What do you think of my situation?

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Katie4everposted 16 years ago
Hello,

You probably have never had such really stupid situation. But try to understand my situation. I'm from Ukraine, 21 years old naive girl. My parents are doctors. I was raised in a very religious and strict family. Last year I was in NYC with student visa. I study tourism management and I wanted to improve my English. I was working in doctor's office as front desk and I fell in love with this doctor. He proposed to me. And I agreed. As I said before my parents are very strict and religious and they didn't let me stay in the USA. They said they have to go back, graduate from college and then in Ukraine we will get married. My fiancé is 40 years old, he was married before and has 2 kids: 14 and 12 years old. And of course my parents are against those relationships. Everything was fine since I left the USA we met 4 times. We are communicating all the time. I applied for college and we planned that I'll come as international student and will be studying in NYC. He didn't tell me the truth from the very beginning, but he doesn't have a citizenship and he can not get citizenship because he wasn't honest with a law. Of course, I was shocked, but I decided that we love each other and want to be together, so I forgave him. And now, in 2 month I graduate from school and I'm about to go to the Embassy to get visa and he told me that he wants a prenuptial agreement. I was shocked. I didn't expect this. He has about 900 thousands USD including house and his Doctor's practice. To be honest I don't understand what those numbers mean. He says that he loves me very much... But now I really doubt. He thinks that I'm very smart and as soon as I'll have MBA I will leave him. He wants in a prenup that everything before we get married is his and after - half to half if we ever get divorce. But there appear something all the time. From the very beginning he didn't say anything about this or other things that I found out. And I really don't know what to do. I'm absolutely not protected. I love him, but I think he just wants to use me. I have very strong character and if I want something my way, so I won't have any chance just to follow him... He said to consult with attorneys. How can I possibly do that if I'm in Ukraine? And my parents are really angry on this entire situation and they don't want me to leave them, country and now especially in these circumstances. Please, help me if you can... What do you think about this situation? Do you think I should go against my parent's and my will and sign a prenuptial? And be without any support and protection if he'll abuse me or hurt me?

Thank you very much for understanding. Hopefully I won't be ignored.
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  MRS. ROBERTSposted 16 years agoin reply to this
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  vietnameseposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  As long as you are able to speak English and understand well, you will not have problem getting support and protection in this country. There is a thing call "legal system" in this country that made this country a great place to live.
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topstuffposted 16 years ago
Eh the story is full of pain,there are many fears on your mind and feel much insecurity.It seems as your beliefs are also different.The relationship is based entirely on doubts.Such relationships hardly work sadly.Perhaps it wouldbe better to agree with your parents who are more careful about you and seem to be more sincere.Make that relationship a part of memories.Sorry
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  Katie4everposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you for your respond. I really appreciate it. I think that you are right as my parents.
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RFoxposted 16 years ago
Doubts are our warning signs. Don't marry unless you are 100% sure. As you said you are a smart girl with an education. Why not try and get your visa anyway and go live there for yourself.

I also think your parents are right. Sometimes our family can see the things we don't want to acknowledge.
You're lucky to have such a good family.

You will find the right man if you are patient. It doesn't sound like this guy is the right one. Sorry.
Take Care.

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  Katie4everposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you for your advice. You asked me why I will not get a visa and go live there by myself? Because I'm afraid of being alone. I was in NYC for almost 5 months and now trying to think rationally of past events I think that part of the reason why I fell in love with this guy so easily because I was lonely and he was lonely. I need some support and he gave that support. Of course I had some friends and relatives, but may be you understand that I'm talking about something more than just friendship. I'm talking about trust, love, care... Something that just naive girls like me are looking for. And I heard many times that people in the USA, especially in big cities, such as NYC are lonely. What do you think, is it truth?
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Acorn Valleyposted 16 years ago
I've been in your situation without the international issues. You really need to consider the age difference and the stepchildren that would come with the marriage. If you're in doubt then wait - you may see things in a clearer light. If he can't wait then it wouldn't have lasted anyway. I wish that I had listened to my parents, it would have saved me a lot of pain and lost time in pursuing the things that would have made my life better. Good luck to you!!
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  Katie4everposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you so much for your respond. Every respond is very important for me. You are right that here is another issue, that I was afraid even to make a stress on. But I'm really concern about this. I didn't have a chance to talk to his kids in person, but we were talking a few times over the phone and his daughter doesn't except me at all. She has very strong personality and to be honest I'm afraid of her. I was reading a few discussions and articles about this topic, but again, he insured me that everything will be fine and it's just my imagination. In fact we are arguing about his daughter all the time.
  
  Last of big argument was because he is spending 15 000 $ on her birthday and I said its too much. I know that I shouldn't calculate his money, but I still think that it's too much. Don't you think so?
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  Marisa Wrightposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  If he is a rich American, he has a different perception of money to you. It's a fortune to us, but not to him.
  
  Do you still love this man as much as you did when you were in America? Is he always in the back of your mind, and when you think of him you feel warm and loved? If the answer is yes, then the relationship may be worth fighting for. If the answer is no, then you should forget about it.
  
  Is there any way you can get another visa to visit the US for a few months? Sounds like he could afford to pay for you to come for an extended visit, to get to know the children and spend more time with him. That's what you really need.
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  Katie4everposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you Marisa, for expressing your opinion. First of all I'd like to respond to your first question. Yes, he is still in the back of my mind... Every time I catch myself on a thought that I'm thinking of him, and I feel love, but at the same time I realize how much pain is there and how many times he hurt me and these thoughts wake me up right away.
  
  Now about another your advice. No, unfortunately there is no way to do it. The only visa I could get is either bride visa, or student visa. We can not organize first one. And if I go with student visa - I have to stay there. This year I graduate from college with Bachelor Degree and I plan to continue education. If I'm going to the USA I will not have a chance to pass exams to college to get Master's and I'll miss a year in case his daughter won't like me or there will be waiting another surprise. Besides if I'm going there so I have to take my clothes, cosmetics, jewelry, somethings for the house. As I'll be able to come to Ukraine only in a year. And I can not go back and forth. In case I will not take anything with me and going there just for a month (what I can not do) I have to stay there, or if I'll come to Ukraine I can not get another visa.
  
  In terms if he is rich or not. In the very begging I wrote how much he owns. I don't know if to consider him as a rich one or not. I know he loves his daughter very much and he can spend a lot of money on her. To be honest it's not my business, but when you hear this, so I'm sure everyone will have the same reaction.
  
  Thank you, Marisa, again for you suggestions. It helped me to put everything on necessary shelves.
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trish1048posted 16 years ago
Wow! My immediate reaction is to tell you to RUN! Stay away from him. There are so many red flags! He is NOT a citizen?? but he lives/works in NY? Here on a green card?
That aside,, #1, he is a USER, #2, he is a LIAR, #3 there's the age difference, #4, why would you want a 'ready-made' family?, #5, already his daughter doesn't like you, but I think she would not approve of anyone her father meets,,,#6, a pre-nup????, #7, how can you KNOW if he is a legitimate doctor?, #8, how do you KNOW he is rich, just because he says so?, #9, everything BEFORE your marriage is HIS??, #10, trouble with the LAW??, what kind of trouble? is that perhaps why he can't become a citizen? #11, you FEAR him AND his daughter!, #12, you state yourself you are NOT protected.
How long have you known him? You state you are smart, and I believe you. Please listen to your head and not your heart. You are a very young woman, and there will be plenty of time to meet 'Mr. Right'. Do NOT rush into anything. If, after thinking long and hard about this, you find you still want to be with him, give it time, lots of it. Marriage is a serious step, and it sounds to me like he wants everything on his terms. Both parties to a marriage need to give the marriage 100%, not 50/50. At the very least, make it a long engagement, other things may come to light that are disturbing, and if you're not married, it would be easier to leave the situation. TRUST what your parents are telling you, they have your best interests at heart, even if you don't think so. I wish you the best, and pray that you make the right decision.

Patty
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  Katie4everposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you so much, Patty for your post, wishing me the best, and praying for my decision. It's very nice of you. You summarize everything I know and just afraid to realize. But I know he is a legitimate doctor because I was working for him. He owns his business. I don't know how rich he is, but if he wants a prenuptial, so he has money.
  
  I agree with you that marriage is serious step and I don't want to rush. I will give it time.
  
  <<<. Marriage is a serious step, and it sounds to me like he wants everything on his terms. Both parties to a marriage need to give the marriage 100%, not 50/50. >>>
  
  That is exactly what I told him yesterday. I asked him why he loves me. What are the reasons for his love? Besides something that is just in his heart everyone looks at the person he likes and define for himself why. And he told me a number of reasons. Then I said reasons why I love him and among them is support, protection, financial stability. With him I feel myself protected. No, better to say I used to be protected. So, I told him that if he takes out something of his list, so I have to take out something of my list. What does he want it be? Does he want me to be dishonest because he likes me for my honesty? Does he wants me to chit on him because he likes me for my faithfulness? Does he wants me to be stupid cause he likes that I'm smart? Does he wants me to be not intelligent any more, because he likes that I'm intelligent? Or may be not to be so hard worker? Or not to be so self motivated? Or what is that that he will be fine if I take it out?
  
  The respond was beauty. He said it's better to have not that beautiful woman. Of course, I have no idea how can I be not 'that beautiful'... But my point is that you like this person for a number of reasons... And when you find out that he doesn't have this thing or another you start questioning all that. Person that loves you wants to give you everything, not 50/50. I'm leaving the country for him, my parents, the house, my career, and education. Because in the USA I have to study again.
  
  Of course, I started questioning all these when I realised that may be ?I won't be able to see my family for God knows what time. And my family is very important to me. And now this pre-nup. And the reason is because he is not secure with me. He thinks that little "something" and I will leave him. And these "little something" was that I found out later that he is has problems with citizenship, that I found out that he was cheating on me, while I was sitting at home in Ukraine thinking of him he was going out with other women, and that his daughter told me on a phone that they don't need me there. All these things for him are just "little something". And he thinks that after these things I shouldn't say that I want to end this relationship. If you were me, what will you do?
  
  S
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  Marisa Wrightposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Support and financial stability are not reasons to love someone. They are reasons to regard someone as a good dependable husband - a meal ticket - but they are definitely not reasons for love. You love someone because of their personality, their values and their beliefs. Can you describe the values, beliefs and qualities that you love? If not, are you sure you love him?
  
  I think you are over-reacting about the prenup. At the beginning of my first marriage, I was convinced it would last forever. I loved and trusted my husband and shared everything. Yet in spite of that very positive beginning, the marriage still went wrong. So when I went into my second relationship with the same positive beginning, I was more careful - because I knew from experience that good relationships can fail. Under the American divorce system, you could steal a lot of his money if you married him and then broke up - I don't blame him for wanting to protect what he has worked to create.
  
  You should be flattered that he is afraid of losing you. It doesn't mean he doesn't trust you. It means he feels he doesn't deserve a woman like you, and he is afraid a better man will come and steal you away. Men often think like that - as if we had no say in the matter!
  
  To be honest, I am more worried about how YOU feel than how he feels. I'm not at all sure you are as committed to this man as you think you are. I think you want to believe you still love him because it would mean a better and wealthier life. That's a dream that's hard to give up.
  
  I'm still not clear how you can get a bride visa if he is not a citizen. I don't know American law but it sounds strange that he can bring you into the country if he is not a citizen himself.
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  Katie4everposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Marisa thanks for your respond. It’s very different from others, but it’s also very important for me. You said that support, protection, financial stability are not the reasons to love some. If there are only these reasons - so I definitely agree with you. But if there are other reasons, so those become also very significant. I used to date guy who had very many good qualities, values and beliefs, but he didn’t know how to earn money. Even when he earned some – he used to borrow money to his friends, then he didn’t know how to spend money. He used to buy not useful things and in few days he already regretted about that. So when I met my fiancé I said to myself that this guy is just great in this. So, actually, it is a reason why I love him.
  
  You asked if I can describe values, beliefs and qualities that I love in him. Yes I can. Of course, I’m attracted to him. I like the way he looks. I like his personality. He is calm, intelligent, smart. And I respect him a lot. He is very hard-working. Everything he has right now he got himself. He is the only one educated from his family. Also I like the way he treats his family. Sometimes I think he helps them too much. He pays for his sister’s and brothers’ families vacations, he helps parents. And of course, he loves his kids. He thinks that they are great, not faults, they are perfect. We planned to have our kids, so as a future mother I saw him as a great father. From his words he had bad previous marriage, but I believe he wants to have good family. So he has good intention and plans.
  
  So, there are plenty of reasons to love him. But the facts that I wrote before didn’t go anywhere. They still are the facts and I think that I have to be concern.
  
  <<<I think you are over-reacting about the prenup.>>> Do you think in my situation it’s OK to sign the prenup?
  
  <<< You should be flattered that he is afraid of losing you. It doesn't mean he doesn't trust you. It means he feels he doesn't deserve a woman like you, and he is afraid a better man will come and steal you away. >>> Well, I’m flattered that he is afraid of losing me. But I don’t think that prenuptial agreement is a good reason to keep me. I don’t marry to divorce, so this actually, I will call it “overprotection of his money” is the thing that concerns me. And in this situation there were so many unexpected things that I don’t know what to expect and why he is so concern of divorce?
  
  <<< I'm still not clear how you can get a bride visa if he is not a citizen. I don't know American law but it sounds strange that he can bring you into the country if he is not a citizen himself.>>>
  
  I can not get bride visa and I mentioned that. May be I didn’t write something correctly, I’m sorry. I studied English only I school, so I can have plenty of mistakes. If you don’t understand something – so excuse me for that. I’ll be more than happy if you correct my mistakes.
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  Marisa Wrightposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, to be honest, I do. If you are marrying this man for love and not for his money, why should you care if he wants to safeguard it?
  
  If you are to sign the prenup, you need to make sure you understand every word before you sign it. It should make allowance for any children you may have.
  
  Why is he so concerned about divorce? Because it's happened to him once already. He loved his first wife just as much as he loves you. He shared everything unreservedly because he thought he would spend the rest of his life with her. Then it fell apart.
  
  He is not young and naive any more. Wanting a prenup doesn't mean he is "marrying to divorce". He just knows that it happens to lots of couples who are madly in love at the start, and he has a responsibility to safeguard his own wealth, if only for the sake of his children.
  
  If you can't get a bride visa, how is he going to get you into the States?
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  Katie4everposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I hope you are not serious about it. I mean it sounds really funny, don’t you find it? You asked me that if I want to marry this man for love, so why I don’t want the prenuptial agreement. Well, the answer is very simple. There are 3 reasons: for that:
  1. I wouldn’t be that concerned about the prenup if there were not situations he put me into.
  2. I wouldn’t be that concerned if he wasn’t.
  3. I’m absolutely not protected in the USA. If something “Little something” as he calls it appears and I will not want to agree with him he will show me the door. Listen, Marisa, I’m not looking for “protection”, for “nanny”, for “father” and if I was in my country I wouldn’t be that concern about what if, but as I’m going there only because of this man, so I HAVE TO BE CONCERN what “if”
  4. I’m in Ukraine. What do you think can I resolve this situation from Ukraine? He keeps saying to me that I have to call to attorney and speak to the professionals in this situation. What do you think is it normal to try to discuss my situation over the phone? Is normal for me to sit down and spend 4-5-6 hours on the phone trying to come to the conclusion? Who gonna talk to me? What kind of idiot it should be without probably work to sit down and discuss with me this crazy situation? Who gonna pay for that? My fiancé? Great! I mean it’s just fantastic! We both have opposite thoughts about this situation and lawyer is in the situation where from one point of view is 21 years girl in Ukraine, and from other point of view here, next to him the doctor, who is actually paying for his services… I mean can you really imagine this situation?
  5. In case you actually imagined this situation and you said “Yes, Katie, you still have to do that.” (Just, Marisa, be fare). Who gets marry and thinks of divorce? I guess if the situation is normal, so nobody. But my fiancé keeps mentioning that “if we divorce” and it’s really weird for me… I mean I’m questioning myself why he is so concerned? What is the reason for that? From your point of view – it’s because he had bad experience. May be… But there flew a lot of water since they separated, so if he keeps thinking that it happens to him again – he shouldn’t marry never again. No, if he is afraid of me divorcing him so here are 2 options:
  a. he wants to keep me because he knows that I left everything for him: my parents, school, friends, country, future career and I have no choice just to be with him…
  b. he will not try to keep me… he will think: “Well, it didn’t work out… So what? At least I didn’t lose anything”…
  I mean both options are fantastic and worth doing for me…
  Well, and on the top of all this let’s be 100% opened to each other. Yes, I’m 21 (actually will be in a few days), but people say that I’m very mature for my age. All my friends are older than me. In University I like better speak to my professors, not to the students. I hate conversations that young people have. Those conversations about sex, shopping, cars are crazy and “kiddish”. I love fashion and I dress very attractive. Yes guys are looking at me with some admiration, but as my one professor-friend said “they are afraid to come to you because they know they are not even close to you. They know that you are the smartest student in a school, you have President Scholarship, that you are the only one from your town having the achievements you did and continue doing, every professor talks to you as to equal, so the only chance they can become your friends is if they ask you to help them. Here appears another problem, that you
  1. don’t really like stupid people
  2. you hate to be used.
  I don’t live in a big city. Small town around 30 thousand people. Everyone knows everyone. And to be honest normally I can communicate only with mature and smart people that don’t live in a fairy tale. So, that’s why I’ve chosen this man because he is educated, which is extremely important for me. Also he is mature and smart. But also he is not that crazy as me. He will not run around doing all these things that I’m doing like participating in all kinds of activities, doing everything not “perfect”, but “the best”. And here the most amazing thing is that I don’t need to be paid for that, but someone has to say that it was good job and I did great…. If person treats me good – I will never hurt that person. But if I feel that someone wants to put me down, to create the situation where I have no choice - I will not let it happen.
  When we are on vacation I want to do everything. I’m in the city for 3 days, but whatever I see in the book I want to go everywhere… And I know this is not right. To put someone like me next to me. There will be war…. Disaster. That’s why I know that my fiancé is perfect for me. Because he can calm me down, and I know in few years it will be fine.
  He is concerned about my beauty. To be honest if you look at me, you will never say: “Oh, she is beautiful”, but there is something that attracts guys. They all give me 8, if Jessica Alba is 10. I mean but I’m among that people that don’t look at beauty. I mean I don’t what guy who is 10, because it’s definitely nothing to talk with him about. My fiancé I will honestly give 6, if talking how good he looks for his age – 7. But that’s good. I don’t think that will be able to find a guy with 7 and as mature as he is.
  But he doesn’t trust me and here is the key for everything. He didn’t trust me enough to say right away about his citizenship, only after 4 month we knew each other and planned out wedding. He didn’t trust me that I’m sitting at home all the time and literally not seeing here anyone, and he used to go out with other women. He didn’t trust me know when I say that I will not divorce him. That’s not my intention. So, what he wants is to protect himself. If something – so he is the winner any way. And I’m the looser any way. So, in particularly this situation, Marisa, not in general, but particularly hear what do you think I have to sign the documents and take such a big chance or he has to come to the realization that I’m not deceiver and everything was the way he wanted. So here is one thing that I want to be my way. And forget about all those named reasons. In fact the reason is ONE: I think that I’m worth getting marry without the prenup. I’m not from the street, I don’t want to repeat what I did for him, I have perfect family hear and no reasons to leave everything, just one to be with him…
  
  P.S. You asked me how I’m coming if he can not to apply for bride visa – the respond is with student visa. I applied to college. And that’s another my “immolation” for him – just because I don’t know when I will have a chance to come to visit my family or to leave the USA. Do you really think it’s all that easy?
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  Marisa Wrightposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  There's your answer, then, Katie. Go as a student, on your own steam. Don't get married to him - instead, spend time with him and get to know him better. Whether you live with him is your own decision, dependent on your own views on that matter.
  
  If you are too scared to go to the States again on your own as a student, then whatever you say about being "mature", you are not mature enough to get married. Being too scared to stand on your own two feet, without family or partner, is a sign of immaturity.
  
  As for the prenup - yes, I understand you can't afford a lawyer. So why don't you tell him that you will consider it, if he pays for your legal advice? If he's serious, he'll do that.
  
  Try talking to some divorced people. They will tell you - no matter how much "water under the bridge" there has been, you never forget the lessons you learn from a divorce. Once you have been through it, you can never go into another relationship with 100% certainty, ever again - even if it's 20 years later. That's a fact. You don't like it, don't marry a divorced person.
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  Katie4everposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Dear Marisa,
  
  This year I can not go there because there should be financial statement from a bank that I have sufficient amount of money on my bank account. My parents can not afford that and I don't really want them to do that. If I go this year to the USA I will lose 2 years. In America they do not except my degree if I go and finance myself. This year I plan to apply to win grant to go and study in the USA in this case grant pays for whatever school I chose, I won't depend on anyone because I'll have my scholarship and they except my Degree. So, in fact, I will go to the USA to get Master's. But noone wants already to check if something can work or not. If I'll go there - so just for me. To see if that is what I want.
  
  Scare, Marisa, I'll be scare next year too in terms of living alone. But I won't be scare in terms of financial situation. If I win grant - I'll definitely take a chance and come to the USA, but if I won't, so I don't want my fate depended on someone I can't trust.
  
  <<<As for the prenup - yes, I understand you can't afford a lawyer. So why don't you tell him that you will consider it, if he pays for your legal advice? If he's serious, he'll do that.>>>
  
  Well there is nothing to talk here about. Everything is ended already. But just try to imagine this situation. I'm thousands of kilometers away talking to a lawyer on a phone who gonna determine not only my fate, but my future children too. And my opponent will be sitting next to lawyer and paying for lawyer's services. I mean the situation is really worth doing.
  
  In terms of "not getting married to divorced" - I took it already to a considerations. As, of course, don't marry if there are kids already. And of course, marry someone who is equal to me.
  
  Thanks, Marisa, your advices really helped.
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  Marisa Wrightposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Katie,
  
  You mentioned that part of the reason for posting here was to understand the culture. I've been trying to explain the culture but I feel you're not listening.
  
  In America, about 40% of marriages end in divorce. Unlike many other countries, people generally marry for love, so nearly 100% of those couples were in love, and married intending to stay together forever.
  
  The first time we marry, even knowing those statistics, most people think, "ah, but we are different! We are so blissfully happy, divorce will never happen to us."
  
  As we get older, we discover that's not true. Even if our own marriage is happy, we see many of our friends divorce. We learn from experience, that even marriages which seem perfect can - and do - go wrong.
  
  That makes us more careful. It doesn't mean we don't trust our new husband or wife, or that we don't love them. We do. We want the relationship to last with all our hearts, and we are prepared to work at it. That doesn't mean we close our eyes to reality.
  
  It's like going on a round-the-world-cruise. You set out in expectation that it will all go well and that you'll come home safely, and you plan to make the very best of every moment - but you still take out travel insurance, just in case.
  
  If two people enter a relationship on roughly equal terms, that "travel insurance" may just consist of keeping your finances separate. But if one party is much richer than the other, it may need a prenup.
  
  A prenup is not about penalising anyone, it's about each side preserving their own assets. If you have no assets going in, you have none at the end - what's unfair about that? Expecting to get some financial gain if there's a divorce implies you gave something up to get married, whereas in fact, the opposite is likely to be true: I assume he would pay for all your living expenses, and perhaps your college fees, so you would do very well out of being married to him.
  
  If you're worried about being thrown out of the house, penniless, then he can do that even without a prenup - and the only way you'll get money out of him is to go to court (and he'll be able to afford a better lawyer than you!). If you sign a prenup, you can include a clause that requires him to give you money for a hotel and the air fare home, at the very least.
  
  It's all material to bear in mind for future relationships. There are many divorced men out there who would make a wonderful partner, so don't write them off - just learn to be understanding of how other people feel, and how their culture and life experience has shaped their attitudes.
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  Katie4everposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  That was very funny... I mean Marisa, I wouldn't wish it to my biggest enemy. To wait for money for hotel and ticket back from the man with whom it didn't work out... I mean are you serious? Here you woke me up... Here I realized where I am... for you... and for him...
  
  For some reason you are the only one who thinks this way...
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  Marisa Wrightposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  So spell it out for me, what do you expect this man to give you if the marriage doesn't work out?
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knolyourselfposted 16 years ago
Agree with everything said. But just to clarify the prenup.
Used to know a guy that married a non-US citizen woman from some east block country, and she had two kids. No sooner married than she divorced, and accused him of
spousal and child abuse. So the cheapest way he could
get out of it was to settle, by giving her a house and cash
worth in excess $600,000. So there are reasons for prenups, unless just say - ah he was guilty.
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  Katie4everposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Right, this woman has two kids and she wanted reinsure herself that there will be no abuse. And there was. And he payed as you said "the cheapest " price. He had another choice - to go to jail. Why he didn't do that? May be because all he can just hurt someone and he doesn't want to be hurt?
  
  In my situation I can not be sure that I won't be abused. So, without the prenup at least I'll have some protection.
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MrMarmaladeposted 16 years ago
I guess you are looking for someone to tell you what to do.
From fifty years of marriage;
ask yourself two questions do you want company at any price?
Do you want a relationship for six moths or forever?
Perhaps you should ask another question of yourself.
Are your parents rich or not.
Perhaps this gentleman has more money than sense. Maybe he likes to flaunt his wealth
If it upsets you about him spending $15,000 on his daughter, what will it be like when he buys a car for $200,000?
How will you cope with that one?
Put on your skates and leave now, not latter when you have no where to go.
This situation from what you are describing is not going to work for you.
In your words you are naive and he sounds very worldly againt yourself.
Do you you know what older children of a previous marriage are like?
If his duaghter dislikes you now, what will she be like once you are married?
Leave now!
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  Katie4everposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for your post, but I'm not looking for someone what to do. All I'm looking for are some advices or opinions of my situation. I'm going from a different society and may be I don't understand something. All these responds and questions give me the full picture of this situation.
  
  I answered on your questions:
  
  If I want a company at any price? No, not at all. I think I have enough reasons to have a company that I'll be happy with an not at any price. Because if there appear "little something new", so I don't want to end up on a street.
  
  Do I want a relationship for six moths or forever? Definitely forever. That's why I'm here discussing these issues.
  
  Are my parents rich or not? For Ukraine I would say middle class. They both are working doctors, but in Ukraine doctors are not paid that good as in the USA. We have house, car, some savings, but we can not compare Ukrainian salaries and earnings to the USA's.
  
  <<<If it upsets you about him spending $15,000 on his daughter, what will it be like when he buys a car for $200,000?>>> For his daughter a car for 200,000$? I'll be upset because he wants to buy me a car for 10 K.
  
  <<<If his duaghter dislikes you now, what will she be like once you are married?>>> That's my concern too. And I told him that it worries me,but he insured me that everything will be fine. Once she will know me better she will love me. Of course, I'm not sure. She is very overprotected of his father. And I understand her why. First of all he used to date women that I would consider as lower than him. Older, not educated. Now they look at my picture and they are shocked. They also know about my background and my achievements, so I guess they questioning themselves what is there that she wants to marry him. And I just love him... And I wanted to have a family. From other point of view, of course, she doesn't want to lose father, as her mother is waitress, so girl is smart enough to keep father and to treat him good. But to be honest, I feel sorry for him.
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trish1048posted 16 years ago
Hello again Katie,

Do you know why his marriage ended? Do you know for sure he is truly divorced? You mention his ex is a waitress. Do you know what, if anything, she received from the divorce? Nothing, perhaps? How long were they married?

I had a situation myself,,,met a guy online, talked for TWO years, met, dated and lived together for TWO more years. Then he left, no note, no warning, just gone. He had told me he was divorced, well, I came to find out, too late of course, that he was NOT divorced, only separated. Also, after talking to his brother, found out he was a patholocical liar. He always had an answer for everything. When I found out, I thought, wow, was I that naive? Was I that stupid?? No, he was such a good liar that not only did he have me fooled, but had my friends/family fooled as well.

That's why I question everything you say about this man. He has half-grown children. Part of the reason he may be afraid of losing you is because he has had no success with any of the other women he was with. How do you know what the other women he dated were like? How do you know they were 'beneath' him? uneducated? because he told you that? and older than him, so what? He is 40+ himself. Why is he dating someone half his age? So he can have better control, like he appears to have over his daughter? Do you want to be a wife? or another child? His marriage failed, and so have other relationshps prior to you. There must be a reason,,,,could it be they couldn't deal with the scrutiny from his daughter? His daughter sounds like she's keeping daddy for a meal ticket. Her mom can't afford to give her what he can, monetarily no doubt. What about unconditional love? Does she even have a relationship with her mom? If not, why not? What about the other sibling? Where does he/she fit in this picture, as you only mention the daughter.
Also, you mentioned several times that you are naive. Yes, I agree that you are, but I also think you have SERIOUS concerns and DOUBTS, and I also believe that you, in your heart of hearts, KNOW this is NOT the man you should give your life to, and that you are looking for reassurance that you are making the right decision. TRUST your gut! It is ALWAYS right!

Patty
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  Katie4everposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Darling, Patty, I’m so sorry for the situation you were in. I’m sure it was horrible. I know that feeling when you find out that the person you love and trust actually lies you. But I think it’s not this situation. He is divorced, and I know that for sure. What kind of women he used to date I’m also aware of. About his daughter I don’t know anything for sure. It just looks like this. Once I was talking to him on the phone. His kids were visiting him (they are coming every weekend) and he started talking to them. I told him that you sound, guys, so lovely that you probably don’t need me there. And boy (that I actually like. He reminds me my fiancé) said that they do. They need woman there. And his daughter said “No. Not at all”. Of course I made a big deal of that. But then he insured me that he knows his daughter better and I have to be extremely good to her. I tried to talk to her. I wrote her a letter praying her to give me a chance to be with their father. He respond was like “Ok. Let it be. BUT everything depends on me. If I will be good – so everything will be good, if I’ll be bad – so bad.” So, actually, she gave me her “OK”, but I have also very strong character. Since I was in 1 grade I was a leader, so I don’t really think that I’ll be that patient if she starts putting me down. And here I think that the way she treats me is his fault. Because he could influence my opinion and I changed my mind and wrote nice letter, so why he doesn’t influence her opinion? And situation like this were few times. He told me that he wants to have one good family. He wants his kids to be a part of the family and when they will be older they’ll come and visit us. They will feel comfortable in our house. But why he doesn’t explain this to daughter? They both state that actually everything depends on me. And if I will treat them good so everything will be great. But he doesn’t want to understand that actually she also has to make some affords to make our relationship better. Right?
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trish1048posted 16 years ago
Oops! I spelled pathological incorrectly,,,I didn't realize you can't edit these comments before publishing. Oh well,,next time I'll preview
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RFoxposted 16 years ago
You also said he's cheating on you. Am I the only one who saw that post?

He is a dishonest person. Do not marry a dishonest person. It will only get you into trouble.
If you choose to stay with your family it sounds like you have a good life ahead, if you marry him it sounds like you will be in for a rough time. Don't do it, would be my advice.

You said you couldn't be in the States by yourself because you were scared.

In my opinion no-one should get married until they have the confidence to be on their own. Being on your own will give you strength you never knew you had and then when you meet a man you will have the confidence to ensure you get what you need from a relationship.

If you lack confidence in a relationship, certain men will take advantage of you. He sounds like he is taking advantage of you.

End it now before it's too late. If you are educated you will have plenty of opportunity to move to other countries for good reasons.
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  Katie4everposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, darling, you read everything correctly. And that's the truth. I don't know if it's right time to talk about the religion, but I strongly believe in God. He really helps me in my life and sends me right people that help me a lot. So, that was February 14... Valentines Day. We planned to spend it unforgettable. And it definitely was unforgettable. Before that day we spent a few days together and of course his cell-phone was always on a table or anywhere that I could check what is there. So, now we were sitting in a restaurant having dinner. I was a virgin and I planned that evening to become his woman. and one sec I took his cell-phone to see something. I think that there was some power actually guiding me. I don't remember what I wanted to find there, but next minute I saw first message in the Inbox: "I also enjoyed out evening. It was great. My e-mail is... " Anna. Of course I run away of the restaurant. And later he told me that yes. He was dating other women because he is a man. Also sometimes when I find out something like this I'm getting frustrated and I used to tell him that I want to end the relationship. So every time something was shaky between us he was looking for a better match. Exactly better match. You know, I can be naive and I'm naive. But I know that he is a man that has some desires. Until that time we didn't have sex, so I won't be that surprise if he just go to some place and just does what he needs there. But there are no massages after that. There no massages with words "too, also, etc". That means that first he text her and she responded. Yes.. and I forgot to say the main thing. Actually, he was looking for a better match. eharmony.com. He didn't think that I'm good match for him, so while telling me where will be the wedding or where to buy dress he was dating other women.
  
  I don't want to say what happened to me next days. I was very sick. I don’t remember me being that sick and weak at all.
  
  Then I went back to my country and he to his. I thought that's the end. But when my train was leaving the platform he was crying and I was crying too...
  
  I didn’t think that I can forgive something like that. But I did. He ensured me that that will never repeat and that he didn’t expect that my reaction will be like this. But I was miserable and crushed. I’m very faithful and I can’t imagine myself tricking someone I love and I care for. I saw that he really regrets about that and I forgave…
  
  I don't regret that he was my first man. I wished it was the only, but I believe that God knows what is there waiting for me and he guides me...
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eswarposted 16 years ago
Hi, Dear,
Your situation is very simple, forget him immediately. Love is nothing but understanding and sharing between two souls, without claiming that this is mine this is yours. once when such a question of signing a prenuptial agreement started it is very clear still he is able to see himself seperate and it is very clear that he will not hesitate a moment when the thought of divorce comes in his mind. You are too young when compared to him and there is no need for you to go begging for life for everything he says and asks, he is not the last male available on earth, and life's bliss does not rely much only on wealth. Don't keep on saying that he is still on your mind, rub him away , he even does not deserve to remember.
trish1048 has given you a wonderful answer with a lot of points, and i feel that is a good one.
If you still keep it through then i am sure this is not Love, for you and for him leave alone him he already proved it.
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  Katie4everposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Hello Eswar. Thank you for your nice post. I agree with you for 100%. These are the words I strongly believe in:
  ***Love is nothing but understanding and sharing between two souls, without claiming that this is mine this is yours. once when such a question of signing a prenuptial agreement started it is very clear still he is able to see himself seperate and it is very clear that he will not hesitate a moment when the thought of divorce comes in his mind. You are too young when compared to him and there is no need for you to go begging for life for everything he says and asks, he is not the last male available on earth, and life's bliss does not rely much only on wealth. ***
  
  May be because of the way I was raised, may be just because I'm too romantic, may be too young and naive. But may I ask you how old are you? Why do you think this way? You are also 20 (in few days turning 21 :-))? I don't think so.
  
  I decided. No, we both decided to give it time. No rush. he keeps telling me that I have to call the attorney and consult the attorneys. And I keep saying that I'm not going to do that in these circumstances.
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RFoxposted 16 years ago
I can only give my opinion based on what you have written.
Based on what you have written it seems clear that HE IS NOT TREATING YOU WELL.

Cheaters always say "I'll never do it again". He has been actively deceiving you the entire time. And the reasons he gives you for his divorce may not be the truth. The only person aside from him that knows the truth is his ex-wife. How do you she didn't leave because he treated her poorly? You only have his words for why his marriage ended and considering how much he has lied to you, that doesn't mean much.

You are young and inexperienced with men. Please listen to those of us with experience so you don't make a big mistake!

It is great to be a romantic. I am one also. But you have to be a realist as well.

You are very intelligent, you have doubts and you know deep inside that he is wrong for you, you just don't want to admit it. You say you are a strong person and it comes through in your writing, so be strong and END IT.

That is all I have to say on this matter. It sounds harsh but you seem like a nice person and I don't like nice people being hurt and used. If you marry him, you will regret it and then things will be really difficult.

Another man will come into your life, a man who will love you unconditionally, no matter what. He won't lie to you, he will be faithful to you and he will love you for you.

Don't settle!
Take care of yourself.
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RFoxposted 16 years ago
One more thing: A man who truly loves you will not have sex with anyone else if you have made it clear you want monogamy.

Men have desires, they also have self control if they truly love someone.

There are many men who are naturally monogamous and are happy to be with one woman only.
You just have to find the man who is right for you. Good luck.
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Marisa Wrightposted 16 years ago
I've already pointed out that I think some of your concerns about this man are unfair, but I'm also worried about your feelings.

It is still not a reason to love him. It is a reason to think, "this is a more sensible partner to make my life with." but really, you'd be better to hold out: the man you should marry is a guy with "very many good qualities, values and beliefs" who ALSO knows how to earn money. And you will find him one day.

That's my opinion, too. It is a very, very bad thing for a woman to go from the safety of her family to the safety of a man. You will never learn to be yourself. Then if the marriage goes wrong, you will be too scared to leave and you will be trapped in the marriage until you can find another man to "rescue" you. You need to learn to be independent. Then you can meet men on more equal terms and choose a mate because you love him, not because you need a security blanket.

If you're too scared to go back to the States on your own, then you're not ready to get married. You're not an adult yet.

This is also true. However, you also need to think back to the time he was "sleeping around". Had you discussed your relationship? Is it possible you assumed it was serious at that point, but you hadn't talked about it? He may not have thought there was any future in it. If that's the case, then you can't blame him for continuing his search. However, if you had already been talking in terms of love and marriage, you have every right to be upset and, in my opinion, you should not forgive him - you should take it as a warning for the future.
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trish1048posted 16 years ago
All these things for him are just "little something".

Hi Katie,,,,,,that statement above? You mention that a lot. I don't want to burst your bubble, but these 'little somethings' as you call them are NOT LITTLE. They are BIG somethings.

As I mentioned, lying, cheating, possessive, jealous, controlling,,,,are just a few words that come to mind.

I've been down this road you're traveling not once, but twice. Prior to the relationship I told you about, I had gotten involved with a man I knew from childhood, we reconnected several years after our spouses died. So, we dated, moved in together, and even got engaged. It didn't last, because the man I knew when I was young was no longer the man I was with as an adult. In the beginning it was nice, but then his REAL self came out. He was possessive, controlling, and I found myself lying in bed saying to myself, I cannot live with this man, I am NOT going to give up who I am for him or anyone. I ended it, and am so glad I did. I can also tell you, had I married him, I would want for nothing, I would have had a brand new house, new car, and I wouldn't have had to work. BUT, I would have LOST ME. He didn't like any time I spent away from him, whether it was getting my hair done, food shopping, even so far as to read a book. He wanted all the attention.

I don't know what else to say to you Katie. All of these nice people who have responded to you have put their hearts into their words. You sound like a lovely, smart, young woman. And you still have a lot of growing up to do. You may be very intellectually smart, but it sounds like you go with your feelings more than your intellect. Also, I think you are falling into that trap that a lot of women fall into, and that is, thinking with their heart, not the intelligence God gave them.

It also seems to me that the opinions voiced here are all pretty much in favor of your NOT taking the relationship any further. IF, and that is a HUGE IF, you continue to see this man, I would take a longggggggg hard look at everything that goes on in the relationship from here forward. Keep a journal. List pros/cons. I believe you will find, over time, that the cons will far outweigh the pros. My only wish for you is that you do not make this relationship legal anytime soon.

I will be watching your story as it unfolds, and will pray you make the right decision.

Patty
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Zarm Nefilinposted 16 years ago
My advice would be for you to stay away from him.

If you are ukrainian and are religious then you are most likely either A. Orthodox or B. Eastern rite Catholic

I myself am an atheistic agnostic but I would highly suggest you find a clergy member (related to your particular belief system) to talk to about this matter , a liberal one preferably as there won't be so much of an emphasis on the "sin" involved and instead more emphasis on the "reality checking" you need now that this guy has messed with you.

I think he and you are both confused as well as your parents.

The best thing to do to avoid the confusion is to talk to a clergyman immediately. Find a Church that is within your particular Orthodox or Eastern Rite Catholic belief system, find a priest who speak your ukrainian language, take the spiritual or dogma advice light heartedly and listen very carefully what he reccomends for you to do.

Sometimes it helps best for people to open themselves up to people they know they can trust.

Please do this for yourself Katie, I think you could stand to benefit a lot from it.

Also chances are if he is spending all that money on you then you are probably a very beautiful young woman so do not allow other men who have a sexual or possible interest in you romance with you while you are trying to extricate yourself from the relationship as they may very well try to take advantage of you inadvertently.

Keep your head clear as much as you can and think hard about it as much as you can and go with your gut.

Goodluck
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  Katie4everposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you I was thinking about this. I am Catholic. But he is an atheist. He doesn't believe in God. That's another "little something". But let's don't blame him. You all hear only one point of view. I e-mailed to him this link and he thinks that some things I said incorrectly. I presented something not right. Like he is not spending 15 K on her simple BD, but like "sweat 16". So, I asked him to participate in those conversations and state his point of view. May be than you will change your mind and all together will say that I JUST HAVE to SIGN the prenup. I don't know if he is going to post hear or not. But to be honest whatever I wrote hear everything 100 % is the truth, but, of course, from my point of view.
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SweetiePieposted 16 years ago
Everyone gave good advice so far. However, all I can suggest is does he make you happy? Right now it sounds as if you are a little sad because he is being a little harsh toward you it sounds like. The book called He Is Just Not That Into You really helped me with a similar situation in the past. I was not getting married, but I was dating a man who continually made me feel sad. Greg Berhendt was a very insightful writer and he points out that even if we are madly in love with a man, he is just not that into us if he treats us in a way that makes us feel sad. It sounds like you do not want to have to sign a prenup, so maybe if he pushes too much that is your answer. This book and another one he wrote with his wife It Is Called a Breakup Because It is Broken are both wonderful and Insightful. Greg's current wife Amira had been married to a man before who made her feel sad, but she was not doing anything wrong. To me the best solutions are when I read books and have time to think. The wonderful thing about books is they are free at the local library, and libraries are wonderful tools for all. During relaxing reading sessions I am always able to gather my feelings and decide what the best move is next. Good luck and God bless you .
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  Katie4everposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you, dear. In fact, I really love reading books, so I'll get that one to read too. I really need it now. I need to know how to live with the realization that everything is ended. Well, he broke our relationship forever. I asked him to think about it, but he is sure that we shouldn't be together and it's better to move on. So, thank you, guys, for all your advices. I tried to give time to this situation, do not to rush and do not make the mistakes. But whatever is done - is done. I can not agree with the conditions he offered me. In fact, he is wonderful guy and I'm sure he will be happy. And I just need time to heal my heart and continue being normal Katie.
  
  I'm sure I'll continue communicating with you, as I found here really interesting people. Thank you for everything again. God bless you...
  
  Everything will be fine...
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Katie4everposted 16 years ago
Yes... I forgot to say... Actually I'm reading one book that helps me to understand that we are just not compatible. It's *Date... or Soul Mate? by Neil Clark Warren, Ph.D*. And the funniest thing is that he gave me this book. Hopefully he will follow this advices and finds the right person.
I really wish him this. It's not like everything was bad, just when you are not happy with something. No matter what others positive qualities person has - you will be concern about that negative that actually bothers you. Don't you think so? Or when you are not happy with something your spouse does you are telling him how much you love him, or what a wonderful qualities he has, or you love him even if he does something that you can't just stay?
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SweetiePieposted 16 years ago
Your positive attitude will take your far .
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Betty Jo Pettyposted 16 years ago
I read most of this. I did skip some parts for the time.

I suggest you read as much psychology as possible. If you can talk to people who know these things.

Search (google, or whatever similar) the word Sociopath.

A sociopath is expert at making people think they are really so very nice, but when you get to know them, you can get badly surprised.

They control people. Things must be the way they want. Please give this some consideration.

If not a sociopath, there might be something you could learn, going the psychology way.

This person has lots of problems, even if he might have some money.

I remember being a naive young girl. Now I'm not. I made some bad decisions. I hope you do not.

My mother died when I was only fourteen-years-old. My dad moved away and remarried, right away. I lived with my grandmother.

I did not have loving parents to try to help me. I hope you will realize your parents Love you, and are trying to help you.

Also, they could be saving you from some great unhappiness, and possible harm.

How about if you concern yourself with your studies, and decide to wait for the Big Romance of your life?

My daughter is almost twenty-two with two little boys already. You don't want children already, do you?

Also, you need to be checked out to make sure you have no diseases. They are very rampant in the United States. Some, if you don't get checked to find out, can remain dormant for many years.

Please, get a physical exam as soon as possible. Those other women may have had many partners, with diseases spreading quickly.

Yes, you do need someone to care for and about you. Let it begin in yourself. Let your parents care. Go to school, and smile at those nice Young men there.

Betty Jo
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  Katie4everposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks Dear, for giving me advices. In terms of "visiting doctor", I did that already. My both parents are doctors, so it's just the way I was raised. Always make sure there is nothing there.
  
  When I read your question about your daughter I didn't understand it. I thought what's wrong with that? If at age of 22 being married and have 2 little boys and be happy I mean, I don't mind doing that. But then I read what was the real question. No, of course, I don't want to have 2 kids and raise them without father. I'm sorry for your daughter and for you. But life is zebra. It has white and black strips. So, I'm sure in some period everything will change in better way.
  
  You know, I like one Bible's Solomon proverb. There is one really good about the ring. I'm sorry I was reading it on my language that's why I don't want to translate incorrectly. But the plot about ring where was written: "It won't last forever". So there were good years, everyone lived in luxury and he read the sign on a ring, so he saved some food for bad years. Now in 7 years came difficult years. He also didn't live in luxury, but he saved something for bad days, so it was better. Then 1 day he was sitting and thinking about difficulty of those days, he already was loosing hope, and at 1 sec he read a sign again "It won't last forever". So, he survived those years and very soon there was good life again.
  
  Of course we are not talking right now to collect food or money. But every situation doesn't last forever. I wish you, your daughter and grandchildren the best of luck and everything gonna be fine. They are cute, I mean boys, aren't they? I just love children.
  
  Now, in terms of sociopath. Probably, that's my mistake. I presented only his mistakes. In fact he is very good person, father, son, and even boss. So that is definitely not about him. He did some mistakes. Who didn't? I also did. I was very strict with him, I also criticized him a lot. So, I'm also not perfect. If it didn't work out between him and me it doesn't mean that he is bad. He did very many good things for me and I'm thankful for everything that happened between us. For good - that made me happy and bad - that made me stronger.
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Lifebydesignposted 16 years ago
I've kinda been following this and here's my two cents for you- Katie you say that's another 'little something'. How many little somethings are cropping up? Will they add up to a great big deal afterwards? Or something you can live with?
Also 'don't blame him'- I agree, don't. You're the one in the situation and you're the only one who can change it for you meaning that whatever choices he makes, those consequences are his. But whatever choices YOU make, those consequences are yours. What will be the consequences if you go ahead, and what would be the consequences if you didn't? If it helps write down on a piece of paper the pros and cons of the choices you're deciding between.

In your heart of hearts I suspect you know deep down what to do and what's really truly right for you. Perhaps though you're worried about what would happen if you took one route versus another. Committing one way or the other without being certain of the outcome, especially when its a new situation calls for a dash of courage, some self-belief and a positive 'just do it' kind of thinking. Ask yourself, what's best for you?
It's helpful to dialogue with people and seek out info and resources - as long as you don't allow it to become procrastination. Make some time to dialogue with you and when you get a quiet moment try these questions for yourself and answer them with as much detail as you can (again writing helps):
What would happen to you if you did?
what would happen if you didn't? then
What wouldn't happen to you if you didn't? and
what wouldn't happen to you if you did?

P.S Here's how you'll know when you've made the right choice (for you, not for anyone else) - you'll feel scared but the relief will be
awesome. Plus you will feel light, excited rather than fearful or anxious, and with not a shred of dread.
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  Katie4everposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you, dear, for you advice. I do that. I started this topic not for people to make a decisions for me, but to understand the culture. May be in the USA everyone marries just with "reinsurance". Or may be I'm not right. Like Marisa states that if I want to marry him I have to sign the documents. But that's the point... I got it...
  
  Also "little something" personaly for me are big deals. That's for him are "little something".
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trish1048posted 16 years ago
Hi Katie,
Well, after reading all of this, I'm beginning to wonder why you're here. It seems no matter what people are telling you, even though you claim to be not quite sure what to do, I feel as though you have already made your mind up. I say that because no matter what's been said, you keep going back to the 'nice' things he did, or does. You keep defending him, which tells me you intend to go forward with this man, regardless of other opinions to the contrary.
So, I don't know if it's a matter of you trying to convince yourself the situation will work out, or you're just being self-delusional.
Which is it?

Patty
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  Katie4everposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Hi Patty,
  
  Dear, everything is simple. Everything is over. And honestly I won't feel better if I will be thinking only about his bad actions. Instead of this I'll try to keep in my memories positive things that we had and I know that he is wonderful person who did some mistakes. Who didn't? But we are nobody to judge him. And let's already finish with him.
  
  I'd like to concentrate on me...
  
  Thank you, Patty
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Betty Jo Pettyposted 16 years ago
I meant you would not want children without the marriage.

Yes, my daughter is doing well and moving on. She has been fortunate to have help with her
(yes, cute and adorable and mischievous boys) little sons.

I wrote a Hub a bit about this. She had her first at sixteen, second at seventeen. Teenage Pregnancy.

Lots of girls are left all alone when left with a baby. Even some parents don't want to help them, and some suggest abortion.

Possibly the man may not be any of the words I suggested. I just think all people should know more about psychology.

It helps you be more aware of things people might have, that we need to watch for. Not just for the men in our lives, but also people we might work with or shop with, or be friends with.

Good luck to you. Let us hear from you on HubPages. Maybe you can write Hubs for other young women.
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Zarm Nefilinposted 16 years ago
Your situation was founded on dishonesty from your partner Katie. I suggest you see a priest (as you have stated you are a catholic) who speaks your ukrainian language and is knowledgeable about such matters. Try to find someone who will not even bring up the "sin" aspect but focus instead more on the psychological aspects like for instance how this man has been dishonest with you from day one and is making a big deal about a pre nuptial agreement and what not. It doesn't really matter imo that you are having a pre marital engagement with this man, what matters is that you are being decieved by someone who is dishonest (for whatever other merits he may have).

I myself am atheistic agnostic but nonetheless I recommend you get to a priest and talk this over immediately. You are in love and sometimes it helps to go to sources we trust (us humans) because they can help ground us in reality.

You are not grounded in reality and your perception has been comprimised, get to a priest or a good friend who you can talk this out with and who has some understanding of psychology.
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Betty Jo Pettyposted 16 years ago
I totally agree with this.

Being 'in love' even from a distance, makes us unable to think clearly.

Use the strength in you and do this. What could it hurt? You would talk to a priest before getting married, wouldn't you?

Write everything down you can thing of, all sides and take with you. It might help to take your mother, father, both or a really good friend for support.

Go see your priest. You must remember only you can actually take care of yourself. You do need help for strength to live.
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Mishaposted 16 years ago
I can't say I read all what was written here - but I definitely skimmed through it. This is ongoing for several days now, and I can't help but feeling something unnatural is going on over here. I don't believe the girl. I can't really outline why, but I don't. I don't know why she is doing this either.

Just my humble opinion, and proceed at your own risk
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  Katie4everposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  what you don't believe? facts that I wrote? that just tells that it's unbelievable to believe... what she is doing? I mean as person who is respected here I expected from you some post that has some sense; not whatever just to say something. may you explain your opinion? or you have some gift to feel "right things"? :-)
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Mishaposted 16 years ago
Based on your interaction on this thread for the last several days I have a feeling that your story is a fake - that's it.

I may be wrong of course - but this is how I feel.
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  Sally's Troveposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Misha, I am in your camp as well. The syntax seems all wrong. Staged.
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trish1048posted 16 years ago
Hi Patty,

Dear, everything is simple. Everything is over. And honestly I won't feel better if I will be thinking only about his bad actions. Instead of this I'll try to keep in my memories positive things that we had and I know that he is wonderful person who did some mistakes. Who didn't? But we are nobody to judge him. And let's already finish with him.

I'd like to concentrate on me...

Are you finished with him? as you state above?
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trish1048posted 16 years ago
I spy with my big blue eye a rat in the woodpile. Very pathetic to have to make up a story to get attention, and I'm sorry I fell for it.
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Marisa Wrightposted 16 years ago
I wondered too, but I'd hate to assume and leave a genuine person without advice. I'm sure it's been entertaining for some people if nothing else!
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RUTHIE17posted 16 years ago
OK--Boy, am I glad that someone thinks this thread smells fishy!

I agree that the syntax is all wrong sometimes. Like whoever this is starts typing in perfect English and then remembers to be a poor little girl from the Ukrain or some where! And if this is all the better her English and typing is--how did she hold down a front desk job in NYC?
Were her professors at college letting her get away with papers written in broken English?

I really think this is a put-on and we all fell for it! If I'm wrong I apoligize, but I don't think I am.
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Katie4everposted 16 years ago
What I can say? My relationship is over. Do you really think I have nothing to do just type here all these? But as I said before all those posts mean that it's hard to believe it's true. And there is nothing to regret about.

I wish you all the best of luck. To be honest as my rule #1 is. I wanted to create some hubs on a topic "How to move when you know it's over", "How to survive after broken relationship", but I was afraid of my English. Also my ex is reading all these.So, I didn't want him feel uncomfortable here. Now I simply don't want to be here... I met some good people here, who have warm heart... But as everywhere there is positive and negative side.

Be happy, good bye
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RUTHIE17posted 16 years ago
And because "she" has now got caught, "she" slowly and sadly, walks off into the sunset never to be heard from again! Give me a break! There's a sucker born every minute and I think we all just got snookered!
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trish1048posted 16 years ago
LOL Ruthie,,looks like the 'script' got a little difficult. Sure would be interesting to hear her 'ex's' side of the story. Doesn't matter where you're from, there is no set of instructions on how to end a relationship. Also, as I pointed out, no matter what any of us have said, Katie is always defending the 'ex', even in her 'final swan song'. Geeze,,,,

I echo Ruthie Katie, if wrong about this story, I'm sorry, but in this culture it is smelling 'fishy'.
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WPerez1000posted 16 years ago
To all: (sorry this message is a bit long, but insightful and interesting!!!)
This is Katie's fiance, Walter, before posting this message, I asked Katie if it was ok as I felt it will be intrusive on my part to post this message in her forum and she said to go ahead. I am taking this action because I really love her and I really do not want to lose her. I have read all your comments and I believe they are sincere and well intentioned. I can't help not feeling like a baseball pitcher, game tied on the bottom of the ninth, bases loaded and no body out!!! It is amazing to me how the responses correlate directly with the way a case is presented. I understand her, she is nervous and stress out about an upcoming marriage, moving to a new country, away from her family and starting a new life. I believe this is the reason why Katie presents herself literately as a victim, and this will naturally elicit the kind of responses provided. Even if I was not involved with her and I was just reading this, I would say exactly the same thing, LEAVE NOW. But the old proverb, "there are two sides to each story" could not prove more than true. Katie sent me a link to this forum and I read it patiently and just taking everything in, very painful, but I believe it is time to clarify and the tell my side of this story. But before addressing her comments, allow me to give you a brief history of myself.
I was born in El Salvador, due to a war, my family fled the country; I came to the USA at the age of 15, I did not speak English and had no concept of the educational system or customs in the USA, but with determination and perseverance, I got my doctorate degree in 1998. It was not easy and not without pain and sacrifices. At the age of 24, I felt in love with a beautiful wonderful girl from Mexico, she came from a conservative family and we wanted to be together, her parents demanded marriage, but at the time, I was applying for a green card through my mother, and if I got married, I would lose that chance and I was informed that it would take 5 more years for me to get the green card, we did not have that luxury so we married in Mexico and 5 years later I got my green card but I could not tell that I was married, in retrospect, I believe I exercised poor judgement on my part, but I was in love and I really wanted to marry that girl. This is the reason why I could have a problem applying for citizenship, but I was assured by an attorney Katie recommended that if my petition is decline, we will go to court and no judge is going to deport me due to my achievements and a clean criminal record, and citizenship should be granted. Her comment " he doesn't have a citizenship and he can not get citizenship because he wasn't honest with a law, Of course, I was shocked" at first it made me feel like I was some kind of criminal, a thief, or a rat, the only crime was that I was in love, and I did not hurt anyone or stole from anyone and never will. Also, when she says that she was shocked, it gives the impression that I just told her about this situation, the truth is that this is a very personal matter, and I wouldn't divulge this unless I felt comfortable, I never told my ex-girlfriends, in fact I never told anyone, but Katie, I felt it was necessary to share this with her, so 4 months after we met, I told her, and I believe the timing was reasonable. People do not usually divulge very personal things in their past until they really get to know their partner and sometimes it takes years. Well, I continue my quest towards becoming a doctor, it was extremely difficult, I had a family to support, I work almost full time and went to school full time. My ex-wife was used to a comfortable life, anything she wanted, her parents and older brothers(5) gave her, but with me, we were in a tight budget so it was very difficult for her. We grew apart and she could not handle the situation so she moved on, three months later I got news that she was pregnant, so any hopes of saving the marriage vanished, so a divorced was the next appropriate step. But that marriage produced two wonderful kids and they really are, honor students, Chloe made it to her H. S. musical as a freshman, Martin plays baseball and plays the tuba in a band and they both have second degree black belts, working on their 3rd degree. Anyway enough said. Katie worries about my daughter and I can understand that, my daughter has already given the ok to this relationship and she would like to meet Katie, and my daughter said "why can't she come for a few weeks to visit so that we(referring also to her brother) can meet her" but I explained to her that it is not easy for Katie to travel to the USA right now. Of course my daughter is overprotective of her father, it is only natural, and Katie related to me that she understands this and I believe Katie also wants a good relationship with my daughter. As for my daughter 15K birthday celebration, this is actually her Quincenera, equivalent to a sweet sixteen. Those of you who live in the USA know that a nice decent sweet sixteen celebration would probably run more than 15K, but to Katie this is outrageous, I know Katie is just jealous as she has admitted before, but in time Katie will understand the importance of a sweet sixteen celebration. If we have a daughter, I am sure Katie will spend equivalent to today's money much more than 15K. She will actually want a very lavish celebration.

In reference to the following comment: "As I said before my parents are very strict and religious and they didn't let me stay in the USA" I did not see it that way, her visa was expiring, her father was going to have surgery, so she really didn't have a choice. Their parents are not as strict as she portrays them, in fact they have accepted this relationship and support it. Her father took her willfully to the train station every time we met in Kiev or Budapest, and I always exchanged gifts with her parents, once they send me a nice Cossack. Her parents were enthusiastic and really looking forward to meeting me this weekend, but unfortunately, it will not happen, of course her parents feel bad, but Katie told me that they are staying out of it, they want us to work it out among's ourselves. But the following comment: " my parents are really angry on this entire situation and they don't want me to leave them, country and now especially in these circumstances" is really an exaggeration, if tomorrow, Katie and I reconcile, and I travel to her home town next week, her parents naturally will be skeptical, but they will be fine with my presence, and I really believe this, it is my gut feeling. "he'll abuse me or hurt me" It is sad that she feels that way, to date I have never abuse her or hurt her and never will, it just not in me. Sure we had arguments and we both said things that can hurt, but I do not think this is what she is referring to. I can provide her with my ex-girlfriends emails and she can contact them and ask them if I ever abuse them or hurt them, aside from the usual arguing in a relationship, the answer is NEVER. If I had those tendencies, I would had probably ended up in jail and I would not have my medical license.

The next comment: "And now, in 2 month I graduate from school and I'm about to go to the Embassy to get visa and he told me that he wants a prenuptial agreement. I was shocked. I didn't expect this" The fact is that we discussed this shortly after we met, and of course she was opposed because she really did not have a concept of this and she strongly believes that if a gentleman ask for a prenup, then he does not trust her fiance. I explained to her at length that that is not the case, but the discussion did not go anywhere and after some time, I decided, believe it or not, to drop that requirement, as it seems that she was really interested in me and not money. However, as I got to know her I realize that money and assets are very important to her and in the last two months she became very unstable, agitated, moody and several times she said "goodbye" But after some reflection, we will reconcile. I became concern; furthermore, friends and acquaintances I have told me to be very careful, one Russian lady said "Russians only want money" and every time I told someone from Ukraine or Russia about her, the first thing they said is "she only wants a green card" or "she wants a free education" or "She wants money" I know my baby does not have any of these intentions but how can I be sure, should I be reckless and compromise myself and marry without a prenup, I do not think so, I have to be responsible, especially to my children, and I explained this to her at length but it did not go anywhere. My assets are over 1 mil and it took me ten years to build it. I ask her to speak to an attorney, she has the ability to do that, she is very savvy and I set up an account with vonage.com and I gave her the router that works with the Internet so that she could use in her house, she has an American number, she can call and receive calls from the USA in Ukraine at no cost to her. And I am not telling her who to call, I told her to find an attorney and of course I will pay for it, in fact, she can use the credit card I gave her to pay the attorney, he/she will not know where the funds come from, so her fears that I will be seating right next to the attorney are ridiculous. I would never deal with her attorney directly, my attorney will do that and I believe the attorneys can come up with an agreement that would work for both of us, I would never suggest to my attorney to negotiate with the intention of leaving Katie on the street, like she claims, it just not me. In fact, it is disappointing to me that she thinks that. When she arrives to the USA, she will have ample of opportunity to seat down with her attorney face to face and go over the agreement and ask questions, once she reaches a comfort level, she can sign it and them we can go to city hall and get marry.

Her comment: I'm absolutely not protected. I love him, but I think he just wants to use me" We were in Kiev once and Budapest 3 times, and I made sure that she was comfortable and I was very mindful of her wellness and security because I love her, if she really feels unprotected, she should not marry me and she feels what I want to use her, she will be my wife, my other half, how can she ever think that I just want to use her, and why would I go a half a world away to see her, leave my practice and my family just to use her, of course not. I do not know exactly what she means by using her, but just to clarify, I went to see her with the expectation that there would be no sex and I was perfectly fine with this, I just wanted to see her and spend quality time with her and we did. Now, a word about the slip up, before I met her, I had a friend with benefits, after I met Katie and we decided to get married, I stop seeing her, and I was fine, difficult I must admit, but I love Katie and I wanted to be good to my word, but imagine, being in a room with her for 3, 4, or 5 nights, and no sex, just foreplay, and comeback to the states and no woman, very difficult but I manage expect one time when weakness took over and my friend showed up unexpectedly, and we had a fling, of course I felt horrible afterwards and the guild was unbearable, I had to confess to Katie and she forgave me, since that incident, I have been good to my word, I am in New York, alone, just waiting for her and I do not think she has a concept of how difficult it is for a grown mature man to just chill. In time she will understand. In our 3rd trip, she decided that it was time to become a woman as she is turning 21 soon, so it was just time, she decided to give herself to me on Valentine's day, a pre-meditated decision on her part. Our 4th and last trip was the longest, 7 days, it was just a joy, we had a great time, enjoy each other's company and we got alone very well.

Comment: "I have very strong character and if I want something my way, so I won't have any chance just to follow him..." This will never work with Katie, and I realize this from the very beginning and this is one of the reasons why I love her. But I must say that she wants quite a bit her way, and I try to accommodate her as much as possible, she told me to lose weight, join a gym and hire a personal trainer, I did everything except the personal trainer, and I lost 20 lbs in 3 months, she told me to change the way I dress, and I accommodated her request, she questions everything and sometimes, she just does not know how things works here in the USA, so I have to be able to exercise some kind of influence so that she will not compromise her safety or well being, for instance, she does not know how to drive, I told her that new drivers are more prone to accidents and when she comes here, it will be best to start with a safe reliable ten thousand dollar car and as she gets experience, then I can get her a better car or a new one, but I guess this is not acceptable to her. So, she is very strong and highly opinionative, at times, out of control, a lose canon, and I have to be able to deal with this and somehow, consider my advice/suggestions, but to her this means that I am controlling her and she does not want this at all, she wants to be her own person, do her own thing and this usually does not work well in a marriage. One last comment, yes I am 40, but I do not look my age, most people think that I am 35 and we look very good together, you can see our pic here or email me, WPerez1000@aol.com and I will be happy to send you more pics.
Like I said before, I appreciate all the comments posted as I know they are well intentioned, I hope that this gives you more insights and you are better able to advice Katie. I believe that this a great opportunity for her, to have a family, come to the USA and get her MBA degree. Also, she will be a doctor's wife, and that in itself brings about a great deal of recognition, respect and social status. I must say that I have literately gone crazy for this woman, I have done my best to accommodate her requests, being as attentive as I can be, offer her the great things life has to offer, we stayed at fancy hotels, dine and wine at fancy restaurants, visited many interesting and exciting places, whatever she needed I got her, and I made sure she was comfortable financially. I have being very devoted to her and I really care and adore her. Thanks for caring,
Walter
PS: In the last 2-3 months, we have being going in and out of the relationship, she breaks up, then she comes back, it has been quite a roller coaster ride, I was suppose to visit her this week, instead we broke up, then we reconcile 4 days ago, only to break up again 2 days ago, so I must admit this relationship has taken a toll on me.
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RUTHIE17posted 16 years ago
OK--here we go again but now with the other side of the story. I STILL think this whole thing is a put-on of some kind. If I'm wrong, I apologize.

Did anyone else notice that Katie joined 8 days ago and has made no hubs or posts except to here? Walter joined 7 days ago with no hubs or posts except here.

Again, if I were going to set up something like this just to jerk people around, I would have done the same thing. I'm waiting for the daughter or son to step up next, perhaps a good friend or even Mama or Papa. That would seem the logical progression in this saga. (Perhaps I read to many mysteries plus I've been told I have a criminal's prespective on planning.)

Anyway----

" Will she go back to Walter? Does Walter still really want her? Can a sweet 16 party be thrown for less than $15,000? Is this really the average cost of this type of party? Will Katie's parents give Walter another Cossack? Does Walter need another Cossack? What does the Cossack have to say about this? Why did Katie have to introduce Walter to an attorney if Walter has $1 MILLION? Who does Walter's legal work now if not an attorney? Is Walter getting free legal advice from Google? If Walter's really a Doctor how does he make the time to be globe trotting so much? For the answers to these and many more questions STAY TUNED FOR THE NEXT EXCITING EPISODE!

Brought to you by Fluffy Suds Laundry Soap---It saves you so much money because it leaves so much suds residue in your clothes, you just add soap to the tub every other time!"
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  Katie4everposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Alright, you know the truth. It's all just novel. At least did you enjoy it? Do you want me to continue writing? Honestly... What do you think of my English? :-))))))
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knolyourselfposted 16 years ago
Yes - You'd make a good certain type of american.
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VioletSunposted 16 years ago
After I believed the story, but as I continued to read, the comments "I am a naive girl", being repeated and the avatar made me suspect it was a fake. LOL!
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  Katie4everposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  fake... fake.. everything is fake... don't believe...
  
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RUTHIE17posted 16 years ago
Katie--or is that made up too?

I don't really thing what you tried to do was all that "funny". You had people concerned about you, giving you advice YOU asked for to work out problems in your life. Now, you're laughing at them, saying "HA! HA! Not real! Just a joke!"

What you did was play with people and their feelings--NOT COOL!

This WILL come back someday to bite you in the butt and I can't say I'll be sorry when it
does!
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1. 57
  Katie4everposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  OK, Ruthie... Let it be the way you say. And if it's true let it bite yo. Just now try to understand what did I feel when I was reading your post saying that it smells "fishy" when this is my real life. May be you understand at least a part of it. Do you like the feeling when people make joke from your good intentions to help me? I don't think so... So, imagine what I felt and Walter too, when someone makes fun from our lives.
  
  All I wish this never happened to anyone... Good luck!
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Betty Jo Pettyposted 16 years ago
There are other places to write short stories.

Good practice for your school. Not so funny on HubPages.

Try writing a Hub, and maybe stay off the forums for a bit.

Maybe you should do some reading first.

You really should go back through and do some editing.

As for the psychology I suggested, go ahead and learn more about it.

If you are going to write for English audiences, you do need more practice.

Good luck with your writing. But no stories on the threads.
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MOmmagusposted 16 years ago
You are certainly getting a lot of advice here, and I think you are the one who knows the situation the best, and I also think that the right answer is deep down in your heart, so follow your heart and if you have doubts, don't get married. And if he is cheating on you - forget it!!! Life is too short. Best of luck to you!
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RUTHIE17posted 16 years ago
MOmmagus--don't waste your sympathies here. Read a little farther back and you'll see where our faker admits it's all a lie.
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