Is This What is happening in school these days?

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   starme77posted 14 years ago

   I seen this and it has caused alot of controversy, my daughter, having been the victim of the same kinds of cruel treatment from her peers these past few months causes me to believe these kids should be prosecuted and the adults held liable also - take a peak and tell me what ya'll think .... http://www.slate.com/id/2249307/?GT1=38001

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      LegendaryHeroposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      That's terrible. I blame parents, teachers, and our educational system in general. People don't take bullying seriously enough and with the zero tolerance policies when victims finally crack they get in trouble along with the bully.

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         starme77posted 14 years agoin reply to this

         exactly - I am going through some similar bullying with my 14 year old daughter right now , since I am at the beginning of a nasty divorce  from her dad right now I am particularly concerned about her , the last thing she needs is to be being bullied at school. The adults seem to not be paying attention - but they will tomorrow 5 minutes with me and they will hav eno choice but to stop it thats for sure - these kids that are doing the bullying have parents who - it should have been illegal for them to have kids because kids are a reflection of their parents  and people like that should not be allowed to have children

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      rebekahELLEposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      it's very sad and tragic. the blame can't be placed on anyone in particular. the blame is on everyone, society itself.
      
      bullying starts in early childhood. lack of social training, learning skills of how to interact in all kinds of situations.
      if a young child learns how to assert himself and speaks up, chances are better the child will grow to be independent of others approval.  we practiced a social skills training program with pre-k children that taught them how to respond to everyday situations including anger, tattletelling, teasing...
      
      social skills are not inherently within an individual, they must be taught and practiced until they're part of a person's social being. it starts in the home. the mean girls were allowed to get away with their behavior because no one held them accountable for their actions. these are the kind of girls that are allowed to talk back to their parents with no consequence.
      
      bullying needs to have immediate consequences at school and at home, in the workplace. and it can be enforced in schools as long as everyone including parents understand there are consequences. and hey, I know, from being in the classroom, no parent wants to hear that their kid has been a jerk, but that doesn't take away the responsibility of teachers and school officials to do their job. one of the school's responsibility is to keep the students safe.

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   blue dogposted 14 years ago

   many will glance over the "school administrators" and "other administrators" and "in the presence of a faculty member" and "school officials" references.  combine that aspect with the fact that stupid people shouldn't breed, much less be handed the responsibility of parenting, and it's a no-brainer as to why the bullying problem exists.
   
   it's also no wonder that they then turn into the tks' and brendas' and texans' and mishas' of the internet.

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      starme77posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I take offense to the comment about misha - hes a favorite of mine around here - dont know the others though

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         blue dogposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         good for you.

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            starme77posted 14 years agoin reply to this

            yeah it is - actually its rude to take a pot shot at others like that - even for the others that i dont know - I think , maybe you were describing yourself

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      LegendaryHeroposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Bullying does not correlate with stupid people. Bad parenting does not correlate with these so-called stupid people either.
      
      I also take offense at you suggesting that people that you disagree with are all bullies who were raised by "stupid people".
      
      

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         blue dogposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         good for you too.

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         starme77posted 14 years agoin reply to this

         who ya talkin too?

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            LegendaryHeroposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Blue dog, the immature responser.

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               starme77posted 14 years agoin reply to this

               ya got that right

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            LegendaryHeroposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Do you read the forums in chronological view? If not, you should because you can actually see who people are responding to.

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      Justine76posted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Misha isnt a bad guy?....really. He isnt.

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      Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      So I take it you're not allowed to breed?
      
      I met a college professor who said something similar to your statement above. The only thing I can say is it puts you and he in the same category, that being incredibly bigotted, which is an obvious lack of intelligence.
      
      Not impressive to say the least.

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         blue dogposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         it's a choice.  there is little desire in wanting to raise a child in today's environment. not only would they have to be surrounded with a peer group such as this:
         
         http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=iOQV6yU … re=related
         
         but they would then have to be educated in how to best deal with comments such as yours.  life's too short.

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            LegendaryHeroposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Uh, what? Loads of people want to raise kids...
            
            Don't worry kid, one of these days your prefrontal cortex will fully develop and then we can try having a logical argument.

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   blue dogposted 14 years ago

   right.  blame the teachers.  it's always the teachers who are at fault for shitty parenting.

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      LegendaryHeroposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I blamed the parents as well.
      
      Teachers need to punish bullying when it is reported to them.

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         starme77posted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I think all adults involved - should be to blame as well as the kids parents

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            LegendaryHeroposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I was responding to Blue Dog again.

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               starme77posted 14 years agoin reply to this

               I'm kinda sick of blue dog - he/ she/ it ? does have a good name though I got a puppy always looking for trouble just the same

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                  LegendaryHeroposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  I just became acquainted with him and I'm already sick of him.

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         blue dogposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         i''m not sure how much time you've spent in american schools recently, but i can assure you that teachers having the freedom to "punish bullying" carries as much logic as your comments.

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            LegendaryHeroposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I grew up in American schools.
            
            So you're telling me that teachers shouldn't have the power to punish bullying?
            
            If anything, you're the illogical one here.

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               blue dogposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               perhaps you should re-read my post and point me in the direction where i wrote that "teachers shouldn't have the power to punish bullying."
               
               your comments prove my previous points.

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                  LegendaryHeroposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  You said, "i can assure you that teachers having the freedom to "punish bullying" carries as much logic as your comments."
                  
                  You said that it was illogical for teachers to punish bullying. What points do my comments prove exactly?

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                     blue dogposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     the short answer to your question is nothing.

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                        LegendaryHeroposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        And how does doing nothing help anything?
                        
                        Short answer: It doesn't.

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            Disturbiaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Unfortunately teachers don't seem to have the power to do anything anymore.  If they break up a fight at school and so much as touch one of the students, the teacher gets suspended and somebody's parents file a lawsuit, and the whole thing is broadcast on the 6 o'clock news .  Society lets our kids get away with too much these days because many parents are too busy with the messes in their own lives so they don't have time to be involved with what their kids are doing.  I think bullies should be kicked out of school... there is the door tough guy, use it and don't come back.

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               LegendaryHeroposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Teachers do have the power to stop fights. We had several teachers and administrators who used to play for the NFL, they would rumble down the halls and grab the fighting kids and then haul them off to the office.

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      Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Well, truthfully, there are shitty teachers. Just as there are shitty people in every other occupation as well. However, I agree they can't be blamed about bad parenting of someone else's kids.
      
      I'm just sayin'...

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4. 62

   Daniel Carterposted 14 years ago

   Bullying is about bad relationships, at the root. Teaching kids how to develop good relationships, how not to be loner, and many more things *could* help prevent some of that. It's the new kid, the loner, the unsure quiet, easy victims that usually get tagged by bullies.
   
   Teachers often don't know exactly what to do in bullying situations, either. It can be a little overwhelming. Education and talking about it really is important.
   
   I've been pretty worked up over the headlines because they keep repeating themselves every so often. I don't know if helps, but I did write something on this subject.

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      LegendaryHeroposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Education in child psychology would be extremely helpful.

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         blue dogposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         teachers aren't allowed to teach, thanks to government-mandated testing.  teachers are providers at day care facilities. 
         
         education in quality parenting would be of greater benefit than child psychology.  the first step would be taking away the 18-year (plus) tax credit afforded those who procreate.

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            LegendaryHeroposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Teachers do teach, its just that their teaching is restricted to what the government wants for testing, which I disagree with.
            
            You can only learn good parenting from other good parents and education in psychology would help teachers. Obviously you have never taken a psychology course otherwise you would agree, because of the benefits.
            
            Taking away the tax credits for children would ensure that only the moderately wealthy would be able to afford children. It would be foolish to take it away because people would still have children and they would be raised in poorer environments.

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            Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Victims always find reasons not to try. The government won't let me, etc.
            Visionaries look past obstacles to a greater goal. The put their students on their shoulders to let them glimpse the horizon above the mountain tops.
            
            It's inspiring.
            
            I had a few teachers like this and so did my kids. However, there aren't enough of them.
            
            We have to live beyond our excuses.

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            Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            "teachers aren't allowed to teach, thanks to government-mandated testing.  teachers are providers at day care facilities. 
            
            education in quality parenting would be of greater benefit than child psychology.  the first step would be taking away the 18-year (plus) tax credit afforded those who procreate."
            
            
            x 3

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   starme77posted 14 years ago

   dont worry about the blue dog jerk - I feel bad this evening - tired and have a cold but ya'll know me well enough to know I'll shut em down soon enough
   Its nice to see ya again Daniel - I chose you to date on the which hubber would you date forum

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      Justine76posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      feel better!! Ill watch the video tomorrow, its to late for  soudndtonight, Im sorry your kiddos are being bullied, did you read Daniel's hub? I was bullied BIG TINE as a kid, all I can say is what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger, and I did not have the benefit of a caring mother, so..thats a plus for yours!!

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      Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      
      
      I haven't dared wander in there! Wow what a compliment, starme! Thanks mucho. That's a daybrightener!

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         starme77posted 14 years agoin reply to this

         xo xo xo

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   cosetteposted 14 years ago

   since all of these children were minors and their parents were paying for their cell phones, internet usage and computers, they should have done a better job of policing their children who were bullies, and the girl who took her own life should have had more diligent parents, and the school also was at fault for not reporting bullying that was witnessed, and most of all the bullies themselves. i knew right from wrong at age 8, and these kids were teens!

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      Justine76posted 14 years agoin reply to this

        you KNOW not everyone's lucky enough to get a mom as good as you!

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         cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         thank you. and that is why i said everyone who was involved should share responsibility for this tragedy.

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            Justine76posted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Im taking your word for it, as I cant see the link 'till tomorrow. i do know, if any one parent I knew when I was a kid would have put down thier beer and paid attention, things could have been better....

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      starme77posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Exactly Glad to see you again Cosette

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   Crazdwriterposted 14 years ago

   Having been a victim of bullying myself I as I teacher will not stand by and allow it to happen in my classroom. Thankfully it doesn't happen a lot with my preschoolers. And as a parent I will not stand by either. If it hapens to my kids I will confront the principal, teacher, and the parents of the kid bullying my kid. No kids should have to deal with such a horrible act such as this.

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   cosetteposted 14 years ago

     i'm sorry ((Justine)).
   
   me too. which is why i vowed to be a good mom one day

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      Justine76posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      yeeeeeup!    I know, me too, and I bet starme too. Hope she feels better soon!!

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   foreignpressposted 14 years ago

   Teachers are unable to supervise and teach anymore. There's too much going on and too many expectations from the teachers. There is only one answer to bullying: The parent has to confront the school. One parent I know went before the school board and angrily demanded that bullying be stopped. They had no idea bullying was a problem. She then went to the local newspaper and demanded an editorial be written about bullying. She continued to hound the principal and teachers and she also let it be known who the bullies were. The more publicity there is the more likely the bullying will stop. It's terrifying for the child to attend school every day knowing something bad will happen.

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      Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Making it public is the key!

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    foreignpressposted 14 years ago

    SkyNews just reported that Britain's government condones physical intervention by teachers in the classroom.
       "If there is a fight going on, if teachers are worried about children being unsafe, if there is a pupil in their classroom who is refusing to leave, then the law is very clear, that teachers can use force in order to make sure there is proper discipline . . ."
       At the lower grades this wouldn't be a problem. But in the higher grades, like 7-12, it seems teachers would need a weapon. But obviously this wouldn't be allowed. So is this what's happening in our schools? Yes. And it's getting worse especially with the ACLU more than happy to defend the aggressor.
       Cutbacks in school staff has made it impossible to prevent verbal and physical attacks. So parents must get involved in monitoring school grounds and even inside the school. Some students are even afraid to walk home. And it isn't just inner city schools but schools of all sizes in any community. As evidenced in the SkyNews report it's happening everywhere. Some schools have been forced to install security devices similar to airport TSA screening procedures.
       But there is a method. Identify the ringleaders. It's always one or two that stand out. Then let them know they're being watched. It can get nasty.

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       Polly Cposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       I don't know what was in that report, but I believe most teachers in Britain are afraid to intervene physically because of the fear of being sued. The Government may have said they condone it, I don't know about that, but I don't think that is a true reflection of how schools operate here. Some teachers of primary school children are even afraid to comfort children who are hurt because they fear being accused of child abuse - politics gone crazy.  But this is the advice they are given.
       
       Also, my son attends schools in a good area and in a part of the country which is, so far, not known for knife crime. I am sure teachers in some schools in some parts of the country would be afraid of intervening in many cases for their own safety. After all, there have been many cases of teenagers being stabbed by other young people recently.  It's horrible.

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    Lisa HWposted 14 years ago

    My kids are grown now, but when they were little my husband and I had the "dream plan" (at least as we saw it) for dealing with bullying incidents:
    
    Schools should have an official and well established procedure/person for any child who has been bullied to report it. 
    
    They should contact parents.  If they have reason to think the parents will beat the kid up if they call, then they should call Social Services (who also should have a procedure in place for this particular issue).
    
    Other than that, call the parents; and make it clear that a third write-up will mean calling Social Services (because kids who repeatedly bully other kids often come from parents who foster the behavior in some way).  If the parents are perfectly wonder people who somehow just got a kid who's a jerk, then Social Services could help them deal with their jerk kid in some way.
    
    (I know Social Services are overworked as it is.  As I said, it was a "dream" plan.)
    
    Part of the plan was also to have a special school for kids who are behavior problems, and boot them out of the regular school.  More than once I was told by school officials that bullies are in the minority.   To me, that pretty much means they're troubled little misfits who make the school setting difficult for kids in the majority.
    
    Maybe if parents were told 1) that bullying isn't "just what kids do because they're cruel" and 2) that their kid would be sent to the special "loser school for bullies" (where policies/practices were all aimed at kids with "issues") they'd try a little harder to make sure their own kid knew the difference between what's acceptable and what will get you sent to the school for losers. 

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    bgpappaposted 14 years ago

    Back to the original post.
    
    The school administators were notified of the bullying for months and chose to do nothing whatsoever.
    
    So in my humble opinion, the school deserves some blame, as do the bullies.
    
    But perhaps we should all be a little tougher as well.  Life isn't perfect and as a society we seem to expect it to be.

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    RNMSNposted 14 years ago

    Does anyone besides me realize that the coolest minds, the most intellectual, the ones who have finally begun the road back to sanity are the very ones who were the outcasts of the 50-60-mid 70's? no one parent or media stood up for us...many of us committed suid=cide as well but was hushed up many of us tried suicide failed and never told a soul
    
    yet here we are still no answer still no tolerance... gays, girls begging for affection, poltical radicaols, feminism
    where will it end?
    
    in death

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    brandyBachmannposted 14 years ago

    I myself was a victim of bullying, I though it was normal (during that time people considered it a normal part of school) I guess parents should just teach their kids to be tough mentally and psychologically, let their kids stand and fight for themselves because parents can't keep an eye on their children all the time and the best person to protect their child is their child himself/herself, prepare them for the worst,read articles about bullying equip their kids with information on how to deal with bullying, give them tactics to minimize or eliminate bullying, talk to their kids more often and look for signs of bullying and once they see these signs call the school and report it. Guide their children in handling the situation instead of handling it for them.

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    mamieannaposted 14 years ago

    The problem with these bulley is that they feel badly about themselves and they lack disciplin. That is the reason that they feel the need to make others feel bad. There is a book that you may want to reccommend to your child's teacher called Secrets of Classroom Behavior Management it is on Amazon.com

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       LegendaryHeroposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Studies have shown that bullies are the ones with the highest self-esteem. What they need is for somebody to lower it through a good old fashion
       
       

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          starme77posted 14 years agoin reply to this

          I think its too much ego and your exactly right - knock em down a few notches - slap the chip off their shoulder or just kick em in the butt is good also Nice Idea 

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       LegendaryHeroposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Sounds like nothing more than a pop psychology book.

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    TLMinutposted 14 years ago

    Kids are taught not to hit back when someone hits them, I don't quite know what to think about that. The victim gets in trouble with the brat, are they supposed to just stand there and take it? When you fight back and hurt the bully, people leave you alone after that. Maybe it's worth "getting in trouble" at school so it's known that your kid won't just accept it.

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       starme77posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       well kids , I think are a reflection of their parents , thats why society has grown to be so screwed up ,  these bullies that hurt  this girl most likley have some really crappy parents and are simply repeating the same attitude

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          rebekahELLEposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          that's not necessarily so. it is more likely their parenting style, either too permissive or too harsh and controlling. either extreme can cause problems with kids understanding boundaries and consequences. if too permissive, kids have no one to answer to.
          if too controlling and harsh, kids will take it out on others.
          
          schools need to implement programs to help the overall school climate which involves everyone in the school, parents and community leaders.

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             starme77posted 14 years agoin reply to this

             I think ya got a good point here Never thought of it that way

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    PackSecureposted 14 years ago

    This is so sad to hear about, that poor young girl

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    Lita C. Malicdemposted 14 years ago

    I was once a teacher and the situation you cited is lacking in details. Why was your daughter being made to suffer by her peers? What did she do, did she report this to her teacher? What was the teacher's initial action? Were you informed? If the bad treatment became persistent, what did you and the teacher do about it? All these must be observed first before the persecution of the alleged perpetrators. If I were the teacher, I will exhaust my efforts to find the root of the problem and have it settled at my level first before I go a step beyond, like involving the Guidance Counselor of the school, then having dialog with parents of all concerned. If this is fine with you.

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    Jeff Berndtposted 14 years ago

    I too was bullied, fairly mercilessly, while I was in junior high, and to a lesser extent in high school. I didn't kill myself.
    
    Good for me, I guess, but at the same time, nobody did a darn thing about it, even when it was reported. (And it was reported, until I learned that reporting it did no real good.)
    
    I didn't try to hurt myself because I realized two things. One, this was a temporary situation. In a few years, I'd graduate and move on in life to some other situation where nobody knew me and I could start over. Two, I wasn't the one to blame for what was going on, so why would I want to punish myself?
    
    I never had thoughts of suicide. Plenty of revenge fantasies, though. :-)
    
    I think these bully kids should definitely be held responsible for their nasty behavior, but I don't think this should extend to them being held responsible for this poor girl's death. The bullies did not kill her. They made her life miserable, yes, and they should be punished for that, certainly. Probably they could be prosecuted for slander, libel, assault, battery, and a slew of other crimes. But I don't see how they can be legally blamed for her actual death.

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       starme77posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       I totally agree with you and sorry to hear you were bullied - I was never really bullied so to speak - just picked out and stero typed as a "scum" is all - didn't have many friends - just the others who were labled the same - I bought my own clothes - so I would go get 5 pairs of levies - one for each day of the week - and was labled a scum for wearing the same pants every day - they really were not the same pants - just the same kind - but that didnt matter  - I paid no mind to the comments and just went on my way - when I was 14 I had school , a job , and was caring for several foster kids ranging in age from 1 to 17 - cleaning , cooking, always had a baby on my hip , so I didnt have the time to worry about all the stupid comments at high school

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