Would a Christian want to stop it?
Prophesy says that after a certain period of time, the world will become so evil that it destroys itsel. Or something like that!
SOooo, that being said; should a christian try to prevent the prophesy from being fulfilled by killing those that disagrees?
This seems to be an oximoron to Christianity.
Ya gotta be careful of the things that we hate and the way in which we do it, lest we become worse tan the thing that we hate.I believe there's a load of fundie loonies in the US who want to keep funding Israel and a third temple in the hope it will usher in their interpretation of the Book of Revelation. Tragic.
One thing that many people who believe that the temple will be rebuilt in Jerusalem do not consider.
When those verses that speak of the Temple being rebuilt, were written after Nebuchadnezzar destroyed it ... and fifty years later Cyrus commanded that all Hebrews who wanted to go home and rebuilt the city and temple be allowed to do so. And materials were supplied.
Seventy years after Solomon’s temple was destroyed it was rebuilt.
If Armageddon is to come, should a Christian attempt to stop it if they thought they could?
More than 500 years after the prophesy that the temple will be built, King Herod remodeled it and enlarged it,
Jesus said that this temple will be destroyed BUT it is not written that it will be build yet a third time.
If a Christian thought that they could prevent a prophesy from being fulfilled; are they supposed to?Disappearinghead,
James Redfield's The Twelfth Insight is on this exact topic. How the Apocalypics will begin the war because they are so nuts they think all the "good" ones will be raptured up, while the evil ones will be killed in the wars. The Mayan calender ending at 2012 has been translated by the Hope indians, who have always been very spiritual, as meaning that the whole world must form groups of people who agree on topics and act on them, teach each other to be more spiritual and pay attention to eacfh other. It doesn't mean a war to end the Earth. And even if you believe the literal biblical truth( I don't) God said he would never destroy the Earth again.No. He said He would never destroy the earth again with water.
The Bible says the earth will melt with fervent heat. And I'm not talkin' about global warming. I'm talking about God who created the earth, finally deciding to burn it up.
Also, when you talk about scientists having proven things...
We can't even trust scientists and research teams to actually prove much at all anymore! They mostly theorize about everything, and draw their conclusions to slant toward their own biases and desires. When we can't even count on them to prove what medicine or what food is good for us, how can we trust them to tell us how old the earth is? Science, true science, deals with facts, (and sometimes on facts based on those facts) but not on conjecture.
I believe in God because it's the only thing that adds up, both by science and Faith. And the Bible is the mathematical book that teaches and reveals things about God.
Your question is a little lacking in specifics, here. Which "Christians" are trying to prevent the fulfillment of prophecy by "killing those that disagree?" The logical holes in your question are bigger than the Pentagon.
OK ... Somewhat of a hypothetical question so I guess you can pick your own specifics.
I'm a conservative Christian, so this is not so hypothetical for me. No, a Christian should not try to stop it even if they thought they could. Ultimately, this will be for the fulfillment of God's glory when the devil and everyone who follows him will be defeated. However, it's not like anyone could stand in God's way, so in that respect I guess it's hypothetical.
Why would any religious folk want to stop it? They believe the afterlife is theirs to be enjoyed. Therefore, they don't have to do anything to stop it. If anything doing nothing only speeds up the process in their mind.
To me, it sounds pretty petty and selfish.
There is no harm if evil is eradicated by peaceful dialogue and with brilliant and arguments.
That is more in the lines of what I was thinking when I made the OP.
To fight wars attempting to eradicate evil wouldn't prevent anything but make the earth HELL for everyone until the prophesy fulfill themselves "What ever" way they ere intended to be.No need to fight wars to eradicate evil; this can be done with peaceful dialogue and with good arguments.
You say that evil can be eradicated with peaceful dialogue and with good arguments, yet history does not support this. People who are truly evil (however any one person chooses to define that) are also convinced that they are truly right, so no good argument or peaceful dialogue would do the trick. Whether you mean Hitler and Stalin or George W Bush or Margaret Sanger, their sheer conviction that they are right is unflappable. Hitler needed war because war was what he pursued.
No, we try to get 'em saved by warning them and telling them about forgiveness.
And about what's gonna happen to that devil you mentioned that the priests were trying to chase down and kill. Christians know that this is a spiritual battle, not necessarily a literal war (though, sometimes that's been and probably will still be a part of it)There is no spiritual war except in the minds of the evangelical church. After all the spiritual warfare prayer warriors have done their ranting and raving, binding and loosening, territory claiming, casting out and calling down, don't you think there would be a measurable change in our societies? But the world goes on regardless oblivious to the howling from the prayer rooms. Either Satan is saying "yeah whatever girlfriend", or he doesn't actually exist.
Seeing as the Hebrew scriptures don't acknowledge the existence of demons operating under some arch fiend in perpetual rebellion to God, except by invention of the catholic scholar Origen in the 3rd century, why should we? Satan is simply the Hebrew for 'one that opposes' and when not referring to a human satan, the term was used of an angel sent by God and operating under His authority. 400 years of superstition in Israel was embraced by the church.Pretending Satan doesn't exist, doesn't make it so.
Brenda, are you completely brainwashed? Fanatical Christains are just as dangerous as radical Islamists. I' m sure both sides would love to see Armegeddon happen, since you literally believe the myths in the Bible and Koran. You think you are on the side of right and might, and will be raptured up while the religious war is raging. It's ridiculous. Neither the Bible or Koran is the literal truth. Even you know Jesus spoke in parables, and was sometimes impatient with his disciples when they couldn't get it. Jesus never wanted a relgion in his name. He wanted people to live his peaceful lifestyle, and not be hypocrites, to be the best people they could be. He told them they would do far bettter things than he did. He wanted people to live a more spiritual path, not believe gospels written so long ago. Science has proven the Earth existed billions of years ago, not only the 6 million the Bible claims. Scientific proof. Of course evil exists, if evil didn't exist, good couldn't exist. It's the rule of polarity. You can't have cold without hot, love without hate. It's been proven the four gospels were not even written by Luke, Matthew, John and Mark, and were written years after their deaths. Plus they have been translated into so many different versions and languages. Why do you need to cling to what amounts to a book of fairy tales?
Well, I guess I'm just one of those people Obama mocks, clinging to my guns and religion! LOL
To answer just one point of your rant,
actually, I'm not one who necessarily believes I'll be raptured up while the "religious war is raging". I believe that war is here and now, was brought here by Satan and the third fallen angels long ago, and that it's mostly spiritual. If it does turn into a literal war, I don't know if I'll be living then or not. The only "rapture" I believe in is the one at the end of time, when Christ will split the eastern sky and those who are alive will be caught up to meet Him in the air.
Another point, and this one I'm not sure about. 6 million years? I'm not sure the Bible says anything about 6 million years. Could you find that for me?Six million years was the figure I was taught when I was studying the Bible. I didn't feel comfortable about it, because they always played around with time. If they needed a day to be a year, or a year to be a million years, it's just whatever is convenient to prove a point. I think the spiritual war is here and now too, and am unsure if it will come to one on Earth, though hope it doesn't. I didn't rant, but this is a writer's forum, not a religious one, and it gets annoying to go hub hopping and see 6 out of 10 hubs about the Bible. None of it is original content. It seems whatever forum you go on, it's the same.
So, why isn't religion a valid writing venue?
Is there some unspoken rule that pen and paper is reserved only for secular views? Or is there a rule, spoken or unspoken, that this is a specifically secular site?
Hey, you can hop right past those religious hubs, right? I've hopped past a bunch of non-religious and/or bad ones myself.
But obviously religion is a subject of intense interest to both the religious and the non.It's a valid writing venue, but it seems to come up on any site, not only here. It is interesting, and yes, I can skip them and often do.
Sometimes when I read a post, there are many dierent things come to mind.
There usually seems to be a, Yea ... but thing going on.
Yes we should be the light of the world. A lighthouse so to speak.
BUT ... not the Coast Guard, sinking ships that do not navigate toward our lighthouse.
I think, that when the end comes, it will not be about religion.
It will be about the lack of oil for transportation and warmth first, and 2nd, the lack of food and drinkable water.
The winds of war are generated by greed.
And starving people can become the most greedy of all(wanting).
We are depleting our resources, … when we are finished, and there is none left; there will be war such as never been seen before.
And religion will not be the issue.
Well bible phophesy has come true already in many cases, we are living inthe time of phophesy of book in Revelations ,still the book of Daniel tells of a goverment not passed on to any other people and God will set up his own in heaven ,that goverment will rule intire earth! no more wars ,sickness and pain, and our love ones who have died will return to a clean earth mentaly and physicaly,Daniel 2:44
That isn't what I understand the written word of prophesy.
First of all; On the book of Daniel, how many times does Gabriel say that these prophesy is concerning the first four kingdoms of the earth!
The first three were specifically named as Babalon, Persia, and Greece.
Everyone knows that the Roman Empire was the fourth.
At the time Daniel received these messages from God, Rome was an unknown little comunity.
All of the prophesy as written in Daniel WERE fulilled when "THAT" Hebrew Nation (who these prophesy was given to) Came to their End of Days (138 AD)
If you read the book of Daniel, (and not change the written word) As religious interpretation has been doing for the past 1650 years.
At sometime after that Hebrew nation came to the End of Days; The Beast that rises up out of the sea is given 42 prophetic months to Blaspheme the Lord.
How long is 42 prophetic months?In the book of Daniel is a two fold meaning !it covers history then and the future! for instance !lets go back to that scripture Daniel 2:44 in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom his kingdom will not be passed to other people he will crush and put and end to all kingdoms meaning Goverment even today.today we have goverments still ruling, yet the God who ruled over Jews , has relpaced his kingship position with is son ,no other earthly king will represent God here! Zedekia was then the last during that fall of the Isreal.42 prophetic days you speak of is 3 I/2 years ( a day for year )=1,260 days Times 2 =2,520 years
so Oct 607 BCEtoDec 31 607 BCE=1/4 year
January 1,606 BCEtoDEC31 607 =606 years
January 1,1CE toDec 31 1913=1913 years
January 1 1914 to early Oct 1914=3/4 year
Total 2,520 years
to the enthronement of Christ! his goverment rules now
yes he took office and soon we will fully recieve the benifits!
satan knows he has a short time to keep fooling people till
Armageddon! how sad ! that people don't listen!I just checked the post ! never know what you have to explain to some one who does have bible insight!
those 42 days are realy months so you have to count them as such.
All of the beast described in the book of Daniel do indeed represent world powers. (the world such as it was known at that time).
Gabriel named three of these four beasts as being Babylon, Persis, and Grecia. Rome wasn't mentioned to Daniel cause Rome was an unknown little town at that time.
These first kingdoms never had dominion over the whole world as we know the world today.
King Cyrus said (Ezra 1) That the God of heaveh has given him all the kingdoms of the world. What is that all about.From the book of Ezra Gods messages or mouth piece here is Jeremiah, God roused the spirit in Cyrus to do his will ,to restore his place of worship
to benifit his people. Meaning if God is for you ,who can win against you,Cyrus was Gods choice in freeing his people and restoring true worship no matter how many kingdoms would stand ,he was in control because of the True God.
Could you be more vague? Let us know when you figure it out, or something like that.
Just like Jesus told his disciples not to use swords and harm no one ,if there was a need God would have provided many angels ,remember one angel was able to kill thousands, what can man do that God can do better no comparing.the real truth or faith the real channel God is accepting ,do not war with each other nor do they kill any thing the scripture is true they will war no more they will beat there swords into plow shears Isaiah 2:4 those that understand that live by that . and important factor in being a citizen of this new Goverment.
very interesting view, Jerami. yes there is bible prophesy about the end times and wars and evil, etc. but there is also a commission that Jesus left for His follows to go into all the world and preach the gospel. this was before He was ascended into heaven. there is still hope that, even though we are living in a time of evil, some people might still be saved and follow the teachings of Jesus: which is there is a day of judgment coming. i believe there is life after this life, otherwise we would all be living in vain. that's my take
Welcome to HP
I agree with your post for the most part. It is those things implied that I might debate.
The first time that I ever read Matthew 23 and 24, I immediately understood this message totally opposed to the way church teaches it.
Jesus pointed to the Pharisees telling them that the blood of all martyrs ever killed were going to come upon "THEM" ... and immediately after this, Jesus tells four of his disciples that those things that he said the Pharisees were going to do, was going to happen to THEM.
To kick this off ... This is said to be a "PRIVATE" conversation between Jesus and four of his disciples. Important word, Private.
All of the prophesy in the old testament was given to That Hebrew Nation that ceased to exist in 138 AD.
I can not believe that those prophesy that God told to his Chosen People" would not have been fulfilled before that Hebrew Nation came to their END of DAYS.
I just can not see it any other way. Jesus said that "This generation shall not pass till all these things be fulfilled".
I believe that it all came as a thief in the night and we misunderstood it the same way They didn't recognize the Messiah which they were watching for.
Mis-Interpretation.I am alitte confuse on the question but you are right all prophesy will be fulfilled ,but the key to understand Jesus words where two fold you see his words covered more then just his time but covered the future, and you do have to remember Jesus was resurrected, Matthew 28:19, His last instuctions as he lifted into the clouds .Go therefor and make Disciples,of people of all the nations-20-teaching them to observe all things he commanded,--and says I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things. Jesus is with us in power! he is accomplising this work ,getting people who want to benifit from his Goverment, the many religions have been hiding this fact from many as power under satans control.matthew24: 14 says good news of God kingdom will be preached to the inhabit earth then the end will come,Gods Goverment is what we all need .then the earth surely will be heaven!the lords prayer!
I wrote a long reply when something came to mind which scrambled my mind just a bit.
I'll just start with translation issues.
When a word was translated "earth" sometimes earth wasn't the best word to use of the other words that it could have just as easily been translated.
Many times the word translated earth could have as easily meant Israel.
Such as the wilderness meant, that which was outside the borders of Israel.
And yep I'm playing with words.
But if I have a preconception as to the general idea , this will inluence how I translate the document.
My brain isn't working so good tonight but OH Well.
- Emile Rposted 12 years ago
0As far as prophesy goes; I would think a devout Christian would leave things to roll on their own. Attempting to force the issue would be tantamount to attempting to force the hand of God. Doesn't sound like belief in an omnipotent Creator.
I do worry about the idiots running around claiming God is talking to them. They could certainly decide they had the divine mission to move things along.I agree. in part.
I know that I have heard voices. From where they come no one knows.
Maybe from our memory bank? I've been out in the woods and just walking along and distinctly heard my name being called.
Maybe telepathic, How many mothers have heard their child cry out to them (in their minds ear)... and later find out that at that moment, many miles away, their child had a motorcycle accident.
There is more to SOME of those voices we hear than just insanity. And still? Insanity does come in many colors.Yes. I went for a few years where I would hear my name whispered loudly; waking me straight up in fear. It was wierd. I knew it was some mind thing; but it scared the beejeebies out of me every time.
That is one of my primary fears of the devoutly religious. Following voices in their head without questioning the sanity of the thoughts.
SOooo, that being said; should a christian try to prevent the prophesy from being fulfilled by killing those that disagrees?
Then we would be no more than a murderer our selves. So, no.
Love ya The computer says ya'll are getting rain!The best way to discredit the word of God is when everyone is encouraged to Interpret it.
When teachers teach their own interpretation of the word of God, the truth of the message will, ...ALL WAYS ..., be lost!Just a hypothetical. Does it say anywhere that the rapture is physical? Does it say anywhere that it will be collective vs. personal? If being spiritual could it have occured countless times if based on personal rather than collective? I have paused wondering this many times. What if what we read in Isiah and in John's revelation is an account of transcendence between physical death and spiritual life becoming whole within a spiritual existence. The casting off so to speak. I am wandering in thought making no sense. But, if this were to be probable then those who try to hurry it up or prevent it may just be in fact doing so, since I for one will defend myself against those zealots.
As far as the "Rapture" is concerned. ???
The first mention of it is in Daniel 12: 1 & 2. This verse definitely is talking about Hebrew People; "Children of Daniels people!" Hebrews!
This was written around 538 BC. almost 600 hundred years before there was such a thing as a Christian.
John was written around 96 AD. And he also specified 12000 of each of the 12 tribes of Israel.
This is the truth concerning what is written in the book.
NOW!
If we change the meaning of what these words say? Lets say we Interpret these words to mean 100 different things, will there be 101 truths?
What would happen If we understood these words to mean exactly what they say?
Food for thought; John was written approx. 40 years before that Hebrew Nation came to the End of Days !!
John wrote that the Beast shall rise up out of the sea in his FUTURE , and it will be given 42 (Prophetic) months to blaspheme the Lord.
SOoo how long is a prophetic day, or month etc?Again the beast here represents world powers of Goverment ! is it true that Goverments have a beastly symbles to represent them! they are in opposition to God's Goverment now ruled by his son Jesus! so thats how they blaspheme. they do not support his Goverment thats mention in the lords prayer ,remember( thy kingdom come) you see many are not keeping up with spiritual things ,many religions do not have Gods favor that is why they are in spiritual darkness.many do not know the theme of the bible and yet many claim to know and read it.yet satan uses many religions to dance with him as long as he can until Armaggedon gets here. how we can protect our relationship with God would depend on how we take his word !meaning serious ,or not at all in these forums is a true example of disgust of the subject of God! .yet they give them self no hope ,and allow no other to have it ! because they dont believe, well that must be for a reason! and it is sad on there part.I must ask you is that really important to you about the years , because I see a greater picture here to consider, that is knowledge is good ,but what about what we do with it ,and what about our relationship with the one who gave it to us! I think its for a reason !You go to college and take up to be a doctor !for many years you take in knowledge of the human body and how its works, and then you go home talk to people and tell them your a doctor! because you have knowledge ,A doctor is a doctor when he puts his knowledge to work ,and applies his skill to the best of his knowledge. So its the same with true followers of God and Jesus ,the point faith without works are dead I dont know anything about you is that you post a good question,I just think sometime we can get side tract on the road to where we are trying to reach ! everlasting life!
Again the beast here represents world powers of Goverment really ??
A politically established organization with great power, Certainly
And John indicated that this "beast" will rise to power at some time in the future.
At some point in time after he writes this. Some time after 96 AD.
SOoo start right there ... in 96 AD.
Who has controll of the known world?
And who do they loose their dominion to ?
first some history about John ,John out lived other apostles,John served faithfully 70 years, toward the end of his life, during the reign of the Roman emperor Domitain, John was exiled to the Island of Patmos " for speaking about God and bearing witness to Jesus, there in about 96 C.E. John recieved the visions that he recorded in the book of Rev.1:1,2,9 after his release John went to Ephesus where he penned the Gospel that bears his name known as 1,2,and 3 John. he died in Ephesus in about 100 CE
Absolutely correct although I read someplace that the Catholic church has documents which record John as having lived up until 109AD with NO record as to when or how he died. Who knows which is corect?
What comes to my mind is that these facts you mentioned completely fulfills all the conditions set forth in Revelation 10:11
"And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and tongues, and kings".Yes you are correct the point being if you notice the bible give history ,that can be found in Our history books on the rise and fall of Goverments! because ,of the fact this has proven the failure of man rulling man! When God Had somthing far greater then man could think of at one time it was a secret ! now he has revealed that ,when his son arrived as the massiah and now he is the rightfull one to give kingship to,Eze 21:25-27 remember on the stake they posted King of the Jews ,Know somthing that is what he was and is more today in the spiritual Realm! He is Our king! his presence can only be seen by those who keep spiritual light of truth, Its nice talking to you about this subject! please forgive if I dont give a answer right away I just want to accurat to your question ,we have so many views already, we need more truth and proof.
I should post to everyone concerning my resent sporatic attendance. Sorry
"God roused the spirit in Cyrus to do his will ,to restore his place of worship" ... being the most important words in your post.
Which lies perfectly with Daniel 9:23 and 25 26
Ezra 1 .... Cyrus says that he was Charged (told to do so or maybe even commanded to do so?)
Daniel 9 23 ... The commandment has come forth a few days ago.
Daniel 9 25 ... It shall be 69 weeks from the time that the comandment goes (Went) forth until the Messiah the prince V 26 and it shall be 62 weeks from the time that the commandment went forth and then the messiah shall be killed.
In 538 BC the countdown or the Messiah to be killed began.
Depending upon who we believe? this 62 weeks ended in either 26, 30, or 33 AD.
This would mean that 62 prophetic weeks is equal to either 564, 568, 571 years.
Is this just another silly interpretation OR is this what it actually says?
I think that it actually says this, or did until interpretations began being printed in larger letters and bolder ink.
People think that these verses have no importance in making up their belief system .... But OH boy ... are they are wrong.
lets say 62 weeks = 568 years, A week in prophesy would be approx 9.16 of our years. by using this mathematical equation every time a specific period of time is mentioned in prophesy, Prophesy can logically be projected.
42 months = 1260 days = 180 weeks X 9.16 = 1649 years.
How many political powers have been around that long?
Lets just pick a year and count backwards from it and see what was going on in history, see who was coming into power.
Lets choose the year 2012 just or kicks. 2012 minus approx 1649 years brings us to 363 AD.
Check the history books and see what was happening AROUND that time.
Then we can proceed to the next step in our analytical process of looking at prophesy.
I should post to everyone concerning my resent sporatic attendance.
"God roused the spirit in Cyrus to do his will ,to restore his place of worship" ... being the most important words in your post.
Which lies perfectly with Daniel 9:23 and 25 26
Ezra 1 .... Cyrus says that he was Charged (told to do so or maybe even commanded to do so?)
Daniel 9 23 ... The commandment has come forth a few days ago.
Daniel 9 25 ... It shall be 69 weeks from the time that the comandment goes (Went) forth until the Messiah the prince V 26 and it shall be 62 weeks from the time that the commandment went forth and then the messiah shall be killed.
In 538 BC the countdown or the Messiah to be killed began.
Depending upon who we believe? this 62 weeks ended in either 26, 30, or 33 AD.
This would mean that 62 prophetic weeks is equal to either 564, 568, 571 years.
Is this just another silly interpretation OR is this what it actually says?
I think that it actulaly says this, or did until interpretations began being printed in larger letters and bolder ink.
People think that these verses have no importance in making up their belief system .... But OH boy ... they are wrong.
lets say 62 weeks = 568 years, A week in prophesy would be approx 9.16 of our years. by using this mathmatical equation every time a specific period of time is mentioned in prophesy, Prophesy can logicaly be projected.
42 months = 1260 days = 180 weeks X 9.16 = 1649 years.
How many political powers have been around that long?You are correct. Jesus was crowned King of The Jews.
And the 62 weeks as described in Daniel was finished.
Now; at that time there was 7 weeks trmaining unto the Messiah The Prince.
This would bring us to "approx." 94 AD.
There is now only one week left of the 70 weeks that "That Hebrew Nation was given to quit sinning and make restitution AND Anoint the Most Holy.
Which brings us to "approx" 103 AD. Thirty something years later; THAT Hebrew Nation no longer existed.
I think that this prophesy has been fulfilled!
But again ... just the way I see it.
have you ever did research on hebrew and greek scriptures ,you will find that catholic versions have a lot missing from thier version of the bible ,many things drop because they where to sacred to discuss ! is this Gods will, I think not the lords prayer said it all Our Father Who Art In Heaven Holy be thy Name thy Kingdom Come His will be Done ON Earth as is In Heaven. point that Gods name is very important, the first thing address in prayer and yet the Catholic bible took it out replaced it with Lord
bad action on there part to remove Gods name !now you have many that dont know thier heavenly father 's name ! how sad. It not Jesus because Jesus was being born Mary and who do you think protected him as a baby
His father. and he told us how to pray to father not hisself,he being on earth
at that time look up . he did not say pray to jesus nowhere in bible. proof no trinity.
So the world power at that time was Rome , Now here's the log of World powers the image that Daniel and John where speaking of first the Image
represents ( Egypt,Assyrin,Babylon,Medo Persia,Greece,Rome ,Anglo American World power(Britan and United states)they are the feet of the Image. these world powers had more strength why they where listed , history ,of how Alexander the Great took part in World Power take over.
if you notice no one ever represented the Jews the Jews again.after these
World Powers,So many good posts that until today I hadn't seen.
Just haven't had much time for computer time lately. Will be reading them again. A lot to think about.
Egypt,Assyrin,Babylon,Medo Persia,Greece,Rome
Rev. 17:10 ...And thare seven kings; five are fallen , and one is, and the other is not yet come, and when he cometh he must continue a short space.
In this instance I believe the word space was misinterpreted.
In keeping with other prophetic messages, this word should have been translated as "short Time"
When we investigate the numbers thingie, where prophesy is concerned, A Time = 52.something prophetic months. Each month had 30 days.
A Time, Times and an half would be a longer period of time than 42 months.
I say this because in Daniel 12. 1290 days are compaired as being a time, times and an half. ... 42 months is 1260 days.
I do not think that a day in prophesy = a year here in our time.
I think a week is approx 9.13 to 9.16 of our years. or A day is approx 1 1/3 of our years.
Just my opinion.The world power thats mention is that is to come and will stay short time already happen ( the league of Nations) becoming the United Nations, short times between both, Neither cannot accomplish true peace and security (2 Thessal-5:3 ) The Anglo American World Power Is the last power on the Image of Daniel.
Mark 13:32 "But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father."
OK, stating emphatically, I accept and acknowledge God. Yet, I do not have a belief in/of/for God.
The quote above is simply saying for 'self' why bother with it. There is an age old argument of the text - Holy Bible. That argument is the question of inerrancy vs. authoritative. One allows for exception, so to speak, while the other does not. Once 'discovering' the gnostic texts I stopped my walk within a Christian light to a walk in God's light, although not agreeing fully with gnosticism.
If it is inerrant, then once true always true. This said, using text to disprove another text or placing conditions on said text makes it complicated. So, one may venture toward authoritative, while leaning on interpretation.
For 'self' it is relative to the relationship I have with God - NO one else, no entity, no collectivism, no structure of any sort - ethereal or physical. Many say I am pantheistic. I reply 'So,' why is it your concern when you are an atheist. (I'm not referring to here, but to those I engage with at a local get together for discussions)
Others retort, "your crazy Mitch." Laughing aloud I get to say, "yeah, and I got papers to prove it, show me proof of your sanity." Knowing today, sanity and insanity boil down to legal terms, I see it as analogous to relationships with God while wondering just who the bleep is the judge.
Tiring of apologetics, I slid toward good old fashioned philosophy. A great teacher of Socratic thought is Paul (1 Thes 5:21 "But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good"). Again I elude to the argument above in par 3 & 4. On many occasions engaging in a discussion(s) verse is offered as proof, declaring inerrancy to the atheist. Being the 'crazy' guy at the table I love quoting that verse defending the atheist, knowing full well they require no defense. But, after all they are only doing what Paul suggests.
Although I venture into forums, more here recently, I do as many - shoot from the hip. But, taking Paul's words to heart as a philosopher trained in the land of philosophers to be a philosopher I use things like the Skeptics Dictionary, Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, and a handy handout from a reading class listing 34 different arguments of reason. Sometimes I dust off the cob webs using symbolic logic (that is fun when studying the scriptures) too.
I'm not hunting, I am seeking. I usually read a thread, sometimes copy/paste to study if it appears, knowing perception is reality (in many cases), intriguing. There are some very profound, fascinating, and interesting discussions here in these forums. I have many questions.
That said, I found this short thread on the matter of dates, time, and correctness enlightening. I learned much from it. Yet, I have to go back to the original quote saying. Does all that matter? I don't know! Chuckling, does this post I am debating on making matter?
In conclusion glancing at the clock I have to quote the white rabbit from Alice in Wonderland, "I'm late / I'm late / For a very important date. / No time to say "Hello." / Goodbye. / I'm late, I'm late, I'm late."I think I do understand your many words why does this matter to those that do not believe.why bother ,because there are those that are silent that would like to here views on this subject this is why I shared what i know,and to you maybe dates have no meaning and for you thats works
but some are curious about bible prophesy ,true many have lost touch where we are today in time! we can not tell some one the day or hour of Armaggedon ,so stated ,only God knows when he will release his will on that
but that does not mean he has not gave us warnings and prophesy to keep up with. its like a women thats pregnant , we know she will give birth one day and all the symptoms show she is ready for birth the day is not sure nor the real hour but birth will happen .so will be the presense of God,but can we turn our backs and say what do dates mean and the hour , yes a life is at stake here ! and so many lifes will be also ., it does matter,because
when something becomes true to life we can not dispute it. We are proof that life exist the first thing written in a book called the bible,no other book gives us the history of us and the things on it! if so where is it! and about now its much to late. some have died and gone with out knowing the truth! we are alive a gift from God and a future with it.(at work so a quicky) I agree with what you stated. There are those who have a thirst regarding prophesy. And, I like your analogy regarding preganancy. The reason I wrote so much above was to state my position of 'self' too. Then one may understand where I may be 'coming from' so to speak.
The analogy of the pregnancy is cool to me because of one simple thing. It is universal. There are many women who become pregnant and each has their 'time,' even with the medical wonders today of forced labor.
I am curious, as stated in my original post, regarding the rapture as being collective or personal/individual. I have not seen a proof one way or the other. The gnositic belive the rapture is synonomous with gnosis. They are 'Christians,' even though many dispute their apologetics.
The fact that John did write I, II & III after Revelations causes me to wonder more.hellow Mr TSmog its nice chatting with you! I see you are interested about the term Rapture.Well the meaning descibes people taken up to meet Jesus or lord in the clouds ,said to be before the great tribulation.Well first I have learned that in revelations there are two Groups that are under God's favor remember. Lets examine, John 10:16 he states he has two folds of sheep ,one fold will be , a smaller group ,the other a larger group, Revelation talks about a great crowd no man which no man could number ,who survive the great tribulation,the small group is 144,000, these
ones make up christ first disciples and the ones later who made up the Christain congregations then and most have already assended to thier goverment positions , these are the ones people use the term rapture.The great crowd is the hope for those who do not have position for goverment in the heaven! the lords prayer says let your will be done on earth as is in heaven! proof that the benifit of heaven will flow to earth!
Every one can not be a king every one can not be in goverment thats why the number of 144,000 is named ,Rev 20:6 and Revelation 7:9 talks about those who come out the great tribulaion, they are still here on earth.
only in your world Earnestshub, only in your world,!
also I read in an earlier post. "... but no one knows the day or hour not the angels but God only".
The same thing can be said of this years Super Bowl game.
No one knows who is going to be playing in it, let alone, who will win it!
But next year anyone that wants to know will know.That would be nice! We got nuttin to worry about then.
My electric bill is due tomorrow.No when its tomorrow ,your bill be due today
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