An Anti-Abortion Bill to be Presented to the Governor of Kansas

1. 84

   gmwilliamsposted 11 years ago

   According to Huffington Post and Reuters, the Kansas House of Representatives passed a bill on Friday, April 5, 2013 on a 90/30 vote declaring that  "life" now begins at fertilization. This is after the Kansas senate blocked the bill on a 28/10 vote.  Republican and staunchly pro-life Governor Sam Brownback is expected to sign the bill into law.  Republicans are the majority in the House of Representatives. 
   
   Besides the bill stating that "life" begins at fertilization, the bill also mandates that abortion clinic employees do not provide information relating to abortion in schools an, bans tax credits for abortion services.  The bill further dictates that abortion provides discuss fetal development and abortion risks to those seeking abortion.   The bill bans abortions based solely upon the gender of the fetus.   
   
   This bill, if passed, will be a slippery slope towards the banning of abortions.  It is a woman's right to obtain abortion if she wishes.  No one has the right to deny a woman access to abortion.  This bill, if passed, will be highly intrusive in the lives of girls and women.   Woman everywhere, especially in Kansas, should protest this draconian and atavistic bill. The government had better keep their hands of our wombs.

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      Onusonusposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Sounds like the bill is stating the obvious. That whole natural law thing is hard for liberals to comprehend. It is things that are evident in nature made into law. Like the inalienable right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
      

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   Uninvited Writerposted 11 years ago

   The whole thing life begins at fertilization is ridiculous, next they will be calling taking birth control abortion.

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      Gcrhoads64posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Some already do: http://www.abortionfacts.com/learn-inc/ … nd-control

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      gmwilliamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Totally concur.   I said that the anti-abortion bill which states that "life" begins at fertilization is a dangerously slippery slope.   Women in Kansas had better start protesting to prevent this bill and/or overturn it if the bill is signed. No woman should ever be forced to endure an unwanted pregnancy. 
      
      Reproductive freedom is the hallmark of a progressive society.   It is sad that these theocrats want to plunge this country into another atavistic Dark Age.   Well, this is NOT going to happen-there are TOO MANY intelligent, educated, and progressive women who will NEVER tolerate this assault on their reproductive liberty.

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         abt79posted 10 years agoin reply to this

         "reproductive liberty"
         if you want to have your murderous reproductive liberty, then you should wind back time to 1925 and become the leader of the National Socialist Party in Germany.

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3. 61

   Paul Wingertposted 11 years ago

   I guess they never heard of Roe vs. Wade. If you want to experience life in an 18th Century 3rd world country, visit to one of those Bible thumping states.

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      gmwilliamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      +1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000!

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   Marquisposted 11 years ago

   Roe v. Wade is CRAP. Thank God there are people who respect life.

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5. 93

   habeeposted 11 years ago

   I'm curious: for those of you who don't think life begins at conception, when do you think it begins? At four weeks after conception, the fetal heart is pumping blood. Is that life? What non-living thing has a heart that pumps blood?
   
   And, BTW, I don't think early abortion should be illegal. BUT...the woman getting the abortion should be able to admit to herself that she's killing a potential future human being. It's not a mouse, a bug, or a puppy.
   
   Personally, I hate abortion, except in rare circumstances. If Roe v Wade is overturned, however, the problem won't be solved. Wealthy women will still get safe abortions, while impoverished women will get dangerous abortions from "quacks." What we need is more sex education, easier and free access to birth control, a better economy, and more financial stability for young women. I'm sure there are at least some women who get abortions who would like to keep and rear their babies, IF they felt that they could offer the baby any quality of life once it's born.

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      wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      It's not just a question of life, but human life.  At what point does a zygote become human?
      
      That is a defined point, not a scientific one, and it is up to society to define it.  Should they ever do so (as in this bill) then abortion is also defined as well; anything before that point is not murder, anything after is.  Which is why this bill would seem to afoul of Roe vs Wade.  While the SCOTUS neglected to define a point, it was definitely not at conception.

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         abt79posted 10 years agoin reply to this

         In the opinion of most scientists that graduated sixth grade and are not unrealistically biased, a person's life begins at conception.

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   prettydarkhorseposted 11 years ago

   Fed judge Korman said that FDA should make Plan B morning after pill available to females of all ages within the month, I think Kansas House Bill is opposing that too. I support Obama's stand about the morning after pill.

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      gmwilliamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Seems that the MIdwest and Southern states want to return to the 1950s or maybe the Dark Ages where EVERYONE who was not of the "proper gender, race, class, and other standing" were damned and marginalized so to speak.   Prettydarkhorse, these Midwestern and Southern pundits want women to be in their"image" so to speak.  They want male hegemony over women's reproductive freedom.   What are these people "thinking".    Well, in their estimation, if a woman decides to be sexually active, then she should face "the penalty" therein.   What atavistic logic!
      
      
      

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         prettydarkhorseposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         It is their culture and I think we can't just impose ours to them. I believe society becomes more accepting of certain behavior (same sex marriage for example) as time goes by.

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         Marquisposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         That is a bunch of crap.

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7. 65

   Marquisposted 11 years ago

   Abortion is murder. Marriage is between a man and a woman. A family should have two parents, not two men husbands or two women wives.
   
   Normalcy and propery ways is what MOST people want. THAT is how society has existed for thousands of years. It does NOT need to be perverted by ingrates.

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      peeplesposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      "A family should have two parents, not two men husbands or two women wives."
      And when that fails and a child ends up with no parents or one, then what? What exactly do you think should happen if a woman gets pregnant when she is not wanting or capable of taking care of a child?

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         gmwilliamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         

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         Marquisposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         I said my say and I am staying by it. A family should have TWO parents, not two men husbands or two women wives.
         
         It has been proven to work. Sure terrible things do happen but the best option is the first option which has worked for thousands of years.

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            peeplesposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Great if that works for you, but ignoring and pretending anything you don't like is icky doesn't fix anything. Gay couples are a great option for fixing the children left behind by straight couples who failed!

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      gmwilliamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Marquis, I am going to give you a time machine so you can go back to 12th century Europe where the Church was supreme, men and women had dichotomous gender roles, and those who did not agree with the prevailing societal views were either excommunicated, exiled, and/or burned at the stake. 
      

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         Marquisposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         I would love to have the time machine. I would first make sure Karl Marx is not born.
         
         I have been active with the church for many years. Going back to the 12th century is not necessary. Doing things the right way is what I am about. Not making excuses and doing things the wrong way.
         
         I am a conservative FOREVER until the Leftist cancer is stopped dead in its tracks. The Left is a perversion; it is a cancer in the host body doing damage to both the mind and brain.

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            MelissaBarrettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            

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            gmwilliamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            
            
            Marquis, you be WHAT you are and us liberals will be WHAT we are!
            
            
            Marquis, you can fight change; however, those who REFUSE to CHANGE and GROW, will eventually STAGNATE and ATROPHY.  It is BEST that you change and grow with the times.  Progress is NOT necessarily a four-letter word, now,isn't it?
            

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               Marquisposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               I am ok with some change, but others are not needed. Things that work should not be perverted and called change.
               
               There are many that feel as I do. By the way, I am Black. So you should use a pic of Clarence Thomas.

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                  Josakposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  People said the same thing about slavery, 'it's worked fro so long" so many evil things have and have been removed and made society better, marriage inequality is just another one in that list.

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                     Marquisposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     Slavery is not the same thing. Mixing apples with oranges again are we?

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   3. 84

      gmwilliamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      This the the 21st century, not the DARK AGES.
      

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      Zelkiiroposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      You're about 800 years too late for that medieval rhetoric, buddy.

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         gmwilliamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         
         
         Ah, the Middle Ages, where men and women knew their respective places, when marriages were sacred and between men and women only, when the Church ruled supreme and ALL OTHERS who did not agree were.............
         
         
         SEVERELY OSTRACIZED AND DEHUMANIZED.  Some of us have thankfully evolved from such atavistic, medieval notions of marriage and gender roles.   There are elements that wish to return to the "glorious" medieval times.   Totally unbelievable to say the least.

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8. 76

   Reality Bytesposted 11 years ago

   The line must be drawn.....somewhere!
   
   
   Abortion Doctor’s Murder Trial Opens
   
   PHILADELPHIA — In opening statements in court on Monday, prosecutors charged that a doctor who operated a women’s health clinic here killed seven viable fetuses by plunging scissors into their necks and “snipping” their spinal cords and was also responsible for the death of a pregnant woman in his care.
   
   The physician, Dr. Kermit Gosnell, 72, is charged with seven counts of first-degree murder as well as multiple counts of conspiracy, criminal solicitation and violation of a state law that forbids abortions after the 24th week of pregnancy. Dr. Gosnell had operated the Women’s Medical Society in West Philadelphia.
   
   “If the baby is alive and you don’t want it to be, that doesn’t mean you have the right to take a pair of scissors and plunge it into the baby’s neck,” Ms. Pescatore told the jury during opening arguments of a trial that is expected to continue for four to six weeks.
   
   She also accused Dr. Gosnell of falsifying clinic records to show that no abortions had been performed beyond the legal limit of 24.5 weeks of pregnancy, and of storing fetal remains throughout the clinic, including 20 to 30 jars containing only their feet.
   
   “Disturbing: that’s an understatement,” Ms. Pescatore said as Dr. Gosnell, wearing a dark suit and taking notes on a yellow legal pad, listened from the defense table. “Was he keeping trophies for what he had done?
   
   http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/19/us/ph … .html?_r=0
   
   

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      Uninvited Writerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      And no one in their right might would support things like that happening. He is being tried by the law and what he did was not legal. He sounds like a bit of a psychopath if you ask me.  You are good at picking out the most heinous stories...

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      wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Off the subject but I have to ask.  Why did you post the photo?
      
      You had me hooked (although I had seen that before) with a question followed by a rational set of factual material pertinent to the question.  I accepted it as true.
      
      Then the picture, apparently for no other means than to raise an emotional response to go along with the facts.  All it does for me is cause me to doubt the veracity of the "facts" - if they are real then no emotional response is needed.
      
      So...why ruin a good argument with an irrelevant picture that only harms the argument?  Is that what we've come to now - if you can't convince 'em with facts, make 'em mad and hope for the best?  Just curious.

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         Reality Bytesposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Because I feel everyone could agree on something.  If a baby is born, even if it is during an abortion procedure, it is murder.
         
         Hoping to gain a consensus.
         
         There is a point that should not be crossed.

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            peeplesposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            I think most people (anyone with a heart and any sign of empathy) would agree with that.

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            Reality Bytesposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            PLANNED PARENTHOOD REP SAYS MOTHER AND DOCTOR STILL HAVE RIGHT TO DECIDE BABY’S FATE IF BORN ALIVE AND ‘BREATHING’ ON A TABLE
            
            Alisa LaPolt Snow with Florida Alliance of Planned Parenthood Affiliates presented this perspective, saying in the hearing that even if a child were born alive, she believes it is still the mother’s right to decide its fate.
            
            
            Alisa LaPolt Snow with Florida Alliance of Planned Parenthood Affiliates (Image: YouTube screenshot)
            The Weekly Standard pointed out to a clip from the full committee hearing, which took place Wednesday, where Snow was questioned by representatives about the position:
            
            “So, um, it is just really hard for me to even ask you this question because I’m almost in disbelief,” said Rep. Jim Boyd. “If a baby is born on a table as a result of a botched abortion, what would Planned Parenthood want to have happen to that child that is struggling for life?”
            “We believe that any decision that’s made should be left up to the woman, her family, and the physician,” said Planned Parenthood lobbyist Snow.
            Rep. Daniel Davis then asked Snow, “What happens in a situation where a baby is alive, breathing on a table, moving. What do your physicians do at that point?”
            “I do not have that information,” Snow replied. “I am not a physician, I am not an abortion provider. So I do not have that information.”
            
            Rep. Jose Oliva followed up, asking the Planned Parenthood official, “You stated that a baby born alive on a table as a result of a botched abortion that that decision should be left to the doctor and the family. Is that what you’re saying?”
            Again, Snow replied, “That decision should be between the patient and the health care provider.”
            
            http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/03 … n-a-table/
            
            
            Planned Parenthood testifies that what this doctor was doing was....uhm...ok?

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9. 58

   MelissaBarrettposted 11 years ago

   
   
   Do any of you think this is a chicken?
   
   Yeah, me neither.
   
   There's a point there somewhere.  Assemble it yourself.

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      peeplesposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Mmmmm breakfast for dinner.

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10. 65

    Marquisposted 11 years ago

    It is interesting. Why would my mother say things were better back then? My grandfather said the same thing.

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       Zelkiiroposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Two words: nostalgia.
       
       To me, everything was better in the 90s. To my older cousins, everything was better in the 80s. To my aunts and uncles, everything was better in the 70s. To my younger cousins, everything was better in the 00s. Etc.

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          Marquisposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Too bad my grandfather had to live long enough to see the United States become perverted by a few individuals who were hijacking the U.S. Constitution.

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             Zelkiiroposted 11 years agoin reply to this

             And we're so terribly sorry that your racist, plutocratic grandfather felt that way.

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                Marquisposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Hey brainiac, I am Black. And so is he. And you do not know my grandfather. He did not envision THIS.
                
                He also hates the fact that perverts try to pass off what they are going through with what Black people went through which is disgusting. So get lost with your race card attempt. That made you look so silly. I bet you think all Conservatives are Whites.
                
                NOT!

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                   Zelkiiroposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                   If you're black, why would you align yourself with a political party that despises you by default?

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                      abt79posted 10 years agoin reply to this

                      I'm Republican. I hate racism. So your technically racist(or i guess "party-ist" HEY NEW WORD!) are false.

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                Marquisposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                My uncle is a racist. He is also a Muslim who hates ALL Jews and Whites.  He hates Liberals too.
                
                Guess you can say he hates anyone or thing not Black, right?

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             Josakposted 11 years agoin reply to this

             Yeah frankly we fixed the problems your grandfather lived through, this "great time" he harks back to is the time of Jim Crow, of women having inferior rights, of lynchings and the imprisonment of innocent Japanese Americans, frankly anyone who thinks it was better is the ingrate. Not to say it wasn't better for the white, Christian, American from the middle class... Though actually economically speaking it was not, we are far wealthier now than we were 50 years ago.

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                Marquisposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Once again, you are another lost puppy assuming THINGS. Refer yourself to my comment addressed to the other brainiac above and then just be silent.
                
                Black Conservatives exist are are tired of the Liberal crapola too.

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11. 74

    cheaptrickposted 11 years ago

    After raising a couple of kids I've come to the conclusion that they're going the wrong way on limits to when you can have an abortion. They should extend the length of time you can abort the kid to eighteen years...just incase the kid goes bad...Let's take a cue from the animal kingdom; Alligators eat their young at times.

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       abt79posted 10 years agoin reply to this

       Funny, yet in an immoral and sick way, that makes you seem like a murderer more than a comedian.

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    Marquisposted 11 years ago

    We should get back on topic.
    
    Abortion is wrong and should be illegal.

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    1. 84

       gmwilliamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Abortion in its early stages is not wrong.  You are a man so you have NO IOTA OF AN IDEA what it is like to be pregnant.   No woman should be forced to endure an unwanted pregnancy, pure and simple.   All children should be loved and wanted. 
       
       If one does not want to continue the pregnancy, she should have an option to abort.    Unwanted children tend to be abused more by the mother than a wanted child.  We women will SEE that abortion SHALL NEVER be illegal again.   I am a Black, feminist, and staunchly pro-choice woman.  I am also a LIBERAL and proud of these components.

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          Marquisposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          It is wrong period. Me being a man has nothing with me knowing that it is wrong.

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             gmwilliamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

             There are SOME men who SUBCONSCIOUSLY want to control women's reproductive destinities and to penalize their sexuality.   Conservative thinking men have the bad and vicioius habit of attempting to curtail women's freedom to control their reproductive destiny.
             
             Women have the right of access regarding abortion and birth control technologies.   Marquis, please LIVE in the 21st and not the 12th century when women were stricly controlled by male authorities whether it was the church or in the domestic spheres.  Focus, focus.....focus.   Women TODAY have reproductive freedoms unheard before.    I, and other progreesive and thinking women, will CALL OUT ANYONE who OPPOSES a woman's reproductive right.

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                Marquisposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Wrong is wrong. It does not matter where you are in any century time frame. Doctors who help women commit abortion are nothing more than butchers.

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                   abt79posted 10 years agoin reply to this

                   Thank you marquis!
                   gmwilliams, who are you to say a child deserves to die just because you don't want him? pro-choice? bah! Pro-Hitler-esque-choice!

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13. 75

    jenniferrpoveyposted 11 years ago

    Black people can be racist too. I've met more than one very racist black person - sometimes out of paranoid self defense.
    
    Not all Conservatives are Republicans, either. I don't see Marquis saying he's a member of the Republican party...he could be aligned with one of the smaller right wing parties too.
    
    On the main topic:
    
    My stance on abortion boils down to this:
    
    Most pro lifers want to live in a world where the answer to "Can I have an abortion?" is always no.
    
    I want to live in a world where the question is never asked.
    
    That is to say: I am opposed to abortion except under two circumstances:
    1. If continuing with the pregnancy would significantly jeopardize the woman's life or physical/mental health (I include rape victims in "mental health" - some women who become pregnant from rape hate the pregnancy and the child, others refuse to blame the child for the father...it's a case by case thing).
    2. If the unborn child is not viable - in which case I don't see the point of going full term for nothing. Others may disagree, which is their choice, but...
    
    However. I believe abortion needs to remain legal because the ONLY result of criminalizing it would be a minor decrease in the number of abortions and a significant increase in the number of dead or infertile women after botched procedures. That's what the statistics show. Keep it legal - and then address WHY women choose to have abortions. If you pro life people really care about unborn babies, as opposed to seeing pregnancy as a punishment for having sex (sadly common) or wanting to restrict female sexuality, then how about:
    1. Giving some of your spare cash to go towards subsidized childcare for poor working women.
    2. Donating to charities that research genetic disorders and those that put money into coming up with less debilitating cancer treatments than chemotherapy.
    3. Supporting, instead of opposing, comprehensive sex education.
    4. Supporting, instead of opposing, the availability and further development of reliable contraceptives.
    5. Supporting self defense and rape prevention courses for women and rape prevention education for young men.
    
    You prevent abortions by preventing unwanted pregnancies. And it is simply not realistic to say "Keep your legs closed" then. Humans are simply not wired to have sex only for reproduction - the fact that our females no longer have heat cycles proves it.

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       abt79posted 10 years agoin reply to this

       "Humans are simply not wired to have sex only for reproduction"
       it is sad to me that you believe people have no self control. I have had self control for all of my life. Your doubt in humanity is not fully true, people can stay virgins. The problem is not "instinct", it is our culture of sexual immorality and ridiculousness.

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