Collateral Murder

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sabrebIadeposted 14 years ago
Has anyone seen this?
And if so...what do you think?
WARNING:
This video is graphic and could be very disturbing to some.
It disturbed the hell outta me.

<link snipped, please do not post graphic material>
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And you're disturb ?
  
  That's nothing, only a fraction of all the nasty things your Country does in this Countries. Beginning wars making up proofs of terrorism to attack them. Like the fake underground missiles in Irak.
  And the Gulf War
  And Afghanistan
  And what about Bin Laden, Bush's friend ?
  
  and lets not talk about Nam or Korea.
  And the Pearl Harbour 'scenario'
  And I won't say anything about 9/11 out of respect of all the people that died for someone's greed for power
  
  You should Google more and learn!
  
  I would laugh if it wasn't so pathetic and sad !
  
  I'm out of here! Nothing pisses me off so much as these kind of things !
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The conspiracy tree never seems to run out of nuts.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Do you think is a fake film, TK? Do you not believe there were many innocent people killed because of this stupid war?
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I wasn't talking about the 'film.' And innocent people die in every war, do they not? One of the chief reasons war is so terrible.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Especially unnecessary war! So what was the "conspiracy tree nuts" comment about?
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Try to follow the discussion
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Try to answer a question!
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ask a direct, serious question then
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  To you? Why would anyone ask anything important of you? This is a "direct serious" question.
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  There you go. Don't ever bother me with any whining over answering quesitons again.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It's a deal! You never answer questions anyway! You only criticize those that do! It will be great to ignore you as most do here. You can't seem to achieve a high profile score no matter which alias you use on this site, so you resort to being a troll instead. Poor baby!
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  A high profile score?! Wow, only the 'cool' kids have those!
  
  I look forward to your ignoring me.
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  William R. Wilsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  TK never runs out of a**holery.
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  Ohmaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Tantrum
  There are many things you can spout off about until your heart is content and you will never hear a thing from be about it however you obviously have no idea what you are talking about in regards to any of these things so I would respectfully request that the next time you think about spouting off about the American Military and its involvement in the world you should first get educated on the facts.
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  PrettyPantherposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry, Ohma, but Tantrum is not far off the mark. One can still respect and honor the men and women in our military and also recognize that they have been used by our government in ways that are simply wrong.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think we should tar and feather the idiot who started this war and send him to Iraq. Those responsible for putting the idiot in office deserve to take some responsibility too. But they won't.
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  PrettyPantherposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, isn't it amazing how many conservatives now say they didn't vote for Bush? Who did?
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I was just quoting Ohma from another thread referencing how she suggested Obama be treated. There is much more footage to be seen regarding these types of incidents. Remember how the football hero was elevated to hero status after being killed by his own troops?
  
  And for what? We spent money destroying Iraq, then we paid Cheney's company 50 times to much to build it back. Who ended up smelling like a rose?
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  William R. Wilsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You hit it right there. Profiteering.
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "I think we should tar and feather the idiot who started this war and send him to Iraq. "
  
  So much easier to be a little insignificant thing that is never faced with such difficult decisions, eh?
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  William R. Wilsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think it could be stated more respectfully than Tantrum did, but she speaks truth. The Vietnam war killed millions, and the escalation was sparked by a falsified incident (Gulf of Tonkin).
  
  And our involvement in Central America has been downright shameful.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What do you stand for? It must be great whatever it is to be better than America!
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It amazes me how ignorant you are of the facts of these Wars. I respectfully say to you: Educate yourself in the facts !
  
  Unbelievable, really !
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  Ohmaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Tantrum if one wishes to see conspiracy they will see it.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  This is not conspiracy. These are facts ! You've seen the video, don't you ?. You're so blind !
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  Ohmaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I saw armed people, I saw a man with an RPG kneel down at the corner of the building and attempt to aim at the chopper and I saw morons bring children into a battle zone.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So they are morons. And I suppose you think that's why they are dead !
  
  I totally lost all respect for you !
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  sabrebIadeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Tantrum:
  I'm just guessing that you have never seen my Conspiracy blog?
  I spend probably too much time researching this kind of thing.
  
  What disturbed me the most was the soldiers...OUR military laughing and joking as they took lives.
  
  And opening fire on unarmed civilains that were trying to pick up survivors.
  
  They were treating the whole thing like some big video game.
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  LegendaryHeroposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Unarmed insurgents aiding the enemy.
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  sabrebIadeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So all Iraqis are our enemies?
  Well then, let's just take off and nuke 'em from orbit.
  It's the only way to be sure.
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  LegendaryHeroposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Did I say that? If you are aiding the enemy then you are an enemy. Do you think that civilians would just drive right over to where a gun battle just ended and start picking up wounded insurgents?
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  sabrebIadeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The "enemy" they were aiding was a Reuters journalist.
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  Ohmaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Who was hanging out with armed insurgents.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If they were enemy combatants they would have been hiding from the chopper, not standing around waiting to be shot at. We gave a license to murder civilians, and they did. They thought it was funny to shoot a wounded unarmed man. It isn't as if the chopper was a silent onlooker, they knew it was there and didn't try to hide. Murder on a video game.
  
  Imagine if our civilians were shot while attempting to aid other wounded citizens. Murdered while trying to crawl away, it happened more than you think!
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  LegendaryHeroposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  How do we know that they even thought the chopper saw them? Or was even looking for them?
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Because Iraq had no helicopters. If they were bad guys, any chopper was the enemy. What were the children supposed to wear on their clothes?
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  Ohmaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Why were the children even there? who brought them there not the American Military thats for sure, and the only reason anyone was able to identify the children in the van was because after the fact they knew they were there.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You think no children live in Iraq? You've obviously never watched Fahrenheit 911, have you? Take a look at the burned and maimed children on the film, how the soldiers played "Burn MF Burn" while doing their duty.
  
  You would have egged the military on while they decimated the Native American population here, I suppose. My father landed on Omaha Beach on D-Day. He fought in the Battle of the Bulge and helped free the holocaust victims. I know true military heroes because I've had the privilege of meeting many. Yes, I consider myself patriotic despite your outlook on defending murder and greed.
  
  These types of incidents taint true American heroes with their laughter and begging to be allowed to kill the wounded. This may be your idea of patriotism, but it is not mine!
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  Ohmaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Randy Every American that puts there life in jeopardy to defend our country is a "True American Hero" the simple fact that you think otherwise is sad.
  As far as the video again you have never been in battle do you know how you would react? Killing children is not a part of the American agenda and those responsible for the death of children in war are the ones that put them in the danger zone. The morons in that van should have headed for the hills if they wanted to protect their children.
  Terrorists use civilians and especially children as Shields so they can scream and cry poor little us that bully hurt my baby.
  We did not, they brought them into that courtyard they hurt their babies.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  We put them into the danger zone, Ohma. No matter how you choose to phrase it, we were wrong. Iraq did not attack us on 911. If you cannot acknowledge this then we are wasting our time. We were the bad guys demanding the country turn over weapons they did not have. We knew this and attacked anyway. We screwed up!
  
  If the soldiers on this and other videos are indicative of the behavior of highly trained, experienced military personnel, then we have lost the battle already.
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "You've obviously never watched Fahrenheit 911, have you? "
  
  ......
  
  oh brother...
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Do you think everything on Moore's movie was fake? I do not depend on him for truth in journalism but I do know some of the videos were real. Have you watched the burned and injured children in the movie. Or do you think these were all fake?
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't watch any of that fat load's crap.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Why are you scared to watch it, TK? I hear the same response by many who watch Fox News. I suppose you are afraid you will be brainwashed by that "Fat load." Just like you, others refuse to just watch before making a statement as if they already know what the film shows. If you are so simple minded as to be affected by a "fat load" then I surely understand. If not, then your statement is garbage as usual.
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "Why are you scared to watch it? "
  
  Wow, there is some sharp, 3rd grade logic right there...
  
  Are you "scared" of everything you don't watch, genius? Beyond infantile.
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  LegendaryHeroposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That still doesn't mean that they knew that the helicopter saw them.
  
  Insurgents fight guerrilla warfare by trying to blend in with the people, they wouldn't just run and hide giving themselves away as the enemy.
  
  Only an idiot would bring his children into a war zone.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  We made the whole country a war zone. Only an idiot would put Bush back in for a second term after the misery and suffering he caused to Iraq and his own country. Why are they hiding this stuff if they are proud of their work?
  
  What even more terrible things wait to be brought to light? Would anything disturb you at all? Torture and murder doesn't seem to be so bad as long as we are the ones doing it, I suppose.
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  LegendaryHeroposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Because it is detrimental the Iraqi relations.
  
  Things do disturb me. Nothing worse would surprise me at all.
  
  I wish we didn't have to do things like torture, but we don't live in that kind of world, do we?
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No, we do not have to do torture! Iraq did nothing to us. We invaded a sovereign nation on a pack of lies to enrich the powers-that-be. As long as people make excuses for it there is no hope of change for the better.
  
  How many coincidences does it take for the smoke to make us realize there is a fire. Who benefited the most out of this war?
  Who said "we do not torture"? Who said "we are not heading for a recession, our economy is strong"? None of this was the truth! How many other lies were told about the reasons for war and the deaths of possibly millions?
  
  I care to know the truth, no matter if some want to call it unpatriotic or not. They are usually the ones who are responsible for putting the "Decider" into power but want no responsibility for it. I wish I were wrong!
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  LegendaryHeroposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  We are already in Iraq, its too late to do anything else without severe consequences. What do you propose we use to fight insurgents instead of torture?
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "We invaded a sovereign nation on a pack of lies to enrich the powers-that-be"
  
  No we didn't
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Did you see any WMDs TK? Did the oil pay for the war? What is your truth?
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Don't avoid the issue. You said "lies" and "to enrich" whomever. Both are things you cannot prove and therefore just an empty emotional refrain no matter how many times you repeat them.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So you are saying they told the truth and didn't profit from the war, TK?
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  William R. Wilsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The lies are pretty obvious. "We know he has WMD, and we know where they are"
  
  ...
  .....
  
  Right.
  
  The profiteering? Halliburton, KBR, and Blackwater spring to mind.
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Try again, genius. Are you honestly this incapable of rational thought?
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I assume you voted for the moron since you never answer any questions, TK. You like to criticize others but seldom answer any direct questions. Why are you afraid to watch things before you criticize them? This is the epitome of infantile behavior, TK.
  
  Whenever you disagree with me I always feel better about my stance on anything. It's almost like getting the seal of approval on HP. Thank you! You do indeed serve a useful purpose.
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  William R. Wilsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LOL. I think you figured it out!
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Please stop referring to Padrino as TK. It's confusing.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's because he/they are confused!
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think it's a collective...
  
  Like the Borg
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sort of an assborg?
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think there's a diagnosis for that -
  
  Ass Borger's syndrome.
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  LegendaryHeroposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If I recall the Borg where a superior group who were striving to reach perfection...
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, but their lack of human qualities like compassion and innovative thinking led to their ultimate demise....
  
  Just like the Republicans!
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  LegendaryHeroposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Resistance is futile.
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  " Why are you afraid to watch things before you criticize them? "
  
  I already addressed this inane and illogical 'question.' The fact that you persist with the childish 'inside joke' name calling also says a lot.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Addressed, not answered, as you usually do. By refusing to even watch before giving an opinion on the videos explains a lot about your statements.
  
  And why are you concerned about someones's particular martial arts training? Myself? Moto bu ha shito ru and kodo su ha shito ru karate along with kenpo and jujitsu for many years. I am ranked in Japan, unlike many other belt factories such as the American styles of Taekwondo and Karate. How about you, TK!
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  LegendaryHeroposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Journalists in Iraq are required to wear special jackets with big wording that let soldiers know that they are journalists.
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  LegendaryHeroposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I saw this earlier on ATS, I still don't know what to think of it.
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  JOE BARNETTposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  now you know what war is huh! when you see guys here having problems later in life . often times it's because their head clears and they realize what has happened. war is sad!!!!!!
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  rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  This is what happens when you have a mop up policing action run with military tactics. Who can blame the military for doing its job?
  
  The US does not belong there and will not correct anything until it leaves. Just ask the locals.
  
  Using the military to police the country is like usning a hammer to catch a fly. Wrong tool for the job. This has always been a political question being answered with a military solution.
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  LegendaryHeroposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If the US leaves then things will be even worse than when we invaded.
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  rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Worse for who? If you think we are solving the situation with our presence you are sadly mistaken.
  
  Just look at the recent events in Iraq where there is more violence harkening back times of 2005. They can't run an election because it is not a system that they developed. There is a religious cultural element that that has not been included and we refuse to acknowledge. Let them figure it out for themselves.
  
  If you consider Afghanistan and our placement of Karzai as the interim leader who seemingly stole an election, you begin to understand the distrust of the locals towards the US who have in the past been known to use Afghanistan as merely a puppet with their war with Russia. Recentlt Karzai has made rumblings of going it alone and joining forces with the Taliban. Some progress huh?
  
  We need to just leave and monitor developments from a distance and when terrorism is suspected to be mounting an attack we need to be swift and strong with our response.
  
  By the way letting Israel fend for itself can't hurt our credibility either.
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  LegendaryHeroposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Worse for the Iraqis. There will be civil war without us. Shia vs. Sunni.
  
  Turkey seems to do just fine and its Muslim.
  
  Isn't that what we did in the first place? How do you propose we do this? It's not practical.
  
  Yes it will. If the enemies of Israel see that we stopped supporting them what do you think they will do? Just sit there and go "Oh that's nice."? No. Israel and its enemies will let loose the dogs of war most likely resulting in Israel using its nuclear weapons.
  
  And who do you think will get blamed for that? The US for stopping its support of Israel.
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  rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Worse for the Iraqis. There will be civil war without us. Shia vs. Sunni.
  
  Maybe it will be worse for the Iraqis in the short term which we brought on but they will find their own government if left to their own way. There already has been and it is ongoing. The bombings have never stopped and the religious rhetoric will not cease because we want them too. They want a theocracy based government and we keep sticking our nose in the way.
  
  Turkey seems to do just fine and its Muslim.
  
  You fail to distinguish the difference between religious and cultural preferences when you make a statement like that. Its' kind of like saying that there is no reason why the Irish protestants and Catholics should war with each other for the many years that they did. After all they were all Christians, right?
  
  Isn't that what we did in the first place? How do you propose we do this? It's not practical.
  
  Not sure what you mean "Isn't that what we did in the first place?" To monitor the terrorists and their activities is not that difficult as they are always seeking out contacts and networking outside the country and we watch this like a hawk. While it is true it is far easier to watch them up close and through restricting their activities in country, they still move around outside the country such as Pakistan to do and carry out their dirt.
  
  Yes it will. If the enemies of Israel see that we stopped supporting them what do you think they will do? Just sit there and go "Oh that's nice."? No. Israel and its enemies will let loose the dogs of war most likely resulting in Israel using its nuclear weapons.
  
  I think it depends what Israel will do that is of more importance. They will be forced to come to the peace process with some conviction and may have to make a few concessions they clearly do not wish to do with "Big Brother" watching their back. Many have said that Israel can take care of itself just fine. I think we should butt out and let "Them" settle it. If Israel chooses to use its' nuclear weapons then they will have to deal with the fallout figuratively and quite literally.
  
  And who do you think will get blamed for that? The US for stopping its support of Israel.
  
  Blamed for their choices in reaction to their own problems. Really? That is like blaming one for anothers choice to commit murder because they had no choice. Where does the responsibility lie in that scenario?
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Ohmaposted 14 years ago
I am not going to respond to this sabre and yes I watched the whole thing. I am interested in other's opinions so i will bump it back up.
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William R. Wilsonposted 14 years ago
This is the reality of war. GW Bush didn't only kill nearly 6000 young American men, but somewhere between 100,000 - 1 million innocent Iraqis have also died.

How 'bout that?

Yet Bush is regarded as a hero for starting this war - while Obama is somehow a dictator because he passed a healthcare reform bill?

Yeah.
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  Padrinoposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Bush didn't kill anybody! Do you have some knowledge of his murdering someone that the rest of us haven't heard about? If so could you please present the evidence?
  
  The only politician I know of that killed someone and got away with it was Ted Kennedy.
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  William R. Wilsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Go away.
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  Padrinoposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What I thought, just typing to see your words in print, think I'll stay!
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Ohmaposted 14 years ago
Korea, Vietnam, and the Gulf war were police actions done at the behest of the United Nations. Afghanistan and Iraq are in response to Americans Being attacked on American soil. Has everyone forgotten 911.
Please!
My Husband Is a disabled veteran. He was injured during the Vietnam conflict and I know why he was there.
As far as Afghanistan and Iraq if they would quit supporting and hiding the terrorist that attacked our private citizens we would leave them alone. Lets not forget we were attacked not the other way around.
As far as the video the people responsible for the death of those children are the morons that brought them into a battle zone.
Why is it that all you military hating people not understand these are the people that protect and provide the freedom you enjoy so much.
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  William R. Wilsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I have no disrespect for the men who serve.
  
  My problem is with those who put them into these situations.
  
  I come from a long line of veterans - I tried to sign up after 9/11 but couldn't get in due to health reasons.
  
  Criticizing the actions of the military is not the same as criticizing the men and women in the military - they are just doing a very dangerous job.
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  PrettyPantherposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  To acknowledge that the U.S. military has been dishonestly used by our government to further their ends for purposes not explicitly stated is not equivalent to hating the military. It is wrong for you to accuse those who recognize that of hating the military. Everything is not black and white.
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  Ohmaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So what is next we treat the soldiers coming home from Iraq and Afghanistan the same way the thoughtless and ungrateful idiots treated returning Vietnam Vets.
  Really a great incentive for people to want to stand up and defend this country.
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  PrettyPantherposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Of course not. No one has suggested that. Why would you?
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  LegendaryHeroposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Including the freedom to criticism as they wish.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Iraq did not do 911, Ohma. I'm sorry your husband was injured, but that war was crazy too. We just proved we learned nothing from that stupid war. No WMDs, the oil did not pay for the war unless you mean we paid for it by higher gas prices to, guess who?
  
  You are the one who needs history lessons, Ohma!
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  All this statements only shows how ignorant you are of the facts.
  Begining from 9/11 to believing children where taken to that place in the video by 'morons'! How can you be so disrespectful ?
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  Ohmaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  There is no disrespect here would you have taken your child into that area?
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  Ohmaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Tantrum why did you bypass this post?
  I am truly sorry that those kids died but it is a fact that adults they trusted put them in danger. I do not care who was shooting who my kids will not be anywhere near it and I suspect that you would be the same.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I didn't bypassed it.
  You said those people were morons. And that is so rude, I can't believe a sensible human being could say that!
  
  I don't have anything to say to you.
  
  Anything that I could say, would be too rude.
  And even you don't believe it, I have an education.
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  Ohmaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  This is truly laughable coming from the person who posts so many rude comments to anyone that thinks differently than she does.
  And by the way since you are talking about disrespect when have you ever shown respect for anyone?
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I show respect all the time. To those who deserve it.
  And I have never called dead people, morons
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  Ohmaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  With as much respect as I can manage at the moment
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I can't care less what you say.
  It seems you don't have any respect for dead people.
  
  And as I have said, I lost all respect for you.
  
  So go ahead. And say whatever. You're the one that is displaying disrespect. Not me.
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  Ohmaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ookkkk! Tantrum we are at war. people die in war it is sad but it is a sad fact.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes! And they are all morons, as you said.
  What would you say if someone labels your dead soldiers as morons ?
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Just a sad fact of war, too bad.
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  Ohmaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Re read my post I labeled the people who knowingly drove there children into an active battle zone as morons not the dead insurgents.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It wasn't active at the time of the murders!
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  Ohmaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Did we watch the same video less than 2 minutes had passed from the time of the initial shooting until that car drove up.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Then we started shooting civilians. No one was shooting at the helicopter nor appeared to be shooting at any one when the chopper opened fire. Besides this incident, do we know these same shooters didn't do this regularly? It would be covered up and defended just as it is done here by you.
  
  And if you watch NBC news you would know there were absolutely no connections between Ben Ladin and Saddam. No WMDs, no mobile chemical labs either. Certainly you remember those drawings of the mobile labs which were made up by the administration cronies to push for the war.
  
  You fell for it, didn't you? So did I. I never thought I would be so disgusted by an American leader. But those who make excuses for murder and corruption are just as bad when they turn their heads to keep from seeing the truth. Just cover it up, perhaps it won't happen again. Your kind assure that it will!
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  Ohmaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So we can only fight a war by firing only if fired upon?
  No they did not shoot at the chopper but we also did not see why the chopper was there in the first place. we did see that it we had ground forces very near the vicinity and although I do not know for sure I choose to believe that the choppers where there to protect the ground forces.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You seem to "choose to believe" whatever makes you feel better about the incident. I lost friends in the Vietnam war. I cannot tell you why they died or what we accomplished with their dying. Perhaps with your husband being involved you can tell me what we achieved because of his duty to our country.
  
  Over 50,000 fine young men died fighting that stupid war, most with no choice for doing so. So, tell me Ohma, what did they die for? We lost that war and along with it, millions of descendants of those fine young men in the form of unborn children and grandchildren.
  
  Do you have any idea how many children and civilians we killed for that lost cause? No matter, it's just a sad fact of life...or death, depending on which end of the gun you are on.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Do you remember the wedding party where so many people, including the bride, was killed by an drone? It's like a video game except these are real innocent people being murdered by a super power for their oil. Tantrum is correct, you probably get your "truth" from Fox News because it sure isn't from reality and factual sources.
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  Ohmaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  I had not heard about that and as a matter of fact the only news I watch is NBC.
  There is a large difference between a wedding party and a court yard that had just been blown to pieces by opposing forces. Those kids should not have been any where near there.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Can you say this for the other thousands of children murdered and burned? Where were they to go? This city was their home. When did we start killing wounded civilians who are merely trying to crawl away or trying help others who have been seriously injured. Damn this makes me proud to be an American.
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Ohmaposted 14 years ago
Because every time someone says our military shouldn't be here or there that is exactly what they said during Vietnam.
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  PrettyPantherposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That was a long time ago, and people have learned to separate the actions of our people in the military from the actions of our government. And let me just say that healing cannot begin until the truth, the whole truth, is acknowledged. That includes the bad as well as the good.
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  Crazdwriterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I hate to say it PrettyPanther but no people have not learned to separate the actions of the people in the military from the actions of our government...do you not hear about the stupid jerks who go to military funerals with signs saying things like "God Hates you"? it is still going on
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  PrettyPantherposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Okay, but you have to admit that it is not widespread like it was during the 60s. Would you rather the truth be covered up? Our soldiers are human and they make mistakes, but our government shouldn't send them into unnecessary wars, either.
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  Ohmaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  This is the only history Americans should be thinking about when it comes to "Unnecessary Wars" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDh_pvv1tUM
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  Crazdwriterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm afraid to say it but 9/11 did happen...people attacked the US and want the US people dead...that is not a threat that many take lightly. And the military men and women know why they are there and they proudly fight for us, giving up their lives in order to keep us safe from any more attacks.
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  Ohmaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thank-You Crazd, I am not military but many of my family are and right now I have 2 nephews in Iraq. We (my family) appreciate your support of Our American Troops.
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  PrettyPantherposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, it happened. I don't take it lightly, either.
  
  Does it bother you at all that Osama bin Laden is still alive and free while hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, who had nothing to do with 9/11, are dead?
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  Ohmaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Have you forgotten that Saddam Hussein supported Bin Laden or that many of his terrorists were housed and trained in Iraq?
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  PrettyPantherposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well, we obviously don't agree on the facts. Without agreement on the facts, there can be no productive discussion. I'll just leave it at that.
  
  Please remember that accusing people who don't believe our government's stated motivations are always true, or who acknowledge that our military men and women are human and make mistakes, of hating the military, is simply wrong. Just like you, I have loved ones who have served and are serving now. Some of them have served so high up that they actually know the true motives of our government, and they are not what you may think. So, please refrain from accusing people who disagree with you of hating the military. It is a cheap and easy way out of a difficult discussion and I will call you on it every time, as I have called others on it.
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  Crazdwriterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes it does bother me actually...I hope that they do find him
  
  I want the war to end just as much as the next guy. I want those who are suffering HERE the families and the friends of the military to stop suffering from the strain of being in a long distance relationship/marriage. I know first hand how much it hurts and I want that hurt to go away. I want the death and killing to go away. but us bickering and arguing isn't going to end the war. blaming the president isn't going to stop it any faster. So why fight? there is no point! All we can do is hope together that the killing and the war ends soon and that the military men and women return safely to their loved ones.
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  PrettyPantherposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  100% agree with you.
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  Crazdwriterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry Sabe gonna hijack just for a minute. PrettyPanther who is that CUTE kitty that is in your picture?
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  PrettyPantherposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry, left the thread last night to go to bed.
  
  That's our sweet little cat, Storm. She's tiny for her age, only about 6 pounds, but a bundle of energy and sweetness. Thanks for asking.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, 911 happened, but we attacked the wrong country because of lies told about Iraq by the Bush administration. We were also involved in Viet Nam long before it was made a military crusade.
  
  As long as people make excuses for murder and greed nothing will change. There will always be those who will excuse any military atrocity no matter how terrible it is. They consider this patriotism, but it's not!
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  LegendaryHeroposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The Westboro Baptist Church. I hate those people, you know they're planning on coming to Virginia Tech on Friday to protest that the April 16th shootings were God's will?
  
  If anybody deserves to burn in Hell for all eternity its them.
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  Crazdwriterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And virginia Tech is allowing them? I know freedom aof speech and all but still the Admin can still put their foot down. It's going to get nasty there... I hope you'll be safe LH!
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  LegendaryHeroposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think that they are actually protesting just off campus. There's supposed to be an organized student counter-protest going on, though I don't know if they are going to be doing it by the WBC or not.
  
  Thanks , but I'll fine, I'm just going to try avoid the whole protest thing.
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  Crazdwriterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well if you hear any fights break out LH RUN THE OTHER WAY AND RUN FAST
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  LegendaryHeroposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh definitely
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  Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And they were right.
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sabrebIadeposted 14 years ago
Did you watch the video?
Those guys were strolling around in plain sight while an Apache was circling them.
If they were insurgents...wouldn't they have maybe..oh I dont know...opened fire?
Or took cover?
SOMETHING aggressive?
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  LegendaryHeroposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Didn't you see the RPG and them taking cover in the video?
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  sabrebIadeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No...I saw a camera man with a telephoto lenses kneeling down.
  And no analysis that I have seen of that video included anything about anyone aiming anything at the copter.
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  LegendaryHeroposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's what you saw. Now imagine trying to see that on a six inch screen inside of a hot helicopter where you are stressed because you could be fired upon at any moment.
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  Ohmaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  How aggressive where the people in The World Trade Center?
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  sabrebIadeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You mean the ones the guys from Saudi Arabia blew up?
  All the hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, with the exception of Fayez Banihammad, who was from the United Arab Emirates.
  Why aren't we kicking the crap out of the Saudis?
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  Ohmaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDh_pvv1tUM
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  sabrebIadeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  There were a total of 2,995 deaths, including the 19 hijackers and 2,976 victims on 9-11.
  We have killed over 100,000 Iraqis so far.
  Even by the strictest eye for an eye Biblical codes...arent we about even now?
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  Ohmaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  We will be even when Bin Laden is confirmed dead and anyone who has aided his war on Americans along with him. We are not the bad guys here they attacked us.
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  sabrebIadeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I have no problem with them capping Bin Laden.
  I just think that like Jessie Ventura said, grab a SEAL team, send em in and have them take him out.
  I have no doubt a special forces team with free reign could find and terminate him with extreme prejudice.
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That is too easy and simple a thing to say.
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Ohmaposted 14 years ago
PP I am not looking for a cheap and easy way out of anything. I see a black kettle and I call it black plain and simple. I know that it is not politically correct to remind people that we are in this war for a reason and since there is no draft in place every man and women fighting over there believes they should be there, and that my friend is good enough for me.

And as far as
"Some of them have served so high up that they actually know the true motives of our government, and they are not what you may think."
Any military officer in such a high position who shares military and government information with non-military personnel is.. well I just will not go there.
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  PrettyPantherposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No information has been shared, other than motivations are not what they appear to be. Hardly giving up of secrets.
  
  And, what I was referring to as cheap and easy is the accusation that those who disagree with our government's policies with regard to war hate the military. Or, those who acknowledge that our military personnel sometimes screw up hate the military. Stop saying that, because it's not true and it's insulting to a lot of good people, INCLUDING some who are in the military.
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sneakorocksolidposted 14 years ago
When you fight satanist a child is just a tool. Any one here that believes Americans are bloodthirsty baby killers is not worth talking to. When you're ready to strap it on for the people of another country and your own and your opponents don't wear uniforms(forget the geneva convention)the job is a hundred times more difficult.

If you review the battles in Vietnam where uniformed regulars fought uniformed regulars there was never any doubt we beat them everytime and beat them badly! There was also very little colateral damage so, before you bad mouth are young men and women they didn't pick their enemy their enemy picked us.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What did we achieve in that war?
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Nothing. We weren't allowed to win and pursue any of our objectives. We weren't allowed to fight until we were shot at and we got permission to fight back. That war was solely the responsibility of the liberal press and a lot of good people died because morons decided they knew what was best. These Americans were and are traitors. Walter Cronkite and Jane Fonda should have been imprisoned for being traitors!
  
  You can argue politics all you want but when our kids go to war you need to support them because they do they're duty! They believe your rights are worth fighting for! Anyone says anything to jeopardize their safety is a coward and a traitor and should be in jail.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No, a person who blindly follows his government into an unjust war is the real traitor. Cronkite had much to do with ending that war.
  
  God bless him.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well I guess you know how I feel about you.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, and I sleep better at night knowing it.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It easy to sleep without a conscience.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Pissing off dimwits should affect my conscience?
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "What did we achieve in that war?"
  
  "Was there a monolithic communist menace in SE Asia? Of course not."
  
  That's what
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Ohmaposted 14 years ago
Randy I respect you and many others that are posting here. It is not my desire to argue but I do disagree. The weapons you speak of would not have been a problem if Hussein had done his part in complying with the United Nations. The fact that he stone walled every attempt made to investigate made him look criminal. It was only after the UN agreed to take this action that the supposed truth of the non-existent weapons came out.

I work in a C-store and if someone comes into my store and implies that they have a weapon they go to jail for armed robbery whether they had a weapon or not.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Saddam said he did not have the weapons. Our fantastic inspectors found nothing there. We give Israel nuclear weapons and bitch when Saddam made crappy short shelf life chemical weapons with no way to deliver them to the enemy. He had no planes to use or other means to attack us.
  
  As long as you defend this corruption you are no better than those who profit from these wars. They play on the sympathies of those who have loved ones fighting their battles of power and profit.
  No one wants to be injured or have a loved one killed in a fight which involves corruption. So, we tend to take the high road because we can't stand a useless sacrifice by our people. But even Vietnam's terrible lesson was not heeded. We learned nothing!
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  Ohmaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  All of which was discovered after he spent a long time sneaking around and refusing to allow an honest search by the UN inspectors. The point being if you imply that you are a criminal do not be surprised when people treat you as such.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  We supported him against Iran for many years, Ohma. He used the lies of having WMDs to keep others from attacking him when he was vulnerable. He had no choice.
  
  We would be much better off still arguing with him and having millions still alive and our economy in better shape. Or do you disagree?
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  Ohmaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I will agree that this war and Bush's politics have seriously damaged our economy.
  Notice I did say Bush I do not blame our failing economy on Obama. He inherited a mess from the door. I do not yet know whether he has done anything to help it only time will tell, but Bush defiantly screwed it up.
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Crazdwriterposted 14 years ago
And let me ask you guys this: Does arguing amongst ourselves do anything positevely for the war? Is it going to end it magiaclly by bickering? What is the point of arguing over something that is already happening. it isn't going to do anything except make us mad at one another when we should be on each other's side in just hoping and praying that the war ends soon and that the military men and women come home safely to their loved ones.

so why argue?
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not this war, it seems, CW. But perhaps if we keep quiet enough about this stuff then we can repeat it over and over while the patriotism of the citizens allows it to continue. Learn nothing by our past, seems to be the rule for those with the most patriotism. Those of us who aren't afraid to speak out against murder and corruption are always called "America Haters" no matter which war we are in.
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  Crazdwriterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Randy that isn't the point..the point is that arguing amongst ourselves isn't going to solve anything so why can't we just get along, stop the fighting, and talk civilized? especially talk about other things that aren't so negative?
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The only one, who's not being civilized here is Ohma, who's been so disrespectful as to say the people killed were morons.
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cosetteposted 14 years ago
you know, it's easy for civilians to sit here and gasp all horrified at these things, and the 'shooting of unarmed journalists' and in some cases, 'pregnant women'...well you know what? hindsight is 20/20.

you're not over there! you're not immersed in a hostile land where anyone can be a threat and you have but seconds to think. they are even strapping IEDs on pregnant women and children. you think these soldiers enjoy what they have to go through? it's easy to view one video clip and not only condemn them but our country. and really anyone who would go so far as to allude that 9/11 was a coverup of some sort is just being a jerk. i am getting tired of people using unfortunate incidents like this to trash my country and our military. my nephew is about to go to boot camp where he is going to train for a year as an IED Technician, then he will most likely be sent to Afghanistan where he will be doing some of the deadliest work in the deadliest country on the planet. why don't you show a little respect and quit calling SOLDIERS 'murderers'...
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Very well said!
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  cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  thank you very much. it's very easy for people to sit at a keyboard and condemn others for doing a very difficult job. people who never picked up an M-16, i might add.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I only called the murdering soldiers murderers. If your nephew murders civilians he is a murderer. If he kills enemy soldiers he is a soldier. There is a difference in the two, too bad you do not see it. Do you honestly think this was an isolated incident?
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Tell me how you know who is a soldier who isn't? How many Americans do think have died because they hesitated? Well I want our kids to protect themselves, period! If it's hot-zone I want them to shoot first and sort it out later.
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Ohmaposted 14 years ago
Randy I seriously do not mean to be disrespectful of anyones death, life or opinion. I am sorry that we will not be able to ever see so many things the same way.
I am sorry that you had friends that died in Vietnam so did I. Their deaths where tragic.
Choosing to believe what I do is no different than you choosing to believe what you believe. We do not agree and I think it would be best if we agreed to leave this thread and hopefully find something that we can agree on another time.
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Will Apseposted 14 years ago
I don't believe US policy makers are evil or driven by greed- though war profiteers feed big time on the edges of any conflict.

The problem with US policy makers (and the policy makers of most nations) is that so often they get lost in their own constructions of reality.

The big fear that drove the Vietnam War was that country after country would fall to communism if Vietnam fell. They called it the domino theory.

What happened after Vietnam fell? Was there a monolithic communist menace in SE Asia? Of course not. Vietnam was obliged to fight a war against the Khmer Rouge and China to preserve the independence it had won from French colonial rule and US interference. There was never a 'red tide' that would engulf the region just a struggle for self determination.

That US miscalculation cost a lot of lives and money just as the Iraq War (and WMD miscalculation) has cost a lot of lives and money.
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sabrebIadeposted 14 years ago
BTW...the US military has said the "insurgents" were unarmed.
So there were no AK-47s or RPGs.
If you see any, you are doing better than the military film experts that analyzed the footage.

"A military investigation later concluded that what was thought to be an RPG was really a long-range photography lens; likewise, the camera looked like an AK-47."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_iraq_shooting

So no..the people on the ground did not aim or fire any weapons at that Apache, so says our own Military.
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  Poppa Bluesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And the US are the only ones guilty of killing innocents? I could list all the acts of terrorism that go on every day, day after day where innocent people are TARGETED, not killed accidentally.
  
  But I'm not here to justify the killing of innocents by America. No America has taken on the role of protecting the commercial and security interests of nations around the globe, including countries that are hostile to America as well as those that are ambivalent. I'll bet you're country benefits from the security in the Straights of Hormuz!
  
  Frankly, I'm tired of seeing MY tax money spent protecting the interests of foreigners that could care less about what we're doing or about our young people dieing. I'm all for bringing them all home and extending the collective middle finger to the rest of the world that has benefited from our sacrifice. Good luck funding your own armies and protecting your own interests!
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  Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Amen, Poppa. Check out the book and movie (YouTube) "War Made Easy." It tells the whole sad story of the unnecessary wars we've started in the past half-century.
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sabrebIadeposted 14 years ago
So the Apache crew laughing and joking and and begging for the wounded guy crawling on the ground to pick up a gun didn't bother anyone?

You know...I always thought "Kill 'em all let God sort 'em out" was just a slogan on a red-neck T-shirt.

Now I see it is much more.

When did America lose it's compassion?
When did we quit being the good guys?
If we lower ourselves to "their" level, then we are no better than "them".

I guess all that time I spent in martial arts and hanging out with SEALS, Rangers and some Marines gave me a distorted view of honor.
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  cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  again, stressful situations make people say and do all sorts of things that, to an untrained OBSERVER, may appear strange. i don't see refraining from judgment of these soldiers as 'losing my compassion' or 'lowering myself to their level'. i wasn't there. you weren't there. until we are, we have no right to call them 'redneck' or 'murderers'. you actually think they are having a party over there, shooting up 'hadjis' for laughs?
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Which martial arts?
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sabrebIadeposted 14 years ago
Cosette darlin, you know I love you, but without going into too much detail...I am hardly an untrained OBSEVRVER.
I think we should just agree to disagree here.
Like Crazed said earlier, I cant really see where this is helping anyone.
I just want those men and women home so they will not be put in a situation like that again.
Ever.
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  cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  i know sabre. i agree i want them home too.
  
  i just dont think we can make judgments, as we are not there. those soldiers live with death and danger every waking moment. everything is a threat. and it has to be that way or they die. that's all. (and i luv u too, you know)
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  sabrebIadeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And obviously I cannot spell OBSERVER...
  Jeez!
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  LegendaryHeroposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh, so you've been in a high-stress war zone before, not knowing whether you will kill or be killed?
  
  For some reason I highly doubt that.
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  sabrebIadeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You are entitled to your own opinion.
  But since you know nothing about me, that would be speculation instead of opinion I guess.
  Either way, it's yours.
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  LegendaryHeroposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I know you are a women and that is enough. Women are not allowed into combat zones.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Wow!
  
  That is really, really...
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  Padrinoposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Really?
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sometimes, there are no words to adequately express the thought.
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  sabrebIadeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah Ron I agree...I think I'll let it go at that.
  MAYBE I should get back in the kitchen.
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  LegendaryHeroposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What?
  
  Women in the United States military are not allowed into combat.
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  Poppa Bluesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It was just on the news the other night that women were being deployed in operations in Iraq because of the culture there, the women can go where the men can't, so yes, some women have taken fire.
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  LegendaryHeroposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It's a moot point now after her last post.
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  LegendaryHeroposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Right?
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No, that can't be it.
  
  Something along the lines of full of crap to the 100th power.
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  LegendaryHeroposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Deleted - Forums annoyance got the better of me.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No. Just like yours !
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  LegendaryHeroposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  How clever...
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Stick around kid and you may one day be called clever by someone!
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  LegendaryHeroposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  One can only hope.
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "You are entitled to your own opinion.
  But since you know nothing about me, that would be speculation instead of opinion I guess."
  
  So, what's the answer?
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Wayne Orvisburgposted 14 years ago
I watched this video last night. As a father, an American, and a former Marine, I was very disturbed. However, I tried to look at it as open minded as possible. Looking at the video, those cameras could have been mistaken for weapons. I don't know how big their screens are, but probably not as big as our monitors. Plus, the idea of an RPG is not good for a pilot. But, the people that pulled up in the van were trying to help. They obviously had no weapons and I NEVER saw one pick up something resembling a weapon on that video.

Who says war is so much more humane now than the old days when 2 armies amassed on a field and fought to the last man standing? At least children wouldn't be involved that way.
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Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years ago
The servicemen were in a terrible position and had to make a quick decision whether to shoot or to endanger their comrades by not shooting.

The fact that they were put in that position based on a series of lies makes the incident all the more tragic.
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "based on a series of lies "
  
  You have no proof of that no matter how many times you repeat it.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It has been proven to the satisfaction of all but the furthest fringes of the right.
  
  The fact that you don't accept it is further evidence of it's validity.
  
  No WMD, even though you people said there were.
  
  No yellow-cake even though you people said there was.
  
  No connection to 9-11, even though you people tried to create one.
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sabrebIadeposted 14 years ago
You know, there are neighborhoods in the US that will get you killed just as fast as in Iraq.
True a 38 snubnose may not be as flashy as a RPG, but you're just as dead if you get hit.
Try running into 5 or 6 gang bangers and deciding if they have 9mm's or cellphones in their pockets.
Or being in a bar frequented by bikers and seeing someone reach under the bar....
Are they coming out with a bottle, or a shotgun?
It's all perspective.
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  LegendaryHeroposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So you haven't been in a war zone and therefore are an untrained observer when it comes to being in a helicopter and killing others?
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Deborah Sextonposted 14 years ago
And how many here cared to view the beheadings of innocent Americans who died slowly with a dull knife?
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I saw these beheadings and do not want our soldiers compared to those who took part in these executions. Killing innocent people is wrong whether it is us or them doing the murdering. The innocent are still dead.
  
  Killing the innocent, on what equates to a video game and laughing throughout the process, does not make us look any better than the terrorists we are supposed to be fighting.
  
  Give me a reason why so many of our soldiers and Iraqi citizens had to die. Why would we not be better off still arguing with Saddam with all of those human beings still alive and uninjured!
  
  By taking up for obviously sloppy military operations will only mean more of the same in future actions. How does this help our standing in the world?
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  LegendaryHeroposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Did the soldiers know that they were innocent at the time though?
  
  Extreme stress does strange things to people.
  
  I can't argue with that. I wish the wars had not been started at all. However they have been started and I believe that one must finish what one starts.
  
  It doesn't, but this is not a popularity contest.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Those killed were not firing on, or attempting to shoot or harm anyone. Killing them without knowing they were combatants does not make me have any sympathy for the helicopter gunners. The gunner was begging permission to finish off a wounded innocent man attempting to crawl away.
  
  Those who were trying to help those wrongfully attacked were also killed. Would you take up for those who killed our medics giving aid to our wounded soldiers? One simply cannot explain away obvious sloppy military operations because it is our guys doing them. This message does neither us nor the Iraqi people any good as far as winning hearts and minds of those we wrongfully attacked. Wrong is wrong and the dead are still dead.
  
  This is a direct result of faulty leadership and bad military choices. By condoning these acts we slip down to the level of those we criticize and detest.
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  EmpressFelicityposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well said.
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  LegendaryHeroposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  They believed they saw weapons. If you saw an enemy with a weapon wouldn't you shoot first rather than waiting to be shot at? And like I said, stress does strange things to people. Put in that kind of environment I'm willing to bet that most people would finish off what they perceive as the enemy.
  
  In their eyes, these were more enemies aiding the enemy. This is Iraq in 2007 when things were still extremely bad. The men who came to aid them were in an unmarked van, a bongo truck, which the insurgents had been using to transport men, arms, explosives, and other equipment around.
  
  Its easy to criticize in hindsight.
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Poppa Bluesposted 14 years ago
I didn't see the video but I heard the audio and what is clear is that for these soldiers it was another "day at the office". There were shots fired and a spotter saw weapons. All this was confirmed through the communications and permission to engage was requested and granted.

It turned out to be a horrible mistake, but from what I can tell and what the military has ruled is that none of the soldiers acted improperly. Now it may be there was an effort to hide the mistake from the public, and of course that is wrong and shouldn't have happened.

War is a dirty business. You can't carry it out without killing innocent people. War should ba a last resort and only executed in defense of the nation.
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tantrumposted 14 years ago
You say

'They believed they saw weapons.'

Really ? As much as America believed there were hidden missiles in Irak !

LOL what a joke!

And you're still coming for more?

You must be a masochist !
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  LegendaryHeroposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If you actually watched the video you would have heard that they thought they saw weapons, they talked about Ak-47s and RPGs.
  
  What the hell?! Do you think I "get it off" from seeing people die?!
  
  Do you think that I enjoy it? That I want people to die? That I wanted these goddamn wars?
  
  No I don't.
  
  What is your problem? This is the second time that you have gone and insulted me and then believed that everything is alright just by saying "LOL" at the end of the sentence.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I watched the video.
  Do you know the word ' lying'?
  
  Did you see how they laughed while killing all those people?
  Pleeaassee !
  Don't be so naive!
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  LegendaryHeroposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You think they wanted to kill those people? They thought they were the enemy.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  you're still insulting my intelligence.
  
  And yours as well.
  
  There's something called 'brains'
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  LegendaryHeroposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't believe those men purposely killed innocents. I believe that they thought they were the enemy.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry! I can't agree with you. Let be it !
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  LegendaryHeroposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's perfectly fine. Agree to disagree til the end of time.
  
  Like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kpRzbbl8G0
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Poppa Bluesposted 14 years ago
In Saddam's memoir he revealed how he wanted Iran to think that Iraq was developing nuclear weapons. This is why he stalled the UN inspectors and refused them all of the access they asked for. This is why America went to war, rightly or wrongly, but the war would never have taken place if Saddam was more cooperative.

What you believe is obviously up to you. We weren't there when those soldiers thought they saw weapons, but it's clear on the audio that is what they thought.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I agree. If you point a hairbrush at a policemen from inside your pocket..the police sees it as a threat and they shoot.
  
  How much more those fighting a war and seeing death every day.
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tantrumposted 14 years ago
And where did I insulted you ?
show me !

You're insulting my intelligence.
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  LegendaryHeroposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "Yours is very low by the way you comment on some threads LOL"
  http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/40329#post934549
  
  "You must be a masochist !"
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I never said I wasn't! LOL
  
  Anyway, I didn't find any proof of that on that thread !
  
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  LegendaryHeroposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry, that masochist thing was meant to be a quote from you. I wasn't calling you one and I'm sorry if it appeared that way.
  
  Proof of IQ on that thread? I never put my IQ on it.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I never put mine either
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  LegendaryHeroposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What's your point?
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Padrinoposted 14 years ago
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/04 … ing-video/

Found this
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  LegendaryHeroposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Very interesting.
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Falsor Wingposted 14 years ago
Was this link to the video of an Apache blowing up some journalists? I don't mean to sound callus but there men with AKs and an RPG in the group. This sort of thing is inevitable given the circumstances.
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  LegendaryHeroposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, it is that video.
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Ralph Deedsposted 14 years ago
Psychologists Explain Iraq Airstrike Video
By BENEDICT CAREY
Published: April 7, 2010

The sight of human beings, most of them unarmed, being gunned down from above is jarring enough.

Notes from Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq and other areas of conflict in the post-9/11 era.

At War Blog: Reaction on Military Blogs to the Wikileaks Video (April 7, 2010)
Video Shows U.S. Killing of Reuters Employees (April 6, 2010)
Iraq Video Brings Notice to a Web Site (April 7, 2010) Readers' But for many people who watched the video of a 2007 assault by an Army Apache helicopter in Baghdad, released Monday by WikiLeaks.org, the most disturbing detail was the cockpit chatter. The soldiers joked, chuckled and jeered as they shot people in the street, including a Reuters photographer and a driver, believing them to be insurgents.

“Look at those dead bastards,” one said. “Nice,” another responded.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/08/world … amp;emc=th
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LegendaryHeroposted 14 years ago
Something I discovered

http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/201889.php
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