Trump Lies, Distortions, and Deceptions About Coronavirus
This forum is to catalogue the many lies, distortions, deceptions, and misinformation Donald Trump has made about his administration's effort to combat the coronavirus. He is doing his damnedest to make you think is doing a 10 out of 10 job when, in fact, it is more like 3 or 4 out of 10 (yes, I will agree he has done a few things right). But the things he has done wrong has COST LIVES, lots of lives - and people should know.
People need to know that Trump is deceiving you. Feel free to add your own but include a date and a quote.
I'll start off with the first one from today.
"We have made great progress with the antibody testing, fantastic progress," Trump said at a media briefing April 5. - NO "we" have not. There is only one FDA approved antibody test available now and the FDA has taken off controls for the production others, many of which can't tell the difference between a cold virus and a COVID virus.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/14/health/c … index.htmlOn 4/14/20, in defending his very deadly decision to not fund the World Health Organization Trump said ""I don't talk about China's transparency," Trump responded. "You know, if I'm so good to China, how come I was the only person, the only leader of a country, that closed our borders tightly against China?" - That, of course is a lie. He has praised China and China's transparency on several occasions in January, February, and March.
Backtracking on a claim the previous day that he has "Total Authority" (he does not) over governors regarding reopening their states to business, on 4/14/20, Trump said ""I will be speaking to all 50 governors very shortly and I will then be authorizing each individual governor of each individual state to implement a reopening, and a very powerful reopening plan, of their state at a time and in a manner as most appropriate." - AGAIN, misleading. He does not need to "authorize" something the governors can legally do in the first place.Yesterday's Trump Show was something else to see, Scott. You can tell he's getting really desperate as his world falls down around him. He's getting ruder by the day to those asking questions he doesn't want to respond to, as if he wasn't rude enough already.
This is the second Chloroquine study that says that Trump's hyping missed the mark by a lot. https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/15/health/n … index.html
ON 4/15/20, Trump fired off another series of lies, false claims, deceptions, and misinformation.
1. "His language got tougher on Wednesday, when he said the administration is reviewing "the organization's (WHO) cover-up and mismanagement of the coronavirus outbreak." - While the WHO did fumble its initial response to the pandemic - but not as badly as Trump has - there is no evidence they tried to cover anything up; Trump made that up.
2. At Wednesday's briefing, the President repeated his claim that he inherited a "bare cupboard" of medical supplies to fight coronavirus from the Obama administration." - The "cupboard" was somewhat bare in 2016, true, but Obama had set up a robust response mechanism for the next pandemic which Trump largely dismantled. His statement is doubly disingenuous because Trump knew the cupboard was bare in 2017 and did nothing to replenish it plus he had been briefed on how to respond to the nest pandemic, which he ignored.
3. "At this moment, nobody needs them (ventilators) We have to remember, during the surge, nobody's needed them for weeks now. But we'll have them for stockpiles," - That is simply a pair of lies.
4. Trump repeated his false claim for the third time that "On Wednesday, Trump said, "If we're not happy, we'll take very strong action against a state or a governor if we're not happy with the job a governor is doing. We'll let them know about it. And as you know, we have very strong action we can take, including a close-down."
Asked what he meant by "a close-down," he said, "We have the right to do whatever we want, but we wouldn't do that, but no -- we would have the right to close down what they're doing if we want to do that. But we don't want to do that. And I don't think there'll be any reason to do that. But we have the right to do that." - No, he doesn't
5. Another oft-repeated false statement ""Nobody can take advantage of our farmers. We have a lot of money we've taken in from China, we're going to be distributing that money from Sonny (Perdue) to the farmers," Trump said. "And there's tremendous money, over and above that, that money was paid directly into the Treasury of the United States. This has never happened to China before. They never gave us 10 cents. Now they're paying us billions of dollars and we appreciate it." - Again, simply a series of lies. It is American businesses and American taxpayers who pay the tariff taxes, not China - everybody knows that.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/15/politics … index.htmlPerhaps, in the interest of completeness and fairness, you should include the lies being presented about Trump's actions? Like the ones you've made here?
Feel free to list the "lies" in Scott's post, Dan. Are you saying Americans aren't the ones paying the tariffs, and the Chinese are?
"there is no evidence they tried to cover anything up; Trump made that up."
"Obama had set up a robust response mechanism for the next pandemic which Trump largely dismantled"
" That is simply a pair of lies. (that no one has needed the extra ventilators)"
Have at it.You avoided my query re the tariffs, Dan.
Trump did dismantle the response mechanism and called it "streamlining." He also had three years to replace the emergency supplies need for a pandemic he was warned might be coming.
He also didn't follow the pandemic playbook written in 2016 by those medical professionals who had the knowledge to compile it.Simple -
1. Since there is no evidence that the WHO covered anything up, Trump had to make it up.
2. "The Global Health Security and Biodefense unit — responsible for pandemic preparedness — was established in 2015 by Barack Obama’s National Security Advisor, Susan Rice ( here ). The unit resided under the National Security Council (NSC) — a forum of White House personnel that advises the president on national security and foreign policy matters.
In May 2018, the team was disbanded and its head Timothy Ziemer, top White House official in the NSC for leading U.S. response against a pandemic, left the Trump administration, the Washington Post reported ( here ). Some members of the global health and security team were merged into other units within the NSC, the article said."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9& … 42G8Wus4kA
3. Outbid and Left Hanging, States need Ventilators - https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal … SKCN21S20D
I see Wilderness dodged Randy's point about Americans paying the Tariff taxes.Absolutely. No evidence of WHO hiding things or simply taking the word of the Chinese for everything even though it was pretty obvious from the start that their story was neither truthful nor complete. Of course, we're hearing from all over the world that is incorrect, but hey - it allows a good bash, doesn't it?
Yep. And Trump largely dismantled it...by getting rid of a handful of administrators that the people there agreed were not needed as the unit was too top heavy. No, the team was NOT disbanded.
Not a single person in this country has gone without a ventilator when one was needed. So where is the need for another hundred thousand? So NYC can hoard them in warehouses "just in case"? Obviously a false statement, then.
(Don't know what tariffs have to do with the corona virus. Just another bashing effort, then, which I'm not very interested in as we see hundreds all the time. Much like yours - either completely false or so grossly exaggerated as to be useless.)No, you simply want to avoid admitting Trump lies about the tariffs regularly. You apparently believe him....
"Don't know what tariffs have to do with the corona virus. "
You want to change the topic from "Trump lies dostortions and deceptions about coronavirus" to "Trump lies about tariffs", have at it. Not interested.Apparently you didn't read the original post from Scott you responded to, Dan. You challenged the veracity of the OP, but failed to mention number 5 in Scotts OP.
But try to act as though it wasn't there to begin with. I understand....It's simple really, Wilderness - Trump brought the subject up during his coronations briefing, so I called him out on the lie.
Take your issue up with Trump, not me.What was the title of this thread again? Oh yes - "Trump Lies, Distortions, and Deceptions About Coronavirus"
I don't believe that Trump put that title there...Stay on topic, Randy, and you might get an answer. Deviate to "TRUMP LIES" and you won't get much from me as I've heard those exaggerations far too many times to be interested.
Sure Dan, you'd be glad to say Trump lied about the tariffs if it was only on topic.
I made none. In any case, this is about the President of the United States lying to the American people. Nothing less and nothing more.
BTW - here is the TRUTH about why the "cupboards were bare"; the Trumplicans (formerly Republicans). President Obama asked for the money to replenish the stockpile and Trumplicans who controlled Congress said NO!.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/ob … RO?ocid=stWait. Obama asked for money and "Trumplicans" (who did not exist then) said NO!?
You've been taking lessons from Trump, haven't you? Or will you spin it so that anyone not agreeing with your philosophy, now or at any time in the past, just has to be a "Trumplican"? Still a lie, spin or no spin, though.What philosophy. Just pointing out facts, I guess you have blind spots in your ability to read. You keep missing critical words that other people write and then make false statements as a result.
Exactly what does "Trumplicans (formerly Republicans)" mean to you when I am talking pre-2017? Seems to me the obvious meaning is former Republicans, who are Trumplicans today, PREVENTED Obama from filling the cupboards. That last phrase, of course, was the important point which you ignored.Yep. Just pointing out facts. That nonexistent "trumplicans" said "NO!". Just facts, for sure.
"Exactly what does "Trumplicans (formerly Republicans)" mean to you when I am talking pre-2017?"
It means, to me and any other reasoning person, that you are again lying and spinning facts into what they are not. That you are playing word games to once more bash Trump (and anyone not of your political persuasion), even though he wasn't even on the scene then.And again you ignore the important point that Obama tried to replenish the national stockpile and was stopped by the opposing party. Why is my terminology more important to you than the fact the Obama was prevented from doing the right thing and that Trump is lying about it today??
Seems to me your priorities are all screwed up.It wasn't Republicans--now Trump cronies--who blocked Obama's refilling the cupboards, Dan? I understood completely what Scott was saying. Apparently you didn't, or didn't want to.
Oh, I understood him all right! Anyone remotely connected to Trump, or recognizing any good things Trump accomplishes, is a vile Trumplican. In addition, anyone from the past that promoted anything Republican is a Trumplican as well.
Just another good swing at the President, nothing more. It Fitted in quite will with the title of this thread: "Bash Trump at every opportunity, and if you can't find one, make it up!".Then you tell us why Obama didn't refill the cupboard, Dan. Are you saying it wasn't the republicans who prevented this from happening?
How in the world would I know? I don't have your private crystal ball that tells you what other people are thinking.
"Republican" has nothing to do with it (you're trying to change the subject again): it has, and has since mentioned, to do with applying the label "Trumplicans" (derogatory, intended to demonize Trump and anyone not on the "bash Trump" bandwagon) before Trump appeared on the scene. As such it is just another word play, meaningless outside of just another swing at the President.You don't need a crystal ball, Wilderness; just an ability to read and accept the facts as they are presented to you such as what was in that ProPublica research.
FUN FACT - The latest estimate is that the GDP will fall to -0.3% growth. The question is, would it had fallen as much if Trump had acted faster?
IMO, yes it would have, and probably more deeply, had Trump recognized the problem early on and did what South Korea, Iceland, Singapore and some other countries did. BUT, there would be far few cases and far fewer dead people had he been competent. We would be in a deeper recession sooner, but would have gotten out of it sooner as well and recovered faster than will be the case because he dilly-dallied, failed to do the proper testing, and tried to open up the economy too soon"BUT, there would be far few cases and far fewer dead people had he been competent."
You are assuming that abject poverty and a failed economy will not produce deaths in an of itself. This is quite false, as evidenced over and over throughout the world. At the same time you are assuming that we can hand out money indefinitely, money we don't have but simply printed out of thin air; this, again, has shown to be false over and over in world history.
We are all playing a guessing game here, and all have differing opinions. But it doesn't add to the equation when one makes assumptions or ignores the reality of history, as you and those promoting an indefinite shutdown are doing."You are assuming that abject poverty and a failed economy will not produce deaths in an of itself. This is quite false, as evidenced over and ...." is another one of your famous non-sequiturs. It has nothing to do with the lead-in sentence.
I recognize that Trump as occasionally done something right. Does that make me a Trumplican? No! A Trumplican is somebody who defends Trump beyond reason. Trumplicans overlook his lies, his misogyny, his racism, his incompetence, is mental illness, his erratic behavior, his criminal behavior.
You overlook these things which makes you a Trumplican. I do not which means I am a rational person.
ON 4/16/2020. "Trump said some states could be ready to enter phase one of the reopening process as soon as Friday because, when it comes to coronavirus, "you have states without any problem." He added that some states are "at a point where there is almost nothing" in terms of coronavirus cases, and that "you have states with few cases and those few cases have healed." - Both of those claims are Lies. No state, at this point in time, meet the criteria to get into Phase 1. And ALL states have active and growing number of Covid cases and Deaths each day. It is true, however, that in some states, the RATE of growth is slowing.
Have you included those people getting well, out of the "infected" classification, when you claim that the growing number of covid cases is still rising? Or are you still counting them as a "covid case", whereupon it will grow for another 10 years?
Same thing for death tolls; is the death rate, per day going down or are you counting every death as an increase?In total numbers, I look at total deaths or cases. But what matters is if 1) there are new cases/deaths each day and 2) is the rate of change accelerating or decelerating or remaining relatively constant
No state has a zero rate of increase in either cases or deaths. A few states like WA have a low rate of increase of around 2.8%. Other states like Utah have a low, but increasing rate of growth. Some states have very high rates of increase like SD at 16%
You can see how each state is doing here
https://hubpages.com/health/Coronavirus … d-Fictions4/16/2020
Trump’s False Claims about Pelosi and Chinatown
President Donald Trump is making false and exaggerated claims about House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s Feb. 24 trip to San Francisco’s Chinatown. Pelosi urged people to shop and eat there at a time when tourism was suffering because of the novel coronavirus, which originated in China late last year.
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/trump … chinatown/No, what matters is the increase/decline of new cases every day. More, even, than the number of deaths each day.
NYC, for instance, is seeing a negative first derivative when looking at new cases by day. That means that there are fewer and fewer new cases each day, even though the total number of cases continues to increase (the slope can never go negative on that graph).
Graph the number of new cases each day. When the slope turns negative it means we have a handle on it and are "winning", if that term can ever apply when people die. Unfortunately, time is an issue, and even the two week period we're trying to use is barely (if that) sufficient to truly get a handle of what we're experiencing.
The graphs in your article only refer to cumulative cases, and can never either level out (unless the virus is completely eradicated from the face of the earth) or especially decline. As such it is not of much value in determining when we should risk going back to "normal" (or an unreasonable facsimile thereof).Wilderness: Here is my graph of the whole U.S. that I have been tracking since March 29. It shows the Active, Recovered, Fatalities, and Totals for the whole 21 day period. Since it was started on March 29, it is a magnification of the top of the curve. The yellow line represents the totals so far. Notice, there is no appreciable flattening of the curve. My sources are the CDC and the WHO. If you can't read it, use the zoom control in your browser to enlarge it. Blue is active; red is recovered; and grey is fatalities.
Again, the cumulative total, particularly for the entire country, is not the indication we need to look at to see if a state or smaller locality should open things up some.
That requires looking at a graph of the new cases each day, for the past 2 weeks or month, of that area. Trump, I believe, has said 2 weeks, which is minimal but perhaps the best we can reasonably do.
Using your graph it will undoubtedly be months before it "flattens" (read: has what you consider to be a low enough slope, but unspecified, not "flatten"). Which means Montana, Alaska, Idaho and the smaller population states must maintain controls because Louisiana has entered the "growth" stage. Doesn't make sense.
If we use your graph, and draw a line across the tops of the blue markers, we can see that the "active cases" has very nearly stabilized. Certainly it is not growing as fast as it was. Still, it also shows that Louisiana (just an example, not actual) is growing while NYC is declining, giving rise to a slope that is still quite positive. Does that mean that NYC has not crossed the high point and is going down? Certainly not - it means that other parts of the country are still in the "upswing" phase.
Not sure what your yellow line means: Active + recovered + fatal? That will never come down for as Active falls, recovered + fatal rises.Wilderness: Thanks for your comments. I changed the bars to trend lines. Notice any one of the three variables will affect the slope of the total. Therefore, the Total trend is a function of the three variables. Notice between April 13 and 14, the active cases flattened and so did the Total trend line.
4/17/2020 “LIBERATE VIRGINIA, and save your great 2nd Amendment. It is under siege!”
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/t … cna1186586Better as it is a little easier to see.
But still think you're barking up the wrong tree, for what matters (relative to re-opening the country) is not how many have died or even how many active cases there are, but how many new cases are found each day. Locally, not country wide, and I still don't know what the "total" line represents.
Consider that the "active" line is indicating how many people, right now, are sick from getting the virus a month ago. We don't care for a month (or more - some are hospitalized for as long as 2 months) is too long to wait. We need to know how many are just now getting sick, for when that number falls consistently for a couple of weeks it's time to consider re-opening at least a local area or state. Fatalities also has a rather large problem, for (hopefully) we're learning how to treat those that are ill, with the result that fatalities (hopefully) will fall regardless of how many are sick or have been sick for a while. Using a falling line there could easily result in re-opening too early.Wilderness: Those lines are plotted daily. Here is the data table for each day for the four variables. If you want to do the math to see the delta change, subtract one day from the previous day. What I am interested in the flattening of the total curve. You are interested in the difference of the day-to-day change. I might be able to do it in Excel. The top row is Active; next is Recovered, next is Fatal, and then Total.
That's what I'm saying - you're looking for a low, but undefined, slope of the blue line. Forget the others - the blue one is the only one that matters. It cannot reach a zero slope, ever, for we are stuck with this virus for years to come if not forever and there will always be a few cases somewhere, just as we see with the common flu. It can only get low, but you haven't given any thoughts at all about what "low" means to you, whereas if the new cases daily are plotted when the slope goes negative (for an acceptable period of time), any amount, we're obviously winning.
Another problem is that the slope of that line lags far behind, in time, what is actually happening today. It includes cases a month or more old cases (likely a majority of them) and that is irrelevant to the question being asked as to when to open. This, too, is important for we desperately need to open our nation again; we can't simply wait until we feel totally safe. We WILL see additional cases, and fatalities after opening and must accept that it is going to happen.
Plus, of course, you're only looking at the nation as a whole, while the only pertinent information is what local conditions are. We are NOT going to treat every town, city and state identically, based on the worst case seen; not a single person anywhere is advocating that.I follow the following on a US basis as well as state-by-state basis.
1. Total Cases (and national deaths) (plotted)
2. The daily percent increase
3. The 10-day moving average of the daily increases (plotted)
4. The 1st difference between daily increases (the number of new cases)
5. The 2nd difference between daily increases (acceleration-deceleration)
6. The 1st difference of the 10-Day MA (acceleration-deceleration)
To meet one of the guidelines to get to Phase 1, the 2nd difference needs to be negative for 14 straight days.
What makes those number, mine included, somewhat meaningless is because of the huge lack of testing, we have no idea of the total new coronavirus cases that occur daily and how it has actually spread. One study being done in Santa Clara, CA suggests there are 50 times as many COVID cases out there than the statistics show. How are they learning that? Antibody tests which show 50 times as many people who have the antibodies than should have.
Bottom line, our charts are plotting a myopic view of history. What to look for now, however, is an increase in new cases in about 15 days has these protesters get sick and spread it to many other people.
During a recent coronavirus briefing - "As millions of Americans begin their second month under lockdown, President Donald Trump is rewriting the history of his coronavirus response. In doing so, he is giving the public an inaccurate and cherry-picked retelling of what he did in the pivotal early months.
As part of this effort, during Monday’s, 4/13/2020. daily coronavirus briefing, the White House played a propaganda video describing Trump’s “decisive actions” to deal with the pandemic. After facing questions about why the video omitted nearly the entire month of February, the White House followed up on Tuesday, 4/14/2020 with a series of talking points about his “strong action” during that month. - THAT isn't really true
I'll let this article articulate why
https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2020/04 … nnotation/Just curious, but do you spend you days searching diligently for dirt to fling at your president? Do you make any attempt to try and determine truth, or just accept exaggerations and spin as gospel?
This one is yet another such lie, for Trump did not sit idly by and do nothing in February. THAT isn't really true.You seem to spend your days making up excuses for Trump's idiotic words and actions, Dan. You and a few other enablers on these forums try explain away anything he says as being taken out of context or simply avoid admitting when he lies daily.
What did he do in February of such import? We still don't have enough tests for those who want to be tested so they can return to work.Nope, it only takes a few minutes to find more facts about Trump's pathological lying. As YOU well know, there isn't ONE false thing I have presented so far.
BTW, did I say T"rump did not sit idly by and do nothing in February. " ? No, I did not. - As unusual, YOU MADE THAT UP."THAT isn't really true <that he took action in February>"
Seems pretty close to me.
""We have made great progress with the antibody testing, fantastic progress," Trump said at a media briefing April 5. - NO "we" have not. There is only one FDA approved antibody test available now and the FDA has taken off controls for the production others, many of which can't tell the difference between a cold virus and a COVID virus."
I'd say that having even one, when we had zero a couple of weeks ago, is "great progress". You will, of course, disagree even though it is far above what we DID have.
As far as ANY of the tests being allowed "many of which can't tell the difference between a cold virus and a COVID virus.", well, such a statement would be all the better for proof. Frankly I don't believe you; you are stating that the FDA is knowingly allowing the sale of fraudulent tests and I don't think they are. Though they must carry a warning that we have not checked them for veracity, that is a far, far cry from allowing the sale of tests that we know do not work.
(You do understand that those tests, known as "titers" do not check for the virus but for antibodies? I assume you do, and that you are simply careless with your terminology, but if I'm wrong then you are intentionally trying to convince a reader that antibody tests are worthless; an outright lie).Again you dissemble, Wilderness. Trump said he took "SERIOUS action" in February. As the accompanying article clearly shows, he lied. He did NOT take Serious action.
Yes, I do disagree. Having just one does nobody any good now does it. Nor does having just one type make the kind of "great progress" that Trump is exaggerating about. In fact, a couple of weeks ago, there were at least three products out there, only one of which was FDA approved in any form. Now there are several that have some sort of FDA approval. Where did I say the "FDA is KNOWINGLY allowing the sale of fraudulent tests?" If anybody said that, Trump said that.
https://www.fr24news.com/a/2020/04/fda- … arket.html
The fact is, "great progress" happens ONLY when effective tests are available when somebody wants one and we are far, far away from that. Remember, Trump LIED many weeks ago now that if you want a Covid test you could have one? Well, that STILL isn't even close to being true.
Where, exactly, was I being uncareful with my terminology? I think all I did was quote your role model. Also, where did I try to convince ANYBODY that the antibody tests are worthless. It seems to me Trump was falsely doing that. As USUAL you are making things up again.
Whoops, I meant "As Usual You Made That Up"
"President Donald Trump's latest coronavirus press conference on Saturday afternoon was littered with false claims about both the pandemic crisis and various unrelated matters Trump decided to talk about, from North Korea and Iran to Chinese tariffs."
ON 4/18/2020, Trump claimed - ""Now they're giving you the other -- it's called 'testing, testing.' But they don't want to use all of the capacity that we've created. We have tremendous capacity ... they know that, the governors know that. The Democrat governors know that. They're the ones that are complaining," he said." - A few lies packed into a few sentences. "They don't want to use" is a LIE. The fact is, they CAN'T use the capacity because they can't get swabs and reagents. Also, it is NOT only the Demcoratic governors complaining, it is Republicans as well.
""In speaking to the leaders of other countries this morning, they said this is incredible the way you've done this so quickly," Trump said, without naming any foreign officials. "You know, we're only talking about a few weeks since everybody knew this was such a big problem." - This is another common LIE from Trump. It has NOT been a few weeks since people knew this was a big problem. Trump was told multiple times starting in January this was going to be a pandemic, yet he took little action until later March.
""We started off with a broken system. We inherited a broken, terrible system. And I always say it, our cupboards were bare. We had very little in our stockpile. Now we're loaded up." - Actually, Obama left a robust system which Trump partially dismantled and underfunded. Trump DID NOT ensure the stockpile was full even though he had almost four years to do it.
"Speaking about testing for the coronavirus, Trump said, "I inherited broken junk." This is a claim he has made multiple times, and which we have fact checked multiple times as well." - The faulty initial test for the coronavirus was created during Trump's administration in early 2020 by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Since this is a new virus that was first identified this year, the bad tests couldn't possibly be "inherited." "He is lying. He is lying 100%. He is lying because he is trying to shift blame to others, even if the attempt is totally nonsensical," Gregg Gonsalves, an assistant professor in the Department of Epidemiology of Microbial Diseases at the Yale School of Public Health, said of an earlier version of this Trump claim.I covered this one already but needed to add some more FACTS to show Trump is Lying.
""Now they're giving you the other -- it's called 'testing, testing.' But they don't want to use all of the capacity that we've created. We have tremendous capacity ... they know that, the governors know that. The Democrat governors know that. They're the ones that are complaining," he said." - Trump is calling OH Gov Dewine, MD Gov, Hogan, NE Gov Ricketts Democrats since they have all complained about the lack of testing.
Here are other non-Covid lies Trump decided to tell during his Covid rally.
"He claimed that as part of the Iran nuclear deal, the US agreed to give Iran $150 billion dollars." - No we didn't! We unfroze Iran's own money - Big Difference.
"He also doubled-down on the idea that China is providing the US several billion dollars in tariffs, arguing that the Chinese, not Americans, are paying the tariffs on imported Chinese products." - Trump Lies again about this. It is the American public and American businesses who foot the bill from the tariffs.
This is a new lie for me "Trump also alleged that President Obama wanted a relationship with the North Korean leader but that Kim Jong Un refused to meet with him." - There is no evidence (and would be totally out of character for a real US president) that Obama tried to get a meeting with Un. Instead, President Obama said many times he would not meet with Un.Yes, I was laughing at Trump's falsehoods yesterday as he keeps doubling down on them despite they are known lies. His supporters don't care if he lies with many of them following suit as we can see on these forums.
A new tranche of lies, most of them repeats:
ON 4/19/2020, Trump said, speaking of the reagents for the tests - ""We're in great shape. It's so easy to get." - That is a flat out LIE. If they were, governors would have them. Republican Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan said on CNN's "State of the Union" on Sunday that his state is experiencing shortages on both swabs and reagents; Hogan said, "to try to push this off to say that the governors have plenty of testing, and they should just get to work on testing, somehow we aren't doing our job, is just absolutely false."
"If people feel that way, you're allowed to protest," President Trump said. "I watched the protest, and they were all six-feet apart. I mean it was a very orderly group of people. And but ... you know, some have gone too far, some governors have gone too far. Some of the things that have happened are maybe not so appropriate." - Another blatant LIE which I observed myself. While a few maintained 6 feet, most did not. I will be looking for spikes in Covid cases in about 10 days in my data.
"In a heated exchange with CBS News White House Correspondent Weijia Jiang, Trump said "I did a ban, where I'm closing up the entire country." Trump referred to these restrictions on travel from China and parts of Europe as "bans" multiple times throughout the briefing." - Trump did not close up the entire country. It's also misleading to call the travel restrictions Trump announced against China and Europe a ban because they contained multiple exemptions. Only foreign nationals who had been in China, Europe's Schengen area, the UK or Ireland within the past 14 days are outright banned from entering the US.
'While discussing the impact coronavirus has had around the world, Trump said, "nobody ever thought this could have happened, a thing like this," in reference to the coronavirus pandemic." - Another LIE MANY people knew this was going to happen and they told Trump about it from mid-January on.
"Speaking about testing for the coronavirus, Trump said, "Look, I told you, we inherited a lot of garbage." He added, "We took -- they had tests that were no good. They had -- all the stuff was no good. It came from somewhere, so whoever came up with it. " - Nope, Not True. Why? Because the coronavirus was new; there was nothing to inherit, lol. "He is lying. He is lying 100%. He is lying because he is trying to shift blame to others, even if the attempt is totally nonsensical," Gregg Gonsalves, an assistant professor in the Department of Epidemiology of Microbial Diseases at the Yale School of Public Health"
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/19/politics … index.htmlLet's start today's set of Trump Lies with one I watched yesterday.
ON 4/20/2020: "A reporter reminded President Donald Trump that he held campaign rallies in February and March. He responded by suggesting he didn't recall these rallies -- and saying that hasn't left the White House in "months" except for a coronavirus-related trip to Virginia in late March.
Trump's laughably obvious false claim about his travels was one of several false claims at his White House coronavirus briefing on Monday."
TRUMP on Testing - "Trump claimed people are talking about the need for more coronavirus testing because they want to damage him politically, paraphrasing their supposed thoughts as follows: "'Testing, testing. Oh, we'll get him on testing.'"
Later, asked why he sees the bipartisan outcry over testing as a personal attack, Trump said, "It's not bipartisan. It's mostly partisan." - "The Republican governors of Ohio, Nebraska, Maryland and Massachusetts, Republican Senate health committee Chairman Sen. Lamar Alexander and other Republicans have all spoken in the last week about challenges obtaining testing materials or the need for more testing." - Yes, Partisan, all Republicans, lol
On travel BANS again: "Trump said: "We put on a ban of China where China can't come in and before March we put on a ban on Europe where Europe can't come in, so how could you say I wasn't taking it seriously?" - 1) they weren't 'bans' but restrictions with many loopholes; 2) China was in January; 3) Nothing in February; 4) Europe, less the UK and Ireland, was in March; 5) UK and Ireland were included later in March.
Non-Covid related Lies yesterday - "Trump said that the US used to have a $500 billion trade deficit with China, citing this figure as evidence of how he believes the US has been taken advantage of economically under previous administrations. Trump claimed before he took office, China "came in and they took $500 billion a year for many years, anywhere from $200 (billion) to $550 billion a year out of our hides." - The HIGHEST deficit recorded was $381 billion. The overall trade deficit has grown substantially under Trump.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/20/politics … index.htmlYes I saw him trying to recall his rallies in those months after he "shut things down." He seemed surprised when asked about them and then angry afterwards. Does he think people can't remember this stuff?
ON 4/5/2020 Trump lauded hydroxychloroquine, he said: "We bought a tremendous amount of … hydroxychloroquine, which I think is, you know, it’s a great malaria drug. It’s worked unbelievably, it’s a powerful drug on malaria. And there are signs that it works on [coronavirus], some very strong signs. And in the meantime, it’s been around a long time, and also works very powerfully on lupus. So there are some very strong, powerful signs, and we’ll have to see. Because again, it’s being tested now, this is a new thing that just happened to us, the invisible enemy, we call it.
… It’s a very strong, powerful medicine, but it doesn’t kill people. We have some very good results and some very good tests. You’ve seen the same test that I have. In France, they had a very good test. But we don’t have time to go and say, gee, let’s take a couple of years and test it out. And let’s go and test with the test tubes and the laboratories. We don’t have time. I’d love to do that." - A larger VA study just found the 1) hydroxychloroquine didn't work and 2) it killed some people. So much for Trump's strong push for Miracle Cures."Link, please, to a published, peer reviewed, large scale double blind test of hydroxychloroquine and the corona virus?
Best I can find is this statement in connection with the VA test: "There certainly are a lot of disclaimers with this study, which studied only 368 patients, was not peer-reviewed, and was not randomized — and we’re not sure of the ages of the patients or any underlying morbidities — but at least it’s something to offset the many anecdotes from doctors and even patients themselves who say it’s been a lifesaver."
So, at best, it was an indication that it may not work. Hardly the same thing as your off the wall, wild claims that 1) it doesn't work and 2) it kills people. Is this just more gross exaggeration (along the lines of what Trump does), or was it just a lie (along the lines of what you claim Trump does)?Trump has a lot of international backing in that regard. Trump has unified the entire world!
Rembrain: Please tell me how an agenda of economic nationalism unifies the entire world? Whether you realize it or not, this is what Trump's plan is and he is taking his advice from Steve Bannon. Look him up.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_nationalism
Yet you buy Trump's false claim based on a tiny study in France. Give me a break Wilderness, stop being hypocritical.
The VA study was a bust
Brazil stopped their study because of risk of death
No other study reaches the accolades you and Trump give to it.
BTW, I didn't make the claims, the VA did. Of course since they disagree with Trump, they are lying. lol,
https://www.dw.com/en/chloroquine-is-in … a-53188219
The bottom line there are clinical trials are needed to be finished before you and Trump continue to advertise the benefits of this treatment. But for some reason, a lack of good evidence doesn't stop you.You're right - the VA was a bust. Outside of showing we need more tests, your claims are not shown to be true.
You didn't make the claim? "A larger VA study just found the 1) hydroxychloroquine didn't work and 2) it killed some people. So much for Trump's strong push for Miracle Cures." If that didn't come from you, where did it come from? I don't believe the VA said "So much for Trump's strong push for Miracle Cures." - that can only be from you.
Yes. We need more clinical trials to support your claim. The claim that you made, just as Trump did, without sufficient evidence to support it...except that Trump made it crystal clear that it was a possibility that it might work, while you made it crystal clear that it is a fact that it kills people. For shame.
I'd be interested in seeing the copy/paste of where I gave accolades to the drug as a Covid-19 cure ("...accolades you and Trump give to it".). Or is that just another lie, just as you claim Trump is doing?So, Wilderness, you believe that the VA DIDN'T say that the chloroquine wasn't effective and that they experienced a higher death rate? You need to go back and read the facts rather than making things up.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/21/health/h … index.html
Your blindness, Wilderness, is truly awe inspiring.
A "possibility"??? Is that why he said "take it, what have you got to lose?" There is a whole minutes long montage of Trump pushing this "possible" miracle on his true believers.
"What have you got to lose?" - How about your life!! Why don't you go and take it?And your desperation to bash trump is just as awe inspiring.
Who did the VA administer it to? Terminal patients that they couldn't help any other way? Did the chloroquine cause the deaths or were they "scheduled" to happen in any case? Did they do a double blind test, or did doctors know full well who had it and who did not? Who did the peer review, and where was it published?
You know as well as I do that all of these are pertinent, and important, questions...yet you won't consider them in your efforts to show Trump a liar, for you don't care. Just that you have something that you can twist into Trump's fault and detriment.
It is almost comical, or would be if circumstances were different, how hard you try to demonize your President, while committing the exact same actions you are so upset about when he does it.
As far as the VA saying chloroquine caused deaths as you carefully insinuate...no, I don't believe that any more than I believe they said "So much for Trump's strong push for Miracle Cures.". Although you seemed to attribute that to them with your italics, they did not say it.
They VA did an "anecdotal" test, not a true study of the efficacy of chloroquine. They simply tried it on a small selection of patients - they did NOT take the steps to provide an actual study. And they know that, just as both you and I do - they are also smart enough to understand they cannot make claims about their test which they cannot support, which you apparently do not. Or at least you would have your readers believe that you don't understand that, but again I'm not sure I believe that either, for I think you are fully aware of what such a study would require. You just don't want the reader to know that it was never intended as a scientific study of the efficacy of chloroquine on the Covid virus, for if it was it ruins your whole rant.
(You never did give a copy/paste of my accolades of chloroquine - did it slip your mind or did you give up on that tale?)1. I can't copy and paste everything you wrote, the sum total of which is total agreement with anything Trump claims - including chloroquine
2. What "desperation"?? I don't have to even come close to breaking a sweat in finding things Trump does which effectively Bash himself. There is hardly a day goes by (and sometimes even an hour) where he doesn't do something reprehensible that needs to be called out.
As to the VA test, it was hardly "anecdotal" as you wrongly call it. It was true clinical trial with control groups. For the third time -
https://www.contagionlive.com/news/prep … h-systems-
Please admit you are wrong and stop trying to rewrite history like Trump does all of the time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GuNbGC2D_8
Here is today's installment of Trump Lies from yesterday.
ON 4/21/2020 Trump MISLEADS with "Trump was responding to a question about how the federal government would retrieve funds from large companies securing loans through the Paycheck Protection Program, which were supposed to be for small businesses. "Harvard's going to pay back the money. They shouldn't be taking it. ... I'm not going to mention any other names, but when I saw Harvard, they have one of the largest endowments anywhere in the country, maybe in the world, I guess. And they're going to pay back that money." - In fact, Trump's ignorance gets in the way here - Harvard did receive funding from the coronavirus relief money, but Trump didn't distinguish between two separate sources of federal funding within the CARES Act coronavirus package -- the Higher Education Emergency Relief Fund and the Paycheck Protection Program. The relief fund is primarily meant to provide financial relief grants to students. The paycheck program is a set of loans meant for small businesses, which Harvard never applied for or received
On Protests (to help more people die) - ""And I've watched some of the protests -- not in great detail, but I see that. And they're separated...a lot of space in between," Trump said. "I mean, they're watching, believe it or not, social -- they're doing social distancing, if you can believe it. And they are. And they're protesting, but they -- the groups I've seen have been very much spread out. So, I think that's good." - Trump has "selective seeing". I have seen lots of footage on different protests and saw very little in the way of purposeful "social distancing".
Again with the Lie about the trade deficit with China - "Trump repeated his frequent claim that the US trade deficit with China used to be as high as $500 billion: "I even asked the leaders of China, how -- how did this ever happen? Where our country loses tens of billions of dollars a year. And I don't mean just tens. Take a look: $200 billion, $300 billion, $400 billion, $500 billion a year. How did they ever let a thing like this happen?" - First, the deficit has not been as high as $400 billion, let alone $500 billion. Second, ANY economist will tell you there is nothing wrong with 99% of all trade deficits; they are a function of free-trade between nations.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/21/politics … index.html4/22/2020 Trump Campaign Takes Pelosi’s Words Out of Context
https://a.msn.com/r/2/BB130AIK?m=en-us&ocid=News
Here is a unbelievable beauty from yesterday that highlights Trump's lack of mental acuity (and ability to speak coherently)
ON 4/22/2020 - "We don't want to rebounds after all this death -- death -- that we've suffered," Trump said. "Not work -- I don't view it 'work'; I view it [as] 'death' that was unnecessary. It should have never happened. It should have never left that little area where it started. You know it and I know it and they know it." - I am not sure how to be polite after that abomination, so I won't say a thing ... I don't think I need to.Yes I heard this bit of rambling from the stable genius. And his supporters claim Joe has problems speaking.
Using UV light as a treatment!!! - O, man. if it was not so serious I would have died from laughter.
"Loose Lips Kill People"- while #Trump didn't actually push to ingest #disinfectant, his words were so ill-chosen #lysol was forced to warn people to NOT drink their product to protect against #Covid_19!!
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/24/business … index.html
Where UV lights (of the proper wavelength) are useful is killing virus's on surfaces (not your skin), mail, groceries, etc. One of the two wavelengths that kill virus is safe for skin, but the other, the more common one, is not. I bought each of my offices one to use.Anyone that thinks drinking cleaning products is good for you has far more problems than listening to Trump. Blaming Trump for the idiocies of such people is ridiculous - you cannot cure stupidity, and neither can you be blamed for it.
I disagree, anyone who suggest someone drink or inject disinfectants can be blamed for being stupid.
It is like Wilderness trying to hold Jim Jones blameless for the killing of his flock.
From now on it will be "Drinking the Trump Lysol" instead of the kool-aid, Scott.
And like Esoteric to deny any responsibility of the flock. Regardless of your liberal philosophy that only you know what others should do for they are but children in your eyes, it is not true. People DO have a responsibility for themselves and their actions...including drinking the Kool-Aid.
And therefore you hold Jim Jones (and Trump) blameless.
You also, by the above comment, don't beleive:
- Advertising works - That companies waste billions on it.
- Brainwashing is real
- Propaganda works - That Himmler was a fool in even trying
- Demagoguery works
- That some people aren't wired to "follow the leader""And therefore you hold Jim Jones (and Trump) blameless."
Nice try. Now can you produce a copy/paste where I said that? Or even insinuated it is true? Or are you simply putting words in my mouth (again) that never came from me?
That is not the point. Wilderness, and you know it since you are deflecting so badly. While it is true many Trump supporters take Trump's words as gospel and will suspend their common sense and drink the Lysol as he suggests, it is HIS UTTERING that suggesting as President of the United States that is so - well - Stupid and dangerous.
No, there was no deflection. You just skipped over the point without ever seeing anything but TRUMP LIES!!!
You may have decided, under the control of your TDS, that anyone not bashing Trump on a daily basis is stupid enough to drink Lysol, or inject it. This is patently untrue, and anyone that stupid (of either party, with or without TDS) has far greater problems than Trump or anything he says.
It may be the Liberal mantra - that all people are but children, incapable of making reasonable decisions - but there is no truth in it. Just an excuse for controlling others to the maximum extent possible.- TDS. So you resort to referring to the left as having the fictional Limbaugh and Hannity mental disease when you make excuses for the man-baby?
No surprise! Wilderness: As I said before, you have to forgive Trump for being a stable genius. He has led a very sheltered, privileged, entitled life. I would bet you dollars to doughnuts, he has never entered a grocery store or a hardware store in his entire life. Therefore, he has no idea what he is talking about. He gets his misinformation from frauds like himself, and if it fits his agenda, he runs with it.
The problem is his supporters see him as the anointed one and they actually believe his is a stable genius and he can fix anything. Therefore, they may try drinking his elixir of Lysol. and shine UV light in their mouths to reach their lungs.
If he was being sarcastic to the journalist, why did he turn his head towards Faucii and Brix and suggest that they run a study on his miracle find that "knocks out the virus in less than a minute." ?
You constantly harp about how we bash Trump. The real reason is because he deserves it based on his very vulgar dangerous behavior. Trump uses his briefings to promote himself for re-election. But the more he uses them, the more he is exposing his true character and nature.
He doesn't even know how to act presidential or even care. He only cares about one thing right now and that is to get re-elected. He knows that if he is not re-elected, he becomes fair game for the obstruction of justice crimes he committed. He also knows AG Barr will not be there to bail him out.I couldn't have stated it more "nicely," Mike.
Thanks Randy. Just calling them as I see them!
Yes, of course - all Trump supporters are just idiots and morons (literal, not figurative) and you are so much smarter than they are. Hateful and offensive speech, to be sure, but sooo smart. At least compared to anyone that isn't on your personal bash Trump bandwagon.
Are you thinking there will be run of UV lights now, as there was on TP? Time to get in on the ground floor! (I'll watch from the sidelines.)I don't believe you are an idiot or a moron, Dan. We probably have more in common than we realize. But you see Trump as an asset, and I see him as a deficit.
And that's the name of that tune!
Wilderness: I'm not so smart, but I do have common sense and can understand when I see a person who is so desperate about being re-elected that he will say and do anything, even if it means risking others lives.
I can also see a president who is so insecure, that he conducts his own marathon press conferences that have hijacked the corona virus task team of expert scientists. He stands in their T.V. frame like an imposing sentinel to make sure they don't say anything to injure his fantasized image of himself. He then insults the press core when they ask valid questions. By the way, isn't that in violation of the freedom of the press?
It's apparent he doesn't know anything about the virus, how it infects people, how it attacks the lungs, causes the immune system to go bananas, and presents its symptoms. But he makes the experts stand for hours while he babbles on about how great his country was and how it will sky rocket once this is all over.
He suffers from narcissism, sociopathic lying, and the Dunning Kruger Effect. That effect makes people think they know more about a subject than the experts do, but they are so dumb about it, they don't even know they are dumb. It's like somebody who thinks they can fly an airplane, but they know nothing about aerodynamics.
I hope and pray that he is through with these inane press conference that are no more than a substitute for his campaign rallies.
I'm hope there is not a run on UV lights or any other kind of lights."...I do have common sense..."
Then you fully understand that it isn't the "Trump supporters" that are going to inject Lysol or turn a UV light into their throats. It is the (literal) morons among us; those too stupid to understand to not drink poison and that UV light in the throat will not kill the virus.
Then the question becomes "Why did you say such a stupid thing yourself"? Are you just ranting, saying anything that comes to mind that might convince others to join your hatred of Trump?
Were you just talking to be offensive? To tell readers they are too stupid to not drink poison? Did you intend to offend? If so, why?
Lastly, what incredible rationalization can you use to separate your stupid statement from that of Trump? Because "more is expected of him" and that makes it OK for you to make the same kind of stupid remarks he does?Wilderness: All of the questions you just asked are all loaded questions. No I'm not still beating my wife. You are trying to get me to incriminate myself instead of defending Trump and I'm not going to play that game. You don't defend Trump because at this stage, there is no defense for him. It is all on video for the world to see, except for Fox News which spins and edits the videos. They are as dangerous to this country as Trump is.
Why did you make such a foolish and offensive statement?
There - that isn't loaded in any possible way. Why did you say such a thing? (You stuck your foot in your mouth yourself, I didn't do it for you. Can you extricate it now? With more grace than Trump showed?)Wilderness: Yes your question is loaded. It assumes that I made a foolish and offensive statement. It's only your opinion that it is foolish and offensive. First off, Trump doesn't show grace.
He is one of the most vulgar and offensive human beings I know. Do you think interrupting reporters questions before they even finish the question is grace? Do you think calling them the fake news is grace? Do you think telling them to shut-up when they are asking valid questions is grace? Do you think contradicting Faucii and Birx is grace? Do you think telling them they have no brains is graceful?
You can't even defend him, without making him the victim. He is the typical bully. He will attack and then when others ask pertinent questions, he will play the victim and tell them they just asked a nasty question and then won't answer it. Everything I just stated is verifiable on video. If you don't believe me, I will post the videos.Of course it was an opinion that your comment was foolish and offensive. But that doesn't mean it was loaded.
Trump did not show grace, correct. Neither did you with the claim that Trump supporters are stupid enough to inject Lysol.
Yes, Trump is vulgar and offensive (your opinion) - does that mean you get to be that way, too? Does another rant about Trump mean it was OK to make such a statement as you did? This is called "deflection", and has nothing to do with loaded questions; the question posed was why you think it was OK to post offensive remarks about Trump followers, and a rant about Trump has nothing to do with that question.
So...for the third time, why did you make the statement that Trump followers are stupid enough to inject poisons into their body to kill the virus? I could guess, but then you call it a loaded question, so I'll just leave it at the question again - why did you make such an offensive remark? (No, I'm not asking for another rant about the evils of Trump; I'm asking why you made the remark.)Wilderness:
This is what I actually said: "The problem is his supporters see him as the anointed one and they actually believe his is a stable genius and he can fix anything. Therefore, they may try drinking his elixir of Lysol. and shine UV light in their mouths to reach their lungs."
This is what you are saying I said: "So...for the third time, why did you make the statement that Trump followers are stupid enough to inject poisons into their body to kill the virus?"
The key difference here is I didn't say they were stupid. I said, they believe in Trump as the anointed one and they may try drinking his elixir of Lysol. and shine UV light in their mouths to reach their lungs.
I noticed in your arguments that you like to use the phrase, "Are you saying and what you are saying is...That is a technique for putting words in peoples mouths and then you accuse them of actually saying that. I never said they are stupid enough to inject poison into their body...You did.
Why do you think that the makers of Lysol and other chlorine based products have just put out statements to not ingest their products when it is written right on the label? It's because of Trump's stupid statements...and that is a fact.
Lots of morons... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ … oronavirus
Yes there are. And every single one a "Trump supporter". We know this because peoplepower personally visited and spoke to each and every one, asking them their political persuasion.
Nothing new, though - we've had idiots injecting cocaine, LSD and most anything else they could find. Huffing freon and THC, swallowing opioids and speed. All poisons, disrupting the proper functioning of the human body.I dont know about every single one. But we have to count Trump as a Trump supporter, right?
Well, that was the comment - that Trump supporters will drink the Lysol. Not just Trump (who must not a supporter of himself as he won't drink), but the rest of the supporters as well.
But you don't have the President of the United States telling his supporters to go use LSD, Cocaine, etc. now do we? THAT IS THE POINT.
Go back and read again: the point was the peoplepower decided, and publicly proclaimed, that those following Trump are also the ones stupid enough to poison themselves.
Do try to stay with the topic rather than forever drifting off into "TRUMP BAD!!!".Do you even know what the topic of this thread is, Dan? Perhaps you need to reread it.
Yes, more is expected from the leader of the Free World, Dan. Do you enjoy being part of his cadre? Does it make you feel proud when he spouts gibberish as medical advice?
If you're not embarrassed by his latest statements, then nothing more needs to be said.
At least those who continue to support Trump after being exposed to his true, extremely flawed, extremely dangerous character are.
That you fiind him "extremely dangerous" as he works (effectively) to improve the nation and it's people, has exactly zero to do with reality. Perhaps it is those that simply ride the bandwagon, without thinking for themselves, that are unintelligent enough to drink the Kool-aid!
But how can any reasonable person get past the fact that MOST (and I am talking about more than 50% of any substinative thing he says) things that come out of Trump's mouth or twitter finger are LIES, Deflections, Deceptions, and Misinformation. How can that be the so-called TDS when it is the TRUTH.
I would say the proper definition of TDS is Trump Denying Syndrome. This is where Trump supporters deny he ever lies or does anything wrong.Once more: the point is not that you think Trump is awful: it is that you and others are following his path of being offensive and insulting...while constantly berating him for the same kind of words you are producing.
Please, try to stick to the point and reply to it, not the TDS requiring that everything you post has to do with Trump being evil (and anyone not bashing him repeatedly is of the same disgusting ilk; evil). Respond to what was said, not what the TDS is pushing you to say.
You see, most of us can do that. We can think about something other than Trump being bad. We can say something other that "Trump Bad!". Work on it.Are you saying that when Trump lies, we shouldn't call it that because it is insulting?
You also miss the point about the "bashing". If he didn't deserve to be called out on things and people bashed him anyway, like your side did with Obama, then that would be properly classified as bashing.
BUT, if people continually call out Trump on the bad things he does, that is, by defintion, NOT Bashing. Instead, it is telling the TRUTH. A truth your side doesn't want to hear and therefore misname it "bashing" and "TDS".
Another thing you don't get - "WE ARE responding to things he said" I post his quotes all of the time. (I didn't today because he didn't say anything yesterday.)
It shows that Trump is not scientifically schooled. (neither is he willing to listen to science) Compare him with Merkel and... well you can't compare the two actually. completely different leagues.
Sad thing is, that he is tweeting things and telling things on youtube in a position of power. People believe him, just like sect leaders are believed by the thousands, although they are talking complete gibberish.
Question: as it looks asTrump is not handling this crisis properly, are there any other public figures where people are hoping to get answers from in the US?Andrew Cuomo is the voice of reason thus far.
He is the Governor from New York isn't he? Any other news from other Governers of hard-hit regions like Illinois, Michigan, California, Florida?
If I put myself in Trump's place, he comes from privilege and entitlement. Therefore, I'm sure he has never used Lysol or even knows what it is. He has had other people that worked for him use it. In a sense, he is encapsulated from the real world on such things as grocery shopping or using cleaning products that contain bleach.
Therefore ,without knowing what it is he is not only suggesting that we use it internally, but he asked the experts to do a feasibility study. When questioned about it, he becomes very defensive with the reporters and ends up attacking them and calling them the fake news when he doesn't have a clue of what he is talking about.
I think inside, we are seeing a very insecure person that hides behind his bullying. The problem is his supporters tend to believe everything he says and Fox News will spin it to make it look like Trump is the victim. I'm so sick and tired of him being in front of the task force and running his own press conferencesI do believe Trump is losing it with his desperation for a virus cure. Anyone can see he doesn't want hard questions put to him and thus, he cuts them off and insults the reporters instead of taking the question.
Even his supporters see this happening, but only those die-hard Fox News watchers will deny he does this. After referring to the virus as fake news Hannity and Co. had to backtrack quite a bit, as they've also done with the hydroxycloriquine "cure" touted by the king.My turn in the barrel Mike. I am only responding to your comment to take my lumps.
I frequently argue with Trump bashers over the obviousness and shallowness of there complaints. But . . . I can't find any rational mitigation for this "disinfectant" thing. What the hell could he be thinking?
Wait, don't answer that. It was a rhetorical question. I could probably write your, (generic), answers as well as you could.
. . . . and then I hear the 'I was speaking sarcastically' explanation. Geesh
ps. I'm gonna bookmark this one for those folks that say I am a Trump defender ;-)
GANot much excuse for his remark, or the one saying he was sarcastic.
But then there isn't much excuse for anyone stupid enough to inject or even drink Lysol or bleach as a cure for the virus, either. Or, IMO, the company that found it necessary to reinforce the warnings on the can with a public announcement not to inject or drink it.You forget Dan, there are a lot of Trump voters still out there.
No wonder neither Fauci or Birx appeared today for questions. You could see the look on her face yesterday. It seemed to say, "Shut the hell up!" The poor lady is trying the best she can to get through this daily fiasco.Of Course this leads to Trump LYING again on 4/24/2020, which has just been referred to..
"President Donald Trump lied Friday when he said he was being "sarcastic" when he asked medical experts on Thursday to look into the possibility of injecting disinfectant as a treatment for the coronavirus.
Doctors and the company that makes Lysol and Dettol warned that injecting or ingesting disinfectants is dangerous. But when Trump was asked about the comments during a bill signing on Friday, he said, "I was asking a question sarcastically to reporters like you just to see what would happen."
He then suggested he was talking about disinfectants that can safely be rubbed on people's hands. And then he returned to the sarcasm explanation, saying it was "a very sarcastic question to the reporters in the room about disinfectant on the inside."
A reporter noted that he had asked his medical experts to look into it. Trump responded: "No, no, no, no -- to look into whether or not sun and disinfectant on the hands, but whether or not sun can help us." - I don't need a Facts First from CNN on this one since I watched it. I had to replay it to make sure Trump wasn't joking. He wasn't, he was as serious as a heart attack (which might happen when you inject yourself with Lysol).
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/24/politics … index.html
What is more amazing to me than the President of the United States being a pathological liar, is how many Americans drink his Kool-Aid (or is it Lysol) now.
Right behind that is the criticism by the Kool-Aid drinkers of those who keep pointing out Trump's lies. For some unknown, unfathomable reason, they think we are Trump bashers for pointing these lies out.No, we should not bash him for being a moronic liar who's putting his own people at risk. It hurts his feelings and we don't want that.
I heard that calls to the Illinois poison control center increased sharply after Trump's advice to his supporters to drink disinfectants and shine a great light on themselves.
I read someplace that demographers are finding that the coronavirus may cost Trump his election - and not for the obvious reason that he is making a fool of himself with all of his lies and deceptions. It seems that his most loyal voters, old folks, are dying off in droves due to the virus (that we knew). What they found interesting is they may be dying off in large enough numbers in the battleground states to actually reduce his voting block.
Then add to that my thought that between now and the election, the people most likely to catch and die from Covid are Trump voters (because they won't take proper precautions and want to "open up" too soon) and therefore will make it even harder to win."I heard that calls to the Illinois poison control center increased sharply after Trump's advice to his supporters to drink disinfectants and shine a great light on themselves."
Yes, I heard that too. That calls to poison control increased (to around 100) after Trumps statement...to the entire nation. Have you joined peoplepower in insinuating that the people stupid enough to be willing to drink poison are all Trump followers? Or perhaps joint Trump, albeit in a more "hidden" way, in insulting those not of your political persuasion?
Looking at your last paragraph, it seems the first is more true than the second. Without any knowledge whatsoever of who isn't taking "proper precautions", you are willing to step up to the soapbox and declare they are Trump voters.
Same question to you as to peoplepower, then: what makes you believe you have the right to act as Trump does and insult/offend those on the other side of the political fence, simply because they are on the other side? Are you learning from Trump?I don't see where we even come close to what Trump does. First, when we criticize, it is based on objective facts - something that is foreign to Trump. And that is just an observation from over four years of watching Trump operate.
It is an objective, fact-based statement that Trump has lied, misinformed, given false statements, etc over 15,000 times since taking office. Probably more than the rest of the presidents put together. (That is unknown since nobody had to keep track of how many times a president did those things before)
Now, is it offensive or insulting to observe that a person who denies such facts is not rational and that it is rational to throw their support behind a person who does that when TRUST in the word of a president is paramount to successful leadership?
I don't think it is. You do, of course, because you are on the receiving end of it.
Almost two months ago Trump said about Covid cases "We are close to zero", meaning he thought it was about over in the United States. Today, we are approaching 1,000,000 cases and 60,000 dead WRONG AGAIN.
Two months ago we were "close to zero", meaning we didn't have many cases. You're WRONG AGAIN. (being "close to zero" does not mean it is over; it means there aren't many cases at that time - you don't get to insert meaning to justify your rants.)
Wilderness: What you and Trump don't understand is the exponential spread rate of the virus and the spread interval. The corona virus has an average spread rate of 3. What that means is one person can infect three people. Those 3 people can infect 9 people. Those 9 people can infect 27 people. Those 27 people can infect 81 people and so on. It's a multiplier of 3.
The spread interval is the time that it takes from the time a person contracts the virus until symptoms show up. That interval for COVID19 is much slower than for other viruses therefore, its symptoms are delayed.
So why am I telling you this? Because Trump didn't and still doesn't understand the exponential rate nor the spread interval. That's why he said, "Why should I shut the country down? There are only 15 people infected and it will be gone in a month, like a miracle."
He also doesn't understand that there are two parts to testing. One is the collection of the specimen and the other is the actual testing. He holds up a swab stick and says this is all there is to testing.
He does not understand the logistics of testing and the supply chain. He should step aside for the good of the country and let competent people make the decisions about testing. He has no analytical or empathetic abilities like Governors Coumo and Newsome. They will not open up their states until the spread rate is less than one.
His focus is opening up the country as fast as he can because he wants to make it look good for his re-election But because he doesn't have a clue about how the virus can rebound it will more than likely be to his detriment and many more people could die as a result of his demands.I understand full well the exponential growth of biological organisms such as a virus.
But what you don't seem to understand is that you cannot (truthfully) change the meaning of words to suit your desire to demonize Trump. "Close to zero" does NOT mean future growth is minimized; it means there aren't very many cases AT THAT TIME. You don't get to change it to mean "there won't be any more".
So yes, you (again) lied when you claimed he said something different, or that he meant something he didn't say. Nor does going off on a tangent about opening the country before you think we should, or about how it will affect the election, have anything to do with how many cases we had in February. Just more deflection and attempt to demonize the man rather than address his actual words.
Reasonable people understand that "close to zero" does not mean it is over. But whoever believed Trump was reasonable??? But thanks for the opening:
Jan. 22: “We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China. We have it under control. It’s going to be just fine.” — Trump in a CNBC interview.- Today we have almost 1,000,000 cases and 55,000 dead - then we had 1 case in America that we knew of.
Jan. 30: “We think we have it very well under control. We have very little problem in this country at this moment — five — and those people are all recuperating successfully. But we’re working very closely with China and other countries, and we think it’s going to have a very good ending for us … that I can assure you.” — Trump in a speech in Michigan. - Today we have almost 1,000,000 cases and 55,000 dead - then we had 30 cases in America.
Feb. 10: “Now, the virus that we’re talking about having to do — you know, a lot of people think that goes away in April with the heat — as the heat comes in. Typically, that will go away in April. We’re in great shape though. We have 12 cases — 11 cases, and many of them are in good shape now.” — Trump at the White House. - Today we have almost 1,000,000 cases and 55,000 dead - then we had 12 cases and 1 dead in America.
Feb. 23: “We have it very much under control in this country.” — Trump in speaking to reporters.- Today we have almost 1,000,000 cases and 55,000 dead - then we had 35 cases and 1 dead in America.
Feb. 24: “The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA. We are in contact with everyone and all relevant countries. CDC & World Health have been working hard and very smart. Stock Market starting to look very good to me!” — Trump in a tweet.- Today we have almost 1,000,000 cases and 55,000 dead - then we had 53 cases and 1 dead in America.
Feb. 26: “So we’re at the low level. As they get better, we take them off the list, so that we’re going to be pretty soon at only five people. And we could be at just one or two people over the next short period of time. So we’ve had very good luck.” — Trump at a White House briefing.- Today we have almost 1,000,000 cases and 55,000 dead - then we had 60 cases and 1 dead in America.
Feb. 26: “And again, when you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that’s a pretty good job we’ve done.” — Trump at a press conference. - Today we have almost 1,000,000 cases and 55,000 dead - then we had 60 cases and 1 dead in America.
Feb. 26: “I think every aspect of our society should be prepared. I don’t think it’s going to come to that, especially with the fact that we’re going down, not up. We’re going very substantially down, not up.” — Trump at a press conference, when asked if “U.S. schools should be preparing for a coronavirus spreading.”- Today we have almost 1,000,000 cases and 55,000 dead - then we had 60 cases and 1 dead in America.
Feb. 27: “It’s going to disappear. One day — it’s like a miracle — it will disappear.” — Trump at a White House meeting with African American leaders.- Today we have almost 1,000,000 cases and 55,000 dead - then we had 60 cases and 1 dead in America.
Feb. 29: “And I’ve gotten to know these professionals. They’re incredible. And everything is under control. I mean, they’re very, very cool. They’ve done it, and they’ve done it well. Everything is really under control.” — Trump in a speech at the CPAC conference outside Washington, D.C.- Today we have almost 1,000,000 cases and 55,000 dead - then we had 68 cases and 1 dead in America.
March 4: “[W]e have a very small number of people in this country [infected]. We have a big country. The biggest impact we had was when we took the 40-plus people [from a cruise ship]. … We brought them back. We immediately quarantined them. But you add that to the numbers. But if you don’t add that to the numbers, we’re talking about very small numbers in the United States.” — Trump at a White House meeting with airline CEOs. - Today we have almost 1,000,000 cases and 55,000 dead - then we had 158 cases and 11 dead in America.
March 4: “Well, I think the 3.4% is really a false number.” — Trump in an interview on Fox News, referring to the percentage of diagnosed COVID-19 patients worldwide who had died, as reported by the World Health Organization.- Today we have almost 1,000,000 cases and 55,000 dead - then we had 158 cases and 11 dead in America.
March 7: “No, I’m not concerned at all. No, we’ve done a great job with it.” — Trump, when asked by reporters if he was concerned about the arrival of the coronavirus in the Washington, D.C., area. - Today we have almost 1,000,000 cases and 55,000 dead - then we had 435 cases and 19 dead in America.
March 9: “So last year 37,000 Americans died from the common Flu. It averages between 27,000 and 70,000 per year. Nothing is shut down, life & the economy go on. At this moment there are 546 confirmed cases of CoronaVirus, with 22 deaths. Think about that!” — Trump in a tweet." - Today we have almost 1,000,000 cases and 55,000 dead - then we had 704 cases and 26 dead in America.
March 10: “And we’re prepared, and we’re doing a great job with it. And it will go away. Just stay calm. It will go away.” — Trump after meeting with Republican senators. - "Today we have almost 1,000,000 cases and 55,000 dead - then we had 994 cases and 30 dead in America.[/i]
A day later, on March 11, the WHO declared the global outbreak a pandemic.
And yet YOU take what this man says seriously!! I don't get it. You aren't one of the Trumplicans who will drink the Lysol.Can you show where Trump said "It's over"? And then can you tie it directly to the current cases being "close to zero" (as in the same sentence or paragraph)?
No. You cannot. So when you post a timeline of the epidemic, months beyond the statement you wish to portray as meaning "there is no epidemic" although it said nothing of the kind, it has exactly zero to do with what Trump said, or with your insinuation he said it was all over. Just more attempts to Bash, then, using spun words and meanings that were never there?
Do you not find that more than a little disingenuous? It is, you know, exactly what you complain Trump does: exaggerate, change meanings, etc., and here you are following his footsteps while trying desperately to change the topic to something more amenable to demonizing your president.
Eso, you and a handful of others here absolutely kill me. You use Trump's methodology; twisting, spinning, lying, etc. ... and then complain vociferously when he does the same thing.Can you point out the "twisted" spun lies in Scott's timeline?
I have already done so, beginning with the insinuation that Trump meant there was no pandemic with the words "close to zero".
Sure, he was saying it "sarcastically" as he did with suggestions of using antiseptics and light as a cure. And as he did yesterday when he asked why the reporters didn't return their "Noble" prizes?
The stable genius you admire doesn't realize the Pulitzer Prize is awarded to journalists, not the Nobel. But keep defending his stupid comments. Someone needs to...As with Peoplepower and Esoteric, you may not change the topic to something more conducive to bashing Trump. This time it was changing "close to zero" cases to "there is no pandemic" and that simply was not true. Your side trip into prizes has no bearing whatsoever...except to bash Trump, which I'm not interested in.
And Just like People, you are trying to change it to a defense of Trump, when everything I've had to say concerned the spin and lies produced in this forum. Statements by posters, not by Trump.Wilderness: Whether you realize it or not, here is what the OP wants this forum to be about.
"Trump Lies, Distortions, and Deceptions About Coronavirus"
"This forum is to catalogue the many lies, distortions, deceptions, and misinformation Donald Trump has made about his administration's effort to combat the coronavirus. He is doing his damnedest to make you think is doing a 10 out of 10 job when, in fact, it is more like 3 or 4 out of 10 (yes, I will agree he has done a few things right). But the things he has done wrong has COST LIVES, lots of lives - and people should know.
People need to know that Trump is deceiving you. Feel free to add your own but include a date and a quote.
I'll start off with the first one from today."I understand that. And if you didn't want to change the topic to your own (or that or Esoteric's) language then you should not respond to a comment.
But you DID respond...to a comment about a comment by a poster here rather than Trumps. Once more, what I see is a forum dedicated to lies from Trump...and full of lies about Trump. If you don't wish to discuss those lies, then don't respond. Pretty simple.I did. Several times in this thread. Go back and read them. So far your only reply to what was said is that I cannot "read between the lines" as you can. Translation: I'm not willing to spin Trumps words to suit my purposes as you are.
You're right, too.Good thinking, Dan. Trump doesn't require any sort of assistance with spinning his words to suit his purpose.
You may wanta take some of those Clorox chewables.My wife and I are laughing our asses off listening to Trump's news conference. I am up to six outright lies so far., now seven .... now eight
Trump says Big Study - people who lose their livelihood can die as well (trying to argue against social distancing.)
We are going to more than double SOON (they said that last February, five or more times, then did it again in March, then again in April.
Did 200,000 tests in a single day, Pense says. They promised that 1 1/2 months ago. We've done 5 million tests now when 20 million should have been done.
One misinformation by saying America has done more tests (which is true) than any other country but NOT SAID, is that our PER CAPITA rate is very low.They were being "sarcastic," Scott. This seems to be excuse of the month now. But Dan will consider this "bashing" as well. No fair counting the lies...
Wilderness: You are defending Trump whether you realize it or not. Claiming we spin Trump's words to suit our own purpose is defending him. What do you call it?
I assure it's not difficult. Although you will have to stop "reading between the lines" and spinning his words into something more conducive to your goal of demonizing him.
In other words, check your claim of what he said against what he actually said. You'll find lots of times that the claim being made is untrue.
(You could start with the claim he told people to drink Lysol, or inject it - I've watched that video clip a half dozen times and haven't seen yet where he said that, or encouraged it. Every time I see it, he turns to his expert and asks if we can find some way of making it work inside the body - not a single viewing produced your version of his remarks)Wilderness: That's really great. But somebody with a modicum of what Lysol is would no better than to believe finding some way of making it work inside the body. Its most active ingredient is lye for God's sake. That is why it is called Lysol.
If he understood how the virus has to get to the lungs in order to reproduce then he would understand that shining a light on the outside or inside of the body isn't going to work. Lysol and sunlight can kill the virus on surfaces, if it hasn't already died on it's on.
O.K. so the president doesn't have to know those things, but a president should have enough common sense to leave those types of discussions to the experts.
Trump is so desperate to get re-elected, he can not stay out of the limelight and will do and say crazy sh*t that he has no knowledge of because he has led a sheltered life when it come to experiences that the common person has had. But being the stable genius that he is, he can't help himself.
It sounds like I'm bashing him, but I am really trying to be empathetic with him. I can put myself in his place and see what he is going through. Even that he has to lie and say it was sarcasm to save face.No argument with any of this.
But it has zero to do with what I had to say in the comment you replied to, which was that it was a lie to claim Trump said to drink Lysol, or inject it, or even encouraged people to do so. He did not, but the claim was made anyway.Wilderness: I never said that. And I copied it from my post of 45 hours ago. So if you want to verify it just go back to my post from 45 hours ago.
This is what I actually said: "The problem is his supporters see him as the anointed one and they actually believe his is a stable genius and he can fix anything. Therefore, they may try drinking his elixir of Lysol. and shine UV light in their mouths to reach their lungs."
Good, then we can finally agree on something."I disagree, anyone who suggest someone drink or inject disinfectants can be blamed for being stupid."
https://hubpages.com/education/forum/34 … ost4134814
"Therefore ,without knowing what it is he is not only suggesting that we use it internally," <This one is from you>
https://hubpages.com/education/forum/34 … ost4134837
"More concerning, though, is the number of people who actually went ahead with the suggestion."
https://hubpages.com/education/forum/34 … ost4135166
But he said he was talking to the reporters, not the experts, Dan. Or don't you believe him?
Wilderness: You like to say we are demonizing Trump. To demonize means to be wicked and threatening. Trump's counter-punching and lashing out at his opponents is threatening and revengeful and his over 15,000 lies and misinformation are morally evil.
But he can't help himself. That's the way he is wired. I have never seen him apologize for anything or admit that he has ever made a mistake. That says a lot about a persons character.
I don't want him as my president and that is neither wicked or threatening. It is my prerogative and I will not support him. You may call it demonizing as you wish.Agreed, it's our right and duty to speak out against what we see as a bad leader of the country. Some Trump loyalists remind me of the people of Germany who defended Hitler's actions and words, although I don't believe Hitler lied as much as Trump does.
A sad statement for the present time...."Trump's counter-punching and lashing out at his opponents is threatening and revengeful"
And that makes it OK for you to do it?
"But he can't help himself."
OK - then what is your excuse for behaving in the same manner?
If you think "not supporting" Trump is the same as posting hundreds (thousands?) of public posts exaggerating and spinning whatever he does (with an occasional outright lie thrown in for good measure), from the biggest soapbox in history, you really need to re-think your position.
But it is certainly your prerogative to say what you will (except for the lies). Just as it is his, right?Where have we have spun ANYTHING? Where have we behaved like Trump? All we have done is copy his quotes and comment on them.
Dan knows this already, Scott. He's ran out of excuses as have many of Trump's proud base. It's sad to watch....
Of course he knows it, but because he can't defend Trump with facts or reasonable logic, he is left with false accusations.
Where did I say Trump "TOLD" people??? You are making that up aren't you. Did he "encourage" it? Yes, I believe I heard him do that. Also, Snopes says that claim is true.
"THE PRESIDENT: Right. And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning. Because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs. So it would be interesting to check that. So, that, you’re going to have to use medical doctors with. But it sounds — it sounds interesting to me."
REMEMBER, this is the President of the United States giving credence to clearly ridiculous ideas. NOBODY, but Trump and his rabid followers, thinks what he says is "interesting" is worthy of consideration.
What do people who know say about it?
Dr. Vin Gupta, a pulmonologist and global health policy expert and NBC News contributor, said:
“This notion of injecting or ingesting any type of cleansing product into the body is irresponsible, and it’s dangerous. It’s a common method that people utilize when they want to kill themselves.”
I have listened to Dr, Sanjay Gupta says the same thing.on several occasions.
"Reckitt Benckiser, the British company that manufacturers Lysol and Dettol, published a statement on its website saying that “under no circumstance should our disinfectant products be administered into the human body”: - IF THIS thing Trump found "interesting" is so benign, why were the makers of Lysol forced to publish that?
If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen, Dan. You voluntarily posted on the topic to defend Trump's outrageous statements. Plus, you have your own"spin and lies" you put forth as truth, so be indignant when called on it,
I don't blame you for not wanting to comment on his latest fiascos though, as there's not too much you can say to defend his tweets and lies. Be proud of him....Once again, an outright lie - the truth is not in you Randy, for I did not defend Trump at all. Just pointed out that the statements being made here were as false as what was being complained about.
As I mentioned elsewhere it kills me to see people crying crocodile tears about how awful Trump is, how he lies and all, and then repeating the same actions themselves. Be proud of yourself for fitting into Trump's shoes so well.
NO, you didn't, not once other than to admit you don't know how to interpret what people say.
Wilderness: Oh so you agree to Trump's methodology of twisting, spinning lying, exaggerating, changing meanings etc, and then you say we are as bad as him.
So you are really caught in a paradox my friend. You defend Trump, then you say we are using the same methodology as he does. Ergo, you like Trump but don't like us when you claim that we do the same as he does.
What part of verbatim quotes don't you understand? There is no spin. How can a virus just go away and not be at zero infections? How many people are infected with polio right now?..zero.
You give us a task to tie it directly to the current cases being "close to zero" (as in the same sentence or paragraph)? So in your world when that can't be done, Trump is vindicated...Long live King Trump.And now you put words in my mouth (again) that were never there. You even claim I defended Trump, when I have done no such thing: everything I've posted here concerns your words, not those of Trump. The only truth in your first paragraph is that I find your methodology similar to his: the rest (that I approve of it) is an outright lie.
Go back, People, and re-read this thread. I took exception at your lie about what Trump said and I said so. I didn't not "defend" Trump: I only commented on what you had to say. If you don't like it pointed out that you are using the same kind of tactics Trump does then don't use them.
Like most people, I can read between the lines. You may not have that ability, but you would be the exception.
You may not have noticed, Wilderness, but NOBODY, including yourself, says precisely what they mean. But normal people can read the context, take into account what has been said before, and draw a reasonably good conclusion as to meaning.
And it is clear that Trump meant to say, wrongly, that the virus was going away.I get that. I also get that anything and everything you choose (choose!) to read into Trumps words is something bad. And somehow you find that reasonable, but nobody else does.
No doubt it IS clear as a bell to you...because that's what you want it to be. As it always is with you - something to continue the Trump bashing with.
But some of us, most of us, will attempt to make calls based on the surrounding topic, the context, and other factors. Not just that we want something to complain about.No, Wilderness, ONLY YOU do not.
How can you possibly overlook that he said:
6 Times between Jan through Mar that HE has the virus under when he obviously DID NOT
5 Times between Feb through Mar that the virus "would go away" or similar words.
1 Time that the WHO death rate was wrong when it was not
1 Time that "he is not concerned"
1 Time that the number of cases were going DOWN, not UP (when they were going up)
How is it that you totally miss his belief that the Pandemic is no big deal? I worry about your objectivity.
"After walking out of Friday's coronavirus briefing without taking questions, President Donald Trump embarked on one of his more noteworthy weekend tweetstorms.
It went like his tweetstorms usually do.
There was self-pity and self-aggrandizement. There were grievances and attacks. And, as is the case so often, there was outlandish dishonesty.
Trump tweeted and retweeted more than 35 times apiece on Saturday and Sunday -- including six deleted tweets recorded by Trump-tracking website Factba.se. His messages were littered with false claims, some of them downright bizarre. Here are fact-checks of the lowlights:"
"Was just informed that the Fake News from the Thursday White House Press Conference had me speaking & asking questions of Dr. Deborah Birx. Wrong, I was speaking to our Laboratory expert, not Deborah, about sunlight etc. & the CoronaVirus. The Lamestream Media is corrupt & sick!" he wrote on Twitter." - HE IS LYING, I watched him, so did the everybody else. And it is Trump who is Corrupt & Sick
""I work from early in the morning until late at night, haven't left the White House in many months (except to launch Hospital Ship Comfort) in order to take care of Trade Deals, Military Rebuilding etc..." - Again False. First, he spends a whole lot of time watching TV and tweeting. Second, he held a rally in NC on Mar 2; was in PA on Mar 5; Georgia on Mar 6; Mar a Lago on Mar 7 & 8; Orlando on Mar 9; FEMA on Mar 19; then in February he was in India, had five rallies around the country, and played a lot of golf.
"Over three tweets, Trump repeated his familiar complaint about how reporters were awarded the Pulitzer Prize for their coverage of the Trump-Russia story -- except, instead of the Pulitzer, Trump four times used the word "Noble," apparently misspelling "Nobel."
After he was roundly mocked for both the spelling error and the prize mix-up, Trump deleted the tweets. But he also offered a ridiculous explanation: he had intentionally used "Noble," as "sarcasm."
"Does anybody get the meaning of what a so-called Noble (not Nobel) Prize is, especially as it pertains to Reporters and Journalists? Noble is defined as, 'having or showing fine personal qualities or high moral principles and ideals.' Does sarcasm ever work?" - Like his Friday lie that he was being "sarcastic" when he mused about people injecting disinfectant, this is obvious nonsense. There was no indication he was being sarcastic in the tweets about the "Noble."Only fools will buy his excuses,Scott, but there seems to be many of his base trying to.
ON 4/27/2020 Trump releases is next set of misinformation - and Pence joined him.
Starting with Pence: "(Trump said the number of tests conducted would soon be much more than double the current level.)
A reporter then asked Pence what went wrong before -- after his early-March claims that four million tests would be available by the following week. Pence said last Friday, a month and a half after those March comments, that 5.1 million Americans had been tested.
Pence responded Monday: "I appreciate the question, but it represents a misunderstanding on your part and frankly the -- a lot of people in the public's part -- about the difference between having a test versus the ability to actually process the test."
Pence said "the old system" was not able to process the tests at the necessary volume. When a reporter pressed him, asking if he had just been talking in March "about tests being sent out, not actually being completed," Pence said that was correct." - If there was a misunderstanding, Pence's own remarks helped create it. When Pence said on March 9 and on March 10 that 4 million tests would be distributed before the end of the week (that would have been by MARCH 13). This is now the end of April, in addition to 1 million already distributed, he did not explain that those millions of tests could not be processed anytime soon. (misleading at best)
"At Monday's news conference, the President was asked about China's role in the pandemic. Trump repeated his regular false claim that the US "never took in 10 cents from China" before he took office." - Facts First: Not only are Americans bearing most of the cost of Trump's tariffs but the US has also had tariffs on China for more than two centuries, generating an average of $12 billion a year from 2007 to 2016.
"Trump also mentioned his oft-repeated false claim about placing travel restrictions on China due to the coronavirus.
He claimed during Monday's news conference that "we closed the border," adding: "We put a ban on China, other than our citizens coming in." - While he did put SOME restrictions on travel, it was hardly a "ban"
""I could tell you that Nancy Pelosi was dancing in the streets in Chinatown. She wanted to go. 'Let's go out and party.' Now that was late into February, so you don't mention that. But you could mention that," Trump said." - Facts First: There is no available footage of Pelosi dancing in the streets of San Francisco's Chinatown during her February 24 visit, and she did not call for people to "go out and party." She did visit the neighborhood amid concerns of rising anti-Chinese bigotry, and she did encourage people to visit the area, but Trump has repeatedly exaggerated what she said and did. During her trip, Pelosi walked around Chinatown, visited businesses and a temple, and ate at a dim sum restaurant.
"During Monday's news conference, Trump was asked about comments former Vice President Joe Biden made that he believes Trump may try to delay November's presidential election. Trump said he hadn't thought about changing the date and then launched into a new false claim -- suggesting that Biden didn't make those comments himself.
"That was just made-up propaganda. Not by him, but by some of the many people that are working, writing little statements," Trump said, later adding: "He didn't make those statements. But somebody did. But they said he made it." - Trump just can't stop lying. "Facts First: Biden did make those exact statements at a virtual fundraiser last week, according to a pool report. "Mark my words: I think he is going to try to kick back the election somehow, come up with some rationale why it can't be held," Biden said at the virtual event."It's actually amazing to see a world without world leaders. Today we face a huge crisis and America, Russia and China are nowhere to be seen on the world stage..
Europe is struggling to hold it together as the North, South and East have different ideas about the rescue budget. and the UK has disappeared too.
Such a small virus with huge consequences. l.
Trump doesn't understand what's happening nor will he listen to scientists unless they do what he suggests...in the meantime Blaming other countries or organizations. Johnson is nowhere to be seen or heard. Putin, does he still exist? And what was the name again from the leader of China? The one in North-Korea is also lost and The Dutch prime minister is a disgrace in helping Europe.
From the big countries the only world leader to me who kept a strong, sensible, and empathetic leadership is Angela Merkel. (could it be because she has a science background...)The 4/28/2020 installment of Trump Lies, Distortions, and Misinformation.
ON FAUCI - "You go back, and you take a look at even professionals like Anthony were saying, 'This is no problem.' This was late in February. This is no problem. This is going to blow over." - Facts First: Trump is wrong that Fauci publicly said the virus was "no problem" and would "blow over." What did Fauce REALLY say? "At this moment, there's no need to change anything that you're doing on a day by day basis. Right now, the risk is still low," Fauci said, "but this could change. I've said that many times even on this program."
"When you start to see community spread, this could change and force you to become much more attentive to doing things that would protect you from spread."
When asked how the outbreak would end, Fauci stated that the situation could escalate." Something Trump was NOT saying. He was saying he had it under control and the virus would disappear.
ON GOING TO ZERO - ""When you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that's a pretty good job we've done." When challenged about this false claim Trump responded "It will go down to zero, ultimately,[/b[" Notice how Trump moved from "a couple of days" to "ultimately". - Facts First: Cases are now over 1 million!
ON TESTING - "Trump argued once again that any coronavirus testing issues were the fault of others, claiming, "We inherited a very broken test." - Trump needs to understand that his was a "novel" virus and therefore [b]there was no test to inherent. Instead, the CDC developed a flawed test rather than use one approved by WHO.
IF YOU REPEAT A LIE OFTEN ENOUGH ... "Speaking in the East Room Tuesday afternoon, he claimed that he "closed down" the US and its borders, adding, "I did a ban on China from coming in, other than US citizens." - It was NOT a BAN, it was limited travel restrictions with lots of holes in it.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/28/politics … index.htmlAnother Lie from 4/28/2020 - ""Many very good experts, very good people too, said this would never affect the United States," Trump told CNN's Jim Acosta on Tuesday. "The experts got it wrong. A lot of people got it wrong and a lot of people didn't know it would be this serious." - Such an obvious lie. He had been briefed many times on the potential for a massive outbreak in America from mid-January!
You know you can get into a heap of trouble for bugging the white house so you can report on everything Trump heard or was told.
So Trump didn't get warnings about the virus? Okay.
It was a question in response to your last comment, Dan. Or did you seriously believe Scott bugged the WH?
No I don't, but how else would he know Trump has never been told "this would never affect the United States,"? By "Many very good experts, very good people too"?
The only thing I can think of is that he has everywhere Trump has been (including the entire White House) bugged, and has gone through those tapes hour by hour, since Jan. 1. Surely he wouldn't make such a claim unless he knows that Trump was never told that!I thought he was referencing Jim Acosta's interview with Trump in the post you responded to?
Randy: Wilderness can't defend Trump and he knows it. Therefore he is deflecting by questioning the sources of the facts and how they were collected.
He is implying that the only way Scott could have come across that information is to bug the White House. That is such a weak ploy and he knows it. Everyday, Trump comes out with more lies. I can't even keep up with him anymore.
And then he accuses me of using Trump's tactics in my comments. That is such a false equivalence.You'll see more desperate measures to defend Trump in the months to come, Mike. Shar already bowed out of the political forums, and some notables--who post memes and other pro-Trump propaganda--have been missing for a while.
Yes she did. Perhaps tired of being told she was defending Trump by pointing out the fallacies in the Trump Haters posts. I suppose that is defending Trump, though, by insisting on truth from those making claims. I guess.
Or not.She was indignant for being proved wrong, Dan. Like many other Trump enablers....
Oh, I don't think Trump needs anyone to enable him - he does that quite well all by himself! I'm surprised you didn't notice...perhaps you were looking too hard for something to gripe about.
1. Regarding "looking hard". As I have said before, we don't have to look hard at all since Trump gives us wonderful fodder every day.
2. If YOU enablers didn't support Trump, then he wouldn't be destroying the country, would he?I haven't supported him - only called you on your lies.
He isn't "destroying the country" - he is doing more good than the last half-dozen presidents have.You know as well as I do, even if you refuse to discuss his accomplishments. Nevertheless:
He is cutting illegal border crossings.
He is promoting fair trade agreements
He has taken China to task for intellectual theft
He promotes America rather than other countries
His actions produced the lowest unemployment seen in decades and the lowest black unemployment ever.
That's a starter. Now go ahead and tell us that those things are NOT good for America, or that Obama did them, not Trump.Wilderness: It's apparent you used points from Trump's state of the union speech. So here is the Fact Check on his speech.
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/02/factc … e-union-3/I thought those stats sounded familiar. Your link puts things in the correct perspective, Mike. Unless one believes Trump's words, of course.
Of course they sound familiar! Would you expect Trump to exclaim over his failures? No - he will mention his successes.
But as far as "perspective" - check my previous reply, where the link simply goes into a different topic, but one close enough that if a gullible readers isn't paying attention they'll swallow it as something it is not.No, I expect him to embellish his failures to make himself believe them to be successes. A gullible supporter will believe him as well.
Wilderness: You didn't read down far enough to the analysis. Scroll down and read the analysis. And after that, then scroll down further and see the source for the claims. You will see that you are the one who is weasel-wording the facts.
But all of this really doesn't matter because what you have listed as Trump's great accomplishments was in the past and doesn't apply to the Trump of today.
He has made a soup sandwich out of trying to manage this crisis by lying, playing to his bases fantasies, self-aggrandizing, and blaming others for his lack of leadership.
He is putting his re-election above the lives of others. He and his team are the least qualified to handle this crisis, excluding Faucii and Birx. They have no plan other than to get him re-elected. When it comes to leadership in this crisis, he doesn't hold a candle to Cuomo and Newsome.Ah. So the greatest disease disaster in recent history hits and because he didn't do what you think he should have all of his previous accomplishments don't count.
Should I be surprised at your reaction, even to the point of your reading his mind once more?What previous accomplishments? He has done very little that is good for America. His greatest accomplishment from where I sit is help depopulate the world. Look how many undocumented men, women, and children he has helped kill. Look at how many Kurdish dies as a result of him abandoning them. Look at how many Americans have died needless deaths because he was so very slow to (and in many cases failed) to act to protect us from the virus.
Maybe you think he should be like that Las Vegas mayor who said it wasn't her job to protect the people who elected her.
But beyond that, let's say a very successful and beloved priest murders someone in cold blood (there is a similarity here with Trump's incompetence). Are you saying that because he did good deeds before, he should be forgiven his murder??Yes, I know. I gave you a list of accomplishments, you provided a link talking about other things and think that shows he has done nothing. You even go on to now claim he is killing people - yet another lie from a Trump copy.
What else should I expect? Certainly not a rational, well thought out analysis of his performance!I searched on accomplishment and found this:
He is cutting illegal border crossings --> AFTER increasing them well above what Obama left him
He is promoting fair trade agreements --> I don't know about the "fair" part of that but he has broken many trade promises America has previously made to other nations - terrible{/b]
He has taken China to task for intellectual theft --> [b]I will agree with that, but so have previous presidents
He promotes America rather than other countries --> As has every President before him, so what is new?
His actions produced the lowest unemployment seen in decades and the lowest black unemployment ever. --> Only after Obama gave him a great start on that path. On the other hand, Obama had to take an almost depression and skyrocketing unemployment and turn it around leading to the Longest recover in American history which brought with it the lowest unemployment in a very long time as well as the longest unbroken string of employment gains in history. Trump can make No Such Claim, can he?
Bottom line, it is OBAMA who did great stuff, Trump has done, well, nothing. And now he is killing Americans with his terrible response to Covid."AFTER increasing them well above what Obama left him"
You mean after Trump improved the economy so that there was more incentive to enter than ever before? Leaving out a vital part of the information, aren't you? The whole story is usually important, you know.
"He has taken China to task for intellectual theft --> I will agree with that, but so have previous presidents"
Perhaps they did, though I certainly never heard of it. And the result of their actions? The Chinese never changed a thing and kept right on stealing. If nothing else we got a better trade deal out of Trump's effort - the others just got China to sell us more while accepting excuses for them to buy less.
"As has every President before him, so what is new?"
Of course, as Obama apologized the world round for US actions, as he gave in to every demand made and financed the rest of the world on our dollar. As he made trade agreements favoring everyone but the US. Right!
And finally, of course Obama is responsible for the lowest unemployment in recent history. And of course he did wonders for Black unemployment. The only thing Obama did was buy his way out of a recession - a tried and true tactic, though under his great leadership we got nothing for it. No new infrastructure, no new museums or highways...nothing but richer banks and corporations. At least in the past we got dams, the interstate highway system, etc. Obama gave us nothing.
But that's what I said, isn't it? You will give Obama credit for everything Trump has accomplished. Does it make you happy to spin it into what it isn't, just to demonize Trump?No, I don't mean after Trump "improved" the economy. His record is no better, and in some ways is worse, than Obama's (and now its worse) so that does NOT qualify as an improvement.
-- Trump NEVER had 5% quarterly growth - Obama did once
-- Trump NEVER had 4% quarterly growth - Obama did three times.
-- Trump NEVER had quarterly growth > 3..5% - Obama did six times
-- Trump's net trade is worse than Obama's
So tell me something that is true.
What proof do you have that China has changed their ways regarding intellectual property after Trump bankrupt so many farmers with his trade war?
I don't give Obama credit for anything Trump has accomplished - mainly because Trump has not accomplished anything that is noteworthy.
"Of course, as Obama apologized the world round for US actions, as he gave in to every demand made and financed the rest of the world on our dollar ..." - THAT, of course, are longstanding FALSE conservative talking points.
"As he made trade agreements favoring everyone but the US. Right!" - THAT is not true either, just a Trump lie.
"And finally, of course Obama is responsible for the lowest unemployment in recent history. " - WHERE did I say that???? You are making things up again. Just to REFRESH your memory I said something like "Obama set the stage for the results that have occured during Trump's administration. So long as the next president didn't screw things up too bad, ANY president would have seen the same results. Trump didn't screw things up enough to alter the downward unemployment slope.
"The only thing Obama did was buy his way out of a recession" - YOUR implication is that that was a bad thing. You must be REALLY pissed at Trump now for "buying" his way out of the covid crisis.
"No new infrastructure, " - Thanks to the Republican Congress. It is not like Obama and the Democrats didn't try.
As to what Obama "gave" us, I offer this
http://hub.me/ablPBOf course - Obama had a recession to recover from, making it fairly easy to have high GPD numbers. Trump reached employment/unemployment numbers not seen for decades, if ever, and GDP numbers everyone predicted we would never see again, but it was because of Obama's work in over regulating and over taxing business which encouraged business to expand/return to the country. Makes perfect sense! (That's sarcasm if you didn't pick it up.)
"And finally, of course Obama is responsible for the lowest unemployment in recent history. " - WHERE did I say that????
You missed the sarcasm; Obama did nothing of the sort yet you give him credit for it anyway.
No, Obama did the right thing by buying his way out of the recession. I just wish we had something show for the expenditure - in previous times we did, but we have nothing to show for Obama's spending. No new infrastructure, no new space accomplishments, nothing but more money for huge corporations and, of course, his worthless ACA that did nothing to add to health care for any but a tiny minority while spending billions.Wilderness: What does Trump have to show for all of his spending? Answer: No new infrastructure, no new space accomplishments, nothing but more money for huge corporations ...Funny I just copied that from your reply.
Are you trying to insinuate that the "virus stimulus" is in the same category, the same type of action, as a recession recovery?
Gotta love that "nothing but more money for huge corporations" as I open my $2400 stimulus check. As my neighbor sits home drawing more in unemployment that he was earning. As my daughter in law applies for a grant to help her small business. Typical spin and falsehood from the liberal side.Wilderness: You do know there is no such thing as a free lunch? There is a price we pay for everything. Here is Trump's debt and counting.
[url=usdebtclock.org/url]Wilderness: You do know there is no such thing as a free lunch. There is a price we pay for everything. Here is Trump's debt and counting. The federal debt to GDP ratio in 2000 was 58.14%. It is now 116.60%. But it's O.K. because Trump doesn't deal in numbers, except the ones he makes up.
https://usdebtclock.org/
" Obama had a recession to recover from, making it fairly easy to have high GPD numbers. " - THAT might be true if we were talking about 2010 or 2011, which you are clearly ignoring. But the fact is from 2012 on, we were recovered and that is when Obama had all of those great numbers, numbers Trump has never achieved.
"You missed the sarcasm; Obama did nothing of the sort yet you give him credit for it anyway." - AND WHERE did I give him credit for it other than setting the stage??? YOU are making things up again.
" I just wish we had something show for the expenditure" - SO YOU think:
-- The longest period of GDP growth in American history is nothing?
-- The longest period of consecutive job growth in American history is nothing?
-- Record breaking stock market recovery is nothing?
Amazing!!
Yet you think Trump policies that bankrupt farmers is a good thing
Yet you think Trump policies that directly lead to many deaths of men, women, and children are a good thing?
Yet you think that making an enemy of the world is a good thing?
Yet you think politicizing the Justice Department, DOD, the Intel community and every other thing Trump sets his eyes on is a good thing?
Yet you think giving tax breaks to corporations so they can buy back their stock and pay their overpaid executives even more money is a good thing?
Yet you think giving millionaires and billionaires huge tax breaks while giving 99% of the rest of Americans next to nothing is a good thing?
Yet you think denying millions of people adequate (or even any) health insurance is a good thing?
What an interesting, upside down world you live in Wilderness.All I can say to this list of imagination is to wonder how you will spin it to give Obama the credit when our economy recovers from the virus shutdown. Better start working on that - it won't be easy. I'm sure you will find a way, though.
Do you believe Trump will mount a fast economic recovery? He didn't have to before....
I believe the economy will take at least a year to recover. Perhaps much more, depending on if we see another surge in the virus.
No, all he had to do before was produce an economy and workforce the likes of which we hadn't seen for decades. And if you are black, the likes of which we had NEVER seen.He inherited a growing economy, Dan. He didn't simply "produce" it. Now we'll see what a stable genius he really is.
Right. Growing at a snails pace, in the slowest recession/depression recovery in history. And he turned out the highest employment/lowest unemployment if most of our memories.
But that was Obama's work, of course, when he produced that snail like recovery, right?We'll see how well he does with a recession like Obama inherited from Dubya.....perhaps. But we may see the same thing several democrat POTUS's had to deal with after conservative administrations ruined the economy.
Should have seen that coming, shouldn't I? Always the "conservative administrations" ruining the economy as liberals turn us into a socialistic state with no rewards for hard work and no reason to keep business in the country.
Wilderness: What do you call the stimulus checks? They are pure socialism and the biggest part of them go to corporations. Conservatives create the financial mess and liberals end up bailing them out.
It happened with Reagan, and George W. Why, because they deregulate the financial markets so corporations can get their big bucks. Look what Paulson did with his bailout, he paid off the commissions to all the banks and mortgage companies that were involved in sub-prime and all the other exotic instruments. That is what Obama inherited and cleaned it up for Trump.You forgot to mention that banks and mortgage companies were required to make too many sub-prime mortgages, required by congress. Or that banks objected, saying it could not be sustained.
Or does that tiny portion of "The Whole Story" not fit with only conservatives ruining the economy and must be left out as a result?Wilderness: Who was in control of congress at the time? It was the Bliely Leach Gramm Act, all republicans who removed the last remnants of the Glass Stegall Act which prevented banks and investment companies from co-mingle their assets. That is the whole story. Without that, there would have been no sub-prime mortgages and other exotic instruments to scre*w the public. They thought they could mitigate the risk by repacking loans into Collateralize Debt Obligations. But it didn't work...did it? You can thank your conservative buddies for that.
Yes it was. All those bad loans "trickled" down to bite us all and create the biggest recession since the 30's.
Indeed, damn those democrats controlling congress and the WH during these times!
Unlike your modus operandi (always assign blame to Trump, anyone not on the bandwagon bashing him and any Republican in general) I made no mention of the party of the majority in congress. Only that the President was not guilty of doing anything wrong (except perhaps signing the bills). I didn't even assign blame, except to congress as a whole; the entity that caused the damage.
I thought we were discussing causes of bad economies the Dem. POTUS's inherited? I didn't mention Trump in the past recessions either.
Give me an example of the last Dem. POTUS who inherited a growing economy from the Right?No, we were discussing the causes of the last big recession and whether it was the fault of the then president, as was implied.
Okay, then I blame Dubya and his go-along-with Congress both. The Left had very little chance of ruining the economy as they were basically powerless during this time.
Randy, I know you will hate me, but if you blame Bush, you have to blame Clinton as well - he signed the infamous bill that repealed Glass-Stengal.
I'll give them both a bit of credit then. Where credit is due...but then there was Haliburton to throw into the equation. I'd never heard of a no-bid contract before they received one. It smelled to high heaven when the VP's old company got the job.
This cost an untold amount of money to be syphoned off by Bush's cronies, not to mention the Katrina fiasco. It all adds up.I was a career civil servant (Air Force) and worked as a cost and economic analyst in support of procurement.
Yes, there are certain "no-bid" contracts but they have to meet stringent criteria. One is that it must be proved there is no other alternative. Somehow, I bet there were many alternatives to Halliburton since they don't have a unique skill set. So yes, it smells as did many of the Katrina contracts did.Those $14 peanut butter sandwiches were superb during Katrina! Along with the $50 cases of coke made in-country during Desert Storm. Haliburton charged $1200 a day for guards, then subcontracted the jobs out to another contractor who took his cut and passed the jobs on to another contractor, and so on through more contractors until the last one paid $125 a day for African security people.
In other words, the US paid Haliburton an extra $1075 a day for a $125 job. Just a tiny example of huge sums being wasted to feather the pockets of Dubya's cronies. Brilliant economics!
For sure. The president created and passed those ridiculous laws forcing sub-par loans onto banks. Makes perfect sense that he would simply by-pass congress, sneak into the federal register, and write in those laws and rules.
Did you miss the word "Congress" in my comment?
"Makes perfect sense that he would simply by-pass congress, sneak into the federal register, and write in those laws and rules." - Why not?? Trump does it all of the time. If he could, he would get rid of Congress as an impediment to his imperial rule.
Also Randy, remember that Wilderness has no problem with Red-Lining; it is just one of those things blacks have to live with because they are lower on the social hierarchy (NOT!)
Whether Republican or Democrat, it was NOT the president. Which is what you implied when you blamed the White House for what happened.
No, it is NOT the "whole story". The "whole story" includes congressional rules passed to include a requirement that far too high a percentage of sub par loans had to be made, forcing loan institutions to make low quality loans. And the banks reply to those rules, replies that told congress what would happen with the misbegotten attempt to ensure everybody could have a house whether they could pay for it or not. And then DID happen.
The rest came AFTER - AFTER the damage was done with thousands of loans made to people that could not make the payments.
And YOU forgot to mention that those loans where but a small percentage of all of the bad subprime mortgages. So try again at addressing "The Whole Story".
Unfortunately, that is not true. Subprime mortgages cannot be a subset of subprime mortgages.
I suppose you could support, to at least some degree, that variable rate mortgages absolutely destined to rise to an unsustainable level of interest is a subset, but you must then also claim that people are to stupid to do simple arithmetic. Is that your claim?Are you saying that every subprime loan 1) was given to people with bad credit with no ability to pay back or 2) failed??
I am not the fool you think I am; there are virtually no cases of 100% in anything to do with human interaction and that includes financial matters.
Well it sounded like 100% . I am not sure else to take "Unfortunately, that is not true. Subprime mortgages cannot be a subset of subprime mortgages." in response to my true statement that the subprimes to prevent Redlining by some banks is only a small percentage of the total subprimes issue.
So what is the percentage of Redline subprimes which you claim caused the 2008 Great Recession? Is it 90%? 80%? 70%? What is it?
One of the six common causes behind ALL major financially-based recessions are:
1. Greed
2. Easy Credit (gov't policy)
3. An asset which people find valuable (most of time this is some form of real estate) causing an asset bubble
4. Uncontrolled speculation on that asset (gov't policy)
5. A poorly regulated financial sector (gov't policy)
6. A precipitating action which bursts the asset bubble.
In almost all cases, if any one of these six are missing, there will be no recession, or if there is one, it will be minor.
https://hubpages.com/politics/A-Short-H … eir-Causes
"Always the "conservative administrations" ruining the economy " - [b]Historically, that is true.
From my hub and book:
* Depression of 1807
* Depression of 1815
* Recession of 1822
* Panic of 1825
* Long Depression of 1873 - 1885
* Panic 1896
* Recession of 1921
* Great Depression on 1929
* Recession of 1958 followed by the Recession of 1960
* Recession of 1973
* Great Recession of 2008
The couple of recessions before 1807 where from external causes and the few recessions in between the dates listed were from non-financial causes (like Covid will be for the Recession of 2020) or under liberal Republican admininstration.
So, do you want to rethink your position on the goodness of conservative economics?
Right, growing at a small, BUT SUSTAINABLE pace. You forgot some key words there.
You also forgot to mention Trump is also growing, at least through 2019, at a small, but sustainable pace. Why did you forget to mention that? Because it makes Trump look bad in your eyes.
BTW - I do not put the current economic crises on Trump like I do the previous one on Conservatives. What I will "probably" put on him is how deep and long it will be through his very slow and counterproductive response. I need more data to be sure.
What is without question Trump's fault is thousands of needless deaths because his chaotic response and lack of leadership.I have asked on these forums several times just what the poster would have done as President, given the same information and political climate Trump has, during the first month or two of the Corona problem. Not a single person has answered with anything...except "I would have followed the playbook" with giving any specific information.
Can you do better? Given the circumstances, what would YOU have done? And precisely how would it have saved "thousands of needless deaths"?DEFLECTION, but I will answer anyway (I am talking about January actions)
1. I would have set up the coronavirus task force as soon as I have been briefed that a pandemic was coming. And put a scientist in charge (or at the very least Azar)
2. I would have gathered the governors and developed a comprehensive national plan on how the nation was going to respond
3. I would have immediately started the hunt for a vaccine in America
4. I would have accepted the WHO testing protocol while developing one ourselves.
5. I would have gotten the ball rolling to ramp up to testing whatever the number scientists said was need, which I think is now in excess of 500,000 a day. In April, the average is 146,000 per day. So much for Trump's statement that we don't need anymore testing.
6. I would not have Downplayed the seriousness of the pandemic as Trump has done and still doing
7. I would have shown national leadership from day on.
8. I would have opened up the national stockpile (which belongs to Americans, btw) in January.
In February when we saw how things were spreading all over the world, I would have put in more comprehensive travel restriction on all incoming flights.
Trump did none of those things.Then you are a fool.
1) You would spend millions of dollars...on a report from the lying Chinese that there was a disease that might spread.
2) You would have spent millions more in personal meetings with governors over a matter with any specifics at all, and without any knowledge of what might be required.
3) You would have started a hunt for a vaccine...without any information of what it would be for. No DNA, no samples, no nothing.
4) You would accept the protocols from a political entity more interest in protecting China than the world.
5) You would have "gotten the ball rolling" to ramp up testing. Sure you would...without having a test to use.
6) You would have scared the country witless with endless claims of armageddon.
7) You don't have any leadership to show, given your response to 1-6.
8) You would have given the entire stockpile to NYC. A great move...if you care more for politics than anything else.
You would have increased restrictions on incoming flights...and been sued silly by Americans all over the world including those in this country that wanted relatives from Europe, Australia, and anywhere the pandemic had taken a hard hold.
A great plan...if reality is not a part of it and you're willing to kill the economy on reports of a "what if" from China.1) No, unlike you I listened to the healthcare professionals..
2) Given all of the briefings Trump received I suspect there was quite a bit of information available.
3) There was all of that available - that is why they new it came from bats
4) Shows how much you know. The protocols WHO was offering were developed by Germany
5) There was a test to use in January.
6.) There you go making things up again. I didn't say there was going to be an armageddon now did I? I said I wouldn't LIE to America like Trump has.
7.) How do you know that??
8) Again you are making things up - why do you keep saying that. I said no such thing now did I?3) My bad - I had thought the DNA was available only later on.
But why would you claim no one was working on a vaccine? "Backed by a fresh $9 million grant from the Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovations (CEPI), which receives money from public and private funding, Inovio Pharmaceuticals will begin developing the vaccine along with University of Pennsylvania-based research facility, the Wistar Institute, to ensure that it is available within the next few months."
There were at least 2.
https://www.foxnews.com/health/coronavi … sequencing
published Jan 29. Or were they just lying in that report?
Or were you saying that Trump (and you) should have hit his private bio lab and done the work himself, as you would have done?Sometime in January is when first I heard they had traced the DNA back to the bats because of its very close similarity to SARS.
I didn't say NO vaccine was being sought, just not by Trump. He didn't start his search until much later (sometime in February). The fact that some of the companies you mention receive public money doesn't mean it was a Trump initiative.
And now Trump is ignoring the international effort and going it alone (China seems to be doing the same thing)I recall the bats. I also recall hearing, later on, that it likely isn't true.
As far as trying for a vaccine, the CDC was working on it early on. Again, what do you expect Trump to do: hide out in his private lab until he finds one? He gave the task to our very best to find a solution; that they haven't done so is his fault, right?I heard the same thing ... from right-wing pendents. I listen to the scientist. Did you know your side is waging a war against Remdesivir? Bad-mouthing it ever chance they get.
Wrong again. All Trump had to do was continue what Obama started. ANY president after Obama, assuming they didn't screw up the economy, would have have had the same result as Trump (but without all of the farm bankruptcies he caused)
Without question, had Clinton won and we had the exact same economy as Trump had in 2019, without the trade war, Conservatives would be whining about how poorly it is doing. They would ask were are the 4% quarters Obama had? Where are the 5% quarters.Sure they would have. After all, business wants massive regulation, tremendous taxes of their profits and trade policies favoring every nation but the US. That's why they never left the country for greener pastures, after all!
Surely you can imagine just how foolish such statements are?Businesses and you want no regulation, the environment, social justice, fair play be damned. After all, you are a social Darwinian.
In any case, businesses seemed to be doing just fine under those so-called "massive regulations" now weren't they . And now that they are all gone, they aren't doing any better, are they? And now, pollution of all types is starting to rise. (It took coronavirus to clean the air temporarily),
And those so-called "tremendous taxes" fallacy. Why is it that the average corporate rate was about 18%?? Why did all that tax refund get spent on stock buybacks making stock owners wealthier and on much higher salaries to overpaid senior executives. Why DIDN'T they reinvest the money like was promised?Sure, businesses were doing just fine...as they left the country in droves. Doing fine in their new digs across the ocean.
Perhaps the average corporate tax rate was 18% because there no profits to be made.
Buying stock, whether in a company your already control or in a totally new one, IS an investment.Boy, what an unreality you live in.
Corporations were doing great after Obama beat the Great 2008 Conservative Recession into submission. Record profits for many corporations
Buying back your own stock by DEFINITION is not investment by any stretch. I is simply a way to drive up stock prices. In any case, the GDP reports are pretty clear there was no investment.Sure they were. After they took their manufacturing and operations overseas so they could earn something. Can you possibly believe that high taxes and regulation produce higher profits (for the one regulated and taxed, not their competition)?
Of course buying stock is not an "investment"...if you never gamble. For the millions that do gamble in the market it is considered an investment.Wilderness: Let's be clear. All of Trump's decision making and actions about the Corona Virus are based on how he can best get re-elected. He could care less about the people. He does not have the capacity for compassion and empathy.
His attacks, lashing out of to his opponents, firing the deputy IG's his delays, his controlling the press briefings and turning them into a campaign rallies, is for one thing only to get re-elected.
He laments about his great economy and presidency like King Arthur in Camelot. What he needs to do is put aside his politics and save the people. But he is not capable of doing that. So therefore, he is not the kind of leader we need right now. He and his staff don't have the right stuff to lead us out of this crisis."All of Trump's decision making and actions about the Corona Virus are based on how he can best get re-elected."
Nice statement. You have proof of his intentions? Or is just another opinion, based on a dislike of him? This kind of thing, being presented as factual, is yet another example of spin and untruth presented by you. You asked for a sample; here is one. The next paragraph is another.Wilderness: Here is the difference between an effective leader and Trump. Yes it is my observation, but also verifiable. If you watch the real news instead of Trump's state run propaganda channels.
Coumo’s Leadership:
1. He is analytical
2. Data driven
3. Unemotional
4. Compassionate
5. Empathetic
6. Answer questions truthfully
7. Is articulate
8. Plans for coming events
9. Supports his people
10. Apolitical
11. Uses powerpoints with graphs and charts to explain complex issues
12. Delegates responsibility
13. Makes decisions about the virus based on data and the science
14. If makes mistake will blame himself
15. Understands supply chain issues and tries to work around them
Trump’s Leadership
1. Lies constantly
2. Exaggerates constantly
3. Is impulsive
4. Requires constant self-adoration
5. Attacks those who criticize him
6. Plays the victim
7. Is revengeful
8. Does not support his people
9. Has constant turnover of staff
10. Inarticulate
11. Goes off script
12. Fakes amnesia
13. Is not a team player
14. Hates the science and data of the virus and makes decisions based on his gut feelings
15. Does not know how to use powerpoints
16. Uses tariffs to punish China
17. Starts and believes in conspiracy theories against him
18. Believes he is the supreme leader
19. Plays to his base’s fantasies
20. Motivation is politically driven to get re-elected
21. Has no plan, but decrees orders
22. Does not understand supply chain issues and has no work-around.
23. If makes mistake will blame othersYou forgot to include that Cuomo will cry and stomp his feet until he has all the resources of the nation stored in his warehouses. The rest of the people mean nothing to him.
I particularly like that Trump sees conspiracies against him...as the media conspires to spin everything the show against him. And, of course, it is [ii]extremely[/i] important to be proficient in PowerPoint - what is a leader that can't make a powerpoint presentation?And Trump will play his usual blame game and "poor me" trying to get sympathy from his base. Everyone else sees through it...
Trump supporters buy it hook, line, and sinker.
Wilderness: Powerpoint is a means of communication to the public. As they say a picture is worth a thousand words. Cuomo uses power points to explain complex concepts like R naught to the public.
If they understand that, they understand how quickly this virus can spread. I don't believe Trump can still explain what it is. If you ever watched Cuomo's presentations, you would understand how important they are and not use sarcasm to belittle them.
Trump would probably make a good leader in a war where his men are trapped and it is a do or die situation that they come out with all guns blazing. That is the kind of leader he is. All or nothing at all and totally fanatical to take out his enemy.That's what I said (although sarcastically) - a president that can't produce a fine powerpoint presentation is no president at all. Only a president that can do that can understand how quickly a virus can spread - being able to use that software is a vital part of understanding pandemics and viruses.
I trust you understand how silly that sounds. How did we ever function without Microsoft?The president doesn't want fine PowerPoint presentations. He has thrown many a briefer out of his office for using such help aids to help him understand something. Problem is, he just doesn't want to understand as has been obvious to even a casual observer.
Wilderness: I hate to tell you this. If you think that power points are used to calculate how fast a virus can spread, then you have just shown your ignorance as to what that software is about. However it is used by scientist and other professionals who want to present complex concepts to their viewing audience.
As far as Trump's science ability goes, please read this.
Trump says he shares his famed uncle’s science genius. A friend says the uncle ‘would have been horrified.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics … r-BB13z5ohWilderness: Feast your eyes on this. This is what a professional leader does.
https://www.fastcompany.com/90483382/th … owerpointsYou're the one that gave a powerpoint presentation as an example of great leadership, not me. You're the one that insinuated it is necessary for controlling the virus, not me.
I found it ridiculous and said so.Wilderness: I never said that. Please copy and paste where I said that. How in the h*ll is presentation software going to be used to control the virus? That isn't even an argument but does show your desperation to defend this out of control president.
Not the presentation itself; the ability to create that presentation. You promote it as a great value Obama had and Trump doesn't. Although I have grave doubts that Obama created any himself - he merely used tools someone else created.
(Do you need me to copy/paste what you wrote?)Wilderness: It's apparent you know nothing about powerpoints. It doesn't matter who creates them. It could be the art department or graphics department. It is the contents that is given the them is what is important and how they are presented by the user. It's apparent Trump has none of the skills or resources.
Here is what he presented on April 13 at the task force briefing. That's his extent of using graphics media. It was to aggrandize him and to put down others. It had nothing to do with the briefing. He was using the briefings time slot to campaign for himself.
https://youtu.be/LUXsgVA8lN8
https://youtu.be/ZUfV1i62hKwAgain, it wasn't me that made the comment; it was you that put Obama's use (and implied creation) of the presentation as a necessary ability to be president and solve the Corona emergency.
I only poked fun at the idea.Wilderness: O.K. Now i'm going to ask you to copy and paste where I said that. You are saying I implied that. But it was by your inference that you came to that conclusion. How you interpret what I said is your problem not mine.
You know why the real media doesn't like Trump? Because from the very beginning of his term, he has called them the fake news, when in fact, they are the real news and the fake news is really Trump's propaganda channel.
If you were a reporter or a journalist that was trying to do a good job, how would you like to be called the fake news?
Fox news is run by the Murdoch family who's mission is to denigrate democrats and promote republicans and now Trump. The virus could care less who's side you are on, but Trump and his cohorts want to make this political so that he can get re-elected at the cost of forsaking human lives as long as he can get his economy up and running. He is very dangerous at this point in time. What would you rather have an economy or saving lives?Sure! Under Cuomo's great leadership (re: Corona Virus) we see:
"11. Uses powerpoints with graphs and charts to explain complex issues"
Under Trump's lack of leadership we find:
"15. Does not know how to use powerpoints" (although I would submit you haven't a clue if he can or not; only that he has not done so in the past with his media reports.)
https://hubpages.com/education/forum/34 … ost4136616
Want to try again and claim you didn't say it?
The rest of your post here once more degrades into simply bashing Trump or anyone remotely connected to him. Not interested. Whether I would rather have an economy (albeit one so poor people die from starvation or other facets of extreme poverty) or not has zero to do with such foolish comments as the ability to use Powerpoint is necessary to provide leadership in a pandemic response.
Watched the lady on his team and her "show and tell" (don't recall if a paper graph or powerpoint) the other day and got tired of having the camera ignore her presentation and focus solely on her fact. Apparently the media doesn't find such things valuable, no matter what you think.Wilderness: "11. Uses powerpoints with graphs and charts to explain complex issues" - What's wrong with that? It's a fact and I showed you how he uses them effectively to communicate to his audience.
"15. Does not know how to use powerpoints" (although I would submit you haven't a clue if he can or not; only that he has not done so in the past with his media reports.) - Until he does, it is fair to say he doesn't
So you look at one instance of a lady using powerpoints and the camera doesn't focus on her powerpoints. Therefore, all power points presentations are not effective and the media doesn't find them valuable. That sounds like your logic.Why do you keep insisting I said powerpoint is not for viruses or not effective?
I've made it plain (very plain) that I neither said nor meant anything of the sort; I only take umbrage at your statement (or implication if you wish) that the ability to do so is necessary to be a good leader in dealing with the virus. While stating that you know Trump is incapable of doing so because you haven't seen him do it.
No, it is NOT "fair" to say he is ignorant of how to use it because you haven't seen him do it. That is exactly the kind of twisted logic you use to show him as a fool, but is rife with logical error.
It is this type of nonsense "You forgot to include that Cuomo will cry and stomp his feet until he has all the resources of the nation stored in his warehouses. The rest of the people mean nothing to him." that destroys any credibility you have as a thoughtful person.
Trump is now trying to can the HHS inspector general who recently put out a Covid report that contradicted Trump.
It is an ability that most human beings have to connect the dots.
Isn't it your "opinion" that we ar basing Trump because we keep pointing ot all of lies, distortions, misdirection, and false statements.
Aren't connecting those dots and drawing the conclusion we hate Trump, which in my case is false. I can hate his actions but I can't hate a man so mentally ill he can't help himself.
He is no better than a drug addict, except in this case his drug is himself with his extreme narcissism.
BTW, what percent of American businesses made the unpatriotic choice of moving their headquarters to another nation in order to get tax advantages? Was it 1%, 2%? I know it wasn't very many.
You need to take some courses on the stock market.
The "Investment" comes when a company either starts up or issues new stock in order to raise capital. Any other time, it is simply 1) trading around assets and provides zero money to the company traded or 2) buying back stock to (money you just paid to others) reduce the number of outstanding shares in the market with the hope of raising the per share price of the stock. In the latter case, that is pure greed on the part of company doing the buyback on behalf of the shareholders. Not one dime goes into the company's coffers - [b]in fact, it is a way to get rid of excess capital (like from the GOPTaxScam giveaway.
You didn't explain why the amount of investment did increase, per the GDP figures, after the GOPTaxScam?
That leads to an interesting question. While Obama's (and Bush's - I will give credit where credit is due) actions unquestionably led to stopping a depression from happening and the mess conservative economics got us into, I think it can be fairly said that Trump won't do anything to get us out of this debacle - in fact, he keeps doing things to make it worse.
Now, why do I say that? Because he has purposefully abdicated his leadership responsibilities over to the governors and local leaders. (In a failed hope that by passing the buck will help him win in November)
As to how fast the economy will recover - I do not have high hopes. While there is, as of yet, no inherent weakness in the economy like there was in 2008, Trump's lack of action and many governor's attempts to restart the economy of their states will make things worse and introduce a structural weakness that will be much harder to overcome.
Fauci and others are predicting a resurgence this Fall, Americans are left with two choices: 1) shut down the economy again and 2) accept many more deaths in order to go to work. Until there is a vaccine or a cure or until enough people have been infected (and can't recatch it) to reach herd immunity, it would seem to me to be a binary choice.
Personally, I don't think we need to wait until Fall for a regeneration of cases. The 30 some governors who are reopening will do that for us. I hope I am wrong but I fully expect to see by May 15, a sharp increase of cases, and by May 31, deaths from this virus.
Bottom line, until people can go about their daily business without fear of getting really sick or dying from the virus, the economy will never recover to what it use to be.
One of these days I hope you make sense, Wilderness
Fair enough - I feel the same way about you. When you finally climb down off your bandwagon (presumably when a Democrat takes the office) you may finally quit spinning everything to make false claims that Trump has done nothing but bad. Probably not, but we can hope.
Show me where I spin. Show me were I exaggerate (unless it is sarcasm). Show me where I tell falsehoods.
When have I EVER said Trump has done NOTHING but bad. I can show you were I have said he has done a few good things, because he has; just nothing major.I did. You just didn't like it so diverted into something else.
No you didn't. You just pointed out things you called "spin" which really wasn't, I told the Truth
Show me where I truly spun something by misleading or lying?You've seen them. You just don't like to discuss them and will change the topic every time.
Don't forget that Truth does not include your exaggerations, your spin, your assumptions or your opinions.
Oh gawwwwdddd, I know this is between you and Wilderness, but the temptation to respond to a comment such as yours is almost irresistible.
But . . . the force is a strong in this one. I will resist.
GA
Oh he embellishes some! Not as much as those trying SO hard to prove he lies or has done nothing, but yes, he embellishes.
He "embellishes" some??? LOLOLOLOL I know you are being sarcastic now.
Well, he may not be up to your level, but he has been know to occasionally embellish, spin and exaggerate.
"Oh he embellishes some! "
I nominate this comment as the understatement of the decade.I don't know I'd go that far. That "the media is biased" is a strong contender for the "understatement of the decade", as is "it's just another flu bug". Or even "China is not our friend".
Well, I'll just mention a couple of the points in your link.
"Trump boasted that the “unemployment rate for women reached the lowest level in almost 70 years.” That’s true, but it had been trending down for several years before he took office. "
So what he said was true.
"The president boasted that “a long, tall, and very powerful wall is being built” along the southern border, and more than 100 miles have been completed. But only one mile is located where no barriers previously existed."
This, too, is then true. Odd, as well, that no mention was made of just what that previous barrier was - was it a single strand of barbed wire on falling down posts?
"Trump said “illegal crossings” at the southwest border “are down 75% since May.” But total apprehensions in 2019 were 81% higher than in 2016, the year before Trump took office."
This one is a nice change of topic, from total illegal crossings to how many were caught. No indication of whether crossings were down or not, then.
"Trump said “300,000 working age people” left the workforce during Obama’s eight years. Actually, the workforce grew by 5.4 million."
Again, a deflection and change of topic. The workforce can grow (by illegal aliens as an example) while working age Americans leave it. No indication his statement was false, then.
This is a major problem with what you continually produce as evidence of "TRUMP LIES". Spin (such as the first one), deflection into something else and outright falsehoods. You need to take far more care in what you produce as "evidence".
(Incidentally, my points were NOT from his SOU speech - they came from gathering facts over years.Again we see a lot of examples of how Wilderness takes things literally, to a fault, and comes up with the wrong answers.
Context - Trump has spent four years tearing down everything Obama did and not giving him credit for the the things he can't destroy - like a history of falling unemployment numbers.
Wilderness appears too naive to understand that when Trump is bragging about low unemployment numbers, he is stating that he, and only he, is responsible for them. As far as he is concerned, unemployment was very high when he took office.
As to the wall - Trump PROMISED to build 1,950 miles of impenetrable wall between Mexico and the US. He also promised that Mexico would PAY for it. In the SOU in February, he claimed that 100 miles of new wall have been built. He again claimed it in April. Both were LIES. Almost all of the 100 miles that have been finished are REPLACEMENT barriers. He might have built a few miles of brand new wall.
"Again, a deflection and change of topic. The workforce can grow (by illegal aliens as an example) while working age Americans leave it. No indication his statement was false, then." - TALK ABOUT not defending Trump. That is an absurd statement Wilderness.
SO just to take YOUR claim literally, as you love to do, what you just implied is that 5.4 million illegal aliens joined the American workforce while 300,000 working age American citizens left it. Again - absurd."Reading between the lines", Eso? In order to make accomplishments look like failures? I noticed as well you didn't list just what kind of "wall" was replaced so I'll ask again - was it a strand of barbed wire on rotting posts as we see so many pictures of? Was what he replaced effective to a high percentage?
Yes, he promised. And perhaps he'll deliver - have you forgotten Obama promised health insurance for everyone...and then said he would have to win re-election (which turned out to be true) as soon as he was in office? Plus, of course, Congress voted in his abomination whereas it does everything possible to stall Trumps plan to shut down illegal border crossings.
And no, I implied nothing of the sort. It was very (very!) plainly listed as just one possibility. One example of how the numbers could turn out the way they did. Could be legal immigrants (we got millions in during Obama's reign, after all) and he made it possible for millions more of illegal aliens to work legally. More spin from you, with false allegations, but it didn't work, did it?
Except there were no fallicies. That is Trump's way of doing things, not ours.
Right. No fallacies at all. Except the lies, the exaggerations and the spun reports of what was meant. Just like Trump's normal method of communicating.
You claim you know that not a single person told him that. You know it.
Yes, that is exactly Trump's tactics; lie, spin and exaggerate for you know nothing of the kind and know that as well as I do.
Once more, I did not defend Trump; I commented on your statement when you made a claim you cannot begin to support in order to claim Trump lied.????? "You claim you know that not a single person told him that. " - WHO Claims that???
"Another Lie from 4/28/2020 - ""Many very good experts, very good people too, said this would never affect the United States,"
Ring a bell?Is that not a quote from your post? Where you claimed Trump lied? One you have zero ability to support?
What the hell are you talking about Wilderness? You are making zero sense.
"Another Lie from 4/28/2020 - ""Many very good experts, very good people too, said this would never affect the United States,"
How do you know what he was not told? Without bugging the White House, that is?
Because if he was told that it gives the lie to your statement?You do know who the quote if from, don't you WIlderness? It is Trump talking (or rather lying)
Yes. Trump said it. And you claimed, without proof, that it was false.
How did he lie but you didn't? That you don't know if his statement was true or not, but claimed it was not, is a lie in and of itself.
And what makes you deflect into proposing, falsely, somebody "bugged" the White House?
Regarding Trump's LIES about him doing a great job on Testing - at today's WH round table where CEO's pushed back on his Lie that the media is after him.
:"Early in the White House roundtable, Trump boasted of how well he says his administration has done in supplying ventilators and masks, saying you don't even hear about these issues anymore, and about how well he claims it has done on testing. He added, "And you shouldn't be hearing about testing, but that's the last thing they can complain about, I guess."
Talk about testing is not an anti-Trump scheme. Rather, it's talk about a matter vital to the country's future. Public health experts, who say the Trump administration was too slow to create an adequate testing system, have emphasized that conducting far more tests now is critical to limiting the further spread of the virus and safely lifting economic restrictions.
Republican governors and corporate executives have emphasized the same. When a reporter asked Wednesday if any of the executives present were worried people won't really come back to their businesses until there is a coronavirus vaccine, Nassetta spoke up -- and used the word "testing" three times.
Nassetta said "of course we worry about it." Customers are "desperate" to get back out and travel, he said, but want safety. He continued: "...Our customers are saying they're looking for the government, both state and federal government, to focus on testing so that they understand, you know, what real mortality rates are..."
Nassetta argued that more testing would help customers understand that people who are not elderly or infirm are probably at much lower risk than originally estimated. Then, after touting a new Hilton cleanliness program, Nassetta said his customers "want to know that people are being responsible. Right? They want to know that we are doing the testing, the social distancing..."
We still have a lot to learn about the coronavirus and mortality, and we know the virus can kill even younger people without serious health problems. Again, though, Trump had just said that you shouldn't even be hearing about testing. Here was a business leader, invited to the White House by Trump's own staff, talking repeatedly about the importance of testing while on camera with Trump."Another Trump LIE on 5/3/2020 ""I am greeted with a hostile press the likes of which no president has ever seen," Trump said at the Fox News town hall Sunday night.
"The closest would be that gentleman right up there," Trump said, pointing to the 16th President's statue. "They always said nobody got treated worse than Lincoln. I believe I am treated worse."
What is the LIE(s)? 1) He is faced with a hostile press (except for FakeFoxNews). They are Not hostile, they are all asking legitimate questions about things he has said and done. The fact that he doesn't like the questions doesn't make them hostile.
2) Since the press is asking reasonable questions then he couldn't be treated worse than some people think is the greatest president ever.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/04/politics … index.htmlThis comment looks to be one of opinion, so I thought I would chime in. I find it surprising that you would say that it is a lie that Pres. Trump is faced with a hostile press. And I think it is even more than generous that you say that press is only asking "reasonable" questions.
But wait, whether or not the president deserves a hostile press has no bearing on my comment. That too is an opinion question and I am not asking it or addressing it.
When a press has the bad manners to ask "hostile" questions that are not germane to the moment, in inappropriate settings—like a press meeting and photo-op with foreign leaders, I don't see how they cannot be viewed as hostile press.
They are almost like these forums, no matter the topic/occasion—it's 'get Trump time'.
Bottom line; it is only your opinion that his statement was a lie. You have no facts to back-up this one.
GAThe president was hostile. Nothing new there.
Was the question hostile?
"What do you say to Americans that are scared though? 200 are dead, nearly 14,000 who are sick, millions, as you witnessed, who are scared. What do you say to Americans who are watching you right now who are scared?"
Would this be the same question?
"What do you say to Americans who are watching you right now who are scared by this coronavirus?"
GAGA: He was just qualifying his question with data. With your question it gives Trump the opportunity to say something like, "there is nothing to worry about. It's under control." He would spin it into something that was a fantasy, which he loves to do. But Acosta's question gave him no room to do that, so he came back with a personal attack against Acosta.
5/5/20 Another misleading, $7 million ad put out be Trump campaign about Trump and Coronavirus. In it, a segment of a CNN (which Trump falsely thinks is fake news) where Wolf Blitzer and Dr. Gupta talk about state stay-at-home orders reducing the number of Covid deaths. The ad is cut and pasted together to make it seem like Trump's partial travel restrictions were responsible. CNN has sent a cease and desist order to remove the false advertising.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/04/media/tr … index.html
FACTOID: Between 18% (movie theaters) and 41% (golf courses) of Americans favor reopening certain businesses. The average seems to be about 28%.5/6/2020: While Trump honors a nurse, he embarrassed her on national television. When asked a question about availability of PPE, she tried to be PC by saying "I think it's sporadic," answered Sophia L. Thomas, president of the American Association of Nurse Practitioners. "I mean, I talk to my colleagues around the country. Certainly there are pockets around the country where PPE is not ideal, but this is an unprecedented time.
The infection control measures that we learned back when we went to school, one gown and one mask for one patient per day -- this is a different time," she said, adding that she has been reusing a single N95 mask for "a few weeks now."
PPE has been sporadic, but it's been manageable. And we do what we have to do," Thomas said. "We are nurses and we learn to adapt and do whatever we can do for our patients to get the job done and the care provided, and that's what we will continue to do as Covid-19 continues."
Trump immediately disputed her by saying ""Sporadic for you but not sporadic for a lot of other people," the President told her.(remember she is the head of the AANP and is speaking for many, many nurses)
Then he LIES by saying "Because I've heard the opposite," Trump said. "I have heard that they are loaded up with gowns now. We had empty shelves and empty nothing because it wasn't put there by the last administration.""Then he LIES by saying "Because I've heard the opposite," Trump said. "I have heard that they are loaded up with gowns now. We had empty shelves and empty nothing because it wasn't put there by the last administration."
Assuming you have proof of what Trump did not hear in order to call him a liar, we would like to see that proof. Link, please, proving that no one in the world told him that?Only when he tells us who these mysterious people are that tell him the opposite and supply their bona fides that they know what they are talking about. I believe the nurse over the pathological liar. I know you don't, but the I do.
BTW, the LIE is "they are loaded up with gowns" since there is no report of that being true (and that nasty nurse was talking about PPE in any case) it must be a lie. As to the "heard" part, that carries as much weight for truthfulness as when I say "I HEARD that Trump is a pediphile".
His "heard" is no better than mine.You made your own claim; support it with facts or back off of it.
Or is the LIE that no one has told him that?
Correct; his "heard" is no better than yours. So why was it a lie? Because your "heard" is better than his?Trump is a pathological liar. Consequently, anything he says is probably a lie, simple as that. Would you believe ANYTHING Un says, Hitler says, Hussein says, Stalin says? Trump is no different than them.
Also, many, many public reports that even YOU have seen supports the nurse and says Trump lied - AS USUAL.Is it a lie if you make claims about a person without being able to support them? Beyond, that is, "Well, they are a pathological liar so we know this was a lie, too."?
You might want to be a little cautious with spreading your opinions as truth without being able to support them with factual data. There ARE libel laws, you know.It is not my opinion, Wilderness, it is the conclusion of many mental health care professionals as well as the massive weight of provable lies.
This scientist has studied liars as a career - https://www.chicagotribune.com/opinion/ … story.html
Then we have one of your heros, Ted Cruz, saying Trump is a pathological liar - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz44wKK … 0&t=0s
Here is a very respected magazine doing an analysis of all the presidents lies. - https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar … us/608647/
This book by mental health experts lays out in each analysis how Trump is a pathological liar - it is a great read if you want the truth.
https://www.amazon.com/Dangerous-Case-D … 1250179459
This is an article from the author of the above book, Dr. Bandy Lee
https://www.salon.com/2020/03/23/dr-ban … rus-worse/
Here is a source for all of Trump's lies and false statements accumulated by a caring Canadian -
https://projects.thestar.com/donald-trump-fact-check/
I can get you a lot more if you need."Then we have one of your heros, Ted Cruz..."
OK, Mr. Trump-wannabe - I barely know who Ted Cruze is (a politician, I think, which would absolutely take him out of the "hero" category), let alone call him a hero. Doesn't stop you from following Trump's lead in lying, though, does it?
Or was just another insult because you have nothing else to say?You barely know who Senator and former presidential candidate Ted Cruz is???? Your credibility and veracity are now blown all to hell.
Based you your writings, Ted Cruz is you. And yes, it was an insult, I admit.
NOW, how about the rest of them or are you just going to keep on ignoring them as well as the TRUTH which Cruz spoke about Trump?
Wilderness:
politifact.com/factchecks/list/?speaker=donald-trump&ruling=falseNice side step. Is there a reason you don't want to discuss the question?
I notice, WIlderness, that you not only didn't sidestep all of the evidence I offered that Trump is a pathological liar, you simply ignored it. Then you falsely claim that PeoplePower did sidestep the question when he offered more evidence when he addressed it head on. Is that called two-faced or hypocrisy?
LOL Eso, you have posted claim after claim after claim about Trumps lies. And I have pointed out, time after time after time, that the ONLY way they could be called lies...is after spin, exaggeration and assumption by you. Just like the assumption that GA is ragging you about - that because you (and other Trump haters) think Trump is a pathological liar it means that you can claim anything you don't like to hear is a lie by him. Yes, I could probably have gone through every claim you made in the last bogus list, but you would just ignore them or claim you have the right to call them lies because you have decided you don't like the man.
As far as PP sidestepping: I asked a direct question and he responded with a link that was totally irrelevant to the question. It is, therefore, neither two faced OR hypocrisy.Wilderness: Please enlighten me. What was the question that you asked that I side-stepped?
What are lies (only one of which can be excused)
Error—a lie by mistake. The person believes they are being truthful, but what they are saying is not true.
Purposeful -- a lie made on purpose. The person knows they are being untruthful.
Omission – leaving out relevant information. Easier and least risky. It doesn’t involve inventing any stories. It is passive deception and less guilt is involved
.
Restructuring—distorting the context. Saying something in sarcasm, changing the characters, or the altering the scene.
Denial—refusing to acknowledge a truth. The extent of denial can be quite large—they may be lying only to you just this one time or they may be lying to themselves.
Minimization—reducing the effects of a mistake, a fault, or a judgment call.
Exaggeration—representing as greater, better, more experienced, more successful.
Fabrication—deliberately inventing a false story.
Trump does ALL of those almost ALL of the time!!!
5/7/2020: WH (Dr. Brix) asked for more guidelines from CDC to open safely. After receiving the 17-page report, Trump tossed it into the trash because it interfered with his politically-driven reopening goals. (My observation is "what guidelines"? Only a small handful of states are abiding by the original guidelines while the rest are telling Trump to take a hike (which he lets them do) and kill tens of thousands of extra Americans in the process.
Now Trump wants to add to that death toll in order to get re-elected.
https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/us-cor … index.html (you'll need to scroll down to get to the story)I think the most depressing thing about Donald Trump is not his simple lies and misconceptions about reality. But his lack of empathy. In times of crisis and human suffering, he is unable to grasp the emotional stress and grief many people have at this moment.
I think in times like these you need leaders who trust science and who have empathy and understanding with those working on the frontline. Those who have to work in Bakeries, food sores, hospitals, care homes, rubish collectors. Those are the people who work with risk for life but are hardly mentioned in the daily speeches Trump gives.
Trump never supported science. And the vice president is also not supporting science but thinks that praying is a vaccine.
This combination of not trusting science and not connecting with the emotions of the people on the ground has lead to a misunderstanding of the crisis and how to tackle it.
Take care and stay at home."In times of crisis and human suffering, he is unable to grasp the emotional stress and grief many people have at this moment."
Why do you say that? Because he is at the center of decision making, takes an objective stance and tries to make the best objective decision possible? One that is the best balance between the virus and the nation of people that are losing everything? Does he not show empathy because he will allow additional COVID deaths by not shutting down or because he will allow additional suffering from people without homes, savings or even food by shutting down?What I mean Wilderness is that in times of emotional stress people want compassion, Of course, a leader should make the best objective decision possible. But by doing so you can show empathy. Trump does not. You can do both. Explaining the tough decisions you have to make as a leader and caring for the people who are losing their jobs and relatives. I have not heard sincere empathy towards the ordinary people of the US who are risking their lives today.
Trump is not addressing the nation when he speaks. He is not speaking to you or about you. He is speaking about external factors and the number of ventilators.I doubt Trump has ever made a substantial "objective" decision. If fact, he is proud that he doesn't. How many times has he said he thinks with his stomach?
As you should have learned about the many authoritative books of how Trump operates, he is the opposite of "objective".
Let me remind everybody what the characteristics of Trump's Narcissistic Personality Disorder are:
1. Grandiose sense of self-importance - CHECK
2. Lives in a fantasy world that supports that sense of grandiosity - CHECK
3. Needs constant praise and admiration - CHECK
4. Exploits others without guilt or shame - CHECK (this includes pathological lying)
5. Frequently demeans, intimidates, bullies, or belittles others - CHECK
6. Reacts negatively to criticism. - CHECK
https://www.healthline.com/health/narci … r#symptoms
This fits Trump to a "T"
I have written a few hubs on this aspect of Trump based on the book by Dr. Bandi Lee The Dangerous Case of Donald TrumpYou may prefer compassion: I would choose results that work the best possible for as many people as possible.
How do you have sympathy for both those that are losing jobs and those that are dying?
You may hear nothing but ventilators when he speaks: I hear him talk of first responders, nurses, etc. and the horrors they go through.You may chose results, and downplay compassion and empathy (very conservative of you) but he hasn't produce any results that either, has he (unless you consider excess death results).
"You may hear nothing but ventilators when he speaks: I hear him talk of first responders, nurses, etc. and the horrors they go through."
Do you really? Or are you at a point that you will defend Trump no matter what because you are fed up with all the criticism he gets? (fairly or unfairly). I can understand that position. But I think you should always be critical because nobody is perfect. To blindly follow somebody is dangerous.I also heard him effectively call that nurse he was so-called honoring a liar when she spoke the truth to him about the problems she and her peers are currently having getting PPE..
Turn the question around - are you so disgusted and hate filled that you don't hear what is said but instead wait to pounce on anything that could possible be used to demonize the man?
But defending Trump? Is it a defense of Trump to point out that your statement was false - that there HAVE been words of empathy and caring if you don't simply ignore them as not fitting into your personal agenda against Trump? Is that defending Trump or pointing out errors in YOUR words?For me, No. Just being clear-eyed.
You are defending Trump when the statement you claim to be false is, in fact, not false.
Be careful of Wilderness' sharpshooting skills, Peter. So long as Trump has said just ONE empathetic thing, which he has, proves that he is an empathetic man. No matter that ONE thing was among 1,000 that weren't empathetic but should have been.I don't think my statement was false. I do think Trump lacks empathy and has Asperger syndrome to a certain degree.
And Trump is not the only president/prime minister who "forgets" to address the nation on an emotional level. The Prime minister of the UK and The Netherlands have the same problems.
I think a lot of politicians are used to talk about figures and economic policies, forgetting that behind all those figures there are real people.
And normally they don't have to show empathy as they do their business behind closed doors. But in these special times, something more is asked from our leaders and many are failing in this respect.And you may be correct although I would question your expertise to diagnose Asperger's.
Perhaps I'm just different, for I'm not interested in the slightest in emotional, comforting words that mean nothing except "I'm declaring that I care about you, whether I do or not". I want hard plans, numbers and facts - I will determine if they care based on the results of their plans.haha, yes, no, I'm no more an expert on Asperger's then you are. And it's my opinion, not a fact.
But I do think to address a nation on an emotional level is super important in times of crisis. I just have to think of the speeches of the Dutch Queen who was in Londen during WWII, who addressed weekly the nation with words of courage. The same I think can be said about the speeches of Roosevelt during the War I believe. Do not underestimate the power of emotions. You win a presidency on emotions, not on facts. And Trump touched the right emotion during his campaign, Clinton did not. But for so far I can see it, Trump lost this connection to address the nation. As you can not blame a virus. You can not say "lock it up". You need to evoke different emotions to fight the battle against COVID. You have to address compassion, togetherness (instead of republican vs democrats), you have to help each other instead of America first.
That's what I think.Not saying you're wrong at all - it is most likely a fact that the people both need and want an emotional speech dripping tears over their plight.
I'm just not one of them, far preferring to hear how govt. is going to end that plight. What's going to change, why, and how it will help me and help the nation as a whole.That's ok. I know what you mean. I would be in need for a bucket for my second-hand dinner too, if I saw the president with a child on his knees...(scenes you often see during campaigns.)
And would rather like to see somebody explaining the plan of action. And definitely I would like to know the why's and how's. Why do I have to stay at home? For how long? How is the crisis developing? What is the plan for beating the virus and what is the plan for after the crisis? (A question I hardly heard from any government I'm following, US, UK, Spain, Holland.)
But the crisis is about people, jobs are lost. incomes are vaporizing. And I hate it to hear for instance that the Prime minister of Holland is giving 4 billion to the KLM and only 300 million to the culture sector. Knowing that the culture sector is 3.5% GNP and KLM only 1% of the GNP. - But this is maybe a different topic. But an important question to ask is: How are we rebuilding the country. Every country will do this differently I guess. But for sure it has to be different and will be different than before the virus crisis.Peter, it may be off topic (or maybe not - it is vaguely connected to the KLM vs culture thought), but what frightens me more than the virus and the fatalities it brings is that no one will speak, or is allowed to speak, on the results of the truly massive giveaways that some governments are doing, including the US and, I think the UK.
Any economist that dares to mention it is promptly shut down as "uncaring" and their voices silenced. Anyone that agrees with Trump that we MUST re-open, and soon, gets the same treatment.
But IMO, it is an issue that we are going to face whether we want to or not. We made, IMO, a bad error when we began paying people more than they earned by working because it simply means they will sit at home as long as possible before being forced back to work, increasing the giveaways of money we don't have, yet it was and is applauded. Things such as that are simply set aside and never discussed and that bothers me. A lot.The crisis is often misused. During the crisis of 2008 more bonuses were given away than ever. More millionaires got their state sponsorship than ever.
I would say bail out the workers, not the banks.
I did not know the US had such a great dole system. Or are the wages just so low that the dole is higher than a 0-hour contract or a waiter who is living of tips instead of the payment of the restaurant owner?
My opinion is a bit different Wilderness. I think that it's in the best interest of the economy to have good unemployment benefits. As if people don't have money, they can't buy things. If people can't buy stuff the economy goes down. If people have more money to spend, people can develop themselves better and get a better life.
Also, it is a myth that people won't do anything if you give them more money then an ordinary job. That's simply not the case. People without a job get depressed, don't know what to do, feel guilty, are unhappy with themselves. People rather want to work for $100 then do nothing for $150. Working means self-esteem, it means doing something for the community, it means feeling useful. People, in general, don't want to be a coach potato even if they get paid.
I'm a huge advocate of a universal income. So you don't have to worry about the basic things in life. And you can develop yourself to the fullest.
And the thing about the free market. It does not exist. If you really want the government to stop giving money to companies your hamburger would be $20, your bread would be $5. The whole agricultural sector is hugely subsidized. A company like Uber has never made a profit in its life. And is making yearly billions of debts. This is capitalism gone wrong, badly wrong. Don't get me wrong, I do not support communism as a system for a country, it does not work. But the capitalism that we have today does not work either.
So back to the theme of COVID. After this crisis, I think we should do things differently.Yes, we have very differing philosophies in giving money away - the difference between modern socialism and capitalism.
For instance, I have been able to understand the idea that taking money from one person (who then has less to spend) and giving it to another (who then has more to spend, in exactly equal amounts) results in more spending for the economy. Makes zero sense to me.
We also very much disagree with people not wanting to work; your comment that a universal income, without working for it, gives a chance to "develop themselves"; that means doing whatever they want, from being a couch potato to simply vacationing all the time. I know I'm quite happy in retirement, not working on anything I don't want to. People work to support themselves, not because they want to; few have jobs they actually enjoy and wake up in the morning excited to go to work.
Both capitalism and socialism must be mixed with the other in order to have any kind of workable society, but it is my opinion that the US, and certainly the UK, have both crossed over into more giveaways and free lunch than is good for them. It reduces incentive, it provides a nanny state where people are not responsible for themselves and in the long run will fail. TANSTAAFL - There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch, and all that "free" money ultimately comes from someone that works for it but doesn't benefit from their work.Wilderness: What good does it do if Trump is opening up business and corporations that increase supply without demand? In order for there to be demand, people have to be healthy. If he is sending people back to work without knowing whether they are healthy or not does not seem right to me.
We already have too much supply in some areas where they are plowing under crops, dumping milk, and killing livestock that is not going to market. Until they fix that disconnect, it is not going to work to increase further supply.
THe problem with your statement, Wilderness, is that based on hundreds of other posts you have written that I have read, you don't want gov't " to end that plight.". According to you, that is not the gov'ts job.
Wilderness: I agree with everything that Peter Streep wrote. You totally disregarded what he said. Trump has no respect for science and he never will. He is a used car salesman that uses truthful hyperbole to sell you a car. His talk is fraught with it. He speaks in half truths and half lies. If you support him, you believe the half truth side. If you don't support him, you believe the half lie.
A classic example is the PPE stock pile. He said he inherited a broken system and the cupboard was bare. The cupboard wasn't bare. There were just not enough mask in the inventory because Obama used some of them for the Ebola virus. But if you believe the cupboard was bare, then you believe that Obama left him a broken system. But when I did the research, I found he was lying about the system being broken. You see how that works?
The virus is science. It is not politics. It doesn't care when Trump schedules it to be over or how positive he is about it being over, or when business are open or not.
Trump does not show empathy in his speeches. He is not capable of putting himself in the place of others emotionally. His needs and his motivation are to get re-elected and he will use every tool in his slimy tool box.
It's too bad that this virus raised it's ugly head in an election year and that Trump can't be impeached a second time. He has made himself untouchable and he knows how to use it against his enemies. He is just like a drug lord or the head of the mafia. If he doesn't like you, he will get rid of you and no body can touch him. He has made a mockery of the whole balance of power system in the constitution...Long live King Trump.By the way, isn't 1) "truthful hyperbole" an oxymoron? and 2) isn't "truthful hyperbole" just another way of lying?
And what masks were left in the stockpile were useless, having passed their life span years and years ago. Is there a reason you leave this out when trashing the president and praising Obama?
I'm very sorry, but while the virus is science, responding to it is far more than that, and politics is playing a very large part in it. To deny that obvious fact is ridiculous as people all over the nation are protesting both sides of the lockdown.
If Trump has made it impossible for Democrats to create another faux impeachment process to advance their political agenda and fix the election, more power to him.Wilderness: You didn't read this did you?
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 … kpile-wro/
You just said I side-stepped your question. Here are the sources for this claim. Where are your sources for stating what was left in the stockpile was useless?
Rev.com, Transcript of White House briefing, April 6, 2020
White House Briefing, April 3, 2020
White House Briefing, March 26, 2020
Greg Burel, Evolving the Scope of the Strategic National Stockpile, November 2019
U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Public Health Emergency Medical Countermeasures Enterprise (PHEMCE) Strategy and Implementation Plan, 2017-18
Factcheck.org, Trump Falsely Claims He Inherited ‘Empty’ Stockpile, April 3, 2020
USA Today, Fact check: Did the Obama administration deplete the federal stockpile of N95 masks? April 3, 2020
ProPublica, How Tea Party Budget Battles Left the National Emergency Medical Stockpile Unprepared for Coronavirus, April 3, 2020
AP, US ‘wasted’ months before preparing for coronavirus pandemic, April 6, 2020
ASTHO, Assessing policy barriers to effective public health response in the H1N! Influenza pandemic, June 2010
U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Budget document, Feb. 11, 2011
VICE News, The U.S. Has a Classified Stockpile of Ventilators and Masks, But It Won’t Save Us From Coronavirus, March 17, 2020
CBS News, Largest U.S. stockpile of medical supplies is "very stressed," former director says, March 30, 2020
National Academies, The Nation's Medical Countermeasure Stockpile: Opportunities to Improve the Efficiency, Effectiveness, and Sustainability of the CDC Strategic National Stockpile: Workshop Summary, Oct. 24, 2016
Washington Post, Inside the secret U.S. stockpile meant to save us all in a bioterror attack, April 24, 2018
Washington Post, Face masks in national stockpile have not been substantially replenished since 2009, March 10, 2020
New York Times, The U.S. Tried to Build a New Fleet of Ventilators. The Mission Failed. March 29, 2020
Emergent BioSolutions, Press release, July 30, 2019
Bloomberg, Hospital Workers Make Masks From Office Supplies Amid U.S. Shortage, March 17, 2020
Los Angeles Times, A disaster foretold: Shortages of ventilators and other medical supplies have long been warned about, March 20, 2020
PolitiFact, Barack Obama says Congress owns sequestration cuts, Oct. 24, 2012
PolitiFact, Federal pandemic money fell for years. Trump’s budgets didn’t help, March 30, 2020
PolitiFact, Fact-checking Jared Kushner’s comments on the national stockpile, April 3, 2020
Email interview, Ellen Carlin, a professor at the Georgetown University’s Center for Global Health Science and Security, April 7, 2020
Email interview, Ned Price, Obama administration National Security Council spokesman, April 7, 2020
Email interview, Dara Alpert Lieberman, director of government relations for the nonprofit Trust for America’s Health, April 7, 2020
U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Fiscal Year 2018 Justification of Estimates for Appropriation Committees, accessed April 8, 2020
U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Assistant Secretary for Preparedness and Response Budget and Funding, accessed April 8, 2020
Email interview, Stephanie M. Bialek, Stockpile Communication Services Section chief at the Division of Strategic National Stockpile in the HHS Office of the Assistant Secretary for Preparedness and Response, April 7, 2020
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 … kpile-wro/This talk about and focus on what Obama left Trump. It is mute and is meaningless
What is not meaningless is that Trump was warned by the Trump administration about the possibility of a pandemic.
What is not meaningless is that Trump disbanded the NSC office set up by Obama to plan for and manage pandemics. Imagine how many lives Trump cost with that decision!!
What is not meaningless is that Trump transition team went through a tabletop exercise about what might happen in a pandemic.with the Obama administration - Trump ignored it.
What is not meaningless is that Trump THREE YEARS and a sympathetic Congress (which Obama did not, btw) to replenish it. He didn't do that so [u]it is 100% on him[/u
So please admit it was Trump who blew it, not Obama, move on to something that means something.psst . . . you shouldn't leave such an easy opening. It's 'moot' not "mute."
GADamn it, one of these days I will learn proper grammar. I catch that error about 1/2 the time. They even sound different, when properly pronounced, and I still don't catch it.
This goes beyond Covid, but let me offer you people who think Trump is a Truth-Teller a challenge. Let me start by listing five Lies, as defined below, which Trump as provably make, then you come back with five lies that Biden, Obama, and Clinton have made (that would be a total of fifteen). Then I will come back with five more, then you do the same until one of us runs out. I know this will go on for a few iterations because there is no question all three of your assignees have lied.
But let's see who runs out first.
What are lies (only one of which can be excused)
Error—a lie by mistake. The person believes they are being truthful, but what they are saying is not true.
Purposeful -- a lie made on purpose. The person knows they are being untruthful.
Omission – leaving out relevant information. Easier and least risky. It doesn’t involve inventing any stories. It is passive deception and less guilt is involved
.
Restructuring—distorting the context. Saying something in sarcasm, changing the characters, or the altering the scene.
Denial—refusing to acknowledge a truth. The extent of denial can be quite large—they may be lying only to you just this one time or they may be lying to themselves.
Minimization—reducing the effects of a mistake, a fault, or a judgment call.
Exaggeration—representing as greater, better, more experienced, more successful.
Fabrication—deliberately inventing a false story.
I'll start with my favorite one:
1. “I have great respect for Angela and I have great respect for the country,” said Trump. “My father is German, was German, born in a very wonderful place in Germany so I have a very great feeling for Germany.” - 4/3/19: during a press conference with the Nato secretary general, Jens Stoltenberg. - he has claimed this three times. His father was born in New York
2. "Anybody that wants a test can get a test. That’s what the bottom line is".- 3/6/2020: At a CDC press conference. It wasn't true then, it isn't true today, and it won't be true for many months to come.
3. "You know, if I'm so good to China, how come I was the only person, the only leader of a country, that closed our borders tightly against China?" - 4/14/2020: at a Covid TF press conference. His policy had many, many exceptions to them and our borders were rather porous.
4. “It’s going to disappear. One day it’s like a miracle—it will disappear.”, speaking of Covid. 2/27/20: At the WH. The context was that it would disappear soon, like around Easter and not "one day" three years in the future. It also will not be from a miracle , but from hard work and suffering.
5. "If the economic shutdown continues, deaths by suicide “definitely would be in far greater numbers than the numbers that we’re talking about” for COVID-19 deaths." - He has said this many times. The possibility of this happening is zero. Annual suicides in America are around 47,000. Today, Covid deaths are new 80,000. You do the math.
There are my five. How about yours. In fact, to make it easier on you, just give me five between Biden, Obama, and Clinton. with dates, if possible. You can start with Obama's "You can keep your doctor promotion of ACA" (which was actually the plan at the time he said it)I see on one took up the challenge. That means Trump Supporters agree noone (or group of people) lie more than Trump does.
5/11/20: On the way home I listened to Trump tell me (at least three times) that "if I want a (coronavirus) test, I could get one", or words to that effect. So when I got home, I called up my local hospital and asked for a Covid test. After they said no, I told them that Trump just said I could get one. I wish I could report that they laughed, but they didn't, they just said it will a very long time before there are enough tests available to give one to anybody who wants one.
Now do note, that the surgeon general (I think that is who it was) tried to correct Trump by saying the word should be "needs", not "wants". But Trump shook him off and said "wants" at least two more times.
Bottom line, Trump lied - AGAIN about something very important to Americans.
He also made racist comments to a Chinese-American female reporter and was very rude to another female reporter before bolting from the stage. Both, in character for Trump.Hmm. I don't think I've ever seen Trump "bolt" anywhere. Frankly I don't think he's capable of "bolting" - every move is at a walk, and a fairly slow one. Perhaps an exaggeration - does that make it a lie?
Figure of speech meaning he left abruptly you sharpshooter you. So no, not a lie.
When you repeatedly use the word "want" instead "need", that is a bold-faced lie,
Trump and Pence are SO DUMB, they don't realize they are trying their hardest to put a Democrat in the WH before Biden (ByeDon) gets there.
If both get Covid, then Nancy Pelosi becomes President.5/11/2020:
"1. "We're here today to provide an update on the unprecedented testing capacity developed by the United States, the most advanced and robust testing system anywhere in the world, by far." - I don't know about the "most advanced" but the "most robust" is simply a lie by exaggeration. Just because the US belatedly did more tests than any other nation is moot (not mute this time). That number is not relevant until you divide it by population. Only recently did America pass South Korea on that score. Because they did it MUCH sooner, their rate of death due to Covid is MUCH lower than ours. Today, the US is 40th in the world in testing per capita - hardly what Trump makes it out to be.
"The Lost Month: How a Failure to Test Blinded the U.S. to Covid-19" -- The New York Times, March 28, 2020. And away we go!
Trump says this "2. "We have really had a very good relationship with the states and the governors and other representatives within the states, a relationship." But then says this:
""She's not stepping up. All she does is sit there and blame the federal government. She doesn't get it done. And we send her a lot." -- Donald Trump on Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer"
Then this:
"Governor Cuomo should spend more time 'doing' and less time 'complaining'. Get out there and get the job done." -- Donald Trump on New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo"
Then this:
"@JBPritzker, Governor of Illinois, and a very small group of certain other Governors, together with Fake News @CNN & Concast (MSDNC), shouldn't be blaming the Federal Government for their own shortcomings." -- Donald Trump on Illinois Gov. J.B. Pritzker"
And finally this:
"If they don't treat you right, I don't call." -- Donald Trump on governors"
Now this isn't a lie, per se, just really, really dumb - 3. "It should have never been allowed to happen; it should have been stopped at the source."
This is a lie by many types of definition - 4. "In every generation, through every challenge and hardship and danger, America has risen to the task. We have met the moment and we have prevailed." - Trump "said" he was talking about testing. By every objective standard we have not prevailed over testing. Currently we are about 30% of what is needed. The minimum experts say we need are 1 million tests per day. Currently we are around 300,000 per day nationwide - 3 months into the pandemic!So it is a lie that our testing is "robust". We are testing more, per capita, than S Korea, but because in the past we could not do that it means Trump lied when speaking of capabilities today - he exaggerated when he used the word "robust" in reference to today's capacity because it wasn't always that way.
Just who is exaggerating here? Who is lying about the "robustness" of US testing today? Trump, who you agree told the truth about our performance, or the one that says because it used to be different it is not robust today regardless of performance?And there you go distorting things again, Wilderness. First, you limit you critique to South Korea after I already pointed out there are 40 other countries doing better than Trump on a per capita basis - today!
We are NOT robust today, by any since of the word, we aren't even "just getting by" yet. Robust would be a million tests a day. We aren't even doing 300,000. Give me a break."Just because the US belatedly did more tests than any other nation is moot (not mute this time). That number is not relevant until you divide it by population. Only recently did America pass South Korea on that score."
Guess one of us can't read. Pretty sure it isn't me - I don't see anything here (except the comparison to the Gold Standard of S. Korea) comparing numbers on a per capita basis.Wilderness: Of course you are not going to believe it, because it's from CNN.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/12/health/u … index.htmlShould I believe CNN (known to grossly spin and twist their "reporting") or should I believe Esoteric (also known to grossly spin and twist his "facts) who makes a statement and then declares Trump lied because the statement wasn't true weeks ago even though it is today? And then tries to change his statement to what it was not? Tough choice.
I didn't address the truth of Trump's statement: I addressed the lie from Esoteric that he made in spinning what was said into what it was not.Wilderness: CNN is only known to grossly spin and twist their reporting when stated by Fox and Trump. In reality, Fox and Trump are the fake news and grossly spin and twist their reporting.
Which is where Wilderness learns how to do it so well.
For sure. Of course that is your opinion...up against millions of people that feel CNN is naught but another talk show any more. Should I believe you or should I take the opinion of millions plus my own eyes?
No need to guess on this one.Actually, the majority of people don't trust Fox where they do trust CNN to tell them the truth.
Think about it, you have a few million right-wing die-hards who watch and salivate over Fox. The many millions of other people who want real news split their time before much more believable outlets such as ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, NPR, BBC, MSNBC, and a bunch of other fair outlets.
In other words, while Fox may have a lot of viewers, combined CNN and MSNBC have more with Fox being the far-right view, CNN is moderate to left, and MSNBC far-left.The majority of the people trust CNN to tell the truth? And consider NBC, MSNBC and ABC to be fair? Not too bright as a nation, are we? Particularly MSNBC as a far-left source that is "fair"? You have got to be kidding - the only people that could possibly consider them as "fair" are the far left themselves!
In one of the essays in The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump it discusses the likelihood that rabid Trump supporters have the same characteristics of their chosen hero. Specifically mentioned and analyzed is the high degree of narcissism displayed by his supporters.
That is why your claim that we are "Not too bright as a nation, are we? " does not surprise me coming from you.
"You have got to be kidding - the only people that could possibly consider them as "fair" are the far left themselves!" - Assuming you are talking about MSNBC, you are probably correct.
But then "You have got to be kidding - the only people that could possibly consider them as "fair" are the far Right themselves!" - this is, of course, referring to Fox viewers.
The simple fact is, survey after survey after survey find people trust Fox less, much less in some cases, than mainstream media outlets.
https://www.businessinsider.com/most-an … mes-2019-4
https://www.thewrap.com/msnbc-and-fox-n … udy-finds/ (This one rates Fox high, but below MSNBC. The rest trail behind)
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 … s-source-/ (This one is interesting because when people were asked which network is the MOST trustworthy, it came out 23.5% for Fox, 10.4% CNN, 6.8% MSNBC. BUT, when asked who is the LEAST trustworthy, Fox also won with 39.4%!, while CNN came in at 21.1% and MSNBC at 5.9%. Bottom line, Fox has a net Negative)"In one of the essays in The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump it discusses the likelihood that rabid Trump supporters have the same characteristics of their chosen hero. Specifically mentioned and analyzed is the high degree of narcissism displayed by his supporters."
No bias in the article, right? With terminology like "rabid Trump supporters" and "narcissism displayed by his supporters" there is no perceptible bias at all.
Does you last paragraph tell you anything about your polls? Maybe that they don't mean much at all - that playing number games results in a conclusion without connection to reality?"Rabid Trump supporters" is my term, not theirs. But the other is their considered, expert opinion after much study of the matter. So, correct, no bias.
Not on my part sense my description is accurate. The proof is in words y'all write.
No, your last paragraph tells me you don't know squat about polls and polling.
Now let me go look and see what lies Trump told today or yesterday..Wilderness: If Trump hasn't heard a conspiracy theory by noon, he will start his own, just to keep the focus off of his screw ups. Now we have Obama gate...give me a break.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 … -unmaskingSo these (unbiased) reporters have done "much study" on Trump supporters and found that over half of them are narcissists. You do understand that that is at least a quarter of the nation (if you actually believe such a stupid statement); nearly 100,000,000 people. At worst it hovers around 20% or the 325M population of the nation. And you still consider that to be abnormal to the point of bringing it to the attention of the world? Of course, they specified, according to you, simply "Trump supporters", not just half of them; to my simple mind that should mean at least 3/4's of Trump supporters, very effectively making that "narcissism" quite normal. No more reason for rabid Trump haters (my term) to comment on it than if it were blue eyes or brown hair. It's about like saying that Trump supporters have an IQ of 100.
Do you recall the polls last election? Did you believe them? Perhaps it is YOU that doesn't know squat about polls and polling. Hint: you can produce a poll that will tell you anything you want to hear.
Try not to lie yourself this time around when you report on "Trump's lies". It's becoming all too common.Why do people have to spend so much time correcting your mistakes, Wilderness??
You just wrote "So these (unbiased) reporters have done "much study" on Trump supporters and found that over half of them are narcissists." - which is NOT what I sourced - you just made that up - AGAIN
What "reporters"?? Where did I talk about "reporters"? How do you come up with such nonsense?
In the real world I actually referred to the book The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump by Dr. Bandi Lee and at least 27 other mental health experts. You do understand, I hope, that these people are not "reporters". I sourced one of the "essays" written by one of those experts
Do I recall the polls from the last election, I sure do. In 2018, they predicted the Democrats would trounce the Republicans in the House, and that is exactly what happened.
If you are referring to 2016, the polls near election day also called it right. An average of the major national polls had it as a statistical tie a week before the election after the effects of Comey, the Russians, and Clinton's terrible campaign decisions did their work. While yes, most of the polls had Clinton ahead by a few points, most were in something called the Margin of Error; you may not be aware of what that is. But if a result is within the MOE, then the difference is statistically zero.
Further, in the three states that counted, PA, WI, and MI, two of three of those were also statistical ties. Only one had Clinton ahead outside the MOE.
So yes, the polls were correct!Reporters: whoever wrote the article you linked to and reported their findings. Do you (again) need a copy/paste of your statement to see what you said? Because it was "Specifically mentioned and analyzed is the high degree of narcissism displayed by his supporters.". With no percentage given it is reasonable to think they meant over half. If you believed they meant 5% of Trump supporters you should have said so as a very relevant bit of information. (Or did you leave that part out as part of the campaign to convince readers of something isn't true?)
LOL The last presidential election, which I'm absolutely positive you understood.
Sure the polls were correct...as the country was told right up to election day that Trump was a sure loser. YOU may not have heard that, but everyone else did. There was just one man that predicted correctly, from his own polls, and that man was on Trump's team - even so he was not believed until the very end.It is interesting to note, everyone, that Wilderness refuses to believe that a mental health expert wrote the article I am referring to. I wonder why that is?
And yes, that was these experts conclusion, extreme narcissism is rampant among rabid Trump supporters.
There you go moving the goal posts again WIlderness, a very Trumpian thing to do. I don't care what pundits were "telling" America. You were talking about polls and after getting defeated there, you switched to something called "heard".
An average of the polls clearly showed the race tightening up after Comey foolishly reopened with such fanfare the short-lived investigation into Clinton's emails. By the time he sheepishly closed it again, the damage (along with the Russians which we didn't really know about then) did its damage.
By the time of the election, the average of the polls (which I closely followed but you didn't - you just repeat Right-wing talking points) had the race a statistical tie.I don't believe them because I do not believe, for one second, that a group of so-called "experts" did a study on enough "rabid Trump supporters" to justify a conclusion that "extreme narcissism is rampant among rabid Trump supporters". If they did, please point to peer reviews of that same study, along with the details of the study.
You may fall for such crap because it gives the conclusion you wish to hear, I don't and neither does any thinking person.
Well, I didn't check any of the polls in 2016 (and don't think you did either) for proper methodology and size; all I had to go on was the reports of polls from media. From which I continued to "hear" that Clinton was going to be President. Not that it was too close to call, not that Trump had a chance of winning; that Hillary Clinton was the next President.Of course you don't believe them because they disagree with your preconceived notions. You won't check the book out because you are afraid of what you would find from people who really know what they are talking about.
Your's is a favorite tactic of the Right-wing - deny science. You see that here with James denying climate science. It goes hand-in-hand with fundamentalist Christianity.
Actually I do check poll methodology, that is what a good analyst will do and I am a good analyst with over 20 years of experience.
You are a good example of why you shouldn't listen to pundits but use actual data like I do.
I bet you are one one of those Right-wing Trump supporters that think Dr. Fauci is a fraud.No, I'm not going to buy a book to read right wing lies and exaggerations.
And your's is a favorite tactic; take any ridiculous claim, declare it to be "science" and thus true. I asked for peer review of their study and conclusions (that's part of "science" you know) - is there a reason that you don't provide any? Perhaps because there is none of this "science"?
Sure you did. You checked the methodology of all the polls in the last week of Trump's election. Right. (Not that it would matter if your check was similar to the "science" showing Trump's supporters are, on the average or as a group, badly narcissistic.)And there you go striking out blindly against professional experts. Here is who you are making fun of:
Dr. Bandy Lee - "r. Bandy Lee is a forensic psychiatrist and an internationally recognized expert on violence. Trained in medicine and psychiatry at Yale and Harvard Universities, and in medical anthropology as a fellow of the National Institute of Mental Health, she is currently on the faculty of Yale School of Medicine’s Law and Psychiatry Division. She served as Director of Research for the Center for the Study of Violence (Harvard, U. Penn., N.Y.U., and Yale), co-founded Yale’s Violence and Health Study Group (MacMillan Center for International Studies), and leads a project group for the World Health Organization’s Violence Prevention Alliance. She has consulted with the governments of Ireland and France, as well as Alabama, California, Connecticut, Massachusetts, and New York on violence prevention programming in prisons and in the community. "
Philip Zimbardo, Ph.D., is a professor emeritus of psychology at Stanford University, a professor at Palo Alto University, a two-time past president of the Western Psychological Association, and a past president of the American Psychological Association.
Robert Jay Lifton is a lecturer in psychiatry at Columbia University and Distinguished Professor Emeritus at The City University of New York. His books include, most recently, Witness to an Extreme Century: A Memoir (Free Press, Simon & Schuster, 2011), Death in Life: Survivors of Hiroshima (University of North Carolina Press, 1991 [1968]) which won a National Book Award, Hiroshima in America: A Half-Century of Denial (Harper Perennial, 1996), and The Nazi Doctors: Medical Killing and the Psychology of Genocide (Basic Books, 1986).
Judith Lewis Herman (born 1942) is an American psychiatrist, researcher, teacher, and author who has focused on the understanding and treatment of incest and traumatic stress. - Herman is Professor of clinical psychiatry at Harvard University Medical School and Director of Training at the Victims of Violence Program in the Department of Psychiatry at the Cambridge Health Alliance in Cambridge, Massachusetts, and a founding member of the Women's Mental Health Collective. - She was the recipient of the 1996 Lifetime Achievement Award from the International Society for Traumatic Stress Studies and the 2000 Woman in Science Award from the American Medical Women's Association. In 2003 she was named a Distinguished Fellow of the American Psychiatric Association.
Thomas Singer, M.D. is a psychiatrist and Jungian psychoanalyst with particular interests in contemporary political and social movements. He has written and/or edited several books including the newly published Psyche and the City: A Soul's Guide to the Modern Metropolis (editor) which has been published by Spring Book Publications, The Cultural Complex (co-edited with Sam Kimbles), The Vision Thing, Who's the Patient Here? (with Stu Copans, M.D.), A Fan's Guide to Baseball Fever: The Official Medical Reference (with Stu Copans, M.D.), Placing Psyche: Exploring Cultural Complexes in Australia, and Listening to Latin America: Exploring Cultural Complexes in Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Mexico, Uruguay, and Venezuela.
This is just a very few of the 33 contributors to The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump which lays out an overpowering presentation, with many, many examples from Trump's videos, writings, and speeches, of how mentally ill Donald Trump is.Your point? That 33 people makes it OK to publish statements without proper research to back it up? Because I am 100% positive that no research they did could ever result in declaring that 40% of the American population are narcissistic (the approximate percentage of people that "support Trump").
Do you agree, or do you think that a minimum of half the American population (Trump supporters plus any narcissists on the liberal or "undecided" side) are narcissists? Did you even stop to consider what such a statement means, what it says about people in general? Or did you just grab onto another opportunity to bash Trump or anyone not on the Trash Trump bandwagon?And how do you know they didn't do proper research??? I read the book and it seemed well sourced to me. And again, like Trump, you try to minimize the facts. You say 33 "people" and the truth is they are 33 experts (which I realize has no meaning to you) who are tops in their fields.
No I do not agree that "a minimum of half the American population" . I am not sure why you posit such a ridiculous claim. What I will say, based on the experts, that a majority of rabid Trump supporters are like Trump in most ways, including extreme narcissism, misogyny, homophobia, bullying, islamophobia, xenophobia, etc. The one Trump trait that I don't attribute to these people is pathological lying.
Trump is known as a Double High. He would score high on both the Right-wing Authoritarian Follower Survey as well as the Social Dominance survey. It is the latter where pathological liars exist. The former are prone to believe those lies."No I do not agree that "a minimum of half the American population" . I am not sure why you posit such a ridiculous claim."
That is based on your claim that the book says that Trump supporters are narcissists. As approximately half the country are supporters then, adding in those narcissists that are NOT supporters gives, as a minimum, approximately half the country. It's simple arithmetic, albeit arithmetic based on a ridiculous, stupid and offensive claim.
But if you don't like that explanation, your next paragraph is that a "majority of rabid Trump supporters are like Trump in most ways, including extreme narcissism, misogyny, homophobia, bullying, islamophobia, xenophobia, etc." Unless you will now choose to define "rabid Trump supporters" as a tiny fraction of supporters, it still leads to well over a quarter of the nation, given that half the nation are supporters and a majority of those is a quarter of the nation at a minimum. Will you stand firm on this - that at minimum a quarter of the nation is properly described as "extreme narcissism, misogyny, homophobia, bullying, islamophobia, xenophobia, etc." or will you back off once more?
(Are sure you wish to continue digging this silly hole, or will you accept that your claim is ridiculous on the face of it? Along with the book you supposedly quoted in making it in the first place?)I see you are back to ignoring words in order change the meaning. Until you put the word "rabid" (they chose a kinder description), then all you are doing is perpetuation a lie.
"Rabid" are Trump supporters who would follow him even if he did murder someone on 5th Ave - they would find a way to excuse it
"Rabid" are the Trump supporters who think the 16,000+ lies (broad definition), which have been verified are themselves lies
"Rabid" are the Trump supporters who don't see him as xenophobic (as opposed to those that do, but just don't care.)
"Rabid" are the Trump supporters who don't see him as a bully (as opposed to those that do, but just don't care.)
"Rabid" are the Trump supporters who don't see him as a racist (as opposed to those that do, but just don't care.)
"Rabid" are the Trump supporters who don't see him as misogynic (as opposed to those that do, but just don't care.)
"Rabid" are the Trump supporters who don't see him as a sexual predator (as opposed to those that do, but just don't care.)
"Rabid" are the Trump supporters who don't see him as dangerously narcissistic (as opposed to those that do, but just don't care.)
"Rabid" are the Trump supporters who don't see him as a dangerously mentally ill (as opposed to those that do, but just don't care.)So basically "rabid" means anyone not on your bandwagon.
Which puts it squarely back onto what I said; half the nation is a narcissist. You can't support that silly notion and neither can the "experts" who you say made the same claim. Nor can you support, in the smallest amount, that the same half the nation is "extreme narcissism, misogyny, homophobia, bullying, islamophobia, xenophobia, etc." (I suspect those are YOUR words and not from the "experts" in your biased book).
I ask again - do you wish to continuing digging this hole to bury yourself in or do you wish to back off these ridiculous claims?Nope, "rabid" means that small subset of people in America that meet the definitions I provided. I am guessing you might be on some mind expanding drug to reach the conclusion you just did.
"Which puts it squarely back onto what I said; half the nation is a narcissist. " - NOPE, only you think that.""Rabid" are the Trump supporters who don't see him as a racist (as opposed to those that do, but just don't care.)"
""Rabid" are the Trump supporters who don't see him as a dangerously mentally ill (as opposed to those that do, but just don't care.)"
I would have to say that very few Trump supporters see him as either a racist (because he isn't) OR as "dangerously mentally ill" (again, because he isn't). That leaves the entire group of Trump supporters as "rabid Trump supporters", which means they are "extreme narcissism, misogyny, homophobia, bullying, islamophobia, xenophobia, etc." in your words. Which in turn means nearly half the country.
Are you positive you don't want to back off this claim rather than simply keep digging it deeper? It's to the point you don't seem able to even remember what you posted, let alone draw conclusions from it."I would have to say that very few Trump supporters see him as either a racist (because he isn't) OR as "dangerously mentally ill" (again, because he isn't)" - YET HE IS on both counts. You just can't see it because you don't want to.
One poll (with others coming in with similar results) shows 57% of all Adults think "Trump’s policies have been bad for Muslims"
56% of all adults think "Trump’s policies have been bad for Hispanics"
47% of all adults think "Trump’s policies have been bad for Blacks" (75% of blacks think this)
"Fifty-seven percent of all adults, including more than 8 in 10 blacks, three-quarters of Hispanics and nearly half of whites, said they think Trump is racist. Eighty-five percent of Democrats consider Trump racist, but just 21 percent of Republicans agree."
By doing some math, that means 65% of Independents think Trump is a racist (assuming equal numbers of Ds, Is,and Rs were in the sample - which is normal. Even it the numbers were tilted heavily to the Ds, then 57% of Independents still think Trump is a Racist.
The question you have to ask yourself, why do so many Independents see Trump as a racist? What is it these people see that you don't?
As to his mental stability, I will leave it to the experts and this string of articles on the subject, but will also offer all poll where a whopping 48% of Americans Question Trump's mental stability - an amazing number. 47% see him as mentally stable. Of those polled, an expected 75% of Democrats think Trump has mental problems while a surprising large 14% of Republicans think so. But what is critical is that 46% of Independents think he is not mentally competent. 55% of women think he has a problem! WOW! What do you think that women, who are more perceptive than men in these matters, see that you don't?
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/01/ … lth-354902
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/01/ … lth-354902
58,000 mental health professionals say Donald Trump is too unstable to be president. Here’s a deep dive into the diagnosis and what could happen because of it.
https://medium.com/@shanesnow/donald-tr … ab6db008c4
https://www.euronews.com/2020/03/02/tru … us-outbrea
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl … 46771.html
https://www.businessinsider.com/psychia … ng-2019-12 (Another 350 mental health professionals tell Congress Trump has major problems)I won't dispute the first two (Muslims and Hispanics) as closing our southern border and stopping traffic from terrorist supporting countries will be bad for Muslims and Hispanics in the general sense. That doesn't make Trump racist.
In addition I truly doubt that 80% or blacks think him racist as he has done more for blacks than any president in modern history. Now Democrats - I don't doubt that they do - they will swallow anything their beloved leaders tell them without bothering to consider the charge, just as you do.
"58,000 mental health professionals say Donald Trump is too unstable to be president."
Now that's a load of crap...unless you will now publish a list of 58,000 mental health professionals that have publicly said Trump is too unstable to be president?
Not interested in your diagnosis from quacks making their opinions public without even a single interview with the man. No "professional" would ever do that - if nothing else it violates their professional ethics standards.
All of which has nothing to do with you silly claim that half the country (or more) are subject to "extreme narcissism, misogyny, homophobia, bullying, islamophobia, xenophobia, etc."First, calling them "quack" without even looking into their stellar credentials says you are not to be taken seriously and are just another highly partisan, very high scoring Right-Wing Authoritarian Follower (which means you checked your brain at the door when it comes to Trump).
Second, you trample on the 1st Amendment rights of these experts who simply describe what they see, read, and hear using their extensive training and experience. They only need to meet the person to determine why[ he is the way he is. They do not need personal interviews to see that he lies, that he expresses racist views, that he checks all of the boxes for a dangerously narcissistic personality.
Finally, as experts in this field, they have a duty to warn an unsuspecting public. It is no different than a professional weatherman not warning the public about a Cat 5 Hurricane that is about to hit them.
I guess you are one of those who believe if you repeat a lie often enough, some people will believe it. Well, your oft repeated lie "All of which has nothing to do with you silly claim that half the country (or more) are subject to " is just that, a distortion of what I really said" which again destroys your own credibility and makes you know better than Trump.
Now, even a blind person, let alone experts in the field, can see that he fits the definition of several serious disorders: From the DSM-V
Antisocial Personality Disorder (3 or more needed)
* Failure to conform to social norms with regard to lawful behavior - CHECK
* Deceitfulness: repeated lying, using aliases (which he did in the past), conning others for personal profit or pleasure - CHECK
* Impulsivity and failure to plan ahead - CHECK
* Irritability and aggressiveness - CHECK
* Reckless disregard for the safety of self and others - PASS
* Consistent irresponsibility such as repeated failure to maintain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations - CHECK
* Lack of remorse, or rationalization or being indifferent to having mistreated, hurt, or stolen from others - CHECK
Paranoid Personality Disorder (needs 4 or more)
* Suspects, without sufficient evidence, that others are harming, deceiving, or exploiting him - CHECK
* Preoccupied by the truthfulness and loyalty of associates - CHECK
* Reluctant to confide in others - PASS
* Reads "hidden" demeaning or threatening meanings into remarks by others which are, in fact, benign - CHECK
* Persistently bears grudges - CHECK
* Perceives attacks on his character or reputation that are not apparent to others and is quick to counterattack - CHECK
* Has recurring suspicious, without justification, of spousal infidelity - PASS
Narcissistic Personality Disorder (needs 5 or more)
* Grandiose sense of self-importance - CHECK
* Preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brialiance, ideal love. - CHECK
* Believes that he is "special" and can be understood by and associates with other special or high-status people - CHECK
* Requires excessive admiration - CHECK
* Has sense of entitlement - CHECK
* Interpersonally exploitative - CHECK
* Lacks Empathy - CHECK
* Often envious of others or believes others are envious of him - CHECK
* Arrogant - CHECK
Now, how hard was that. Each one is observable and does not need deep consultation. It only needs someone who is capable of understanding the meanings of the symptoms and can be unbiased in their application or provide examples of behavior that qualify.We will have to agree to disagree here, for I do not see a health "professional" as one that makes a diagnosis without an examination. Viewing a faux political "persona" presented to the public is insufficient, IMO.
But I will say that it is very easy to do - you did that when you proclaimed all Trump supporters (150,000,000 people) to be classified as "extreme narcissism, misogyny, homophobia, bullying, islamophobia, xenophobia, etc.". No exam - you haven't even begun to scratch the surface of meeting, seeing or hearing these people - but are still willing to make an exceedingly foolish and offensive claim.Wilderness and Scott: You guys are both off into the weeds in an exercise in futility. Let's get back to what this forum is about. Here is the latest Trump's escapades.
5/19/2020 Trump says he has been taking hydroxychloroquine for two weeks. However, there is no proof that he is actually taking it. His doctor's memo only states he agreed for him to take it. It's just like Trump to fake it, because he knows it has detrimental side effects.
Trump is blaming the WHO for being partial to China about the virus. Now he is threatening to freeze funding to the WHO unless they clean up their act. Another strategy right out of his playbook for distracting and shifting his blame to others.Wait. This thread is about Trump lying - he says he is taking a drug but he must be lying because you have no proof of it. Is that how it works? If you can't prove truth (without trying) then it has to be a lie?
That's as bad as claiming half the nation is extremely narcissistic because they support Trump!Wilderness: Tell me where it says the doctor prescribed the drug to Trump.
This memorandum is what you provide as proof positive that there is no prescription AND that Trump is not taking the drug?
As with Esoteric, you're really stretching for anything to complain about - you know as well as I do that a memorandum to the press secretary that does not indicate a prescription is hardly proof there isn't one. This doesn't even indicate the president is, or is not, taking hydroxychloroquine! Just that, in general, benefits outweigh the risks of doing so.
You also know as well as I do that not every piece of paper coming from the doctor will indicate treatment Trump is undergoing - using an irrelevant statement as proof that a specific treatment is NOT being taken is not reasonable.Wilderness: That is the genius of Trump's diabolical strategies. You never know for sure one way or the other. He does the same thing with his conspiracy theories. When asked questions, his strategy is say that many people have told me, they tell me, I get phone calls and letters from all kinds of people. He does it all the time, because he covers his a** this way. It becomes open-ended so that he can use it over and over again. Just like Obama was born in Kenya.
I think it says far more about the "genius" of the Trump haters of the world that will take anything - anything at all - and turn it into a lie. He says he heard something - they will declare it a lie although they have zero idea if he did or not. Not an error, not a mistake, not a minor exaggeration (most common in the political arena) - an outright lie because that's what they want to declare to the world.
And those same people will then feign astonishment when called on their own lie, as if they can't imagine themselves doing what they are so concerned Trump does. They will wiggle like a worm on a hook, providing "proof" that has nothing to do with their claim, while maintaining it is true. Or that they didn't say that, while repeating that it is true
Read the last couple of pages on this thread about Trump supporters - approximately half the country - being extreme narcissists along with several other offensive labels.Wilderness: When Trump gets his fake amnesia, he suddenly doesn't know people who he is with in pictures or on you tube videos. Just like he did with the inspector general he just fired and demoting the head of Biological Advanced Research Department. He claims he didn't know him, but he says he looked and acted like a disgruntled employee.
Is Trump taking hydroxyclorhqinine? You don't know and I don't know and chances are we will never know. That's what he does. He leaves things open ended. You can re-frame all you want, but the facts don't lie.You are correct; I don't know and you don't know. Why then do you insinuate that he must be lying?
Wilderness: My point is when Trump makes indeterminate statements what he is doing is playing to both sides. If you are a supporter, you perceive it as not lying. If you are not a supporter, you perceive that he is lying.
The doctor could have said, I advised him to take the drug. Trump could have said, he prescribed the drug. But he wants it to be indeterminate by design. Just like his conspiracy theories. He can't even articulate what Obamagate is about, other than he was an incompetent president. Even the AG refuses to investigate it.You may perceive that he is lying, for that is the goal you search for.
Others perceive that the statement's truth is unknown.
Which is what I said - some people will search for anything at all that can be spun and twisted into a lie, in order that they can declare the President a liar.Wilderness: Then tell me why Trump can't even articulate what Obamagate is about?
Nope, still wrong WIlderness. We only report obvious lies, he makes plenty, so we don't have to "turn" anything? Nor do we have to "declare" anything a lie because they are lies, provable ones.
"Called out on what lies"? When have we ever lied? When have you EVER proven we have lied?
WIthout a doubt it is you doing the wiggling.Go back through this thread; I have called you over and over on your claims of lying and so far you haven't provided evidence of a single one.
23."I understand you very well, better than you understand yourself." - Yeah right, and "only I can fix it" - a sure sign of dangerous narcissism.
24. "Now that we're doing so well on tests and so quick and so fast, five minutes, et cetera, and so accurate, you're complaining that we're getting too many tests. So you can't win." - We are NOT doing well. Some of the ones that are available are quick and fast, most are not. If he is talking about the rapid tests all of the WH staff are lucky to get, you have a 25% chance of actually having Covid when it says you don't.
25. "As far as Americans getting a test, they should all be able to get a test right now. They should be able to get a test." I tried and I couldn't get one and was told I won't be able to get a test (unless I was sick) for the foreseeable future.
28. "The 20,000 [cases] -- the numbers are way down from what they were two weeks ago. I mean, the numbers are really coming down; they're very substantially -- and this weekend was one of the lowest we've had. This is, you know, the numbers are coming down very rapidly -- all throughout the country, by the way." - For the past eight days, the "numbers" have been 24,655; 25,631;29,531; 29,162; 25,524; 20,329; 18,196; 22,321 (btw, they come down almost every weekend and then go back up)
29. "But as far as the models are concerned, if you go by the model, we were going to lose 2.2 million people." - A Lie, no model has predicted that yet.
30. "We're at the lowest of all of the models. I mean, if you look at, I guess that 120,000 -- 100,000 to 120,000 people would be at the low side. And we're at -- there's nothing low." - "Now we're going toward 50,000 -- I'm hearing, or 60,000 people. One is too many. I always say it. One is too many, but we're going toward 50,000 or 60,000 people. That's at the lower -- as you know the lower (end of the projections) was supposed to be 100,000 people." -- Donald Trump, April 21
5/11/2020
5. "In the fourth quarter we're going to do very good and next year I think we're going to have one of the best years we've ever had because there's a tremendous pent-up demand." - What is noteworthy about this claim is the shift in Timeline. His initial over-the-top exaggeration was that the economy would immediately bounce back once the country began reopening. Many states are reopening the economy right now and the economy is not "bouncing back".
8. "We had the best economy in the history of the world, not just here but anywhere in the world." - A LIE
9. "We had the best economy anywhere in the world and we were going for numbers, whether it was unemployment numbers where we had our best numbers. Employment also numbers. Little different." - Can someone please decipher this?
15. "Very soon. I mean, really, very soon." - "This is Trump's response to a question on when the average person will be able to be tested for coronavirus "every day as they go back to work." It is a Lie. The current HHS estimate for September is 50 million tests a month. Trump is saying we will be doing 160 million tests a day well before September. Also remember, Trump, et al have been promising massive testing "soo" since February. Today, we are doing less than 300,000 tests a day - and at least a million are needed to reopen the economy safely5/14/2020
Today, Donald Trump, the so-called President of the United States, probably uttered the stupidest, most disingenuous set of words in his infamous life.
BUT FIRST, there is this (more stupidity)
"After touring the medical supply distributor Owens and Minor in Allentown, Pa., the president — he and White House chief of staff Mark Meadows were the only members of the tour group not wearing masks "
Now, what did he say?
"“And don’t forget, we have more cases than anybody in the world,” he added. “But why? Because we do more testing. When you test, you have a case. When you test, you find something is wrong with people. If we didn’t do any testing, we would have very few cases.” - WHAT????
Think about what he said. He said that if we hadn't done any testing, there would not be 1.4 million cases of Covid reported today. The corrolary is that if there had not been any testing, then very few people be dead from coronavirus, rather then the 84,000 and counting that there are today.
Further, and this is what Trump is really after, if there was no testing, then there would be no social distancing (because there is no cases, no pandemic) and the country would remain open and he could win the election.
Not sure how he would explain away why a million or more people would be dying of unknown causes. But that is NOT his problem, its the Democrats fault, after all.5/15/2020
Trump claims that he will have the material and infrastructure to deliver 100 - 200 million vaccines by Dec 31, 2020, He has failed to provide the material and infrastructure to deliver Covid testing so far AND for the months to come. Why would he think, unless he is delusional, that he would be able to do that for vaccines. I know he doesn't drink, but I wonder if he does dope.5/16/2020
Now granted, Donald Trump himself didn't say this, his son did, but it is close to some foolish thing he did say:
"And they think they're taking away Donald Trump's greatest tool, which is being able to go into an arena and fill it with 50,000 people every single time, right?
So they will and you watch. They'll milk it every single day between now and November 3, and guess what? After November 3, coronavirus, will magically all of a sudden go away and disappear and everybody will be able to reopen."
He is nuttier than his dad.Do YOU think we'll still be in lockdown mode come November? Or was the root of the statement quite true?
I suspect we will be there again (we aren't now anymore) because I fear there is going to be an explosion of cases and deaths.
Why do I say that? Because there is not near enough testing to find most of the positive cases (remember there are 20,000 new ones a day right now and it is not declining very much). That means there are ACTUALLY between that and 1,000,000 new cases a day (if you are to believe one report which found 50 times as many cases as was expected).
And if you cannot identify who is positive, then you can find out who they might have infected and test them nor can you isolate them.
And now that you have some states opening up in a more or less uncontrolled fashion, new hot spots are bound to pop up in bars, churches, crowded beaches and other places where lots of people gather and don't bother to stay away from each other or wear masks.
It is just the nature of the beast which is even worse because you have a president begging people to do things that will increase the chances of spreading the virus.Well, you may be right on this one - we may have another outbreak. Or, given that 1M per day of new cases, that would mean something like 200M that have had the disease by the end of the year (if the trend does not accelerate, which it probably will with 1M new cases daily). And that in turn means that we should be getting pretty close to that dream of having herd immunity we keep hearing about.
Either way, though, my personal opinion is that the people will not tolerate another shutdown...and they're right, too, for we cannot afford to do that again this year. But even if we could afford it, I don't see people accepting it for another go-around even though the recipients of those giant unemployment checks would make some of them quite happy to at least pay lip service to staying home. Even liberal style giveaways and fiscal ignorance won't keep people inside their doors again. Pure opinion, and based only on what I see on social media, the news and in the stores, but I just don't think it could be pushed through once more.I totally understand your point. But, if true, what does it say about a people who are willing to sacrifice so many others so that they don't have to sacrifice some comfort themselves. That would be sad.
Wrong question. The right one is what does it say about people that either too stupid to understand very basic economics (such as balancing their spending with their income or that printing too much money causes runaway inflation) or don't care who gets hurt as long as they aren't subject to the .000001% probability (or whatever tiny fraction of the population it turns out to be) of serious harm or death from the virus?
I have been saying for a long time that there is more to the question of shutdown than how many lives might be saved from the virus. You may not believe it personally but it is quite true - there must be a balance struck between saving lives from the virus and saving people from the ravages of a broken, non-functioning economy. There will come a time, in the not too distant future IMHO, that we are going to be forced to accept virus deaths in order to maintain a functioning country. Pray that before that time comes we have an effective treatment and an effective vaccine for it is coming.I would agree, but what is your personal break even point assuming they opened the economy smartly, which is not happening for the most part.
Will you accept 100,000 dead in 4 months? 300,000 dead in 5 months? 500,000 dead in 6 months? What number is right for you?Tough call. Very tough.
But it also cannot be done that way - at best the number of deaths is a guess, a projection and can only be based on guesses as to what scientific discoveries will be made. IMO, we are doing the right thing with Trump's basic plan, modified by individual governors. Some governors will open too fast, some will take too long - mine is about right, IMO. We are in phase 2 of 4, with most businesses outside of bars and large gatherings open with strong efforts made to continue distancing, etc.
Again, IMO, if we aren't going full bore, or at least with no major restrictions, within the next 2-3 months we're going to lose the game. So we have to be open for business by that time. We could probably survive losing our sports - football, baseball, hockey, etc. - but not much more. Losing the tourism industry, for example, is not acceptable.
And it doesn't really matter if projected deaths are half million or a million - we cannot continue the shutdown beyond that point. Does that make sense - that we go as far as we can without losing our economic base and open regardless of the projected death toll? Whether you agree or not, is it making sense? Put the economists on the problem, put the health care people on it, put businessmen on it...then one man (Trump) make the final call based on ALL facets and pass that information to states. I understand full well you won't accept Trump under any circumstances, but if you can come up with a better candidate than the President of the United States I'm open to suggestions.
5/19/2020
In his letter to the WHO Trump falsely claims " the organization ignored "credible reports of the virus spreading in Wuhan in early December 2019 or even earlier, including reports from the Lancet medical journal."
That, according to the Lancet is a big, fat, Trumpian Lie!! They reported " The Lancet, however, said Tuesday "this statement is factually incorrect" and that it "published no report in December, 2019, referring to a virus or outbreak in Wuhan or anywhere else in China."This doesn't have anything to do with Trump's lie (just his campaign to disenfranchise voters), but it bears reading to see how far the Right has taken up from the vision our forefathers had for this nation.
"Under his order, which the Texas attorney general said he would immediately appeal, voters under the age of 65 who would ordinarily not qualify for mail-in ballots would now be eligible.
Biery's ruling covers Texas voters "who seek to vote by mail to avoid transmission of the virus."
In a lengthy order, which he opened by quoting the preamble to the Declaration of Independence, Biery said he had concerns for the health and safety of voters and stated the right to vote "should not be elusively based on the whims of nature."
"Two hundred forty-years on, Americans now seek Life without fear of pandemic, Liberty to choose their leaders in an environment free of disease and the pursuit of Happiness without undue restrictions," Biery wrote.
"There are some among us who would, if they could, nullify those aspirational ideas to return to the not so halcyon and not so thrilling days of yesteryear of the Divine Right of Kings, trading our birthright as a sovereign people for a modern mess of governing pottage in the hands of a few and forfeiting the vision of America as a shining city upon a hill," he said."Sorry - I side with Trump on this one. While I understand that Democrats are making a huge push to suddenly turn the country into vote-by-mail it is the wrong way to go. Democrats know that, too - the primary reason to do so is to gain more votes from people not eligible to vote. Dead people for instance, and illegal aliens (that's another tale as they are working hard to give foreign citizens the right to vote in our election). This whole thing is just another way to gerrymander - to change the voting in such a way as to benefit one party over another.
The only verifiable instance of fraud that had ANY impact on an election in recent memory is in North Carolina where Republican operatives manipulated absentee ballots.
You are willing to risk people's lives, it appears, for something that has less of a chance of happening than lightning striking you.
So you think giving more people access to voting is gerrymandering? Interesting.Well, you seem to be claiming that fraud does not happen with mail in ballots.
While ignoring that there is no method of knowing who sent it in, that tens of thousands of dead people are on the voting rolls, that Democrats are slavering at the mouth to get illegal aliens to vote (pretty easy with mail in ballots), etc.
Don't be silly - mail in voting does not give more people access - the tiny percentage that actually have no access already use the method. It just provides more opportunity for voter fraud and more Democrat votes. The same reason gerrymandering is used, in other words - to gain votes for a particular party.I don't "seem" to be claiming it - I AM claiming.it. Other than the fraud committed by the North Carolina Republicans there is zero evidence of the type of fraud Trump is lying about ever even coming close to influencing an election in my lifetime.
Now you may be willing to go stand in line with potentially infected people who refuse to wear a mask, that is your choice, but don't presume to risk other people's lives by making them do so as well.
As to the assumption that mail-in voting increases turnout, I am on the side that says yes. After having just researched it, the answer turns out to more nuanced.
In studies of Oregon and absentee ballots, the answer is yes, but with caveats.
In a Cambridge study using an experiment I didn't quite understand, but didn't want to spend the money to see the details, the answer they got was for general elections the answer was, to my chagrin, No, in fact that with the two large California counties they used, it reduced turnout slightly.
For special elections, on the other hand, mail-in ballots DID improve voter turnout.
Anecdotal evidence from Rockville, MD, who switched to mail-in balloting and closed their polls saw a doubling in voter turnout.
NCSL found "Turnout—Some reports indicate that because of convenience, voter turnout increases. These reports assert that turnout increases by single digits for presidential elections and more in smaller elections. See this 2013 report on all-mail ballot elections in Washington and this 2018 report on all-mail ballot elections in Utah. Effects on turnout can be more pronounced for low propensity voters, those that are registered but do not vote as frequently."
And yet another study comes up with this "Vote-at-home systems increase turnout - Research shows that average turnout in the three VAH states beats virtually any combination of other states:"
Bottom line, it seems that, especially for special elections, do not lower turnout and, despite Cambridge's one data point, can reasonably be expected to increase turnout.
By the way, studies show mail-in balloting does not give either party an edge.
5/19/2020
"Trump was reminded by a reporter on Tuesday that the FDA has said hydroxychloroquine should not be used outside of a hospital setting or research studies. - Trump interjected: "No. That's not what I was told. No.""
This is one of those "I was told" or "I wasn't told" types of Lie. It is a lie because it is not even close to reasonable that he was so-called "told" something opposite of what the FDA has published.. What if Obama said "I was told Trump was a Martian spy", Trump supporters would have to admit Obama is telling the truth if they buy into the ludicrous response by Trump.
Now I will wait for a Trump supporter write well "he could have been told that" and I will respond that I was told Trump has three heads, but we just can't see the other two. It makes about as much since.
Trump lambasted a study that had found no benefit from hydroxychloroquine in a group of veterans with the coronavirus who were given the drug. He called it a "phony study" and said it was done by "obviously not friends of the administration" who wanted to "make political points."
The President made similar comments earlier on Tuesday, speaking of an unspecified "bad survey" that was "a Trump enemy statement." On Monday, he claimed the study at the VA was done by "people that aren't big Trump fans."
He also complained Tuesday that the drug had been given to people who were "old" and "ready to die."
There is no evident basis for Trump's claims that the study of veterans was designed to hurt him. While there are valid criticisms of the study -- which was small, retrospective, focused on seriously ill patients, not peer-reviewed and not randomized or controlled -- Trump has provided no proof for his claims of some sort of political plot. The authors of the study explicitly acknowledged that it has significant limitations. Larger, peer-reviewed studies have also concluded that hydroxychloroquine has not benefited coronavirus patients . - This is a clear indicator of the extreme paranoia that Trump suffers from.LOLOLOLOL
Trump lies because you don't think he was told what he said he was. Not because you know he was told no such thing, but because you don't like what he was told and therefore his statement that he was told that is a lie.
https://hubpages.com/education/forum/34 … ost4138916
Yes, Trump was told that hydroxychloroquine is a valuable treatment for COVID. Which makes the liar someone other than him, doesn't it?Then you believe Trump lives in a bubble with no contact with the outside world; that Dr. Fauci or Brix never told him the opposite; that no one ever put what the FDA posted in front of him; that he never personally read anywhere what taking the drug for Covid outside a clinical trial or hospital was a bad idea.
Remember what Trump's response was to - a reporter pointing out to him what his own administration said. The purpose of Trump's denial was to repudiate the Truth. It makes no difference whether somebody (I was "told" it was by a three-year old chimpanzee) at some point in time might have actually told him that. What makes a difference is that he was calling the reporter a liar in his repudiation.YOU'VE heard the drug should not be used and that it should. YOU made your own choice about which piece of advice is sound.
But Trump is not allowed to do that, right? Because his determination does not match yours. Explain, please, why your determination, made with far less information than his, is superior (and is somehow always superior!
)
And then explain how his true statement (what he heard) is a lie but your statement (that he lied when he said that) is not, even as you now say it was true. Please.Trump says it should be used (what have you got to lose, remember?) while ALL experts say it shouldn't.
I listened to the experts while Trump did not. Now of course Trump can attempt suicide if he wants, but he can't encourage his blind followers to do the same by example. If he is taking it, he [b]must[/b\ keep that information to himself.
There is no doubt in my mind people will now die because of him.
What is the lie? The lie is when he said, in response to the reporter, that NO, the FDA did not say that. Yes they did. (you do know you are deflecting, don't you?)
5/20/2020
"In his tweet Wednesday morning, Trump falsely claimed Michigan would send absentee ballots to 7.7 million voters. But he also threatened to "hold up funding to Michigan if they want to go down this Voter Fraud path!"
The voter fraud from mail-in ballots claim is a lie. There has been zero evidence of fraud which impacted an election from main-in balloting save in one case - that was when North Carolina Republican operatives manipulated absentee ballots to swing an election to the Republican candidate. But that wasn't "true" mail in since the Republican's collected up the ballots from voters and did something illegal with them. Trump has more of a chance of being struck by lightening than there being significant mail-in ballot fraud
ALSO - he abused his power by threatening Michigan.I have a quiz for everybody. Which is the lie?
“I’m not a politician.” (CNN, August 11, 2015) OR “I’m no different than a politician running for office.” (New York Times, July 28, 2015)
“I’m totally pro-choice.” (Fox News, October 31, 1999) OR “I’m pro-life.” (CPAC, February 10, 2011)
“Look, I’m very pro-choice. I hate the concept of abortion. I hate it. I hate everything it stands for. I cringe when I listen to people debating the subject, but you still—I just believe in choice. … I am strongly for choice, and yet I hate the concept of abortion. … I am pro-choice in every respect … but I just hate it.” (NBC News, October 24, 1999) OR “I am very, very proud to say that I’m pro-life.” (Cleveland, Ohio, August 6, 2015)
“I prefer to come to work each day and just see what develops.” (Trump: The Art of the Deal, 1987) OR “You can’t just sit around waiting for deals, opportunities, or a lucky break.” (Trump: Think Big, 2007)
“My motto is ‘Hire the best people, and don’t trust them.’” (Trump: Think Big, 2007) OR “Surround yourself with people you can trust.” (Trump: How to Get Rich, 2004)
“My motto is ‘Hire the best people, and don’t trust them.’” (Trump: Think Big, 2007) OR “Surround yourself with people you can trust.” (Trump: How to Get Rich, 2004)“They are the most dishonest people in the world. The media. They are the worst. They are very dishonest people. They are terrible.” (Indianapolis, April 20, 2016) OR “OK, no, I don’t hate anybody. I love the media. They’re wonderful.” (Indianapolis, April 20, 2016)
And then there is this "“If you equivocate, it’s an indication that you’re unsure of yourself and what you’re doing. It’s also what politicians do all the time, and I find it inappropriate, insulting and condescending. I try not to do it.” (Trump: How to Get Rich, 2004)Okay My Esoteric, this one got me. I am not quibbling with your "quiz," I am just noting that my first response was to think politics. (Hmm . . . did I just weigh in on that "I'm not a politician" question?)
GAGranted, most of these will have nothing to do with Covid yet, but how do they put it in court, "it lays a foundation"?
I also realize that for some of these much time has passed between changed views. And I don't hold people changing their opinion when new facts come in - but - there is a point when the frequency of it (within very short time spans) where it becomes a method of operation. The best example of that in the first set I offered was the pair about the media.
5/20/2020
"His claims against Joe Scarborough, the host of MSNBC's "Morning Joe," are among the most outrageous. He renewed them in earnest last week, asking in a tweet: "When will they open a Cold Case on the Psycho Joe Scarborough matter in Florida. Did he get away with murder?" - THIS is the President of the United States, mind you! But the TRUTH is "Authorities in Florida have answered -- adamantly -- no. They ruled the 2001 death of Lori Klausutis, who worked as an aide in Scarborough's congressional office when he represented Florida's 1st District, accidental. And they have not described the matter as a "cold case."
I posted this once already and focused on the "voter fraud" lie. This time I will point out another. ""Breaking," he wrote, "Michigan sends absentee ballots to 7.7 million people ahead of Primaries and the General Election. This was done illegally and without authorization by a rogue Secretary of State. I will ask to hold up funding to Michigan if they want to go down this Voter Fraud path!"
His claims were false; the state's secretary of state announced Tuesday that all registered voters would receive vote by mail ballot applications, not the ballots themselves. He made similar claims against Nevada in a subsequent tweet." - There is nothing illegal about mailing out ballot applications (his original post just "ballots"), many states do it include many Republican states.5/21/2020 Trump says the virus will go away without a vaccine.
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/05/trump … t-vaccine/Just finished updating my Covid tracking spreadsheets and it is becoming very clear the health professionals were right, the nation opened up to soon. Across the board, save for those states who took coronavirus seriously, the rate of new cases is increasing; in some states, rapidly.
Has the next wave begun?Could this noted increase be due to much higher testing rates? It seems so to me.
Perhaps a ratio, (percentage), comparison would add some perspective?
GAGA: Here is everything you wanted to know about the statistics on the virus, sliced and diced many ways.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/coronavirus?ocid=stThanks Mike. Although there was a lot of information in your link, I didn't locate any data on positives vs. total tests ratios. A quick look at a CDC site did find that nationwide as of 5/20 the rate was 13% of 12+ million tests.
My question wonders what that percent was on earlier dates, like 4/20? I suspect the percentage might be higher, making claims of increases due to reopening less than reliable
GAGA: This may help you, but you may have to do some interpolation of historical data by state.
https://covidtracking.com/about-data/vi … tion-guide
MikeThanks again Mike, that one did do the trick. Just using that link's numbers, it does appear that the positive percentages are declining, and, although with only one week to compare—positives continued their decline even after the partial reopening, (5/15).
I will save this link to check back in another 10 days to see if that trend changes after more reopening contact.
Here is the trend mentioned:
2/20
2 tests, 2 positives
100%
3/20
206,304 tests, 28.285 positives
14%
4/20
4,032,723 tests, 777,068 positives
19%
5/15 (general partial reopen date)
10,739,347 test, 1,434,235 positives
13.36%
5/20
12,637,495 tests, 1,542,054 positives
12.2%
https://covidtracking.com/about-data/vi … tion-guide
GAGA: Just messing around, but I created a chart for what you found. Maybe it can be updated monthly.
MikeThat is interesting data, but at the moment, it doesn't tell us anything definitive.
I took weekly snapshots and the averaged the resulting percentage to get 15.9% with a standard deviation of 2.7%. (I excluded the date before 3/21/20 as too small). This means that to be statistically different from the mean at a 95% (assuming the rations are normally distributed) confidence level, the ration must drop to below 8% or rise higher than 23.7%.
Now, having said all of that I did notice that from 3/21 to 4/11, each succeeding ratio was higher than the previous one. And from 4/18 to 5/23 there is a steady decline.
Through into the mix that until recently, only sick people were tested. Over the last week or so, a few localities are letting anyone who wants to be tested, included those with no symptoms.
Initially, only really sick people who met other criteria that would point to being Covid positive. Consequently, as more and more people presented themselves, then a higher percentage would show up positive.
As the criteria was relaxed, more and more sick people who weren't covid positive were being tested which must lower the percentage, which is what we are seeing now.
After that, it is a crap shoot. As more and more asymptomatic people present themselves I suspect the rate is going to increase again. The reason being is it seems reasonable to me that the only non-sick people who will get tested suspect they may have been exposed. Therefore, it would seem this population would have a higher mix of positives in it.
Only time will tell.Go for it buddy. My interest is to simply understand what will happen with increased contact.
GA
This is probably what you are looking for.
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/testing/individual-states
But, one must be careful with the data presented.
Total daily deaths have varied roughly between 25,000 and 35,000 with a potential uptick the last few days.
At the same time, after testing started increasing from its plateau at 150,000 per day to the current 400,000, it grew about 2.7 times. On the other hand, the positive rate decreased at about the same amount from 16.1% to 6% or 2.7 times decrease.
I must think more about that, but at first blush, I don't think that provides very useful information.
What I have to try to figure out is what would be the number of positives had the rate of testing remained constant at 150,000 per day. If more testing DOES catch more positive cases, then under the constant testing per day scenario the number of positive cases would be getting less and less. But I am not sure how to get there from the data i have right now.You keep right on 'thinking' about it Scott. You are welcome to it. ;-)
My interests only goes as deep as understanding the general trend as it will be affected by the reopening.
I strongly believe we must work to reopen our economy sooner rather than later and it is the risk trade-off that the tests vs. positives numbers will show that will influence my opinion.
GAGA: One thing to keep in mind is the incubation period of the virus. It can be up to two weeks or more before a person presents any symptoms of the virus or they could be asymptomatic and be a carrier without presenting any symptoms.
Therefore, a person can test negative one day and test again the next day and be positive. So my point is the data can be skewed by the incubation period of the virus. Even the antibody tests at this point are not reliable. You can be tested for antibodies and they show positive, but your antibodies may not be strong enough to do give you immunity from the virus.
It makes it very difficult to open the economy when you don't know if you are safe or those who you work with are carriers of the virus. That's why the scientist are saying there could be a rebound effect later on this year. The trade-off is going to be tough.I am aware that the incubation period can, and probably mistaking the test numbers less indicative than they appear. I noted in another response that June 15-20 will probably be the earliest we can judge the effects of reopening—which started 5/15.
GA
"Reopen" is an undefined term given there are many ways to do it, a few are smart, many are dumb and dangerous.
It boils down to "how many lives is an increase of .1% GDP worth?" I would bet liberals and most independents would rather open very slowly and smartly while conservatives not so much.
The argument that some people might die if you keep the economy closed is just a red herring because those numbers will be miniscule when compared to the number of deaths from just throwing the economy wide open as Trump is wants."It boils down to "how many lives is an increase of .1% GDP worth?"
I was so sure that was coming next that I nearly noted in my previous response that I was sure that would be your next question.
So, I have decided that 117,313.5 deaths are an acceptable price for me to be able to go shoot some pool and guzzle a few beers with my arms wrapped around the camo shoulders of my militia buddies.
As for your "red herring" thought, I strongly disagree.
GAYes you should have because that is the choice politicians have to make.
So, given the way many states reopened, your pain threshold will probably be broken. My best guess at the moment is Jun 6, 2020. After that point, you should be pushing to lock things down again.
GA, yes, that could certainly be part of the reason. The real indicator will be is if the number of admissions into hospitals go up. But right now, there isn't enough data determine if the amount of testing is related to the number of new cases.
I ran a couple of multiple regressions on some normalized data looking for a relationship. The first time I ran it, the sign on the "test" coefficient was wrong, meaning that has the number of tests went up, the lower the case count.
The second time I ran it with more data accumulated, it now trends in the proper direction at this point in time. Unfortunately, the percent of variation explained by my variables (tests and population density) was only fair-to-middling.
I think the reason why the relationship is not stronger is that they still so little surveillance testing going on. Almost all of the people being tested in most states are already sick. As surveillance testing increases then that is when you should see testing related increases.
I'll update the data again next week and see if things improve.
That said, there will be a point where more testing won't necessarily lead to more cases. But we have some time to go before that happens since testing is still so far behind what is needed.A recent explanation demonstrated that data like the numbers I looked at; tests vs. positives, can only be a broad generalized indicator because of issues with different ways states are reporting their numbers.
Some states include positive viral tests and positive antigen tests in their numbers which can skew the numbers when compared to states that only report viral tests as positives.
Considering how many folks only suffer mildly with Covid-19 before getting over it, (meaning no hospital visit), I am not sure I would place such importance on the hospital admissions numbers.
Of course, I am just guessing, but I think the best indicator will be the original tests vs positives ratio four weeks from 5/15. This will paint the picture of the effect of increased social contact during the reopening by allowing the 1 to 2-week incubation/display period to be represented in the testing numbers.
GA
5/24/2020
"TRUMP: "The United States cannot have all Mail In Ballots. It will be the greatest Rigged Election in history. People grab them from mailboxes, print thousands of forgeries and ‘force’ people to sign. Also, forge names. Some absentee OK, when necessary. Trying to use Covid for this Scam!" — tweet Sunday."
What a lie since he knows that is not true.
"THE FACTS: Voting fraud is rare.
It’s true that some election studies have shown a slightly higher incidence of mail-in voting fraud compared with in-person voting, but the overall risk is extremely low. The Brennan Center for Justice said in 2017 the risk of voting fraud is 0.00004% to 0.0009%." ALSO "Trump’s push for in-person voting runs counter to the current guidance of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention" Meaning Trump is purposely endangering people's health and lives just like the Trumplicans in Wisconsin did - making dozens of people sick.
"TRUMP, on the 2016 election: "I’m fighting the deep state. I’m fighting the swamp. ... They never thought I was going to win, and then I won. And then they tried to get me out. That was the ‘insurance policy.’ She’s going to win, but just in case she doesn’t win we have an insurance policy." — interview aired Sunday on “Full Measure with Sharyl Attkisson.”
THE FACTS: He's repeating a false claim that there was a conspiracy afoot to take him out if he won the 2016 presidential race, based on a text message between two FBI employees.
Trump has repeatedly depicted the two as referring to a plot — or insurance policy — to oust him from office if he beat Democrat Hillary Clinton. It’s apparent from the text that it wasn’t that."
"TRUMP: "I’ve received a lot of positive letters and it seems to have an impact. And maybe it does; maybe it doesn’t. But if it doesn’t, you’re not going to get sick or die. This is a pill that’s been used for a long time — for 30, 40 years on the malaria and on lupus too, and even on arthritis." — remarks on May 18.
TRUMP: "It doesn’t hurt people." — remarks Tuesday after a GOP policy lunch." - A Big Fat Lie
FACTS: It does hurt people when used off-label. If fact it kills people, as several studies have shown including a very big study. Since it does kill people using it as Trump wants people to use it and Trump is telling true believers to use it, he is in effect signing the death warrant for a few of them.
"TRUMP: "You know we got the Veterans Choice." — remarks Friday at veterans’ event.
TRUMP: "We’ve done the greatest job maybe of anything in the VA, because I got VA Choice ... approved." — remarks on May 18.
THE FACTS: False. He didn’t get Veterans Choice approved; President Barack Obama did in 2014. Trump expanded it, under a 2018 law known as the MISSION Act." Why does Trump lie so much?""THE FACTS: Voting fraud is rare.
It’s true that some election studies have shown a slightly higher incidence of mail-in voting fraud compared with in-person voting, but the overall risk is extremely low."
Indicating a lesser degree of something as fact would seem to fall into the category of calling something exaggeration and hyperbole more so than a provable lie. Can you prove those things won't happen in the future, (2024)?
"THE FACTS: He's repeating a false claim that there was a conspiracy afoot to take him out if he won the 2016 presidential race, based on a text message between two FBI employees.
Trump has repeatedly depicted the two as referring to a plot — or insurance policy — to oust him from office if he beat Democrat Hillary Clinton. It’s apparent from the text that it wasn’t that."
What was the insurance policy the text spoke of? What is your proof that it wasn't what was claimed? As we continue to learn more, are you sure you want to defend Strzok and Page?
It looks like you are getting a little 'loose' with your "facts."
GANope, but Trump is stating the fraud claims as fact now. And it isn't true. In any case, the Trumplicans will have a chance to prove it in court since that is the basis of challenging CA's mail-in ballot order.
Insurance policy? Whatever the two FBI agents texted about. From their texts, one can easily see Trump is being very paranoid.Yet you don't know what their "insurance policy" texts were talking about, but even not knowing, you still claim it a fact that it wasn't what Pres. Trump said, right?
GAAnd why do I personally need to know about that?? All I need to know is Trump was talking about it as if it were really true and examination of the texts proves him a liar.
That is all that matters, isn't it. He made a false claim, period.No, that is not all that matters. If you are going to call something a lie you need to be able to support that claim.
If you don't know what the "insurance" texts meant, then how can you legitimately determine someone else's interpretations of those texts are a lie?
"You don't 'think' Pres. Trump's interpretations of what those texts mean are true, but what you "think" is a far cry from the standard of declaring something a "fact."
When you can prove that what those texts did mean is contrary to what Pres. Trump is declaring them to mean—then you can claim factual support for your statements. Until then you are only offering your opinion—not facts.
Regardless of appearances, patterns, or trends, you cannot claim your opinion to be fact without actual factual support. Hence my claim that you are playing "loose" with your claims of "facts."
Can you prove me wrong? Can you provide facts that support your opinion
GAGA: There are many types of lies, but saying something untrue with the intent to deceive, is what Trump does. So by your definition when he says "many people" have told me so and there is never any proof of "many people." Is he lying with the intent to deceive? I would say he is.
Just like his conspiracy theories they are open-ended and never proven. When he says, voting by mail creates fraud and it is proven that is untrue. Is he lying with the intent to deceive?
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/trump … formation/"I would say he is."
And there is the difference peoplepower. Your statement is your opinion and is a valid statement.
However, ". . . voting by mail creates fraud and it is proven that is untrue. " is not a valid statement as My Esoteric's own quoted blurb notes it has not been disproven.
GAAnd you are being disingenuously picky and intellectually dishonest. Shall I start looking for your misplaced commas?
So I will leave you to your fantasy that Trump is not a pathological liar and keep posting his lies.". . . disingenuously picky and intellectually dishonest"
. . . and that is bullshit My Esoteric.
Are you saying I am being "disingenuously picky" because I am arguing the difference between opinion and fact? That doesn't seem picky to me, so what am I being disingenuously picky about?
And "intellectually dishonest"? About what? What does your "misplaced commas" reference mean?
I take your charges seriously bud. I think you owe me the courtesy of an explanation to support them.
As to your "fantasy that Trump is not a pathological liar" final word . . . When have you ever seen me address that? Is that the only conclusion you can imagine if someone doesn't agree with you?
I can understand your frustration that you have not been able to convince me that your opinion is fact—when you are so certain it is, but take a breath and step away for a moment. There is no need to let that frustration degenerate into personal attacks when your points should be so easy to prove if you are right.
GAGA: Trump is stating drug use, mail fraud, and the deep state as fact. But his facts are wrong. I call that lying with the intent to deceive or pure ignorance, or playing to his base...what do you call it?
https://apnews.com/fe3bff525afa93918f8f4f6d1843440c
MikeIf your statement is true, then I would call that wrong—claiming an opinion to be a fact. It is as wrong when the president does it as it is when anyone else does it.
Is it the same as a lie? Is the claim stated to be a fact, or is it stated as if it were a fact? I think I will stick with calling it wrong.
Just as a side note; even your linked article generally says Trump is wrong, rather than saying he is lying.
GA
No, because you are picking at immaterial things that have nothing to do with the larger picture that Trump is deceiving part of the public and trying to deceive the rest.
If you want to use the possibility that there is a one in a million, or whatever the number might be, that he could possibly be correct in some alternate universe to show that he might not be lying, be my guest.
It is not my opinion that Page was telling the truth while Trump is lying, it is the assessment of many people in the know that her story rings true. And since I have to pick to chose between the two, I will pick the one known for telling the truth (Page, in case you didn't know it) as opposed to one who lies the majority of the time. To me, it is a no-brainer.That doesn't cut it Scott. Where is my pickiness and dishonesty?
In your world of facts, you seem to be saying that "one-in-a-million" and "assessments you trust" are enough to constitute facts.
From my perspective, (whether you call it nitpicking or intellectually dishonest), you have only supported your opinions with the opinions of others. What is your acceptable formula; how many opinions does it take to turn an opinion into a fact?
Your comment; "If you want to use the possibility that there is a one in a million, or whatever the number might be, that he could possibly be correct in some alternate universe to show that he might not be lying, be my guest"' sure seems like support for an opinion, not a fact.
If a theory, (opinion?), can be discredited by even a one-in-a-million chance then that theory is discredited and not considered fact. Do your facts have a lower threshold of truth?
If a fact, (your opinion), can be disproven—even if it takes one million and one tries, doesn't that remove it from the "fact" category?
You still owe me an explanation for your charges of pickiness, (commas?), and dishonesty.
You are either right or you are wrong—or you misspoke. Which is it?
And for clarification, I was never addressing this point:
"No, because you are picking at immaterial things that have nothing to do with the larger picture that Trump is deceiving part of the public and trying to deceive the rest."
. . . I have always been addressing your comments. (note that I left out your "deceiving" adjective).
GAApparently there are no "facts" in your world, GA, based on your criteria.
Well, that is certainly all the support you need, right? There are no facts in my world.
Kellyann has alternate facts, and My Esoteric has his facts. All is good in the world.
I guess that ends the "disingenuously picky" and intellectually dishonest" part of this discussion. Apparently your "facts" are above dispute.
I would offer one bit of unsolicited advice, there is one fact that exists in my world. It is; an "I think", or "It appears," or It seems," might add a bit of credibility to your 'factual' declarations. As it stands, your declarations of fact are sorely lacking of support by anything more than just other opinions. And that just ain't enough for non-like-minded folks.
Do you accept the same validation for Trump supporter's views? That they can find supporting opinions makes their declarations fact, right?
GA
What if Trump wrongly said that 2 to the nth power is NOT greater than 2 to the nth minus one power with 'n' greater than 0. Would you ask me to prove that?
As to me proving it, I say again, I don't need to because as what I posted contained research by others who I trust (which is why I called it a lie). But since you are forcing me to waste my time proving the obvious -
"When former FBI lawyer Lisa Page and former FBI agent Peter Strzok discussed a so-called "insurance policy" involving then-candidate Donald Trump and the Russia investigation in 2016, they were discussing how quickly to proceed with the probe, Page told lawmakers last year.
Page told House lawmakers in a closed-door interview that the text message about an "insurance policy" if Trump won the 2016 election — which Republicans have cited to point to the anti-Trump bias the investigators exhibited — was a reference to the fact that the FBI's counterintelligence investigation into whether members of Trump's team were colluding with Russia would take on a greater significance if he was in the White House.
"If he is not elected, then, to the extent that the Russians were colluding with members of his team, we're still going to investigate that even without him being President, because any time the Russians do anything with a US person, we care, and it's very serious to us," Page said.
"But if he becomes President, that totally changes the game because now he is the President of the United States," she continued. "He's going to immediately start receiving classified briefings. He's going to be exposed to the most sensitive secrets imaginable. And if there is somebody on his team who wittingly or unwittingly is working with the Russians, that is super serious.""As to me proving it, I say again, I don't need to because as what I posted contained research by others who I trust..."
LOL Esoteric, you will trust anyone that jumps on the bandwagon of demonizing our president. Even if obviously false (Trump supporters are extreme narcissists) you will still trust them to tell the truth if it but degrades President Trump or anyone remotely associated with him.Nope, I trust reliable sources which means I ignore Right-wing media.
And again Wilderness - YOU DECEIVE. The correct quote is "(Trump RABID supporters are extreme narcissists) Therefore you lie by deception, just like Trump does."And again Wilderness - YOU DECEIVE. The correct quote is "(Trump RABID supporters are extreme narcissists) Therefore you lie by deception, just like Trump does."
Except that your long list of what makes a supporter be a "rabid" supporter virtually eliminates any possibility of a supporter that is not "rabid". I commented on that before.
When I looked around to follow-up your provided "insurance policy" explanation I found almost as many sources that did not accept Page's explanation as the ones that did. So who is to be believed?
Would it be a poor analogy to compare her statement to a criminal's witness stand declaration that "I didn't do it"?
Regardless of which side is taken, the accepted side is still an opinion—to believe Page or to not believe her. That is different from accepting or denying the fact that 2+2=4.
In this instance, it is your 'opinion' that Pres. Trump lied because you believe Page's explanation.
GA
5/25/2020
Criticized for golfing twice on a Memorial Day weekend during which the US coronavirus death toll approached 100,000, President Donald Trump responded Sunday and Monday by drawing attention, again, to former President Barack Obama's golfing.
Trump denounced the media, which he called "sick with hatred and dishonesty," for supposedly failing to mention that Saturday was his first time golfing in three months. ( FALSE since CNN, among other outlets, did note that it was his first golf outing since March 8.) Trump also accused the media of failing to talk about "all of the time Obama spent on the golf course, often flying to Hawaii in a big, fully loaded 747, to play. What did that do to the so-called Carbon Footprint?" (that is probably true because relative to other presidents, Obama didn't play that much golf. And Trump is being VERY disingenuous given his use of AF-1 FAR surpasses Obama's for golf outings, let alone campaign rallies.
"Barack was always playing golf," he said in one of his five golf-related tweets.
FACTS - President Obama averaged a round of golf every 8.77 days. Compare that to Trump's average of one round of golf (that we know about as he sometimes tries to hide the fact) [b]every 4.92 days!]/b] Aslo compare Trump's use of AF-1. He has flown back and forth to his resorts 30 times for a total of 51,540 miles while President Obama few 3 times to his home in Hawaii by this time in his presidency for a total of 29,978 miles.
Oh yes, and then there are the dozens of times he lied on the campaign trail telling his supporters he "wouldn't have time to golf" or "I won't be golfing".
Oh yes, Trump often criticized Obama for playing golf while Americans were dying from Ebola. Notice that at that point in time, 2 people had died. Today, we will surpass 100,000 deaths in America while Trump plays golf on Memorial Day5/26/2020
Another Trump lie as Coronavirus deaths pass 100,000 in America a little bit ago. (he probably thinks that is Fake News)
Trump claimed that Lamb -- whose first and last name he misspelled as "Connor Lamm" -- is a "puppet" for House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. Trump continued: "He said he would NOT vote for her for Speaker, and did."
Facts First: Lamb, elected in a special election in March 2018 and then again in the general election in November 2018, kept his promise not to vote for Pelosi as speaker. Lamb voted for Rep. Joe Kennedy III of Massachusetts.Trump keeps digging himself in deeper.
5/26/2020
""There is NO WAY (ZERO!) that Mail-In Ballots will be anything less than substantially fraudulent. Mail boxes will be robbed, ballots will be forged & even illegally printed out & fraudulently signed. The Governor of California is sending Ballots to millions of people, anyone living in the state, no matter who they are or how they got there, will get one. That will be followed up with professionals telling all of these people, many of whom have never even thought of voting before, how, and for whom, to vote. This will be a Rigged Election. No way!" - Donald Trump
Facts First - EVERY study done on voter fraud, including mail-in voting, in the last 50 years has found zero evidence of enough fraud to even come close to changing the outcome. The only fraud that has been uncovered in recent memory that changed an outcome wasn't from voters but from Republican Operatives in North Carolina who messed with absentee ballots from old folks and disabled they collected from voters under the guise of mailing it in for them! - REPUBLICAN5/26/2020
Here is one Trump's 'false' statements Twitter found necessary to Fact Check -
"The President's tweets falsely claimed that the governor of California was sending out mail-in ballots to "anyone living in the state, no matter who they are or how they got there." - Since the Gov did no such thing, what does that make Trump's statement? Remember, he is unfortunately the President of the United States putting out crap like that."Since the Gov did no such thing"
What can you offer as proof of this statement? An opinion that it must be true because Trump says it's not? Will you nitpick, saying the governor did not put them in the mailbox himself, so didn't send them?
(If they haven't already, California will soon give a voting franchise to illegal aliens, which I assume was the thrust of the comment.)Wilderness: Your last sentence is just your assumption and your opinion. Why don't you try to prove that Trump is right in saying that mail-in ballots create huge amounts of voter fraud.
Please prove he is right and not lying. All you and he have to do is come up with the evidence to prove he is right. If you can't, then what he said is without evidence and is baseless. Here is what he said:
"TRUMP: “The United States cannot have all Mail In Ballots. It will be the greatest Rigged Election in history. People grab them from mailboxes, print thousands of forgeries and ‘force’ people to sign. Also, forge names. Some absentee OK, when necessary. Trying to use Covid for this Scam!” — tweet SundayThis is how brainwashed WIlderness is given he is defending Trump's obvious lies like:
Mail-in ballots "will be the greatest Rigged Election in history" (as he prepares for what might be an historic loss)
"People grab them from mailboxes" - Lie
"Print thousands of forgeries" - Lie
"force people to sign" - Lie
"Also forge names on ballots" - while I suspect someone might find one or two, that many doesn't fit into his fantasy of the "greatest Rigged Election in history" - therefor Trump is lying there as well.
What I don't understand is why you buy into such BS from Trump, Wilderness?"while I suspect someone might find one or two"
You're right. Now support your claim that there are not many. Do it without data, without research and without any knowledge of the number. That's what you're claiming - that you KNOW it to be false without any information, so prove it to all.
I don't buy BS - you will not find where I said it happens. Only that we don't know. You, on the other hand, claims it does NOT happen...but cannot support the claim because no one has ever seriously checked. And THAT'S what I commented on, not on the truth of anything Trump said.
You're very good at that, Eso - forever turning my comment about your statements into something about Trump, but it doesn't make it reasonable and it doesn't make it right to do so.
I didn't make the claim that he lied, and that claim was what I addressed, or at least the claim that there is no voter fraud. I am not inclined to join the Trash Trump parade, but I will comment on the lies I see here. And that's what I did.
That it is immediately turned into a Trash Trump was no more than diversion from the lie that was given here...the one that I addressed.Wilderness: You call it the Trash Trump parade. What do you think Trump does with his conspiracy theories? He trashes democrats, liberals, and his adversaries.
Yes, his claim about mail fraud is a conspiracy theory without any evidence to support it. In California we all used mail-in ballots for the primaries and I plan on using them for the general election as well. By him trying to block their use is a violation of my legitimate voting rights and to others that want to use that method.
He is afraid of legitimate votes that he can't rig. So therefore, he creates conspiracy theories without evidence to back them up. This is what he says in his claim: “The United States cannot have all Mail In Ballots. It will be the greatest Rigged Election in history."
Notice, his statement is in future tense which means he is predicting the future, but he is presenting it as a fact in the present. How can that be? And do you know what? His supporters will buy into without even questioning it.You just don't get it, do you?
You look at Trump and see lies, exaggerations (you will then call lies), mistakes (you will then call lies) and you are filled with hate to the point that you behave just the same as what you are complaining about - exaggerate, lie and spin anything Trump does to make him look bad.
And when called on it refuse to discuss your own behavior, always reverting to "But Trump bad!" as if is excuses the same actions when you do them. It is to the point that no one else can even mention anything (specifically your own language and lies) without suffering the same fate that Trump does: as a "Trump supporter" (even though never mentioning Trump or what he said) I have to be evil and stupid because I dare question your reasoning and statements, failing to Trash Trump alongside you.Wilderness: Trump is a counter-puncher. You fight fire with fire. Why should I support someone who I think should not run for a second term? I defy you to point out where I lied. I use his own words to make my point.
My reasoning is based on fact, not denial as yours is. You are not evil and stupid. You just bought into the Trump Parade. You don't have to mention his name. You just defend him by trashing my reasoning and others who don't support him.
I would like to look for the good in him, but I don't find any. I see a human being who is broken both ethically and morally and who is only concerned about his own self-interest.
Everything he does is to maintain his delusion of grandeur image. He has divided the country even further, not united it. Did you support Obama for two terms? I think I know the answer to that."You just defend him by trashing my reasoning and others who don't support him. "
And once more I am a nasty Trump defender...because I took exception to your words and reasoning. Reasoning that had no basis in fact for the conclusions drawn.
Let's back up - this started (if I'm not confusing myself with the wrong thread) with a comment that Trump lied when he said that mail in votes give rise to fraud, and you and others called him a liar for saying it.
I did not mention Trump at all, merely commented that we don't know if there is fraud or not because no one checks and therefore calling Trump a liar is based on a near total lack of evidence. I even mentioned, as I recall, that it is typically liberals that prevent any in-depth study of voter fraud...still without mentioning Trump.
Now. Can you explain how a comment that you have no evidence to support your comment is supporting Trump? Either your comments can be proven true or they cannot, and either way it has zero to do with Trump. Only you and your comments on voter fraud.
And yet here we are yet again - I'm deluded for questioning your statement because I support Trump. I defended Trump because I don't agree with your unsupported and unprovable comment. You can find no good in Trump. He is delusional. He has divided the country. He is broken ethically and morally. He is concerned only about his self interest. All of which has exactly zero to do with supporting your own comment that there is no voter fraud, but it is all you have to offer.
And you simply cannot understand the difference between questioning your comments and supporting Trump. When you make false, or even unsupportable, comments questioning them does not support anything...except truth.Wilderness:
I have never said you are a nasty Trump defender. Those are your words.
I showed you 24 conspiracy theories that Trump created of which none of them have a basis for evidence. Should I list them again? You said they are just left wing propaganda.
As I said before, if no one, including Trump can produce factual evidence, then call it what you want. I call it lying.
I am noticing one thing about Trump. He has no filters. He truly says what he is thinking. He may actually believe these theories that he has created. Therefore, in his mind, he is not lying. That in itself is very concerning.
Today he said the looters in Minneapolis should be shot. I truly think that he believes what he has said and if he had his way, he would have them shot. I will bet you dollars to doughnuts, when he is called on the carpet for saying that, he will deny that he ever said it as he has done with many of his statements he has made that he denies making.
There are even videos of him making statements that he denies. He suddenly gets amnesia and doesn't remember. Is that lying? Maybe in his mind, it isn't and maybe you can rationalize that.
How about suggesting to two scientist that it would be alright to inject Clorox into their bodies and then saying that he was just being sarcastic. Is that lying or not?"I showed you 24 conspiracy theories that Trump created of which none of them have a basis for evidence."
Once more, for the umpteenth time, I did not comment on Trump. So which of those 24 conspriacy theories addressed what I DID say, which was that we aren't checking for voter fraud?
And here we are again: I comment on voter fraud, and the comment here that there is none. In return I get:
Trump created 24 conspiracy theories.
Trump is lying.
Trump has no filters.
Trump said looters should be shot.
Trump will deny he said that.
Trump has said many times he didn't say what he did.
There are videos of Trump denying what he said.
Trump gets amnesia over what he said.
Maybe I can rationalize his amnesia.
Trump suggested injecting Clorox into our bodies.
Trump lied again.
Where is the reply to MY comment that we don't check sufficiently for voter fraud to determine that there is none? Nowhere - it is all about Trump regardless of what I have said, which is what I complain about. "Trump bad!" does NOT relate or respond to complaints we do not check for voter fraud, no matter how many times you repeat it!
You say "merely commented that we don't know if there is fraud or not because no one checks " - Well an easy search of the Internet shows that statement to be false - people DO check. And again, if memory serves, you have been given links like the two below. If not me, I bet others have.
Bottom line, it is well known outside the right-wing conspiracy theory circles that there is NO, Zero, Nilche, Nada voter fraud of any consequence
Now, as I have mentioned several times now, there is the one North Carolina case of "voter" fraud involving a Republican Operative who collected up absentee ballots from voters allegedly to mail them in for them - and didn't. I think you have been silent on that.
https://thefulcrum.us/voting/vote-by-mail-studies
https://www.brennancenter.org/sites/def … d_Myth.pdf"And you simply cannot understand the difference between questioning your comments and supporting Trump. "
Well damn! I ain't joining the choir, but that sure seems like a familiar chord.
GAYep - been going on this whole thread. And getting the same results every time - "Trump bad man!" without ever replying to the comment.
And when we do, like I have many times, you simply ignore it and accuse of trashing Trump.
Wilderness: Enlighten me what is the comment that we do not reply to?
Well, this time around you could start with the refusal to discuss or support the statement that we have never done an in-depth study of voter fraud. So far the only reply is that "Of course everybody knows there isn't hardly any" but without any supporting documentation at all.
Wilderness: So your expectation is, an in-depth study does exists and you want me to find it? And if I can't find it, then I don't have the right to say there is very little voter fraud based on the articles that have already been posted and that you are not willing to accept? Why don't you produce the in-depth study if you are so sure it exists and prove us wrong?
We all know he can't and won't. He will just repeat himself.
Now Trump is blaming kids for mail in ballot fraud.
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/trum … CyHzrSnZ1ETrump has got to find someone to blame - it is one of the sypmtoms of his mental illness.
And THAT is exactly what I am talking about, Wilderness ignores things on purpose. Just a few posts back, I responded to exactly that false statement "we have never done an in-depth study of voter fraud."
Here, I will repeat it and maybe you won't ignore it this time and waste everybody's time by making false claims.
You say "merely commented that we don't know if there is fraud or not because no one checks " - Well an easy search of the Internet shows that statement to be false - people DO check. And again, if memory serves, you have been given links like the two below. If not me, I bet others have.
Bottom line, it is well known outside the right-wing conspiracy theory circles that there is NO, Zero, Nilche, Nada voter fraud of any consequence
Now, as I have mentioned several times now, there is the one North Carolina case of "voter" fraud involving a Republican Operative who collected up absentee ballots from voters allegedly to mail them in for them - and didn't. I think you have been silent on that.
https://thefulcrum.us/voting/vote-by-mail-studies
https://www.brennancenter.org/sites/def … d_Myth.pdf
A better question to Wilderness is "did you trash Obama for two terms". If memory serves, he did, with gusto.
Wilderness, it is YOU who don't get it. You look at Trump and all you see is virtue where none exits, competence where none exists, empathy where none exists. I suspect you don't see Hitler as a very bad guy, just a misunderstood leader (much more competent than Trump) who everybody trashed for no reason.
We don't just "look" at Trump and "see lies". Instead, we "listen to Trump and hear lies the majority of the time"?
Trump doesn't just "exaggerate" like normal people do. No. Instead he let's loose with wild hyperbole whose clear intent is to deceive.
When most everybody else sees his bullying and points it out - you call it trashing Trump
When most everybody else sees is pathological lying and points it out - you call it trashing Trump
When most everybody else sees Trump meaning his perceived enemies and points it out - you call it trashing Trump.
When most everybody else sees Trump reversing himself on a weekly basis and points it out - you call it trashing Trump
Well, we call it telling the truth about a very dangerous man.
Tell me Wilderness, how do you prove you didn't beat your wife? If you can do that, then I will try to figure out a way to prove the CA gov DIDN'T send out mail-in ballots to "ANYONE LIVING IN THE STATE ..." as Trump falsely claimed.
Again you deflect and change the story entirely thereby making a false statement yourself. In other words, you are making things up again when you write "Will you nitpick, saying the governor did not put them in the mailbox himself, so didn't send them?" WHERE did I say ANYTHING about the gov personally doing anything?
You got to do better.Go back and read your own comments (what I usually tell you to do). You DID comment about the governor mailing ballots to everyone. A negative one, but a comment about just that.
5/30/2020
"The president keeps lying about one thing (voter fraud) and it's a problem" reads the headline to this article.
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/202 … rig-me.cnnBreaking Down Trump's 654 FALSE claims about Covid. (no, I don't go into them all here, I let CNN reporting do that for me)
https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/29/politics … index.html
Now, dispute each one if you can.5/30/2020
Here is a list of 654 False statements in the 14 weeks of the Covid pandemic. Most, if not all, qualify has lies if you believe is self-aggrandizing statement about himself that he is a stable genius. On the other hand, if he truly believes some of the crap he says, then he is delusional, which is worse!
1. Trump put a travel ban on China - 41 times
2. Trump put a travel ban on Europe- 17 times
3. China, not America, is paying the cost of tariffs - 17 times
4. Democrats advocate "open borders" - 16 times
5. The US used to have a $500 billion trade deficit with China - 13 times
6. Mexico has 27,000 soldiers on the US border - 13 times
7. The US has done more Covid tests than the rest of the world combined - 13 times
8. Trump got the Veteran's Choice program passed - 13 times
9. Trump will always protect people with pre-existing conditions - 12 times
10. Trump inherited broken tests from President Obama - 12 times
That is only 167 of Trump's attempts to mislead and deceive the America public. Those were the most common but remember there are another 487 instances of his deception.
Included in the below link are links to all the other Trump false statements.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/29/politics … index.htmlLatin America followed the Trump "do-little and minimize it" playbook and now look at what is happening - a repeat, if not worse, of what happened in America. Here is one quote from this article.
"Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro and Mexican President Andrés Manuel López Obrador both quickly and consistently played down the threat of the virus in March. Bolsonaro called it a "little flu." López Obrador held up two amulets at a press conference and, smiling, said they would protect him."
(I am guessing that Obrador's amulets are equivalent to Trump's "miracles".)
https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/30/americas … index.html6/3/2020
While the coronavirus has been upstaged in the news cycle by the George Floyd murder, Trump continues to lie, make false statements, deceive, distort, and misdirect.
He tweets " He said he's "done much more for our Black population" than 2020 rival Joe Biden or "any President in U.S. history, - with the possible exception of Abraham Lincoln" - a lie on the face of it.
"The President continued to ignore calls for him to calm racial tension and instead claimed the reason he was moved to a bunker on Friday night amid violent protests was for an "inspection" rather than safety concerns." - Oh come on! Reporting and timeline clearly prove this not true. It is also a sign of his extreme narcissism not wanting to appear weak when that would have been the proper course of action given the events going on outside.
"Trump did offer that law enforcement "have to get better than what they've been doing, I mean obviously it was a terrible thing," when addressing Floyd's killing in the Fox News Radio interview.
"We have to get the police departments, everybody has to do better," Trump said, "This is a long term problem, this didn't happen today."" - Finally, something that is true
"Trump claimed that Washington, DC, Mayor Muriel Bowser would not allow the local police department to help with the protests, " - The problem with that false claim is that D.C. police were on the scene helping
"Trump and others said no tear gas was used," - Though police acknowledged dispersing protesters using a chemical riot control agent that the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says is sometimes referred to as tear gas.
" He also shared an article from The Federalist arguing that the "Media Falsely Claimed Violent Riots Were Peaceful."
Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany echoed the police narrative in a briefing Wednesday, saying "if the protesters had remained peaceful and had moved the perimeter as they were instructed to do not one, not two but three times via loudspeaker, it would have looked different. But when bricks are thrown, rest assured, officers will protect themselves." - Facts First: The administration's claims that violence from protesters led agents to move in is not supported by eye-witness accounts from CNN and other media outlets. It is also contradicted by reports from the Justice Department that the decision to clear the area was made much earlier in the day. - All of this for a campaign photo op that desecrated the Bible (remember that command about no craven images?Scott: Trump is doing what he is hardwired to do and that is to counter-punch and protect his self-image as a tough guy. He doesn't want to unite the country, but wants to divide it, so that he can project power to get re-elected by manipulating the people and the election process. He has a fear of mail-in ballots, because he knows he can't control the electorate.
His use of the insurrection law borders on tyranny by using the federal military to control the people without having permissions from state governors.
For eight years of Obama's presidency, that's all I heard from the gun people is they had a fear of tyranny from the government. Now that we have a real fear of tyranny from this president, he supports those same people by saying he protects the 2nd amendment, but says nothing about the 1st amendment and freedom of speech and the press for the protesters.
He calls out Antifa as a terrorists group because they are anti-fascists. While at the same time, he is suggesting to invoke fascists tactics. Antifa is not even a coherent group, but more of an idea that people subscribe to. They are like the deep state, a figment of Fox News' imagination."He calls out Antifa as a terrorists group because they are anti-fascists."
Now why would you say that? He calls out Antifa as a terrorist group because they target innocent people to harm, just as terrorists do. Whether they claim to be anti-fascists, claim to be fascists or anything else, the fact remains that they target innocent victims to harm, and that makes them a terrorist group just as Trump said.Wilderness: Can you and Trump identify the members of Antifa and the deep state? Trump's and Fox News' game plan is that anybody who commits violence in these settings is Antifa.
Trump is not capable of nuance and details. Further, his game plan is to always diminish the worth of others while bolstering his image and shifting the blame to others, like the deep state. He and his supporters are all perfect people and he always plays the victim.
He reminds me of a little dog who attacks a big one and the big one just sits on the little one while the little one cries and whines as the victim." a little dog who attacks a big one and the big one just sits on the little one while the little one cries and whines as the victim."
"Now that's funny right there I don't care who you are. That there is funny."
GAGA: I'm glad I could bring a little levity into your life. But make no mistake, I'm dead serious about Trump playing the victim. It's right out of his playbook.
MikeI know you were serious Mike. I just chose to address the funny mental image that quip created.
To support why my thoughts went that way: I have a brindle German Plott Hound, (just a large version of a Labrador), that looks and sounds ferocious. But he is so gentle you could lay a baby on him and my great-nephews try to ride him all the time.
My neighbor has two of those little yapper dogs that they bring outside together for potty breaks. They yap constantly without a reason, but if my dog happens to be out at the same time, all hell breaks loose.
The yappers go into overdrive, tying up their human's legs with their leashes, and my dog goes into simulated defense mode; back hair bristling, tail curved so tight you could piece metal with it, and a bark that believably says I am going to eat you.
That's when the yappers mount their counter-argument from behind their helpless human's legs. It would be funny to me if I didn't have to leave the deck and get my dog back into the house before someone calls the cops.
GAGA: I got that idea from watching my friends dachshund attack big dogs She would run out of the house and act and sound like she was going to tear the big dog apart. The dogs usually just sat on top of her or stood over her while she would go into submission by usually flipping upside down crying and whining like a baby. It's the funniest damn thing to watch. But on the other hand, I've seen her make a great Dane cower.
Mike
Good for Trump - if he chooses to label rioters bent on destroying the lives of other people they don't even know and have done nothing wrong as being the same as the terrorists that took 3,000 lives they didn't know and done nothing wrong either, good for him. It is an apt description. Not a nuance or detail; a good description.
But I asked why you would claim that he labeled them that because they are (or claim to be) against fascism. Is that something you just made up or did he say that?
Is that really true Wilderness, do you have evidence that targeting innocent people is the goal of those who oppose fascism in America.
Can you point to the leadership of Antifa like you can with many of the White Supremacist terrorist groups such as the New Jersey European Heritage Association or The Base or Atomwaffen Division?Have you stopped beating your wife?
There really isn't a reason to respond to that as I did not say it, did not insinuate it and gave no possible reason for you to think that.
On the other hand, Antifa does target innocent people for harm. And have said so - do you still doubt that the group promotes violence and destruction during protest actions?Wilderness: You do understand that Anitfa stands for Anti-fascism don't you? That means they are against the fascist movement. It is an organic movement that is a continuum from being violently against fascism to being peacefully against fascism. It has no leader and no headquarters.
They are against white supremacist and neo-nazi groups who wear their firearms and fly their confederate flags and swastika's proudly and are anti-semantic while trying to infiltrate places like Charlottesville and the Michigan governor's capital. Oh! and by the way, the most important thing is that, they support Trump and he calls them fine people. Now how is that for an irony?
Trump can try to label Antifa as a terrorist group, but they are not a group. So what Trump and his people do is say there are people who act like Antifa or they have Antifa like ideologies.
Why would an Anti-Fascist group even be protesting in a black man's use of force protest? What Trump and his cohorts did with clearing the DC protesters so that he could have his church and bible photo op, smacks of fascism with the mounted horses pushing people out the way and bringing in convoys of troops flash bang grenades, rubber bullets and, riot gas. Yes, they can do that in D.C. but Trump said he would do it on the streets of this country if governors could not dominate the streets. That my friend is fascism.Don't you even read what you write? Quote from you "He calls out Antifa as a terrorist group because they target innocent people to harm, just as terrorists do. "
YOU said that, not Trump. YOU said that not me. Trying being honest, Wilderness.Apologies; I responded to the wrong comment with my own.
But I absolutely DO support the idea that Antifa targets innocent people with their riot driven violence. Those stores have done nothing to anyone but provide jobs and services to everyone. Nor, for that matter, have the cops that have been murdered done anything wrong, yet they are just as dead. As a direct result of Antifa's and BLM's promotion of violence.
Do you disagree? Does Antifa carefully choose which stores the rioters should burn, which cops should be murdered? Or just promote violence and rioting in general?Wilderness: You do understand that Anitfa stands for Anti-fascism don't you? That means they are against the fascist movement. It is an organic movement that is a continuum from being violently against fascism to being peacefully against fascism. It has no leader and no headquarters.
They are against white supremacist and neo-nazi groups who wear their firearms and fly their confederate flags and swastika's proudly and are anti-semantic while trying to infiltrate places like Charlottesville and the Michigan governor's capital. Oh! and by the way, the most important thing is that, they support Trump and he calls them fine people. Now how is that for an irony?
Trump can try to label Antifa as a terrorist group, but they are not a group. So what Trump and his people do is say there are people who act like Antifa or they have Antifa like ideologies.
Why would an Anti-Fascist group even be protesting in a black man's use of force protest? What Trump and his cohorts did with clearing the DC protesters so that he could have his church and bible photo op, smacks of fascism with the mounted horses pushing people out the way and bringing in convoys of troops flash bang grenades, rubber bullets and, riot gas. Yes, they can do that in D.C. but Trump said he would do it on the streets of this country if governors could not dominate the streets. That my friend is fascism.People, none of this has a thing to do with the actions being promoted by the group that calls itself "Antifa". You can exclaim that they are not a group at all, that they don't exist and that they have no leadership, but when I see large numbers of people wearing Antifa symbols, when I read the website promoting their ideology (which amounts to anarchy, not anti-fascism), when I listen to speeches from people labeling themselves as "Antifa" it gives the lie to that statement.
"Definition of fascism <Mirriam Webster>
1often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition"
And when I see and hear those calling themselves Antifa promoting the burning of cities and harming innocent people I have to question their dedication to removing fascism at all. Such actions are those of terrorists, intent on spreading their own brand of control and/or anarchy, not a dislike of fascism.
You're complaining that police, the law and even Trump are fascism because they enforce laws enacted by duly and democratically elected representatives...while ignoring those that burn cities down and destroy what others have built, all in extremely criminal actions. You need to look at your definitions again, and at just who is doing what.Wildderness:
Trump administration
In August 2017, a petition was lodged with the White House petitioning system We the People calling upon President Donald Trump to formally classify "AntiFa" as terrorist. The White House responded in 2018 that federal law does not have a mechanism for formally designating domestic terrorist organizations.[104][105][106] The writer of the petition later stated he had created it to "bring our broken right side together" and to "prop up antifa as a punching bag".[107]
In September 2017, Politico obtained confidential documents and interviews indicating that in April 2016 the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) and the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) believed that "anarchist extremists" were the primary instigators of violence at public rallies against a range of targets. Politico interviewed unidentified law enforcement officials who noted a rise in activity since the beginning of the Trump administration, particularly a rise in recruitment (and on the part of the far-right as well) since the Charlottesville Unite the Right rally. One internal assessment acknowledged an inability to penetrate the groups' "diffuse and decentralized organizational structure". By 2017, the FBI and the DHS reported that they were monitoring suspicious antifa activity in relation to terrorism.[108]
During the Trump administration, the term antifa became "a conservative catch-all" term as Trump, administration officials, Trump base supporters and right-wing commentators applied the label to all sorts of left-leaning or liberal protest actions.[109] Conservative writers such as L. Brent Bozell III labeled Black Lives Matter as "antifa".[109] Politico reported that "the term [antifa] is a potent one for conservatives" because "[i]t's the violent distillation of everything they fear could come to pass in an all-out culture war. And it's a quick way to brand part of the opposition".[109] Alexander Reid Ross, who teaches at Portland State University, argued that the popularization of the term antifa was a reaction to the popularization of the term alt-right, "to the point where [the word antifa] simply describes people who are anti-fascist or people who are against racism and are willing to protest against it".[109]
Attorney General William Barr blamed "anarchic and far left extremist groups using Antifa-like tactics" for violence during the nationwide George Floyd protests in May and June 2020 while President Trump tweeted that "ANTIFA and the Radical Left" were responsible.[110] National Security Advisor Robert O'Brien said the violence was "being driven by antifa"[111] and Trump warned antifa and other "organizers of this terror to be on notice that you will face severe criminal penalties and lengthy sentences in jail".[112] On May 31, Barr issued a statement describing the actions of "Antifa and other similar groups" as "domestic terrorism"[113] and Trump tweeted that "[t]he United States of America will be designating ANTIFA as a Terrorist Organization".[114][115][116] Since under existing law the federal government may designate only foreign organizations as terrorist, the president has no authority to officially declare antifa a terrorist group.[117] Moreover, antifa is a loosely associated movement rather than a specific organization.[117] Legal experts believe designating antifa as a terrorist group would be unconstitutional, raising First Amendment and due process issues.[117][118] On June 2, The Nation published an internal situation report from the FBI's Washington Field Office stating it had "no intelligence indicating Antifa involvement/presence" in the violent May 31 D.C.-area protests.[119] On June 4, Attorney General Barr said: "We have evidence that antifa and other similar extremist groups, as well as actors of a variety of different political persuasions have been involved in instigating and participating in the violent activity".[1Sounds like Trump responded exactly as he should have (1st paragraph). Are you blaming him for that correct response or is it Trump's fault that somebody called in a request that cannot be met?
I'm not sure what the rest has to do with recognition that Antifa promotes violence against the innocent, exactly as terrorists do. This is in line with what the US AG has stated, just as you report - was that the whole point, that Antifa behaves in a terrorist like manner? Or was the whole thing just another reversion from Antifa and terrorist labels to just more Bash Trump?Wilderness: Please read this again, especially the last sentence.
"In August 2017, a petition was lodged with the White House petitioning system We the People calling upon President Donald Trump to formally classify "AntiFa" as terrorist. The White House responded in 2018 that federal law does not have a mechanism for formally designating domestic terrorist organizations.[104][105][106] The writer of the petition later stated he had created it to "bring our broken right side together" and to "prop up antifa as a punching bag".[107]"
Let me "splain" it to you. They are lumping all violence together and blaming Antifa, because Trump always has to shift the blame to others.
As I said before, he can't deal with nuance. It's easier for him to lump everybody together and give them a label like Antifa than to differentiate groups. If the only tool in your tool box is a hammer, then every problem looks like a nail.Wait. An unknown person called upon Trump to classify Antifa as terrorists, Trump said he couldn't do that, and it Trump's fault because he "always has to shift the blame to others".
You understand just how lame that is; that Trump is at fault because someone made a request you don't like so make up a reason to blame Trump for the request - an excuse that has nothing whatsoever to do with the request.
Then you go on to say he can't deal with nuance and that it's easier to lump everybody together...and once more that opinion is used to demonize Trump for what that unknown person requested. Again, you have to understand how removed that is from reality. It is once more a clear case of TDS, wherein Trump is to blame for everything that goes wrong and everyone that says or does something wrong.Wilderness: TDS and the deep state don't exists. They are a manifestation of Fox News' wild imagination.
What in the world does that have to do with blaming Trump for what an unknown person requested?
Nevertheless I will respond to your comment as written even if you won't. The existence of Trump Disorder Syndrome, defined as an overriding preoccupation with demeaning our president, is apparent in these forums and elsewhere. The "deep state", defined as persons controlling the actions of our leaders and perhaps our corporations themselves, is also apparent. Those persons may be the leaders of political parties, they may be the controlling people of giant corporations, they may be other countries or they may be other, but they certainly do exist. Something is controlling the actions of our leading citizens and decision makers beyond themselves - through political coercion, through financial coercion, through threat of prison or simple job loss, but they are doing it.Wilderness: Until they can actually be proven, they are nothing more than conspiracy theories.
They will never be proven to your satisfaction because you don't want them to be true. To those that approach the question with an open mind they are quite apparent, whether documented by an expert (you approve of) or not.
As a very simple example, when some 540 people vote along almost perfect party lines in an impeachment effort it is rather obvious, to those that question with an open mind, that someone is pulling the strings to produce that result. But you will deny it, perhaps because you feel it will harm your perception of reality or it disturbs the godhead you have assigned to those of the Democrat party. It is absolutely beyond any rational conclusion that only 0.3% of those voting would step outside the wishes of their party leaders and but that their votes are not controlled by something other than their own conclusion of guilt or innocence. The human species doesn't work that way.
It's very similar to a blind man denying that the sky is blue. He can't see it and doesn't want to believe it for some reason, so will forever deny reality.Wilderness: So according to you, the deep state is "someone pulling the strings."
This may be of interest to you:
https://www.npr.org/2019/11/06/77685284 … y-its-usedOK - he doesn't like the use of the term to describe left leaning opposition to Trump. Neither do I.
But what is your point? That he (and you) prefer to define the term as merely the massive inertia of a huge bureaucracy? That's fine, I guess, but you know as well as I do that that is NOT how it is being used today.
Are you choosing to use a different definition than others are? If so, how is that working out for you as far as intelligent discussion goes? Are you and your discussion partner understanding each other well?
I gave you MY definition of that term, mostly because I assumed you would disagree with it even though you fully understand the modern meaning. Now you want to argue semantics and definition even as you fully understand what I was trying to communicate?Wilderness: You are right that is not how it is being used today. It has been co-opted by Trump, his cohorts and Fox News to mean the left has a secret organization whose mission is to undermine Trump...big difference my friend. It is not just a matter of semantics.
I defy you and Trump to prove that organization actually exists other than in conspiracy theories. Who knows, even I could be a member!!! That's the beauty of the Trump playbook. He deals in conspiracy theories and generalities where he can blame his actions on others and it can't be proven one way or the other. It's open-ended and he loves that.
You call it bashing Trump. I call it exposing Trump for who and what he really is.No, no. You don't get to go into another tirade about Trump; it has NOT been co-opted by Trump to indicate left leaning politics.
It HAS been co-opted by thousands to mean the hidden faces pulling the puppet strings of politicians. That Trump would claim it is all the left is irrelevant, just as others on the left would claim it is all from the right. As it was not co-opted by Trump, no matter how much you claim it was, yes, it is simply Bashing Trump once more.
(It's almost comical to see you claim Trump as a conspircy theory nut. The man that claimed he was wire tapped...and was. The man that said they were after him in the Russian collusion fiasco...and was right. Over and over we've see Democrats doing exactly what that conspiracy theory nut said they were doing to him...and he was proven right - "they" ARE after him, legally and illegally. And here you are once more saying he is just another conspiracy theory nut.
I gave you what I consider extremely strong statistical proof in that one example of the party line votes during impeachment. You're either ignoring it, pretending it wasn't said at all or refusing to discuss because you cannot refute the idea.
I have a more correct definition of the so-called TDS as "an overriding preoccupation with protecting our nation from a dangerous and mentally ill president."
Few people would define "protecting our nation" from anything as the incessant attempts to divide, the approval and hiding of illegal activities by FBI or faux impeachment attempts, etc. Fewer still will agree that a man found to be in good mental health by the only doctor to make an examination is "mentally ill"...unless suffering from TDS themselves.
And ONLY those suffering themselves will find that it is necessary to be "protected" from a president with the track record of success in economic and job issues that this one has. Perhaps because those suffering insist that those successes came from a previous president that made no effort to "Make America Great Again", and instead caved to anything demanded by the socialist and communist countries demanding that we buy what they want FOR them because they don't want to pay for it themselves.Wilderness: They said that Obama led from behind, but it is really Trump who is leading from behind. He was and is still leading from behind on the Corona virus, because all his attention and energy is focused on one thing...getting re-elected.
He makes declaration about the virus going away and the economy getting better based on nothing but his own wishful thinking that creates false hope for his supporters. The rest of us know better than to believe his B.S.
You may be interested in this as information about Trump's conspiracy theories.
https://www.businessinsider.com/donald- … ies-2016-5Yes, of course. The first president to take the theft of intellectual property to China. The first president to visit N. Korea or take Kim to task for his actions. The first president in recent history to work on reducing unnecessary rules on business.
All "leading from behind COVID", of course.Wilderness, get you facts right.
"The first president to take the theft of intellectual property to China." - WRONG! Clinton, Bush, and Obama attempted to do something. Didn't get the results they wanted and neither did Trump
"The first president to visit N. Korea or take Kim to task for his actions. " - True as far as it goes. Trump had one of his famous Photo Ops a few feet inside the North Korean border. He gave a murderous dictator the status of a world leader - STUPID. He showed the world how easy it is for another dictator to get Trump to do whatever he wants. And what did Trump get for all of his bad diplomacy and bluster - not a damn thing!!
"The first president in recent history to work on reducing unnecessary rules on business. " - "Recent to you must begin in 2017. BTW, who determines when a rule is "unnecessary"? Is it the businesses the rule affects? Is it conservatives who want no rules whatsoever? What rules has Trump eliminated other than ones designed to protect the environment??
Why, Wilderness, do conservatives like you think that jobs and the economy are all that matters? I will give you that in the three years he was president, he wan't able to destroy what Obama started. But he DID try.
Sooner or later his dumb trade war would have drug down the economy as it has every other time a president was stupid enough to start one. Jefferson and Hoover are two examples. It was already bankrupting farmers left and right, but he (and presumably you) didn't care.
Everything else important to America has been trashed by Trump - everything.
I don't think that is a good choice My Esoteric. The "overriding preoccupation" part fetches thoughts of OCD behavior.
GA ;-)So are you suggesting that a lackadaisical approach to "protecting our nation from a dangerous and mentally ill president". is a better choice of words.
To me "overriding preoccupation" implies "great concern" or "clear and present danger".or "survival of the nation"
Also, I am not sure OCD would be the correct behavioral term. Obsessive compulsive maybe.No, I was saying that the terminology of your definition elicited thoughts about OCD.
You say "obsessive compulsive maybe," but OCD is not the right term?
Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. Then you must be taking issue with the "Disorder" part?
Considering how some type of "Trump bad" is being inserted into any and all—including non-Trump related, conversations, I think the disorder part fits.
Chill bud. It was a joke.
GA
Wilderness: Read it again. It doesn't say Trump responded, it says the White House responded. The fact that Trump has just issued an executive order stating that Antifa is a terrorists organization is a very good indication that he tried in 2017 and his advisers told him in 2017 he couldn't do it, just like he can't do it now because of the same law that was in effect in 2017.
Do you deny that he generalizes and uses derogatory labels on people and things? He is not blamed for everything that goes wrong, but he does shift the blame to others for when his is wrong. Have you ever heard him say was wrong about anything?Wait. That Trump issued an executive order that Antifa is a terrorist organization is an indication that he tried in 2017 AND that his advisers told him then that he couldn't do it? The logic escapes me - can you expand the line of thought so that it indicates an action now indicates that same action in the past?
How is it that if the WH makes a statement you don't like it is Trump, while if the WH statement is felt to support a position you like it was a subordinate making it without Trumps approval? Is that just another method to find things to complain about?
But you still haven't explained how Trump is to blame because an unknown person made an untenable request. Until you learn to respond to the question asked I'm not concerned about following you into the "Bash Trump" area and so will not respond to your question you made designed to denigrate him.Wilderness:
"In August 2017, a petition was lodged with the White House petitioning system We the People calling upon President Donald Trump to formally classify "AntiFa" as terrorist. The White House responded in 2018 that federal law does not have a mechanism for formally designating domestic terrorist organizations.[105][106][107] The writer of the petition later stated he had created it to "bring our broken right side together" and to "prop up antifa as a punching bag".[108
On May 31, Barr issued a statement describing the actions of "Antifa and other similar groups" as "domestic terrorism"[114] and Trump tweeted that "[t]he United States of America will be designating ANTIFA as a Terrorist Organization".[115][116][117] Since under existing law the federal government may designate only foreign organizations as terrorist, the president has no authority to officially declare antifa a terrorist group.[118] Moreover, antifa is a loosely associated movement rather than a specific organization.[118] Legal experts believe designating antifa as a terrorist group would be unconstitutional, raising First Amendment and due process issues.[118][119] On June 2, The Nation published an internal situation report from the FBI's Washington Field Office stating it had "no intelligence indicating Antifa involvement/presence" in the violent May 31 D.C.-area protests.[120] On June 4, Attorney General Barr said: "We have evidence that antifa and other similar extremist groups, as well as actors of a variety of different political persuasions have been involved in instigating and participating in the violent activity".[121]"
I don't believe Barr, in view of all the lying has done for Trump.Of course you don't believe Barr; he's not on the Trash Trump bandwagon.
But what has that got to do with blaming Trump for an impossible request someone else made? You still haven't addressed that at all, and repeating what you already said still doesn't.Wilderness: What part of he tried it again just a few days ago and it is still illegal don't you understand?
Interesting, I looked for the Antifa website you were referring to Wilderness and guess what, I couldn't find one. Care to supply the URL?
https://antifascistnetwork.org/
https://phillyantifa.org/
https://www.facebook.com/antifa.usa/
https://www.rosecityantifa.org/
Here's an interesting CNN (you should love that) article:
https://www.cnn.com/2017/08/18/us/unmas … index.html
A couple of quotes from it:
"A federal indictment charges individuals in the group <rioters dressed in Antifa black, not specifically identified as Antifa> with starting fires, property destruction and physical violence that erupted on the streets as the 45th President of the United States took his oath of office."
"Many of those arrested identified themselves as part of the Antifa movement. Its name derives from "anti-fascist," and it has come to represent what experts who track these organizations call the "hard left".
And their methods are often violent. Antifa leaders admit they're willing to physically attack anyone who employs violence against them or who condones racism -- as long as force is used in the name of eradicating hatred."
CNN did not, of course, mention that they also condone riots harming innocent people, but then we would not expect them to as Antifa is a part of the same left wing CNN is.
Would you care for some more? Strange that you couldn't find an Antifa website as I found these (and more) with a simple google (actually, Bing) search.
Then we are back to you proving your claim? How do you know it is Antifa-types doing that. Why couldn't it be White Supremacists doing that, they have been seen on the streets as well inciting violence.
Where is your proof that BLM promotes violence? They, as a group, don't actually. They are trying to reduce it, especially against themselves.
Antifa doesn't do anything, they don't exist as an organized force, unlike most violent White Supremacist groups.
I think you are just making things up again Wilderness.It is true that it could be white supremacists wearing Antifa hats, clothed as Antifa has made popular and chanting Antifa slogans that are the perpetrators of riots. Do you believe that?
No, of course BLM doesn't promote violence - they just repeatedly say that the only to effect change is through violence.
Just as Antifa doesn't exist; except that thousands claim to belong to it, it has a web site with professed demands and certain people claim to speak for it. Doesn't exist at all, does it? Did you expect them to register with the FBI as a terrorist group dedicated to overthrowing current laws and the justice system as a pre-requisite for existence?
6/9/2020
Trump did a bellyflop into a cesspool with this tweet about the old, white guy in Buffalo that police shoved to the ground and walked on by (one officer did try to help but was shoved forward by his superior) as blood poured out of his ear on to the sidewalk. Then the cops lied about what happened.
"On Tuesday morning, the President tweeted a right-wing conspiracy theory that the man, 75-year-old Martin Gugino, "could be an ANTIFA provocateur" who "was pushed away after appearing to scan police communications in order to black out the equipment." The President continued by saying, "I watched, he fell harder than was pushed. Was aiming scanner. Could be a set up?"
It has all of the Trump 'tells" as he lays out his next conspiracy theory - "Could be an ...." , "after appearing to ...", "could be a ...".
THE TRUTH, 1) THERE is zero evidence the old white man held antifa views, 2) he had a CELL PHONE (I watched and could easily see it), 3) Trump is disseminating, again, Russian propaganda from a Russian source, just like he didn't spreading Putin's false narrative about who interfered with our election and helped get him elected
This is just one more Trump lie and provacation.I read about that tweet. Star Trek's Spock had a line I firmly believe.
However, in this instance, all I can do is SMH.
Imagine how silly we will look if that possibility came to be true.
GARight now Trump is like a child in his playpen playing with his toys and uttering these inane conspiracies and tweets.. He can do and say anything he wants or do or say nothing. He knows that.
His parents are the people who could hold him accountable, but they are sitting at the table all boozed up. And little Donny knows that. The GOP senate and all Trumps staff members are not going to reprimand him, they all have their heads buried in the political sand and are afraid of their jobs at this point.
They want him to make peace with the black lives matter people, but they know he is not capable. So instead, he does what he does best and that is tell stories, just like the kid in the playpen. His toys are the military and national guard that he can bring out anytime he wants and his boozed up parents could care less. They think it's cute. Stay tuned for the next installment of Little Donny and his Toys.You got all that from my meme?
(just kidding, I know you just grabbed it as a launchpad for your thoughts ;-))
GA
Trump's latest LIE. He said that Covid-19 has been reduced to "ashes". Well here is what "ashes" means to Trump - 20,000 new cases a day and 1,000 new deaths A DAY in America.
Yet his supporters will repeat this lie ad nauseum.6/17/2020
Remember when Trump lied when he said
"“Now, the virus that we’re talking about having to do — you know, a lot of people think that goes away in April with the heat — as the heat comes in. Typically, that will go away in April. We’re in great shape, though. We have 12 cases, 11 cases, and many of them are in good shape now.” " AND “We have it very much under control in this country.”
Well, just 3 months later at least 2 million Americans have been infected and over 117 thousand Americans have died as a result. Yet Trump is still lying that Covid-19 will magically disappear soon. (when? when 5 million are infected and 500,000 dead?
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/17/politics … index.htmlHave you noticed that the states (mostly Republican) who reacted slowly and opened early are the ones with increasing positivity rates (as well as number of cases and deaths).
These are the states where R-naught is greater than one, meaning covid cases are expanding with each infected person, are:
Alabama (R)
Alaska (R)
Arizona (R)
Arkansas (R)
Florida (R)
Hawaii (D)
Louisiana (D - but full of conservatives who believe Trump)
Mississippi (R)
North Carolina (D)
Oklahoma (R)
Oregon (D)
South Carolina (R)
Tennessee (R)
Texas (R)
Utah (R)
Washington (D)
Do you see a pattern here???Yes, and how about his rally where he is making everyone sign a waiver, so that he can't be sued when they get the virus? He has to have his admiration fix, no matter how many people become infected.
He and his people are also spreading propaganda about if people aren't tested then the infection rate goes down. He must think people are as stupid as he is.That is true. It is looking very much like he will take the Republican Senate with him as he loses
Generally, the Senate polls are pretty bake-in by this time in the cycle if the results are outside the Margin of Error. If I were a betting man, and I use to be, it could very easily come down this way.
AL goes R
AZ goes D (offsets AL)
CO goes D +1
ME goes D +2
NC goes D +3
GA goes D
GA special stays R
IA good shot at going D
KY McGrath is holding her own
SC Harrison is within striking distance at the moment.
MT Bullock has a good chance of turning it Blue
Bottom line, lots of ways for the Ds to take back the Senate.
With the Generic House poll running +8 in favor of the Ds, that means a good chance of increasing their majority.
The Latest Trump Lie about Coronavirus as he is set to infect hundreds of people at his dangerous rally.
6/17/2020
Trump's latest lie in an interview with
JACQUELINE POLICASTRO: Coronavirus cases are rising in 22 states, including Oklahoma, where you plan to hold a big rally this week. Aren’t you worried about people getting sick?
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: No, because if you look, the numbers are very minuscule compared to what it was. It’s dying out.
This as cases pass 2.3 MILLION nationwide at a rate of 25,000 new cases a day (roughly the same as the three month average) and keeping pace with increased testing.
He says this stupid thing as deaths will approach a quarter MILLION in the next few months.
How do Trump supporters stomach his bald-faced lies???
https://www.live5news.com/2020/06/17/tr … interview/6/20/2020
A new non-covid related Lie from Trump.
"More than two weeks after his controversial photo-op outside a Washington, DC, church, President Donald Trump offered a new explanation last week for why he didn't enter St. John's Episcopal Church. In an interview with the Wall Street Journal on Wednesday Trump said there were "a lot of insurance reasons" for why he couldn't go in.
That isn't true.
Facts First: "There were no insurance reasons" why Trump could not have entered St. John's Church, Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde of the Episcopal Diocese of Washington told CNN on Friday. She said only a small room in the basement of the church, a nursery, had been damaged in a fire the day prior, and "the main sanctuary was not harmed at all."6/20/2020
Since Trump has put the coronavirus pandemic behind him and is pretending it doesn't exist anymore, he is returning to his old stock of lies - this one about VA Choice.
"The President claimed his administration was responsible for passing VA choice, which provided the Department of Veterans Affairs more resources to improve access for veterans and allow them to seek care from non-VA providers.
Trump later added to the falsehood, saying “for decades and decades they wanted to get it done.”
[b]Facts First:[/b[ The Veterans Choice bill, a bipartisan initiative led by senators Bernie Sanders and the late John McCain, was signed into law by President Barack Obama in 2014. In 2018, Trump signed the VA Mission Act, which expanded and changed the Choice program."And now Mike Pence has jumped on Trump's bandwagon of lies about Covid.
6/26/20
In the first meeting of the Covid task force in 2 months, does Pence talk about what they are going to do about the now almost exponential growth of cases throughout America? NO. He minimizes it and pretends it is not happening, just like his boss.
The reality - the US had just hit a single-day record for new coronavirus cases - EVER.. More than half the states were seeing increases in the rate of new cases. Multiple states were dealing with record numbers of coronavirus hospitalizations. Texas had announced hours earlier that it had to shut down in-person service at its bars again.
And what did Pence do? He lied to Americans by telling us that things were going well.
"Pence boasted that "we flattened the curve" ---" That is true -- LAST MONTH! However, "the curve for the number of new confirmed cases has headed sharply upward again in June (in the majority of states) after a decline and then plateau in April and May."
Pence lied when he said "what we're observing today" in Sun Belt states is that many young people who "have no symptoms" are testing positive. - Yet Texas, Arizona, and Florida report they keep hitting new highs for people with symptoms serious enough that they need to be hospitalized.
"Pence described the Sun Belt situation as particular "outbreaks" occurring in "specific counties" and "specific communities" --" - implying that these reports are just "isolated" incidents. This is not TRUE given that the places experiencing a "massive resurgence" include some of the most populous counties in the country."
Pence lied by claiming that "all 50 states" are "opening up safely and responsibly" - Then why are states like Texas and Florida closing back down somewhat and 28 other states were experiencing large increases in the rate of new cases, and though these states reopened without having met the administration's recommended safety milestones. How is that safely??
The biggest lie from Pence is "As we see new cases rising -- and we're tracking them very carefully - there may be a tendency among the American people to think that we are back to that place that we were two months ago. That we're in a time of great losses and great hardship on the American people. The reality is we're in a much better place," - Really??!! "Though Pence was right that the current number of daily deaths is substantially lower than it was at its peak, the pandemic is still killing more than 500 Americans a day (and that will be going up substantially in about two weeks). The May unemployment rate was 13.3%. In other words, the loss and the hardship continue."
It was predicted by the real experts that IF the states opened outside the CDC guidelines which most (mainly Republican led) did, then cases and needless death will certainly increase substantially. They are right and it is getting worse. In some places, the rate of increase is approaching exponential (explosive) growth again."Pence lied when he said "what we're observing today" in Sun Belt states is that many young people who "have no symptoms" are testing positive. - Yet Texas, Arizona, and Florida report they keep hitting new highs for people with symptoms serious enough that they need to be hospitalized."
And that makes him a liar, right? Because he gave the portion of the news that he wanted you to hear but not the part YOU wanted to hear. While you do the exact same thing:
"The reality - the US had just hit a single-day record for new coronavirus cases - EVER." Is there a reason you don't mention that it is a single day record for discovered new cases, and that we didn't use to put the effort into finding them that we are now?
Isn't that exactly what Pence did - give part of the story that you want to expound on while ignoring the rest of the story?
But he's a liar and you're not.Yes, it is a lie because it presents a false reality. It has nothing to do with "portions". It has to do with the Truth, the Whole Truth, and Nothing But the Truth.
???? "discovered new" vs "new". Stretching a bit aren't you??
Now, if you had completed your point by showing that hospitalization rates have gone down, then you might have a legitimate point. But they are going up in most cases which invalidates you and Trump.
Oh, btw way. Answer the question of WHY we didn't "use to put the effort into finding them" and WHY Trump says we do too much testing? Do you think he is intelligent for saying such a thing?And if you had talked of hospitalization rates I would not have commented. But you didn't, did you? You talked of "new cases", while setting aside the vastly increased search for them. A part of the story, then, just like Pence.
But he lied because he didn't report the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth and you didn't, although you conveniently left out a huge portion of it just as Pence did. Got it.
(What Trump says has exactly zero to do with your lies)You are stretching again, Wilderness. Pence left out a contradictory piece of the story, I didn't. Had he included the whole story, he would have shot himself in the foot. Had I included info about hospitalization rates, it would have just supported my point. It wasn't needed because people already know hospitalization rates are going up. Pence refused to point out the failing in his own statement.
On the few occasions that Trump stops pretending there is no Covid epidemic, he lies and says it is almost over.
Yet EXPERTS now tell us the spread is almost uncontrollable. Republican governors of states like Florida, Texas, and Arizona refuse to hire (even though there are plenty of unemployed people to hire) enough contact tracers to tamp down the spread. Belatedly they have been shamed into shutting bars and the like back down and closing beaches.
Meanwhile evangelical churches keep spreading the virus like they do the gospel.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/30/health/u … index.html
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/2 … hes-342296Trump once again tries to fool his base (nobody else believes him) by falsely claiming the coronavirus will disappear someday like magic.
7/1/2020
He says "Trump himself suggested in an interview Wednesday the virus may take care of itself." and "I think we're going to be very good with the coronavirus. I think that at some point that's going to sort of just disappear,"
Notice how he leaves himself room by saying "at some point". But, not even that is not true - Covid is never going away. He just lives in fantasyland and wants you to live there with him.
Now his aides are trying to figure out how to spin that nonsense.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/01/politics … index.htmlThis is what Donald Trump is purposefully ignoring - SO SAD and stupid.
* Texas students at "pong party" catch and exposed to Covid
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/01/us/texas … index.html
* Dozen's of Washington fraternity students test positive.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/01/us/unive … index.html
* Evangelical Churches are super-spreaders of coronavirus
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/2 … hes-342296
* Beaches are super-spreaders of coronavirus
https://www.wjhl.com/coronavirus/popula … -hotspots/
* Bars are super-spreaders of coronavirus
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/st … s-hot-spotHow many more times does Donald Trump have to tell you that "everything is under control" and imply the "mission is accomplished" before it dawns on you that he is lying to you?
This is your president on July 3, 2020 who bemoaned America moving past slavery.
"Just like he [Trump} does on his Twitter feed, which is dominated by dismay over the toppling of statues of racist figures from America's past, Trump minimized the dangers of the pandemic Friday night in South Dakota, expressing more concern for the safety of statues than of the American people."
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/04/politics … index.html7/4/2020
Here is another set of lies Trump supporters are forced to defend.
"Now we have tested, almost 40 million people. By so doing, we show cases -- 99% of which are totally harmless [lie 1]-- results that no other country can show because no other country has testing that we have," Trump said. "Not in terms of the numbers, or in terms of the quality[lie 2]."
The only way Trump's first claim cannot be a lie is if he and his defenders don't think of death as being harmful. Consider - as of July 4, there have been 2,935,088 confirmed cases of Covid in the US. That means there must be less than 29,351 deaths for Trump's claim to be true. As of July 4, there have been 132,101 deaths. You do the math.
Also, apparently Trump and his defending supporters don't think that all of the permanent lung, neurological, and other organ damage survivors must endure for the rest of their lives as being "harmful" either. Do you?
As to the Second Lie
[i]There are only a handful of countries where Covid is out of control. They are the US, Russia, India, Brazil, Peru, and Chili. That is testament that the remainder of nations have an effective testing, tracing, and quarantining program - much better than ours qualitatively.[/iNo, you do the math. Be sure to include that all of the early cases were from people bad enough to enter the hospital, and that it only slowly changed after the initial rush. Then consider that we are now testing nearly anyone and everyone, that the severity of cases has fallen considerably, and that we're finding more and more people with the disease but virtually no symptoms.
Personally I think Trump was guilty of some exaggeration (as always) but that it isn't nearly as much as you portray.
Your second "lie" is because you changed what he said from the number of cases to the number, and quality, of testing being done. It is true that his words can be interpreted as you did, but I think most people would understand that that "quality and quantity" refers to testing.
Then to blame Trump for the idiocy of tens of thousands of people hitting the beaches and riots while he does not trace and quarantine...well, we both know that Trump does not have the legal ability to institute the programs that other countries have. And that the American population would not stand for it if he did.I'll stand by the fact that 132,000 deaths FAR exceed anything Trump could possibly have meant by Coronavirus is basically harmless. I cannot believe you would agree that it is 99% harmless - that is simply absurd.
I didn't call is "quantity" reference a lie, now did I. I called his "quality" reference a lie, and it is. America's testing protocols pale in comparison to most of the rest of the world's protocols.
That is why Trump got us banned from Europe.
Trump says we test too much and that was not a joke because he has said it MANY times. Trump could lead by example, but he refuses. Trump thinks, apparently, that this pandemic is much to do about nothing - based on his words and actions.
If governors can mandate masks, so can the president. He as already identified it as a national health emergency which gives him lots of powers.
I blame Trump and others like him because they don't discourage (and for the most part encourage) people to gather at beaches and bars. Trump and his policies or lack of others is directly responsible for thousands of covid deaths.
If Trump said wear a mask, my step-son would wear one. Instead, he challenges stores own mandatory mask policies by ignoring their signs and walking in assaulting other people who may be close to him with his stupidity. He even ignored the store attendant when she told him to put on a mask or get out. He finally left. He is a typical Trump supporter."If governors can mandate masks, so can the president."
Copying the President now? Point to the law, please, that gives the President powers that only governors have?
"I cannot believe you would agree that it is 99% harmless - that is simply absurd."
How many people have tested positive in the past month and how many of those tested in that period have died? You're continuing to include the tens of thousands that were only found to be infected because they were already on death's doorstep. You also continue to ignore the millions of people that were infected and "cured" themselves with never a symptom at all. So yes, it is probably close to being 1% of those that get infected that die.Wilderness: Trump could declare the virus as a national emergency and then issue an executive order that everybody should wear masks. If that is not enough, congress could pass a bill based on his executive order.
Instead,Trump is missing in action when it comes to lead this country out of the pandemic. He is laser focused on his re-election while playing to his base about protecting confederate statues.
He never was a leader. He is a salesman and deal maker who takes actions to make himself look better than his opponents by putting them down while rising himself above them.The first part is done, Trump has already issued a coronavirus national emergency - one of the very few positive things he has done as president.
He is not a very good deal-maker either.
7/5/2020
"CNN - The gulf between reality and President Donald Trump's delusional vision of a waning coronavirus threat was on full display this weekend, as cases soared in key hotspots while he delivered speeches at Mount Rushmore and at the White House, with little physical distancing and few masks, directly contradicting the advice from his public health experts.
Playing with fire at a time when experts say the spread of the virus appears to be spiraling out of control, Trump continued gaslighting Americans about the threat to their health during a Fourth of July speech from the South Lawn of the White House, where he minimized the dangers of Covid-19 with a baseless statement that 99% of coronavirus cases are "harmless," a claim his Food and Drug Administration chief could not back up Sunday morning."
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/06/politics … index.htmlTRUMP keeps lying and his supporters want to keep voting for him in spite of that.
7/9/2020
Testing goes up and cases and hospitalizations go up even more proving Trump is lying when he says "Cases, Cases, Cases! If we didn't test so much and so successfully, we would have very few cases," Trump tweeted on Saturday." - How dumb can a person be to say that? The actual number of cases don't change but because you put your head in the sand, you don't know what is going to bite you in the ass7/10/2020
The claim that the White House is running a disinformation campaign about coronavirus is demonstrably true.
https://www.cnn.com/videos/health/2020/ … ay-vpx.cnnIf Trump is telling the truth about "having a handle" on the pandemic, then why are positivity rates shooting up everywhere in America? And it isn't because we are doing the right thing and testing more. Can you imagine?? Actually thinking that cutting testing in half would reduce people catching coronavirus by half?, LOL.
https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/cor … 9bf5b9ff00All the experts and scientist are still learning about the virus, but our glorious leader knows more about the virus than all of them put together. I'm so sick of this guy and his dog and pony shows. He even lies about his lies.
Don't you just love this KARMA - 1 in 6 Mississippi state legislatures are now sick with Covid after following Trump's guidance of not wearing a mask. LOLOLOLOLOL
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/10/us/missi … index.html
Moving away from coronavirus for a moment but still staying on the topic of Trump lies:
Speaking for Trump, his press spokesman said:
""Today, President Donald J. Trump signed an Executive Grant of Clemency commuting the unjust sentence of Roger Stone, Jr. Roger Stone is a victim of the Russia Hoax that the Left and its allies in the media perpetuated for years in an attempt to undermine the Trump Presidency." - THOSE ARE LIES
-- 1) The investigation was real and justified. 2) It was started by Republicans.
"There was never any collusion between the Trump Campaign, or the Trump Administration, with Russia. Such collusion was never anything other than a fantasy of partisans unable to accept the result of the 2016 election. The collusion delusion spawned endless and farcical investigations, conducted at great taxpayer expense, looking for evidence that did not exist." - More LIES
-- 1) The Mueller report showed lots of collusion, including with Stone; just no PROVABLE IN A COURT OF LAW conspiracy (big difference). 2) It had nothing to do with the 2016 election since the investigation was started by REPUBLICANS
""As it became clear that these witch hunts would never bear fruit, the Special Counsel's Office resorted to process-based charges leveled at high-profile people in an attempt to manufacture the false impression of criminality lurking below the surface. These charges were the product of recklessness borne of frustration and malice." - ANOTHER LIE
-- NOBODY but Trump and his supporters believe Mueller was anything less than honest and ethical
""This is why the out-of-control Mueller prosecutors, desperate for splashy headlines to compensate for a failed investigation, set their sights on Mr. Stone." - STILL MORE LIES
-- ONLY Trump and his supporters made splashy headlines. At most, Mueller made one.
This FACT-BASED article details more LIES by Trump's spokesman.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/10/politics … index.htmlThe headline is "You Can't Fight Coronavirus with Lies" - but Trump tries very hard.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/10/world/me … index.html7/12/2020
I'll let this doctor respond to Trump's obvious lie about "most cases automatically get better"
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/202 … kn-vpx.cnnSeems like neither you nor your doctor understand what the word "most" means. A dictionary should help you there, but I will point out that "most" patients DO get better without any intervention from the medical field at all. The human body is designed by millions of years of evolution to operate that way.
Choosing the small minority of bad cases that do NOT "get well" without help, and declaring Trump's statement to be a lie because there ARE some that do not, is again beneath you. Those are the minority of cases, leaving his statement quite true.Wilderness: Why are there still more active cases than recovered cases? I would not call that a small minority. As a matter of fact it is a majority. As a matter of fact most is a relative term. That's Trump speak. He never speaks in specific terms.
The jury is still out on whether actually DO get better - meaning returning to the way they were before contracting the disease. We are now finding out that even with people who don't go to the hospital, there is lasting and sometimes permanent damage. That is not "automatically" getting better.
You are also being disingenuous by agree with Trump that "because most people automatically get better" that you believe Covid-19 is a walk-in-the-park and not to be worried about. THAT is the message Trump is sending.
Trump just opened up a new war on minimizing the deadly pandemic in a failed attempt to get votes.
(CNN)Instead of focusing on the out-of-control coronavirus disaster in Florida and other early opening states, the White House is trying to destroy the reputation of one of America's most respected public servants, Dr. Anthony Fauci, for telling the truth about how bad things are getting."The jury is still out on whether actually DO get better..."
Even if true (and there is zero indication that "most" people suffer permanent damage), you are still lying when you call Trumps words a lie.
"You are also being disingenuous by agree with Trump that "because most people automatically get better" that you believe Covid-19 is a walk-in-the-park and not to be worried about. "
No, no - you don't get to put words in my mouth - a lie by any definition - for I never said anything about the topic at all. Only that you lied when you claimed Trumps words were not true.
The only lies here are yours, for Trump is correct, you know he is correct, and even your desperate manipulation of his words into what they are not does not change that.What does "automatically" mean to you. To mean, it means "without intervention of any sort". Poof - you are better. Well that is not the case. People have to do many things to get over being sick. HIS LIE is two-fold.
People do not "automatically" get better from most diseases - you should no better. When you get sick, do you "automatically" get better the next day, or the day after? Or do you suffer for a period of time taking this medicine or that or go see a doctor?
The other is by saying that he is minimizing a deadly disease.
This person didn't "automatically" get better and now many other lives are destroyed.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/13/us/arizo … index.htmlLOLOLOLOL
Anyone that thinks Trumps "automatically" means anything but "without medical intervention such as hospitalization, antibiotics or other aid beyond what people self-administer" is a fool.
You are not a fool; therefore you don't think that but are desperately trying to spin Trumps words (again) in order to get a reader to believe what is not true - in other words you are once more lying about what Trump said.
(Does it not bother you to be continually called on your untruths, falsehoods, exaggerations and spin? Do you not care that your own posts position you much higher than Trump himself on the "I'm lying!" pole?)Wilderness: The truth is Trump lies about the virus.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/all-t … li=BBnb7KzIf I were actually telling "untruths, falsehoods, exaggerations and spin", then I would be bothered. Problem is - I am not, Trump is.
We all know what Trump meant by "automatically" even if you don't. It simply isn't true people "automatically" get over ANY disease, let alone a killer like Covid.
If I said that you "automatically" get over a cold - I would be lying.
If I said that you "automatically" get over the flu - I would be lying.
If I said that you "automatically" get over your head being bashed in with a baseball bat - I would be lying.
If Trump says that you "automatically" get over coronavirus - He would be lying.
The definition of "automatically" does not fit what Trump said.
(with reference to a device or process) by itself with little or no direct human control."the kettle automatically switched off when it boiled"
2.without conscious thought or attention; spontaneously.
"although I used my best Italian, the receptionists automatically replied in English"
No matter how much you want to believe Trump is a truth-teller, people with Covid do not spontaneously heal - period. He lied.Yep! "without conscious thought or attention". You go home because you are feeling punky and go to bed. No attention needed, just a reaction to how you feel...and your body "automatically" heals itself without any outside help. Or, because you feel zero effects from having the disease, you do absolutely nothing...and your body "automatically" heals.
Trump is right - most cases "automatically" heal themselves. Even hospital cases, right up to the need for a ventilator, heal without help, for the hospital provides nothing but nutrition and a bed. You stretched it, not Trump.
Trump's LIES never end. From a Monday, 7/13/2020 conversation with a reporter.
"Reporter: President Trump, you've said many times that the number of coronavirus cases is going up because testing is increasing.
Trump: That's right.
Reporter: Do you acknowledge that it's going up for other reasons too; for example, that it's actually spreading? And what are you going to do to stop the spread?
Trump: Well, you know that we have one of the lowest mortality rates anywhere. If you know, [former Vice President Joe] Biden and [former President Barack] Obama stopped their testing; they just stopped it. You probably know that. I'm sure you don't want to report it. But they stopped testing. Right in the middle, they just went, "No more testing," and on a much lesser problem than the problem that we have, obviously with respect to -- this is the worst thing that's happened since probably 1917. This is a very bad -- all over the world. It's 188 countries right now.
But, no, we are -- we test more than anybody, by far.
And when you test, you create cases. So we've created cases. I can tell you some countries, they test when somebody walks into a hospital sick or walks into maybe a doctor's office, but usually a hospital. That's the testing they do, so they don't have cases, whereas we do -- we have all of these cases. So, you know, it's a double-edged sword."
[i]The Bolded items are lies and the Italicized items are deceptions.
1. The United States ranks seventh highest[/] in the world in mortality.
2. The CDC took 10 days to develop a swine flu test and quickly distributed them across the country. It took the Trump administration over a month to develop a Covid test and it still isn't available everywhere 5 months later
3.The swine flu killed 12,000 Americans death while "totally harmless" Covid has killed 135,000 and counting!
4. The Obama administration [b]did not stop testing until the crisis was over.
5. It might surprise Trump and his followers that testing for Covid create an infection (unless of course the virus is on the testing device). Covid exists in a person or doesn't, regardless of whether they were tested for it. Duh.
6. While it is true the US does more testing than any other country, it is also true that it is more populous than most other countries. Therefore, this is deceptive. The correct metric is per capita testing and America stacks up pretty poorly.Odd - I count 48 nations with a higher mortality rate from Covid-19 than the US. It comes in at #49 according to Johns Hopkins.
Are you using fatalities per capita population as a mortality rate rather than the proper metric of fatalities per infection case? That would be #9 (not 8) but of course it is quite...ah...[/i]deceptive[/i], I believe the term is.
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality
I would take exception to the quaint that the Trump administration - a group of politicians - found a test as well. It came from the CDC and other entities that can in no way be considered part of ANY administration. A little deceptive here, aren't you?
Hard to believe you can twist Trump's meaning of testing creates cases the way you do - it is quite obvious that he refers to the number of cases (which testing certainly increases) rather than obvious infections. But I guess you can twist anything if you try hard enough.
Finally, where is that test not available? To the 10 families living in the depth of Hell's Canyon, accessible only by boat?You best check again. 1. UK, 2. Mexico, 3. Iran, 4. Indonesia, 5. Egypt, 6.Iraq, 7. U.S., 8. Brazil. https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality
Even with your number, Trump LIED.
Don't change your MO, Wilderness. You have blamed anything that went wrong with any part of Obama's administration on Obama so many times I can't count them. I will take the same prerogative. In any case, Trump has so much more control over his CDC than Obama chose to exercise over his, that part of your argument fails as well.
How am I twisting the word "creates". That is exactly what Trump meant and he has said it many different ways before that. He actually thinks testing causes coronavirus. Obviously, you don't listen to him much do you.
Testing DOES NOT increase the number of cases of people who have the virus. Using Trump's own math, if you cut the number of tests by half, the number of people with the virus is cut in half as well - he said something very similar to that.
In any case, you still have it wrong because the number of hospitalizations are increasing dramatically as well which is independent of testing.
Not getting a test - is this good enough for you? "Mulvaney described his family's efforts to get tested for the coronavirus, noting that they had to wait up to a week to receive his son's results, while being told his daughter didn't meet the criteria for receiving a test, even though she was planning on visiting her grandparents."
Why does Mulvaney think testing is in such horrible shape in America????
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol … 429248002/Still trying to use deaths per population capita as a mortality rate. You know better; such efforts only make a lie, never truth. Look at the link I gave.
How is it that the CDC is just that; the CDC...until it can be used to claim TRUMP LIES? Suddenly under Trump it is part of his administration, unlike at all times in the past.
You aren't smart enough to understand what Trump meant by "creates"? I don't believe that; you understand it perfectly, just want it to have meant something it did not.
I have no idea why Mulvaney had such a problem; I've been tested twice (in two weeks) in Idaho - a state with a very low testing rate. But can't see it matters WHAT Mulvaney says - whether true or not - it still has nothing to do with claims that there are areas where it is impossible to get tested. I'm still waiting to hear where those areas are. Maybe one of the far south Florida Keys? A tiny island off Hawaii? An Inuit village above the Arctic Circle?Why? Because Trump has politicized the CDC in his administration. Obama did not. - Simple. Trump has politicized everything he has touched just like any dictator would.
For example - "Coronavirus hospital data will now be sent to Trump administration instead of CDC"
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/14/politics … index.html
You are flailing Wilderness as exemplified by ignoring and not giving a reason why hospitalization and positivity rates have been skyrocketing - OPPOSITE of what Trump claims.
If you don't like John Hopkins numbers, I can't do anything about that.Of course Obama did not politicize the CDC - he just revamped it, putting in his own choice of administrators. This has to the worst excuse for claiming what is not true I've seen yet.
You're the one not liking John Hopkins numbers, the numbers that plainly show we are #49 on the list rather than #7 for fatality rates. For the third time, fatality rate does not include the number of people in the country; it is the number of deaths divided by the number of cases. As John Hopkins shows.
Is that location where testing cannot be found in Atqasuk, AK (population 233 and reachable only by air) maybe? You've not supported the claim that there are places where it cannot be found yet...I don't know what you are looking at Wilderness. I even clicked on your link and it brought up the same thing I looked at where the chart clearly shows the US in 7th place when you divide deaths by cases.. As to deaths per 100,000 population, we are the second highest, btw.
If you would listen to real news instead of conservative talk shows, you would find there are still places where it is very hard to get a test if you want one (you know, that lie Trump put out back in March or April?)
https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing … ovid-testsReally? I scroll down a bit and find a data list labeled "Cases and mortality by country". Clicking the fourth column header, "CASE-FATALITY" sorts the data by that column. When that is done I count 47 countries with a higher number of deaths per case than the US has.
On the other hand, if I click the final column header, labeled "DEATHS/100K POP" I find that the US is in ninth position, not second.
As a check that I understand what is being said, I divide the 433 deaths in Yemen by the 1526 cases in Yemen and sure enough they have a 28.4% fatality rate. Doing so for the US produces the 3.9% listed and there are 47 other countries between these two numbers.The chart I am using considers the 20 nations who are "currently the most effected", a much more relevant subset in my opinion.
You are referring to a table that contains many countries who have beat back the virus. Nevertheless, as I said earlier, even your table proves Trump lied.I'm sure it IS more relevant; if you can find a set of data that shows TRUMP LIED, even if it is false to fact, it is relevant. Cherry picking certain countries to give a pre-determined result hardly makes it "relevant", and neither does an assumption that other countries have "beat back the virus" for there isn't a single country in the world that has done that. We ALL continue to show cases, and deaths, for it has not been "beaten back" at all. Just slowed in some areas...while other areas see no decrease at all.
I don't see that being #48 in the world, given our population density in most of the country, shows he lied. But I do understand where you will take it as proof, because that is what you want to see.Look back at what Trump said. Even your table proves he lied.
There are now countries having no new cases some days. Most of Europe is doing as well as the New England states, if not better. It is only a few nations where the virus is exploding with America leading the pack - thanks to Trump.
All the President can offer in the face of a national emergency is self-pity, incoherence and indifference (and Lies, Distortions, and Deceptions)
Trump offers denial and delusion as pandemic crisis overtakes his presidency
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/15/politics … index.html
He should resign has his niece suggests. A niece who is yet another of many, many, many mental health professionals and experts who say Trump is mentally unfit to be president.
Fortunately, it looks almost certain (much, much more so than with Clinton at this time) that Biden is going to beat and maybe rout Trump in November and this pain can be over for America.We must keep speaking the truth about Trump, the disaster.
Headline "As Trump refuses to lead, America tries to save itself"
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/16/politics … index.html
"(CNN)President Donald Trump isn't leading America much as its pandemic worsens. But that's not stopping Walmart -- along with Kroger, Kohl's, and city and state leaders and officials -- from making the tough decisions that the President has shirked.
Given Trump's approach, if the country is to exit the building disaster without many more thousands dead, it will fall to governors, mayors, college presidents and school principals, teachers and grocery store managers to execute plans balancing public health with the need for life to go on."Do you think Trump has the authority to demand, or the power to enforce, mask usage in every WalMart in the country? Because I sure don't.
He certainly thinks he does. But, in a health national emergency, a president has enormous powers.
Isn't this what any good dictator does - hide and twist the data?
https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/cor … 222f25e0d7
Why doesn't Trump want you to know about:
1. the current inpatient and intensive care unit bed occupancy
2. Health care worker staffing
3. Personal protective equipment supply status and availability?
What is he trying to hide or distort?I think it is a way he protects himself from Criticism. If he controls the data then people can't criticize him. It's another way of him building a protective barrier against his frail ego and self-esteem.
I'm starting to read Mary Trump's book and that is what I'm finding, deep down inside, he feels very inferior.We just got our copy, one out of 950,000 sold this week, this evening. My wife will read it first.
I heard that Trump put the data he took down back after everybody complained.
We now know that 25% of Americans have no discerning brain. That was the percentage of people who believe Donald Trump more than they believe Dr. Fauci.about coronavirus related topics.
Simply amazing, don't you think?How is the view from your pedestal My Esoteric? Do you understand that is the view you present?
"25% of Americans have no discerning brain." Are you really comfortable with that statement?
GAYep. If people had a discerning brain, they would believe Fauci and not Trump. Simple, irrefutable logic.
Just to be clear: by discerning brain, I mean a brain that can discern the difference between truth and fiction.
That isn't any better Scott. Your original statement still comes as anyone that doesn't agree with you doesn't have a "discerning brain."
GANo, it doesn't say that at all and you know it. Now, had the poll results said that only 25% of the people believe Fauci and 65% believe Trump, then you would be correct. But that wasn't the outcome, was it now. So, it is not MY opinion, it is the widespread opinion of most people in America - so please don't pin this on me.
Falsely believing that presenting false information about the pandemic at the newly revived "daily briefings", sans experts, Trump continues to lie, deflect, distract, and mislead the public and his base.
7/24/2020
Trying to make America believe something that is not true - "(CNN) President Donald Trump says the country is doing great in a pandemic that just infected its four millionth US victim and is killing 1,000 people a day."
Trump is trying to take credit for doing the obvious - "claimed he was setting an "example" after deciding to cancel Republican convention events in Covid-battered Florida." - (He shouldn't have set it up in the first place)
As a general statement this is simply a lie - it is not safe " he nevertheless insisted that it was perfectly safe for children to go back to school full time in a few weeks." - (While it may be true in places like New York and other states with very low rates of transmission, it is patently false in most of America at this point in time. The reason the northeast states can do in-person classes is because they ignored Trump's call to open the economy.
Again, trying to take credit for something he didn't do - ""The Northeast has become very clean. The country is in very good shape other than if you look south and west, some problems that'll all work out," the President said." - The reason they are in good shape is that they ignored Trump and reopened safely. The states that followed Trump are the ones in deep trouble.
False Equivalency - "Trump also complained that a dozen European countries and Taiwan and South Korea were sending their kids back to class and America wasn't, ignoring the fact that those places had competent central governments that beat back the virus properly. "How can the latest resurgence in Coronavirus cases and deaths NOT BE Trump's fault? It absolutely IS his fault.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/27/politics … index.htmlYou're absolutely right. It was Trump that, at gunpoint, forced all those people to gather in huge demonstrations and riots.
It was Trump that forcibly gathered together the beachgoers and would not allow them masks.
It was Trump that forced people into bars, again disallowing the use of face masks.
It is Trump that is suing governors and mayors for backing off the opening of businesses.
You cannot possibly how silly it sounds to hear you say that Trump is forcing people all over the country to ignore precautions. People DO have minds and WILL do what they wish, you know.Actually, Wilderness, if you took the time to look you would find very little of the new cases come from many protesters and relatively few rioters. The VAST majority came from governors, at Trump's urging, opening up their economies way too soon, before their states had crushed the virus like New York, Connecticut, and other northeast states did.
IF you would have looked, you would have found reports like this from Reuters -
"Public health experts say there has yet to be conclusive evidence of large-scale spread from these events. “The protests were outdoors in a very large area,” said Dr. Marybeth Sexton, assistant professor of infectious diseases at Emory University School of Medicine. Sexton noted “a lot of attempts at masking, distancing, hand-sanitizing” during the protests that also helped prevent transmission.
Public health experts have said that bar and restaurant openings in regions including U.S. states like Texas and Florida, Spain and South Korea have contributed to outbreaks of the virus.
“The equation for major prevention of this virus is really pretty simple: it’s masks, and avoid congregating indoors and ... staying away from people if you’re sick or if you’ve been in contact with somebody who’s sick,” said Dr. Jared Baeten, Vice Dean of the School of Public Health at University of Washington, who called some of the bar and restaurant openings an “unmitigated disaster.”"
TELL ME - who wanted the bars open??? Trump, that's who!
Who didn't create a national plan to combat the virus and test for it? Trump didn't!
Who refused to wear a mask and ridiculed people who did and would not provide leadership in wearing masks? Trump, that's who (until he figured out he was losing at the polls because of that stance)
If Trump hasn't sued governors and mayors for backing off the reopening, give him time, he probably will.
Why is Trump using his bully pulpit to ENCOURAGE people to do the wrong thing. In the case of Trump supporter, that is tantamount to "forcing them". Rabid Trump supporters have shown themselves to not really have a mind of their own, they just follow Trump's lead..
7/28/2020
AMAZING - Trump is still trying to kill people (only a few though) by continuing to push the ineffective hydroxychloroquine.
"By Monday evening, Trump had taken the hydroxychloroquine message public, retweeting a series of videos that were later removed by Twitter for containing false and misleading information about mask-wearing and the unproven drug.
Fauci said on ABC he agrees with the Food and Drug Administration that "the overwhelming prevailing clinical trials that have looked at the efficacy of hydroxychloroquine have indicated that it is not effective in coronavirus disease.""7/30/2020
Trump keeps at it with the lies, misdirections, misleading, and false barrage of statements.
With 150,000 dead, many his fault, and hundreds of thousands to go, he keeps promoting a potentially deadly non-cure. He promotes a devil-worshiping doctor who believes alien DNA are in our vaccines, and people had sex with demons. A Republican congressman blames his mask, lololol, for catching Covid. His VP meets with a bunch of quack doctors to believe the FDA, Fauci, and a host of peer-reviewed studies are wrong about the ineffectiveness of hydroxychloroquine.
Oh yeah, he keeps lying about mail-in voting being dangerous (when there is zere evidence that it is) and the election should be delayed. Of course he wouldn't be saying that if he were ahead in the polls.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/30/politics … index.html8/3/2020
Once again playing frequent rounds of golf on weekends, something he hated Obama doing, hypocritically complaining about it all of the time, Trump issues another False statement (at least to timing) "Trump's upbeat messaging on Friday on the virus: "We'll get rid of it, we'll beat it, and it will be soon."
Why is it False? We will never get rid of it, just like we will never get rid of the flu. It will NOT be soon, either. Assuming a vaccine is developed early next year, the anti-vaxers (or simply stupid people) will not get vaccinated. It will take years to build up to herd immunity, if we ever do.
Remember when Trump kept saying falsely that Covid posed no threat to Americans (in fact he is still saying such lies)? Well, now this "no threat" has killed more than 158,000 of us - you or a loved one could be next.Your opinions do not make Trump a liar any more than your spin and other lies do.
A vaccine WILL relegate the COVID virus to the status of just another flu bug that we have to live with; in this manner it WILL disappear even though it is technically still with us, just as diphtheria, tuberculosis and polio is. And it won't matter one whit what the anti-vaxers do; if they choose to take the risk that is on them, not the rest of the country.How shallow of you, you rarely think through what you write.. Even IF a vaccine relegates Covid to flu status, since it is two to four times more deadly than the flu, you just declared yourself fine with 100,000 people dying from Covid annually in America.
What "opinion"?? That Covid will never go away? That is the expert opinion of anybody familiar with infectious diseases. It is your baseless opinion that it will go away.
That it will "go away soon". Again, this is what the real experts say and not your baseless opinion that it will.
That he plays many rounds of golf (more than any other president and many of them combined). That is not an opinion but a fact.
That he lambasted Obama for playing much less golf than he does? That is also a well documented fact.
To what depths of unreasonableness will you go to defend Trump when he is obviously wrong - it is absolutely amazing.
Thank god he will be gone in January so that the nation can finally start to heal and he can be prosecuted and thrown in jail for the rest of his life.Here is a typical callous, yet conservative response to mass death - IT IS WHAT IT IS. Trump said this about 150,000 dead from Covid, many of them his fault, and what he will probably say when it passes 1,000,000!!
President Trump said the coronavirus death toll “is what it is” during an interview with “Axios on HBO” broadcast late Monday.
The president told Axios’s Jonathan Swan that the COVID-19 pandemic is “under control as much as you can control it” in the U.S.
“They are dying, that's true. And you have — it is what it is,” Trump said. “But that doesn't mean we aren't doing everything we can (YES IT DOES). It's under control as much as you can control it (AND THAT IS A LIE). This is a horrible plague. (This is True)”"Even IF a vaccine relegates Covid to flu status, since it is two to four times more deadly than the flu, you just declared yourself fine with 100,000 people dying from Covid annually in America."
Your funny arithmetic doesn't work, at least for me. If we get a vaccine, and the number of cases decrease by 96%, then the death toll cannot possible be 100,000 per year. But I'm sure you realize that, even as you typed the words.
"What "opinion"??"
While technically true, that it will be relegated to the same status as other diseases (I gave a partial list) that are, for all intents and purposes, "gone" from the US.
"That he plays many rounds of golf (more than any other president and many of them combined). That is not an opinion but a fact."
And has zero to do with anything. Just another rant from one that produces little BUT rants.
"To what depths of unreasonableness will you go to defend Trump when he is obviously wrong - it is absolutely amazing."
The REAL question is when you will cease your efforts, quit spinning, exaggerating and twisting his words to give the impression he is lying when it is YOU that is producing the lies? Can you give a date?
LOL What will you do when he is re-elected? Leave the country, or just threaten to? What will you do when he is NOT prosecuted for your faux "crimes"? Scream about it for another 10 years?Do the math, Wilderness. An average of 35,000 people die from the flu annually. At three times more deadly, that means Covid will kill 100,000, or thereabouts, annually. It really is easy math.
I don't need to "quit spinning, exaggerating and twisting his words to give the impression he is lying" because any normal person knows he is lying. It is not rocket science to figure that out.
Let's start with a simple one. He LIED about where his father was born - at least three times!! Once in his Art book (New Jersey) and twice in the last year or so when he lied that this father was born in Germany. If he lies about such a simple and easily disproven thing, why wouldn't wouldn't he lie about everything else???
How is that "quit spinning, exaggerating and twisting his words to give the impression he is lying"??? He said it and he lied about it - unless you truly believe dear old dad was born in New York, New Jersey, and Germany. I guess with Trump, anything is believable to you.Also, tell me WHY America is doing so much WORSE than the rest of the world? Why are most other nations have very low positivity rates while the US, as a whole, is so much higher 8.2% in America vs between .7% to 1.7% in Europe)?
Why can any European get a 90-minute rapid test and only the White House can get one in America?
What is wrong with America's (not states) response????
FINALLY, the states have learned that America can not do it, so they are joining together and by-passing the useless, incompetent Federal presidency and combining there resources to do half as effectively as the federal gov't could do, if it had the balls, with the resources it has.
150,000 dead - and all Trump can say, "it is what it is" and then lied that he did all he could do.I watched this interview, Trump was PATHETIC!
"flare about the President's hopes for reelection, if his campaign and White House staff programed to fulfill his yearning for praise are prepared to recognize it.
Trump came across as ill-prepared, narcissistic and far from in control of the coronavirus pandemic. It was a far cry from the image of courageous leadership and energetic, unstinting commitment on behalf of Americans that his aides spend every day trying to sketch.
It is hard to remember an interview in which a sitting President was more unsparingly exposed or seemed so unequal to the magnitude of a crisis that is threatening the American people and is nowhere near ending."
His incompetence and narcissism is killing thousands.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/05/politics … index.html
8/3/2020
First Trump slams Dr. Fauci for telling the truth about Covid and now he does the same thing with Dr. Birx for telling the truth about Covid while Trump lies.
"President Donald Trump criticized Dr. Deborah Birx in a Monday tweet after she warned the pandemic is "extraordinarily widespread" in the US.
While Trump and other top White House officials have publicly attacked Dr. Anthony Fauci, the tweet marked the first time Birx, the coordinator of the White House coronavirus task force, publicly drew Trump's ire.
The dust-up comes as the country continues to be ravaged by coronavirus, with more than 158,000 US citizens dead and more than 4 million cases. Trump has consistently lied and misled mostly in attempts to downplay concerns about the virus as he presses for schools and businesses to reopen."The latest coronavirus related Trump Lie -
8/8/2020
"Washington (CNN)President Donald Trump turned a hastily scheduled Friday night "news conference" at his New Jersey golf club into a surreal kind of campaign rally -- uttering the usual boasts and false claims, except with polo-clad club members standing at the back of the room.
Trump also introduced a new, wildly inaccurate claim: an allegation that Democrats are cheating in the election via their negotiations with Republicans over a new coronavirus relief bill.
Democrats and the election
After talking about what he said was the risk of foreign countries using mail-in ballots to cheat in the election -- which, as usual, he vastly overstated -- Trump accused the Democrats of doing their own election cheating."
https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/07/politics … index.htmlMore Trump Lies
The coronavirus is "disappearing" (It is plainly not; the US had reported more than 42,000 new cases on Friday before Trump began his news conference)
Prescription drug prices declined last year for the first time in 51 years (The decline, of 0.7%, happened two years ago; by the same measure, prices rose 3% last year)
More testing leads to more cases (Testing doesn't create cases, merely shows them, and tests are a pandemic-fighting tool that should help reduce cases) - why hasn't Trump banned all WH testing then?
Foreign countries can easily forge mail-in ballots (Experts say this is simply not true because of various ballot security measures)
China is paying the cost of his tariffs on imported Chinese products (Study after study has shown Americans pay the tariffs)
China was having its worst year economically in 67 years prior to the pandemic (Its 2019 growth was the lowest in 29 years)
Trump has always been strongly in favor of protecting pre-existing conditions (He has repeatedly backed Republican bills that would have significantly weakened those protections in Obamacare)"More testing leads to more cases"
Why is that of the 320 million people in the country you are the only that can't figure out that more testing finds more cases? You are the only one that can't figure out that that is what was meant - that no one, including Trump, thinks a nasal swab causes the disease?You are twisting words again Wilderness. Trump is NOT saying "more testing finds more cases" (which indeed it does, that is the purpose of large scale testing). Instead, he is saying "More testing leads to more cases" and that is obviously not true - the same number of cases are there whether you test for them or not.
To make it clearer, he turns the statement around on occasion saying something like "if you didn't test so much, you would have less cases." That is NOT the same thing as saying "if you didn't test so much, you would find less cases" - he didn't add that word, after many, many opportunities to clarify, why do you have to add it for him in order to defend a very stupid statement??
To drive home the point, he has said he told his administration to do less testing. Why would he say that if he didn't think that would reduce the number of cases of coronavirus out there? Also, Why doesn't he want [i[find[/i] as many cases as possible in order to get control over the spread of the virus?
One of Trump's solutions to Covid relief presents a false choice to states, mainly Red States. You see, his so-called $400 add-on to unemployment comes with a catch which means most people won't receive the necessary benefit (which comes out of FEMA emergency funds, I am told).
It seems that for a person to receive it, their State must opt-in (presumably this keeps it constitutional) and agree to pay $100 of the benefit. IF they do, only then will the federal gov't add another $300.
Think about it. The richest states, the one's more able to afford such a tax, are the Blue states. The Red States are more or less bankrupt by now, so there is a good chance none of their citizens will receive the aid; even IF the Republican governors are empathetic enough to let there people get the aid in the first place
Leave it to Trump to brag about something so problematic.
Of his other EOs, some MIGHT pass constitutional muster.
The student loan deferment (good idea).
The eviction moratorium (good idea but may only apply to federal rental programs such as Section 8)
The payroll tax "forgiveness?" is likely unconstitutional and a very bad idea that does more harm than good.
It seems Trump can't stand to be told the TRUTH by reporters and scurries off-stage again when fact checked.
"Washington (CNN)President Donald Trump abruptly ended a Saturday news conference after a reporter challenged him on a lie about veterans health care he has told more than 150 times.
Trump, speaking at his Bedminster, New Jersey, golf club, had claimed again that he is the one who got the Veterans Choice program passed -- adding, "They've been trying to get that passed for decades and decades and decades and no president's ever been able to do it, and we got it done."
In fact, former President Barack Obama signed the Choice program into law in 2014. The law, which allowed eligible veterans to be covered by the government for care provided by doctors outside the VA system, was a bipartisan initiative spearheaded by two senators Trump has repeatedly criticized, Bernie Sanders of Vermont and the late John McCain of Arizona.
What Trump signed was a 2018 law, the VA MISSION Act, that modified and expanded the eligibility criteria from the Choice program. Rather than tout that bill, Trump has claimed over and over that he created Veterans Choice itself -- after others had failed for "50 years.""Because your opinion is that that red states will not help their people means Trump lied? How quaint!
My state, Idaho, advertised that the medicaid expansion a couple of years ago was a great deal because the cost to the state would be zero after the federal funds were calculated into the mix, and the benefit to the state coffers of the money coming into people's pockets would more than overcome the state's cost of the program. People are not as stupid as you think, and your opinion is not the final word.Trump states the US is at war with covid19. What ever the stats maybe. More Americans have died from covid19 than all the Americans troops have died in all the wars that American have been in, since world war two. Wow, the US Self defense now, really sucks.
Can you imagine what Trump would do if this was a shooting "war"? Say Mexico invaded? He would just leave it to the states to deal with on their own.
"Because your opinion is that that red states will not help their people means Trump lied? " - You are stretching again to make a false point. It is interesting that you came to that conclusion. (Also, it is not my "opinion" that Red states do a worse job in helping their people than Blue states, that is simple observation. I live in one of those Red states as well and watch the people suffer.
Either you are lying or your state is lying IF it really said "Idaho, advertised that the medicaid expansion a couple of years ago was a great deal because the cost to the state would be zero after the federal funds were calculated into the mix". It would NEVER have been Zero.
There is a large group of Floridians who have ZERO health insurance because the Trump Republicans didn't expand Medicaid. The same was true in Idaho until your state finally implemented it in Jan 2020 and 53,000+ got insurance as a result. I know to you conservatives, that is a bad outcome, but to us liberals, it is simple humanity.I have only have two simple rules, be honest and don't harm.
I came to the conclusion that Trump is the greatest liar I ever met from personally being ripoff from him on a contracted sandcastle. He is probably the world best liar the world has ever experienced.
I don't care about the two choices of evil Americans pick from. Vote Green is the logical choice because the greatest threat to the US and the world is the natural environment, like in part, covid.
Certainly war is not the US greatest threat with the US being 4% of the world population and half of the world's war offence war budget.The ultimate humanity and leaders in human history has always been the collective consciousness of 80% of the people. The American people are most divided right now, than ever. Best results, lead yourself as a strong individual first and share.After reading Mary Trump's book, I found that Trump's Father was a student of Norman Vincent Peale's teachings and his book, The Power of Positive Thinking. Donald at age 6, met Peale and became one of his disciples and he still uses his teachings to cope with anything that he sees our hears that is negative about him or his family.
The problem is that he uses it to the point that is beyond reality. That's how he justifies lying and his happy talk about the virus getting better and going away very quickly. He does this at the expense of others, to the point if you don't agree with his positive bearings on things that are in reality negative, he will simply get rid of you because you are an obstruction to his positive thinking. That's part of Peale's teachings.
That's why he put Dr. Birx and Dr. Fauci out to pasture because science is an obstacle to his positive thinking. That's why he calls global warming a Chinese hoax. That's why he wants to send kids and teachers back to school regardless if their is a risk to their well-being. It is because he thinks his power of positive thinking will somehow prevail in the universe.
In his mind, I'm sure he believes that's how he became president is by Peale's philosophy on positive thinking. Whenever he talks now, I can see him using Peale's philosophy to whatever he confronts. That's why it does not surprise me that he wants his face on Mount Rushmore. It is not a crazy whim. He is dead serious about it. It's a very positive thing to do for him.
That's why he leaves press briefings right in the middle of the briefing when confronted with questions that could unveil his positive thinking that does not comport to reality. He sees them as obstacles that he will just ignore instead of confront them. So he leaves.
"Either you are lying or your state is lying IF it really said "Idaho, advertised that the medicaid expansion a couple of years ago was a great deal because the cost to the state would be zero after the federal funds were calculated into the mix". It would NEVER have been Zero."
Don't understand basic economics or how money travels, do you? Yes, Idaho advertised (a big talking point that was made over and over) that the total cost to the state, after collecting taxes on federal money given to people and the extra jobs it produced and more taxes, would not be zero but actually negative. And I have little doubt they were right - why do you think states fight so hard for federal projects (military bases come to mind) that bring money into the state. Hint: it's because it fills state coffers.
Just so no one forgets about Trump's lies, read this.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/12/politics … index.htmlHeadlines about Covid-19 which Trump falsely declares is "almost gone" and "not very dangerous".
"Universities in at least 15 states have reported outbreaks, some tied to large group gatherings."
"Following what the dean of students and head of public safety called "incredibly reckless behavior," 23 Syracuse University students were suspended Thursday after gathering on the campus quad at night."
"citing "a rapidly escalating increase" in the percentage of people testing positive for the virus, the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill announced that testing would be implemented for three residence halls."
"Meanwhile, at least 26 cases (and counting) of coronavirus in three states are being linked to the Sturgis Motorcycle Rally, which drew thousands of people to South Dakota earlier this month."
"At least 32 positive cases were linked to the August 7 (Maine) wedding, CNN has previously reported."
"IHME projected that if nothing about the nation's approach to prevention changed, death rates would dip in September but rise later in the fall, and the total would reach about 310,000 by December 1. (a trifling number according to some Trumpers)" - it now stands at 180,000, the third leading cause of death in America - but yet the virus is not dangerous according to Trump
FOR STATES WHO DID IT RIGHT
"New Jersey Gov. Phil Murphy tweeted Saturday afternoon that the state saw its lowest number of coronavirus-related hospitalizations since March 24."
"And New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo's office reported in a news release Saturday that the infection rate in the state stayed below 1% for 15 straight days, setting a new record low."
Trump says kids are immune - "In Florida, a 6-year-old girl became the youngest person in the state to die from coronavirus complications." There have been many more like her.
"On Friday the University of Miami reported four students in its Hecht Residential College had tested positive for Covid-19, "
"Towson University in Baltimore County, Maryland, is temporarily moving to online classes after 55 people tested positive for Covid-19 on campus over two days last week, "
"Since August 3, 372 students had tested positive, according to Notre Dame's online health dashboard."
Coronavirus is NOT going away anytime soon no matter how much Trump wishes for a miracle. In the meantime, he just keeps fiddling while he lets America burn to the ground around him.Trump is stupid enough get a lot of his information from Fox News pundits who know not what they speak, but the information sounds good to Trump so he broadcast it as fact.
I guess it's easy for him to do, given that he is not known for researching anything. That's one of the reasons conspiracy theories are so appealing to him.
8/23/2020
AMAZING!
Trump tears into his personally picked head of the FDA and accuses him of being part of the so-called "Deep State" in gov't that works against him. The reason? Because Dr. Hahn wants to do his job and make sure a Covid treatment is EFFECTIVE before releasing it to the public.
But Trump wants a miracle cure before Nov 3, so he obviously browbeat the FDA into giving this treatment emergency use authority before they were ready. It is NO COINCIDENCE that he attacks the FDA one day, just before his convention, and the very next day the FDA gives EUA.
What is the treatment? Fortunately, it isn't another potentially deadly hydroxychloroquine. This one is actually safe and has been used successfully for other coronavirus diseases. It has been talked about a lot lately and shows promise - Convalescent Plasma. This is where they take the plasma from someone who has recovered from Covid and inject it into people with covid hoping the antibodies it contains can help recovery.
It has been given to 60,000 patients so far in studies but none in randomized, placebo controlled one.
Apparently, an EUA was the works, but because of concerns raised by National Institutes of Health Director Dr. Francis Collins, National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases Director Dr. Anthony Fauci and Dr. H. Clifford Lane, NIAID deputy director that the data of its effectiveness with Covid, the EUA was put on hold for more study.
Enter Trump needing something to reverse his sagging poll numbers.
Now here is the problem - if they issue the EUA, which they just did, they will never know whether this treatment will actually work! Apparently, Trump has foreclosed this avenue by rushing something out before it was proven. At least no one will die this time because of it.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/23/health/c … index.htmlWow! Trump's at it again - this time he makes the following false claim (aka lie) about something Joe Biden said. Trump claims - "In his Thursday speech accepting the Republican presidential nomination, Trump said, "Instead of following the science, Joe Biden wants to inflict a painful shutdown on the entire country." He said Biden's supposed shutdown would cause health problems, like alcohol addiction and depression, and "economic devastation.", lol.
"Instead of following science"? Oh give me a break, Trump doesn't even believe in science if you listen to him carefully.
.
He falsely said that "Joe Biden WANTS to inflict a painful shutdown on America" - A LIE. Joe Biden WANTS no such thing. He actually said that IF HE HAD to, to save the nation, we would do it. A BIG difference.
In fact when pressed by a reporter, it went like this:
Muir (the reporter) pressed: "So if the scientists say, 'Shut it down?'"
Biden responded, "I would shut it down. I would listen to the scientists."
Wow!10/4/2020
Trump is in the hospital and if one reads between the lines, probably not in very good shape. But even in this critical time - HE LIES.
Does anybody NOT believe he is in there at his own hand? That his failure to lead by example or policy has landed him and Chris Christie in the hospital, shrunk the Senate where they might now be able to get a quorum either for the whole Senate or the Judiciary Committee?
The timeline clearly shows Trump went to a fundraiser for a meet and greet after he knew he was positive. If anybody dies as a result, he should be charged with what ever form of homicide that goes along with Gross Negligence and Reckless endagerment.
I said elsewhere, I hope Trump doesn't die from his self-inflicted would but instead has painful, near-death experience strong enough to make him see the gross errors of his ways. If so, then he can attempt to educate his Red Hat troopers to do the right thing and mask up at the appropriate times and social distance.What "LIES," and what "reading between the lines"?
I saw his hospital lap for his supporters, and I saw his tweet videos. What lie am I to draw from them?
GAI'd be more interested in his "meet and greet" AFTER testing positive. That surely sounds like a lie to me.
I can't seem to find a single reference to either a "meet and greet" OR the date and time Trump was notified he had the virus. Can you copy/paste them?
Or was it just another false statement?Now the Secret Service is saying Trump's Joy Ride which put their agents in danger "should never have happened".
Look to the link above for a report on the meeting.If you want to call a car ride around the hospital a "meet and greet fundraiser function" I guess you can. The rest of us recognize it as just another gross exaggeration and complete spin of something that never happened.
I think he's talking about the fundraiser. And the ride is another example of their disregard for the safety of others.
That was the topic, yes. A fundraiser that Trump attended after getting the news he was positive.
But the response concerning the ride is either a completely new topic (diversion as there is no proof that Trump knew at the fundraiser) or was given as evidence Trump knew he was positive at the fundraiser.
It is this kind of thing that makes it so difficult to garner real information from either people posting OR the media. Statements are made as factual without any proof at all and then an attempt is made to divert from the false statement already made.Another example of his outrageous disregard for American lives is his recent tweet telling his base not to worry about Covid, that it is no big deal. Specifically, "don't be afraid of Covid". This, after more than 7 million Americans have contracted and over 210,000 have died.
It's like telling a flyer not to be scared to fly even though 10 planes a day are crashing killing 1,000 people a day like Covid is. How stupid and careless can this man get??? I suppose we will find out.
His doctor let it slip that he was "72-hours into his diagnosis", which puts it before the Bedminister trip. The doctor was given three chances to recant that statement but wouldn't do it until a day or two later after Trump got him to say that he "misspoke".. No, the truth was the first four times he said it.
https://www.nj.com/news/2020/10/trumps- … spoke.htmlThe original comment was: "The timeline clearly shows Trump went to a fundraiser for a meet and greet after he knew he was positive."
There was absolutely nothing in your link about either a "meet and greet" function OR mention of when Trump found he was positive.
There is still nothing about such a function, or when Trump was told he was positive. Inescapable conclusion: after being called on the statement, and being unable to provide any proof of truth at all, the statement is deemed false. Just another lie designed to denigrate the President of the United States for personal satisfaction.It is still not clear when he was tested and when he got the results. There's been conflicting versions from WH. But what we know for sure is that they knew Hicks tested positive, that they were in close contact with her all week and still decided to go ahead with the fundraiser. A total disregard for others.
That sounds correct; I heard of Hicks's test a day or more prior to Trump's (not a week).
But the comment from Esoteric was that Trump knew he was positive and went to a fundraiser anyway. As proof he gave a link that mentions neither the date Trump knew nor any fundraiser. So far he has produced exactly nothing concerning either event; the only conclusion is that he is simply making it up, without having any evidence (outside of his imagination) that it is true.Actually the link DID provide the proof - the words of his doctor (which you disingenuously overlook)
LOL That's what you claimed before...but the link did no such thing. I ask again: copy and paste from the link (whichever one you choose) where it proves Trump knew he was positive and went to a meet and greet. You tried before; can you do better this time? This one says he went to the event on Thursday and announced his positive test Friday: what it does not say is that he knew it before he went to the event. And that was, after all, your claim: that he went knowing he was positive.
I'm sure you can read better than that; better than to simply make the words say what you want them to. Try again, with some copy and paste?
You clearly didn't read the post, you know where it said Dr. Connelly, as I said earlier, that Trump was 72-hours into his diagnosis - that would be Wednesday since you will probably not be able figure that out. You are right, the article didn't say Bedminster - this one does.
https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2020/10/ … -says.html
The reading between the lines and the lies are two separate issues.
It is easy to tell from what his doctor refused to admit or danced around or later admitted, that Trump had not (and I bet probably is not) doing very well.
I saw the videos to and saw a diminished man.
As to the lies:
- Signing blank pieces of paper pretending he is hard at work at the hospital - MASKLESS (exposing whoever took the pictures)
- Two pictures, 10 minutes apart, showing him hard at work but in two different rooms and wearing two different sets of clothes
- What Trump dictated to the doctor to say, or not to say were lies coming from Trump.
And then there was his self-serving drive around the hospital grounds which grounded those with him for 14-days and endangered their lives, according to one of his attending physicians who was sickened by the prank.On one point—"the blank pieces of paper:" the NPR reporter I heard talk about it said they appeared to be blank, but may not have been—the image was unclear so she couldn't be sure.
Did you find proof that they were blank? And, if the photographer was too far away for the images to clearly show the papers were blanks, could they also have been more than the social-distancing standard away?
I must be missing your point about the two pictures ten minutes apart. Is your implication that they were staged? Well yeahhh. . . consider how many 1000's of times you have seen similarly staged images? Did you always see them as nefarious lies or just the ones that involve Pres. Trump?
I don't doubt that Pres. Trump told the doctors what he wanted them to say. I also don't doubt that every politician in similar situations has done the same. Or that one spouse might tell the doctor what they wanted the other spouse to be told. Your question should be whether the doctors would violate their oath and damage their professional integrity by telling lies. I don't think the caliber of doctors at issue would. They may make you "read between the lines," but I doubt they would lie, even if the president told them to.
And your criticism of the hospital drive . . . geesh.
GAI saw close-ups of what he was writing on. Other than where the sharpie was in the middle of the paper, there were no other marks on the paper. He faked it, like normal.
The point you missed was he claimed to be hard at work in the hospital when he actually was not. He tried to use those photos to prove he was at work.
By the way, how did you take his "I feel better than I have felt in 20 years" comment. Sounds to me like he things Covid makes you feel great.I haven't looked into the "blank paper" claim. It is not a big deal to me. I see the point as being he was still on the job. You call it a lie, I call it a symbolic gesture.
I asked Google about this, and this composition seems to be the smoking gun' of the controversy:
Is this the close-up you mentioned seeing? I tried expanding and enhancing the image and could not get any resolution that made me feel comfortable it was a blank piece of paper, but maybe not being conclusive was enough for you. . *shrug
As for the "feel better" claim . . . read what you wish into it, I see it as no more than an "I feel fine." statement.
Coincidently, and since it is anecdotal it probably isn't worth the time to type it, I have had a few major hospital incidents where I felt the same way upon leaving the hospital.
Obviously, we are going to disagree, but I think you are interpreting things to fit your perceptions. It appears that what you are labeling as lies are just your different interpretations of events. You need facts to back your claims Scott, not just your perspectives.
As a side note; as I browsed through the various sources and articles looking for those blank page images, I noticed that most headlined the claims you make. Maybe a newsfeed is where you get your talking points?
GAThis is an article seen from a photographers point of view.
https://fstoppers.com/originals/does-ex … ica-522345
Personally to me it's a bit like: "So What!", you can make everything news..There are more important issues to talk about during election time then a perhaps faked photo. What about policies.... Nobody is talking about policies any more. Only superficial things and slogans.This isn't the one I saw initially, but contains one of the images presented in another article.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl … pital.html
Peter, I agree, regarding Trump, nobody is talking about policies. Why, because he doesn't have a program to talk about. On the other hand, all Biden talks about are his policies.
Why is it NOT "so what"? Because people must realize that that "blank paper" is what defines Trump. That staged picture, what is the term they use today, "amplifies" the fact that he is a fake, a con man and an extremely dangerous one at that.
The highly respected David Gergen, advisor to several Republican and Democratic presidents over the years, recently called out Trump for what he is - a madman, a term he has never used about a politician before. He is a very laid back, thoughtful man who stays away from hyperbole. His comment was not hyperbole
On another note - Trump just lied again by tweeting that Covid is less deadly than the seasonal flu. Now normal people know that 210,000 dead from Covid in eight months is 10 times more deadly that the flu, but what is scary, really scary, is that his Red Hat troops will believe him and continue to support him even though Trump talk like that has made it possible for 200,000 of those deaths to happen.
Bluntly stated, experts agree that had Trump taken up the policies needed to defeat Covid, like most of Europe and Asia did, our death toll would be in the tens of thousands and not where it is today.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/06/politics … index.html"Normal" people will also recognize that we give out millions of doses of flu vaccine each year, severely limiting the damage that particular virus can cause. Without that, the death toll would be much higher.
"Normal" people recognize that Trump cannot possibly be held responsible for the 200,000 deaths we've suffered in this country. Absolutely nothing he could have done would have prevented all deaths.
"Normal" people recognize that our death toll could not have been held to tens of thousands by anything Trump could have done (or by anything else, either, unless "tens of thousands" actually means TEN "tens of thousands". Predictions were 100,000-200,000...if the nation followed the mask/distancing/hand washing policies from an early date. We didn't follow them, Trump could not have enforced them and the result is going to be more deaths. Unless you would grant Trump the power of dictators to do whatever he wishes?""Normal" people recognize that our death toll could not have been held to tens of thousands by anything Trump could have done" - REALLY Wilderness? Then tell me why so many other nations did exactly that, after accounting for population scale.
Why did South Korea have only 2,900 deaths (after scaling) instead of the 210,000 deaths we have? What did they do right and Trump wrong?
Why did Germany have only 39,700 deaths (after scaling) instead of the 210,000 deaths we have? What did they do right and Trump wrong?
Why did New Zealand have only 1,800 deaths (after scaling) instead of the 210,000 deaths we have? What did they do right and Trump wrong?
Or how about Australia? Why did Australia have only 12,500 deaths (after scaling) instead of the 210,000 deaths we have? What did they do right and Trump wrong?
Maybe Japan, which is closer in population. Why did Japan have only 4,500 deaths (after scaling) instead of the 210,000 deaths we have? What did they do right and Trump wrong?
Why doesn't Trump or you know that more people have died from Covid in 8 months than the last five years of flu COMBINED??
"Trump could not have enforced them" - HOW do you know - he didn't even try? Other nations did, with good success. New York did, with good success,
Why didn't Trump even try to set the example instead of doing just the opposite. If he had worn a mask, most of his lemming-like followers would have done the same. Give me a break.
As to dictator, Trump has already granted himself that power. Fortunately, in 30 days that will be gone.
Another why. Why did his aides LIE by saying there was nobody around Trump when he stupidly took off his mask for a phony photo up on the balcony. I guess the photographer next to him doesn't count as a person.Right now Trump is suffering from two issues. One is his mental condition and the other is the virus. In his own words, he claims he did not shut down the country in February when he realized how dangerous the virus was, because he did not want to panic the people. But if he would have shut down the country at that time and followed the CDC guidelines, he could have save thousands of lives.
According to Mary Trump, his niece, the reason he thinks that way is because he has a mental condition that was brought on by his father and Norman Vincent Peale about the Power of Positive Thinking.
His father taught him that admitting to an illness is a sign of weakness. Therefore, he thinks he can use positive thinking to solve any negative problem by using the power of positive thinking.
He will positive think his way out of the virus by bull shi**ing people into believing what his positive thinking wants to him to believe. Right now he is on a very powerful steroid drug that makes him manic and he thinks he is all powerful and can do anything he wants. Even become immune to the virus overnight"But if he would have shut down the country at that time"
Please quote the section of the Constitution, or any other law, giving the President the power to shut down business all over the country at his discretion.Wilderness: It doesn't need to be in the Constitution. It was a national emergency. Let me remind you that he did shutdown the country months later when it was too late and that is why we have over 200,000 deaths right now.
Shutdown is the wrong term to use. It was actually called lockdown. The experts pleaded for him to lockdown the country and he said, "We only have 15 cases and it is just like the flu and will go away." If he would have listened to the experts instead of Sean Hannity and all his cohorts at Fox News, we wouldn't be in this mess we are in right now and more than likely, he and his staff wouldn't have contracted the virus,It isn't difficult to notice that you provide no links to any law that allows the President to close businesses all over the country at his discretion. Simply saying "Well, it's an emergency" is not such a link, and you know as well as I do that calling something an "emergency" (such as the invasion over our southern border) does NOT automatically give our president the authority to make such a step.
Want to try again, this time referencing the law that gives him that authority? You might want to investigate the provisions of imposing martial law: under Article I, Section 8, Clause 15, of the Constitution, Congress has the power "[t]o provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress insurrections and repel Invasions." It wouldn't be the president, and you might have difficulty showing the "insurrections" or "invasions" necessary, but it might be a start on finding a way for the President to enforce your lockdown.
I suspect you're going to have real difficulty in finding anything that gives the President such power; even state governors, who do have the authority (granted by state law) to declare an emergency and close the state, are being sued all over the country for what is considered their capricious actions. I think it goes without saying that such problems would be magnified a thousand times in Trump's case, as the millions of TDS sufferers take exception to anything he does.Wilderness: Unlike Trump, I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong. I see it as a learning moment. On the other hand, Trump does not have the Constitutional authority to send people back to work or to school. But he continues to harp on it as if he does.
I still contend that in early February, he knew how dangerous the virus was and he could have had HHS inform the people to follow CDC guide lines to protect themselves and others against the virus.
But he didn't do that until it was too late. He claims he didn't want to panic the people. But I believe he did nothing because, he thought it would look bad for his re-election. Now he is in a pickle and so is the country.After listening to parents of children, I happen to agree that schools need to re-open (with the possible exception of universities).
Trump doesn't have the authority to "inform the people to follow CDC guide lines", either. At best he can suggest that they be followed and provide states with information...which he did. As I recall, he even took some to task for not doing enough.
But there comes a point when the cost of such programs exceeds the value returned, even when that value is lives lost. We do this every day of our lives and there is nothing new in the concept.
You have a right to your own opinion - if you wish to always assume Trump's words and actions are forever for the wrong reasons that is your prerogative. But it is not reasonable to think that other people, looking for actual reasons and unwilling to simply assume the worst possible, will fall into line with you.
Potential Authorities:
n. One such law could
be section 361 of the Public Health Service Act (PHSA). That provision, which has been characterized as
“broad [and] flexible,” grants the Secretary of Health and Human Services—delegated in part to the
CDC—the authority to make and enforce regulations necessary “to prevent the introduction, transmission,
or spread of communicable diseases from foreign countries into the States or possessions, or from one
State or possession into any other State or possession.”
"Congress’s authority to act legislatively on this subject derives from its enumerated powers in the
Constitution. In this context, the Spending Clause and the Commerce Clause of the Constitution are two
potential sources of such authority.
The Spending Clause empowers Congress to tax and spend for the general welfare. and The Commerce Clause grants Congress the power “[t]o regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and
among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes.” This authority empowers Congress to regulate
“three broad categories of activities”: (1) “channels of interstate commerce,” like roads and canals;
(2) “persons or things in interstate commerce,” and (3) activities that substantially affect interstate
commerce. "I would never deny that Congress could enact laws forcing the closure of select businesses, but the comment concerned Trump's ability to do so, and that is a far different thing entirely.
But even if he could, the only possible way to make it work is set the military on every street corner to enforce it all. And that's after the thousands of court cases were cleared off. You know this yourself: had Trump closed 30% of the businesses in this country back in February you would have been the first to rear up and deny he could. Along with millions of other people. Even after losing 200,000+ lives we are still seeing new lawsuits brought against governors; governors that most definitely do have the authority.You simply don't get it do you. Had Trump worn a mask on a regular basis, talked-up the seriousness of covid rather than pretending it is no worse than the flu, used Section 361 of the public health law to mandate mask wearing, we wouldn't have 7 million cases today and 212,000 dead.
Look at Canada and scale that up for size to get an idea of what it really should look like had Trump not failed so spectacularly.No, you don't get it. There are millions of people refusing to wear masks or take any other measures, and they didn't make that decision based on Trump's refusal to wear a mask. Nor is he responsible for 106,001 deaths ("most" of 212,000 deaths) - that is pure baloney, based on a desire to grossly exaggerate predictions of what would happen.
Do you remember those predictions - that we would have 100,000 to 200,000 dead by fall if we took strong steps (that we did not take - witness the beach parties, riots, etc.)? How is it that the prediction was on the high side, but you still blame Trump for over half of them? Do you blame Trump for the riots and the idiots on the beaches (do consider that both groups are generally liberals)?Many, many of them did not wear masks because Trump encouraged them not to wear masks.
Are you suggesting that the words and actions of a president mean absolutely nothing to the average American, especially those Red Hats who idolize Trump. Please join us in the real world.
I don't know about the few riots, but the many peaceful protests I have seen on TV featured most wearing masks, only like Trump's rallies and WH events. You know which peaceful protests that did not wear masks? The ones by gun-toting Red Hats.Wilderness: Every rally that Trump has had since Covid, he has never worn a mask and neither has his audience. So you think they did that on their own, not because he encouraged them to do that?
They have tail gate parties before the rallies and buy stuff after the rallies. They sit shoulder to shoulder without a care for getting the virus, even though they scream and holler during the rallies and spread the virus.
Look at the motorcycle rally that was held in Utah. You don't think they spread the virus? Trump defies rules and regulations that don't benefit him and his followers love him for that, so they do the same thing. As I said before, there goes their gene pool.Good point about the Sturgis thing...now show that they are all Trump supporters and don't wear a mask because of him.
Then show the same for the college parties. And the rioters. And the businesses that either open (when they are not supposed to) or go broke. Then you can show that those people suing the state for their "capricious" rules in blue states all support Trump.
It's really easy to point to a few thousand in Trump's rally's and declare that the millions ignoring or fighting the law are also doing it for the same reason. It doesn't follow, of course, but it's easy to do.Wilderness: By the same token show that all the beach parties, college parties, and riots were all caused by liberals. It doesn't take millions to spread the virus.
If the Rt is 3, that means that one person in group can give it to three other people and from that point on, the spread rate is exponential. It doesn't take rocket science to figure out if 500 people are at a Trump rally sitting shoulder to shoulder and not wearing masks and half of them are infected what an Rt of 2 can do exponentially.
The main thing is Trump promotes not wearing masks, social distancing, and not washing hands and his people follow his mantras. Do you deny that?As the large majority of beach parties were college kids, notoriously liberal, I think that speaks for itself.
The main thing is not a few thousand supporters not wearing masks: it is the millions of people (that you call "Trump supporters" because they don't wear masks) that not only refuse a mask but go far beyond in illegally re-opening business, sue local governments for necessary controls, etc. That fight every restriction placed in an attempt to save lives and therefore are Trump supporters".
Doesn't work for me, doesn't work for anyone requiring evidence to support such claims.Common sense must prevail here.
Trump promotes not wearing masks
Red State governors go out of their way to open venues known to be superspreaders.
Many Red State governors actively prevent regulations for wearing masks.
I don't know about the claim being that college students are "notoriously" liberal. Granted it was a long time ago, but my California alma mater was notoriously conservative, and since it is an ag college, I doubt that has changed.
What college students of all stripes are notorious about is being Trump-like and not caring about their fellow students.
Liberals promote wearing masks.
Peaceful protesters, liberal ones, by and large wore masks
Peaceful, but armed, protestors were protesting about wearing masks - these are Trump supporters
So give me a break asking for evidence of what is in plain site.Absolutely. Common sense must prevail. And common sense tells us very plainly that those millions fighting any and all rules about COVID protection are not all conservatives. It tells us (me at least) that assigning the label "conservatives" to all protesters not wearing a mask is beyond silly when it is obvious that such a claim can only be assumption, not established fact. Same for assigning "Trump supporters" label to any protestors that are protesting about wearing masks, particularly in blue states.
Makes sense that an ag college will be conservative. The religious based one I receive ads from all the time is, too. That hardly indicates that there are a significant number of them, or that the farm kids attending your ag college are representative of the general college kid.
You may think it is obvious, you may think it is in "plain sight", but only those people that apply that "trump supporter" to anything they don't like will agree. Again, those people looking for reality and truth will want something more that your personal assumption and the labels you apply based on that assumption."Common sense must prevail. And common sense tells us very plainly that those millions fighting any and all rules about COVID protection are not all conservatives. " - I would agree, there are probably a handful of non-Conservatives - so let's go with 90% Conservatives and 10% other.
We apply the term Trump supporter only to those who support Trump and his failed presidency and his vile, disgusting character, and his traitorous supplication to Russia, and his racism, and his homophobia, and his misogyny, and his disregard for human life, and his .... I am sure you get the picture.
I will certainly be happy to see him in jail next year, along with the rest of his criminal enterprise (which includes Barr now)"We apply the term Trump supporter only to those who support Trump and his failed presidency..."
Then you recognize the foolishness of making such statements as "Peaceful, but armed, protestors were protesting about wearing masks - these are Trump supporters" because you have exactly zero idea of what the political ideology of those people are. You haven't spoken to them, no one has polled them and there is nothing whatsoever that supports such a statement. At absolute best you caught sight of a few signs in a group of hundreds or thousands.Oh give me a break, WIlderness, now you are just being obtuse.
??? You're the one making statements based purely on your own assumptions and calling it "common sense", not I. Or is anyone that owns a gun automatically a "Trump supporter"? I would have to express serious doubt about that as well.
Truly, you are making the totally unwarranted assumption that anyone that doesn't wear a mask is a Trump supporter...a completely unfounded assumption...and trying to say that such an assumption is just "common sense".
Personally, I find "common sense" to be one of the more uncommon things to find today, and your stance strongly supports that.Wilderness: There are a total of 7,786,164 COVID cases and 217,319 deaths as of today in the U.S. How do you think we got here, by wearing masks, social distancing, and washing our hands? No we got here by those who still do not follow the experts and CDC guidelines. Even Trump's rose garden event became a super-spreader because people were ignoring those guide lines and yet following Trump's lead.
I don't care if they are liberal, conservative, democrat or republican college students and/or beach goers. Those who are following Trump's lead and not the science are to blame for this mess that Trump has created.
It was by Trump downplaying the virus and his supporters following his lead. He even overruled the CDC. He put Dr. Birx and Dr. Fauci out to pasture. Trump doesn't believe in science, but he does believe in fantasy contrived positive thinking. He thinks he can positive think his way out of this pandemic. He is definitely full of crap and so are his supporters. Like I said before, there goes their gene pool.Well said, Peter.
I see WIlderness introduced another fallacy that nobody claimed "Truly, you are making the totally unwarranted assumption that anyone that doesn't wear a mask is a Trump supporter." - You see, making stuff up like that destroys any credibility he has.
As does this false statement "Or is [b]anyone[/b[ that owns a gun automatically a "Trump supporter"? " - Any fool knows that there are plenty of non-Trump supporters, many of them liberal, who own guns.
But it is only Trump supporters who invade a capital building threatening people and politicians with their guns. Only anarchists, white supremacists, and right-wing militias. Trump supporters all, who would do such a thing. Almost no god-fearing liberal and even non-god fearing ones, wouldn't do that.You mean anarchists like the BLM that demands defunding police? Those Trump supporters?
BLM are not anarchists - that is something you and the rest of the right-wing made up, Wilderness.
Also, nobody in power with the ability to do anything wants to defund the police - again another right-wing propaganda piece based on the statements of a few radicals.
No, I am talking about anarchists like the ones who wanted to murder the MI governor.Of course the BLM are not anarchists - they merely want law enforcement removed from our society so every person can do as they wish (remember CHAZ?). Odd, though, that I always thought such lawlessness is anarchy - you must use a different dictionary than I do.
Of course no one in power with the ability to do anything wants to defund the police! That's why it is the little people, the mom and pop stores and the kid working at McDonalds are doing it - they are the ones cutting police budgets, not the legislature or mayors. It's just "right-wing propaganda" saying that it is the top of the heap that is doing it!
You do realize how foolish that sounds, right?Wilderness: By Trump's own admission, he says he plays to people's fantasies and uses what he calls "truthful hyperbole" to exaggerate his points. When in fact, it's just a euphemism for his lying. (From his book, The Art of the Deal).
He also distorts the Power of Positive Thinking (From his nieces' book, Enough is Enough) to lie about the virus and everything else he spins to his benefit.
Every metric in God's green earth says the virus is not going away soon, in fact it is getting worse. Why would you support Trump when all the legitimate statistics say just the opposite?
Could it be that he is playing to your fantasies as well, not just about the virus, but about everything he distorts and spins? He is screwing with this election by saying if he doesn't win, then it is rigged,
He is the one who is trying to rig the election, by sabotaging the post office by removing sorting machines and claiming that if he loses, the mail-in-ballots have been compromised. He now is assembling his army of poll watchers to intimidate the voters. This man knows no bounds and has no conscience. But he does know how to play to people's fantasies and lie.I'm not sure what Trump has to do with BLM being anarchists. Or what the claim he's trying to rig the election, his comments that the virus is going away or that he distorts the Power of Positive Thinking.
You'll have to draw a much firmer line connecting any of those to BLM being anarchists, or to "nobody in power with the ability to do anything wants to defund the police" (when we see the opposite all over the country) for me to understand where you're going. Or have you left the BLM behind as another statement you can't back up and jumped back into "Trump Bad!" mode?Again, Peter, Wilderness is being purposefully obtuse.
Wilderness: Here is some reading material for you. Next time you do your own research. You missed the point. Trump lying, exaggerating, and miss-use of the power of positive thinking is connected to everything he does and says, not just the virus. That is his playbook for everything. Trump is bad. You are just not willing to accept that.
Here are the links to:
Black Lives Matter, defunding the police
Five myths about Antifa
Who are the Proud Boys
The Wolverine Watchmen
https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-defun … lly-means/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/ … story.html
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ … nald-trump
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2 … n-militia/Alright, I watched some of the first link, explaining why BLM wants to defund the police.
I don't care what their reasons are: they are very plain and open that they want police defunded. Maybe gone, maybe not, but at a minimum much reduced.
Now you can respond to that with "TRUMP BAD MAN!" (again) but that change of topic does not address the results of the anarchy that results when there is no law enforcement, or when it is grossly insufficient to protect the people and their property. Your "TRUMP BAD!" does not change that BLM wants police departments defunded and it does not indicate that leaders nationwide are doing just that.
Nor do articles about Antifa or the Proud Boys say anything about BLM and their defund police demands. Do I now need to go back in this thread and copy/paste your comments that BLM does not want that, that it is not the leaders doing it but the people in the street? That no one with the power and ability wants to defund police?
Or will you now claim that no one is actually defunding their police departments? That should be good for a chuckle!Wilderness: Yes, I want you to go back and copy and paste my comments that BLM doesn't want that and that it is not leaders doing it put the people in the streets.
Apologies: it was Esoteric, not you, Nevertheless;
"BLM are not anarchists - that is something you and the rest of the right-wing made up, Wilderness.
Also, nobody in power with the ability to do anything wants to defund the police - again another right-wing propaganda piece based on the statements of a few radicals."Wilderness: That's what I thought. You keep saying I'm off track about Trump and the virus. Let me remind you what the original topic is about. Here is the title of this forum.
"Trump Lies, Distortions, and Deceptions About Coronavirus"And the statement, embedded in a discussion of what BLM wants, was that BLM does not want defunding of police and that it isn't the people with the ability to do just that doing it.
An outright lie, based on who is defunding police and stated goals of the BLM.
No, it wasn't you, but it was what I responded to. You entered that discussion with a deflection from the topic (regardless of the title of the thread) onto Trump.Who has actually "defunded" the police? Curious minds want to know.
Forbes (surely a reputable source) lists 13 of them as of the time of the article. Curious minds look and find.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcev … b4eab529e3Wilderness: I read your article and it states that Biden does not support defunding the police. It also states that Trump is wrongly stating what Biden said. Again, this is happening on Trump's watch, if he doesn't like it, he should take care of it, not blame others for issues they have no control over.
Mike(?), I agree with you that Pres. Trump is misstating Biden's position, (as he has stated it), but, relative to your "on Trump's watch" thought; given the volatility of the situation, and Constitutional restraints, what do you think Trump can do to stop the defunding of the mentioned police depts.? Are you suggesting he should micromanage each city's law enforcement funding?
GAGA: No I'm saying he should quit blaming others for things that happen on his watch. For example, he blames Biden for all the riots and even says if he gets elected he will cause chaos and destruction of the cities. How does he know that? That's just B.S. propaganda, just like all the rest of his conspiracy theory that never come true.
" Again, this is happening on Trump's watch, if he doesn't like it, he should take care of it, not blame others for issues they have no control over."
I can only see this as saying Pres. Trump should stop the defunding of the police. departments. As for those "others," they are the cities that have the authority and are doing the defunding. They certainly do have control over "it."
GAAre you speaking to Pres. Trump's claims that Biden supports the defunding? If so, I don't see the connection with your 'he should do something about it' statement.
GAGA: Biden is not president, Trump is. Biden has no official office, but Trump continues to blame him for not doing enough to stop the riots and protests and supporting defunding the police.
If Trump doesn't like it, he should do something about it. But that is Trump's MO to shift the blame to others for his own screwup's. He will never take the blame for anything he has done wrong and he will never apologize.I think I understand your references to Pres. Trump's campaign rhetoric towards Biden and his, (projected), lack of condemnation of the looting, and rioting violence. To me, that is just campaign propaganda—regardless of the claim or which side it is coming from.
However, I am still stuck on your apparent accusation that Trump should do something about it instead of just railing against it. Given that almost the entirety of what could be included in that bucket; the rioting and looting, the defunding, etc., are state and locality responsibilities—with no legitimate avenue for Federal intervention, short of an invitation. Just what do you think Pres. Trump should have done?
GAGA: Unfortunately, people in those riots and protests don't wear uniforms. Therefore, it is hard to identify who is actually destroying things. Trump likes to blame Antifa and the democrats for the destruction. However, he does not denounce white supremacy groups. As a matter of fact he emboldens them with his rhetoric. He says they like him, therefore he likes them and rationalizes they are O.K. and then shifts the blame to liberals and democrats.
He should stop playing to people's fantasies about the virus and creating false hope about the same treatment that he had and the public will soon be able to get for free. Stop saying the virus is going to go away soon when the cases reach new highs everyday. Stop demanding that kids go back to school and people go back to work. The president is in a position to develop a national plan with all the governors, but Trump doesn't know how. But he has successfully divided the governors into an us and them mentality. Again, he shifts the blame to democratic governors while praising republican governors."Therefore, it is hard to identify who is actually destroying things."
That seems odd; most of the posters on these forums are identifying them as "right wing". Seems simple enough - anyone doing something you don't like is a "right winger" or, possibly, a White Supremacist.Wilderness: You make it sounds as if I don't like a group, then I identify it as right wing or white supremacists. It's the other way around, they identify themselves as white supremacists as they are doing their bad deeds and then I say I don't like them. Unlike Trump who shifts the blame to liberals and democrats without any supporting evidence. It's called conspiracy theory.
Your assignment is to determine how many members of these groups are left wing liberal, democrats.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category: … ted_StatesWell, I wasn't pointing the finger specifically at you, but if the shoe fits... You say it doesn't, and based on your past posts I can, and do, accept that.
The point is that there are many that will assign labels based on nothing more than undesirable behavior, and those labels are often no more than "right wing" or another word for the same thing.
To be clear and to repeat myself, those who are being arrested for rioting come from both the violent faction on the right and the left.
Statistics prove, however, that the majority of civil violence in America falls on the violent right. Now please note I did not say all, as you are prone to do, but the majority. That is why groups associated with white supremacist are listed as terrorist organizations, along with Qanon, by the FBI, but Antifa and BLM are not. (I am sure there are some left-wing extremists groups also identified as such, but i am not aware of their names.)Do your statistics include the dozens of massive riots this year? Or were tens of thousands of people, participating in mostly BLM "protests", all from the "right"?
Were all those statues toppled by "right wingers"?
If so, how was that determined? Was each one asked for their political affiliation?
But I'm a little puzzled by your comment that "That is why groups associated with white supremacist are listed as terrorist organizations, along with Qanon, by the FBI, but Antifa and BLM are not." What is the reason - that statistics show most civil violence is from the far right, so white supremacists are labeled "terrorist" but Antifa is not? How are those statistics a reason to apply the label "terrorist"?"Do your statistics include the dozens of massive riots this year? " - BASED on Director Wrey's recent testimony, yes.
As to the rest of your comment, I refer you to the FBI.
Hmm . . .I didn't see anything in your comment about our original point that Pres. Trump should do something about the Defunding-the-police issue?
GAGA: This is what I said.
"GA: Biden is not president, Trump is. Biden has no official office, but Trump continues to blame him for not doing enough to stop the riots and protests and supporting defunding the police.
If Trump doesn't like it, he should do something about it. But that is Trump's MO to shift the blame to others for his own screwup's. He will never take the blame for anything he has done wrong and he will never apologize."
What I meant as far as defunding the police is for Trump to stop blaming Biden for saying he supports defunding the police. That is a falsehood on Trump's part and he should stop doing it.
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-fact … SKCN252248I got it now. To me, your comment read that Pres. Trump should do something about the issues you mentioned., ie. stopping the riots and stopping the defunding. That 'read' seemed reinforced when you also said; "But that is Trump's MO to shift the blame to others for his own screwup's.".
I think it is a wiggly explanation, but I can understand I might have misread your comment.
GAGA: That's O.K. It's close enough for government work.
-MikeHa! That was one of my grandfather's favorite expressions in the late 1950s and early 60s.
GAGA: That's when I learned it, working for defense contractors in the 1950's and 1960's.
Looking back on it, I would think he was talking about slight variations in specs. As I understand it, everything from ashtrays to carbines came with pages and pages of specs for the product. I can just imagine what he would have said if he had been around in the time of the $600 hammer.
GA
