LetterPile Reorganization

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   Christy Kirwanposted 6 years ago

   Heads up! We’re doing a bit of rearranging on the LetterPile Network Site and we wanted to let authors know what’s going on.
   
   Going forward, we are transitioning LetterPile into a site that will exclusively contain creative writing. Until now we’ve tried to make the site a home for both informative articles on writing and literature as well as original works, but those two types of content require different standards and we wanted to give creative writing the chance to stand on its own.
   
   What this means for authors:
   
   If you have articles on LetterPile, they may be moved to a different site, or into a different category, over the next few weeks as we reorganize. It’s nothing to worry about and it doesn’t mean anything is wrong.
   
   When you submit articles, be aware that only original creative pieces will be accepted on LetterPile. Don’t worry, though, if you accidentally submit an article to the wrong site. Editors will get it where it needs to go. Let us know if you have any questions and happy Hubbing!

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      clivewilliamsposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      Where will you throw the poems?

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         Christy Kirwanposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         Original poetry will be staying on LetterPile.

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            clivewilliamsposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            Yipee!

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            threekeysposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            That's great news, Christy. It will be interesting to see how things will move along.

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            kenneth averyposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            Christy,
            Thanks so much. I have been away for almost two weeks due to a virus on my laptop, etc. Thanks for the information--especially the info about the poems.

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      paradigmsearchposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      Every creative writing piece I've ever written has been a miserable traffic failure no matter where it's been posted. I've tried single entries. I've tried groups. The stuff isn't cr@p either. I can send you a link to a current group of 10 if you wish, drop me a note if you would like for me to do that. If LetterPile ever does become a success, please brag about it long and loud. I've got around 50 flash fiction I could contribute.

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         lobobrandonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         Why don't you contribute then? It may help bring in the traffic. I doubt this site would get a lot of search traffic, but with some great content there could be repeat visitors.

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            paradigmsearchposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            Based on my current opinion of the prospects, it would be a waste of time. I'd rather spend that time on projects that I believe have greater potential.

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         Marisa Wrightposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         The only place creative writing gets traffic is if it's on a creative writing site.  So this new move might work.

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            paradigmsearchposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            Based on my own experience; you are absolutely, totally, unequivocably right.
            
            I hope so. It's the only option left.
            
            Side note. Yep, I know dictionaries hate the word, "unequivocably". That's their problem, not mine.

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               DzyMsLizzyposted 6 years agoin reply to this

               Then how about "indubitably?" 

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                  paradigmsearchposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                  Works for me.

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      chef-de-jourposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      I welcome the move in principle, I'm all for creative writing and sincerely hope everyone is successful.
      From a personal standpoint, I'm a bit nervous about the consequences of moving established articles to another site - I've invested much time and effort over the last few months in Letterpile - wouldn't want to lose many dedicated readers overnight.

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         Christy Kirwanposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         We've never seen more than minor fluctuations with moving articles between sites, so we don't anticipate an issue.

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            kenneth averyposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            Nov. 10, 2017
            Dear Christy -- I want you to explain to me what this Reorganization in Letterpile means. Thanks so much.

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               Glenn Stokposted 6 years agoin reply to this

               Kenneth, LetterPile is now a site only for creative writing. Everything else, such as informative and educational articles on writing, is being moved to other niche sites that fit better with their respective subjects.

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                  kenneth averyposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                  @Glenn -- well alright then. Thank you.

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         Marisa Wrightposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         Who are your "dedicated readers"?   If they are Hubbers who follow you, then the transfer to another HubPages niche site won't make any difference.

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            chef-de-jourposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            Dedicated readers - well, I guess the majority are students studying for exams and on degree courses - via Google mostly - organic traffic - over the last six months or so the numbers have grown and grown. I've worked hard to produce many in-depth hubs. If there are minor fluctuations as Christy points out above, who knows what the outcomes will be?

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      Terrielynn1posted 6 years agoin reply to this

      Thats great news. I have been working to get my work on there. I now have one that has been moved. Thank you.

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      TessSchlesingerposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      That is wonderful. Always wanted Hubpages to do that.

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      RJ Schwartzposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      Letterpile's poetry page is mostly populated with "analysis" of poetry - I'd like to see more original works on the main page instead of what amounts to reviews of the classics.

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         lobobrandonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         I think the homepage articles are traffic based. At least that's what it seems like from the other niche sites.

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            cam8510posted 6 years agoin reply to this

            That is fine by me. Put on the front page what will bring people in. But when they get inside, the place should be organized so that they can go directly to their area of interest. If all they see is a pile of creative writing to sort through, they will leave and go to the nearest online magazine that has what they want. Organize by form and genre. Think bookstore or library experience. We want SE traffic to come in and stay a while.

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   Jodahposted 6 years ago

   This is great news, Christy. I always felt that original Creative Writing should have always had a place to stand on its own and now it will. I'll be submitting more of my hubs to LetterPile now.

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      clivewilliamsposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      Yes John

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   Glenn Stokposted 6 years ago

   Christy, I have instructional hubs on Letterpile, such as how to format and self-publish a book, and another about using Flipboard. Where would these types of hubs go?

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      Christy Kirwanposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      These will most likely be transferred to ToughNickel, where all the commercial writing & publishing content is being moved.

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         Glenn Stokposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         ToughNickel definitely is a better place for informative hubs of those types. Thanks Christy. I look forward to the move when it happens. And what's left as creative writing should rank better once Google notices that focus of Letterpile.

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         chef-de-jourposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         I'm all for creative writing having its own space. But would it be better if a brand new niche site was set up for creative writing? I come at this from a purely selfish angle - I've shared great success with HP on Letterpile and wouldn't want things to crash all of a sudden! Or is my panic unwarranted?

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   shanmarieposted 6 years ago

   That is good news. Does this give creative works a chance to score higher hub scores? If we have to keep those things around, it would be nice. I consistently notice that my poetry and fiction is lower than other work.

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      Christy Kirwanposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      Creative writing is already scored on a different scale from informative writing. You can see the scale we use for creative works here: https://hubpages.com/help/hub_hop_table#creative

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         cam8510posted 6 years agoin reply to this

         Christy, I’m happy to hear about this action HP is taking. I also appreciate you sharing the chart you use to evaluate creative writing on the site. Could you elaborate on the staff’s expectations for this move? More information would certainly be welcome

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         TessSchlesingerposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         Right. I'll just stick to writing books then. When I see a list like that, I run the other way. It"s what they use for literary writing at universities, and it does not have much in common with successful commercial fiction. And there I was - excited for five minutes.

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            cam8510posted 6 years agoin reply to this

            Tess, I have to disagree here, and I do so respectfully. As you have, I've also looked at the criteria HP uses to evaluate creative writing. I don't see that it caters to literary fiction. It favors well-written works of fiction. Like you, I write popular/commercial fiction, and HP doesn't seem to have a problem promoting my work to LetterPile. If a writer's hubs aren't being moved to LetterPile, it isn't because HP favors literary over commercial fiction but because that person's writing is not high quality.

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               TessSchlesingerposted 6 years agoin reply to this

               "Message is fully developed with complementary tone, noteworthy diction or visual techniques, and abundant detail
               Engaging; uses literary techniques in a creative and appropriate way (e.g. alliteration, metaphor, word play, irony, puns)"
               
               This is literary fiction - not commerical fiction.
               
               Literary fiction is a style. Ugh. I loathe it. Commercial fiction does not use 'abundant detail.'  It does not use 'word play.'
               It is about story, plot. Read James Patterson. Or Danielle Steel.

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                  cam8510posted 6 years agoin reply to this

                  I know fiction well, so I don't need to be directed. None of the things you've listed contradict commercial fiction. They can be used or not as long as the quality of writing remains. Actually, the blending of literary and commercial can be very good. I agree with you wholeheartedly that pure literary fiction is annoying and nearly unreadable...at least it is for me and apparently for you. Wrap the baby and the rubber duck in a towel and throw out the bathwater.
                  
                  I believe the criteria Christy shared with us allows for both styles of fiction. Literary fiction can and should appear on HP as well as commercial fiction. There is room for both. Fortunately, no one is forcing you and me to read literary fiction

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                     TessSchlesingerposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                     I am not sure how to reply to you.

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                        cam8510posted 6 years agoin reply to this

                        We've both made our points. It's fine to disagree. Just so we do it respectfully and without patronizing.

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                           TessSchlesingerposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                           My point was simply that I wouldn't bother to upload fiction with criteria like that despite the fact that they were published previously in print or won national prizes. They just don't fit those criteria. But then, outside universities,writing magazines, literary magazines, writing courses, those are not the criteria.
                           
                           I truly do not have the capacity to write like that.

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                              cam8510posted 6 years agoin reply to this

                              Here is how I interpret some of the criteria shared with us:
                              
                              Message is fully developed-Plot is detailed and incorporates all the elements of a complete story.
                              Complementary tone-Genres have different tones, i.e. Romance/Thriller.
                              Noteworthy diction-Word choice. Every word counts.
                              Visual techniques-Show, don't tell.
                              Abundant detail-Overdone, this is distracting. But adequate detail forms the scene in the reader's mind.
                              Engaging-Grabs the reader from the first sentence and holds their attention.
                              Literary techniques-Possibly the only truly literary element in the entire list. Still useful to all writers.
                              Voice is confident and appropriate-Why would this be objectionable?
                              Unconventional-I'm all for developing my own style. You?
                              Work functions well as a whole-Any objections here?
                              Piece has a clear flow and a sense of purpose-Objections?
                              Visually the content is very attractive-Somebody will have to explain this to me.
                              Title is clever and/or thought-provoking-And you prefer, what?
                              All or nearly all language in accordance with standard usage-Why would we do otherwise?
                              
                              The list is not exclusively given to literary fiction.

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   shanmarieposted 6 years ago

   Thanks

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   Kierstin Gunsbergposted 6 years ago

   Thanks for doing this! I agree with Glen, a lot of the informative articles on LetterPile belong on ToughNickel, absolutely.

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   DzyMsLizzyposted 6 years ago

          
   
   (don't know how to make a 'thumbs-up' icon.... )

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      PegCole17posted 6 years agoin reply to this

      I hope this helps traffic - the move of creative content. I like the idea.

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   paperfacetsposted 6 years ago

   Book reviews are going to ...?

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      Christy Kirwanposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      Book reviews will be moving to Owlcation.

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   jansharesposted 6 years ago

   Finally. Poetry gets its due. I'm inspired to write some new stuff and submit. Great news! Thanks HP.

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    Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago

    I wondered why one of my semi-fiction tales on LetterPile was being edited and snipped.

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       Jean Bakulaposted 6 years agoin reply to this

       I've begun trying to write fiction, and recently some of my stuff was moved to Letterpile. It's getting better traffic than when it was on HP, or some of it was also on Paired Life, and it's doing better. Good news!

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    kannanwritesposted 6 years ago

    Good move.

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    Kierstin Gunsbergposted 6 years ago

    Chef, in my own experience, search traffic gives me way more hits than a following. Your hubs are much more nichey but your following will find you and so will others who didn't know you existed! I think you'll find the move works out great. We will ALL see our stats fall during the move but once Google pics up on the changes I bet a lot of us will see a rise in traffic on anything that was moved from LetterPile.

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       chef-de-jourposted 6 years agoin reply to this

       My inner pessimist is surfacing....only I genuinely do want the creative niche to flourish but am also a tad quivery about moving already successful hubs to another site. Especially when the announcement came out of the blue, from nowhere? Anyway, fingers crossed there are no issues - I still have faith in the HP staff!

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    VirginiaLynneposted 6 years ago

    Yikes. This makes me nervous since most of my traffic (which has been fabulous for the past few months) is on instructional writing on Letterpile.  I don't want my pieces scattered around to different sites since then they don't get linked to one another and shown in the previews.  Is there going to be some sort of thought about these issues?  I have almost 100 instructional writing pieces.  Will they be moved together?  It is already a problem that some of my articles are still on Hubpages and others are on Letterpile.

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       Christy Kirwanposted 6 years agoin reply to this

       They will all be moved to Owlcation, which is going to be the new home for "how to write" content.

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          VirginiaLynneposted 6 years agoin reply to this

          Ok--I think that will work for me and makes sense.  Thanks for the quick reply.

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       chef-de-jourposted 6 years agoin reply to this

       Join the nervous and panicky club! I'll be monitoring stats like a hawk over the next few transitional weeks. Like you, many of my hubs are flying at present; it'd be silly to have all the hard work undone. Let's hope there's a smooth change over.

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       Jean Bakulaposted 6 years agoin reply to this

       Hi VirginiaLynne,
       I have the same situation as you, a lot of "series" things and I had 155 hubs when the niche sites debuted.  My work was instructional too, although it's also metaphysical..I got all new traffic and did better on the niches. If some articles got separated, I was very worried about that too. But it was always done in a way that made sense with my main topic.
       
       Anytime I wasn't sure what to do, or felt a piece was truly in the wrong place, or separated from a companion piece, the administration worked well with me to work it out. I think you will be fine.

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    cam8510posted 6 years ago

    Many online magazines are having a great deal of success with fiction in various genres. If further changes need to be made, I would recommend moving in the direction of an online magazine. Organizing the site according to genre is essential so that the content can be searched.

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    shazwellynposted 6 years ago

    Ok.  After a number of years, I have returned to Hubpages with a fresh, renewed view.  As it has been a while, I feel a little lost as so much change, like Googles changes in SEO and Hubpages, has happened.  Now, I have a lot of creative stories within my hubpages account and now don't know what to do with my stories and poems (I have just realised that Hubpages has created a sister site for this).  Do I need to open a new account and transfer my stories to Letterpile or has this been done automatically?  Some advice would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks

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       Glenn Stokposted 6 years agoin reply to this

       No, you don't need to open another account. All your hubs remain in your account when they are moved to the vertical niche sites, and you can continue to see the stats on all of them from your stats page.
       
       Quality stellar hubs are being selected and moved. Most attention is being given to new hubs and if they have the quality required, they are usually moved automatically within a week to four weeks.
       
       Beside that, you can submit your older hubs to any niche site by clicking the button at the top of any hub that says: "submit to a HubPages Network Site."  If it doesn't meet the requirements of a stellar hub, you will receive an email telling you what you need to do to bring it up to stellar status.
       
       You can save time before submitting by editing your hubs and bringing them up to present requirements for a stellar hub. I see most of you hubs don't qualify. The most glaring thing is that they still are not mobile friendly. You are still using right-floating capsules. This is one of the easiest things to fix, which shows you are not paying attention to the latest news from HubPages. 
       
       I'm just saying that to help you get motivated if you want to get your creative stories and poems moved to Letterpile. I hope you put this advice, which you asked for, to good use.

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          shazwellynposted 6 years agoin reply to this

          When submitting to HubPages Network Site, the message states I can only do this every two weeks.  It is going to take me months to do this - I have so much material!
          
          I am so out of date...it is like starting again!  #lost#

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             cam8510posted 6 years agoin reply to this

             All of my new stories go to LetterPile within one day to a few days. Also, if I work on an old story that hasn't been moved yet, quite often it gets picked up within a few days as well. Begin by changing the title and lead photo; something to get the attention at HP headquarters. Make sure grammar and spelling are as good as you can make it. I don't know how much attention the pay to formatting, but you might make sure you are using standard formatting for fiction, i.e. new paragraphs for each change of speaker in dialogue. Get your best work up and ready for the changes. Good luck.

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                shazwellynposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                I am having real difficulties with the changes - it has been nearly 5 years since I was very active on HubPages, before apps became popular.  I would love to have a mentor that can help me fill the gaps.  For example, there used to be a learning centre that was easy to follow, I can't seem to find this now.  Also, it would be great to have an example of a Stella Hub and what does it mean to have 'right floating capsules'?  I would love to polish my evergreen hubs and bring them up to date - I have worked very hard in the past and it would be a shame for just to give up and waste this, the reason for my gap over the last few years.
                
                I remember, back in the day, there were great changes in how google searched content.  A group of us got our fingers burned when we gamed and experimented by link farming.  Sunforged was our leader and, unfortunately, won't have anything to do with me now - I think he blames me and didn't agree with my summary of changes to Google's search engine optimization.  I/we got severely punished by having my adsense account temporarily suspended and many of my articles were sandboxed to Google hell.  I learned from this lesson that content is king and cream hubs rise.  https://hubpages.com/technology/How-To- … nt-Is-King
                
                Although the lessons I had learned from the 60dc was right, it didn't go down too well and caused a feud with the SEO specialists in the team - so much so, I notice now that their comments on the above hub are no longer there - they must have removed them.
                
                Anyway, the short of it is that I want to abide by Google and HP rules and want to be enabled to spruce up my hubs to make them friendly.
                
                Any help is appreciated x

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                   cam8510posted 6 years agoin reply to this

                   shazwellyn, HP is definitely a different place than what you remember. The community is changing as well as the technical aspects of Google and creating hubs.
                   
                   I've read one of your fiction hubs. That is what caused me to mention formatting. I'm not saying your way is wrong. It just isn't a way of presenting a story that I am familiar with. I suggest you look at a few stories by successful fiction writers on the site such as Bill Holland and Mckbrdbooks. There are many others as well. That will show you what the HP staff is moving to the new site.
                   
                   Quite frankly, I have never worried about right floating capsules. I create my hubs the same as I always have and they are moved to LetterPile.
                   
                   Another approach might be to delete a story/hub and repost it as a new hub. Of course, before reposting, you would want to do everything possible to make it a stellar hub. It would then be treated by HP as a new post.
                   
                   There will be no quick way for you to catch up. I suggest you focus on new hubs that meet the requirements for LetterPile or wherever we end up. Work on the old stuff in your spare time. I imagine you have improved as a writer, so your new stories will be better anyway.
                   
                   I would be happy to have you email me your stories before you post them. I would simply give my opinion about what you could do to have the best chance at having it moved to the other site. As far as building the hub goes, I don't think you have to do anything different. Just use the tools that are available.

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                      shazwellynposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                      How kind of you!  I would greatly appreciate it if you would look over my hubs via e-mail - not sure how you would let me know your address considering confidentiality when posting on a site but if you can think of a way around this, it would be brilliant.
                      
                      Just a small query to ask... I am from the UK and the spell check system is geared up to Americana.  Words like optimization, for example, in the UK is optimisation.  Do my hubs get down graded because the system picks this up as a spelling error?   if I allow the spell checker to change, the UK audience will view my hubs riddled in errors, likewise without the change, the US audience may see my UK spellings as errors.  What do I do?  Spell check in English or American?
                      
                      Thank you for your support

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                      shazwellynposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                      Also had a thought... these are old, evergreen hubs that are supposed to mature with time and have been online for a few years now.  Is it really a good idea to delete and start again with a new url?  I am just thrashing out the pros and cons

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                   Marisa Wrightposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                   Shazwellyn, welcome back!  It would help you to read a couple of my Hubs. You'll find them on the slider on my profile.  One is the Basic Rules - it summarises all the current rules in one place, so you don't need to wade through the learning centre.  The other is How to  Optimize Your Hubs, which gives you an overview of the current thinking on how to lay out Hubs.
                   
                   It is definitely not a good idea to delete your old Hubs and republish them on a new URL - unless they've been "unfeatured" for a long time and are not getting traffic.   If that's the case, then they've already been de-indexed and deleting them won't make any difference.   
                   
                   However if you delete a Hub that's still getting traffic, you'll lose all their age and reputation, so that's not a good idea.
                   
                   In deciding what to work on first, I strongly suggest focussing on your factual articles, not your creative writing.  As you probably know, fiction and poetry have never done well on HubPages and they're not doing much better on LetterPile, so it's not worth the effort.  Maybe, if this change (making LetterPile exclusively creative writing) improves traffic, it will be worth the effort to get them moved later.
                   
                   Oh, and right-floated capsules are being discontinued (they're the half-width capsules).

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                      shazwellynposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                      Oh lovely to see an old friend here! 
                      
                      So, right capsules are being discontinued - does that mean that in time my hubs will automatically change to be more appropriate for apps?
                      
                      I had a feeling that deleting evergreen featured hubs would be a bad idea and have asked this question elsewhere, so thanks for clarifying this.
                      
                      I am a lot less lost now because of the support here.  Thanks x

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                         Marisa Wrightposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                         If you look at any of your Hubs in "Preview" mode in Mobile view, you'll see that all the capsules become full width in that view automatically.   The trouble is the sequence of capsules.   If you've got a paragraph with a product right-floated next to it, that product appears ABOVE the paragraph, not below, and that can be nonsensical for the reader.  It's a pain, but all you can do is go through and fix them all up. 
                         
                         They actually introduced the mobile layout almost two years ago, so I've had time to slowly go through mine.

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                            shazwellynposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                            Thanks for your help here, Marisa and as you have been voted one of the most helpful hubbers here (congratulations btw, I saw your accolade whilst reading up on the blog posts), I hoped you might take a look at this...I have gone through your recommendations and have taken your advice on board on this unfeatured hub.  Am I going in the right direction now? https://hubpages.com/health/Autism-Spec … -and-Girls

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                               Marisa Wrightposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                               That link will probably get snipped - the only place we're allowed to post links to our Hubs on the forums is in the Improving Your Article section.  However, while it's there, here's my feedback.
                               
                               I think you need to consider who this article is aimed at, then take a careful look at both the title and the structure of the Hub. 
                               
                               First, what would someone be typing into Google to find this information?  That should be your title, and I'm not sure that's the case right now.  Also, I felt the structure of the article jumps around a bit, and I wasn't clear from the introduction exactly what information you were going to offer.   You need to convince the reader, in the first paragraph, that you're going to help answer their question or solve their problem (on a side note, the fact is that if the Hub is not answering a question or solving a problem, it's probably not worth trying to sell anything in it, because the reader won't be in the mood to buy).
                               
                               Because you review the book in the text, the Amazon capsule is probably OK - however I would put a few words of description into the capsule itself, to be on the safe side.  And remember it has to be personal!

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                                  TessSchlesingerposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                                  Just curious. What happens if you answer the question in the first paragraph. Will the reader read on?

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                                     Marisa Wrightposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                                     If the question is so simplistic that it can be answered in one paragraph, then it's more than likely the person won't even visit the Hub - because they'll have got the answer from Google already.

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    DzyMsLizzyposted 6 years ago

    2 weeks is okay; it started out at something like every 30 or 60 days!

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    Kristen Howeposted 6 years ago

    Christy, I just asked this question to Tayor and he mentioned it to me. Now I know why my recent hub I sent to LetterPile was redirected to HobbyLark.

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    Kristen Howeposted 6 years ago

    I meant Taylor.

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