposition on First Nations people, a close second.
          -------
          “Diane, I have a history minor, and my sources would be any U.S. history book with a chapter on the wild wild west, post Civil War. 1870-1890 or so. That would be white on white atrocities or white/Native American atrocities, but I guess that doesn't count in modern-day thinking. That was the context of my question. It seems that American descendants of warring Northern Europeans inherited their ancestors' genes, but Southern whites bear the brunt of the blame. Also these same history books write of certain African tribes selling into slavery members of the weaker tribes. Maybe modern-day history books have written this part out. I studied history in the late 1950s and early 1960s so that was a long time ago.”
          --------
          Is this your idea of a ‘dose of reality’? The statement is full of inaccuracies. It smacks of bias and misunderstanding. No one said that Slavery was unique to the United States, but the vaunted claim of equality of man and the rule of law is. I don’t know about the relevance of gene pools and all of that. But, when it comes to the issue of lynching, it is crazy to compare its occurrence in other states outside the South as anything other than an aberration or anomaly, when it is obvious that only in the South has it been used as form of terror and intimidation for a large part of its population. I would not want to compare the Nazi era holocaust to a bully that steals my lunch money. We cannot ignore sheer magnitude and perspective here, can we?  None of this has anything to do with modern text books as opposed to older ones. The truth is the truth.

          So many people are suggesting that we do away with past and look ahead, solely. That does not work. We can’t talk about forgiveness and healing without folks at least honestly acknowledging what did in fact occur. This is to avoid sugar coating, apologists, etc.

          As for fellow hubber Ken, he says that there is a rough parity between indentured servitude and slavery. He is giving the impression that indentured servitude was worse than slavery. The fact is that there were far fewer indentured servants than slaves and regardless, they were working off a debt and have never really been seriously seen as property.

          Fellow hubber, Diane, as a professional educator, mentions the politically motivated revision of standard textbooks. So, the Civil War did not have slavery as its primary cause? The term ‘worker’ is to replace the word ‘slave’ to describe the Blacks held in bondage during the antebellum period. I have heard a great deal about this myself and I am not pleased. More avoidance, apologists, instead of acknowledging the crime, just makes it disappear. Or, perhaps say, it really was not so bad, the implication one would expect when the term ‘worker’ is used.

          I also recently conferred with another hubber who suggested that discrimination in American life is separate from the concept of racism. Just look at a drinking fountain photo and you can see ‘separate but equal’ in reality. This stuff is fresh from Plessy vs. Fergerson, and has since been overruled.

          It is hard to let bygones be bygones, when so many attitudes are in a state of denial. My grandfather was not punched in the nose, but instead ran into a fist or two? My forgiveness hinges on acceptance of the truth as a prerequisite.

          Among other things, I am a Star Trek fanatic. In several episodes they refer to racism and race prejudice as primitive thinking. Well, when the time comes when we can have that universal attitude in the way we look upon the witchcraft trials and the concepts of warlocks and spells of the 17th century today, then I no longer need to have to look over my shoulder anymore.

          As for the state of Black people today and how we move forward, the idea is to truthfully acknowledge that the unacceptable has happened and to continue to pursue justice in a way that is taking us away from the past, not back toward it. What do I have with Trump, Jeff Sessions, Steve Bannion, etc? The bones can never stay buried as Trump and Charlottesville reminds us all that exhumation is still possible.

          In the 23rd Century……………………………..

          1. GA Anderson profile image84
            GA Andersonposted 2 months agoin reply to this

            Hi Cred, in reference to that "dose of reality," it was my perception, (right or wrong), that the the lynching point was relative to the South and its African American population.

            Mizbejabbers point about the wide-spread use of lynching throughout the West gave context to the discussion. As for the inaccuracies you mention, I am not informed enough to recognize them. But... I did find this blurb from a book about them;

            "Accounts of lynching in the United States have primarily focused on violence against African Americans in the South. Ken Gonzales-Day reveals racially motivated lynching as a more widespread practice. His research uncovered 350 instances of lynching that occurred in the state of California between 1850 and 1935. The majority were perpetrated against Latinos, Native Americans, and Asian Americans; more Latinos were lynched in California than were persons of any other race or ethnicity."
            Source: Lynchings in the West

            This does seem like an indication that lynchings outside of the South were more than "an aberration or anomaly," and I wonder if the addition of instances from our other Mid-west pre-state, pre-law and order territories would bolster the point.

            To return to your point of my misunderstanding your comment, you are right, I should have referred back to your year-old contribution - rather than misjudge your comment by the context of these more recent responses.

            I am not one that says the past should be forgotten in deference to looking to the future, but I do maintain that we should let the past be the past, and step forward into the future without it as a ball and chain that must be dragged with us. I am also not one that thinks discrimination equals racism, even in the face of the true racism in your examples. I think I could provide equally chilling examples of discrimination that had nothing to do with racism, but I don't see that as benefiting either of us, I can understand that from your personal perspective the two are the same.

            GA

          2. Live to Learn profile image82
            Live to Learnposted 2 months agoin reply to this

            I think the First Nations people would have a valid argument against the claim that what happened against them was a close second. And, I would have to agree with them. Driven from your lands as opposed to being sold out of them is (in my mind) worse. Systematic genocide, as opposed to systematic enforced servitude, is worse. Future generations being snuffed out by the simple fact of killing entire villages and nations, is worse than systematically enslaving a people.



            I don't know that anyone would argue that point. I think we all agree on it. Nor do I think anyone would disagree that more blacks were lynched in America than any other ethnic group. I think what most people are attempting to point out is that the rule of law was ignored and extrajudicial justice was enacted on others so lynching was not unique to crimes against only the black community. Was it wrong? Of course it was. But, it was wrong across the board.



            I'd love to hear your examples of where others are attempting to do away with the past. Maybe, examples of insisting that holidays be renamed, like was just done in California? Statues are toppled? To me those are prime examples of attempting to begin the process of erasing the past. Examples of attempts to begin the process of erasing them from the collective memory.



            And it is hard to continue to have sympathy for a group who consider it hard to let bygones be bygones when nothing was done to these individuals. Your grandfather was punched in the nose? Goodness. What does society owe the second generation past that one? And, honestly. Who owes the grandson an apology for an angry punch to the grandfather?



            The nation, as a whole, has truthfully acknowledged that the unacceptable happened. But, I get the impression that what constitutes justice is not universally agreed upon. Every list I've read, thus far, penned by anyone within Black Lives Matter shows me that no one is truly seeking any form of justice and, I believe that any attempts to appease this mentality of self pity and denial would only give rise to more self pity and more demands.

            The most recent list I read was asking for white people to will their property to poor blacks. Asking white people to build free housing so poor blacks could live there rent free. For white people to give up their homes to poor blacks. Would justice, in your opinion, be obtained? Or would that (as I believe) simply continue to perpetuate poverty and a desire for more hand outs and 'reparations'?

            1. Credence2 profile image81
              Credence2posted 2 months agoin reply to this

              This is a very subjective observation, but I stand by my position. The Indians Wars were just that, Wars. At least the men had an opportunity to fight and defend themselves. They were, as the losing party, consigned to the reservation and rough scrabble lands. At least as a man, before being overrun, I would have had an opportunity of relieving a few of my enemies of their scalps.  American slavery, reduced people to animals, with whites breeding blacks like cattle. What was worse than being a prisoner and even worse than death, having to grin before master’s face while he rapes your wife and sells your children? With the First Nations, at least families were kept intact and they were prisoners, not animals. The First Nations folks lived on subsistence, but as any for prisoner of war, the pickings were slim. They did not have to work themselves to death merely to provide bounty for master and his family as an added insult. They did not have to consider that their progeny was condemned in the exact same way for the foreseeable future, when wars eventually end and even the vanquished are at least given a chance to live as human beings. The psychological factors slaves had to bear with playing the ‘slavery’ game were so much worse than any experienced by a free man or even a prisoner. Compare Auschwitz with the county ‘lockup’? In the finally analysis, Natives were still people even when vanquished, that is a considerable improvement over being treated as animals and property, don’t you think?

              I never said that Blacks were the only ones subject to the crime of lynching, but if you look at the studies, you will see that most lynchings occurred when associated with a crime. Many for a crime that today would not merit capital punishment, (horse thief). But, only in the South and in regards to blacks was lynching used as a universal form of terror and intimidation that had nothing to do with committing ‘a crime’. If a Black man was in economic competition with whites, or looked a white woman or who simply was not sufficiently deferential, that was grounds for a lynching. Where did that happen in the ‘old west’, or how often? And we can’t forget about the mutilations of the bodies, people burned and flayed alive, with their genitalia mutilated.  Can you imagine that anyone can hate that much? So, I think that these facts ratchet the crime of lynching up a notch or two.

              Maybe we all get tired of folks telling Blacks to move on and forget that American slavery had happened. You have your flags, monuments and commemorations. You have a statue to Stonewall Jackson in the town square, is it not a constant reminder of the Civil War conflict with reverence to the side that lost and all that it believed in? Maybe, when you get rid of all these painful reminders, then you can have room to talk? Don’t expect me to forget and move on, if you can’t. When you go to Germany, and I have been there, you don’t see monuments to Erwin Rommel or Hermann Goering. The trappings of Nazism and the Third Reich have been expunged from society so that all of its victims and their progeny are able to move forward in German life without having to consider them. That is a fine example of true remorse. How about America following that example, if you are really serious about letting bygones by bygones?

              I know that slavery occurred well into the past and as I have said earlier, it has no effect as to my current paths. The issue is not about anybody owing anybody, it is about the truth. You miss the point about the grandfather, it is not about a debt it is about admitting that, yes, and you did hit him. I am pissed about people who will rewrite the history to claim that slavery was not so bad. You want to romanticize it with ‘Gone With The Wind’, aka, ‘the happy darky’. Then we have “Birth of a Nation” whose theme was the justification of slavery. But, let’s bring it into current times, changing textbooks to provide apologists with excuses for slavery and thus mitigating its significance as the cause of the Civil War and downplaying the catastrophic effect to Black people which continued at least  a century after its abolition. No, L to L, I am not going to forget that. I can forgive that this had happen, but have the respect for me and mine to not lie about its true nature.

              I don’t think the nation has come to grips with what has happened but is in a state of denial. Justice is admitting that it DID happen. I have seen the 10 points that are the foundation of BLM and no one is talking about reparations for slavery, but it is about justice in regard to police conduct in the black community and trying to bring attention to the disparities between whites and minorities in the criminal justice system. Those 10 demands are a reasonable start for me. No one can change what happened 150 years ago, but I will be damned if I allow certain people to continue to tell me that I exaggerate the true barbarity of the “peculiar institution” in American history.  Nobody is asking Whites to give them anything except the TRUTH, don’t lie to me. There is your bias showing, always speaking of Blacks in terms of ‘hand outs and reparations, when you look in closely in the mirror, you can see all the ugly things that I have been assaulting conservatives about for so long. This is certainly a prime reason why healing between us will continue to be difficult. Why should I believe, with attitudes like this, that most of you are of good will?

              1. Live to Learn profile image82
                Live to Learnposted 2 months agoin reply to this

                Credence, no one wants to forget that slavery happened. Nor does anyone want to forget what happened to the First Nations people.. Although if we actually had a discussion on the First Nation people I think that history shows they were not the first. They just happened to be those who inhabited the areas last prior to the European invasion. I do find it interesting that you accept that what happened to the First Nations people was war. It was not different from events played out through history. One people over running real estate previously inhabited by others. But, I don't think you understand all of their history. If you did you would understand that they were viewed as animals, at times; less than human at others. The atrocities committed against them were, by today's standards, crimes against humanity. Just as the atrocities committed against blacks were.

                It was a different time. A different place. No one is who they were back then. Putting something into the past does not equate to forgetting it happened. No one should forget. We should understand how and why it happened. But, it happened to other people. Not you or me. I will never quite understand how slavery can be perceived to effect you any more than I could understand if I felt tragically touched by finding out I had an ancestor who had been gutted publicly, in front of a cheering crowd, somewhere inside the bowels of England. Because I choose to understand that it is history, not current events. No one wants to be an ignorant Affleck and pretend that 'their people' could not have been a part of it. But, it appears that sentiment is not held by some within the black community. They appear to want to pretend that they were a part of it. Your ancestors suffered public humiliation and degradation. They suffered persecution and pain. They were your ancestors.

                I will say that I do wonder about your point about the First Nations fighting to maintain their freedom all the way until they were beaten and put on reservations. Do you ever wonder why some fight and some don't? This isn't a critique of slaves it is a question that appears to span throughout history. It is a question I ask every time I see a nation or a group being subjugated and denied basic freedoms.  Do you think you and I would live a life in captivity without huddling together over whatever warmth we had during a cold winter to plot our freedom? Once free, whether by our choice or by others waging war in our defense; what would we do if we found ourselves then relegated to the state of second class citizens? Would we stay, or work our way to places where that was not the norm? If we had stayed, once laws were put into place which demanded equal treatment under the laws what would we teach our children?

                I think of the people in our community who chose to put their children in the schools for whites prior to the end of segregation. I look at those kids who are now older adults. They, nor their parents, ever had a belief that anyone owed them anything other than equality and a chance. They, compared with those who are demanding that they be given something because somewhere in the past someone was treated poorly, are happy and self sufficient. Those who constantly demand they were wronged, deserve some hand out as proof of it, do not appear to be on the path of equality and acceptance. They appear to be mired in something self destructive which they refuse to stare in the face and, instead, want to throw it into someone else's lap to resolve for them.

                1. Credence2 profile image81
                  Credence2posted 2 months agoin reply to this

                  First of all, I want to say how I appreciate your conciliatory response and that you, personally, are not the focus of my ire. This message is for everyone. The example is that of that standup comic, perhaps you remember who used to always smash a melon on stage? Well, I smash the melon and you happen to be in the first row. So, may I offer you a plastic protector?

                  No, I couldn’t understand all aspects of the imposition on First Nations folks. But as part of any war, the enemy is painted as less than human, “the eternal Hun”, the wily Japanese, or the clownish Italians. There had been a Geneva Convention that most of the combatants adhered to, that is better than what was afforded to the slave as designated property or an animal. What rights relative to anything did he have? And as I said earlier, this is a very subjective topic, who would want to be either a Black slave or a vanquished Native warrior? But, from I understand about each circumstance, I would take my chances with the latter.

                  .
                  Are we really different? Were it not for years of bloodshed and tireless litigation, would you be as repentant today? Let me make a point, how we got here and why we are here is not as simple as drawing a line saying this happened then and that what is now has no relation to that. Let’s use the Natives as an example. Of course, neither you nor any of your Anglo friends had anything to do with the forced relocation, stolen land and burned villages. But, what of those Anglos who did create an advantage for themselves, acquiring stolen property that they used to carve 50 states and accumulate wealth and opportunity for themselves and THEIR PROGENY. How many of you today are really willing to give the land back to atone for its theft? We all know that there is no practical solution to apply here no more than that for the Aboriginal people of the Australian continent, or African American slavery. But, it is so easy from where White folks sit to tell the Native American, ‘get over it, that was the past’.

                  As for Black folks, who as slaves provided centuries of unrequited toil so that someone else can benefit, because neither they nor their family nor descendents were given the right to enjoy the fruit of their labors. Lincoln promised 40 acres and a mule to the new freedmen. And, I really believed that had he lived, as the honorable a man as he was, he would have followed through, thus giving the people a foundation from which to build their own wealth and future for themselves and succeeding generations. But, with Lincoln’s successor, it wasn’t to be as he would rather reward traitorous secessionists and former slavers. Blacks really did not become first class citizens in the country until well after the middle of the last century. So, looking at that, how long have WE been free to pursue the idea of going as far as our talents would take us?(40-50 years). How truly short a time for people to say, ‘we are all even now’? In recognition of that structural disadvantage, even Richard Nixon introduced and supported Affirmative Action during the 1970’s, so how much whining did I have to listen to from Whites in regards to this program?











                  I would have been proud to have been a part of that fight to the death as I least I was given an opportunity to strike a blow against the enemy. Good question about the slaves. The network within the South that supported slavery was as daunting physically as well as psychologically. You were discouraged from trying to escape with the fear of death or dismemberment always in view. You had your family, which may be all you had in the world, for as a long as you could stay together. It was hard enough for you to just escape by yourself. The master just might sacrifice your ability to do useful work as a slave to put fear in the others to think twice before trying to escape.  You were outnumbered with freedom being almost impossible to reach on foot without being detected and captured. There were a few savage slave revolts, but they only worked when all the variables fell in the right place for the plotters. As seen in WW II concentration camp footage, people will go through extreme lengths just to have another day to live in the hope that they would survive to see a change in circumstance. If I tried to run, I would have resolved to myself, that I would not be captured alive.


                  We are not African and even with those who meant well suggesting a return to Africa by newly freed Blacks, that was no longer possible. Being centuries removed and racially intermingled, we are not African, but American. So we were right to stay and fight for the rights that first class citizenship afforded us, regardless of the price.

                  We are still in the struggle when I constantly hear conservatives refer to hand outs in reference to Black people. With so many whites on welfare and receiving services, that complaint has no moral weight and rings hollow. It is just another form of Black bashing. We are constantly reminded much from the rhetoric of our current President, to the underpinnings of events like Charlottesville that it is going to take time to heal these wounds and that only time combined with people determined to not reopen them will constitute the ultimate solution.

                  1. Live to Learn profile image82
                    Live to Learnposted 2 months agoin reply to this

                    Just a point. I'll read the post through more thoroughly later, but I am not repentant. I don't know what I would have to be repentant about. What have I done which would cause you to think I needed to be? When I say our nation that isn't me any more than when you comment on slavery you are referring to you.

                    It's the past Credence.

                    1. Credence2 profile image81
                      Credence2posted 2 months agoin reply to this

                      Repentant was the wrong word, awareness and understanding is better

                  2. Live to Learn profile image82
                    Live to Learnposted 2 months agoin reply to this

                    Credence, I think dehumanizing the slaves was similar to dehumanizing the 'enemy' of the First Nations. It is easier to justify many things if one thinks the person on the other side isn't really a person. And, yes I think my attitude would be unchanged primarily because my parents shielded us from the troubles of that time. We did not know color. Did not perceive difference. As I've said I didn't even know anything of it unti
                    l I was in high school. Was it there? Yes. Looking back I see it was. But, our parent's went out of their way to prepare us for the way the world was supposed to be, not the way it was and I appreciate that effort they made.

                    I think it is interesting that you appear to know that reparations is not doable, in regards to the First Nations. I will point out that I don't consider it to be warranted. But, that is another conversation. I do think it is telling that you don't see it for one group but appear to be demanding it for another. Again, I think a First Nation proponent would disagree with you and I would tend to believe they had a valid argument.

                    Also, what many within the black community fail to realize is that the majority of any whites during the time of slavery were not owners. It is guestimated that 5% to 25% of southern families owned slaves. There was more to the United States than the South.  So this belief that all people who share a skin color (many of whom are descended from people who immigrated after that time) are somehow responsible for the actions of 5% of the people who lived in one region of the country is ridiculous.  Lincoln gave a head nod to an idea of 40 acres. I believe Sherman made some statement that the army would loan some mules. The fact that it didn't happen does not hold as much sway as the fact that treaties were made and broken. So, if you don't think broken treaties are of any importance why do you think this is?

                    Either way, I think my main problem with complaints from blacks about wanting to be somehow repaid for things that happened in the past does boil down to statements such as yours which admit that their is no practical solution to one past atrocity but insist there is a practical solution to another. Why? Because you would financially gain from the one, and not the other. It tends to minimize the value of your argument.

                    1. Credence2 profile image81
                      Credence2posted 2 months agoin reply to this

                      I had this one image come to mind, the one where the master of the plantation had the little black child at the bottom of his feet as a foot warmer. Rather than be forced to look at the master every day, I will take my chances in the rough with the Natives. The problem with your example, L to L, is that the exception is not the rule. If everybody was raised the way that you say that you were, we would not need to have this conversation.

                      I won’t say that reparations are not warranted more than they simply are not politically palatable in this day and age for events that occurred so long ago.  For the freedmen, they would certainly have been warranted for former Black slaves just after the Civil War ended. I never said that reparations were the appropriate remedy for any group in this here and now, and too much time has passed to even warrant it now. But at one time, reparations were both warranted and should have provided to both groups. I cannot speak for a Native American man in my shoes, and I could understand if his opinion was different.

                      My information puts that percentage of Southern Families across the south who owned slaves at an average of 32 percent, as low as 20 percent in Arkansas and as much as 49 percent in Mississippi.

                      http://www.history.com/news/history-lis … ut-slavery

                      But an entire region of the country had a vested interest in maintaining slavery even if they were not of the planter class. Such, to the point that they were willing to fight for the right to continue the practice. Well, I knew the reason even before I officially checked; the simple fact is that racism trumps economics. Every white had an interest in seeing that the Blacks as slaves ‘stayed in their place’. You did not have to own slaves to respect that.

                      Some of the explanation for this is here:

                      https://deadconfederates.com/2011/05/04 … stitution/

                      I still say that Lincoln would have followed through on that promise of 40 acres and a mule. But, as in your example of the thousands of treaties the white man broke with the Natives, the vengeful unreconstructed southern white man would have found away to relieve the freedmen of that advantage, as well.

                      Let, me repeat, there is no practical solution to either atrocity. I just wish people would acknowledge it for the atrocities that they were, and the serious nature as to how the lives of generations of people have been affected because in that sense, it is not over. I am just fine, it is just when I go to a family reunion or read about debacles like Charlottesville that I am reminded of how whole groups of people were ripped off. And because of the passage of time, nobody can be held to blame. But none of that changes the fact that slavery occurred and the Natives were routed on their own soil, and that both figure in to our current circumstances that we find ourselves in here, that I will say.

                    2. dianetrotter profile image72
                      dianetrotterposted 2 months agoin reply to this

                      I try to say "white people" and "Black people" because it humanizes those you are speaking of.  When you say "when black people do ....." it sounds like all Black people are saying, in unison, whatever it is that you dislike.


                      Until we had this discussion, I can't remember that last time I heard ANYONE, regardless of color, speak of reparations.  Hearing someone or a group of individuals speak of something that upsets you should not be held against an ethnic group in totality.  I don't look at the KKK, neo-Nazis or any group saying, "We want our country back" or "You can't take our place.", and become angry with white people.

                      People have the right to say what they want to say, even when it gets on our nerves.  Throughout my professional care, I had to develop that discipline.  As a Christian, I must learn to be controlled by the Holy Spirit. 

                      Nothing a person or group of people says should make you upset about the whole group.  How many Black people, or what percentage of them, do you actually hear talking about this.  It is definitely not a topic of conversation for anyone I know or deal with long enough to have a conversation.  It should not be used as an excuse to dislike an ethnic group.

            2. dianetrotter profile image72
              dianetrotterposted 2 months agoin reply to this

              Live said
              "The most recent list I read was asking for white people to will their property to poor blacks. Asking white people to build free housing so poor blacks could live there rent free. For white people to give up their homes to poor blacks. Would justice, in your opinion, be obtained? Or would that (as I believe) simply continue to perpetuate poverty and a desire for more hand outs and 'reparations'?"

              Response
              I haven't heard of this particular list  It seems to be from a person/group expressing their own opinions.  It should not be an excuse to say Black people want to live at the expense of white people.

              Investment/inheritance is the real issue.  Slaves suffered, worked, and died for white people to be enriched.  When they were freed, they walked away with nothing.  There was supposed to be "40 acres and a mule."

              Impact to day is that white people have "old" money to pass down to their kids.  When I started working at Hughes Aircraft, in my 20's, white parents were making the downpayment on their children's houses, paying for their education, and helping them to start businesses.

              It is impossible to do reparations now.  When they should have been done, they weren't.  That is the major reason for the disparity.

              1. Credence2 profile image81
                Credence2posted 2 months agoin reply to this

                Thanks for adding the additional point, your voice to the chorus.

                1. dianetrotter profile image72
                  dianetrotterposted 2 months agoin reply to this

                  I appreciate the fact that you guys are talking to each other.  It is a productive discussion.  I'm enjoying reading.  Keep talking!  TY!

              2. Live to Learn profile image82
                Live to Learnposted 2 months agoin reply to this

                As to the 40 acres and a mule. Sherman did not have the authority to give land and a mule. It was an empty promise on his part. And, the Freedmen's Bureau was to help former black slaves and poor whites in the South in the aftermath of the Civil War. Pretty sure I had some poor white relatives in the South. Where's my mule and 40 acres? I'm not looking for it. Why?

                1. dianetrotter profile image72
                  dianetrotterposted 2 months agoin reply to this

                  Freedman's Bureau was not based on them being poor, as I understand it.  It was an infrastructure outside of the established system to allow them to do banking and financial accountability.  Poor whites didn't need it becau'se they could use what was already in place.

                  While I don't believe that white people should be repentant, I feel compassion would be appreciated.  The problem comes from generalization or perceived generalization and inclusiveness.  There is no way for me to empathize with Native Americans because I have not personally experience what they experience.  I can't even imagine myself going through what a slave went through.  I did see the impact on my mother and others who were afraid of white people.

                  I  got my first job because, Ida W. Moose, a white woman, had compassion with my plight.  When I first met her, I was ready to take a shorthand test.  She said, "That's ok.  I already heard about what happened to you."  That changed the whole course of my life.  I got a job for which I was well qualified.  She didn't "give" me money.  She gave me confidence and a sense of self respect.  I was in the 12th grade.  She told me I write at the college level.

                  I worked for Ida Moose through college.  She allowed me to hire my friends for temporary work.  I wrote several articles on Hubpages about Ida Moose.  She passed away June 20, 2014.  I haven't been able to write about her passing.  I will always love and remember her.

     
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