Why I left the church

1. 59

   mischeviousmeposted 12 years ago

   I walked out on Chritianity because I felt jaded. All I saw or heard were opinions and religious prejudice. Not everyone had this experience, that I am sure of, but when I hear that a christian tells someone that their religion is wrong, I'm reminded of people telling children that santa doesn't exist. It's opinionated and mean in my opinion and to base a religion on biggotry and selfishness is wrong. As I said this is most likely not true for all church going people, it was just the experience that I had.

   replyreport
   1. 77

      DoubleScorpionposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Pretty much the same experiences I have seen from the churches I have been at as well.

      replyreport
      1. 59

         mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         It is a disease. Is it not?

         replyreport
         1. 77

            DoubleScorpionposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            That would be one way to describe it.

            replyreport
         2. 71

            lone77starposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Yes, a disease. It's called "ego." It is an "equal-opportunity" disease and strikes all religions and all secular beliefs, too.

            replyreport
   2. 59

      Logrhedposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      To tell anyone that the place they hang their heart is just wrong... is ignorant...  and mean.  You  are right though that. " not everyone has the same experience".  For God to be God to YOU... you have not the right to demand an understanding of HIS will.  You might consider asking for it though.  Not to mention it is inpolite on even the most basic of terms... annnnnnd the jaded part is ego rising up to meat you.  The Bible tells us to be... to do... and to walk in ways that have no immediate instruction.  Now what a paradox!! we are left with.  On the other hand; Only if you annalize it from simply a humanist or imperialistic attitude.  You are taking your life in your own hands to Judge rather than using the judgment of the situation for your own discresion.  HE chose them...... not you.... He chose you as well.  He chose you as a Treasure ( as it says in the Greek and Hebrew) and to do with however He wishes.  The point is the value He places on the treasure.... and then what it could mean to you 
      
      We are commanded  to be... to do... and to recieve... without immediately setting up a set a rules to follow by rote for a reason.  We are to Trust Him just as Jesus did...... and when you trust Him and actualy DO something to honor the hope and confidence* that you have in Him... that is Faith.  Even if you don't see that in another.  The point being how much of it do you see in yourself.
      
      Going to Church per say was never the requirement anyway... You as a Christian are the church.   Now what are you going to DO about it ?

      replyreport
   3. 61

      Valerie Fposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      So is Jesus a bigot? Because to actually be Christian (as opposed to merely claiming to be Christian) is to follow Jesus. Real Christianity is based on the teachings and examples set by Jesus.

      replyreport
      1. 59

         autumn18posted 12 years agoin reply to this

         How come so many people get it wrong then? How come 2 people can have 2 differing ideas of what "true" Christianity is?

         replyreport
   4. 60

      Druid Dudeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I think that when break comes to break, we will all be in for a surprise.

      replyreport
   5. 52

      passingthewordposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      1. Don’t let people mess up what Jesus has done. It is said that people are the worst things to religion.
      2. Jesus was not religious. the religious people are the ones that killed him.
      But the Word of God (the Bible) is all you need to know what is right and what is of man.

      replyreport
2. 79

   skyfireposted 12 years ago

   I can guess what other pro-christian lurkers are planning to post in this thread.
   
   1.  You never allowed Christ to guide you in life.
   2.  You're being brainwashed by liberals.
   3.  You're going to rot in hell for betraying christ.
   4.  You're being misguided by a false religion.
   5.  You failed to understand that christ is the only way to salvation.
   6.  You'll regret for ignoring christ...
   7.  You should stay away from atheists and agnostics...
   8.  You must be obama's supporter or fan to do such thing.
   9.  You should consult with priest before taking such a harsh action.
   
   blah blah blah....

   replyreport
   1. 59

      mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Ha ha ha. I like the sarcasm, keep it coming. Nothing pleases the soul more than laughter and you have just made laugh. No really, I like your sense of humor and I appreciate the realism of what you just said.

      replyreport
      1. 60

         mom101posted 12 years agoin reply to this

         mischeviousme, I am sorry that you had such a bad experience with the church to feel led to leave.
         
         i do not attend a church. Almost for the same reason. Of the ones I have been in, all is fine and then you see the real deal. You know, what they are all about.
         
         I see it as ironic. The Bible tells us that satan was kicked out of Heaven because of his quest for power.................
         
         My opinion, of the churches I have attended, most of the ones in attendance are either  on a power quest, mapping out a political strategy or climbing a social ladder.
         
         There is NOTHING wrong with leaving a church. That does not mean you have turned your back on the most High. In fact, since I have left the church, I am much more in tune spiritually.
         
         The good book does say, shun the very presence of evil does it not?

         replyreport
         1. 59

            mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I left because of hypocracy and biggotry toward foreign belief. I see it as all the same with different words. I used to be part of the pack, until I met real people outside of the church. I had the opportunity to meet real Hindus and real Budhists and I found that we all have something in common. A connection to something higher, which none can understand and yet still some completely deny.

            replyreport
      2. 71

         lone77starposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Laughter is good medicine, true. But some throw the baby out with the bathwater and find themselves pleasantly relieved that their lives are suddenly simpler.
         
         All of the Christians who would do such un-Christian-like things have become lost, themselves--lost in ego. We all suffer from it. And it is the real enemy.
         
         That and listening to those who congratulate you for throwing out the noisy baby with the bathwater. They too miss the point of it all.

         replyreport
3. 57

   jakesullyposted 12 years ago

   I left the Church not because I'm an atheist, but because i'm anti-magical thinking.

   replyreport
   1. 59

      mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Great way to point out dellusional thinking. I totally agree.

      replyreport
      1. 71

         lone77starposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Delusion? What does that mean?
         
         Delusion is ignoring reality. Plenty of Christians do this (like a 6000-year universe). But delusion is also ignoring truth.
         
         We live in a created universe. I have experienced some of that "magic." And it was real enough to affect close to 2000 automobiles on one of the busiest streets in the world--like Moses parting the sea. And that happened only 34 years ago.
         
         I left my Southern Baptist minister grandfather's church because he was living in a shallow world of "fire and brimstone." I felt little love there.
         
         Intolerance is a disease of ego. Just like the intolerance of some atheists for religion. Like I said earlier, ego is an equal-opportunity disease.

         replyreport
         1. 58

            A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            In another thread, you stated that faith and belief were two different things. That would be "ignoring reality and ignoring truth"
            
            
            
            

            replyreport
4. 73

   jainismusposted 12 years ago

   You have taken a right decision. I too have stopped to visiting our temples from last 5 years. Every organized religions have become intolerant, I think.

   replyreport
   1. 71

      lone77starposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Not every one. Perhaps the time has come to tell those who are intolerant to find again the spirit of what their religion is all  about.
      
      Be the voice crying in the wilderness -- "Wake up!"

      replyreport
      1. 58

         A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         We're trying, but you just won't listen.

         replyreport
5. 60

   Disturbiaposted 12 years ago

   I left the church because I believe that all organized religions have their own agenda, one having more to do with power and control over the lives of their followers than saving souls. I was raised Catholic but I don't attend church, however I do take my kids to Midnight Mass on Christmas Eve basically because I find the celebration beautiful, I love the high mass, the singing of the church choir, and it's become kind of a tradition now. After mass, we go home and open our presents.  Interestingly enough, there are always more presents under the tree Christmas morning... I can never figure out just how they get there.

   replyreport
   1. 59

      mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      You have an antiburglar. One that leaves things instead of taking them.

      replyreport
      1. 60

         Disturbiaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         

         replyreport
6. 58

   A Troubled Manposted 12 years ago

   I left the church because they only served wine.

   replyreport
   1. 59

      mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Good joke.

      replyreport
   2. 77

      Mighty Momposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      What? That's heretical

      replyreport
      1. 0

         kimberlyslyricsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         ditto OMG  

         replyreport
      2. 58

         A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I know, but I had heard that church was advertising they could accomplish miracles and I thought they said beeracles.

         replyreport
7. 59

   MelissaBarrettposted 12 years ago

   I have an interesting perspective.  I left Wicca for Christianity but kept many of the Wicca ideals.  Divinity doesn't really impress me all that much as the deities that I use to look to for inspiration were archetypes with both good and bad qualities.  I guess I came into Christianity with those expectations still in my head.  I choose which parables in the bible inspire me and move me towards my ultimate goal and which traits in Jesus and God (still undecided on that one) that do the same. 
   
   I was lucky enough to find a church that had no established dogma and welcomed just about all faiths and ideas.  In that, I've been able to grow spiritually, because I'm constantly exposed to new ideas and teachings from every religion (and none). 
   
   So I guess that's why I CAME to the church... slightly off-topic but roll with me, it's been a rough morning.

   replyreport
   1. 59

      mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      The Unitarian Universalist church, right?

      replyreport
      1. 59

         MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Yes.  I really should put that on my profile somewhere.

         replyreport
         1. 59

            mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Alan Watts pretty much founded it, by accident. Who knew there were so many open minded people in the 50's, 60's and 70's?

            replyreport
            1. 59

               MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Not exactly.  There's a ridiculously long history involved but it's roots go back to the 15th century or so.  The UU church is actually a combination of unitarians and universalists.  Both(especially unitarinism) were fairly well-established religions on their own.  Unitarism still exists as a separate branch from UU.

               replyreport
               1. 59

                  mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  It was not made popular in the U.S. and England until Alan Watts did a number of lectures, paid for by the Unitarian church. Up until the 60's, most of the American public were still devout christians.

                  replyreport
                  1. 59

                     MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     Actually, Unitarianism has always had a firm hold in the U.S. especially in New England.  The Universalists were a little newer addition... I believe somewhere around the mid 1800s did they make their entrance.  Either way, considering that Unitarianism produced 6 U.S. Presidents, I think you might be over-estimating Watt's influence, if any, greatly.

                     replyreport
                     1. 60

                        LookingForWaldenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        The came in part from the transcendentalists like my homeboys Thoreau and Emerson.

                        replyreport
8. 61

   Disappearingheadposted 12 years ago

   I left the Church after 25 years in it. Little things had been building up;
   - I didn't like being told to get up and sing with my hands in the air.
   - I didn't like the sense that I was continually being assessed on my relationship with Jesus; was I continually striving forward; a 'God chaser'.
   - I didn't like the idea that I couldn't skip Church occasionally because that meant I had put something else before God and was tantamount to idolatry.
   - I hated all the emotional symbology as 'expressions of faith' that was supposed to effect change, such as 'let's all lay hands on this' or 'reach out to that'.
   - I hated all the nicey nicey pleasantville small talk; in the end I felt I had nothing in common with these people. Why were my unbelieving work colleagues much more of a laugh to be with?
   - I hated the pretence and self delusion that the Holy Spirit came down amoungst us when nothing could be further from the truth.
   - I hated the blaming of every 'bad' event or life disruption as being the work of satan.
   - I hated the weekly compulsion to tithe 10% off one's gross income before all taxes and stoppages to the 'local storehouse', failure to do so was robbing God.
   - I hated being told that I was not giving until I had first tithed.
   - I hated being told that God was going to torment all the unbelievers in hell and that their blood was on my hands if I didn't tell them.
   
   I research tithing and death and hell from the bible and discovered that what the bible said was so far removed from what the church said. I wrote a couple papers and sent them to my pastor. He didn't want to speak to me about what I wrote - so I left.

   replyreport
   1. 59

      mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Secular closed mindedness. It truly is shameful when something that is supposed to be pure is poisoned by blind opinion.

      replyreport
   2. 60

      Disturbiaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Disappearing head, I notice you start every sentence with "I hated" or "I didn't like" pardon my asking but why would you stay with something for 25 years that you felt so much animosity towards?  It's a good thing you left, that much pent up hostility is not healthy.

      replyreport
      1. 61

         Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         It didn't start that way; I was young impressionable and didn't question what I was spoonfed. It was when things reached the 'I hated' that I left. 'I hated' was the end state.

         replyreport
9. 56

   SanXuaryposted 12 years ago

   I am a true believer in God and the literal interpretation of the Bible but I find myself wondering what book are they reading? We open services praying for all the Earthly ills of Earthly people and never ask ourselves what is the Heavenly purpose for such things. When disaster strikes we blame God but the free will of people is often the reason for the disaster. It is fine to pray for Earthly results but it is far more important to understand the lesson and to grow spiritually and to mature. The Bible is a lesson plan providing the history and the story of human disaster and folly and is taken into the context of the individual and there own journey to salvation. Instead we often receive the context of an individual or organizations agenda based on Earthly and not Heavenly goals. Even this perspective of mine is not entitled to be argued in most churches. For it might challenge the self righteous personal agendas of a social caste system of group control and the self responsibility of a personal relationship with God that you can not have without their blessing. Questions of and knowledge of things outside of their way of thinking are condemned even though such things must exist and be part of this World. God did not explain how he created the World down to the last atom and so science can not exist for example. Yet we pick and choose the things that maintain fear and impose group control. Yes I am a social outcast in most churches for I do not follow the social status and kiss the ring on the hands of Worldly old men. Who limit my free will to learn and have common sense in order to find answers to the questions in my life that are required for me to save my own soul. Instead I choose to not stand in buildings of the invested Earthly money of there club members and pray for more as they judge me because I do not fit there ideals. They can call themselves conservatives and give there money to Political criminals and leave after services and be the Earthly and not Heavenly people that they truly are. In the end they are no different then the people they often condemn everyday and spiritually never got past first grade and then condemn me because my salvation was not based on my success on Earth.

   replyreport
   1. 59

      Logrhedposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Good points SanXuary... I like where you are going with this as an individual... I don't think God would ever be offended by the hunger for what is real in the spiritual sense of your life.  This hunger is a gift to you in earnest and part of the promise. To ignore that and head off on your to satisfy self is an excursion into hopelessness

      replyreport
   2. 59

      secularist10posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      When disaster strikes we blame God but the free will of people is often the reason for the disaster.
      
      Sounds like you are in agreement with the Iranian Muslim clerics:
      
      http://news.change.org/stories/this-jus … arthquakes
      
      http://articles.latimes.com/2010/apr/22 … s-20100423
      
      "...cleric Hojatoleslam Kazem Sedighi follows in an infamous line of religious zealots who believe that catastrophes, both natural and man-made, are actually a punishment from God. ... Rev. Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson, who blamed the 9/11 terrorist attack on abortion and homosexuality; John Hagee, who put Hurricane Katrina on the backs of gays and lesbians; and Rabbi Yehuda Levin, who thinks gay sex is really powerful, and caused the Haitian earthquake, the Chernobyl nuclear meltdown, and the 2004 tsunami in Asia."
      
      And they wonder why people leave the church...

      replyreport
10. 51

    shamelabboushposted 12 years ago

    Wow, you people have really nothing to do ay?

    replyreport
    1. 59

       mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Not really. I'm a writer and traveler by trade, so I have alot of time on my hands.

       replyreport
11. 61

    Smokes Angelposted 12 years ago

    I'd just like to say that not all Christians do the right thing.  After all they are human and not all of us are judgemental.  A true christian doesn't judge but loves you no matter what you have done in the past or may do.  Christ is not about judgement, He is about forgiveness.

    replyreport
    1. 56

       SanXuaryposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Its not about forgiving since you have to do something wrong first. Its about acceptance and finding sanctuary among fellow believers in search of answers and not ones bias of others. Belief requires seeking knowledge and includes argument and its interpretation in order to explain Gods plan in our own lives. Seeking God should not require the opinions and judgements of others based on themselves or dislikes of people who do not fit their order. When it is like this then one no longer has the ability to help others to seek salvation.

       replyreport
12. 62

    Perspycaciousposted 12 years ago

    There is a dilemma we each may face as you have described.  How do we choose to worship God and keep His commandments as taught for us by His Son?  Churches provide form and structure, support and community, even ritual and dogma.  God loves ALL his children, so much so that he allowed the mortal death of His only begotten son who made a perfect sacrifice for each of us.  The Talmud teaches:  "The test of a man's life is not his theology, but his life."  One can be in the right (?) church, the right (?) faith, adhering to  the right (?) dogma, but if the person is not devoted to charity, and derives pleasure from judging others, or from telling rather than encouraging others how they might better worship Almighty God, their life may not reach its divine potential.  Certainly we are not to judge in those cases either, for that is a test of our own natures and may be an area of our being we can still work on.

    replyreport
    1. 59

       mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       I felt that there was a lot of ignorance toward other faiths and beliefs. This just another reason I left. When I would say how I fet about it, I'd draw the attention of the dellusional bible thumpers. That kind of behavior is contagious to degree. Negativity spreads like a vrus, then it corupts the entire church and it used to be a nice place to go. Religion should be a beautiful thing, not something to use for casting judgement on anyone.

       replyreport
13. 62

    prettydarkhorseposted 12 years ago

    I was raised a Catholic. I am not active in "church life" anymore. When you say church, the "social aspect" of religion, socializing, is that it? I believe that the relationship to your God is personal.

    replyreport
    1. 59

       mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       What I was referring to was the fact that people of the church, use God's forgiveness as license to sin. I am a sinner no doubt about it, but I have also learned certain universal truths and they are just as true inside and out of any religion, church or faith.

       replyreport
       1. 56

          SanXuaryposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          The recognition of sin is the requirement in order to overcome our immaturity in terms of spiritual growth. It does not require the condemnation of others but the strength and positive reinforcement by helping one another to overcome it. When you over come your sins you establish sanctuary in your life and true spiritual growth. We all sin but it is the multitude of sins that destroy our lives. I am looking at an article that just sentenced a man to 500 lashes for blasphemy in Saudi Arabia. They asked leniency so they took a year off his sentence in prison. Could you imagine 500 lashes, talk about extreme. I wonder what God wanted, was 500 enough or should he get more?

          replyreport
          1. 59

             mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

             When we recognize that we are doing wrong, we strive to do better. Try to tell that to the ones that say "It's ok. God will forgive me".

             replyreport
             1. 59

                Logrhedposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                I know you are right..... somehow I have the feeling there is a millstone waiting for the neck of those that cause to stumble.. But He also told his deciples to allow even the ones that did not know him persoaly to teach.  He is the one that will work His work (Habukuk) and uses the foolishness of men to his own advantage in doing it.... God does have a sense of humor... take a look at Pharoah... the wheels fell off of his charriots... funniest thing I have ever heard LLLLLLLol

                replyreport
       2. 62

          prettydarkhorseposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Thanks for your response.
          
          I guess people are just different, there are some things that binds them to the church where they are attending like their family, social ties - the feeling of belongingness, security, social support etc. But in the end of course, your relationship with your God is personal. Religion is beneficial to many people, it is still an institution which is very influential in some peoples lives aside from school and family.
          
          Of course there are behavior which are deemed bad or good even if you don't belong to a church or have a religion for that matter. Culture and economic conditions play a big role in the behavior of people and there will always be a gap between the knowledge, attitude and practice towards things. People know what they are doing is bad, their attitude towards is negative, but they are still doing it. It makes the person bad not the religion.

          replyreport
          1. 59

             Logrhedposted 12 years agoin reply to this

             You are welcome.. it is easy to spot the center of the universe if it is sitting in your own living room, even the neighbors can see it.  However; if it is not so visable,,, then people will take a little more time to see just what it is that you are looking at if it is coming from a unique place.  Have a blessed day

             replyreport
14. 58

    Jeramiposted 12 years ago

    Its about acceptance and finding sanctuary among fellow believers in search of answers
    My question to myself is  …  What is the most important question that I am looking for?
    And where is the best place to find it?   If it is in the bible.  Where in the bible should we begin our journey?
     
    =====================================================
    Belief requires seeking knowledge and includes argument and its interpretation in order to explain Gods plan in our own lives.
    = - === -
    ME
    Gods plan for out lives; … is that we shouldn't worry too much about what our plan in life is   "supposed to be" ?    make your own plan, ... hurting no one while we are doing it..  If everyone did that; we wouldn't have SOooo  much to worry about these days.
         OR
      The way Grand Pa used to tell it ...
    Make it through this life,  stepping on as few toes as possible,   enjoying as much comfort as Ya want, using as  much/little  effort as You want to spend; ...
    cause that is where you are going be some day.

    replyreport
    1. 56

       SanXuaryposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       I found that the Bible made complete sense to me by asking this series of questions. How does this explain and how does this establish sanctuary in my life, my home and everywhere I go. I believe that we are selfish first because we must save our own souls first. When we mature we leave are selfishness behind and build sanctuary in our home. The hardest thing is to then establish a honourable life and sanctuary for others outside of our control. We must remember that all people have free will and Earth allows those to decide their own fate. I by going to God first and seeking our goals in heaven we see life away from Earth and begin to see Gods plan for yourself.

       replyreport
       1. 58

          Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          SanXuary wrote
             .......    sanctuary in my life, my home and everywhere I go.I by going to God first and seeking our goals in heaven we see life away from Earth and begin to see Gods plan for yourself.
          
          =========
          
          
            Yes these are true  and it is Gods plan for us to find these things.
          in him. 
          I feel like asking... 
          How did he accomplish this during the first 4000 years;  before we invented the bible? 
           
            Sorry,...  your post brings multiple topics to mind, for me to comment on.  This is the best that I can do for right now.

          replyreport
          1. 56

             SanXuaryposted 12 years agoin reply to this

             I asked the same question what did we know before the Bible. I am no Buddhist but was amazed that his ideas minus faith in a God was proof that we will seek the same goals regardless of faith. Trapped between Hindus  and Muslims he sought peace and no God at all. Even stranger still our those who worship Buddha when he was a devout atheist. I do not pose this as a reason to believe in Buddhism but as an example that people will always have a desire to believe in something and no faith is still a religion.

             replyreport
          2. 56

             SanXuaryposted 12 years agoin reply to this

             I asked the same question what did we know before the Bible. I am no Buddhist but was amazed that his ideas minus faith in a God was proof that we will seek the same goals regardless of faith. Trapped between Hindus  and Muslims he sought peace and no God at all. Even stranger still our those who worship Buddha when he was a devout atheist. I do not pose this as a reason to believe in Buddhism but as an example that people will always have a desire to believe in something and no faith is still a religion.

             replyreport
          3. 56

             SanXuaryposted 12 years agoin reply to this

             I asked the same question what did we know before the Bible. I am no Buddhist but was amazed that his ideas minus faith in a God was proof that we will seek the same goals regardless of faith. Trapped between Hindus  and Muslims he sought peace and no God at all. Even stranger still our those who worship Buddha when he was a devout atheist. I do not pose this as a reason to believe in Buddhism but as an example that people will always have a desire to believe in something and no faith is still a religion.

             replyreport
          4. 56

             SanXuaryposted 12 years agoin reply to this

             I asked the same question what did we know before the Bible. I am no Buddhist but was amazed that his ideas minus faith in a God was proof that we will seek the same goals regardless of faith. Trapped between Hindus  and Muslims he sought peace and no God at all. Even stranger still our those who worship Buddha when he was a devout atheist. I do not pose this as a reason to believe in Buddhism but as an example that people will always have a desire to believe in something and no faith is still a religion.

             replyreport
          5. 56

             SanXuaryposted 12 years agoin reply to this

             I asked the same question what did we know before the Bible. I am no Buddhist but was amazed that his ideas minus faith in a God was proof that we will seek the same goals regardless of faith. Trapped between Hindus  and Muslims he sought peace and no God at all. Even stranger still our those who worship Buddha when he was a devout atheist. I do not pose this as a reason to believe in Buddhism but as an example that people will always have a desire to believe in something and no faith is still a religion.

             replyreport
15. 0

    kimberlyslyricsposted 12 years ago

    Question;  how do you leave a church ?  :

    replyreport
    1. 79

       MickeySrposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       . . . not 'the church' as in the fellowship of believers or the body of Jesus, but when I left a particular congregation some years ago, I did so in this fashion - I just tipped my hat and slowly rode away.

       replyreport
       1. 0

          kimberlyslyricsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          oh ok cool mickey, thanks

          replyreport
          1. 79

             MickeySrposted 12 years agoin reply to this

             Actually, in Christian theological terms (I think, in truth) you cannot leave the church. As the Bible uses the word "church"  the church is not the same thing as a local congregation or an international denomination . . . the First Baptist Church down on the corner is a congregation not a or the church, The United Methodists are a denomination not a or the church. The church, according to the Bible and historic Christian theology, is the whole collection of believers throughout the ages . . . some may be Baptists and some may be Methodists, etc, but all together all those who are authentically Christian make-up the church.
             
             And, again according to the Bible and the historic Christian teaching, you cannot leave the church. You don't become a Christian by going to church - you become a part of the church by becoming a Christian. . . and you become a Christian as you are adopted by God. Just like you can stop interacting with your family, just as you can stop joining them for holidays or speaking to them at all, etc, but are still of their hereditary lineage, you are still a member of that family, in the same way you can not go to Sunday meetings or have any contact with preachers and pews, etc, but you are still a Christian, still part of the family, still a member of the true church.

             replyreport
             1. 0

                kimberlyslyricsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                thanks mickey, just curious do you know where that first church was located?

                replyreport
                1. 79

                   MickeySrposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                   That can be a tricky call for some; lots of folks commonly think of the Christian church starting with Jesus (and many hostile to Christianity will assert it started with Paul) but Christianity was not at all a new religion started in New Testament times. In the very beginning God promised a Messiah would come, that it would be through this Messiah that He would make His family, or, build His church. Those who trust in this promise are those who are God's own people, His family, His church . . . those who (in the Old Testament, before Jesus) trusted that this Messiah would come are part of God's church, and those who now (after Jesus came) who trust that the Messiah did indeed come are part of that same church.
                   
                   So, the first church group, the first congregation of believers after Jesus had come, were located in Jerusalem (where Jesus in fact came) - but in a very real sense the first church started with Adam and Eve and Seth, etc. The actual big difference between the Old and the New Testaments is this; in the OT men looked forward to the coming of the promised Messiah, in the NT men look back at the coming of the promised Messiah - Christianity is not a new religion that started with Jesus & His apostles, it is the very first idea about God, because it was God's own revelation of Himself in the very beginning.

                   replyreport
                   1. 59

                      Logrhedposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                      Good answer MickeySr!!..... The timeline goes into Eternity Past and starts in time when He Recreated the earth as mentioned in Ephesians 1 and Genisis 1,,, the first church was in the Garden of Eden.  The fact that He created Man as some stumble over...  Adam was created and the one with whom the Promise started and has continued to this day

                      replyreport
16. 60

    bbnixposted 12 years ago

    It's time to move beyond "church" or "religion" and simply care about people, good and bad....and not coddle the "bad," but figure out what turns a perfect child into something dangerous and build a world around that....without invading people's lives, and ultimately, embracing everyone's inherent differences.....now that's spiritual...

    replyreport
    1. 59

       Logrhedposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       It is a human trait to cling to what brings comfort and defend it.. the objective of turning it into something without the One that created it is a religion... and not what Jesus had in mind and the reason he abraded the Pharisees

       replyreport
       1. 56

          SanXuaryposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          I believe the New Testament and the condemnation of the established church when Jesus arrived was a clear example that religion was not what he wanted. I also believe that constant growth is required in order to move forward in seeking salvation. It never made sense to me that being born again was all I needed to do in order to call myself saved. I believe at that moment you our saved like the murderer on the cross but if he had murdered again that his salvation would be in question. Still I believe that sin is a source of self improvement by over coming it.

          replyreport
          1. 59

             Logrhedposted 12 years agoin reply to this

             Ummmmm,  the one that spoke to Jesus on the cross and met him in paradise was a thief... the one that scoffed at Him was a murderer
             
             Jesus said.... I will build MY church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it..... this does not give me license to sin... it gives me hope that He is able to accomplish above all that we could perceive... the walk with Him gives me the confidence
             
             Ye though I walk through the Valley of the Shadow of Death... Most people don’t know that this is a literal place... it still exists,  It is an extremely dangerous narrow windy trail that the sheepherders used to go from one grassy plane to another through the seasons.  the sides of the cliffs through most of the trail was at least hundreds to thousands of feet from the gorge below,,, in certain parts of the year the sun would go behind the mountains and shadow the cliffs below as they traveled making it impossible for the sheep to follow because eyesight... the sheep would follow the Shepherd in the dark by following his voice... He would sing and talk to them as they went.   If a lamb became unruly and didn’t follow the rest he would actually break the leg of the animal and carry that animal on his shoulders until the leg healed... never putting the lamb down except to graze... He would even water the animal on his shoulders. 
             
             He is the author of our faith... in spite of our personal aspirations for self-improvement... Sin is a Tragedy true... but it is a fact of life and inescapable

             replyreport
             1. 56

                SanXuaryposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Good catch and my point exactly but he could have been saved. Still he would have had to answer for the persons life he cut short and did not afford the time to get his life right with God. Only our personal relationship with God allows us to determine where we are with him and where we our in the body and what purpose we serve.

                replyreport
                1. 59

                   Logrhedposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                   I've a mind that says that even Judas could have been saved.  What stopped it was his viewpoint. 
                   
                   The same word brings life to some and death to others... Hence we are told to work out our salvation with fear and trembling... not that we could miss it... after all.. we were called.  On the other hand if we are looking at the power of the One who provided it... trembling could be in gratuitous supply LLLLlol  if we are looking at ourselves and our own aspirations.... Ummmm... not so much maybe   Jesus paid the price for the whole world.. not part of it... that means that every single one of us, from the electron particle at the center of the earth to even you LLLLLol has the potential of Salvation... He is the one that does the calling... He is the one that does the choosing... as I said in the beginning... all are called with the same Word... it brings life to some and death to others.. Our personal relationship?  Our individual purpose was known when He chose us in Eternity Past.... Eph:1 ( that was before time )... before He restored the earth the second time and created Adam... some stumble over other men being around at the same time maybe.. the point is.. the promise was given to Adam... the one He created.... that means you were chosen before there was anything.. He and the Holly Spirit and Christ got together during a coffee break and they agreed...... ' Hey !! Lets do a SanXuary!!'  and He kept His word didn’t He ?

                   replyreport
                   1. 56

                      SanXuaryposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                      It really makes you wonder what this life on Earth is really about. Thinking beyond that point and to beyond is even more perplexing and a total mystery. The meek who inherit the Earth and the many prophets some who knew little about God or so called Religion. When they were told what to do some of them did not think they were qualified and did not want to be picked.

                      replyreport
17. 71

    lone77starposted 12 years ago

    @mischeviousme, those are some pretty good reasons to leave a congregation. And it seems to me that there are too many congregations that harbor prejudice, judgment and tolerance of sin with an idea that forgiveness is a blank check for sin.
    
    Following Christ is not about going to church, saying "10 Hail Mary's," or being baptized. It's not about rolling on the floor or professing that you've been "born again," either. Following Christ is about loving God more than anything, including our own viewpoints, our desires, and our goals. It's about being like him--compassionate and faithful. And "faith" is far above mere mortal "belief."
    
    Too many are attached to their own egos. By that they are following the master of this world, not Christ.

    replyreport
    1. 59

       mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       The church should not be a den of inequity, but a place of fellowship and the love we should share for God and all people. Not a place where fleshly desire and as you said, egotistical venture. I totally agree with your statement and appreciate the clarity in which thou spake.

       replyreport
18. 0

    Emile Rposted 12 years ago

    I never really thought about it. I don't think I was ever, really, a part of a church. That's probably why most leave, or join. Because you feel a part of something.
    
    Drawing close to the spirit is an individual endeavor. No church, or organization, can accomplish this for an individual; nor can it be achieved as a group, imo. So church served no function in my mind.
    
    Maybe if I had been raised in an environment where the church tried more to embody the spirit things would have been different. We did charity work, but the thread that tied the adults together was one where I perceived the nose to be up, while the helping hand was extended. I was as embarrassed as the needy were offended.
    
    So, bottom line. I sat in judgment of the actions of others. I have, self righteously, turned my back on those who I perceived as self righteous.
    
    I stay away because I think it is pointless to attempt  to locate God in religion. They've chosen to form  a god in their own image and I'm not sure it is possible to conjure a god. Nor do I respect the one they are attempting to create.

    replyreport
19. 61

    Dave Mathewsposted 12 years ago

    I feel sorry for all those who have fallen away from "Christianity", not necessarily from a specific "Church". If "Christianity" proves to be the truth, as I believe it to be, and you have fallen away from it, and chosen not to believe in or accept God as God and Jesus as the path to redemption, then you have through your own choice condemned yourself to a life without God and His love. On the other hand, if, regardless of religious affiliation choose to believe in God and the redemptive powers of Jesus, the day will come when you will see God face to face and receive His eternal love, rather than facing an existance without Him and the suffering that goes with that. This is your choice.

    replyreport
20. 79

    MickeySrposted 12 years ago

    mischeviousme "I'm reminded of people telling children that santa doesn't exist. It's opinionated and mean in my opinion and to base a religion on biggotry and selfishness is wrong."
    
    
    But mischeviousme, Santa factually doesn't exist. It may indeed be mean to tell a young child there is no such thing as Santa Claus, but it's not an opinion it's the truth . . .  and to advance, like I am doing here right now, that Santa Clause doesn't exist, isn't based on bigotry or selfishness, it's simply the factual truth. You express a sentiment I never understand - would you rather be a part of and participate in a religion that in fact does not actually believe it presents the truth . . ? . . that believes that all the variant, contrary religious notions are merely schemes to make us feel good and imagine we have answers?
    
    If some new fad diet doesn't really work at all and is only some guy's scheme to make money, it's not mean or selfish or bigoted to declare it as such and undermine it's acceptance - Christianity's message is that there is one true God and that Jesus is the only way to Him, if you don't really believe that then you're not really a Christian, and if you do believe that and you are a Christian then how and why would you tell people who assert that Baal is God or that Mohammed and Buddha are the way to God that they teach the truth?
    
    I fear your experience was getting caught-up in a 21st century American false notion of Christianity that just wants to be yet another path at peace with whatever anyone wants to believe, not embracing authentic Christianity.  Biblical Christianity is not about opinion, religious prejudice, etc - authentic Christianity is an account of the historic record, it is pointing to the event of Jesus' coming and atonement . . . it's not about 'my religion is better than your religion', it's about proclaiming what the truth is.
    
    Is it opinionated, mean, selfish, and bigoted to assert that there is no King Neptune who lives in and rules the seas?

    replyreport
    1. 59

       mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       To me, the truth is subjective and the notion is universal. The entire world had developed some form of spirituallity many times over. I was using the Santa refferance to point how bullies treat younger children and of course it may be true that he does not exist.
       
          I believe Jesus was chosen by God and by God, I mean he had divine matters in mind. But I don't think people are getting the jist of what I saying. I am saying that one should love the teacher for the teaching, but follow the teaching and move on to another. The substance is primarily the same no matter where one goes. And again, this is how I feel. I'm not trying to sell anyone on my point of view, nor am I trying to get people to come over to my side. I am merely stating my feelings and they have nothing to do with biggotry or the like there of.
       
            Of course I would eventually tell my children that santa doesn't exist (if I had children). Then again, I also wouldn't indoctrinate them either. I would teach them to seek the truth as they see it, much as my parents did for me.

       replyreport
21. 56

    SanXuaryposted 12 years ago

    Putting your faith in God and not man and his so called organized religion seems like a pretty important test to me. If it takes a church to believe in God you better become a monk or a nun and never leave the place. I am not critical of God at all, or every church and believer. There are many believers who have ties to some churches who know that they are false. They remain apart of them because they have so much at stake in them. Are they going to hell only God and that individual knows that answer. It is my belief that each individual has a different purpose and part of the body to fill in Gods so called church. Each person has a critical set of things he must learn and understand in order to mature. This is why so many churches fail so many people. They believe that you our a customer who must buy into their product and then meet there expectations. Most of their expectations are based on meeting Earthly requirements and not Heavenly ones. When you dop not act the way that they expect you to then you our given no sanctuary. This is seldom a so called response from a fellow believer but one of a Earthly judging and shallow human who believes that the guidelines set out as the group norm in their congregation has allowed them to judge, condemn and control others that they think they are more righteous of.

    replyreport
22. 61

    ChristFanaticposted 12 years ago

    Praying for you brother!  People aren't perfect, even Christians!  Its a shame of the number hypocrites there are in churches.  I encourage you to read the bible and talk to God about your faith.  Jesus is the main focus, not corrupt pastors or fake christians!  God Bless!

    replyreport
23. 70

    AshtonFireflyposted 12 years ago

    I'm afraid to try to go to church anymore. Most people are fake. And hypocritical. And judgemental. Not all, but most.
    I think where people go wrong is putting to much emphasis on "the church" as an estalishment and an "organization." or something. It tends to make people treat is like it's a...business. And the people feel like they have to be "holy" and "superChristians" when they are at church. It's terribly fake. It's like watching a live theatre performance. You can pick out the liars pretty easy.
    On a more positive note, I have been to a few churches where I felt so loved I could barely stand it.
    Still. That's my experience..

    replyreport
    1. 62

       Perspycaciousposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Check Matthew 7:1 and then read over what you have just written.

       replyreport
       1. 70

          AshtonFireflyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          I'm not sure what your point is.

          replyreport
       2. 70

          AshtonFireflyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          If you are suggesting that I'm judging them, I am not. I'm saying it as it is. If someone's hypocritical, they're hypocritical. If they're fake, they're fake. If they aren't loving, they aren't loving. I say this from having experienced Church, as a Christian and seen what goes on for years.

          replyreport
          1. 62

             Perspycaciousposted 12 years agoin reply to this

             Asserting that you know someone is hypocritical, someone else is a fake, while others are not loving, or that a church (even ones where you "felt so loved as to barely stand it") was treated by some "like it's a...business" sounds as if you have reached your final judgement of them; this even though "having experienced Church, as a Christian" you would recognize that people and groups of people can change, becoming better or worse, but at least able to change.  Perhaps they will be less hypocritical, more loving, less phoney, more sympathetic, etc. tomorrow?  If they did, would  you feel differently about them then?

             replyreport
             1. 70

                AshtonFireflyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Of course they can change. It wasn't a final judgement. It was an observation of a current situation.

                replyreport
24. 79

    ii3rittlesposted 12 years ago

    Church is not what it use to be, and neither are Christians. What I have come to realize is that some of the most judging and hypocrite people are in fact, Christians. A true Christian will not say someone's beliefs are wrong. They will accept them as equal like God. God loves us all and we all are sinners. A lot of Christian churches wont even let gays in. That's horrible. Yes, being gay is a sin but so is lying and a sin is a sin in God's eyes. If your going to kick out gays, kick out anyone who has ever lied, stolen, ect. then too.
    
    Being a Christian isn't about being better then other people. It's not about calling people names or judging them for not sharing the same beliefs. If anything, they are doing what God doesn't want. He wants us all to love our brothers and sisters, no matter color, nor sex, nor race, nor beliefs.
    
    People fail to understand that WE ARE ALL FALLEN PEOPLE! No one walking this earth is sin free. If not in action, in our thoughts, we sin.
    
    I have no religion. I love God, I believe Jesus died for all our sins and I do my best to live by Jesus' and God's teachings. If that makes me a Christian, fine, but I will never state I have a religion because like everything else in this world, religion is just a corruption of our spiritual beliefs. It's just a label. My beliefs don't need no name. I am who I am and I know God loves me.

    replyreport
    1. 70

       AshtonFireflyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       

       replyreport
    2. 59

       mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       I think these days, that Christianity seems to be more of a status symbol, than that of a religion. "I'm better than you because I'm a Christian". That kind of attitude is destroying the image of the churches that these people go to.

       replyreport
       1. 70

          AshtonFireflyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          I agree 100 percent. If people focused more on what it MEANS tobe a Christian instead of self-righteously asserting their own "holiness," the world would be much different.

          replyreport