Pitbull owners should be held to stricter standards

1. 82

   Whitney05posted 14 years ago

   How am I twisting facts, when they came from various reputable sources? When they are the latest facts and statistics? When all I'm doing is re-reporting to you what someone else has studied? When I'm not using wikipedia, random blogs, and old quotes from places who now say those stats were inaccurate?
   
   I see both sides, and accept that my dog is hated by so many people because she was born the wrong breed, as they'd like to think. Most of my hubs about the breed cover from non-biased standpoints when reporting that the breed can kill but did you know they were used to babysit young children back in the day? When reporting statistics of bites and such, I try to cover both points of view. I have written about bsl and given alternatives and statistics that show it doesn't work. I have written hubs on the background of dog fighting, as well as famous pit bulls who have served our country.

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      lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I have no idea who your "various reputable sources", have not seen anything from the CDC saying those stats are inaccurate (they still have the study up on their website), nor do I really care. If someone broke into my house, a loaded gun could quite possibly save my life. That certainly doesn't mean that I'm not terrified of a loaded gun or that I would leave my child alone with one.

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2. 82

   Whitney05posted 14 years ago

   The study is still posted yes, but they have retracted the study and claim that it is inaccurate due to false reports that were pulled to perform the study. I have the exact quote from their website (well that's not true I took out the filler info and left the basic quote, as HP said it was duplicate for quoted so much material from their site) on my hub below.
   
   http://hubpages.com/hub/CDC-Dog-Bite-Statistics
   
   The article I first saw came from: "Dog Bite Statistics: Science or Junk Science?" by Karen Delise from the American Pit Bull Terrier Gazette; Volume 33, Issue 1; Fall 2008
   
   You can discount the source bc it's from the ADBA's American Pit Bull Gazette magazine if you want to, but don't discount the quote from the CDC's website.
   
   Well, it actually is in terms of dog bites in regards to breed and how you can't do studies or predict which breed will have more bites, but I've also seen where they no longer use those statistics bc they were taken from various false media reports (mentioned in the hub).
   
   I agree that if a robber with a gun came into your home that you should be scared, but that doesn't mean you should be scared of every person with a gun. Just like you can't be scared of every Pit Bull or mix thereof. That's the only thing I'm trying to say. You can't vilify an entire breed bc you're scared and bc you're scared due to stereotypes that you've heard.
   
   You can't say most dogs are going to attack and be vicious, and you can't say most people get the breed for that purpose. Unless you have the exact or near to numbers to support that. 
   
   All dogs can attack no matter the breed, and there are so many dogs of various breeds that an owner may not know how to control. There are so many breeds that were once more feared than pitbulls and are now known as gentle and loving family dogs. It's just media portrayed and stereotypes that people can't seem to and don't want to get passed. In time, this breed will make a comeback and have the same reputation they used to have. Whether you or anyone else likes it or not, history shows it can happen and will happen. It's just a matter of time.

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      lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Actually, I would be afraid of anybody with a gun -- unless I knew that the gun owner was educated, trained, responsible and in control. Pretty much the same thing I'm saying about pitbulls.
      
      And again, putting words in my mouth... I never said that "most dogs are going to attack and be vicious". What I have said is that there are a lot of irresponsible or just plain bad owners of pitbulls out there. There are also just as many, if not more, good owners of great pitbulls. Those bad owners and their dogs are giving pits a bad reputation. When I run into someone with a pitbull, I don't know which kind of owner/dog they are, and it does make me afraid of them.
      
      I've spent years and years and years taking my dogs to dogparks. I have seen labs, shepherds, rottweilers, chihuahuas, spaniels, terriers, etc. whose owners are not in control of their dogs. But in my personal experience, it's the pitbulls who are out of control a disproportionate amount of time. (And don't get on my back about identifying the breed. All of the dog owners talk to each other, and the first question at the dog park usually is "What kind of dog is that?")

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3. 82

   Whitney05posted 14 years ago

   You're right you didn't say that most dogs are mean but that most people who want and get pit bulls want them to boost their ego and to train them to be mean. Again, can't say most, no one really knows that number.
   
   I'm talking about mix breeds. You can't look at a dog and 100% guarantee a dog's breed by looking at a mix unless you know the parents of the dogs.
   
   Rotties, shepherds, etc can be just as dangerous as a pit.
   
   Also, as for out of control... Is that your opinion of out of control being that the dog isn't 110% trained or that it plays rough or what? Bully breeds play rough, and where non-bully breed parents think they're trying to be aggressive, in most cases they're just playing. I've never known a pit to play without growling and rough-housing, and that doesn't mean they were aggressive or trying to start a fight.Maybe the dog was just being friend. When he came toward you was he snarling, barking, have his hair on end, ears pricked straight (even with cropped ears you can tell), or his tail strait out?
   
   As for the dog jumping on you or coming at you. Did you ever think that the dog just wanted to see you and that it never wanted to hurt you or your dog? That maybe the owner doesn't care that the dog jumps on him so he never trained it not to jump on people, so perhaps he just didn't know better.
   
   Out of curiousity if a chow came running up to you, would you still have posted this thread? A Great Dane? St. Bernard? All three of which have had their time in history as the most feared and dangerous breeds. And, if history fortells what will happen in the future, then it goes to say those dogs could harm you and your dogs as well.
   
   I really think your solution is to talk with the owners of these dogs and see what they've done to train their dogs without assuming their out of conrol and unruley beasts. (not saying that's what you think of have said. just making a comment on how you've said all pit bulls at the park are uncontrollable.)

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      lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I never said "most" people who get pitbulls do it to boost their ego. I said "some". Nor did I say that "all" pitbulls at the park are uncontrollable. You're trying to make your point by being a bully, and I'm not buying it.
      
      Playing rough is not an out-of-control dog. But if the dog is playing rough and the owner calls to it or gives it a command and the dog refuses to listen, then that dog is not 100% in control.
      
      Would I have been afraid if a Great Dane, Chow or St. Bernard came running at me in the same situation? No. When faced with a pitbull am I going to waste my time asking the owner if they are responsible. No.

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      1. 82

         Whitney05posted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I swear I saw it earlier but don't have the patience at the moment to find it. You did say that more and more people are getting the breed solely for that purpose though, that I did find and can quote for you, and again that's a stat that you can't prove even that alone.
         
         Why wouldn't you be afraid of the other breeds? They've had worse and similar reputations as the Pit Bull has now?
         
         Also, may I ask again:
         
         
         And what is your thoughts about talking to the owners of these so called uncontrollable dogs? Why won't you do that? If you're so worried about the dogs hurting another dog or person because they're running around, why not talk to them about training and such? Wouldn't that ease your fears?
         
         I'm really not trying to be mean or bully you, and I'm not even thinking what I'm typing with an attitude, so I'm sorry that you're taking it as such. I'm asking honest questions with an honest curiousity. I'm giving honest, truthful, and correct-to-date facts. I'm not belittling you, I'm not harassing you, and I'm not trying to make you feel stupid (not saying that you are).

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            lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            1. You won't find it, Whitney, because I didn't say it.
            2. I answered your question about the rough-housing. Read back. You seem to have a very selective (and creative) memory.
            3. I wouldn't waste my time talking with the pitbull owners about whether they are responsible owners or not because it's a waste of my time.
            4. Don't care what the pitbull running at me wanted. He could have been coming over to tell me I won the lotto. The simple fact is that I choose to stay away from pitbulls -- all of them. The owner should have respected that. Oh, that's right. He couldn't. His stupid dog was out of control and wouldn't listen to him for anything.

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            1. 82

               Whitney05posted 14 years agoin reply to this

               You could be the one being rude to me, not me to you. I wouldn't have made it up if I didn't read it. I read it somewhere but don't care to find it as I don't have the patience anymore. Believe what you will. I'm just trying to help the situation and ease your fears by giving you ideas to help so that you're not so biased and don't stereotype as much.
               
               I only ask why you wouldn't talk to them because it could help your fear and ease them. I only ask why the dog was running towards you because if it was in a friendly manner why restrict the breed just because it was a pitbull running at you versus any other powerful breed of dog or any other breed that has had the same bad reputation? If the dog wasn't being aggressive, then there isn't any reason to say the owner was being irresponsible or that the dog was uncontrollable by any means necessary. Uncontrollable is different than needs more training. The dog was probably just overly excited with too many distractions to listen as he may normally.
               
               Could be that you're the one that needs to grow up and open your eyes. You seem to be ignoring and refusing to listen to anything anyone says. If it proves you are not 100% right you're ignoring the comments.
               
               See ya. I'm done with this and with you.

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                  lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  There goes the creativity again. I never said you were being rude.
                  
                  
                  
                  Then shut up. Don't accuse me of things just because you're too lazy to do your research.
                  
                  
                  
                  Thank you, I will.
                  
                  
                  
                  You're not trying to help at all. You're just some kind of crazy fanatic trying to instill your beliefs on other people. I choose to disagree with you, and you come back with twisted words, made-up quotes and a whole bunch of snake oil. No freaking wonder pitbulls have such a bad rap.
                  
                  
                  
                  Here's a quote I've made before for ya: "It's a waste of my time." I have eased my fear very well all by my little lonesome. I choose to stay away from pitbulls. And when some irresponsible owner crosses that line, which happens all the time, I take offense.
                  
                  
                  
                  The owners I run into at the dog parks closely watch their dogs and stop that kind of behavior immediately. (Oh, did you forget the part where I was knocked over into a picnic table?? Where can I send you a polaroid of my bruises???) That pitbull owner and about 10 others that particular day had NO control.
                  
                  
                  
                  No. And THANK GOD!

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4. 62

   Mishaposted 14 years ago

   LOL You won't get anywhere ladies. Why don't you just agree to disagree?

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      lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Been trying to, Misha. Been trying to...

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   Mishaposted 14 years ago

   This is how you've been trying? Uh-oh...

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6. 67

   lrohnerposted 14 years ago

   Misha - I don't agree with you on this topic, but I actually admire your part in this long drawn-out thread. You made your point clearly and succinctly. We had fun debating. And then you let it go. Thanks.

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      Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      That's really looks much nicer to me. Enjoyed talking to you, too - and see you on other threads

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         lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Ditto. Mmmmmmmmmmmmwwwwwwwwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaah!

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7. 69

   Beth100posted 14 years ago

   Remember:  everyone has an entitlement to their own opinion.  We are not obligated to accept that opinion, but that doesn't mean we have to go to war.  Philosophical differences cannot be resolved...that's why the world has a history of war! 
   
   Debate nicely with some class!

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      lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Sorry, Beth. Just reached my threshold. Will not happen again. Promise.

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         Beth100posted 14 years agoin reply to this

         We all have our limits...I reached mine on another thread yesterday too!  lol 
         
         I think  you handled this one quiet nicely.  Looking forward to  crossing paths again in the Forum with you! 

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            lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Ditto Beth!

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8. 39

   getpaidtopostposted 14 years ago

   fed up with seeing this post now just agree to disagree.

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9. 61

   swifttaxiposted 14 years ago

   Owners should be trained and be given certification that they are allowed to handle pitbull. Then the authorities will look on this pitbull owners and they will be held liable for any occurrences.

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      ellie1142545posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      That's been happening in Nebraska, on all large dogs....They are citing the owners...Looking at them, and will even remove the dogs from the home, if there is more than one incident involving same dog....
      
      They broke up a dog-fighting ring, out of Minnisota (?)...One of the guys charged in the matter lives right here in Nebraska (Tecummsah).  He was released on bail yesterday, and a Federal Judge said he could keep his four Pittbulls (trained to fight).  A worker for the U.S. Animal Righs (U.S. S.P.C.A.), and Governor Office, of Investigation For Animal Cruelty, said differant, and seized the dogs....They are being checked over by a State Office Vet.  The good thing of this (Maybe) is that these dogs are young enough to be retrained....

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    Mishaposted 14 years ago

    he-he

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    lrohnerposted 14 years ago

    Listen....silence...

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       shibashakeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Great self-restraint. Kudos!

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12. 77

    jaymzposted 14 years ago

    Hope my pit bulls come running at you lrohner. They're well trained yet get excited at the dog park. Seems like you have no care in the world to even try to be friendly to pit bull owners, and I agree with Whitney that maybe the dog just didn't know better. At your age you'd think you'd be more open minded. Guess the older people get the more bitchy they get. Glad that you'd try to be friend with cane corsos', akita's, chows, and other breeds proven to be just as vicious. Most animal lovers would try to be friend with other animal lovers and try to see that maybe the perspective is wrong or skewed. People like you are the reason why breed bans are inacted. Your opinion of out  of control is ridiculous- a dog who isn't trained to be a puppet. Yea that's a joke.

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       tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Emotions always seem to run high around this topic!

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       ellie1142545posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       And I bet they're like the ones I owned, soft-hearted babies...Well treated, well trained Pittbulls, are just like all dogs that are well treated, well trained dogs...Not a mean bone in their bodies, and so friendly, that they'll want to kiss you to death, LOL!!  Mine were just like that....God Bless!

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          jaymzposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Yep. sure are. Best dogs you'll meet just overly excited at parks. Like most dogs.
          
          I agree with alexadry, stick with your good rep lab (which has been reported to have caused their own fatal attacks). I'll also agree that responsible owners don't stick to dog parks. Won't find my dogs there but not because of their breed or behaviors.
          
          Alexadry, she's just an old lady stuck in her ways. She doesn't want to try to get over her fears. She'll never try to see the best side. I haven't said much in this thread, but read the whole thing. Seems like she's been given a number of solutions, and says she'll never try any of them. That's sad. Don't make a complaint if you're not willing to try to correct it within yourself first.
          
          Difference between your iffiness to dachshunds and hers to Pit Bulls is that you were bit, she was pushed- not scratched or bitten just pushed.

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    lrohnerposted 14 years ago

    Misha, Shiba...listen... Still the sound of silence...

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       shibashakeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       You deserve some Nutella Croissants as well as the Wontons Now I'm hungry.

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    Mishaposted 14 years ago

    The sound of applause

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    Eternal Evolutionposted 14 years ago

    As a Pit Bull owner i would like to say that there are no bad dogs, only bad owners no matter what the breed. I do agree that most pit bull owners, and simply just dog owners in general don't train there dogs properly. considering one jumped and knocked you down and there were fights show that their dogs have not been properly socilized with other dogs or humans. Our Pit, Bowser does jump, but we are working on traning him to sit when he wants attention and not to jump. he's doing quite well and even when he does jump he is very gentle.

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    alexadryposted 14 years ago

    I own two Rottweilers which are quite just as negatively stereotyped as Pittbulls. I am an advocate for public awareness and educating people about what well trained dogs have the potential to be.
    
    I am not forcing my opinion and no intent to hurt anybody's feelings because I am very open to peaceful and constructive debates, but I think that people that find these breeds intimidating is because they really never got a shot at owning one or at least getting to know them very well.
    
    Its sort of like having a phobia,like aracnophobia, where one cannot be forced to ''like spiders'' but rather through desensitation they get to fear less the object of their fear through positive and gradual exposure. I therefore think that those fearful of Pitbulls should be exposed to Pitbull puppies and then gradually graduate to meeting well mannered specimens that stay composed without too much excitement.
    
    Yes,indeed, it is unfortunate that there are many people who know nothing about training and controlling dogs, but there are also people that now better and have made of Pitts and Rotties wonderful companions.
    
    If you are fearful of this breed, stay away from them, cross over the other side of the street, but please do not stereotype all Pitts to be mean (I know you are trying not to, but I still think that somewhere in the deep of your unconscious mind you do). This practice is just very unfair.
    
    Its like being racist against people from certain countries of being terrorists or people of a certain skin color to be criminals. Get the point? It hurts all us responsible dog owners that do our best to raise well tempered and well mannered dogs.
    
    I know people that were terrified of Rotties but just melt when they meet my two rotties which by the way, I no longer take to the dog park because I find so many mean uncontrollable dogs  and no they are not Pits, but your best friend Labs and Goldens...
    
    Just my 2 cents, peace eh?

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       Aya Katzposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Alexadry, well said!

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          ellie1142545posted 14 years agoin reply to this

          And I second that motion...Very well said...

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       lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Alexadry, I don't agree with you, but well thought out argument. Peace.

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    alexadryposted 14 years ago

    Please explain exactly what you do not agree with, I would like to help you and others that fear these dog breeds.
    
    ***Wanted to add that dog parks should be avoided all together by responsible dog owners. There is just too much chaos, too much out of control dogs and too many opportunities for a fight to happen. And this is not only because of Pit Bulls, or German Shepherds etc. It can be any dog. That's just nature. Getting lots of unsupervised dogs together is simply looking for trouble. I stopped taking all my dogs altogether. In my case, it was this dominant Lab that was trying to bully my dogs. It was horrible and I simply got overwhelmed.
    
    People that want to socialize their dogs should schedule play dates with well acquainted dogs and dog owners. This is a much safer approach so everybody is happy and dogs are well under control.

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       lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Alexadry, I think I'm just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. If you would like to take this topic (which has run much too long in this thread IMHO) offline, feel free to send me a direct message via my profile.
       
       Thanks!

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    alexadryposted 14 years ago

    Well, you posted the problem and many of us are trying to help, this is what forums are for ;0)
    
    I am guessing that you will keep firmly to your thoughts and that is fine.
    
    To tell the truth, I must confess I am quite cautious of Dachshunds because one bit me once as a child and not too long ago another bit my nephew. We know they are not generally too friendly with kids but we also know that in most cases, children tend to mishandle them and I still love them and forgave them (as you can see in my profile)
    
    Just please consider that Pitbulls when raised right, they are great dogs, some are even service animals, search and rescue and therapy dogs. There have been even Pitbulls that saved lives.
    
    
    At the dog park your are only seeing the ''bad'' side of pitbulls, those that have pent up energy, are under exercised and uncontrollable because they are so excited. Meet one in a calm state of mind and trust me, if you are a real dog fan and can open your heart, you will fall in love with it!
    
    http://www.pitbulllovers.com/pitbull-ar … heros.html

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    Mishaposted 14 years ago

    Jaymz, trying to insult the opponent usually does not help to get the point through.

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    Eternal Evolutionposted 14 years ago

    Just an update, we again took our pit bull Bowser to the dog park, there were many dogs and owners there. everyone loved Bowser and complemented on his sweet gental nature. it's all truly the owner and not the dog.

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