Is Horus Jesus?

1. 66

   maxoxam41posted 10 years ago

   Was born on Dec, 25th, born of a virgin, was accompanied by the star in the East, was adored by 3 kings and had 12 disciples he travelled with, performed miracles, was called lamb of god, was crucified, was dead for 3 days and resurrected.
   Does it remind you of someone else? Bingo. Jesus 3,000 years later. What a coincidence, isn't it?

   replyreport
   1. 60

      MelissaBarrettposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      I've heard this comparison a lot... and honestly I don't care one way or the other...
      
      But it always amused me to claim that Horus was born on the 25th of December. If you think about it, I'm sure you'll understand why.
      
      In addition, most Christians understand that Christ wasn't born on the 25th of December and that both Horus and Christ being "born" on that day has more to do with agriculture than anything else.

      replyreport
      1. 60

         janesixposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         The December 25th is just the winter solstice (21st solstice, thee days of the sun rising in the same place, when it starts rising in a new spot again on the 25th)
         
         I've heard the Horus born on Dec 25 thing too a lot, but since I've never actually seen an actual SOURCE for that, I don't think it's true.
         
         There are commonalities, but I think they are pretty vague.

         replyreport
         1. 60

            MelissaBarrettposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            There was no December 25th when Horus was born.

            replyreport
         2. 60

            MelissaBarrettposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            There was no December 25th when Horus was born. There would have been when Christ was born... but it would have been October.

            replyreport
            1. 60

               janesixposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               Didn't think of that:)
               
               Still, I think they put it at winter solstice specifically, probably to please the "pagans". Just like how the Christians built churches over sacred spots. So the pagans would be more inclined to follow the new religion.
               
               All religions do it though. Look at Jerusalem.

               replyreport
               1. 66

                  maxoxam41posted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  You know that it would refer to the constellations. Therefore there would be a 25th. Sagittarius is a constellation isn't it? How do you think we date our time? The Egyptians were much more knowledgeable in science that we are now!

                  replyreport
                  1. 60

                     janesixposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                     Sure, I know all about that. Quite a bit in fact. Astrotheology is a major factor in many religions.

                     replyreport
                  2. 89

                     wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                     Fascinating!  What did the ancient Egyptians know that we don't?  Beyond, that is, that giant tombs provide for the afterlife...

                     replyreport
                     1. 60

                        janesixposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                        Well they at least knew their astrononomy pretty well, thousands of years before anyone else.

                        replyreport
                        1. 89

                           wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                           Thousands of years before the builders of stonehenge?  Before the East Asians (and how do you know)?  Were they aware that the earth isn't the center, or just recording movements and assigning meanings that weren't there?
                           
                           That the Egyptians were among the most advanced of the period is indisputable.  That they knew more than anyone else on earth is probably false and that they knew more science in general than we do today, well, that's just silly.

                           replyreport
                           1. 60

                              janesixposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                              Well the ancient Turks may have known something about astronomy before the Egyptians. Once Gobekli Tepi is analized and fully uncovered, we will know more. That would be 12,000 years ago, but the jury is still out on that one.
                              
                              It's easier to guage what the Egyptians knew because they left so much behind. I tend to think the Builders of Stonehenge new at least some of what the Egyptians did, but there's nothing to indicate they knew more.
                              
                              I don't care if you think I'm silly. I know what I know.
                              
                              They probably didn't know quantum mechanics, but they new things that are just as important, if not more. Our science just measures things. Egyptian science has a different method of obtaining knowledge.
                              
                              Have you ever heard of Nabta Playa? Explain that one.

                              replyreport
                              1. 89

                                 wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                 Nabta Playa.  A large basin in the Nubian desert.  Has some rocks that MAY be a calendar, MAY have something to do with Orions belt, MAY have something to do with Sirius or MAY have something to do with the Milky Way.  No one knows why it is built, just as no one truly knows why stonehenge was built.  Apparently the best explanation anyone has - do you have something else?
                                 
                                 But "Egyptian science has a different method of obtaining knowledge".  Knowledge, or made up opinions without real connection to reality outside of a time correlation?  Egyptians were pretty smart (at least as smart as we are, IMO), but did not have thousands of years of learning under their belt that we do.  They knew things we don't (how to find water in the desert, maybe or how to make pyramids by hand), but not science.

                                 replyreport
                                 1. 60

                                    janesixposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                    I don't expect you to believe anything I say. I'm not going to try to prove anything to you . That would be futile and a waste of both of our time. If you want to know what I think, I'll tell you. But if you are only trying to prove me wrong, then I'm not interested.

                                    replyreport
                                    1. 89

                                       wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                       If you have no evidence to back what you think and it is only make believe opinion then no, I'm not real interested.  If you have something beyond an opinion based on what you would like to believe, I'm always interested in learning new knowledge.

                                       report
                                       1. 60

                                          janesixposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                          That's fine:)
                                          
                                          I've been keeping most of my religious stuff in Hubs lately anyway, and out of the forums. This particular one I couldn't seem to resist though.

                                          report
                                          1. 89

                                             wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                             Understand.  It's fun to wonder just what ancient people, particularly those that built a great civilization, knew and understood.  It's fun to speculate that they knew secrets long forgotten and that have remained undiscovered for millenia.  It's fun to turn myth and fables into reality, even when they aren't true and a few minutes thought tells us they aren't true.
                                             
                                             It's just not something that I'm interested in outside of idle "what if" speculation and pretending it could all be true.  Cemented too hard to the ground, I suppose.

                                             report
                                             1. 60

                                                janesixposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                                Nothing wrong with being cemented in rationality and logic.
                                                
                                                One of the reasons I always listen to you and respect your opinions.

                                                report
                                                1. 66

                                                   maxoxam41posted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                                   In what way denying the Egyptian superiority reflects rationality and logic? In what way someone who opposes Stonehenge to the builders of the Pyramids and Luxor uses reason and logic?
                                                   May I remind him that it started in -3000.

                                                   report
                                                   1. 89

                                                      wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                                      How do you "oppose" a bunch of rocks?  I'm not following you here.

                                                      report
                                                      1. 66

                                                         maxoxam41posted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                                         In what way blocks in circle show superiority?

                                                         report
                                             2. 66

                                                maxoxam41posted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                                Apparently you didn't read the introduction of the forum otherwise you would know the subject of the forum. Couldn't that your religion and all of them come from the Egyptians or is it impossible?

                                                report
                                                1. 89

                                                   wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                                   No, my religion did not come from Egyptians; it could not have as I have no religion.
                                                   
                                                   I don't think you can make a case for any of the Abrahamic religions coming out of ancient Egypt as Egypt was not a monotheistic culture.

                                                   report
                                                   1. 66

                                                      maxoxam41posted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                                      But Amon Ra was the God. I am still referring to the sun as the other religions that copied the Egyptians.

                                                      report
                           2. 66

                              maxoxam41posted 10 years agoin reply to this

                              Then why can't we build pyramids?
                              You dare refer to Stonehenge (cavemen in comparison to them).

                              replyreport
                              1. 89

                                 wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                 What makes you think we can't build a pyramid?  Because we aren't stupid enough to bankrupt our nation by doing so, like the Egyptians did?

                                 replyreport
                                 1. 66

                                    maxoxam41posted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                    What are you talking about? We are still scratching our heads as for the secret of their erection and you are talking about what exactly? Where do you get your pseudo knowledge? Just stick to what you are good at. What is it by the way?

                                    replyreport
                        2. 66

                           maxoxam41posted 10 years agoin reply to this

                           Not only astronomy, medicine, architecture (the pyramids that we never mastered but also mathematics, agriculture... It's not because you (wilderness) know nothing about them that anybody else doesn't.

                           replyreport
         3. 66

            maxoxam41posted 10 years agoin reply to this

            I also heard that Jesus was born the 25th. Why would one version be more objective than the other? It is written on Egyptian papyri.

            replyreport
            1. 60

               janesixposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               Do you have a link to a translation of that specific text? Because I would love to see it. Not much interests me more than this subject.

               replyreport
               1. 66

                  maxoxam41posted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  Then I advise you for starter Zeitgeist, the movie.

                  replyreport
                  1. 60

                     janesixposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                     I've seen it, although it's been a couple months.

                     replyreport
                  2. 69

                     JMcFarlandposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                     If you're getting your ideas from Zeitgeist, It has been condemned as poor scholarship from the academic community - both atheists and Christians alike have refuted the film and the concepts and interviewees in it.  It is not reliable. 
                     
                     There are a lot of mythicist ideas about Jesus.  Some are more credible than others.  Please don't use Zeitgeist as your source.  You will get ripped apart from people on both sides.
                     
                     http://atheistexperience.blogspot.com/2 … ponse.html
                     
                     http://conspiracies.skepticproject.com/ … /zeitgeist

                     replyreport
                     1. 66

                        maxoxam41posted 10 years agoin reply to this

                        When it makes sense I use it. Did you watch their movie? I don't see what does seem so outrageous? Can you give me an example? And who are those scholars that will eat me alive, the ones that belong to the unique thought?

                        replyreport
                        1. 69

                           JMcFarlandposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                           Yes, I saw the movie.  And it was full of poor scholarship and misinformation, as evidenced in the entire reviews that I linked in my original reply.  Using it at this point only makes people seem less credible as soon as people find out where you got your information from.
                           
                           I'm interested in the Jesus as myth and not real person - the mythicist movement.  But there is genuine scholarship on the issue from notable scholarships like Richard Carrier, etc.  There work is much more reliable, full of references and genuine scholarly thought.  Zeitgeist isn't. 
                           
                           Be skeptical of your sources.  Examine their claims.  Do it before you trot them out as your "evidence".

                           replyreport
                           1. 66

                              maxoxam41posted 10 years agoin reply to this

                              But this myth has a source. I always questioned myself on the ubiquity of Jesus and their alike, in fact on the idea of a Jesus if you like. How is it that all religions are so common whereas they developed differently in space and time? It is the solution to my existing problem. That Jesus was a person or myth wasn't the core of my problem but the similitudes surrounding his character were.
                              It gave me a rational interpretation as for the existence of anybody's god and their so-called judeo-Christian ramification.
                              Ancient Egypt is the source of all religions and not Judea (another Zionist view, I guess).

                              replyreport
            2. 89

               wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               Dec. 25 is a calculated date.  The Christian historian Sextus Africanus calculated the date of His death as being March 25, and everyone knows that ancient prophets all died on the anniversary of either their birth or conception, one or the other.  Sextus decided the March date was the conception, so 9 months after that is the date of birth, Dec. 25.
               
               Besides, it matched pretty closely with Saturnalia and the solstice, giving those nasty pagans a Christian holiday the same time should they convert.  The early church learned this trick from the Romans, who were masters at it.

               replyreport
               1. 66

                  maxoxam41posted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  Everyone knows? You mean Christians and all religious people? Same indoctrination but different heroes.

                  replyreport
                  1. 89

                     wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                     A little tongue in cheek there; that was "common knowledge" at the time.  Sorry you didn't get the sarcasm.

                     replyreport
2. 66

   maxoxam41posted 10 years ago

   It only means that Jesus is a creation adapted from an Egyptian creation, Horus. Furthermore, Horus was the anthropomorphism of the sun. The 25th of December is the rebirth of the sun in the northern hemisphere after three days of let's say stagnation spring is coming days are getting longer...
   We always believed that the source of christianism was Judaism thus the alliance judeo-christianism whereas it is scientifically proven that its source is Egyptian.
   I know the Zionists are disappointed.

   replyreport
   1. 60

      MelissaBarrettposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      If you say so. *shrugs*

      replyreport
      1. 66

         maxoxam41posted 10 years agoin reply to this

         I wished I were the source but I am not.

         replyreport
         1. 60

            Paul Wingertposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            There's many "saviors" with stories similar to life of Jesus. Each contain a virgin birth, death, and resurrection. The list includes Buddha, Krishna, Odysseus, Romulus, Dionysus, Heracles, Glycon, Zoroaster, Attis of Phrygia, and Horus. “Many gods besides Christ have been supposed to die, be resurrected and ascend to heaven. This idea has now been traced back to its origin among primitive people in the annual death and resurrection of crops and plant life generally. According to the advocates of the solar myth theory, the ancient crucified saviors were personifications of the sun, and their life-stories were allegories of the sun’s passage through the 12 constellations of the Zodiac.”
            http://atlantablackstar.com/2014/02/03/ … e-bible/8/

            replyreport
            1. 66

               maxoxam41posted 10 years agoin reply to this

               And, again, which one is the oldest? Ancient Egypt. Therefore it seems logic, that the laurels belong to Ancient Egypt. The cradle of religions is Ancient Egypt.
               In fact, unconsciously, human beings are venerating the sun and not Jesus or anybody else. In that sense, how far are they from paganism?

               replyreport
         2. 60

            Paul Wingertposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            Other saviors with stories similar to life of Jesus, which contain a virgin birth, death, and resurrection, include Buddha, Krishna, Odysseus, Romulus, Dionysus, Heracles, Glycon, Zoroaster, Attis of Phrygia, and Horus.
            “Many gods besides Christ have been supposed to die, be resurrected and ascend to heaven. This idea has now been traced back to its origin among primitive people in the annual death and resurrection of crops and plant life generally. According to the advocates of the solar myth theory, the ancient crucified saviors were personifications of the sun, and their life-stories were allegories of the sun’s passage through the 12 constellations of the Zodiac.”
            http://atlantablackstar.com/2014/02/03/ … ide-bible/

            replyreport
3. 60

   janesixposted 10 years ago

   The story of Horus is about the rising/setting/rising of Orion. The Egyptian calendar is based on this (new year is the first rising of Sirius(isis) after 70 days of "slumber" (being below the horizon. It coincides generally with the yearly rising of the Nile(in July I think). Thus the importance. This is the Birth of Orion. Dips back below the horizon for a few months(Death of Orion)
   
   Virgo(the virgin) rises right before Orion and Sirius on December 25th. Thus, the rebirth of "osiris'(orion) as Horus.
   
   Continuous cycle of rebirth and death

   replyreport
4. 60

   janesixposted 10 years ago

   Also, Virgo(the Virgin) is opposite of Pisces (the fish) What is Jesus sign? The fish.

   replyreport
5. 60

   janesixposted 10 years ago

   Who are the "four living creatures" in Ezekiel's vision? The four fixed signs of the zodiac. The man(Aquarius) the lion(Leo) the Bull/Ox(Taurus) the Eagle( scorpio, also known as the Eagle)

   replyreport
   1. 60

      janesixposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      "Wheels within wheels" Time cycles within time cycles. The Precession reflects the Year, the day, etc.

      replyreport