So, The Bible Is Not A Government God?
lol Do you submit and worship all of your politicians as well as God? Do you think laws are divine? Did God tell you not to text while driving? I think you have your belief confused. lol God is government, but government is not God? Wouldn't that make them the same thing.
Even the mention of religion in government is a scary thought for me. All Americans have to accept that religion has a huge say in government, simply because if you are not a god botherer you will not gain office! Crazy!
No the bible is not the word of any god, just the ramblings of sick controlling minds, nothing new.
The dumbing down required to get in to religion is an amazing miracle in itself!
No sane rational person is going to believe that a sky fairy will kill them or take away a non existent afterlife if they do something like fart on Wednesday between three and four pm.
It does not make any sense other than to say that it exposes the human condition of the authors, as writing always does.OK fare enough, I will withdraw sky fairy, and the claim to stupidity also, in light of the fact that indoctrination could take up the slack.
The comparison to a fairy does not seem to be much different to believing in an invisible entity who does a pile of stuff that nobody but the affected party can see or measure.
As for the way I have said my piece, well that is me, so I guess you will have to file me under "outspoken"
From the OT
Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10
I don't like your god.I think the difference is that religions have the capacity to be "transformative" ( I would say). So they do or can have value (unlike fairy tales, which are fun, but probably not life-changing
).
But, as I said above, it's a good idea to strip things away so you're left with the good bits. I mean, believing God stopped the sun, believing God ordered ethnic cleansing, these things muddy the waters hugely. But if Jesus is a "form" via which "God" (whatever that may be) can be "experienced" or "communed with", irrespective of the mechanics, that's fine for me as a possible "fact" in some sense.
What I don't get is this insistence on all the rest of it. I mean, as I've suggested already (somewhere...), if St. Paul was a raving, frothing lunatic, I still don't see why you couldn't ignore him and *still* have a *relationship with Christ* (whatever that might be).Mmm, Valerie, you're obviously a smart cookie, which is refreshing, because well, as you know... well, I'll say no more...
But I'm not sure I can get on board with everything you say here (surprise!
).
The fact is that God/Ywhwh orders the Israelites/Hebrews to commit acts of ethnic cleansing, and in fact Saul is punished for sparing some people on one occasion. Whether a specific verse is being taken out of context in the example above is not important for me; but the fact there is a pattern of genocidal tendencies seems to me far more worrisome...
I'm not sure what the Talmud has to do with price of fish, because I thought the debate concerned Christianity, but this is not my major concern, in any case, really.
What bothers me, as I have written on another thread, is that I don't see why a person cannot accept Christ into their life (as the expression is phrased), accept his Resurrection (I guess, perhaps), and his sacrifice (if, well, you believe that), and thus be blessed with salvation, and *still* refute some of this humbug. Didn't you refer to C.S. Lewis the other day? I mean, I can't vouch for the truth of this, but another hubber posted that Lewis rejected much of the Bible himself!...
...And that's ok. A friend of mine, who was once pretty devout, used to attend a church called Faith Bible Chapel. When he left, he said to me that it should've been called "Faith IN the Bible Chapel".
In other words, a lot of non-believers would probably be a lot more interested if they didn't have to worry about every little bit of the Gospel of John, but could just be left alone to have a transformative conversion experience involving "the Christ", without being saddled with these extra bits.
Ciao!
The problem is that fundies were probably moderates at some time. It is the hate filled tomes like the quoran and bible that these people use to promote there hate of minorities and each other's religions.
Here is an example from the bible, one of hundreds.
Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7
Kill anyone who refuses to listen to a priest. Deuteronomy 17:12-13
Kill any false prophets. Deuteronomy 18:20
Not a nice set of beliefs!The politics you get are affected far too much by religion in my view, and probably tin the view of half the rest of the planet.
Earnest,
Your city is SO cool! I was there when the thunderstorms (the one that hit the 17 year old girl
) happened. It is such a beautiful city. St. Kilda beach was so calm and beautiful (despite the dead Jellies). I am seriously going to try to move over there.Good for you PrOmetheus! Melbourne is without doubt one of the worlds best cities. I welcome you.
Haha, good to hear. Everyone is so nice over there too. It's a complete culture shock from Southern California. Thank god my GF was born in Sydney, should make it easy for me to get in
. Plus I'm a techie, and I hear there's a lot of techie jobs over there right now.And one of the biggest I have been to.
All "out of context" I know.
Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
Kill Witches
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)
Kill Homosexuals
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
Kill Fortunetellers
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)
Death for Hitting Dad
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)
Death for Cursing Parents
1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)
2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)
Death for Adultery
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
Death for Fornication
A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)
Death to Followers of Other Religions
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)
Kill Nonbelievers
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
Kill False Prophets
If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)
Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)
Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night
But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)
Kill Followers of Other Religions.
1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)
Death for Blasphemy
One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)
Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, 'Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,' do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)
But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.' You may wonder, 'How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?' If the prophet predicts something in the LORD's name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)
So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)
For the LORD had said to Moses, 'Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.' (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)
The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)
Nice!If I were Valerie (
) my strategy would be to say that Christ came to fulfil the law and the prophets, which was a roundabout way of saying you don't have to listen to that stuff anyway -- certainly most Christians I know eat pork!!!!!
Actually, maybe my biblical historical-criticism is off there, but there is no question however that Paul thought the Old Testament was for the birds, more or less, and that one should follow the spirit of the law and not the letter.
Now I am no fan of Paul, generally speaking (though it's been a while...), but this at least works quite well: cos some of that stuff is pretty nutty.Kill False Prophets
If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)
Jesus was killed himself. So they have no idea who is a false prophet to begin with. Jesus was a false prophet. He suckered you didn't he?
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