Biden's Free Community College Would Present Opportunities Or Problems

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   Sharlee01posted 3 years ago

   
   $109 billion for two years of free community college "so that every student has the ability to obtain a degree or certificate." Dreamer students would be included. "American workers need and deserve additional support to build their skills, increase their earnings, remain competitive, and share in the benefits of the new economy," says the plan.  Source --    https://www.insidehighered.com/news/202 … llion-plan
   
   Many of Joe's big plans sound wonderful. However, it does not take long to see the free community college plan could offer some real problems.  The fact is America at this point does not have the infrastructure to support free community college for all.
   
   So, is it really feasible to offer free junior college in America?  I have done some research into Biden's plan for free community college. He is very clear that he would like to offer this perk to our young adults, and it sounds exciting, progressive, and just plain great. However, is it feasible?  While yes it is plausible that both parties could agree on free college is a good idea, and would provide further education to many that otherwise could not afford it? It would be something that both parties could justify paying for with taxpayer money.  Plus, free community college would most likely get support from the majority of Americans.
   
   Here is the needle that pops the ballon. In my minimal research, I found no one addressed a glaring problem, a very big needle...    Here in Michigan, we have Community Colleges all over the state.  Most have limited admissions in their programs, as well as limited numbers that are accepted each admission period.  Many citizens at this point are turned away and put on waiting lists.  Most programs have very long waiting lists, and students are accepted on grade average.  So, will the Government do away with competing for positions with a grade average?   Has the Biden administration considered the glaring problem that we just don't have the number of community colleges to provide the enormous number of students that would hope to attend under his free tuition plan? 
   
   It would appear if the Federal Government is serious about offering up Joe's free community college they have some extraordinary planning to do.   At this point as far as I can see,   they have put the horse before the cart.  The government literally would need to build additional community colleges across the country to make two + two equal four.
   
   So, is the promise of free community college really feasible due to the sheer lack of the number of community colleges factually available?
   
   Would you agree to spend tax dollars on building new community colleges throughout the country to offer free community colleges?
   
   What do you think about taking a grade average out of obtaining a spot in a college trade program?
   
   And finally, do you think this Biden plan perhaps should have been researched in regard to the true problems that would occur if implemented?

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      wildernessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      I'll give you another potential (almost certain, though) problem; that kids will go on to community college after high school rather than get a job, with zero intention of actually using that education in the future.  We already have "students" in college doing that; college is nothing more than a free play time between high school and self dependence. 
      
      How about an agreement to either work for 5 years in their declared field of study or pay it back, perhaps by adding 20% of the cost to their taxes each year for 5 years?

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         Credence2posted 3 years agoin reply to this

         That is a damnable dismal attitude about young people who will be supporting your retirement.

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            Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

            If you read Bidens American plan you will note something missing --- no mention of making K -12 schools better. He is making unrealistic promises, using these goodies as political ploys.  The community college promise is in no respect feasible unless he can provide new community colleges all over America. Our community colleges are already overcrowded with waiting lists.   This promise is a very dishonest unrealistic promise, that in my view, is just a political lie. This is what Dems do. All one needs to do is a bit of research to see the problems community colleges are having with admissions due to so many applicants. https://www.communitycollegereview.com/ … on-freezes   
            
            Bidens  plan    https://www.insidehighered.com/news/202 … llion-plan

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               Credence2posted 3 years agoin reply to this

               And what do Republicans contribute to the issue outside of complaining about the noble left's attempt to at least tackle the problem verses doing nothing?

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                  wildernessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                  The "noble left" has done nothing but hamstring and hamper education in general.  Beginning with federal rules on what shall be taught.

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                  Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

                  Conservatives at this point support school choice through charter schools and school vouchers for private schools; many of us have denounced the current performance of the public school system and the teachers' unions.
                  
                  I see your point in regard to republicans have not offered much other than the school of choice and vouchers --- However, these programs were, and remain feasible, and are working and offer children better educations.
                  
                  I don't think it is noble to offer pipe dreams such as free community college when it is in no respect feasible. 
                  
                  Again just not enough community colleges in the US to handle Biden's flighty plan.  The community colleges are overcrowded most with a waiting list to attend.
                  
                  Biden is making many promises, that are very unrealistic. I don't find this a noble trait.

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            Ken Burgessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

            But  there may be some reality to it.
            
            American Colleges 40 years ago churned out the largest amount of STEM graduates in the world, the focus was on engineering and programming.
            
            Today's Colleges are focused on Social Justice degrees and Human Rights, while China now produces 8 times as many STEM graduates as America does.
            
            Our colleges, our schools produce far more graduates who have learned about self-reflection and criticism (who to blame, who is a victim and why)  than they do STEM fields.
            
            Plenty of degrees on Socialism out there as well, here is a quote from one such student:
            
            "As a sociology major focusing on class conflict theory the capitalist glorification of stem majors sickens me. ...  STEM majors like to think they work hard and contribute the most to society, but in reality its the ... Is a social worker or addiction counselor making 30k a year really less valuable than ... "
            
            The concept that those that produce in society, the engineers, the farmers, the construction workers, should be considered the backbone of an economy is being supplanted by the perverse concepts taught in our colleges that those that do not have an equal or higher value in society to those that actually produce.
            
            There is nothing Free, someone has to pay for it, I have no sympathy for those that choose to burden themselves with debt and then blame others for it.  Its just another sign of how sick our society has become, no sense of responsibility, no decency, just over indulged, spoiled, ignorant and arrogant Americans who think the world owes them something.

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               wildernessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

               Well said.  So much of what is being taught in our education system today is just fluff; nothing that can be used to produce anything of value.

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               Credence2posted 3 years agoin reply to this

               Ken, china is a totalitarian dictatorship that does not give a great deal credence to the social sciences in regard to higher education. So, it is not as if  there is a lot of choice there.
               
               Graduates learn to THINK which the conservative mindset is opposed to as a foundation.
               
               https://www.bestcolleges.com/blog/most- … ge-majors/
               
               I don't see the sky falling, Ken.

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               Credence2posted 3 years agoin reply to this

               "China has experienced a revolution in third level education since the turn of the century. By 2016, it was building the equivalent of nearly one university every week and in terms of graduate numbers, it has surpassed both Europe and the United States."
               
               So, now for the "rest of the story"
               
               Perhaps instead of blaming American college students for their choice of majors. Are you flinty rightwingers willing to make the kinds of investments into educational infrastructure that China has?
               
               How do YOU say what we should to catch up?
               
               For every one student example you give, I could find one that says otherwise, so your example is not necessarily to be taken as gospel.
               
               Conservative are always against open inquiry and allowing people to think for themselves. Perhaps, that is why conservatives hate the foundations of academia so much?

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         Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

         to be honest I think-12 is the most important time in a child's education. If they don't get a good basic education they won't make it very far in college If the Federal government wants to put money into education they should have a good look at the census, and build more public schools to accommodate the class size, and provide more teachers. 
         
         The community college promise is not feasible in any respect. Too many students that at this point can only afford a junior college are unable to get in due to overcrowding. Not sure how this plan is even being talked about in the Biden administration.  It's a poor ploy to make such a promise.

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            Castlepalomaposted 3 years agoin reply to this

            There is 2.3 million prison cells and 54,444 college dorms in the USA.
            
            Start with switching those numbers around.

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               Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

               We are a very populated country with 340 million people. Not really sure how many citizens are in our prisons at this point.  Yes, we have some wonderful Universities that have dorms, which are pretty hard to get. Our Two-year community colleges are hard to get into many have long waiting lists. I was simply trying to point out Biden is setting out on the wrong foot making vague promises that are very unrealistic, unless he intends to build many more community colleges. 
               
               Not sure what you are getting at bringing up the prison system.  At any rate, I never realized Aerica had so many prison cells.

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                  Castlepalomaposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                  Last 40 years prisons have grown 10 times.

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               Ken Burgessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

               Simple, but true.
               
               The Problem does not stem from education alone however.
               
               One has to have opportunity... jobs to fill.
               
               Americans were once spreading across the globe, engineers, educators, construction workers, and so salaries rose, the wealth of the working class went up.
               
               America does not export its workers today, instead we are importers of "low education' labor as well as "high education" workers from India, China, etc.
               
               And it is these countries that are excelling in the CRITICAL fields which create real wealth and upward mobility in society.
               
               There will ALWAYS be need for STEM graduates, anything else is a luxury or fancy of an indulgent society.

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                  Castlepalomaposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                  +

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   DonScalletaposted 3 years ago

   Honestly, I've no words.

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   Constant Jumaposted 3 years ago

   I can say that he seems to be a man who's really committed in achieving his promises. I'm not a US citizen yet I knew a beneficiary of his education program in my country long before he even became the president. I believe he must be having a long term plan to enable him realize that.

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   Live to Learnposted 3 years ago

   I think we need to stop pretending every person is capable of getting a college degree.  We need to stop pretending many service industry jobs can be filled by happy people with college degrees. 
   
   We need to stop setting people up for disappointment.  And we need to accept that educating people beyond their level of intelligence is not in their best interest. Free college equates to dashed hopes for many. 
   
   So,  no.  I don't think free community college is a good idea.

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      Castlepalomaposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Their could get their PHD on YouTube, if picked wisely.

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      gmwilliamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      +10000000000000000, there should be college quotas w/only the 10% of students attending college.

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   davrowpotposted 3 years ago

   Are community colleges in US the same as State Universities? Because I have some points to give out just in case they're the (at least almost) same.

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      Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

      The difference between a community college and a university is degrees at a community college take two years to complete, while degrees at a university take four years to complete. or more depending on the degree one is seeking.  Community colleges award certificates and two-year associate degrees. they are very much less expensive and are very overcrowded do too many just do not have the cash to attend a University. Plus one can pick up credits that can be applied to a four-year degree if the student goes on the attend a University.   
      
      Community colleges are good stepping stones to higher education and can provide savings to a student when they start their education at a two-year less expensive community college.

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      gmwilliamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      No, community college is for subpar students who couldn't make the grade.  Community college is the special education of colleges so to speak.

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         AliciaCposted 3 years agoin reply to this

         This is not always true in Canada, and Sharlee’s post suggests that it’s not always the case in the United States, either. University is expensive. Attending a community college for two years and then transferring to a university for the third and fourth years in a degree program can save a considerable amount of money.

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            gmwilliamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

            But community college is for those who weren't capable of getting into a university.   If one stated that h/she was attending community college, h/she would be deemed a dummy or worse.   Attending community college has a stigma, c'mon now.    A person who attends community college is viewed as subpar or worse.

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               AliciaCposted 3 years agoin reply to this

               This is not the case where I live. It’s very sad if that’s the situation where you live.

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               wildernessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

               Quite the contrary; community college is for those students that want an education rather than several years of good times and fun play.  It is for those smart enough to find a way to cut costs by taking those basic classes out of the high cost category and leave only pay the higher cost for those classes that community colleges do not offer.

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                  davrowpotposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                  If costs are one of the root problems students face when going to universities, don't they have, like, scholarship programs for that? What about monthly or semestral monetary support from the city or federal state governments? I am wondering why people have to go through such economic hardships on higher education when the national government could provide subsidy and could provide/create a system to avail it to these students, especially in a rich country like the US. I am also baffled by the student loans you guys have, because most countries doesn't have that kind of system. It's like you're not helping or trying to help your education systems by economically barring students and virtually stopping them from achieving opportunities, given that these people would then be in the working force/businesses with their taxes that will help others and the general economy.

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                     Credence2posted 3 years agoin reply to this

                     My sentiments exactly, how does it benefit a man to shoot himself in the foot?

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                        Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

                        A good college education has become impossible for so many to afford. The cost has become out of control Basically the costs can be blamed on several factors --- The fact that there are more students who are borrowing money has caused governments to respond accordingly and provide loans, which universities started to take advantage of,  just knowing that the means are available to students to borrow cash from the Gov. ---  The Salaries Of Professors, as well as benefits and pension.
                        
                        Both of these factors could be fixed with common sense.  If the Government gave less in loans, the cost would eventually drop with the cut in admissions due to high cost. And the educator's unions could be either broken or new benefits established. 
                        
                        America is failing its citizens when it comes to education.  It would seem we the people have allowed the problem to grow.  The nation has become a nation of weak people that just stumble along and ignore problems.

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                           wildernessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                           Although I can't speak to salaries of professors, you are exactly right in that the easy access to egregious loans is one factor in rising college prices.  When we effectively tell colleges that the sky is the limit for tuition then the sky is the limit.
                           
                           But there is far more to rising prices than salaries and loans.  Our colleges have become a play time, with entertainment more important than education and someone has to pay for those 4 years of play.  The cost of maintaining huge sports programs, of keeping giant "student centers" full of bowling alleys, ballrooms, arcade games, etc. is not cheap.
                           
                           Then there is the curriculum; the typical college curriculum is chock full of useless classes, or at least classes useless for the purposes of finding a job.  My state just passed legislation prohibiting the teaching of the newest method of indoctrinating our children to be racists; the critical race theory nonsense.  The state will not be involved in paying to teach "victimology" nor to teach that a specific race is inherently inferior in that they are racists.
                           
                           Force, through lack of funding, colleges and universities to return to the days of teaching an education aimed at providing a lifetime of employment skills and the price will drop preciptiously.

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                              Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

                              I can't disagree with one word you said.  It is a fact the majority of the stem workers are foreign-born working here on H-1B Visas.  This fact proves America is doing something very wrong educating our children.

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                                 Ken Burgessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                                 The other component is that they have made degrees for everything,
                                 
                                 More than 100 colleges offer students the option of obtaining a degree majoring or minoring in “social justice” for instance.
                                 
                                 Anyone who thought things would get "back to normal" sorry to tell you this is only the beginning of the polarization and victimization of our society, not the end.
                                 
                                 Baizuo, a derogatory term in Mandarin that refers to the "leftist elites" in the West, has become increasingly popular among China's citizens.  China laughs at the US as it destroys itself from within.

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                                    wildernessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                                    Can't imagine a company hiring a major in "social justice".  Which means that their vaunted college degree is worthless when it comes to marketing their skill set; the only possibility is the college that "trained" them and those jobs are already filled.

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                                    Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

                                    I agree with your sentiment. However, is it possible that the leftocrats  are in a small minority? I have been really coming to the conclusion the left leaners are looking pretty ridiculous to most Americans. I must admit I have a grandson that fits the bill of a young man with a very expensive education and has been living in the lower level with his parents... 
                                    
                                    They let's say were liberals, now --- not so much. LOL

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                           Credence2posted 3 years agoin reply to this

                           This is the reality, Sharlee
                           
                           "China has experienced a revolution in third level education since the turn of the century. By 2016, it was building the equivalent of nearly one university every week and in terms of graduate numbers, it has surpassed both Europe and the United States."
                           
                           China going the distance to acquire the best and they are on a roll, knowing that flinty just keeps them behind, do we recognize this in America? The times require that we invest in people, since we seem to have resources to invest in so many other things. My comments in reply to an earlier poster stands.
                           
                           To even hope to compete we are going to have to think beyond the old sandbox and get rid of the Ralph Cramden attitude, not recognizing the tangible and intangible benefits of a college education. We are going to have to attract everyone and anyone with aptitude and desire, rich and poor, black white. If we are going to win then all hands must be on deck.
                           
                           For that reason, I cannot dismiss your suggestions out of hand
                           
                           I cannot claim to be aware of the professorial structure of higher education, I have not heard of unions in this regard.

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                              wildernessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                              There is a teachers union at Boise State University, where I live.  If little old BSU, in a right to work state, has one I can only assume that it is nearly country wide.
                              
                              I also noticed that country wide, professorial salaries are about $130,000.  This seems perhaps bit high, but not too much given that virtually all of them have 8 years of study (a PHD) under their belt.  Until, at least, I realized that is a national average, meaning that nearly half are paid much, much more than that.  I would have said that $130,000 is reasonable for a top salary as a college professor, with a small handful paid more at elite universities.

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