Do you forgive people who do not ask for forgiveness?
LOL
I am sorry but this cracked me up!
I am still laughing, good one Tex!
Sums it up!
Good points
"Who am I to give,Who am I to forgive?
"the binding force is love,
The symbol being the white dove. "
How do they prove they are genuinely sorry? The evidence of being as such?
Yes, there is only one kind of forgiveness, some folks think otherwise though. They say they forgive, but do not forget. Not understanding that forgiveness is offered to one who owes a debt, once forgiven the debt is forgotten by the creditor and not to be brought up or remembered.
So if you say you forgive and do not forget, you have not forgiven in the truest meaning of the word. Every time you recall it because you refuse to forget it, you are not forgiving them all over again.
Do you forgive knowing that you are forgiven to the exact degree that you forgive others as well? And yes, bitterness effects your health as well as your entire being.
I always forgive them so the answer for me is simple the answer to the questions is yes.
So it seems like you have a list of things that are not forgivable for you?
Even if someone asked? After they punched you?
No, people cannot go around and do whatever they want, I agree.
Do you think we can forgive and yet let the person deal with the consequences?
- Crazdwriterposted 14 years ago
0 - Crazdwriterposted 14 years ago0
Ok, good for you. It's great to treat people how you want to be treated.
I was only saying the 3 times thing because you indicated that was your limit.
If you have never done the the same offense 4 times, then you are very rare indeed.
Not a literal adding up and not a joke.
Do you keep track? or when you forgive is it like the first time?
I meant not offense at all.
I would say that if someone is ignorant of what they have done and you know they had no clue, then forgive them because they did not know.
I would mention it to them kindly though.
If someone knowingly offends and does not ask for the pardon, then none is granted. I am not bitter about it though.
Anytime they want to act like everything is fine without having asked for forgiveness, i just politely say "we have something to discuss still" and if they blow me off...well then...I have my answer.Right, that's on them now is it not?
I want restoration and forgiveness, but I do not "NEED IT" from the offender, they have to want it. Again, it is a choice they make.
I will forgive you as many times as it takes if you really want to have a relationship. But one must SHOW it.
I have no "co-dependent" relationships.
- Onusonusposted 14 years ago0
My mistake sorry, it should say "you need to ask or it will not be granted"
I will fix it. Sorry.
- margareteposted 14 years ago0
- Crazdwriterposted 14 years ago0
I realize that.
I did not know forgiveness was a religion.
No offense.
- Crazdwriterposted 14 years ago0
So what about you?
Have you ever been forgiven 4 times for something?
It's hard to believe someone can go through life and never made the same error 4 times.
You say your cut off is 3, and that you believe in God, but that is not what He says to do, so I am confused.
'To err is human, to forgive is divine.' As I'm not divine, I never forgive. I'm human and always erring on this.
Tantrum
are you saying no one's ever really, really hurt you or maybe ran over your Hamster or something...?No ! what I'm saying is, that if you hurt me ,I will never forgive you, as I'm not divine .
Let's be blunt here - forgiveness benefits the one doing the forgiving. Selfish behavior for one's own benefit. Holding a grudge is bad for you - we all know that. So there is nothing laudable about forgiveness.
I forgive you for creating yet another personality to hide behind to push your irrational beliefs. I don't care what you believe. The fact is that forgiveness - especially where it is not needed - benefits the one doing the forgiving. And id we want to go the whole passive/aggressive christian route:
"I forgive you for being so uneducated and ignorant that you are unable to see that."
My sentiments exactly. If there's a God, and if He wants to forgive some rotten piece-of-whatever - that's His business. I don't think people should presume to be "divine". How arrogant.
Ok. Gotcha.
I forgive always, everytime, no question.
I forgive even when I haven't been asked yet for that forgiveness.
why? Because I love.I always try to forgive people and do not store negative emotions in my soul. If a person does something extremely awful I just stop any relation with him or her and try not to think about this person any more. I'm an optimist, I like enjoy my life and do not waste my time and emotions on people who don't deserve it...
Sounds like some deep experiences there.
Thanks for saying this.
Tantrum, again, I agree.
daabie8, I don't think "forgiving" is always that beautiful a word. Sometimes it's a cop-out word.
In the examples of, say, a frail elderly person in a nursing home who is routinely victimized by someone guilty of intentional elder abuse; or of someone who kidnaps a child and "does whatever" to the child; why on Earth would any human being (or God, for that matter) believe there should be forgiveness? To spare our own minds of having to deal with the very ugly reality that this kind of stuff goes on? Because we're afraid that if we accidentally knock over someone's treasured geraniums we won't be forgiven if we don't forgive every last, sick, criminally-abusive, freak that victimizes? Do people honestly believe that, if there's a God, He'd give these freaks a "pass"? I just think that pretending there's no such thing as something that should not be forgiven is a form of whitewashing evil (or something). ("Oopsie - Grandma has been being abused at the nursing home for six months now. Oh well, let's forgive and forget and move on and not have to burden our little heads with thinking about it." I don't think so. I'd rather die earlier of stress, knowing I had never deluded myself into the la-la-land of "forgetting" what "Grandma" went through; or compromise my own belief that we shouldn't just "make friends or peace with evil" and move on.)Exactly, the goal is reconciliation and forgiveness is offered and given if that is the goal of the offender as well.
Did you have specific answers to the questions of the topic too?
Certainly something more should have been done there, very, very sorry to hear of this total lack of justice. People do get away with crimes all to often, making it hard to move on.
If you kill someone, you must be accountable for it !!
Driving drunk is a crime and another crime was committed in the killing. The person intentionally drove drunk so anything that happened was a result of the intentions / results of being drunk. Drunks do not get let off because they were drunk. At least that is the way it should be.
Did this person show any remorse or ask for forgiveness from the family?Oh, she certainly didn't show any; but I think she may have just not wanted to "give us the satisfaction". I only had one face-to-face encounter in the hall of the court for a fraction of a minute. She made no attempt to contact the family (but in fairness, her lawyer may have told her not to). If she was remorseful she didn't let me or the family know that. Really, though, she just seemed grateful to have the court hearing over and get off with as little as she did. (This was ages and ages ago. The point is, though, that all over the world people choose to make victims of other people in one way or another. I think the "general message" from society should be changed, almost the way attitudes toward smoking have been changed. Instead of sending the message, "No matter what anyone ever does it can always be forgiven", I think we should send the message, "Some things are unforgivable, and you can spend 50 years in prison but still never be forgiven. Keep that in mind."
- annvansposted 14 years ago0
- annvansposted 14 years ago0
- Yes? What about someone torturing and killing your child in front of you, and laughing in the process? I think your statement is very shallow or too 'new age' for my taste.
The life ofyour child will not return. I think that, or you don't have children or, as I said you're very shallow and don't know how to love a child
You don't care he's dead ??
- annvansposted 14 years ago0
- annvansposted 14 years ago0
Having been a severely abused child myself, I was incredibly bitter for not being able to forgive all that happened. It consumed me and was killing me. After 47 years, lots of work, I was finally able to forgive, and I freed not only myself, but the other person. I didn't have to respond in love. All I had to do was let go.
In the process, I found that by forgiving, the chains that bound us together in the most bitter hatred finally were broken. I was armed with skills in how to protect myself form it ever happening again. Forgiveness for me simply meant that it wasn't at the forefront of my existence and who I am. It no longer mattered. That person no longer mattered. I had no ill will for that person, and it was finally a nonissue. Because it was a nonissue, it remains in the back of my memory, and I am no longer plagued with the incredible pain and victimization.
I finally took responsibility for my life. Just MY life. By so doing, I no longer needed to hold a grudge. When we were together, I was no longer threatened by that presence. I was calm. And my calmness shook that person, oddly.
I think forgiveness is an emotionally and physically healthy thing to do. However, in so doing, there have to be conditions for the forgiveness if both are to be at peace. I had to do that alone, without the other person's participation. It's not easy, but it's possible.
Forgiving is about being smart. It's about not hanging on to toxic crap. It is not about making yourself vulnerable to further attacks and/or victimizations.
My experience may be unique to some degree, but I really doubt. What I've gone through is not unique. People survive abuse. But my take on a LOT of things in life is different than so many others I've met. I've had to take the rough journey to find out for my ownself.
I questioned everything. Every detail of my life I had to question and I had to decide for myself issues of religion, social norms and standards, and what good health meant to me, and how to achieve it. So I question the skeptics as much as I question believers. The people in life you're supposed to trust, I could never trust. None of them. Not a one. Their brains were all filled with batsh** and they made me insane.
I had to grow up, take responsibility for my life, and figure out what sanity was, because the things that everyone else preached simply never added up. There were holes, flaws, lies and half truths all through it, and so I decided to go on my own journey and figure it out for just me.
Sum total is that I believe in a power I will never understand in this life. It's not like anything a human could possess. Therefore, I have my extreme doubts about what people describe is "God." I believe in forgiveness in the way I described. I just don't think it's all as nearly as complex as we make it, nor do I believe that our egos, which are so good at puzzles, have figured out the puzzle of how the universe works. There are no good answers in most cases, only in a few.
My, my, my. That was a fine ramble.
LOL
Must be time to sit back and laugh at myself.Not a ramble at all, honest, humble sharing is how I saw it.
Thanks for the openness. It might help someone.
Forgiveness should be granted when the person makes amends, reconciliation and true remorse is all of these, not just a look on the face.
Cowards are not to be forgiven at all, they will just do it again as I have seen.
One must have proof of the change first.
- annvansposted 14 years ago0
Many are making statements and that is really great.
Can you please answer the questions of the topic too? Sybil Marie, that goes back to the belief that it is not possible to refuse to forgive while also not steeping in one's own resentment. It's possible to, for example, "write someone off as dead" and just move on. It's also possible to write them off as dead, move on, but be open to the possibility that, should the opportunity present itself to get lawful revenge, you could follow up on that step as well.
I guess it depends on how well someone can sort out his own emotions from his thoughts about the other person.My Mother was mentally ill and abusive when I was a child, I spent many years hatting her,fearing her. As an Adult I pretty much cut her out of my life ( I think sometimes the best relationship you can have with someone is no relationship at all). Ihadn't seen her in ten years until something happened to bring her back into my life three months before she died. (I can relate alot to Daniel) I had the opportunity to forgive, and for me that had to do with God. I'm a different person now because of it.
For along time I thought I would like revenge but when the time came to see her in pain it was not what I really wanted.
Again I had been drinking the poison of resentment and it had kept me sick along time.I had to forgive for me, not for her you seeWow that's a good point Lisa! Seeing injustice done to the innocent is much harder to do! I reread what you posted earlier as well and I think what you were talking about when you said legal revenge would fall more under the umbrella of justice than revenge ( if I understand you correctly)
Your experience makes a stong point. NO ONE escapes the crap. So much of it depends on how we learn to overcome our victimhood and take responsibility for ourselves, and move forward, and forgivenss is a very liberating way to do that.
Good points here in this thread. Thanks for bringing it up.You are welcome, hope more people come back.
Aya, agreed. Probably, when all is said and done, my "they're-dead-to me" thing; and other people's "I-forgive-them" thing amount to the same end result - mentally moving on and no longer spinning our wheels of whatever it was. (I just find the "dead-to-me" thing more rewarding
)
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