Do you believe in god?

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jomineposted 12 years ago
Do you believe[belief:to have confidence or faith in the truth of (a positive assertion, story, etc.); give credence to.] in god or do you believe in the authorities(parents, priests....) who say god exist?
As far as I'm aware nobody has seen or heard from god.(If you really think you have, its time for you to see a psychiatrist). All the "god experiences" are due to taught behavior and bias.(When a child escapes from an accident he never says god helped, but later learn it from its parents)
So how can anybody say "I believe in god"?
Aren't they really saying "I believe in my parents/ priests/ leaders"?
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  Freegoldmanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I dont beleive in God bt i beleive in spirits
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  jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The question remains the same. Have you seen and talked with spirits to believe in them or do you believe those people who say spirit exists?
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  bornblond8dgposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  God is spirit, who came to earth in the body of Jesus Christ and gave himself for us so that when we die if we ask him into our hearts and for forgiveness of our sins we will live again with him in heaven...God Bless!
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  OutWestposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  We have many senses to know God is there. And when a person encounters a situation that they feel God helped them through it is all the proof they need. It can be where the person makes the decision or feels that He is there and not be an idea planted in their head from someone else.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Are these senses science has yet to discover? Are you the only one who knows about them?
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  OutWestposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  They are called feelings. And we all have them.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Our feelings are not senses. Start with Biology 101 for further information on the human anatomy.
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  OutWestposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'm guessing that love doesn't exist for you either.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Sure it exists, what does that have to do with you stating that emotions are senses?
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  OutWestposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'm pointing out that with our senses we develope a feeling.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Okay, but feelings are still not senses, they don't have the necessary tools to function like senses. Simple anatomy.
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  OutWestposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That is true. I do stand corrected.
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  Smokingwheelsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  ""As far as I'm aware nobody has seen or heard from god.(If you really think you have, its time for you to see a psychiatrist)""
  
  I did but I left that part out when I did not see my refection in the water.
  However I did look more than once.
  Well look on the bright side, no cooking, no cleaning for 30 days.....save money as well free food....
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  vineyardfauxcomposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  WOW you are way of ,the word of God says that man is a fool if he says there is no God ,I know Him and walk with Him ,He is very real and is there for those who seek deep within the the heart for the heart is His throne,How I met Him I called on God when I lost total control of my Ford F15 that when it was all over was broken into 2 pieces ,my hair was down to the middle of my back in those days when I pulled myself back up onto my bench seat I looked into the mirror and my hair was standing out end to end in an orb,no outer body exp,just an orb I chuckled and it dropped my words were WTF thats how I met Him that was over 28 years ago ,and yes He does speak to His children even in todays time if we would just listen,some would say that its all a bunch of Bs but there opinion doesn't matter Hes awesome and is still seated in heaven .your decieved and this as well can be dealt with for I to was once decieved ,I pray Gods Holy Spirit gets a hold of you in your night dreams and may He call your name for He created you .And new you before you entered your mothers womb.good luck on you quest.
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lea86posted 12 years ago
Are you created by non existing sources, or the evidence abstract truth/an energy of truth?You were blinded because you are the non believer. An understanding of God lead by faith not by sight, and your understanding is based on science and zero spiritual insight. Non believer need a psychiatrist but believer is based on faith, do you know about faith?Believer believe in God because they have the heart to feel it, and you believe that when people die,there is nothing but darkness.
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  jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What is this rant all about?
  
  What is the meaning of this?
  
  If you see or hear things which are not there, its called delusion and most commonly associated with psychotic disorders.
  
  Excuse me, did you hear what he/she/it said, to believe that?
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  princess gposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And who created your God? A non existing source? Oh, I forget, HE created HImself. Because that makes more sense.
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, god made himself, then became his own son then killed himself.
  Apparently because he was very dissatisfied with every thing he made, so he destroyed all but eight humans. He even wiped out all the birds! I dunno, maybe they were all as bad as our parrot.
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earnestshubposted 12 years ago
No
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  jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  
  To whom, is this 'no' directed to earnest?
  If god exist, he should exist by definition, and has nothing to do with our belief, or absence of it.
  We can believe only what is told(or an event occurred), so I'm curious what this believers mean when they say "I believe in god", is it meaningless ramble?
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It is a direct reply to your OP jomine.
  
  No, there is no god, only the psychotic ramblings of the religiously infirm.
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  jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  My only question is, when they say they believe in god, aren't they actually saying they believe in their parents/leaders/priests/ancient people whom they have no idea about or their books?
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That sums it up pretty well I reckon.
  
  First comes indoctrination, then the belief in the book.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Only in your mind. By trivializing what others believe you put yourself into a position of superiority. How is your philosophy different from those that claim to be theists?
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  jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  May I ask, how is that so?
  I'm merely asking what does it mean to say "believe". Existence is not believed, its a fact, you believe in an event or what people said. (when i say i believe my father what I'm actually saying is I believe what my father said, so to believe in god I've to hear what he said, but nobody heard anything from god yet). I'm neither a theist nor atheist.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I, too, do not lay claim to either title. But, you are asking that others process the information offered by the reality we exist within in the exact same manner as you have. You are, in essense, displaying the qualities of theism minus the god. Yours is the religion of your own mind, in search of followers.
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  vineyardfauxcomposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I agree with Emile on her statement is head on.,I look at this nation before 1962 ,and after 1962 I long for the time before I was even born lol .
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  ibneahmadposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The Creator God has conversed with people in all regions and all times; such people are called messengers prophets.
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  jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  There are so many patients in the psychiatric wards who claim that.
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  ibneahmadposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The messengers prophets were normal persons; and very successful practical people; in fact a model of normalcy.
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  jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Sometimes its very difficult to recognize a lunatic!
  And who is this prophet, who is not a myth.(from your list the only one who lived was Muhammed, and he had signs of epilepsy. Even if he was normal, what he did was called plagiarism.)
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  ibneahmadposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Your source for that?
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  jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  source of what?
  That he had epilepsy?
  Read the signs of epilepsy.
  That he plagiarised?
  The bible was written 600years before Quran.
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  ibneahmadposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Please quote a passage of say 500 words that has been copied from the Bible.
  
  They say about Bible:
  
  “The Bible is a VERIFIED PLAGIARISM of ancient Egyptian texts, namely the Book of the Dead, the coffin Texts, the Pyramid Texts and the heiroglyphs themselves. Nearly EVERYTHING in Christianity can be traced back to ancient Egypt including and especially the story of Jesus Christ. The Book “Christ in Egypt: the horus-Jesus Connection” uses nothing but the PRIMARY sources that I’ve mentioned and details the Jesus plagiarism and thousands of other parallels. ”
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No, they are called patients by the medical profession.
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  Merlin Fraserposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And Nutters by the rest of us....!
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  True dat!
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  PastorTorchposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  To believe in a thing is more than to agree with someone. It is more than a mental assent to understand or visualize a thing. Belief is that, but it also require an act, based upon the faith. Men have not seen God, it's true. But neith have any of seen an electron. Science tells us that they exist, but no one has ever seen one. So when I walk over to the light switch and flip it on expecting electrons to flow through hidden wires and heat up a filiment in a bulb so that it produces light... that would be an act of pure faith if I had never seen it work. If I was just told about it, and acted in accordence, believing I'd been told the truth. If I flipped the switch and nothing happened, then I'd know I'd been lied too. If I flip the switch and light shines, faith becomes fact and my experience has taught me a truth. So it is with God. If it does not work like you've been told, were you lied too or just misunderstood what was said?
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  Jo_Goldsmith11posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Pastor Torch! You have said it beautifully and Perfectly! This is how a person "believes" in God or in anything...Take care!
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  LOL! Yes, we've seen electrons and no, flipping a light switch is not an act of faith if you know the power is not out.
  
  That has to be one of the lamest reasons to believe in God.
  
  We certainly know when we've been lied to.
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  OutWestposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe it is Troubled Man because the physics involved in the atom and the flow of the electron are so complex no one truly knows how it works. To imagine that everything is composed of this tiny invisible atom just shows how much unseen and really unknown there is in our universe. But maybe some being knows it all...God of course. This is to me some of the strongest evidence to believe in God. It is so caluclated and complex it seems impossible for it to have just happened all by itself.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What you're saying is that because you have little to no understanding of atoms and electrons, it gives you ample reason to believe in God.
  
  Seems the only problem here is a lack of education.
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  OutWestposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Typical atheist to assume we know so very much. It's called intelligent design and that means there is an intelligence behind its creation and existance.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  LOL! You know so very much.
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  OutWestposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you. Finally you are starting to understand. We know very little but it is quite possible there is a being that knows all the science behind everything in this universe. From the stars to life. I call that being God and believe Him to be the creator of it all.
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  ibneahmadposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I agree with you.
  
  Another thing is that He has conversed with people; so He cannot be denied naturally.
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  jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yea, Yesterday we(me and Mr.God) were discussing there things over a coffee!
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  ibneahmadposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I believe in the Creator God; it is very natural to believe in Him.
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  jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Just like my 5year old niece believe in toothfairy, its very natural to believe in her, you know!
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Good for you!
  
  Too bad though that God is such a putz for keeping all that scientific knowledge to himself rather than sharing with us. It would be great if we could cure cancer and get rid of fossil fuel energy systems.
  
  I'm not a big fan of that kind of god.
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  OutWestposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Another big cop out. God is responsible for...
  Did you ever consider that there is a purpose or that some thing we as a human race are responsible for. Cancer is related to all the chemicals in processed foods. Is that God's responsibility. And I'm sure we could never understand God's thoughts as mere humans. Don't discard something just because you do not understand it. God is more advanced to us than we are to the ant, to which I'll point out we don't even understand.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Our purpose is what we make of ourselves, we are responsible for humanity. Cancer is NOT just related to chemicals in processed foods.
  
  Perhaps, before you make an attempt at trying to understand God, try to understand some real world subjects and ideas first, like cancer for example.
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  OutWestposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The point is stop blamimng God (which you claim to not believe in) for things we (humans) or you do not understand. We cause alot of our own problems.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Exactly, just like we do things to solve our problems, I wouldn't praise God for that, either.
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  Merlin Fraserposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Aren't these questions getting a bit old Now ?
  
  I think if this were a court of law someone would be shouting " OBJECTION ! The question has been asked and answered."
  
  If you Believe: For God's sake give the rest of us a Rest with these constant feeble attempts to keep this tired old subject on the Forum List.
  
  If like Earnest and I you don't belive, I can't speak for him but I am certainly tired of repeating myself every time someone else sees the God Squad subjects drop off the radar and ask the same old stupid question just to have it reappear.
  
  I suppose we could just ignore them in the hope that you will go away when you find you talking to yourself.
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Bravo! That needed to be said.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Which begs the question of why do you do it? Asked and answered in your mind certainly doesn't mean that the difinitive answer has been offered, other than the answer that is difinitive to you.
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  Merlin Fraserposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Emile,
  
  You may have to look at some of my Hubs to answer your questions, there I state quite clearly where God(s) came from, who created them and why.
  
  I also give a fairly reasoned argument about where organised religion comes into the equation why it was created by man and when.
  
  As you say you haven't been around here very long so you may not have seen what many others have seen about the Forum being assaulted and taken over by certain factions with an axe to grind or a brow to beat.
  
  Why do I do it or bother ? Beats the Hell out of me... Maybe if I didn't I might give the illusion that they have won !
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Your hubs will give your viewpoint on the question. It is important to remember that it is simply your viewpoint. I've written a hub too, but it is simply my thoughts on the subject.
  
  Sharing an opinion is one thing. Touting it as truth is no different from the theists. At which juncture I must tell you the same thing. Prove it. Otherwise, it's ego that drives the argument that it is of greater import than any other opinion.
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  Merlin Fraserposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The Hubs I'm talking about are not merely a view point, certainly not mine, they are written after a lot of research into what may be referred to as Pre History, certainly a period in time that predates any form of organised religion.
  
  When you look at the origins of mankind back to a period when they were little more than just another animal life form on the planet, when you research the origins of fear and superstition about the unknown and to them the unknowable you will come to realise who created the spirit Gods and why.
  
  Of course to see any of that you have to be mentally capable of looking far beyond all the clouded issues raised and created by the Biblical stories. If you believe the Bible is the Holy word of a God that this being created the heavens and the Earth in six days, and all human life comes from just two creatures then there is little area for further discussion.
  
  Proof there is proof enough for any who chose to look and it has been presented here on more occasions than I can count, and not just by me.
  
  But all that aside, it doesn’t matter which way we look at anything upon which we still do not have all the answers, some will automatically put God in the gap and be happy with that. However, it seems that the answers look just as neat when you leave God out of the equation.
  
  We know it troubled Darwin when he realised Evolution didn’t require a God just as I’m sure it probably worried Stephen Hawking when he worked out that the shape and creation of the Universe didn’t need one either.
  
  My views and opinions only ? Hardly !
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The conclusions are your ego talking. We all have access to the same information in this reality. The question of god has been at the forefront of man's collective mind since the beginning. How we process the information and answer this question is unique to the individual simply because the final answer remains unknown.
  
  Would not expecting all to come to the same conclusions be a herd mentality? Or is it ego? I see no other options.
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  Merlin Fraserposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  My Ego talking, how do you figure that out ? The collective works, of Darwin, Einstein and Hawking are hardly mine to claim but I appreciate you think I am in their company.
  
  You need examples of a herd mentality surely you need look no further than the followers of any organised religion.
  
  Oh yes FYI the question of God, singular, is a Biblical thing and you need look no further back in history than around 700BC to one King Hezekiah who was the one who passed the laws banning the worship of all the other Gods.
  
  However, since then the Religious leaders, shall we call them Shepherds, have made a damned good living perpetuating the myths with unsubstantiated promises of Life Ever After and Rewards in Heaven...
  
  I'll stick to Facts and History thanks.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  God/gods/afterlife whatever you prefer to name it. We are not talking the biblical god, but the concept of gods in general. And no, I do not see evidence to lump you with Darwin or Hawkins at this juncture. No one is in the company of Einstein. Dawkins? Maybe, on a philosophical level.
  
  The point is ego, and only ego, would push your argument past anything you can state with a final certainty.
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  Merlin Fraserposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I think the only appropriate response at this cuncture is
  
  "Whatever !"
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Not surprising.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Just like the concept of spirits and souls in general?
  
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yep. At least you get the point.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, they are all compiled neatly under the category of goobledegook.
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  Evolution Guyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Just becoz ur too stoopid n skeered to believe and there is nothing to see or otherwise experience doesn't mean there isn't majik that these guys can see.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Was there a point?
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, I am far too intellectually incapable of seeing the same magic you see.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  au contraire. I don't know of any magic I see. Sounds like you are imagining things?
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Spirits and souls are the magic you see that I don't. They are obviously your imaginings.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  When have I argued the existence of spirits and souls? My personal views on that matter are opposed to separate spirits and souls. If you are refering to a comment I made about art, the word soul in that context had nothing to do with the religious concept. It was in reference to an emotional connection that the art generated.
  
  In order to rag someone properly, you need to find the correct angle. You're floundering here.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  How do you separate magic from magic?
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Not sure I get your point. Having a soul is magic to you. Not having a soul is magic to you. Do you have some condition that makes you see magic everywhere?
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, I can see that, the fact that you don't get the point. Is that the magic you refer?
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  This is what I meant. You won't even offer an intelligent response. You are simply looking for something to make fun of, even if you are grasping at imaginary straws.
  
  Or, we are in agreement on a point you can't quite grasp. Not sure sure which is the answer yet.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  LOL! Offer me something for my questions that isn't silly then.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  When you ask me an intelligent question that comes from the angle of someone truly interested and not looking for laughs, I'll offer a serious response.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No you won't.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well, the answer to that would completely depend on you. But, that's OK. I know you aren't serious. Go have fun.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No, it doesn't, not in the least.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I have absolutely no idea what that means, but that is typical of the reaction when someone reads your posts. That is not a compliment. Not an insult, either. Simply a stated fact. You are not interested in conversing on the topic; which makes it difficult for you to follow the conversation. You appear to be continuously searching for a point to argue.
  
  The topic of spirituality is not rocket science. And, before you begin to formulate your response, it is not gobbledy gook. I think one of the problems is you put too much emphasis on your definition of the first two syllables. Until you can remove that little sliver and see further into the definition, I fear you will be blinded by your prejudices.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Here's how it works. Someone asks a question and someone else provides an answer. The answer has absolutely nothing to do with the person who asked the question.
  
  If the answer is gobbledegook, no amount of effort on the part of the inquirer will change that.
  
  So, if the topic of spirituality is not rocket science then you should easily be able to explain it fully without any need on my part to make your explanation credible.
  
  Understand?
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, I do understand that. However, your participation is required in order to have a dialogue, and the nature of your participation is important.
  
  What is in question is; what is your goal? If you are simply looking for debate, one can rest assured that you won't be reading any response in an attempt to gain a better understanding of where the person you are speaking with is coming from. You will be reading it in an attempt to find a flaw.
  
  If you are looking for a discussion, then you have to come from the appropriate angle. That, you might need to work on. On the topic of spirituality, you almost have to give the person you are speaking to a great deal of latitude. I read a lot of things on this site and take a mental step back, only to step back forward and give the speaker the benefit of the doubt as best I can. People are discussing things that are difficult to put into words and sometimes the words used do not come from the same angle I would choose to come from.
  
  There is no 'magic' in the topic in most people's takes on the subject if I understand them correctly, but the language used can certainly be turned in that direction if you are looking for something to laugh at.
  
  Since you haven't asked a question, other than 'Understand?' I think I've answered your question and elaborated on it as well as I can.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  My participation was obvious, I asked a question. The goal of asking the question was also obvious, to get an answer.
  
  If you have no answer, just say so. But, if you continue to bandy around the term, you should at the very least know what it is you're talking about. So far, the answers are just gobbledegook and the use of the term shows nothing but magic.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So, your question is to define the term of spirituality? I can only speak for me. The way people define it varies widely.
  
  Spirituality is finding your place in the universe. It's like your own personal cosmology. Call it, self help, if you want. It's finding your peace with the world.
  
  I saw where you commented that you liked an answer someone gave to the term in another thread and that is true, but talking about it in those terms is, in my mind, emotional and I don't feel comfortable sharing how the whole thing makes me feel. But, that is it. Once you've found your peace, you do feel a connection to the physical world that you never felt before.
  
  The concept has nothing to do with ghosts, gods or anything else that falls into the supernatural. It has nothing to do with parting traffic with your mind or walking on water. You don't get to have out of body experiences. My spirituality has to do with feeling the connection to all of life.
  
  Einstein probably put it best when he said Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circles of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty . His words define the quest for spirituality in a poignant nutshell to me.
  
  Now, if you are going to make fun of me. Be nice about it.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, that was the question posed some time ago. I got one fairly good answer that was relevant.
  
  I won't make fun of you for answering the question. That was your personal take on it just like the many personal takes others have on it.
  
  It doesn't really explain anything or can be considered valid in any way other than from your own personal view.
  
  Spirituality as defined in a dictionary as just: Concern with things of the spirit.
  
  So, what's a spirit? There are lots of varying definitions of that one.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And so we come full circle, to the beginning of our acquaintance.
  
  I don't know what dictionary you are using, but the one I just looked at shows the definitions as
  the quality or condition of being spiritual or
  
  church property or revenue: the property or revenue belonging to a church or church official
  
  Neither definition matches yours, or is of any help in the discussion. The first one seems circular and the second pointless. But, you are thinking in unidimensional terms. You can't do that when you discuss spirituality. You can't box people into a definition that suits your agenda. Some people might be talking on that level, but most won't be.
  
  And yes, that is my personal take. That is the entire point of spirituality. It's a personal journey. A personal view of how you fit into the universe. You may get people to agree on some aspects, but you will never get agreement across the board. It's personal and it is meant to be.
  
  Throw the term spirit away. It is not part of the definition of the term as most nonbelievers define it. Think of spirit as subconscious mind. People are trying to get in touch with their whole self.
  
  Spirituality for someone like you, might be best understood as soft core atheism. I doubt I would argue anything with an atheist except whether or not your consciousness continues on in some form. But even that has nothing to do with spirit. It has to do with something else entirely different. I don't expect to be me for eternity.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, they do match. I found the second definition as well but didn't post it because it is irrelevant to the discussion, however you are correct in that they are both rather pointless to the question.
  
  Definitions don't suit my agenda, they are just definitions that we use to communicate our thoughts.
  
  What are you talking about? The definition of spirituality has everything to do with spirits. You can't just toss it away and redefine words at your whim.
  
  No, I would define soft core atheism as soft core atheism, whatever that is.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  OK. Maybe you are right. So, if I think I'm spiritual and I have to use the word spirit in that, then I would describe spirit as consciousness.
  
  Have fun with that.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  All you're doing is sticking a label on another word that has nothing to do with the label. Pointless.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You are difficult at times. Tell me the truth, are you serious? Are you truly unable to view the multiple levels of meanings of words and concepts?
  
  If not, you appear to be having a difficult time formulating responses that can drive your point home. This narrow focus holding words down to simple meanings isn't working.
  
  You ask what a spirit is, you obviously have some type of definition in mind that you refuse to consider reviewing to see if you might have jumped the gun.
  
  I, on the other hand, have no problem admitting when I find out that I am wrong, or considering other takes on the matter.
  
  Please, by all means, enlighten me as to how you see it.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  If we don't keep to the definitions of words and begin attaching them to other definitions because we feel like it, those words then lose all meaning. I might suggest you beef up your vocabulary.
  
  The term 'consciousness' provides me with a lot of meaning and understanding. Attacking the term 'spirit' to it loses all of that meaning and it becomes gobbledegook.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That isn't true, by any stretch of the imagination. I think you know this. If that were true there would be no double entendres.
  
  My vocabulary is just fine, thank you very much. I didn't do too poorly on the test they had the link to in the other thread and I give my share of free rice quite rapidly.
  
  Good for you. But, you were asking me to define a term that has no concrete definition. It is defined by how it is seen in the eye of the beholder so therefore can only be shared by comparing it to something we both understand. I would have assumed that your knowledge of the word 'consciousness' would have helped you envision what I was speaking of when I used the term spirit which (by the way) you forced me to use.
  
  Yes, I see that and, as I said, eye of the beholder.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  They are meant to exploit ambiguity and are phrases, not just words.
  
  No concrete definition means the term is mostly useless and if so, there isn't much to share or understand.
  
  Talk about your consciousness and I can relate to that, talk about spirits and it's all just gobbledegook.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Must we continue to argue the simplest of points? The definition for double entendre (straight from the dictionary)
  
  a word or phrase having a double meaning.
  
  I bolded the word word to help you see it better.
  
  So, I am to assume words we use to ascribe feelings and concepts are useless? How many words are you advocating throwing out of the dictionary?
  
  There's no such concrete thing as gobbledegook. I wish you would stop using that word. It makes no sense. It's rendered meaningless since I can't envision what you are talking about.
  
  But, seriously. Tell me why you keep asking everyone what spirit is. Are you simply trying to point out a fallacy or are you truly trying to find an answer?
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, that's why I bolded my quote above, so that you could see I did not exclude words as being used for double entendre. Phrases are used more extensively, if that helps you to understand.
  
  I don't know what you're talking about. Where did I say we should throw out words from the dictionary? Are you talking with someone else?
  
  Still don't understand why questions are asked?
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Since you were kind enough to share the opinion that I beef up on my vocabulary, perhaps you could take a moment to consider how you put the words you do know into sentence form and reflect on why you do it. The comma separation in that sentence denotes that you are clarifying the first part of your sentence. In essence, saying that the double entendre is for phrases, not words. Had you wanted to clearly share the intent you are saying was your original one, you might have simply left out the comma or added a word or two; such as 'not just' before the word phrases, and then changed the wording behind your comma to 'and also words'. By doing this you would have more clearly stated the intent that it took an additional post for you to clarify.
  
  If this was the original intent of your statement, it does beg the question why you would have made it. Are you not, in essence, agreeing with my original post? I must say, that would be out of character for either of us to expand on a point of agreement.
  
  When you advocate the idea that words must have something concrete to look to in order to define them you are clearly ignoring the fact that (were we to follow your train of thought) words that define emotions, feelings and concepts would then be excluded from our vocabulary.
  
  And are you still avoiding the question?
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That pretty much amounts to a 'whatever'
  
  LOL! That's your conclusion, not mine. How you arrived at it is puzzling.
  
  By drawing that conclusion, you ignore every piece of literary form that describes emotions and feelings with eloquence and clarity. It would imply one is not very well read.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Not by any stretch of the imagination. What it equates to is a great deal of suspicion as to whether that was, indeed, your original intent; however, it is also attempting to give you some latitude by assuming that I might have simply misunderstood your intent due to some problems as I presented in my response.
  
  This conclusion was drawn by reading your responses which, by your own words, imply that although you might be well read, you could easily have missed the meaning any given author was attempting to convey. Since you insist on very, very (and not to belabor a point) very limited scopes of definitions for any word. If you are not willing to consider the fact that you have to think (to ensure you are using the definition that is on the mind of the writer as the word is set to the page), you are bound to be confused; which is prone to cause contention.
  
  You cannot truly understand anything if you are not willing to attempt to find a way to see through the eyes of the writer.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You're focusing way too much on intent and getting hung up on motives. Pointless.
  
  I insisted nothing of the sort, you are drawing false conclusions.
  
  Thinking causes confusion? Do you avoid it as a result?
  
  If the writer fails to convey the image they are attempting to portray through poor use of vocabulary, no amount of willingness on my part will change that.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What other would I focus on other than your intent, unless I had no interest in what you had to say?
  
  You stated No concrete definition means the term is mostly useless and if so, there isn't much to share or understand.
  
  How else am I to take the term concrete other than as;
  Existing in a material or physical form? You are the one insisting on sticking to the most common definitions of words. If there is nothing concrete to look to, then I can only assume you don't consider the term defining it to be a valid word.
  
  Do you think that taking my point and turning it around on me is a solution or a well reasoned response?
  
  Agreed, however; if you don't understand the subject matter you can also become lost, whether the writer is competent, or not.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes!! Someone else who sees the light. Happy day.
  
  But seriously, that is just the way you see it. Which is perfect for you. You can't expect everyone to agree with you, or feel the need to justify their personal views to you. I have no intention of giving you the opportunity to know what I think. I may not know you, but I know the type. You don't take anything seriously on the subject of spirituality. And you are wandering around hoping for a slam dunk. It won't happen with me.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  LOL! The subject of spirituality could be taken seriously if you had the ability to think.
  
  If it's the way I see it, why is the way I see it exactly the same as you describing it? Gobbledegook.
  
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Namaste
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  jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Merlin
  I don't give a damn about whether anybody believe in god or not.
  My question is What is "believe"?
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No, your OP clearly states "Do you believe in god"
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  jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You forgot to read the rest! And, I think, only those who say "I believe" will be able to say what they mean by that.
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  Merlin Fraserposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  If you actually mean 'Belief' then my comment 'Asked and Answered Stands.
  
  The point being made is that If you were really interested all you need to do is search through the Forum subjects and review the thousands of answers aleady printed there without asking the same unoriginal questions again !
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  jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  "To believe in".
  Existence is a fact. Its irrational to say you believe god exists. You can believe god said this or did that.
  Simply put why believers believe in others authority, while some people on their own?
  What make people trust unknown people's judgement, while ignoring their own?
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  vineyardfauxcomposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  (I am A Believer,) Iam a deciple of Jesus Christ,I am a believer,I am a part of the fellowship of the unashamed.The die has been cast,Ihave stepped over the line.The decision has been made,Iam bold with belief.Iwont look back,let up,slow down,back away,or be still,I'm not just a dreamer of dreams,but a doer of deeds.Iknow love by patience,lift by prayer,and labor with power.Mypace is set,my goal is heaven,my guide reliable,my mission is clear.I cannot be bought,compromised,detoured,or delayed.I will die and live for the Savior of my soul.I will not flinch in the face of sacrifice.Hesitate in the presence of adversity.Negotiate atthe tableof the enemy.Ponder at the pool of popularity.Or meander in the maze of mediocrity.I'm going to believe what I live and live what I believe.I won't give up,let up,or shut up,until I'mpreachedup,prayed up and paid up,stored up and stayed up.For I believein Christ and I will become what I believe.and when he comes to get His own,He will have no problem recognizing me formy colors will be clear. I am a deciple of Jesus Christ,Iam a believer the Warriors Creed.
  
  By: Tony Brown
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earnestshubposted 12 years ago
Well Paara, your book is a copy of the copy.

I have to agree with you about the bible though, it is a pile of recycled trash from earlier trash.
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lone77starposted 12 years ago
Jomine, a beautifully thought-provoking question (not just the title of this forum).

My mother's father was a Southern Baptist minister. I don't think I ever belonged to that church, even though I went dozens of times.

My father was a student of Eastern mysticism and religion, plus a student of the Bible. He was searching for a higher truth, rather than warmed-over dogma. Whenever he'd read out loud to my mother the stories of reincarnation or miracles, my brothers and I would sneak into the living room to listen, pretending to play with our toys.

My father went on to study Scientology. My mother joined him. And later, my brothers and I joined, also. I got a lot out of it. In fact, I found proof of my own spirituality. Not only remembering dozens of prior lives, and benefiting from the spiritual release, but once also found myself outside my Homo sapiens body with the ability to see clearly all of my surroundings. Having never been 15 feet in the air just outside the second story window, it is less likely that this was an hallucination or imagination. The fact that I could not feel my body in any way also seems to support the OBE (out-of-body experience). But unlike the OBE's and NDE's of others, this incident involved no drugs, trauma or surgery.

A few years later, I found that I could cause things to happen merely by thinking them. I merely found the mechanics of creation, but anyone can do it. It requires utter humility, responsibility, and perfect confidence. This is not an easy state of mind to attain, but with practice, it became easier on some vectors of intent. I'm still trapped by what I'm "comfortable" doing or having. Some things still "feel" impossible, so they remain that way. Handling those feelings is the next quest on my agenda.

Major Miracle

But in 1977, I hit a mother lode of a miracle. It started in utter frustration of bumper-to-bumper, rush hour traffic on Wilshire Boulevard, Los Angeles. Six times another driver cut me off. Five of those times there was insufficient room for their vehicles. All six could've resulted in collision had it not been for my quick reaction time on the brakes.

After the sixth such near collision, I realized that I was 100% responsible for all of those near collisions. I'm still trying to understand that idea even 34 years later, but the feeling of responsibility felt perfect. Suddenly, I did not feel vulnerable or a victim. And it took me 33 years to realize that I had thoroughly forgiven those drivers. The sense of peace was overwhelming but entirely comfortable.

The next moment, I remembered my "mechanics of creation" and pictured wide open spaces and smooth sailing all the way to my destination. I applied those mechanics and watched as the center lane ahead of me cleared within 5 seconds -- all 2 miles (over 10,000 feet) of it. And the lane stayed clear ahead of me for the four minutes it took for me to traverse that distance.

From the moment of taking 100% responsibility for my frustration and the events in my environment which contributed to it, and for the next several minutes, I felt like I had never felt in my entire life.

Looking back at the incident, I realized last week that there was physically not enough room for those cars in the outer two lanes. Average distance between vehicles was something like 3-5 feet.

Let's Try Logic

Given that the above is a fairly accurate representation of the events of that day, this would easily qualify as a miracle. Human nature in bumper-to-bumper traffic would not have allowed such rapid clearance or the persistence of such a large empty space.

My experiences have led to one strong possibility -- that I am not inherently a physical body. A purely physical body could not have caused the 1977 Miracle on Wilshire Boulevard. By the same token, a purely physical body cannot bend, break or otherwise circumvent the laws of physical reality for such things as parting the sea (Moses) or walking on water (Peter and Jesus).

As a spiritual being with the ability to create, that makes each one of us inherently baby gods. Ouch! Did someone say "blasphemy?" Genesis 1:26 says this -- that man was created in God's image. What would any being have as children? Humans have baby humans, birds have baby birds, and God has baby gods. And even Jesus told his enemies who were about to stone him for similar blasphemy, "ye are gods."

Even if I had "talked" to God, Jomine, I don't think a psychiatrist would have any relevance. You're thinking entirely too small with that remark. Personally, I don't think I'm worthy to talk to God, yet. I still have far too much ego.

(Just ask Earnest )
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earnestshubposted 12 years ago
Ron L hubbard was a third rate science fiction writer who used fifth rate pop psychology and tin cans hooked up to a millivolt meter to explain your life to you.
I can duplicate the same bulldust meter they sold for a small fortune on a $10 multimeter.

He was a fraud, and most countries including mine is trying to get Scientology banned. I did their communication course.

Their admin is so pis* poor that they promoted me in my absence to high office without me having done more than a free course!

I worked in their mail room in Sydney Australia and got an inside look at one of the dirtiest money grubbing organisations I have had the displeasure of seeing.

Everyone worked 14 hour days in the organisation conning people out of money. and that labour is provided free.
They took many thousands of dollars a day off poor unsuspecting fools.
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earnestshubposted 12 years ago
Goodnight all, big day tomorrow.

If I die in my sleep I will blame someone!
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kmackey32posted 12 years ago
I believe in, "Dont Ask, Dont Tell".....
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Jo_Goldsmith11posted 12 years ago
I *Believe* that this is crazy to talk about *believe in God*. When the day arrives and all will be judged..I hope I am standing next to you!
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I agree, that is crazy talk.
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Jo_Goldsmith11posted 12 years ago
so then I have the opportunity to ask you ..do you *Believe* now??!!
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vineyardfauxcomposted 12 years ago
thats where you are wrong God speaks to those who are His ,I dont have to see Him I see Him in His creation ,and he dwells in me by His son Jesus Christ its not physical its all about the inner spirit that becomes His at becoming born again ,to me most if what I read was babble its simple alot of those who call themselves christians ,dont read there Bible and if they do read its head knowledge only and not heart expierence,its always been about Jesus dwelling inside of His children by His Holy Spirit but thats a topic that saints today are affraid of and seldomly understand head wisdom is good but will not save you its all about the heart ,I know my life I know my encounters I know my walk and how I met Him,just as my opinion doesn't matter to you nor does spewing babble mean anything to me the Apostle Paul wrote though I dwelled with those claiming to know Him I found that they added nothing to me spiritually ,If what I said offended you I didnt mean to thats the problem with todays church its about fuzzy feeling and hanging out with people of like mind but they are lost and have no clue on what being a true child of God means ,But as for my walk I know well whom I believe in and He is the Christ the first born of many true bretheren filled with His Holy Spirit I will end with this if you want to know Him Repent and humble yourself before Him and then wait if its done with the right motive He will show up for He is never late have a great weekend EmileR.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  For some strange reason, I felt obligated to read that all in one breath.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Umm, you have a great weekend too?
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earnestshubposted 12 years ago
I found it to be a controlling statement typical of fundamentalists.

"This is the only thing you can do to be right" but I didn't say it jesus/god/fred said so so it must be true.

I see it as a pathetic megalomanic grasp for power by proxy from those who have none themselves.
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vineyardfauxcomposted 12 years ago
alrighty then I take it that no one has ever seen a demon then face to face ,oh let me clarify the term demon a fallen angel a spirit being shadow being,boogie man what ever yall want to call it ,they are real very real,they are the unseen force that tears families apart marriages apart, for there job is but three things steal,kill,and destroy,at this point I really dont care what the topic is what I gained from all the reading is yall picked the wrong topic to chew the cud on oh look it up its in yalls dictionary,I have seen them and heard them I live and talk by the experience of my walk with God for the last 30 years of my life His Holy Spirit is one of the greatest gifts ever given to man after Jesus Christ be very careful of your next thought for by the words of Jesus Christ said you can curse me and you can blaspheme my Father but if you blaspheme the Holy Spirit this is a sin that will not be forgiven,(heres you dictionnary for you to speak of God or sacred entity in an irreverent,impious manner ) for this you will be cast into the lake of fire without judgement .I will unfollow this page for as for me yall add nothing to me ,my last opinion yall have to much book knowledge and not enough HEART knowledge ,for the Lord has said if any lack wisdom let him ask of God who giveth liberally and upbradeth not ,oh this is me you just cant fix stupid ,peace out no offence.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  If the are an unseen force, how do you see one face to face, yall?
  
  Without YOUR judgment? That's mighty neighborly of yall.
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earnestshubposted 12 years ago
I've been set on fire before by experts in here as have all those who don't buy the tale, or swallow the kool-aide so I guess you should be made to stand in line to have all those who don't buy your myth burnt, killed sent to hell or purgatory.
It may take a while.
How very loving and religious of you to offer your advice. And free too!
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  vineyardfauxcomposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  lol your funny purgatory doesn't exist thats the myth,the greatest deception in the world is that the devil doesn't exist ,but to each his on ,for the truth will soon be revealed.
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'll say the truth has been revealed!
  
  More of it every day now with the aid of super computers to do the math, the god myth will be completely discredited by it's own so called evidence within a few years.
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vineyardfauxcomposted 12 years ago
there was no judgement just observation Gods the judge but as His son I judge mans fruit Godly or ungodly ,you pose a good question I was at a deliverance ministry in New Orleans wild weekend for Gods children 6 years ago there was a man in front of me the was about to be prayed for by the Preacher of the church warfare team as the preacher started to speak he started to pray in the spirit and as he prayed I was watching the man infront of me he started to shake and tremble I was two feet away from him the preacher was about 1 to 2 feet infront of him the man head started moving side to side and then a face appeared on the back of this mans head and groweled at me it had spikes on its head and pointed teath I was at that time praying out loud in the Holy Spirit as well it spoke with a hissing voice stop praying for this man hes my human I then laughed the preacher and I stepped back the preacher cast out the demon it screamed and the man fell to his knees calling on the name of Jesus the man had never spoken until that day .if you want to know the rest let me know theres more but I feel I should stop .I will end with this if my post have seemed like judgement I hope you can find it in your heart to forgive me for it wasn't my intent I'm 48 years old and I have seen Gods hand touch many people I have seen legs grow documented cases backed up from Hospitals ,also blind see ,deaf hear to question this or question that to me is a waste of precious time why waste breath talking about God when you can openly and honestly know Him to me its all foolishness or gobblygook as you call it .to you spiritual stuff is fake to me its very real for I know what I have seen .
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'm sorry. I have to ask. Were there drugs involved? Your post is a tad over the top.
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Ya think? Sounds about right for a Texas fundamentalist to me.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I have to say, that could explain quite a few of the posts on this forum.
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Not intending to boast, but I think our south Georgia fundamentalists are just as intelligent as those out west, Emile.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That's a pretty bold statement, but I'll trust your judgment. I can't say that I've had the pleasure of seeing a fundamentalist in person. Not sure I'd want to. I'd have a hard time keeping a straight face.
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Doc Snowposted 12 years ago
You know, I don't quite understand why God would care whether or not I believe in Him/Her.

He/She presumably knows what Universe it is that He/She created. It's vastly greater in every way than I am; I'd think that the only reasonable Divine response to any doubts I might feel would be pitying amusement. Rather as if my new kitten doubted I exist, only many orders of magnitude more so.

On the other hand, it's pretty clear that some humans care what others believe because influencing those others serves important emotional (or, sometimes, material) needs felt by the former. In other words, it makes some feel happy/important/validated to think that they have saved my immortal soul.

Well, if it makes you feel better, by all means pray for poor lost me. It can't hurt.

But as I say, I really don't think that any God there may be can possibly care what I think of them. Crudely put, there's no way a being so great could be that insecure.
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I agree, Doc. Playing games using misery, torment, and pain doesn't strike me as godly in the least, especially if the outcome has already been known to the deity forever.
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earnestshubposted 12 years ago
"Crudely put, there's no way a being so great could be that insecure"

I would have thought that to be obvious, but it is amazing what indoctrinated individuals make of this glaringly obvious fact.
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ahorsebackposted 12 years ago
And away we go again folks another atheist who has to dis - all believers in order to justify his emptiness of spirituality. as if we really care. And why?
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Why do we care? Probably because everyone's opinion is of value? I enjoyed reading both of your posts.
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  We who? Are you speaking for others or just yourself? Did someone elect you as spokesman for them here, or did you merely assume the role voluntarily? I would bet on the latter.
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DON BALDERASposted 12 years ago
Life is so precious and whoever is the origin and author of life would receive the highest appreciation from his creatures.
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ahorsebackposted 12 years ago
I think that the fact that atheists that have to constantly bolster thier non- beliefs by tearing down believers, actually shows how in need of spiruality they are. Don't be ashamed of yourselves , go ahead cry out for help. Denial only increases your hypocracy!
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I think that religionists state myths as facts in the endless threads they start to flog their disgusting beliefs to innocent people who may even pass this hate on to their children, so non believers are morally opposed to the religiously impaired foisting this rubbish ad infinitum.
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  Sherlock221bposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  There was a TV programme on tonight, which followed American children who had been trained by their parents to be evangelical preachers. It really was quite horrible to see innocent children being legally brainwashed into having hatred for their fellow man in the name of their Lord and Saviour. They were from the Bible Belt, and travelled to different parts of the country. One child with his father was preaching against homosexuals in New York, and the reaction from the crowd became angry, and the child looked upset and confused. For a so-called loving father to put his child through this is hard to understand.
  
  The enforced indoctrination of a child, whether on religious or politcal grounds, is I believe a form of child abuse.
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  Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It would seem that the vocal minority is doing the devils work, giving ALL believers a bad reputation; the same way afew muslams give it to all who believe in Islam.
  
  I have one family member who is lesbian. The most loving, unobtrusive person I have ever meet. Is she going to hell? If there is a hell. Hell no!
  
  If anything going to send a person to hell. It would be for hating and hypocracy.
  
  SOME Christians may say "We are all sinners",
  They say that they have been forgiven for those that they have repented of.
  What about the sins that they are unaware of, which they continuslly committ.
  Scripture says that if you believe something is a sin and you do it anyway, you are sinning.
  
  If you are not aware that it is a sin, then it is somewhat blameless.
  
  I therefore I think that it is a sin to point out to someone that what they do is a sin, because to do so is putting them in sin.
  
  Talk about oximorons
  
  Sorry I may have strayed from what I was origionally going to say. But OH well?
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earnestshubposted 12 years ago
I agree Sherlock, it is child abuse. I missed the show, but have seen others as you have too no doubt.
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SilentReedposted 12 years ago
You will have to define "God" first.Different strokes for different folks.But even Mammon as personified by the US currency (is it still around? have the words "In God we trust" printed on it.And your use of it at least a tacit agreement ?
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earnestshubposted 12 years ago
I think you stayed with the subject well. Hate is projection, not wanting to own it themselves humans project their own weaknesses on to others.
The OT is a crude roadmap of the shadow aspect of self as I see it in it's original form.

Of course there is a mass of real historic evidence that is growing which confirms it got warped by those in power to make it personal so it could be used to control.
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  Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I have said many times that I think the church that Rome built is the beast that John saw riseing up out o the sea.
  It fulfills every description.
  And all denominations that came from that tree are daughters of the whore.
  
  Gabriel told Daniel (in 538BC) that in 62 weeks they are going to kill the messiah and it shall be seven more weeks unto the Messiah (second coming) Yet that hebrew Nation was given another week to quit sinning.
  
  Just look at this like it was a math problem in Junior High school.
  
  And almost 40 years ater the 70 weeks were fulfilled, (138 AD) the end of the world came for THAT Hebrew nation that ALL of these prophesy (for hundreds of years) were given to.
  
  It really is that simple. It they are going to believe the bible ... then believe this simple math equation that ... IS IN THE BIBLE !
  
  God never wanted a man to be leader of an organized religion that says that they represent HIM.
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earnestshubposted 12 years ago
There is a great series on history channel showing in Australia at the moment that may agree with your view, I just can't recall what it's name is.
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  Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I will say that my views are my own, because I spent about ten years analitically disecting the prophesy in scripture.
  
  I know that you do not like the term UN-interpreting that which we have been taught that scripture is saying.
  
  It can be done! I just ain't easy.
  Before we even begin reading any verse in scripture, we already know what we are going to understand it to say.
  
  We have been programed that way.
  
  Gotta undo it! Like having a preconceived concept as to what a legal and binding contract says. Ya think you are going to tripple your money when in fact ... Ya lost your house.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry to hear that, I guess that's lost time you'll never get back.
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MissLuLuMarieposted 12 years ago
I always ask people if they believe in ghosts and if they say no, I ask them why. They usually say because they have never seen one so how do they know they exist? And then I ask if they believe in God, and of course most of the time they do. And then I ask why, and they say because they just do. And then they give you that puzzled look, because they realize that doesn't make sense. I think people believe in God because they need something there, they need some comfort knowing there is something bigger then them controlling or guiding them. Now I have no problems with people believing in God or whatever it is they want to believe in, I just think you need a better reason to believe other than just because.
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  OutWestposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  There is often a stronger reason than "because" but to a non-believer they would just ridicule. No one wants to listen or be open minded.
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earnestshubposted 12 years ago
well that is true enough, which is why I studied as much as I could in the old languages as well.
I was able to read it my way too, as I was interested in knowing, not proving. Big difference.
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ahorsebackposted 12 years ago
Again , as no one has tried to answer my question, I will rephrase, Why do Atheists have to try to break the Ba##s of christions to prove they are atheists? Seems like it might be simple to answer! Its like you have to go around knocking over someone elses stick pile?
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  
  Talk about irrational.
  
  Thank you ahorseback. I needed a good laugh today.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  While I often see Cagsil confirming your question is valid, the vast majority of atheists have no need to do such things.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Too bad I cannot confirm her posts about Atheists.
  
  I have NO religion, but nice try.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Never said you had a religion, did I.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  If you're implying that I confirm statements made by someone talking about Atheist, then you would be saying that I have a religion, considering Atheism is a religion in many different countries of the world. Do try to word your statements more carefully.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, I think you made that claim before and it was shown to you that whenever those statistics are generated, there is a disclaimer stating that although atheism is listed amongst the statistics (as they must be in order to make the demographics valid) it is not a religion.
  
  My statement to ahorseback was to respond that you have no interest in discussing things but instead toss out sound bites with the sole intention to, and I quote, "break the Ba##s of christions".
  
  That was her point, and you consistently confirm it. Others here will make the attempt to explain themselves, you won't, or can't.
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ahorsebackposted 12 years ago
Cagsil , Oh my you too!. Theres a surprise.
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OutWestposted 12 years ago
But God, The Creator is much different than the knowingly made up tooth fairy. To which we know all about it. A purpose for life and how we got here is not the same thing at all. And I might add a very poor comparison.
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  jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What is the difference except that one is made to entertain children and the other to control adults?
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  OutWestposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  "To control adults" is maybe your opinion at best. The God "concept" is still quite different to the tooth fairy which we as adults have knowingly made up. We are addressing a fundimental point to our existance.
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  Evolution Guyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  LOL
  
  Fundimental? To us existance innit like wot god sed. LOLOL
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  OutWestposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Write english unless you do not want to be understood. Thanks
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  jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  To the point. "Concept and made up", makes a big difference, whether its for good or not!
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vineyardfauxcomposted 12 years ago
jomine here is how you solve your own question fast for forty days and for forty nights get down on your knees and send God a knee mail ,I can garantee ,you will see and hear the enemy of God and see them and when you cryout to God to save you from what you are seeing you will truly have answered your own question stop being lazy input is good but when you attack Gods children He steps in read 1and 2nd Thess,I say challenge God to reveal Himself to you but if what you are doing has no truth He will not show up .the God I serve doesn't put on dog and pony shows but satin and his demons will challenge him also, but know this God will not be mocked .as for your question who said God exist God did for He was and is and always shall be ,there is none before Him or after Him,those are His words not mine ,you are treading on thin ice.
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  jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Delusions and hallucinations need treatment.
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  ahorsebackposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  When do you start??????
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angemac23posted 12 years ago
I am not sure if I believe in god nor not.....I think there is something there but it is not the way I learned in church or in religion classes as a child....
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ahorsebackposted 12 years ago
Vineyard is right , Atheists put believers on a dog and pony show! and For what , to prove you can say anything and not be punished? What? Was daddy a mean preacher or something , did Grammy make you say grace , grow up! Find a cause , fix your government or something . Remember "the meek shall inheit your earth" , I only hope when they do there will be no more atheists with a cause.
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Sherlock221bposted 12 years ago
I am an atheist because of the lack of any evidence that a god exists or that the universe was designed. However, I am an atheist who would love to believe in God, rather than one who does not want a god to exist. I just need evidence.

However, one of the biggest obstacles for my believing in god is because of the anger and hatred often shown by religious believers against those who do not share their views. It seems many Christians want to push people away from Christ.
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ahorsebackposted 12 years ago
Sherlock , Perhaps you could do as I , Just believe in the spirituality of creation , Let go the childlike knowing that given the beauty of this world alone . A sunset , a newborn child , The natural wonders of this earth! That there is no way it could come from a bang. Listen , I believe that mans interpretation of the origins of religion are as twisted as anything human! I dont believe that man was meant to worship over the TV, or tythe 15 % of his income , I am not sure that I believe in a pope , a saint or a baptism , but I believe in a higher being! Pick your own style of worship or meditation. The Jerry Fallwel's of this world are idiots, as all televangelists ! But for me ..There is something out there! Again , I dont have a problem either way , believe or don't ! But there is a level of immaturity to cut down someone who does believe! And to me ; that is what the ateists of these forums always do . Dis- a believer to justify their own atheism? Right !
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  jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  As long as there are believers, be ready for another 9/11.
  All beliefs center on irrationality, only the grade is different.
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theirishobserver.posted 12 years ago
Monday to Friday only the weekends are mine
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ahorsebackposted 12 years ago
Perhaps the ultimate irony , however no surprise from humanity! "I will believe if you show me proof!" Sometmes I think that humanity was just given a little too much I.Q. Atheist remind me of todays scientists predicting global warming on a sunny day. Or a politician predicting doom and gloom in an economy because they spend too freakin much! Admit it: you are empty hollow ,shallow,vessels of humanity. Get a life , get a god! And Jomine .....As long as there are believers - your right to voice your opinion on a religion or atheism is being protected { of course by someone else }!
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  jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You forgot the multitude murdered(still continuing) by believers for airing their views.
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ahorsebackposted 12 years ago
And ahh ,atheists dont kill! Right. Any resson or no reason .....
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  jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I've never heard an atheist killing to spread atheism, just like a believer dying to protect the right of an atheist.
  By the way I'm not an atheist.
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itsameanoldsceneposted 12 years ago
I personally am without religion & therefore I can think rationally, take different faith's views & opinions on board, listen, try understand & if need be criticize - I find it liberating without the shackles!
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ahorsebackposted 12 years ago
Jomine ,atheists , christians , how do YOU determine who the warriors or killers are . Have you been there on the front lines? Are you the killer and if you aren't , is it only Chrristians who kill . I love elitism .....I would be one except for one thing .....there is an odor about idealists and that odor pushes me away! Please do explain how atheism excludes itself ,somehow, from reality!
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  jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Atheists may kill, but no atheist kill for "atheism", as it does not offer salvation, after life, purpose of life or 72 virgins and its not an ideology. While religions kill for religions sake. Atheism is just a step towards rationalism.
  
  It was never religions who tried to protect others rights.In fact, even Martin Luther, who advocated Christian reforms asked to kill atheists. As long as there are religions my right for my opinion and sometimes even my right to live is under threat(If you got any doubt, try going to middle east or Pakistan and express some doubts about Mohammed's teachings).
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vineyardfauxcomposted 12 years ago
rotf LMAF.
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Paul Wingertposted 12 years ago
Do I believe in God. No. No need to. I know better and fully capible to think for myself.
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trackfodderposted 12 years ago
Let me share a few reasons I know God is real. I was a skeptic and felt maybe God was our father but the ocean was our mother and we evolved from a single cell electrochemical happening. That was before I suddenly realized I was spared all kinds of bad situations and death beyond the probability of chance or numbers. I WAS BEING PROTECTED. When I was dating, I had a girl down in the seat that was wanting action and I decided to head out of the drive -in movie to a back road. I looked at the gas gauge on Dad's car and panicked. It was on empty. I took her straight home and next day messed up and ;lost her. Another was a incredible sexy girl working in a drive in and she was afraid to date anyone because a returned Marine said he would pulverize anybody else that tried to date her. She wouldn't date him. He got electrocuted installing an A/C so I told her he was dead and we could go out. She had a set of breasts that set me on fire, but all she talked about all night was her father's career in a minor league ball team. I figured she thought I was a loser, but when I took her home she French kissed me such that I am still recovering but she had to go in and babysit her sis. I vowed I would get her the next night. The next night I met my wife-to-be in a sandwich shop, and I was hooked. I proposed the 3rd night after I got rid of the other 2 switchboard operators and 6 mos. later we were married, 54 years ago. I rode my motorcycle to work in 1958 on patch ice and was taking the cheap construction workers hat I used racing hydroplanes. It had a strap and having nowhere to carry it on the bike, strapped it on. I worked in an R&D pilot plant and my drillers helmet kept getting stuck between pipes, hence the narrow one. I was crossing a slab 30 x 40 ft covered with glare ice and both feet shot from under me and I hit all over on my back at once. My head rang and when I looked where I fell there was a 2" all-thread pipe nipple sticking up and it made a 2/3 circular scar on the fiberglass on the back of my skull. What are the odds of having the hat on at that time in that spot? More recently I was driving 50 mi. to work in Tulsa and was cruising in my Ford Probe at 75 on cruise, Dawn, light rain,and a black 3/4 T. Dodge crew cab with a 16 ft trailer 15 ft. in front of me with 2 ft in my way. I went about 450 ft on 3 wheels, managed to steer into the median grass, and walked back to the intersection with a sore knee from the steering wheel and a sore foot from being repelled by the floorboard as it came 4' past the clutch peddle. I was 3 hrs late for work, got a great settlement from his insurance, and found a better one of the same year for less than the settlement , bought my wreck for $15 for a spare as the engine was fresh. had a new A/C compressor, and the radiator was good. The floor,fender,door and roof were wrinkled/destroyed. I grew up making gunpowder, bombs, motorbikes, and putt-putt cars with lawnmower engines and was unscathed. I laughingly believe God was saving me to take care of my wife. Now when Obama and the U.N. divide Israel, all Hell is going to tear loose. God said if any country should divide Jerusalem, I will destroy that country. All the last-day signs are in place and in September there are supposed to be some planets and an ice-ball comet in alignment and this is nearing peak sunspot activity anyhow. God will fight on the side of Israel against the rest of the world (Armageddon) and what better way than to suck a goober (Solar flare) off the Sun and fry all the power grids , electronics, etc. making the rockets, planes , and vehicles useless. If He really wants B.O's hide the super volcano in Yellowstone could blow at any moment.. It has bulged 100 ft recently and the animals are leaving like the elephants in Indonesia going to higher ground and one taking a small boy with him before the tsunami. The Israelis on their own turf probably have some neat stuff from WW2 like howitzers, jeeps with regular ignition, etc, and they have 3 German subs offshore Iran loaded with cruise missiles that may survive the EMT and be able to take out targets in Iran, but without the satellites they may have a problem with that. I have had many more close calls, but if you have read this far I would be surprised.
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princess gposted 12 years ago
No, I don't believe in God.
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wademvp91posted 12 years ago
I do believe in God. For me it's hard not too. Yes there is no "evidence" but to me, all of the "evidence" that I need is all around me. There is no way that a giant big bang created the earth as we know it. The world is too perfect for it to be a random coincidence. I believe in God because I know that without Him, there would not be an Earth.
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Yasdillposted 12 years ago
I just have one question, "Why do people believe in what the news say or what magazines write and say about other people, but yet the BIBLE that has been there for soooo many years, people do not want to believe?" Why is this??? Because people are lazy and rather live in a world where they don't have to follow God's commandments, people rather sin than to live a better life. Its just easier right? Im just saying. Remember were here to post our ideas and share them, not to fight or make a war because of something that someone believes or says. Its freedom of speech and right. Thanks
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I think you have this wrong way around.
  
  I think the believers are the lazy ones. I don't believe because I made a sincere deep study of religion and have a good knowledge of it as many non believers have. Most "believers" have never even read the OT.
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healthobserverposted 12 years ago
Of course yes, I believe God exists He created this life. He is where we complain, ask for directions when we trouble ... and He is where we return.
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