Multiple Enemies of the US Citizen.

1. 69

   Don Fairchildposted 8 years ago

   The U.S. Government -- The Top 1000 Corporations -- The Socialists -- The Extremist elements on all sides are all out to take control of the United States of America. 
   The extremely distressful aspect of this situation is that the average citizen doesn't realize from which direction the bullets are coming from!
   The current Presidential proceedings have brought forth a very enlightening new development in the Presidential process.  We are on the edge of a President that at the least would be a totally independent President.  This happened only once when Millard Fillmore took office as a member of the Wig party, but he wasn't elected into office as he filled the office of Zackary Tailor.  The only elected independent president might only have been George Washington. So this has never really happened before in United States history therein lies our 21st century problem.
   When you consider that the elections are really controlled by big interests and outside influence with huge amounts of money, it is no wonder that the GOP and Democrats are fit to be tied over the Trump problem.  Nobody can buy him off can they.  The GOP is really angry that they can't place their favorite boys in the leadership, because the money barons will take of the heads of the GOP management..... 
   The Democrats are likewise in a terrible predicament similar in nature to the problems on the GOP side, they are far and wide from finding a majority of the voters who are willing to vote for a liar/criminal/elite or a self proclaimed socialist.  Even all the undocumented voters could push the popular vote over the Democrat edge this time.
   Lets look at the money influence groups that are getting really angry at their perceived loss of control over the citizen populace.
   The banks are still angry with being forced to give out free mortgages to obvious credit risks. The bank bailout was the democrats way of saying "sorry" at our expense. 
   The Health Care debacle devised at the hand of Clinton/Pelosi then forward lateral to the Obama administration, much like tossing a hand grenade to Obama, then praised for his expert catch.
   Foreign governments are not too happy either, they see their cash cows disappearing once a president enters office that can't be bought.  China, Russia, Saudi's, and others are starting to behave rather badly lately, why -- why indeed, if they can't get our money then they make trouble for us.
   The extremist keep us confused with orchestrated confusion that is specifically geared to pit you and I against each other.  They keep the level of contention between us so that we are unable to act responsibly to allow us to run a government as it should be operated without devious destruction of our infrastructure.
   The Socialists and Progressive want to control you and your money and they will use bogus legislation and court intervention in order to take that control out of your hands. This control is most insidious because no one notices the changes until it is too late.  It doesn't take a village, only free clear minded individual who can reach a majority decision under any circumstance.
   
   So be prepared for a really rough ride like we have never seen before, and let us hope that sanity prevails.
   
   "United We Stand, Divided We Fall"  Aesop; 6th century BC
   "My sons, if you are of one mind, and unite to assist each other, you will be as this bundle, uninjured by all the attempts of your enemies; but if you are divided among yourselves, you will be broken as easily as these sticks."
   
   

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      Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I agree with this statement, but I don't think America is ready yet to stand united. As evidenced by the candidates garnering support.
      
      Trump, an obvious divider, an individual who pushes the negative at every turn in order to find supporters, is not a unifier, yet he is at the front of the Republican field.
      
      Clinton, whose myriad baggage is there for all to see, is the front runner of her party.
      
      Both, with negative approval ratings in any poll I've looked at. There is no unity there. Just the chance to ensure our nation becomes that much more divided.
      
      Until we, as a people, stop looking at each other with distrust and we start to listen to each other; until we are willing to find the common threads that bind us and push for those; allowing for the fact that the issues which divide us should be studied to determine why they do and we find compromise among ourselves on these; our political system will continue to be a mirror image of what is broken in all of us.
      
      We are the problem in America today. We need to stop looking to Washington to fix it and begin the healing process among ourselves.

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      1. 69

         Don Fairchildposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         The only reason that Clinton is a front runner is because they control the Democrat election process.  Isn't it strange that there is only one opposition running against her? When the debate rules stated that there had to be three candidates to attend the debates, they went out into the street and grabbed an unknown person to stand in front of the cameras for a couple of hours, so where is he now?
         There is nothing Democratic about the Democrat party anymore, there was a time when the Democrats actually did govern the country for the average middle class person, but those days are Long Gone!

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            Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

            So, where did you come from? Welcome to the salt mines...
            
            You said
            
            "There is nothing Democratic about the Democrat party anymore, there was a time when the Democrats actually did govern the country for the average middle class person, but those days are long gone!
            
            Conservatives always say the Democrats 'lost me' during the time of the Kennedy administration. So what have the GOP become? A bunch of bible banging, fascist hypocrites and while people complain about Democrats dismissing and taking the middle class for granted, the GOP's mission is to destroy it in its entirety as shown in every reflex and policy position it takes.
            
            I don't disguise the fact that I don't like conservatives nor their politics, and I am honest about it.
            
            So if the Democrats are bad, the Republicans are worse!!!!

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               Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this

               Sadly, I'll have to agree with your assessment of most candidates in the Republican party who appear to garner support. I've always been a fiscal conservative but the Republican party has gone so off message from what pulled me to them years ago that I am at a loss of how to proceed.

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                  Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  Generally, there is nothing wrong with a fiscal conservative view. It is just that what 'conservatism' as reflected by the GOP and its intellectual base is is anything but moderate.
                  
                  We are going to have a stark choice this year, I have not given up on the possibility of Sanders as the Democratic nominee.
                  
                  I can't afford to sit it out and complain about the outcome, I would just kick myself.

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                     wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                     "I have not given up on the possibility of Sanders as the Democratic nominee."
                     
                     You might as well accept it as a done deal.  The real rulers - the VIP's of the party - have bought their candidate and what the people want is irrelevant.

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                        Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                        "You might as well accept it as a done deal"
                        
                        Well, Wilderness, I don't and I haven't. An undemocratic process will produce pandemonium at the nomination convention. We will see....

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                           wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                           I think we've already seen that "undemocratic process" at work, and there was no pandemonium, just business as usual.  Nor do I see it happening at the convention any more than at the polls.  It is our system of political power in operation, that's all.
                           
                           My prediction is Clinton vs Trump.  I take it you don't care for Clinton either, and will have the unenviable task of choosing the least of two evils (not uncommon )?  Will you choose based solely on the "D" in front of her name or will you try and get beneath the election rhetoric of Trump and understand what he might actually do (instead of building a wall, LOL).
                           
                           You've made it plain that that magical "D" is the only thing that matters - is that true or just more rhetoric?  For while Trump carries the devils sign in that "R", he hasn't earned it and the party very much wishes he would disappear into the sunset.

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                              Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                              It is not over 'until the fat lady sings'.
                              
                              No, Hillary Clinton is not my first choice. I am disturbed enough with what lies behind the election rhetoric of Trump to see Clinton as the lesser of two evils. It is what he might do that is the source of my concern.
                              
                              A liberal and progressive agenda is what matters, the party that promotes that gets my vote every time, with rare exception. With the current state of the GOP, all those that are part of it wears the scarlet "R" of the devil.

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                                 wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                                 Kind of what I said, isn't it?  "A liberal and progressive agenda is what matters" and  "the party that promotes that gets my vote every time" meaning that magical "D" without regard to the person involved. The party gets the vote, not the person. And anyone with an "R" is a demon, regardless of the person.
                                 
                                 Yeah, it's called "obstructionist" at the grass roots, citizen, level.  Same thing as been happening in legislatures all over the country for more than a decade.

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                                    Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                                    We all have are preferences, you included right?  We do not always get we want, right? We have to compromise, no more than you accept an Obama, Clinton or any other left leaning democrat. The "Person" is affiliated with a set of values. You all go for Trump because he is basically right wing at the core, so the fact that he is populist and 'supposidly' out of the control of the elites gives you no cause to fear that he could 'fly off the handle" in the wrong directlon.
                                    
                                    For rightwing conservative types Trump is a good risk, for us Sanders fits the bill.
                                    
                                    Sanders' is my idea of safe  populism,  unleashed. But I bet that you would vote for Bush, GOP party insider, over Sanders..... So how committed really are you in breaking up 'party politics'?

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                                    1. 90

                                       wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                                       You're right that we all have preferences, but that's about it.
                                       
                                       I don't like Trump because he's listed as Republican: I would vote for him (right now, today) because I find Clinton to be detestable.  Because Trump is not Republican, but more Independent in actions.  Because I agree with at least some of his thoughts (although grossly exaggerated much of the time).  Because he seems far more honest than Clinton (and that's important to me).  Because he isn't politically correct and doesn't care to be.  And more of the same.
                                       
                                       Clinton, on the other hand, seems to me (again at this point in time) to be little more than Politician with a capital P.  She is a liar, she has no respect for the law and puts herself above it.  She assumes no responsibility for doing her job and doesn't hesitate to blame others for her failures.  She is a disgusting example of what is wrong in Washington.
                                       
                                       Nowhere in that list will you find that I would vote for him because he has an "R" or because he follows Republican doctrine or is basically right wing (he's not).  Or that I wouldn't vote Clinton because she's a Democrat.  And were the choice Bernie rather than Clinton I might change that vote (depending on what is said between now and elections), but Clinton absolutely disgusts me, and it's not from her Democratic affiliation.  So no, I don't vote "party lines" as you do, and do vote for Democrats on occasion when I feel I can trust them to do what they say (seldom, but that's true of members of either party) and I like what I hear.
                                       
                                       If it's a coin flip, maybe a local election for school board member and I don't know any of them, I'll usually choose Republican.  But that's not the case here - the office of President isn't a school board and deserves a lot more of my attention and care.

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                                       Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                                       So, Wilderness, when was the last time you voted for a Democrat for President, when you trusted them to do what they say and you like what you heard?
                                       
                                       So in a coin flip, I usually choose Democrat as having platforms and values most attractive to me.

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                                          wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                                          I liked Jimmy Carter and voted Perot as well.  Seems like there have been others way back, but not sure.  You?  Which Republicans did you throw your vote behind?
                                          
                                          The coin flip makes sense to me: there are lots of small local elections that I haven't a clue abut who is who.  A paragraph in the newspaper or something is all we get.  Although I will say that I have on occasion voted democrat in this just because my state is so heavily Republican and I do think diversity is important.

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                                       Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                                       Did you vote for Jimmy Carter, or do I have to go back to FDR(chuckle)?
                                       Perot was independent and does not count. Were you too young to vote for "landslide Lyndon" in 1964? Yes, I admit that I have never voted GOP as my issues with them have been quite consistent over many years. A relatively moderate to progressive might attract my attention, but I just as well be looking for a six legged cow. 
                                       
                                       It certainly is not a 'coin flip' for Idaho and her residents. They know that they are staunch GOP, almost as bad as their Utah neighbors to the South.

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                                          GA Andersonposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                                          ...but I just as well be looking for a six legged cow. 
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                          Maybe you aren't looking hard enough. ;-)
                                          
                                          GA

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                                             jonnycomelatelyposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                                             Maybe a cash cow would be one used to standing on her own 4 feet, but without backing....i.e., someone pushing her up the a.....!

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                                       2. 90

                                          wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                                          No, LBJ was before my time.  But at least Perot wasn't a Republican - I was getting disillusioned even then.
                                          
                                          Yes, overall the R's have been more my cup of tea, but never to the point I was "locked in" to them to the point that no D could ever be acceptable.  The last few years, though, have seen both parties moving away from center, and the R's so far that I can no longer support them.  Were there a moderate liberal as an opponent - someone that cared more for the long term survival of the country than for immediate political gains or satisfaction - they would most definitely be on my radar.  But there isn't.

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            2. 90

               wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

               "So if the Democrats are bad, the Republicans are worse!!!!"
               
               it's hard to say one is worse than the other when either one will destroy the country.  Democrats with the socialist economics of impoverishing what's left of the middle class or Republicans with the insistence that religious freedom means the freedom to become Christian.  Either one will destroy what made American great, and will change the country beyond what is recognizable.  And both will lead to the downfall of a once great country.
               
               Both have good points.  Democrats value personal freedom more, except in matters of money, and Republicans are generally superior  in using our constitution as a ruling document, except in matters conflicting with their religion, instead of trying to weasel around it.  But in the end, both will destroy the country if allowed free rein.  Moderation is not a part of either side.

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                  Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  We know we will always fundamental disagree as to the role of government as to its extent and direction in which we want to go.
                  
                  Over how many of the past decades have those afraid of change talk about threats that the end of the 'American way of life" and the downfall of a great country? We simply acknowledge the need for changes, implement them, and guess what, we are all still here. It depends on what you think makes America great, we will probably differ on that observation as well.
                  
                  A large and prosperous middle class has been a pillar of the successful American experiment.

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            3. 69

               Don Fairchildposted 8 years agoin reply to this

               You are missing my point entirely, I am speaking as a generic citizen about the problems that we face as citizens.  I mentioned that we (citizens) are under fire from all directions including Republicans, Democrats, Socialists, Capitalists etc. 
               They are pitting us against each other to bring about chaos in order win their own cause, which may be money, power whatever.  Regardless, they are not interested in your collective well being but only interested their own needs.
               How many times have you seen a political group who is in opposition of the overriding opinion (majority) of the civil population. Doesn't it seem odd that GOP is unhappy with a very popular candidate couched in the idea that he can't beat the opposition?   Or isn't it strange that in recent history the popular vote won a majority in a presidential race, but it was tossed out in favor of electoral college.  Or why is there only two candidates to choose from on the Democrat side,  How about why the Dems give billions of dollars to Banks, Car dealerships and numerous foreign countries?
               
               So quit your bitching about what your neighbor thinks about politics and stick together with them before the bad guys goad you into a fight where the antagonizer (third party) is the winner.

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                  Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  Ok, Don, lets dissect your dialogue a bit, shall we? You seem to imply that Donald Trump is this 'new development' on the Presidential scene, one who can be totally independent, really?
                  
                  Trump is identifying himself as a Republican, an extremist element by definition already. If he was to be so 'independent' why not take the 3rd party route?
                  
                  You come off as a conservative-rightwing type with and 'everyman' shtick to give the impression that you are above the fray.
                  
                  The reality is that we differ as to what and how a responsible government should be run.
                  
                  Trump is just another plutocrat promoting the extremist agenda of the political right and its supporters. Despite what he says, he is not powerful enough to move mountains in Washington just because he had his television show.
                  
                  So, again, I ask you, who is 'they'?
                  
                  The problem is political groups who are in opposition of the overiding public opinion that use their money to corrupt our politicians. Guess which of the extremist sides have proven more resistant to reform this basic flaw?
                  
                  The GOP is concerned about having a candidate that does well among Republicans but may not do so well among the general electorate next fall. If I were them, I would be concerned as well.
                  
                  I have problems with the electoral college, this has not been a running problem as you can count on your hand the number of presidential contests where the popular vote winner loses the presidency to the electoral college.
                  
                  I do not 'bitch' but give my opinion based on what I see, and I have been around long enough to recognize a 'red herring' when I see one.

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                  1. 69

                     Don Fairchildposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                     Democracy in its purest form is that the Majority of the population's opinion is regarded as the dominating ruling opinion.  Previous opponents of this majority used to always bend to the majority opinion in the effort of standing united for the sake of the entire populace. (At least prior to the current trend that majority opinion doesn't count) Remember when a defeated politician would always tell his followers to support the new majority elected official, when was the last time you saw that happening?
                     
                     It is tiring to watch a constant keyhole of people being forced into either a left or right opinion.  I am neither left, right or otherwise.  But I do respect the majority opinion how ever it turns out.  That way I know that for the most part I am part of a group that has the correct ideals at least for that moment in time.  I also disdain the tactics used by extremist groups that try to kill a majority only to bring chaos into our otherwise well running society.

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                        wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                        To a point you are correct.  Our system, however, has definite protections built into it for the minority, so that the majority doesn't just run roughshod over the rights of that minority. 
                        
                        And that is as it should be.  "Pure" democracy is unworkable as a governing system as it inevitably results in gross oppression of any differences from the majority opinions or desires.

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                        Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                        John McCain gave a very good concession speech in regard to Barack Obama's victory in 2008.
                        
                        Wilderness is right about Democracy being tempered with the rule of law and fundemental rights as rules of the game that protect minority interests.
                        
                        Then you are a rare species who do not have any preferences as to what in your mind composes a well run society outside of the wishes as reflected in the vote of the majority? What are those ideals, that you consider to be correct?

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         2. 79

            colorfuloneposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            I agree with...Democracy has escaped the Democratic party long ago, the fix is in, has been for ages.  But, the GOP has drastically changed into something nearly unrecognizable too.  Money and power corrupts. 
            
            Trump has won the GOP nomination but the establishment doesn't want Trump, because he will further expose them too.   The GOP establishment is befuddled and frustrated together with the Dems.

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            1. 71

               rhamsonposted 8 years agoin reply to this

               +1

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            2. 80

               Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

               Looks like both of our sides have similar problems...

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                  colorfuloneposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  Donald said he'd like to punch some guy in the face who was protesting at his NV event. The man was hitting Trump supporters in the face. He said we can't do that anymore and that they use to have to carrying people out (not him) ... I'm not sure how long ago that was happening at events. But, I thought it was interesting.  Maybe people have evolved  Maybe some are backsliding?

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            3. 69

               Don Fairchildposted 8 years agoin reply to this

               The parties have changed for the worse.  The big money rulers are used to buying out both parties with tons of money. They currently own the top Dem and GOP leaders with huge payouts of influence.
               So now here comes a rich guy who will not take bribe money and lo and behold the big money types are really pissed off that they can't buy influence on a very popular opponent.  Why do you think there is so much infighting within the GOP over a favorite candidate?  The big money that usually runs the GOP their way, are now stifled.
               Big money on the Dem side also wants to control, but their choices are dismal at best.  So the net effect is that the popular grass roots (Majority) opinion is winning out over the big money influence. Hoooray....

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               1. 79

                  colorfuloneposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  That is an accurate assessment, I believe. 
                  
                  I shouldn't be stunned at what Sen. Lindsey Graham said, “If you killed Ted Cruz on the floor of the Senate, and the trial was in the Senate, no one would convict you.”
                  
                  A moment of honestly and clarity of how it works with the big boys.

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                  wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  I don't know about being stifled - I don't think we've seen the end of GAP machinations to get Trump out of the running.  We even hear mutterings of the GOP producing a third candidate if Trump wins the nomination.
                  
                  So it's far from over, I think.  Trump is no more beholden to the GOP party than he is to the Democrat party, and that's a problem for the GOP.  They don't want him, and will do what they can (probably to the point of electing Clinton) to keep him out of office.

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                     Don Fairchildposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                     Totally agree here, and having a third or even forth candidate running in the independent spot is really scary.  And I don't mean Trump in the independent spot, I am worried that either Romney or Blumeburg or both running independent could really change the dynamics in a terrible way.  Lets hope not. But I wouldn't put it past the GOP money guys to fund an independent trick just to slap Trump in the face.

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               3. 79

                  colorfuloneposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  I feel the same excitement...Hooray!    I've gotten over my skepticism. Trump says things I don't always agree with, (but who am I).  However, Trump says what needs to be said and doesn't have time for the politically correct nonsense (neither do I). 
                  
                  Trump has said he will unify the Republican party. If that isn't an olive branch, I don't know what it is.  The GOP's heads have to be about spinning into orbit over that deal.  We'll see if they sold their souls.  It has to be scary for those who meet in secret chambers.

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      rhamsonposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      It is funny how you discredit the Democratic Socialist with a great deal of support from those who only on average contribute $27.00. Then you call for a united we stand conclusion.

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         Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

         I think that is pretty impressive. The only candidate that is supported by the people as reflected in numerous smaller campaign contributions rather than by Party machines, or the pompous self-promoting of a single individual.
         
         That is democracy at its best....

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2. 79

   colorfuloneposted 8 years ago

   That is a great post, and well written.  People of common sense are uniting and Trump will be a common sense president.  He has evolved!   
    
   

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3. 69

   Don Fairchildposted 8 years ago

   Thanks for your thoughts, stay united.

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