Wow...Just an observation

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schoolgirlforrealposted 14 years ago
In one of the forums I noticed someone saying so and so might make their atheist groupie list

It seems , these atheists on here, and I don't think we really need a name (Christians call themselves Christians and they are a group so I guess if atheists call themselves athesits they are a group) (a groupie group)

so, what I noticed was how "proud " they are of being an atheist and that they have some sort of "group" mentality.

So, this to me appears to be equal to a religion or cult perhaps

Group=religion/or Cult???

This Group professes pride in hating Christians or Christ
In grouping themselves with each other
Possibly avoiding all other religions
Making fun or and spending tons of time doing this

(instead of what I would call "normal" in just avoiding Christ or Christians)

Just an observation. Interesting isn't? LOL hehe
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Very good observation in my opinion.....All a Christian has to do is post anything about God and it's like throwing raw meat into a den of hungry lions..(hey, that's been done before-dejavu perhaps)
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  schoolgirlforrealposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Leslie,
  
  I want to appreciate and THANK YOU for this wonderful VALIDATION!!!
  (Before I get attacked!!!!!!! )
  
  peace all
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  Your welcome...
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  h.a.borcichposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Very accurate observation.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  At least we all agree it is the Christians making the first move. 2,000 years of doing this has caused 2,000 years of conflict.
  
  When will you learn?
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  h.a.borcichposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Keep your words out of my mouth Mark. Perhaps you think it is clever, but it is so juvenile.
  
  People who always figure a way to blame you for how they rage at you are called abusers. You hide behind :
  if you didn't believe in sky fairies...
  if you didn't spread this crud...
  if you kept it private....
  if I didn't have to see it...
  if you didn't blah,blah,blah....
  
  There was a point where I really looked forward to participating in a discussion with you. Now, after all your insults and antics I realize you are not capable.
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  exorterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Mark, when will we learn that we are not allowed to mention Christ, or Religion, you do not have to agree with us, but we are allowed to speak to each other about God, if you do not want to see that, then do not open anything about Religion
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Jerami's brother,
  
  When will you learn that this is a public forum that covers many subjects? And I have a valid opinion that I will continue to share every time one of you causes a fight by sticking your self-proclaimed righteousness in my face. If you do not want to hear a contrary opinion - why are you here? Some one did suggest a christians-only forum - yet here you are once again.
  
  Have you ever even read a history book? You seem ignorant of the many religious wars in the past. And the current one brewing. All caused by religionists like yourself "talking about god."
  
  I will continue to try and stop you spreading hatred and causing wars. It is my duty as a rational human being.
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  exorterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I do not spread hatred, I think a lot of people that call themselves Christians, are not. the Word says to love everyone, there are bad people everywhere, some are calling themselves Christians
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  there are bad people everywhere, some are calling themselves Christians; giving Christians a bad name
  
  and some are calling themselves Atheists. Giving Atheists a bad name
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  theherbivorehippiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  hanging outposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  valid opinion
  
  Now marky mark.. this is what we mean by you are just nasty. nasty, nasty.
  How can you imagine that people have never read a history book? On what do you base your question/statement on? Inference, right!? i am correct. The problem with you mark is you infer so much. Your posts are made of inference upon inference upon inference. All you do is infer, in fact you infer to infer that your inference is a truth. lol. Nothing could be further from the truth.
  Lets look at this one bold inference...
  "You seem ignorant of the many religious wars in the past. And the current one brewing. All caused by religionists like yourself "talking about god."
  you infer we seem ignorant of many religious wars in the past. I know of some catholic troubles, although i don' t want to infer i know what you mean by the word 'war'. I can think of many many wars NOT caused by religion, WW1 and 2, 1812, vietnam war, gulf war and some others. You have never listed your wars that you claim to exist. Your next inference is "the one brewing"... is this a christian war, muslim war, or just a skirmish you want to call a war? Can you explain and please don't just say you would be wasting your time to explain because an answer like that should just get you banned forever from "debating" or "discussing" on hubpages. If you see a muslim war approaching then go bother the muslims and please don't put their agenda onto christians Again i don't want to infer that is what you are doing but you really don't say much you just insult and push your troubled thoughts onto us in the most vague way. Are we to be impressed by your high hubpages score alone
  
  "I will continue to try and stop you spreading hatred and causing wars".
  Again your inference has you totally causing war with christians. If we are attacked we might defend ourselves that would depend on how funny the puzzled look were on the attackers face as we chose not to defend ourselves but over paper this approach is lame, lol.
  
  "It is my duty as a rational human being".
  So by creating war you deflect war and this you call rational. Dear me and oh my. It must be true; people become the thing they hate the most. You hate war and have evolved into a warmonger. Let me introduce you to irony.
  hahahahahahaha.
  
  Basically what is happening here, by inferenece which is fine with you, is you are full of yourself and thinking yourself a god you have risen above the christians in your moral outrage at their peaceful doctrine discussions and through malignant pushy dictatorship will crush them under your huge foot which lives perpetually in your even bigger mouth. Yah that sounds rational.
  
  to quote earnest except for the capitals wotalotofrot
  The door is over there mark, close it behind ya okay, your credence here is 100 times lower than your hubscore. (even in the evolution forums you are nasty nasty nasty, attitudes like that create wars yknow.
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  schoolgirlforrealposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  <3
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Atheism is a "meme" of a religion or a "work in progress"; though I sometimes feel religion is deep rooted or embedded in their physyche though they are not conscious of it. Some of them could be termed as "zealots" of their "unfaith".
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  Don Wposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Interesting observation. If you mean atheism as simply a lack of belief, or a belief that a deity does not exist, then atheism is not a religion by any standard. If you mean the attempt to disseminate an atheist world-view, then that's a different story.
  
  Some dictionary definitions of religion include something like: 'A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion'. That meaning can obviously be applied to anyone who pursues something with zeal etc, including atheists. So by that very narrow meaning, a group which zealously advocates atheism is religious. But is that a religion religion? One of the most common anthropological meanings of religion is from Clifford Geertz, an American anthropologist:
  
  "(1) a system of symbols
  (2) which acts to establish powerful, pervasive and long-lasting moods and motivations in men
  (3) by formulating conceptions of a general order of existence and
  (4) clothing these conceptions with such an aura of factuality that
  (5) the moods and motivations seem uniquely realistic."
  
  So we can summarise religion from an anthropological point of as: a system of symbols which establishes a world-view, and endeavours to promote that world-view as uniquely real. Do modern efforts to disseminate the atheist world-view fall into that category? Yes. Whether a world-view is based on a supernatural agent, or whether it is based on humanist principles makes no difference. The mechanism by which it is espoused is the same, i.e. through symbolism or more broadly speaking, culture of which symbolism is an important part.
  
  Leading proponents of the atheist world-view such as Richard Dawkins etc have actively used cultural means to disseminate atheism. Indeed Dawkins himself formulated the idea of the 'meme' as a unit of ideas transmitted to others through culture. Dawkins' books and anti-religion movement have garnered much cultural commentary. The use of culture in this way certainly represents a 'system of symbols' used to establish and promote a world-view, because culture is all about symbols.
  
  Moreover even where science cannot draw a conclusion, some atheists present their arguments as 'scientific'. Alluding to science in this way is indicative of 'clothing these conceptions with such an aura of factuality the moods and motivations seem uniquely realistic'.
  
  To that end, we can say that while atheism per se is not a religion, so called New Atheism (the modern attempt to disseminate the atheist world-view) certainly is from at least one anthropological viewpoint. And it's fascinating to be able to witness anti-religion becoming a social movement and the birth of New Atheism which, to all intents and purposes, is becoming religion in its own right.
  
  In a nutshell: Atheism says nothing other than a lack of belief in a deity or belief a deity does not exist. New Atheism is different, it represents the establishment and dissemination of a world view, through cultural means, by which concepts of the world and existence are promoted in a way which suggests they are uniquely real. So although the content of the world-view may be different, in terms of function New Atheism is no different to a religion such as Christianity. Functionally they are the same.
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  Shadesbreathposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think you're close to the heart of it here. I would say that 2 other essentially defining characteristics beyond your five up there are the presence of priests/shamans and rituals. Religions have to have intermediaries. By definition, they begin with cults, having a central figure of great super-natural connection, and they then expand to sects and, if large enough, qualify as religion. This requires at first a central figure as the go between, the keeper of the connections to the spirit world, and, for the religion to continue after his/her death, someone has to step in and teach/disseminate. Beyond that, religion needs rituals to bind its constituents A) to the supernatural and B) to each other as a community having a relationship to the belief set/deity.
  
  Atheism fails to "qualify" on the priest/shaman part. The intermediary for atheism is non-existent because there is nothing to intermediate with. One cannot mediate with the absence of a deity or spirit. Simply having a powerful speaker extolling the virtues of not being gullible is not enough. Unless he begins invoking the "binding commonality of reason" which can become, in a way, the spirit of non-spirituality.
  
  The necessary ritual element of religion I think is, at least mostly, there for atheism. I think the ritual of arguing against anyone who brings their religion into a secular setting is, well, a ritual. It is ritual argumentation that binds atheists as a community.
  
  The big commonality between atheists and religious people is that both require blind faith given that there is no concrete evidence that there is or is not a god. There are only arguments. The idea that "you can't prove a negative" is the ironic source of strength for both sides, albeit by vastly different means.
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  Don Wposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  That's interesting Shadesbreath. Terms like pseudo-religion and quasi-religion reflect the distinction you make, i.e. systems which have some but not all the elements of 'religion'. Anthropologically though there's no distinction based on 'authenticity' if you will.
  
  Anthropologists are interested in the practices of religion, only in as much as they shed light on the underlying social function. In that context your priests/shamans perform the function of imparting some esoteric, specialist knowledge, insight or understanding to 'lay people' who don't posses such insight, knowledge and understanding. It is this knowledge etc which distinguishes the priest/shaman from others. So someone recognised as having special knowledge/insight beyond that of a 'lay person' within such a system is the functional equivalent of a priests/shaman, regardless of what the special knowledge, insight and understanding actually relates to.
  
  Anthropologists are not looking at sameness of form, but sameness of function. So whether someone imparts his knowledge/insight of a deity and mediates between lay people and god, or whether someone imparts his knowledge/insight of science and mediates between lay people and the complexities of a scientific understanding of the universe is irrelevant. They perform the same function within the system. So New Atheism has figures who serve the function of priests/shamans. We can identify rituals this way also. We can say that the ridiculing of theists is a ritual by virtue of the function it serves within New Atheism, compared to the similar function served by rituals in other systems.
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  Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  New Atheism, then are people who need to collectively support each other for some reason, and do some evangelizing for their cause, just as believers need to gather and do the same.
  
  It sounds like a bunch of disaffected believers who are still codependent on each other. And perhaps that is the case. I don't really know. However, I don't see atheists on HP patting each other on the back much. They seem more independent of each other in my observation.
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  Don Wposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  New Atheists need as much or as little validation of their world-view as the next person. The mechanisms for that exists within the system. It may differ in form but it's there. Indeed every group, not just religious groups, has some way of validating those in the group.
  
  Usually that consists of elevating the differences between those in the group compared to 'others'. Someone of a different nationality is not just culturally different but is probably inferior, and in some cases subhuman! A Christian does not just have a different belief to an atheist, he is stupid and mentally dysfunctional! An atheist does not just have a different world-view to a theist, he is in fact the devil incarnate, bent on dragging the world to hell in a hand basket!
  
  The actual subject is unimportant. What's important is that there's a difference. Because then you have 'same' (us) and 'different' (them) which are the ingredients for conflict. We can see this being played out in the social Petri dish that is the HP forum. In the religion forum you are seeing aspects of group and inter-group dynamics: 1) a dominance and territory conflict between one group (atheists/anti-religionists) and those perceived as the 'others' (theists/religionists), 2) people validating themselves as individuals and validating their group through the process of elevating the differences between their group and the 'others'. This is a function of every group regardless of who is in the group or what defines it. New Atheism as a group is no different in that regard to any other group,and individuals who are New Atheists are no different to other individuals in that regard either.
  
  What's more interesting is that this forum is a microcosm of society in that respect. What defines a group in society is irrelevant also. Being able to discern a difference is what's important. Inter group dynamics then takes it from there, and conflict is the result. It matters little what those differences are. Those conflicts, both violent and verbal, are the result of inter-group dynamics. They are not the result of one particular type of belief compared to another. They would happen regardless. The severity of the conflict is not determined by the beliefs involved either, but by cultural, historical and socio-political factors.
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  hanging outposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  sounds like atheism had another church split
  
  bad atheist evangelising?
  
  poor preaching?
  
  someone get caught with a false doctrine?
  
  Just another religion! but nastier, run by psychopathic b+tches.
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  Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  There may be some truth in what you write, but I think that's part of the misunderstanding. I don't think most atheists really "hate" people, God, or Christ. I think they challenge their beliefs in them. The challenging is so severe at times that believers simply assume that atheists are haters. Not necessarily so.
  
  Additionally, I don't think atheists group together. Most of the ones on HP are very independent of each other, and usually are not "joiners" of any type of organization. They are rather much more renegades.
  
  I'm not an atheist, agnostic, or believer. I don't identify with any of it. I grew up a religious Christian, and I understand the thoughts, and culture. But I no longer identify with it.
  
  Earnesthubs and Mark Knowles are as different as snow and coal in regard to their approach and how they view Christian beliefs, or any other religious beliefs. Cagsil and others also are very independent in their thinking and take a completely different approach to all this.
  
  Perhaps a generalization of atheists and non believers as you describe it is a little to easy to make. I think it's more complex than you describe.
  
  Oh, and by the way, there is nothing wrong with being a believer. The people I love most in this life are devout believers. Contesting a person's beliefs should be a way of examining to strengthen one's own convictions. If those convictions are never questioned, their value decreases. It's no different if you are a believer or an atheist.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Good observations Daniel.
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  schoolgirlforrealposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's a good response.
  I agree that there is "no difference if you are a believer or an athesit" (and some atheists don't go by that name, they don't go by any name or may choose to go by "natureist" ëvolutionist etc
  
  I've seen BOTH have very good morals and show kindness
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  Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Exactly.
  I don't think either believers or atheists can be classified good or bad. They are all just people. And most likely, quite likable in many cases.
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  Baileybearposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think it is mainly personalities too - some are rather outspoken/blunt/forceful whether christian or atheist; some are very rigid about what they believe (or don't believe) and others are more open-minded.
  I've seen the slagging off in both directions - personal insults, accusations of ignorance etc.
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  hanging outposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I guess you have read very few of the atheist posts in any of the obvious christian topics but i could be wrong so let me phrase it this way perhaps you have read a lot of atheist posts responding to obvious christian topics but the malicious tone has been unnoticed by you.
  here is mark knowles first reply here:
  
  At least we all agree it is the Christians making the first move. 2,000 years of doing this has caused 2,000 years of conflict.
  When will you learn?
  
  nice huh. short, brief, didn't take up a lot of room. Can you see the nastiness now?
  
  here is marks other reply:
  Have you ever even read a history book? You seem ignorant of the many religious wars in the past. And the current one brewing. All caused by religionists like yourself "talking about god."
  
  I will continue to try and stop you spreading hatred and causing wars. It is my duty as a rational human being.
  
  too which i already replied to this.
  
  here is an earnest common post
  "Nice little psychopath! lol"
  or this one
  "No person can fail at fairy worship. smile"
  
  Have you noticed the famous term "sky fairy" or acknowledged the malice from cagsil..
  Perhaps if you hang around you will notice that not one question gets out there without these so called undisturbing indivduals nasty replies.
  
  There are indeed some nice people in the world but that is because a nice set of circumstances allows for that. These atheists may be nice people in real life but they suck in here.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  All taken out of context, and comments on my own posts!
  Am I allowed to use the "out of context" excuse too?
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  Woman Of Courageposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  hanging out, Those words are filled with hate and nastiness to me also.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Which words are full of nastiness?
  Yours or hers?
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  Woman Of Courageposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  earnest, you already know the answer, so why play unecessary games?
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  mythbusterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  schoolgirlforreal,
  
  in my observations, most atheists do not "hate" Christians, however, they do dislike - even "hate" the behaviors and assertions that many/most Christians make...
  
  ...as well as the lack of critical thinking many Christians display when discussing religion.
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  Titen-Sxullposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "This Group professes pride in hating Christians or Christ"
  
  While some hardcore atheists might have an extreme dislike of Christians I don't think it crosses over into hate. And they can't hate Christ either, because that would be the equivalent of hating Harry Potter or Hercules, he's a fictional legendary character.
  
  Also there is a big key difference between any group of atheists and any cult or religion - superstition. Atheists have no superstitions or deities.
  
  It sounds like you are simply calling them a cult because you don't like the idea that Atheists are forming groups and standing up for themselves and their lack of belief.
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  Never_Forgetposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Atheists are no different than Christians or any other religion. They have there own mind made up already and they all rely on faith. Faith is something that humans can really get down with, naturally. Our brains are able to convince us that anything is true if we believe it is.
  
  Atheist arguments make my head explode just as fast as Christian arguments, and when I see them argue with each other, my spine usually disintegrates and my brain stem melts down my lifeless back. It only lasts for a couple hours though.
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  Texasbetaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  How exactly do you feel that atheists rely on faith? By definition, atheists do not involve themselves in faith, and it is one of the fundamental aspects of being an atheist. Seriously...GET A DICTIONARY PEOPLE!
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  Woman Of Courageposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi Texasbeta, I agree
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  Amie Warrenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not an atheist or a Christian, but just want to make an observation. Every cult in the world that has ever had a mass suicide or a mass murder was a Christian cult. More Christian cults exist on earth than any other kind. Kinda strange that Christians are the first people to use the "cult" word against anyone who doesn't agree with them when they start most of the cults.
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  klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Correction - there were those groups that commited mass suicide in order to avoid being enslaved by Christians - The Native American tribes of the Caribbean.
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  Woman Of Courageposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Amie, These group of people could have not been true christians to begin with. Where did you recieve your information about christians using the cult word against someone who doesn't agree with them.? I am not in a christian cult, that sounds like witchcraft. It's your choice to rebel against God, true and holy word.
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  Baileybearposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think the pentecostal churches I went to years ago were very cultish and based on fear. Of course, I met some lovely people (and also nutcases)
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  Texasbetaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I am sorry...well, not really, but you are entirely incorrect. A religion requires a belief in a supernatural force, which atheists do not. You really need to start with a dictionary to learn what the word religion means. How you go from Group=religion=cult is one of the most juvenile things I have read in a while. I am awfully let down that you appear to have not a clue.
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Cagsilposted 14 years ago
So, then what you say about me?

I am neither, an atheist or religious folk.

And some people will argue with you about whether or not, "atheism" is a religion, in and of, itself.

However, I would argue with them, just to let them know that being "atheist" is a religion, even if they don't recognize it as one.

Atheism isn't an organized religion, because there are not enough of them to become organized, like that of Christian or Islamic.
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  schoolgirlforrealposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  cags,
  really? not enough to become organized...hmm.....you are right--I mean I believe you,
  
  As for you, I must say I LIKE people as long as they don't argue and be mean so you're ok in my book , so long as you're nice to me! ;-)
  :-)
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hey Schoolgirl,
  
  Just think about it for just for a second....
  
  There are 1.5 billion people of the Muslim religion.
  There are roughly about 2.5 billion people of Christian or other religions.
  
  That makes about 4 Billion people dedicated to some religion with regards to a god. Now, there are only 6.6 Billion people in the world today?
  
  At least 2.6 billion people are mixed into a melting pot of all sorts of beliefs.
  
  Trust- Atheism is nowhere near an organized religion.
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  DevLinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Humanists?
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Mixed in.
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  kimberlyslyricsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
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  schoolgirlforrealposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  agreed though I made some good points!
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Cags,
  
  Good info...are the statistics verifiable?
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  As far as stats go?
  
  I trust in no stats that I haven't worked out myself. Especially, if provided by religious leaders or political leaders.
  
  But, as far as, 2/3 of the world believing in a god. Yes. And, it's not a good thing.
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  china manposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  There is no group of cult - there are just loads of thinking people who oppose the spread of vicious ideologies that promote hate and destruction while talking mealy mouthed rubbish about love.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Cagsil wrote ....I am neither, an atheist or religious folk.
  
  ================================
  
  REALLY ??? What is the definition of an Atheist then?
  
  When did they change it??
  
  schoolgirlforreal Your post was an accurate statement.
  
  As was LeslieAdrienne
  
  But that is because Christians are causing all of the problems by existing. If we would quit doing that, there wouldn't be any problem. They would quit doing what they enjoy doing so much.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Jerami,
  
  Let me get this straight - the problem is not Christians evangelizing, bearing witness, spreading the word - it is people asking you to keep your beliefs private that is the problem?
  
  Did I get that right?
  
  Starting threads like this directly aimed at atheists is not what causes fights. It is all the fault of anyone who responds. I see. Wow - just an observation, but - dear me - no wonder your religion has caused 2000 years of wars.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What part are you questioning? I didn't say anything about being an atheist.
  
  I said I would argue with it, because being an atheist is the dia-metrically opposing view of the Christian religious view.
  
  It's just unorganized, as I said. Or do you not comprehend well enough to understand those who argue against you?
  
  An "atheist" maintains a "belief" of no god or not the "god" of the bible.
  
  Mark Knowles argues with everyone, and I find it difficult to even call him an "atheist".
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  schoolgirlforrealposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  lol
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Jerami,
  
  You said, "Christians are causing all of the problems by existing. If we would quit doing that, there wouldn't be any problem."
  
  How do you suggest we stop existing???
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  Rishy Richposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Easiest way is by converting
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  Woman Of Courageposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No way !
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  Druid Dudeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No shopping for prayer rugs at Wal-Mart! Do away with all churches, mosques, synagogues. Learn the Spiritual path that exists within.
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  Dale Nelsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think Drud dude explains it hte best. If you consider that the whole aim of Christianity is self improvement and respect for others and oneself, then it would be contrary to the belief system to even entertain these type of discussions. Sure I understand spread the word, but at what cost.
  
  Personally, I would label myself as agnoostic if I had to choose a label.
  
  The reason would be that deciding on a deity, would contradict the essence of all the "good books" and the "word".
  
  The decision to link religion to a tangible thing like a building is where I have a problem. The mere fact of comparing other dress sense at Sunday church, mass etc. goes against everything that the lessons are.
  
  So to sum up the statement by Druid Dude, choosing a spiritual path should have no direct assumption that one religion is greater than the other. This statement assumes that God is determining which people are hsi followers by their choice of reading material or deity name.
  
  Just my opinion, so to me a label of Christianity contradicts the purpose of its teachings. Just because the world has changed in 2000 years should not influence the spiritual path by subscribing to a tangible philosophy.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I was just attempting to show how ridiculous the argument is
  that Christians are causing all of the problems.
  
  Last time I checked it takes two to fight.
  
  I can see in my mind, a bully going over to the little kid in the play ground and saying; "I told you to not come here, Don't make me beat you up again"
  You are causing conflict by coming here.
  If you would just do as "I" say, this would be a peaceful play ground, You are ruining it for the rest of us.
  SO GO HOME ... then I can find peace.
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  h.a.borcichposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Jerami,
  This may help in understanding the typical tactics used by a few atheists on this forum.
  
  Projecting blame. Abusers often engage in an insidious type of manipulation that involves blaming the victim for the behavior. Such perpetrators may accuse the victim of "pushing buttons" or "provoking" the abuse. By diverting attention to the victim's actions, the perpetrator avoids taking responsibility for the abusive behavior.
  
  They won't look at what they do, but their behavior is obvious. God Bless
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yea like seing the dirt on the back of our knees but can't take the efort to look at the back of their own.
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  Woman Of Courageposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  h.a.borich, That's exactly what I see happening all the time.
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  IntimatEvolutionposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Are you grouping yourself one way or another??? No- and you haven't in the past. So, (as someone who has been here on HP a while would ONLY know) in this regards you're nothing, but, an individual who stands out from the rest of the other non-groupies here at HP; because your looking to be recognized for your individuality, unlike the other non-groupies in here. Yes, that is what I'd say about you.
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Pearldiverposted 14 years ago
LOL hehe?????????????? How Arogant...

As Free Thinkers who have taken the time to establish that the world is Not Flat... Those that you refer to are merely declaring an abstinance from FreeMasonary

Sheeeesh... have you Not Considered that or were you too busy Judging?
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  schoolgirlforrealposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Let me point out , from listening to an experienced former-Freemason that freemasonry has Rituals which are bizarre and cult like and oppose Christ-
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  Pearldiverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  OMG Why are you showing the world the height of your ignorance by Ranting About Something So Close to Your Own Promoted Beliefs That you don't know anything about??
  
  Let Me Point Out TO YOU....
  
  That One of the KEY Primary Pre-requisites to BECOMING a FreeMason is that the member MUST BELIEVE in the existance of a Higher Being!!!
  
  You 'Listened' to a Who?
  
  Sheeesh.... If you're gonna Spread The Word.... At Least KNOW What You Are Talking About!!
  
  So...... You Spread your Wisdom and Live Your Life based on HEARSAY??
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  kimberlyslyricsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  Wish I worded it that way, glad you did. I was on my rant when I reversed and saw yours. Thanks
  
  Great Post
  
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  Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Anything that is "unfamiliar" is going to feel like a threat. What if the rituals of the Freemasons, which precede Christ by at least a few thousand years, were the actual "true" rituals of belief in God? Just as Judaism preceeded it, and those scriptures (the OT) are INCLUDED with Christian belief?
  
  Hmmmmm..... Not so weird in the respect.
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  pearldiver,
  
  Did you know that there is actually an organized group of people who swear the earth is flat......they say the pictures from space are a distortion caused by something that I can't pronounce.....
  
  I think they are called the Flat Earth Society....google it.......
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cheaptrickposted 14 years ago
Hi Y'all!I'm a dyslexic atheist and I'm tell-en ya there is no Dog!
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  schoolgirlforrealposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  lol
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  cheaptrick
  
  Don't trip if you get bit.
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  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  This one came from Henry Makow Ph.D.
  
  The Dog Centered Life
  
  September 5, 2010
  
  Today, while walking my dog, I saw a white-haired lady drive by in a convertible.
  
  A large golden retriever was in the back seat.
  
  It seemed the dog was being chauffeured by the lady!
  
  Then it hit me:
  
  "We all have to serve somebody."
  
  Human beings are ornery creatures.
  
  Instead of serving G-O-D, naturally we would get it backwards.
  
  We serve D-O-G!
  
  Why is this?
  
  Full article:
  
  http://www.henrymakow.com/the_dog_centered_life.html
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skyfireposted 14 years ago
Not true. Going by the definition religion, it's not even unorganized religion. If atheism is religion then being apple fan or microsoft fan is like religion in itself.
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  Baileybearposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  well that's where the word fanatic comes from
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aguasilverposted 14 years ago
" All caused by religionists like yourself "talking about god.""

Ever considered that Satan may be responsible for stirring up those wars, no of course you don't believe in him do you.....
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So - you think you are doing what Satan tells you then? Interesting that you refuse to take responsibility and instead blame it on an invisible demon. No wonder your belief system causes so many wars.
  
  You are responsible for your own actions. You.
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  Woman Of Courageposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi Mark, how about be responsible for your own actions? I would like to see you do that for a change.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Really? I take full responsibility for my actions. I do not need to hide behind a fake user name or invisible super being.
  
  You sure are brave though - hiding behind a user name and preaching agin wot ur god sez. How very courageous of you.
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  Woman Of Courageposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Mark, see that's what I mean, your mocking, disrspecting and insulting behavior. You refuse to be responsible for acting that way, but rather blame your behavior on people who believe in God, and hate christians who have faith in the bible. Your words don't offend me at all, it only stir me to praise God even more. Have a great day!
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  theherbivorehippiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not trying to be insulting but don't you think that it is insulting or disrespectful to us non-believers to constantly be told that we are wrong or be put down for what our thoughts. Just because you (using the word "you" in general terms)feel that you are right, doesn't make you right. I think that non-believers are constantly "talked" down to on here so we have the right to defend ourselves, just as you do.
  
  These forum topics are started but then Christians seem to get so offended when they were targeted at putting "us" down to begin with. Hypocritical, no?
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  Don Wposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If a theist doesn't like comments made by non theists, then they can either argue/discuss it (within the rules of the forum) or sign up to a private forum with tighter controls over who posts. Likewise if a non theist is offended by what theists say, they can either argue/discuss it or sign up for a different forum.
  
  Either way, voluntarily entering a public forum, then entering the section called 'religion and philosophy' then complaining about people (theists and non-theists) talking about religion and philosophy, doesn't seem particularly sensible.
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  theherbivorehippiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  lmao..whatever. REad the threads and get your shit straight before you comment. Actually....read the opening topic. I have been very polite on here. I love the people that post and want a debate but you want things your way like a two year child. You are right and everyone else is wrong. This is why I stay out of the forums. You have the right to an opinion....just keep it to yourself to make everyone else happy.
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  Don Wposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not suggesting you've been impolite. I have no idea whether you have or haven't. You may have been the soul of civility, but that isn't really relevant. I'm simply suggesting that complaining about people posting their religious and philosophical opinions, arguments and beliefs in a public 'religion and philosophy' forum seems futile. That's akin to trying to stop someone banging their head against a brick wall. Of course you're free to bang your head against a brick wall if want to, but suggesting it isn't very fruitful hardly constitutes trying to have things my way.
  
  As for people keeping their opinions to themselves. HubPages could allow only verified facts to be posted, rather than opinion. But then the forum wouldn't really be a forum. It would be ... well a giant encyclopaedia. So it's not really surprising on a forum intended to allow the public to express opinions, to find members of the public actually expressing their opinions. Suggesting people keep their opinions to themselves defeats the object of having a forum.
  
  I really don't mean to be facetious, but I'm not not sure what you're saying. If you're saying people could temper their language, refrain from personal attacks, be more civil with each other while expressing their opinions, I totally agree. But I disagree with the suggestion that it's "disrespectful to us non-believers to constantly be told that we are wrong". Saying you think someone is wrong is not disrespectful if you think someone is wrong, whether you are a theist or a non-theist. The disrespect lies in how it's conveyed. In this post, I've expressed disagreement with you, and I've given my reasons. This post may be confusing, boring, facetious, irrelevant, rambling and nonsensical but I think it's fair to say it isn't disrespectful to you. So it can be done. Opinions aren't the problem, it's how people express them that can sometimes be an issue.
  
  Besides that, seeing opinions that differ from our own takes us out of our comfort zone. It helps us develop. Isn't that what it's all about, living an learning as we go.
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  Woman Of Courageposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi theherbivorehippi, nice to meet you. Yes it is insulting for anyone to constantly put down or tell someone they are wrong. I have noticed that some of the unbelievers constantly enter the christian forums calling awful names, being manipulative and cruel toward the people that believe in God and the bible. Those are not putdown words that you see in my messages above. It's a difference when telling the truth to someone when it is obvious the person is always rude toward christians. It's not polite to defend a person when you can see clearly the person behavior is what I described. I don't have to defend myself, but stand strong on my belief in God. I don't feel I was right, I know my message was correct. I don't see anywhere where the christians put the unbelievers down to begin with.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No - I take full responsibility for my actions. I know what I am doing and why I do it. The reason I choose to do it is in an attempt to stop peopel such as yourself from causing the conflicts you do. I have seen you express god's opinion and claim it is not yours. I do not hate Christians who have faith in the bible. I despair of Christians like yourself who claim to be righteous.
  
  I am well aware you do not care what I think and no matter what I say - you will continue to stir trouble and call it "praising god,."
  
  I guess my choice to instead make fun of you comes from my frustration at watching groups of peopel such as yourself claim to be "loving" just causing strife.
  
  I honestly do not know what else to do. I have tried being reasonable, I have tried to explain to you that Jesus is allegorical and god is an internal not external being and does not exist outside you, but still you go waving your bibles and flaunting your crosses at the Muslims and unbelievers.
  
  So I guess I have come to the point where I feel I aught to do something in order to protect myself from the coming clash, but have decided that violence is not an option I choose to use, because that would make me just as bad as you christ-cultists. Reason does not work, because if I say anything contrary to your beliefs - you will merely accuse me of being an agent of Satan.
  
  So - reason and violence are out. My remaining two options are - ignore you and sit back and watch the inevitable conflict in the hope I can put me and mine out of harms way or express myself in a non violent way. As I am naturally sarcastic and witty - I choose to make fun of you instead, in the vain hope that I may persuade any undecided onlookers that the responses I illicit will help them to make a rational decision.
  
  I happen to be on the Internet all day long in any case, and this is a convenient way of distracting myself from work related tasks. I wouldn't normally be in a position to interact with your type of evangelical, righteous Christian.
  
  Either way - it satisfies my need to feel I have done something and allows me to express my frustration. It sometimes has a positive effect and I have had quite a few people write thanking me for helping them to see what they had become. It is unlikely to cause any harm because most believers - like yourself - are largely immune to any suggestion that your belief system is a faulty one and will defend it to the death once fully indoctrinated.
  
  I could call my self righteous and fighting for goodness and love. I could even claim that god told me to do this. I could even quote teh bible to back up my viewpoint.
  
  But - then I would have finally become what I am fighting against - as Jerami keeps telling me I already am. His motives are not pure though. He just wants me to shut up and stop attacking his precarious belief system.
  
  I have read your bible. It is cruel, manipulative, awful and insulting to non believers. You have no authority and do not take responsibility for your own actions. Nor do you follow the tenets you claim your righteousness through. You have to earn respect - not demand it as you do. You have done nothing to earn my respect.
  
  I wonder if you have even read your bible. Probably just the good bits huh?
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  china manposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I notice the change from few line replies to book-length, I guess business is slower these days ?
  
  Persoanlly I find I have gone the other way with post length, christians seem to find it hard to read more than one line, or reply from the hip after one line anyway.
  
  Good luck with your current indulgence of trying to actually explain why their nonsense is just nonsense, I am beginning to favour the idea of bringing back the inquisition.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well - I certainly understand why the Romans used to feed them to the lions.
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  h.a.borcichposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Mark,
  This post was very honest and I am glad to see it. Only brave people face a mirror and get naked with themselves.
  What you believe in or don't believe in is fine with me. Be the person you want to be. I feel that same way towards Earnst, Cags, and everyone else, too. Just afford me the same freedom.
  Start threads about what irks you about christians. I would not barge into such a thread mocking and ridiculing. I personally would be more inclined to read only such a thread and utilize it for self examination.
  In the same way, when threads exist about christian living or what verse has helped me today, I would hope to not see it pounced on by those who believe differently. These threads are not for demanding proof or discussion of why believe.
  There should also be threads for debating religions or beliefs. Those who want to discuss the "empirical proofs" or if there is a God should be able to.
  It comes down to respecting each other as people. We don't have to change our beliefs to participate, we just have to be tolerant knowing there is room for us all. But nobody wants to be a target on every thread.
  Have a great day Mark
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Respect and tolerance are not the same thing. If the beliefs of religions demands we be tolerant, then we will not garner respect for one another, but will instead just tolerate each other. This will always keep us divided as humans.
  
  The problem also is that religions demand intolerance to those who do not share the same beliefs. The actions of believers make that clearly evident.
  
  Religions will have to drastically change their dogma to be tolerant of others before respect has a chance to intervene.
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  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  How can anyone think that a the body Christ, whose believers are required to welcome ANYBODY who wishes to join them in Christ, is intolerant?
  
  There is a difference between tolerance and acceptance.
  
  I tolerate many secular actions, because the secular world is entitled to do as it wishes, but I do not accept many secular activities and actions, I recognise them as error and sin, and reserve my right to point out the error and sin as the bible indicates believers should.
  
  Tolerance should also work both ways, and the day that I enter an atheist forum topic and start maligning the posters, I would consider I was showing extreme intolerance.
  
  Are there any atheist forums on HubPages?
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  pisean282311posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  well joining them in christ , following christ,considering christ as saviour or god is absoultely fine as long as the believer doesnot become over zealous to make everyone belief that what he belief is only truth possible..as long as person keeps his/her belief as personal..why would anyone have issue with that?...being tolerant means have ones stand but respecting others stand too..."my belief is true for me"..thats it..my belief is true for all is something which is not great thing to be..because then debate would come...
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LOL! You just contradicted yourself and refuted your own argument.
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  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Where?
  
  I tolerate, but do not accept as correct, and will tell people why not if they need telling.
  
  Is that less or more tolerant than an atheist trying to disrupt my communications because they don't agree with me?
  
  If you have the 'right' to belittle Christ, I have the 'right' to tell you where you are in error or sin, if I see that you are.
  
  And count that 'you' as a metaphoric 'you', not literally aimed at you!
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you for agreeing with my point, again.
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  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Only a part answer...nice edit, and used out of context.
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  They are your words, sir. They stand on their own merit and clearly define the difference between tolerance and respect.
  
  Out of context? Of course I cannot respect your religion because I am forced to tolerate it by it's very own nature of the dogma presented within it and the commands of your god.
  
  From one human to another, without the religion telling you what to do, we can easily respect one another with no need for tolerance on either side, but instead a mutual respect for humanity.
  
  I'm sure you've read or heard enough times on this forum and elsewhere that humanity is evil and god is the way to go. Never shall there be respect of any kind with that ideology in control.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "I recognise them as error and sin, and reserve my right to point out the error and sin as the bible indicates believers should."
  
  The book about the three pigs indicates that a wolf is gonna blow your house down, so I reserve the right to warn you as the book indicates.
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  h.a.borcichposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I guess I am not relating as a "religion" then. I am speaking on a personal level. I relate to people
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  china manposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I have never noticed this side of you in these forums, is this a new development ?
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  h.a.borcichposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I have not made any major shifts in my person lately I am more inclined to believe that because I admitted to being a christian, that many have made assumptions about me. I am hopeful that I can be seen as "me"
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Then, on a personal level, tolerance should never even enter the conversation. If we are all just humans looking out for each other, we can only garner respect.
  
  The moment you label yourself a Christian, you are now under the guise of the very same dogma that demands intolerance towards those who are not Christian. The respect disintegrates.
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  h.a.borcichposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  Are you saying I can't be tolerant and a christian? Or are you saying you are not able to be tolerant of a christian? Or maybe that because I am a christian I am no longer a person? I think you have a few rules that I don't adhere to
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  china manposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think he is saying that you are a christian and you do not normally display tolerance.
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not really, I'm pointing out that none of us need to be tolerant when we can all be respectful. Religions don't allow respect of others.
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  h.a.borcichposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  Somehow all this "tolerance, respect, and religion" stuff is mishmashed into something I don't get. Perhaps I am not as complex as the majority of hubbers.
  I only relate on a personal level. Period. I can only be me - not an entire religion.
  As far as respectful, I do my best. I am honest in my posts, I try to be nice, I am genuine.
  Is it that hard to see people as people?
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  IntimatEvolutionposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Do you know nothing of religion?
  
  Hindus are probably the most tolerant of any religious "group," if not the most tolerant! Your statement is to the point of comedy. Is that what you meant it to be, comical?
  
  With all do respect if you are not trying to be comical, your statements sound incredibly dimwitted. I don't think you are thinking of every aspect, and of every single individual that can make up a group.
  
  You do also realize that somehow your mindset has encompassed Christian group thinking, into now a bias statement against three fourths of the earth's population; with your "Religions don't allow respect of others" comment?
  
  I think maybe you should regroup your thoughts, bring them into perspective, and think before you write. I respect your opinion Beelzedad, and usually enjoy your comments. But with this........, you are off your rocker a bit here.
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, I do, evidently a whole lot more than you do.
  
  That is not only a strawman argument, but it also agrees with what I've been pointing out about tolerance. Thanks.
  
  I understand you must turn to insulting me personally when you fail to formulate and argument.
  
  Another fallacy. Try forming an argument.
  
  Sorry that your personal belief system does not equate to reality and that you have to resort to personal insults in lieu of an argument.
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  IntimatEvolutionposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh Beezie got his feelings hurt. I'm sorry.
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Turning to kindergarten insults, now?
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No, I don't think so, which is why you seem to be confused. You might "tolerate" my opinions when it comes to your beliefs, but I seriously doubt you respect them. Your posts towards me have made that evident.
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  IntimatEvolutionposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Uh, no. I think he is saying what he is saying. Which is strange even for Beez.
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  h.a.borcichposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  I think have demonstrated in my posts that I am ok with people having beliefs of their own even when very different than my own. I have tried to be clear and respectful on it. If it is not tolerance, what is it?
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, you can be tolerant and a Christian. The question is why would you want to be tolerant when instead you can garner and have respect and do away with tolerance altogether?
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  h.a.borcichposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  I do not understand this.
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's too bad. I'm sorry.
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  h.a.borcichposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  Atleast I tried to understand
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for trying.
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  h.a.borcichposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  Quote from Beezledad : Of course I cannot respect your religion because I am forced to tolerate it by it's very own nature of the dogma presented within it and the commands of your god.
  
  From one human to another, without the religion telling you what to do, we can easily respect one another with no need for tolerance on either side, but instead a mutual respect for humanity.
  
  I'm sure you've read or heard enough times on this forum and elsewhere that humanity is evil and god is the way to go. Never shall there be respect of any kind with that ideology in control.
  
  -----------------------------------------------------------
  Now I see what you were saying. It isn't that I am not able to be respectful and tolerate that which I do not subscribe to on belief matters, it is you who cannot. Now I think I understand.
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No, that's not the point. I am respectful of you as a person, but I cannot respect your religion, they are two completely different things. I'm sure that if you put your religion aside completely, you would also have the capacity to respect others as I'm sure you do.
  
  But instead, we are both forced to tolerate each others beliefs or non-beliefs, whatever the case may be. The difference between the two is the religion, nothing else.
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  h.a.borcichposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  Thanks for being sure I "would have the capacity to respect others" if I stopped being a christian.
  Funny how the limits you place upon yourself are so easy to impose upon others.
  What I stated still stands.
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I have placed no limits on myself and have not imposed anything.
  
  You simply don't understand, that much you have made clear.
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  IntimatEvolutionposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe you haven't made yourself clear enough. You make some absurd off the cuff comments about religion, and you expect her to understand what you're trying to say. Yeah, I don't think so. You're the one making the comments, you should be the one to explain your meaning.
  
  However, if you are confused I can understand why you can't. That would also explain why you are now trying to blame her for your inadequateness at making a good argument.
  
  Typical.
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  When you do eventually form an argument, come on back and join the conversation.
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  klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  How's the ol' man doing?
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  kimberlyslyricsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  OK love the avatar! Nice one!
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  IntimatEvolutionposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So Christians cannot be grouped together, under the SINGLE binding fact that they believe in a man named Jesus Christ, and be a respectable individual too?
  
  You're joking right? Because that doesn't even begin to make sense. What it is- is a statement made by someone over thinking their own "individual" ideology and trying to make into a factual philosophy. Well that doesn't fly until its tangible and published. Which well never happen, because, that theory is blown to pieces everyday by heroes doing heroic things in the name of respect, compassion, and love for all earthly things- regardless of being a Christian or Atheist.
  So your philosophy or whatever your statement was to represent, doesn't hold water when put up to the challenge.
  
  Food for thought....
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I see no food for thought, I see only fallacies; Appeal to Belief, Strawman, Appeal to Popularity and Appeal to the Consequences of Belief. I also see a blatant disregard for scriptures and the commands and obedience demanded by your god. You have no argument whatsoever.
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  Don Wposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "What it is- is a statement made by someone over thinking their own "individual" ideology and trying to make into a factual philosophy."
  
  That's an excellent description of my favourite pass time!
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  IntimatEvolutionposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well.........., whatever floats your boat.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I already did. I was invited to this one.
  
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  h.a.borcichposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What does my rely have to do with the other? I certainly meant no digs at you Mark. I won't take responsibility for what I didn't post.
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  Woman Of Courageposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi Mark, Wow, I respect the fact that you are being honest about your behavior. I disagree that we as christians are causing conflicts because we choose to share our beliefs on the forums, and you have no right to try to stop us. It is very disrespectful. I am expressing facts on the christian forums, not OPINIONS. Being frustrated is no excuse for childish behavior and mocking christians. We don't need your explanation, so why waste your time trying to convert us to think like you? I will never come on atheist forum and try to hijack it, and spread ugly remarks all over it. Simple fact is because I believe in maturity as a grown up. I love you and everyone, I will not allow hatred to enter my heart. It is obvious that you hate christians, and there is no good enough reason for that. Take care
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  h.a.borcichposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  We all have our opinions, yet I think a more gracious response would be of more help toward peace. Learning to agree to disagree can be a good thing.
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  Woman Of Courageposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi h.a.boricich, I agree with all my heart. Peace is what we are trying to keep in the forums, but the enemy is using certain people to bring destruction. I have enjoyed reading your posts above. You hit the nail on the mark discussing about freedom , and respect. Thanks for sharing the truth! Have a blessed day.
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What enemy? Why would you have enemies if all you're doing is trying to keep peace? Makes no sense.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  hanging outposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  not so smart are ya
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Enough to know when I see a personal attack in lieu of an argument.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "Woman of courage" Just curious, how did you come to use this name for writing and posting here? Did someone give it to you or is it self determination? What makes you a "woman of courage"? I mean other than claiming to speak for your god? I do admit it takes quite a bit of courage to claim to know what a god thinks and wants and to act as his mouthpiece. Did he personally ask you to do this, as in, voices inside your head?
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  hanging outposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  she is a woman hence the word women, got that. okay i want to go slow so you u n d e r s t a n d clearly. okay randy.....
  
  of courage... do you know the definition of courage? well, you can look it up. Courage comes from within and it means bravery. Perhaps she is brave because of her past, the past can often be harmful, like when that bus hit you randy.
  
  Speaking for God is something that all christians can do.. i mean, get a book by any author and then recite it to people and hurrah! not only do you have the appearance of being smarter than you are, you talk for them.. not a hard concept for a minimally iq'd person. Ask a friend to help you understand.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  While we are answering for others, I will point out that slimy condescending remarks like this say more about you than you would care for us to know.
  Randy is an established and successful hubber, not some moron who comes on hubpages and within minutes of joining starts casting aspersions and posting their beliefs as truth!
  
  Randy is a moral, funny, decent and highly intelligent man who love his life!
  
  It would do you good to read a dozen of his hubs before you Start your snide abuse.
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  Ohmaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  1 hub and 270 posts speaks volumes about why they are here Earnest.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  True that!
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not sure of what the issue is about Been missing lately.. but I will say that for what I do know... Earnest aint lying about Randy.
  
  He disagrees with me on a lot of things but he has always been civil.
  
  And Earnest isn't as bad as he wants us to think. ha
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So - accusing me of being a liar is helping how exactly? I reject this form of love. You do not love me - because if you did - you would not behave this way. I see you do have a very high opinion of yourself, but I do not consider that to be mature.
  
  You have no facts. merely opinions. The facts show clearly 2,000 years of wars and conflicts caused by your religion. I ask for that to stop.
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  hanging outposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Love manifests in many ways. A mother will discipline her child. Yell at her child, spank even, hug, tickle, teach, instruct but one thing a mother will never do is wave and smile and sit quietly while her child walks out into traffic.
  You think because christians get mad at your many insulting inferences that we do not love, then you go ahead and again infer more into that by saying we do not walk the walk.
  You are totally plain wrong.
  Jesus made a whip and chased out moneylenders,
  Jesus got angry a few other times.
  we get angry at you
  often.
  but we sin not nor does it ruin our walk with God, it may have just the opposite effect, i thank god i am not like you.
  have a nice day.
  try to find real truth with honesty and sincerity not just your troubled inferences.
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  hanging outposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  more inference... if you can ever separate yourself from your wonderful ability to base all knowledge on your personal inference, you might actually know/learn something. There are so many false accusations in your posts .. i am prone to believe that you are the one who pretends to be wise and isn't and you spread falseness around in buckets like the ones you shout against. You tell others they have no facts and you decline to supply any. Your main line, unproven to date, is something about 2,000 years of wars and conflicts caused by your religion. I ask for that to stop..
  
  wotalotofrot
  scroll back and see if you can figure out how you got in this position of trying to stop all of christianity by posting in hubpages and not really posting but just by yelling and bullying and lying to christians in hubpages. Hubpages is hubpages mark, get a radiostation.. blogtalkradio.com and at least give ppl the choice of listening to you. LOL. Instead of stomping around here like a mad man proclaiming you see a problem here when there is not.
  There is a real world out there, you are out of touch with it, you prefer to talk about 2000 yrs ago and wars in the past. Get relevant. Get out of the house instead of being on the computer all day, actually go outside when you want to rant on hubpages. Breathe some fresh air or whatever. Clear the cobwebs outta yer brain.
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  Rishy Richposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "Ever considered that Satan may be responsible for stirring up those wars, no of course you don't believe in him do you....."
  
  Of course it is! the Devil has a new name...its called faith, blind faith. Its inside you & this Satan inside you is responsible for stirring up those wars!
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  Woman Of Courageposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Rishy, Your words are so distorted, and manipulative.
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Jeramiposted 14 years ago
Mark Knowle wrote ...
Let me get this straight - the problem is not Christians evangelizing, bearing witness, spreading the word - it is people asking you to keep your beliefs private that is the problem?
-------------------------------------------
What you do not see is that you are doing the same thing as some "Christians ?" are doing, concerning Homosexuals.
If they would just keep their beliefs to themselves, there wouldn't be a problem. Don't ask, don't tell.
That isn't the right behavior in that respect, and it isn't
right for you to do either.

You are as guilty as those that you criticize, but you are throwing your rocks at a different group of people.

You my friend are just as much "THE CAUSE" of all the conflict as "every one else".

When we have to start using self justification tactics, we loose sight of the true issues.

It is pride and self justification that continues to cause conflict. The ... ; "I'm right and you are wrong, and I'm not listening to a fool such as you" mentality causes conflict regardless of who is right or wrong.

In these cases no one is right!!
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  schoolgirlforrealposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  good point
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not even remotely similar Jerami. This is just another ludicrous defense of your religion. The fact that your thinking is so clouded as to see these two as the same really shows how desperate you are.
  
  When I am attacked - as religionsts have been attacking people since its inception - I will defend myself.
  
  No Jerami - I am not. I am defending myself and the people I care for. If peopel like me did not stand up to religion - we should still be burning witches at the stake and teaching nonsensical religious clap trap in science classes.
  
  Nonsense. Read any history book to see the damage your religion does. I have a right to defend myself and I see very clearly - your religion and the Muslim religion heading for each other like a train wreck. I am trying to prevent that.
  
  Keep your religion to yourself and we do not have a problem. It is really not worth responding in depth to your nonsensical argument that Christians wanting two consenting adults' behavior to be made illegal is the same as me politely requesting you stop spreading your religious beliefs - because - YOU are causing the fight by doing so - I am merely defending myself.
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Joe Badtoeposted 14 years ago
Look!

Jesus was a hippie
He liked wine
and liked women

He was a socialist yes you heard me a SOCIALIST ie left wing

He hated material wealth
He hated military rulers
He never followed fashion
He had a beard
He looked stoned
He wore sandals
He shared his food and drink with so many people that's why he invented the water into wine and the loaves appearing out of nowhere thing. They were great parties by the way but the Romans didn't know when to stop.

He loved people
He hated war

He had friends from other religions and they hung out together. He did not have disciples they were just a close group of friends.

His dad approved of his lifestyle

He never evangalised anybody he simply spoke as he saw it, but he clearly underestimated those sharks who would use his simple words to scare people into thinking that a threat to their beliefs was imminent therefore lets go kill some people.

He hates TV evangelists which is why he sent those women to to them.

Jesus doesn't need supposed christians making up rules as they go along. There are no rules, there is no reason to wear a badge proclaiming your faith, just do good deeds and expect no reward. Then you'll get noticed for being a good person and not for being a pain in the ass evangalist claiming to have a front seat in heaven.

Comprende?

CC Jesus, God, Mary and Judas (oh come on what happened to forgiveness?).
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luvpassionposted 14 years ago
This is so cool...I got all this started by saying I had an atheist groupie list.

I wasn't even trying to rabble rouse...I'm good.

P.S. Not an atheist.
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  Joe Badtoeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I tried to start an anarchists group but I didn't feel like I belonged.
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  Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Twisted.
  I so enjoyed this.
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  luvpassionposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Watch this! Actually, there's only a few atheists on hubpages that will take a stand, while others simply back up that stand or discontinue an argument when the others don't join in...hence groupie.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Bulldust!
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  luvpassionposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Uh huh...true dust.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Nothing of the sort. Different people altogether and not surprising.
  People who don't babble over make believe invisible no show fairies can come from many walks of life.
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  luvpassionposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Horsehooey!
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  Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Such language, you two!
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well where do we non followers of the tooth fairy come all from then?
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  luvpassionposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Probably 90% are the same person. Virtual World Atheists.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not even one of them has a sock puppet on any of these threads, and I am sure of that.
  I could give you a list of religionists here who are second and third sock puppets if I could get away with it. I got banned once for naming some of them.
  Many have never written a hub.
  They just come here to spout "the word"
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  luvpassionposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  How are you sure Mr. Earnest have you personally met everyone? They all use the same language. Prove that they're all seperate.
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  schoolgirlforrealposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Same thing go w/ your kind Earnest but Leslie put it right:
  All a Christian has to do is post anything about God and it's like throwing raw meat into a den of hungry lions..(
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "Your kind?"
  Very telling!
  
  Not the truth though is it?
  
  Most replies are to condescending statements, threats from other peoples imaginary divinities, replies to personal abuse posing as something else and statements of fact that are anything but facts aren't they?
  
  Dishonesty seems to be the hallmark of religionists!
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  luvpassionposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You must admit Mr. earnest, it does get a very energetic reaction.
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  h.a.borcichposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What a joke! Get a mirror
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  luvpassionposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes I have a mirror and I like what I see thank you.
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  h.a.borcichposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Think I may have been misunderstood. My comment was directed at Earnests retort.
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  Woman Of Courageposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  schoolgirlforreal, that's so true! I observed this type of behavior every time. Each time a new christian forum is open, they see it as a threat, and there they go barging in trying to stop it.
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  schoolgirlforrealposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  that was one of my points, luvpassion
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  cheaptrickposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Cool dude...I tried to start an Alzheimer's meeting group...but everybody forgot to come...
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  theherbivorehippiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  schoolgirlforrealposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You may have provided the fuel, luvpassion
  but we have our opinions otherwise-we all hold fast to our opinions
  
  One may say all these forums are a waste of time (on this subject)
  Or maybe people learn a thing occassionally
  Either way they enjoy "talking" and "debating"LOL
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Jeramiposted 14 years ago
Mark Knowles wrote
I have a right to defend myself and I see very clearly - your religion and the Muslim religion heading for each other like a train wreck. I am trying to prevent that.

-------------------------------------------

If you were "truly" wanting to stop the train wreck, You would stop mugging the passengers and head on up to the front of the train. Ya gotta stop the engineers. And we can't do that by taking over the caboose.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  that so innit?
  
  U am driving the train
  
  I speek wot to u innit
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That isn't the best answer ya got is it??
  
  Really think about it... what good does beating up the choir
  really accomplish?
  
  Whether you want to admit it or not, prophesy has been marching forward at a steady pace for at least 2500 years.
  
  We can't stop it.
  All that we can do is to refuse to fight in their game.
  
  Hebrews, Christians, Islamist are coming to their final confrontation.
  
  As a believer all I have to do to win, when they say choose sides or die. Is to die.
  
  Those that try to save their life will loose it.
  Those that don't try to save it will gain it.
  
  Those who lead into captivity will go into captivity.
  
  Those that live by the sword will die by the sword.
  
  This, I think, is the most important message in prophesy.
  
  If everyone felt that way the end would be averted.
  
  But NOoo ... them stupid radicals ...
  Going to keep defending their honor.
  
  I plan on one of them killing me early and I won't suffer too much.
  Physical death will be the only out when the time comes.
  
  And it is coming no matter how loudly we protest.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah. I know you have given up and are waiting for Jesus to come back and force me to my knees. I know.
  
  Disgusting belief system that will destroy us, no matter how much I try and change it. Like Jesus did.
  
  I hope you die as you want to. That is it though.
  
  Bye.
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  klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Smile Mark! Jesus LOVES you!
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Uhuh.
  
  DO I have to bend over and take it like a man? LOL Kristian love - you know what is best for me. Yay!
  
  Disgusting religion really.
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  klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Give them a break Mark. You need a new hobbie! Come one down to Miami, pretty girls, the beach is beautiful... great views for your photos! lol
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I loved Miami when I was there.
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  klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Come on down then! Let the Christians breathe for a while!
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Like the last 2,000 years you mean?
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  klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Damn! Mark! I knew you were over the hill but... didn't realize you were a vampire!
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Just hitting my prime, according to my wife.
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  klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Aaaaah! That's what you all say!
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I was just wondering ??? what kind of intelligence does it take to think that if you could change what a few people on "The Hub Pages" believe or do not believe in; is going to make any difference in what a few radical Muslims, radical Christians or Radical Hebrews do to bring about a great Battle.
  
  Even if you could change what 10,000 people here on HP thinks, You will have done ... nothing ... to change the minds of those people that are in control of our future in these matters.
  
  So keep up the good work .. PUT OUT every campfire of Hope that you can find. If that is what makes you sleep better at night.
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  Druid Dudeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Good one. They'll stress on the fact that other belief systems exist, until the one that they have most to fear takes control, and the beliefs become dependent on wether you want to remain attached to your noggin
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  schoolgirlforrealposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Wow. Hear Hear!
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theherbivorehippiposted 14 years ago
Well, not to stir up more controversy but I would like to just say that I am a Wiccan...so perhaps I should start a thread on that? Would all of the Christians not be offended if I started preaching my witchcraft in their direction? Just wondering? I'm sure, all of you (Christian folk) would not appreciate reading my threads every five minutes you come to a forum so why can you not visit the Hubpage forums without a whole list of religious topics that do nothing but get offended by other people voicing their opinion. Obviously you know you are going to spark a reaction so you all really need to accept it or keep quiet because there is ALWAYS going to be an argument or question to your beliefs. I have nothing against you or your religion but you can't be so naive to think people are not going to disagree with you.
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  luvpassionposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  MM
  
  Teri
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  h.a.borcichposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  Honestly, if you posted threads about wiccan things in the religions forums I would not be offended. Call it a unique talent, but I have read plenty of threads on other faiths with great interest. I did not post anything on those threads as I have nothing to offer;however, I did do some reasearch to learn more about what I saw. For me to have jumped in "preaching" would have been rude. Obviously, the talent of observing is not so common.
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  theherbivorehippiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think the purpose of an open forum though is for discussion, not observation. I'm not personally attacking you..just merely saying that "some" people post topics and then get offended when others don't agree with them.
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  h.a.borcichposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Agreed. Public forums are generally for discussion, but if you cannot contribute to the discussion, observation would be better.
  For instance, the wiccan thread was about where other wiccans buy supplies. If I had jumped in judging and trying to share Jesus with them....I think the discussion intended would have been lost. Instead I observed and researched on my own the questions I had. I may have had the right to post but it would not have been the right thing to do.
  Hope I explained myslf better.
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  theherbivorehippiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well of course you are right...if the topic was on where to buy bibles, etc...my comment would be off topic. However, this discussion was on atheists vs Christians so I do believe it was on topic completely.
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  h.a.borcichposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry I didn't realise you were speaking of this thread specifically. I though your initial post addressed the numerous threads being a problem.
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  Druid Dudeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I find, generally, that the philosophy of atheism has been raised to cult level, here, defending their "faith", yet resorting to ridicule and baseless rhetoric. On the other hand, those who embrace theism of one form or another, use some things as proof, which are merely quotes from a book written less than two thousand years ago. My particular beliefs have no problem with modern science, nor with a supreme being. But they also have little in common with the pseudo- science and the pseudo-spirituality that seems to prevail. I would think that such intelligent people would have better things to discuss. Me? WETSU
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  Druid Dudeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry bout that Herbie. What makes you a hippie?
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  theherbivorehippiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  lol I've had the herbivore hippie nickname so long I can't even remember how I got it. It's actually "herbi" for short. That's what you can call me.
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  schoolgirlforrealposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  tell that to the atheists and we can make a deal! free speech........
  You CAN talk about your wiccan but unless there are other wiccans here you may not get much response
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  Druid Dudeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not too many DECLARED wiccans that I have noticed. Geuss they see how well the lions feed on christian flesh in these forums. I'm not a Druid, and have set about to actively pursue schizophrenia as a hobby:) BUT everyone is entitled to their opinion. Resorting to lameness is also permitted, but respectful debate, like boxing, has certain rules. Not knowing/not adhering to those rules just defeats the purpose of debate. People that resort to ridicule are defeating their good debate points.
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  schoolgirlforrealposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  well said.
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  Kathryn LJposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well I am, Herbi and I have no problem in saying it. It's just that Wiccans don't 'witness' like Christians. Being Wiccan is something you 'become' through personal development not something that you decide to be because someone has told you about it. I think it is a deeply personal thing and I take it too seriously to argue with non like minded people.
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  Elizabeth2010posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Herbi... I would not be offended! that is your business and your right! I think mostly that offends is when a topic is started on christianity or something religious... which is meant for christian answers and people come in and totally run the christians in the ground and attack them! I'm sure the same can be said both ways. Just an example! If everyone would respect others! Such as, post in your own area of belief...because there are sections in these threads designed for each belief system. yet nobody respects others. They seem to want to argue and put down others! It's really sort of crazy. But it goes both ways! Christains towards Atheists and Atheists towards christians! both follow each other and bash!
  
  I dont go to the Atheist section myself... but I know people who do! Just watch closely... you will see!
  
  Such as: A thread will be started in the religion/bible area "God is good" and you will get more atheist hit on that thread than christians... just to debunk it!
  
  And it could be said the same for a thread started in the athiest section saying "God is not real" and you will get more christians hit on that thread than atheist!
  Both bash the other then accuse the opposite side of bashing! LOL! It's really sort of childish.. but we all partake in it!
  
  It seems we all have this drive in us to prove our belief system to others!
  
  I guess both sides are human, they can admit it or not! Human we all are!!!
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libby101aposted 14 years ago
Are the children playing again? LOL
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  schoolgirlforrealposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Just a thought-
  
  someday us evolved humans
  
  will look down on this page and mutter "dumb, argumentive creatures" Lol
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  pisean282311posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  humans are both evolve in some areas of life and non evolve in some..it has nothing to do with religion or no religion..the people who made journey possible to the place where human race is now where neither christian nor muslims nor jews nor hindus..they were humans who believed in some other form of religion..now these four are dominant forms ..5k years down the line some other would..world would keep moving on...as far as being argumentive is concerned..arguments are good for growth...yes stand that my religion is only way or my non believe in religion is only way is ofcourse lame thinking but human species would evolve from this phase too...afterall humans have religion , religion doesnot have humans..without humans religion would seize to exist and so humanity is far more important and being tolerant to your views , understanding that world is much bigger than 'my way or highway' is important...
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  schoolgirlforrealposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  so humanity is far more important and being tolerant to your views ,
  
  I don't think people here are tolerant
  People need God anyways for hope and faith whether we have proof or not
  Plus, it encourages Christians and People in general- to have some rules to go by......if man is an animal, he needs some guidance. Resisting that guidance and not teaching out children to love others as Christ loved, to turn the other cheek, Christians are in general a mild, mannered bunch in the whole scheme of things, and anyone who uses the name Christian and is not truly Christ-like is not really a Christian and gives us a bad name.
  
  Just as you imagine, an atheist can give their kind a bad name by coming in here and insulting the person, not what is being discussed. I know non believers who are very kind and have morals, so If I were you, I'd think twice --when I say you I mean all atheists here and everywhere-- Just do the right thing
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  schoolgirlforrealposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If you are unable to do the right thing
  I think you need to find God
  
  If you read my hub An intellignet and logical man,
  You'd see that modernists will say 2 + 2 are 4
  but 2+2=5 or 2+2=5,000,000 because it's more freeing to say it
  
  Well, the truth is the truth -and it will set me free!
  You can't deny the truth and satan is the one who tries to blind people to the truth and it's their own fault if they let him do it.
  
  Milton said he'd rather be a ruler in hell than a slave in Heaven ...
  Well apparently he believed in hell
  What folly
  
  Christians here , you know this is true
  our purpose in life is solely to save our soul and to try and be as
  Christlike as possible
  
  Some people cannot know Christ......perhaps they have never suffered or carried their own cross or perhaps they just hate God or the idea of a God that they have to worship. Whatever the case, they lack the light of Christ and therefore don't and can't shine before men
  
  Most happy, innocent, sweet hearted people Believe and follow God
  this makes us joyful, seeing the good we can do and that others do, selfless acts of charity- not to benefit ourselves but to benefit others.
  Non believers who have this gift are said to have natural grace.
  The only thing we can do is pray for others and be a good example
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  schoolgirlforrealposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And we'll never "win" in these forums because satan or the confusion of satan is always viciously attacking the truth
  
  So, that being said I pray,
  
  St. Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle, be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil. May God rebuke him we humbly pray, and do thou of prince of the heavenly host, by the divine power of God, cast into hell satan and all the evil spirits who wander thoughout the world seeking the ruin of souls . Amen
  
  I pray for sinners and I offer my sufferings to help save their souls
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Wow! That's enough to make anyone want to be close to the porcelain!
  
  Pure Megalomania in full flight!
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  TheVacationLadyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  pisean282311posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  wow..so you think only religion can make humans moral?..well kindly read report on most moral countries..top rated are those which have been less religious countries..so one doesnot need a teacher like character with stick in hand to make person just...there are far better ways to do that..i agree such obselete ways of using threats were applicable during days when religion was formed ...but not now...
  
  coming to sinners...who is you or me to judge who is sinner..sin is subjective matter...as you believe yourself to be christian why are you entering jesus's shoes..let him judge ...may be the person whom you call sinner might turn up to be more pious than person who claims to be pious...
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  china manposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Have you been drinking ? I doubt I could ever agree with any of the infantile thinking of your posts but this one does not even make sense.
  
  And you start with intelligent and logical . . . .
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  schoolgirlforrealposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What a sweet thing to say! You are such a sweet man
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  schoolgirlforrealposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I better pray for you. You seem lost
  
  Dear Lord, I pray for china man that he see the light and accept you as his savior, Amen.
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  schoolgirlforrealposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  pisean282311posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  also you said we wont win in some thread..I can hope in end humanity wins rather than any religion...religion has been helpful in directing human race to the point it could but now religion is causing more troubles in the world and has become dividing force..jesus,muhammad,ram...well great figures but gandhi , martin luther are the ones who can guide human race further..even if we believe that jesus,muhammad and ram had anything to do with divinity ,gandhi ,martin become far more important since they did what they did without any divine power and connection...
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  pisean282311posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  atheist too have obligation towards humanity..they are unbiased and being emotionally unattached to religions can view religion in critical perceptive .They have seen crusaders , witch hunting to 9/11..atheist know what harm religion can do...and atheist also know that religion is not just as tall as humanity is..religions come and go ,human race goes on...In larger perceptive religions would evolve into being more tolerant and understand that 'my way or highway' theme is flawed..If you are concerned about human race , pray that religion becomes more inclusive or else we would see more blood shed all in name of god which still remains undefined and matter of interpretation...world is not just christian or hindu or muslim...beneath the layers of religion lies human which is universal...
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It looks like you just contradicted yourself and refuted your own argument in favor of gods, rules and guidance.
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  schoolgirlforrealposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  this is the answer
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3L2bf18Hatg
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LOL! Yes, we've heard the "Truth" before from guys like that.
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  Woman Of Courageposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ha ha ha, that's funny libby, Smile
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
I just thought a little bit of nonsense from the late great Sir John Lennon may be appropriate here.

'I carn't not believe this incredible fact of truth about
my very body which has not gained fat since mother
begat me at childburn. Yea, though I wart through the
valet of thy shadowy hut I will feed no norman. What
grate qualmsy hath taken me thus into such a fatty
hardbuckle.'

I thought this thread needed that.
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
Oh Sir John, where are you?
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Shadesbreathposted 14 years ago
This is all the same arguments as always, so got nothing to add at the moment, but I would like to say LOLOLOLOL at the OP responding to a bunch of her own posts on page 7, quoting herself and then responding. That was good stuff. Like watching a schizophrenic play scales on the keyboard of their personalities. Actually gave me an idea for a story character.
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  schoolgirlforrealposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What is OP?
  
  I wasn't responding to my own posts- I had more ideas I wanted to express and get them in before the vultures came
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It appears that the "vultures" are picking over the carcass of your dead and rotting religion now. I wonder if you appreciate the hand you - and people like aguasilver - had in bringing it down, much like an aggressive strain of cancer eats you from inside?
  
  The irony is deafening.
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  klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh Mark! You'll come back as a Gospel Choir singer in your next life if you don't stop bugging all the Christians soon!
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LOL U sure? Not sure that is biblical - sounds like you are one of Satan's minions to me.
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  klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  As I confirmed on another forum, I work for Satan - she sure looks and acts like him!
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  Druid Dudeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Come to the Dark Side Luke...I am your father!
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  klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Pappa?
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  schoolgirlforrealposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  that's funny
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  schoolgirlforrealposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  it was kind of you to comment on MY thread though,
  You pay honor to me!
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  hanging outposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Mark
  
  id say the ones who cause the christians grief are the ones with a cancer eating them from the inside.
  If you can't beat it... what... try to bash it harder... lol.
  
  Mark 9:42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that BELIEVE IN ME, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
  Mark 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
  Mark 9:44 Where their WORM DIES NOT, and the fire is not quenched.
  
  Sounds like your worm has started early
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Shadesbreathposted 14 years ago
OP refers to either "original post" or "original poster." It's one of those Internet-speak things; you will see it often in forums.
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klarawieckposted 14 years ago
Let's get one thing straight over here. There are those who believe in God and do not believe in Religion.
Religion separates and does more harm than good, in my opinion. But that doesn't necessarily mean that anyone who believes in a higher power believes in fairy-tales. The HP atheists do tend to go overboard with their comments. You can base your belief on science and facts, but Science still has many things left to prove and to discover. So, it's better to leave some room for growth and let Science evolve at its own pace. If the day were to arrive when Science had proved every mystery in the world, then there would be no point to our own existence. Scientists will have a job to do as long as the human race exists. But it's arrogant for anyone to think they have all the answers - whether you are a believer or an atheist.
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yet, they would have had to glean their beliefs in god from religious scriptures.
  
  If the "higher powers" are invisible and undetectable, how would they even know they exist? If not, then yes, the belief is equivalent to believing in fairy tales.
  
  On the contrary. Where do you read atheists threatening others with an eternity of brimstone and hellfire? Where do you read atheists calling others names and telling them they need to be saved?
  
  Science doesn't require beliefs, it requires understanding. Big difference. I would agree science still has many things left to discover, but that doesn't give credit to religions which have discovered nothing at all.
  
  Sorry Klara, but that makes no sense. Science has nothing to do with whatever purpose or meaning we give our lives, we do that.
  
  Science is simply a method for understanding the world around us. Scientists themselves don't make claims for having all the answers, those claims are inherent only to religions.
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  klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi Beely, I just can't do this today. Hope you are having a better day than me. Sometimes, you look back and realize that nothing two people can argue about is important. This is one of those cases. xoxoxo
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not arguing, I'm Klara-fying.
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  klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  We can't talk anymore Beely. I was yelled at by the girl with the draggon tattoo for proposing to you online, and for excessive forum flirting. If you've seen the swedish film you know what she's capable of doing. I'm not messing with her.
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Don't worry about it, just be your adorable self and ignore the dragon tattooed girl.
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  klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So, when do you start gigging?
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  October 10th is the first one. We're doing a wedding for an AA couple, it'll be a dry wedding. I'm working on learning the last set this week. So far, over the last three weeks I've had to get 30 or so songs under my belt. We've had a couple of rehearsals so far and the other members seem quite pleased with my progress.
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  klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Will you be posting the video on youtube? I'd like to hear! At least a track, no?
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't think anyone will be making videos of us, most likely they will be for the bride and groom. Sorry, we have nothing recorded. The guitar player left this band recently and I'm stepping in to fill his place, so the pressure is on me to get up to speed. We're having another rehearsal this Friday, you're welcome to come over and sit in.
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  klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I wish I could! Any Jackson Browne covers? LOL Hey, are you looking for a keyboardist? I'll even let you say the line every pianist hates - "Play it again, Sam!"
  
  I saw this the other day. What a beautiful acoustic version! What a great song! I love it. So simple, yet it goes so deep.
  
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIlojcd3Pzk
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh no, I can't believe it. I have been said to look like Jackson Browne, even had a couple of teeny-boppers come running up to me looking for an autograph. My hair is shorter now, though.
  
  Sorry, but we don't do any JB covers and we do have a keyboardist, female, and her background is jazz. Great singer.
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  klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's why I asked you about Jackson Browne covers! You had told me already.
  I will have to email you some of my compositions sometime. Be gentle with the critique! lol
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oops, I forgot.
  
  No problem. Critiquing music is so subjective.
  
  There are some ZZ Top tunes, for example, that are great songs but really don't have a lot of lyrical quality to them, not a lot of thought goes into them. While on the other hand, there are song writers like Lowell George, Peter Gabriel, Neil Diamond and David Bowie, to name a few, who spend the time and thought composing very good lyrics.
  
  I think it's all about "hooks" which is something songwriters like John Lennon and Paul McCartney were great at doing.
  
  Listening to tunes that have been written recently, I can't say I've heard some very good lyrical material, no one really stands out as a great songwriter these days. That said, I have heard some great musical compositions behind those lyrics.
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  kimberlyslyricsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  awesome Beelezdad
  
  And when you go with the AA folk just wear a black shirt with white writing tha says
  
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hilarious shirt! Love it.
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  hanging outposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  personally i wouldn't argue anything with them at all, they are everything they call everybody else. IF they want to live in a dismal world of nothing, zeros and ziltch, that is their choice, but i will serve the Lord and all the days of my life will happier than their happiest and their worst day, which i suspect will be death, i will all the more happier than all my happiest happy days combined.
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, and its clear just how much you take advantage of everything science has provided for you while you spend your days productively serving your god.
  
  I would wonder just how happy you would be if your subservience was spent in a cave.
  
  Hypocrisy at it's finest.
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Jeramiposted 14 years ago
Mark Knowles....

But - then I would have finally become what I am fighting against - as Jerami keeps telling me I already am. His motives are not pure though. He just wants me to shut up and stop attacking his precarious belief system.
===========
Jerami (me)

Mark .. I do feel your frustration. I feel it all too often.
It is all too easy for people to begin hating something and before they realize it, they have become worse than the thing that they hate.

I sometimes find my self slipping in that direction myself.
And maybe sometimes I don't catch my self soon enough.

I think that I have the least accepted philosophy of anyone that I know on here.

I have challenged your "TRUTH" concerning the existence of A God. (Exact definition uncertain).

And I challenge many "Religionists"

My beliefs lie right smack dab in the middle.

It is my opinion that most peoples believe systems are based upon 1600 years of misrepresentations of what is actually written in their bibles.
Mark ... You do preach one truth!!!
We have been brainwashed. WE the people; ...You included.

It is almost impossible to read any book without having a predisposition or a subconscious conclusion established as to what we are about to read. Especially when we have already read it once. We miss key elements that cause us to overlook the message as it was intended.

Unfortunately most, if not all believers have heard thousands of interpretations of scripture for many years before they actually pick up their bibles and read it for themselves.

By that time all of those interpretations have been embedded into our subconscious minds to such a degree that we already "think" that we know what those words are telling us before we actually read them.

It is very hard to do!! But if we can see past our preconceived ideas as to what scripture actually says, We begin to see ??????? something other than what we were taught.

It has been almost a dozen years that I have been
de-programing my mind from false interpretations .. and I still see something NEW every day that validates my belief in there being a "GOD".
I have thousands of little details that by themselves would prove nothing. BUT with thousands of little bricks we can build a mighty house.

I can not prove that there is a GOD. I don't know everything !!!! That is FOR SURE
But I can connect the dots in such a way as to paint a very compelling picture as to what Prophesy actually reveals.

And with that I do THINK that I have a much better understand, than I once had; of what has been going on throughout history.

And you aren't as far off as many think.

But "GOD" didn't dunit
Belief in God didn't dunit

Politics and corrupt leaders have been and are still doing it.

Corruption and politics on every level .... Everywhere!
Through out every level of society.

There are none that are innocent

You and most all Atheist have rejected God based upon those same misinterpretations that have mislead "Religion"

Just my opinion.
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lambservantposted 14 years ago
No one is better than the other. For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Romans 3:23 God loves us all whether we believe in Him or not.

I am not sure that their are a lot of true atheiests out there, and I believe like someone else said that being an athiest does not neccessarily mean you hate God, or Christ, or Chrisitanity. You just don't belive or you are indifferent.
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alberichposted 14 years ago
Well Said Klara!
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  klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I wasn't trying to put him down. I am just having a bad day today and don't have the strength or desire to put on my boxing gloves. It's one of those days.
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
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