Our Fantasy Nation

1. 60

   Doug Hughesposted 12 years ago

   "...__In fairness to Pakistan and Congo, wealthy people in such countries manage to live surprisingly comfortably. Instead of financing education with taxes, these feudal elites send their children to elite private schools. Instead of financing a reliable police force, they hire bodyguards. Instead of supporting a modern health care system for their nation, they fly to hospitals in London.
   
   You can tell the extreme cases by the hum of diesel generators at night. Instead of paying taxes for a reliable electrical grid, each wealthy family installs its own powerful generator to run the lights and air-conditioning. It’s noisy and stinks, but at least you don’t have to pay for the poor.
   
   I’ve always made fun of these countries, but now I see echoes of that pattern of privatization of public services in America. Police budgets are being cut, but the wealthy take refuge in gated communities with private security guards. Their children are spared the impact of budget cuts at public schools and state universities because they attend private institutions.
   
   Mass transit is underfinanced; after all, Mercedes-Benzes and private jets are much more practical, no? And maybe the most striking push for reversal of historical trends is the Republican plan to dismantle Medicare as a universal health care program for the elderly...."
   
   From http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/05/opini … ef=opinion

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   1. 60

      Evan G Rogersposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Doug, you've managed to confuse charity and taxes once again.
      
      here's an easy way to remember:
      
      If the "charity" needs to be collected with the threat of jail time and guns, then it's actually a tax.
      
      If the "charity" doesn't need to be collected at all because it's given to you, then it's actual charity.
      
      I hope this doesn't confuse the liberal mind TOO much.

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      1. 60

         Doug Hughesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Evan and I could debate taxes and economics til we put everyone to sleep.
         
         Consider the history you know.
         
         The Great Depression (1939) and the Great Recession - which we are in both followed periods of very low taxes and very lax government regulation. These are facts, not opinions.
         
         The 'best' times for the middle class have happened when unions were empowered to advocate for the worker and taxes were over 80% on the income of the very, very, rich.
         
         Also note that the Ryan plan reduces the number of brackets, to reduce the taxes of the billionaire.

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2. 61

   John Holdenposted 12 years ago

   And yet so many Americans see that as an ideal!
   Hell, it's my money and I won't see one cent go to help others.

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   1. 60

      Evan G Rogersposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Man, I wish people would steal more money from the rich! That'd be awesome! "Charity" *cough* is SOOOO much more important than property rights and freedom!! What is wrong with everyone who disagree with me? Don't they GET it?!

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      1. 59

         Ron Montgomeryposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         
         
         Yeah, that must be it. 

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      2. 61

         John Holdenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Evan, I'm sure that even in the US the rich get to take part in the democratic process and vote.

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         1. 60

            Evan G Rogersposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            But the rich are evil!!! They buy things, and then make things and then sell things FOR PROFIT!! Then they spend their money on things that they want!!! We need to steal their money because they can vote!!! They vote, BUT NOT FOR THINGS THAT I WANT!!! We need to steal their money!!

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            1. 61

               John Holdenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               But Evan, they don't spend all their money!
               Imagine a railway going from A to B and every day you run ten trains from A to B but only one train from B to A, what happens? Don't you eventually run out of trains?
               
               Same with money, send it all in one direction and eventually you end up with a few having most of the money, then your bank has to print more money to replace the money those few have.
               Remember, you don't like quantative easing but then argue for the system that needs quantative easing to work!
               
               Think, even with taxation and spending the rich still accumulate a lot of money.

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               1. 60

                  Evan G Rogersposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Those bastard rich!! Even though the original post on this forum was in response to how THE RICH SPEND THEIR MONEY, we KNOW they don't spend their money!! That's why they DON'T drive BMWs; they DON'T have huge houses; they DON'T invest their money in other businesses; they DON'T buy nice food; they DON'T hire servants; they DON'T buy private planes...
                  
                  EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE RICH AND BUY LOTS OF STUFF, I KNOW DAMNED WELL THAT THEY DON'T BUY THINGS!! I know for a FACT that all rich people live like homeless people. You know that guy that looked like a crack addict on the street the other day? Or that other guy passed out on the side of the road who awoke only to vomit up tequila and orange drink?
                  
                  THEY'RE ACTUALLY RICH PEOPLE WHO DON'T WANT TO SPEND MONEY!!!
                  
                  God damn I hate them so much!!!

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                  1. 61

                     John Holdenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     You really have a problem don't you? All that hate and bile
                     
                     No doubt they spend some money, but they don't spend all their money, they keep a lot out of circulation.
                     But never mind eigh? There's all ways the government to blame isn't there?
                     
                     Have you ever read "The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists" you'd hate it, It explains clearly and coherently how the working man keeps the wealthy man.

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      3. 73

         Jeff Berndtposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I don't mind paying taxers to support infrastructure and education: these things are public goods, and as such, even if I don't drive on the highways, ride on the railroads, or attend (or send my children to) public schools, I still benefit from their existence.
         
         If you don't want to pay taxes, I recommend not using the public roads, not eating anything delivered by any vehicle (because they drive on the public roads), not drinking tap water (unless you get yours from the well on your property), not using the internet (since it was developed by the government) not using your GPS device (another government-derived service), never watch a weather forecast (data from NOAA) , and basically just finding yourself a homestead in the backwoods somewhere and living off the land. That's really the only way you can claim to owe nothing to society. But don't go complaining to anyone when someone starts building a road right next to your homestead.

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         1. 60

            DTR0005posted 12 years agoin reply to this

            The Militia and Patriot Movements of the 1990's...loll.. Then Clinton and Reno were the catalysts. I am not certain what exactly brings out the "squirrels" when a Democrat takes the White House, but certainly since Carter, that has been the case.

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3. 60

   recommend1posted 12 years ago

   At last - a real thread about real things !  time to wake up guys (and dolls) smell the coffee and forget the buslh!t religious threads, the paid for political threads and get where it is at!
   
   This is the issue - how much longer are you guys going to accept being shat upon and take up the democratic right to vote the sleazebags and corruptibles out and a real person IN - ANY ANY ANY fu@@ing person will do instead !

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   1. 75

      lovemychrisposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      This is what our politicians used to sound like...
      
      After Martin Luther King was assassinated a few months before on April 4, 1968, Robert Kennedy spoke these words in an address to the City Club of Cleveland:
      
      “We must recognize that this short life can neither be ennobled or enriched by hatred or revenge.
      
      Our lives on this planet are too short and the work to be done too great to let this spirit flourish any longer in our land. Of course we cannot vanish it with a program, nor with a resolution.
      
      But we can perhaps remember – even if only for a time – that those who live with us are our brothers, that they share with us the same short movement of life, that they seek – as we do – nothing but the chance to live out their lives in purpose and happiness, winning what satisfaction and fulfillment they can.
      
      Surely this bond of common faith, this bond of common goal, can begin to teach us something. Surely we can learn, at least, to look at those around us as fellow men and surely we can begin to work a little harder to bind up the wounds among us and to become in our hearts brothers and countrymen once again.”
      
      RIP RFK, killed this day in 1968.
      ****
      
      And--this actually sounds like Barack Obama.
      
      Anyone good is gas-lighted or killed.....that's why we have the sleazy money-grubbers that we do. Not all of them, but enough.
      
      I'm going for Obama....my intuition tells me something, and I have learned to listen to it.

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4. 60

   knolyourselfposted 12 years ago

   When you steal from the rich you go to jail.
   When the rich steal from you they get promoted. Now that is charity.

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5. 79

   Uninvited Writerposted 12 years ago

   I see Evan still hasn't realized that people don't get rich by themselves. They have a lot of help from their employees...
   
   And not everyone's parents can afford to send them to school so they can get a decent job when they graduate.

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   1. 61

      John Holdenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Well the title of the thread is "Our Fantasy Nation" why shouldn't Evan be allowed his fantasies?

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   2. 0

      jerrylposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Even if their parents could barely afford to send them to school, the decent jobs would most likely go by way of nepotism, be outsourced, or the business would be relocated  to another country!
      
      Stop the world's central banking systems, and most other problems would be solved.  If we take away the ability to control the money from TPTB and bring the control of whats supposed to be a representative government back down to the local level where it belongs, we may be able to save this country, if it's not too late already.  Reelecting the same JERKS has proven that TPTB have only one goal, (self enrichment at the expense of the masses), through deception!  Promises before elections and the track record of results of post election history show exactly what I am talking about. All of the staged partisan bickering is our elected official's way of using misdirection tactics to keep the people dumbed down.  In reality, each party is just as corrupt as the other.  Vote them out and pass tougher laws regarding corruption, and keep lobbyists out of government.  How many former elected politicians have become powerful lobbyists? They screw you when they are in office, and again after they leave office.
      Wake up!

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      1. 60

         Moderndayslaveposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Thank you, Jerryl 
         http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/06/04 … ire-squid/

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