What is the most solid evidence (for or against) God creating...

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   cydroposted 12 years ago

   What is the most solid evidence (for or against) God creating the Universe?

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      Merlin Fraserposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      The most solid evidence Against a God creating anything is the Bible.
      
      A less scientifically factual, inaccurate account of creation it would be hard to find in any book ever written.  Why anybody, umpteen thousand years after it was written, still believes it to be true is quite frankly beyond comprehension.

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         earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I agree.
         A god as insecure and needy, violent and vicious as the biblical one defies logic entirely.
         
         No godlike traits I can see in being so weak minded.

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            wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            The people at that time were the same way - violent, barbaric and without morals that we would recognize as such.
            
            The gods they designed were inevitably the same way.  As time went on and people gradually became more civilized their god had to evolve with them; thus today's Christian god is one of love and peace (or so the claim goes).
            
            It is easier to evolve your god (simply ignore the parts of it you no longer find acceptable and pretend they don't exist) than it is to invent a whole new god and gather a whole new group of followers.

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               earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               So true, threats from the gods would have been believable to an ignorant barbaric people.

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      Titen-Sxullposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      The best evidence against? Depends on the God concept and creation story we're discussing. Most God concepts fail logically and most arguments for the existence of God also fail logically.
      
      Thus far the best argument I've heard for God, or at least the hardest to logically assault, is probably the deistic watch-maker deity. The deistic God typically creates the Universe as a sort of Prime Mover, a First Cause to get things rolling, to set all the gears in place and put them in motion. Than this God disappears and doesn't intervene, doesn't even have to directly create mankind (we just evolve naturally). While deistic claims don't have any evidence, and most rely on a logically flawed First Cause argument they are pretty much impossible to falsify or prove one way or the other.
      
      Note that in no way are deistic claims EVIDENCE, but their arguments are ones I see no real reason in arguing against since their version of God doesn't involve itself in human affairs and is an indifferent benign one. As I stated there are still usually logical flaws in deistic arguments but as their God concept is often unfalsifiable it's impossible, and largely irrelevant IMO, to even attempt to prove or disprove said deity.

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      kessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      There is need for the question because there is actually very little understanding of either.
      
      So the reality is this..
      
      Where there is an understanding of God there is also the understanding of the universe...and vice versa..
      
      In this age knowledge is plentiful and deceives men because they seek after it to glorify themselves, instead, they should seek after understanding wherein they might find Truth, for where there is one you also find the other.
      
      
      In the end no man shall be found guiltless because they all exist within God and the universe and at the same time the universe and God exist within their own-self.

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         LCaversonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Well spoken...

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      ibneahmadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      The Creator God has talked to sincere, honest, truthful and humble persons in almost all the periods and almost all the regions of the world.These persons are called messengers prophets of the Creator God; they had no political agenda.

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   TattedKajunposted 12 years ago

   This is really a Catch 22, to me. As far as I have found there isnt any "solid" evidence to uphold either side. The Bible always assumes, and never argues Gods existence. Although everything else had a beginning, God has always been. This is where faith comes into play. To have faith that God created everything seems to make more sense, to some. Though it cant be directly determined which came first...
   I personally cant deny Gods existence. After being a non believer for so long, I had a dramatic change of events occur in my life. It was a long process, a lot of doubts and questions. Im still struggling with it, mainly because it cant be proven to me. But having faith and seeing the power of prayer work firsthand, its hard for me to deny it.

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      LCaversonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I believe you are amongst many who feel the same way. To have faith, to see a miracle that can't be explained, and try to define God, or put into words what or why you believe something sometimes just can't be done. You either believe or you don't. It's sometimes just as simple as that.

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   Shadesbreathposted 12 years ago

   Against
   The most solid evidence against is the development of our understanding of how things work over the last several thousand years. The number of things that used to be explained by magic and superstition has been declining precipitously, and the trend seems to suggest there is a rational answer for everything, we just haven't found them all yet.
   
   For
   The most solid argument for some kind of supernatural or magical being is wonderment. Every human society on Earth that we have found has some form of supernatural system/religion in place. And while my answer above explains that away on the surface, one has to find it curious that every culture ultimately comes up with gods of some kind or another. Why is that? It's like there's a default "god seeking" instinct just like there's a default nursing instinct at birth.
   
   That said, I suspect that it might also turn out that once it were determined that there was a greater being/beings that created us, it too had a creator and it is only greater than us because of how insignificant we are. It is merely a matter of scale rather than divinity. Which sort of brings the first answer back into play again, followed by the second on a grander scale, ad infinitum.

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   Amanda Severnposted 12 years ago

   There have been any number of instances world-wide of man-made objects being discovered in solid chunks of coal which were laid down literally tens of thousands of years ago. If you want to check this out, just google and you'll find quite a list. Some artefacts are even on display in museums. For me at least, there exists the possibility that neither the Bible nor the modern version of 'evolution' completely hits the mark. I suspect that the history of man-kind goes back to the time of the dinosaurs or beyond. At some point in ancient history some terrible disaster hit the planet destroying a global civilsation which may very well have been at least as advanced as our own. The few survivors soon lost their skills. After all, we all know how to turn on a computer, or drive a car, but how many of us know how to manufacture these things? The stories of these people, however, would have been handed down, generation after generation until the tales became mythic.

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      earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Some very interesting thoughts here, the Australian aboriginal finds now go back 46,000 years, and some of their dream time has some interesting ideas and imagery that seem to indicate a break with something known before.
      
      I don't know how old mankind is, but one of the resident geniuses here will have some data to add to this discussion hopefully.

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      Sherlock221bposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      As far as I understand it, modern man is only a few hundred thousand years old, but dinosaurs became extinct 65 million years ago.

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   recommend1posted 12 years ago

   The most weighty evidence is that there is no need for a god.  Everything that is attributed to a god figure founders on the simple of argument of where the god might have come from.  All the same reasons for the existence of a god apply equally to the existence of matter and energy.  A god is just unnecessary.

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      Shadesbreathposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Yeah, but it makes you feel good to know your cosmic mommy is watching out for you and waiting to give you a hug when scary death comes.

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         recommend1posted 12 years agoin reply to this

         and this is probably the main reason people go for the god idea, a replacement mommy and daddy.  When we truly grow up we can discard such childish toys and take up the grown up things like responsibility for ourselves etc.  And death is just the inevitable consequence of living - I don't fear it in any way, the idea of a permanent lie-in is quite appealing in some ways

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   livelongerposted 12 years ago

   The most solid evidence for is that the universe exists without any understanding yet about how it came into being. Something coming from nothing defies logic and our understanding currently.
   
   Whether creation came from a creator or something else entirely really isn't up for debate, since there's no reason to believe one theory or another because there's no evidence for any of them.
   
   The most solid evidence against is that there's no evidence that any one conception of a creator is more compelling than another.

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      Evolution Guyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Gosh. Now u r sounding like all the other religionists. And as there is no evidence that god does not hate homos. - I take it u now agree that god must hate homos?
      
      Gosh!
      
      God hates homos becoz there is no0 evidence against that.

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      Sherlock221bposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Something coming from nothing is a very difficult concept to understand.  Yet the belief in a god is just that.  Believing in god only puts the problem back one step further.  If god created the universe, the question has to be - what created god?  To explain this by saying god did not have a beginning, but has always existed, is also illogical, since according to the laws of physics, everything has to have a beginning.

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         livelongerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         All of it is illogical. None of it sounds more valid than any other theory.
         
         Here's another. Maybe we are G-d, or rather, our descendants are.

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   Cagsilposted 12 years ago

   The true understanding of the Universe and how it came into existence, is knowing that it is a continuous(repeating) process.
   
   The Universe expands and contracts all on it's own cycle. This knowledge is already part of the knowable knowledge available to humankind.
   
   No god required.

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   Sherlock221bposted 12 years ago

   We are all so small and unimportant.  We sit and try to work out between us what the purpose of it all is and how it all began.  Yet we inhabit one small planet in a galaxy of billions of stars, and who knows how many planets.  And our galaxy is only one of billions or even trillions.  Added to this the latest idea of cosmology, that everything we call the universe may in fact be only one amongst billions of other universes.  And we don't even have long enough to try and work out what we believe, because our lives are so very short, and before we know it we have to return to that state of non-existence from which we came.  It all seems so pointless.  Yet, we spend what little time we have fighting with each other over who has the correct understanding of what life is all about.  And considering that every species is finite, and because there is so much to discover, the human species will disappear, before it has discovered even a fraction of of what is out there.  Then our planet can continue, as if we were never here, and who knows what species will evolve in the future, when man is no longer here to destroy what once was a beautiful planet.  I also find it ironic, that whilst we are the only species evolved enough to destroy the planet, we are also the only one which can appreciate the beauty we are destroying. If God exists, then he has to be a comedian.

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   Emile Rposted 12 years ago

   The most solid evidence for and against is the same. Perception of personal experience. You either think you've felt evidence or you haven't. We all  get the same information, but we all view the evidence differently.

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    spiritualspark3posted 12 years ago

    Human beings are said to have four defects:
    1.Imperfect senses.
    2.Sure to commit mistakes.
    3.Invariable illusion (what ever attracts we are tempted towards it).
    4.Tendency to cheat others.
    
    With our imperfect brain we create imperfect machines (with friction loss or not 100% efficient) then we experiment so many things, so many brains involved, the maximum level of imagination is reached and when things are beyond imagination, science gives us assumption. How many laws are there in science without assumptions. One and only one i know is The Law of Gravity: to every action there is equal and opposite reaction. As per scriptures also it is the law of nature, sow and reap law. Rest all laws of science have K as a constant. If we have to assume then why to experiment,lets assume each and every thing, why to spend billions of dollars for assuming in the end
    
    Coming back to the topic of discussion, when we need light we need a bulb and someone to switch it ON. How is it there is no one behind sun the Supreme source of light, that has perfect operation of day and night. Denying the fact that there is no one operating sun, one should also agree that no one created bulb and there is no need of anyone to put it on, which is not a fact. If humans can make bulb, God can be the only one to make Sun. Nothing exists own its own, let it be as tiny as needle it has to be created.

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       wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       #2 is correct, anyway; you have confused the law of gravity (best expressed mathematically) with Newton's third law of motion!

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          earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          and seem to be back with worshipping Ra who was one of those gods that started the rot.
          "Sun comes up in the morning because we pray to it."

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