This weekend Henry Paulson, Ben Bernanke, and Congress are going to hammer out a way for the US to buy up the bad mortgage debt that is causing turmoil in the markets. The most conservative estimate of the cost of doing this is $500 billion and it could easily run into the trillions of dollars. We are supposed to be relieved (Wall Street was today) because the "alternative is much worse," according to Paulson.
So, no money for health care, no money so kids can go to college, no money to help beleaguered cities, no money to repair infrastructure, but half a trillion to bailout greedy, sloppy Wall Street? No problem!
Has anyone really considered what the effect of this is going to be over the long haul? Where are the arrests? Where are the demands for accountability? What's with this, oh no, the markets are all screwed up, here, the taxpayers will fix it! I don't remember anyone asking me if this was something I wanted to do, and the last I checked, I was a taxpayer.
I think this is really, really bad. I mean, this is so FUBAR it is beyond comprehension.
What do you think? Me, it pisses me off.
Oh, don't worry Pam, this will come. A bit later. I told you already on one of your hubs - YOU and me will be made responsible for this... Nobody likes naysayers, espesially when they were right...
Misha, that's what I'm afraid of. Do you think it's too paranoid to have an exit plan? I don't, but it doesn't work for me if it doesn't include my whole family. My fear is that we'll wait too long and I'll just disappear. You won't see me on HubPages because I'll be in Gitmo.
I know that probably sounds nuts to a lot of you. I'm just saying out loud what I know lots of people are thinking.
Yes friend this is really bad. These fincial crises will efect a lot on the coming generation. As u have told no no college, if there is no college for the coming geeration then how can they be educated and develop them selves what about their meal and breads. These econmic conditions and financial crices are not a good sign for the coming generation.
This is getting to be a regular thing. A mafia bust out. Maybe remember the saving&loan debacle of the 80s.
Same deal - the republicans deregulate - the scam artists got rich - the banks went bust, and the US tax payer bailed them out. It was called the Resolution Trust Corp then and it will be it will be called the same again.
Except this time it will be exponentially bigger. The size of this is impossible to exaggerate.
This is just surreal, and I reckon it will turn the US into a 4th world economy.
Oh sure, the euphoric effects may last for a few weeks.
Hopefully till after the election.
And when the American public finally realise what has been done to them, they'll feel just like Wile E. Coyote does after he's run over the edge of a cliff, and is just hanging there in mid air before plummeting to the bottom of the canyon.
A long time ago during the Vietam war, a Major Booris made the statement
"We had to destroy Ben Tre (a village) in order to save it".
Seems like the same logic is now being applied on a much grander scale.
Good luck everyone. We're all going to need it.
P.S. I wonder whether bonuses for merchant bankers will be made illegal as part of the package
Seems like they should just let them go under. But hey, I'm no economist, so I am stuck believing in accountability. Ironic that that word starts with the same letters as accountant and yet for two letters there's no relationship at all between the two concepts on Wall Street.
I am just sick about this, and more scared for the future of this country than I've been for awhile, which says something considering that I've spent most of the last 8 years in a perpetual state of outrage over Bush and co.'s idiotic antics.
A friend, a libertarian whose opinion I generally respect a lot, told me the other day that she looks at Obama and sees nothing but bills, bills, bills, and I couldn't even respond. I get libertarians' objections to social programs, I really do, even though I frequently disagree. But this... deregulation got us into this mess and I don't know how she can fail to see that, to the extent of treating this as something BETTER than, say, school lunch programs for underprivileged kids. I literally just cannot even fathom it.
"I wonder whether bonuses for merchant bankers will be made illegal as part of the package."
Yes Eric, me too. Shouldn't Mozillo from Countrywide be in jail at least? I wonder what ever happened to that guy. Our CEO got $120 million to retire early the month after running the bank into the ground. I think that's pretty good pay for screwing up.
Shadesbreath, I'm no economist either, but I get paid to write for a blog where I pretend I am. It's called Amateur Economists. There's another HubPages writer there too, Cheryl the Writer. Anyway, I've been writing about what this looks like for the ordinary person, because that is not getting the press it deserves. Wall Street--I'm about sick of hearing about those guys--not very mature of me but I just keep thinking, oh f**k Wall Street, Wall Street is what got us into this mess.
Kerryg, we are so screwed. I don't know how else to say it.
I've been watching the financial shennanigans Stateside this week with a feeling of utter bemusement. All the big names going down like nine pins; Lehman Bros, Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, and more banks here in the UK also in trouble. There's a scent in the air that smells like the wind of change, but could still turn out to be last weeks unwashed laundry!
I was taught in Economics that money is a 'negotiable instrument'. It only has a value if we all join in, and continue to believe in that value. The way things are going, I can see a system of bartering making a big comeback!
Hey 2 BOLD - think you're suppose to post something rather than just post what is already posted. I mean what does it mean.
I think the Federal Reserves bailing out the market is the dumbest thing they have done yet...
So to "protect" the market, they pump in money that doesn't exist making the dollar even more worthless??? WTF!
So in a couple months the same thing happens again evidentally costing us more to keep the market afloat....ummm...Bad idea!
Now the Fed. Gov. will own everything. Scary mez thinks.
I think the government would have been wiser to give the money back to the people and allowed them to pay back thier own debts instead of to the banks or companies or what have you that incurred the debt by unfair practices.
How can they be "owed" invisible money? They lost nothing but the interest they still feel they are owed and it is thier fault for buying with money they don't have.
The whole thing is whacked.
Think the eventuallity may be that the gangsters running the country will buy up all the bad dept. So for instance they may get all that forclosed property. (They meaning the goverment agency created to to take over all the bad debt) They of course will have to sell it to get the money back for the tax payers. If they sell it cheap the tax payers pay for the loss. However they may sell back to the banks and whatnot who caused the problem. So then those banks will get their defaulted property back for pennies on the dollar, and resell at big profit including all those commisions. Now that will be the biggest swindle in the history of the world.
Took me a few reads to understand what you are saying. Interesting, we could keep our money out of the banks. I have already done this, they like to take it without you knowing anyhow.
Could go old school and get safes in the home. lol, then well...the looters and thieves come in to steal it.
I would think that the domino will continue to each country for generations to come. Tragic really, too dependent on money. When we fall out, China falls out, India falls out and who is left to "win" so-to-speak???
naa. Sorrow has always been part of life. Turn your eyes to a better direction like...what sort of unity there would have to be in order to get through the ruff times.
Maybe it is over dramatic, but hey I have only been alive 30 years and I have seen a lot of sh*t in a very short time. Anything is possible.
U.S. Federal Reserves bailing out Wall Street? No need and a waste of time.
The U.S. Federal Reserves is only using taxpayers’ money to postpone a problem. In as long as the Wall Street remains a “free market”, the inevitable workings of supply and demand will soon catch up with them and the market will do a free-fall to establish an equilibrium of the reality but not until after the US presidential elections.
Actually...the fed. res. is printing the money, we don't actually have it. dodododod.
There is no money? Where has the money gone? It’s in their pockets. And since they can’t return it to you for nothing, they have to print some currency to cool you and in the real sense you are actually taking more debt from them.
With the US debt of $9 trillion or $30,000 per person, which politicians plan to pass to your children not yet born, they have very few options other than to bail out Wall Street. At 2% interest rate on $9 trillion, every citizen will have to pay $50 every month in interest alone.
What do you? Vote wisely (every citizen should vote!) in favour of those politicians with less lies so that the $9 trillion debt is paid off now.
I have come to the conclusion that the debt is never going to be paid off. I have also come to realize that this 30,000 per person is a bunch of crap.
Sorta like the average income in san diego is 100,000 a year, but seriously...it is more like 25,000 a year but the handful of millionairs makes the average completely inaccurate.
Same can be said for the entire U.S. So everyone pays back a debt that wasn't incurred by them in the first place??? Nope, not for me. 50$ a month for the people who make 1000.00 or those who make 5000.00 and those who make 5000,000.
It's bullsh*t. Our bloddy government can piss off! And McCain seems to think that the average person makes 200,000 a year. Come on! Maybe in his bubble.
And Obama. I don't have much againts him really but I think he would make a better leader in the communities he is close to. He should help there, as a president he could also ruin us and screw everyone.
No win situation.
The word out this morning: "Paulson: Foreign banks can use U.S. rescue plan" Gets better and better.
I heard is needed 2 or 3 trillion for the financial relief and the president is so anxious to take action in this sense. There are a lot of people sinking in their homes because of Ike hurricane and the president is more worried about his friends. I remember when Katrina stroked it took some time for the government to react, but I hate how fast they move when it’s something about financial or war issues.
Ideally it would have been morally right to allow the companies that made those bad investments fail. Bailing them out sends the wrong message to large corporations that make bad decisions and take unnecessary risks. Of course we taxpayers have a right to be angry especially when the CEO's of those corporations are going to be rewarded with very large payouts for basically what amounts to doing a bad job!
The problem is, no one knows what the repercussions would be to the WORLD's finances if we allowed all of those companies to go under. Fannie and Freddie have almost 6 Trillion dollars of mortgages between them! That's a lot of money and enough to wreck havoc on the world's economy. The good news is in the past when the government bailed out companies, the taxpayers actually realized a profit! That might not happen this time around, but if things go according to plan, it may not cost us quite what you think.
I think the governement should not bail them out. If they are ready to invest 700 billion into the market to sustain it, they should reconsider giving the money back to the people and allowing them to pay back "thier" debts and then they can be responsible for paying it back to the governement.
Plus if the gov. really thinks I am going to pay for someone elses financial mistake they are out of their mind. Even if we had to do it by being taxed or whatever, how do they figure they would be able get the money out of us.
Or instead of printing more money and expecting the tax payers to pay it back, the could just let the people keep thier homes and let freddie and fernie loose their butts besides they have already made more then they should have but what they are expecting is profits off of interest rates that were by definition "fraud".
I don't think anything further is owed to them for being so friggin' greedy.
meze thinks that bailing them out is only gonna make it worse in the long run.
Well you're missing the point. No one really knows how much it's going to cost, if anything! The plan is to buy the bad debt and resell it later. In the past as in the savings and loan debacle of the 80s, the same thing was done and the taxpayers actually made a profit!!
The problem here is the home prices that these mortgages financed are upside down so a profit might not be possible this time. The good news is the debt is worth something and if they can stabilize the markets we may get most of our money back so even though we're risking a trillion it may only cost 100 billion!
I think there's a lot of confusion about the nature of the debt they would be buying up, and that confusion will continue because part of the problem is that even investment bankers don't understand it very well. After the S & L crisis the RTC had all this property on their hands, actual physical property, attached to bad mortgages. They sold these properties and eventually did make some money back.
In the current situation, what we are talking about are complex, mortgage-backed securities that were sold and sold again and now are spread throughout the global financial system. These securities are made up of chopped up packages of sub-prime mortgage debt and other debt and were overrated and overvalued. They are like air--hard to understand, attached to real property only in the most abstract sense and in some cases not at all, and essentially worthless. Will their value come back, ever? That depends on 1) the general health of the housing market which, best case scenario isn't expected to even begin to recover for another two years, 2) the ability of the people doing the buying to decode what if anything backs the worthless securities they buy up, which is no easy task, and 3) the ability to negotiate the right price and make each purchase in a way that strengthens the institution's balance sheet without generating more fake profit for their stockholders, again no easy task even for the best of the best in that field.
If the underlying housing sector isn't brought back, it's just another shell game. The potential for fraud and abuse is unbelievable. Where did all the money sent to Louisiana to rebuild New Orleans go? We don't know, we just know where it didn't go---it didn't go to rebuild New Orleans. A similar fate awaits this blank check, I fear. Where will it go? Who knows, but we can be fairly certain it won't go to anything that will prop up the economy.
thanks for clearing some of it up. I am still a bit confused though. I guess what I don't understand is why they just can't void those bad contracts and renegotiate with the buys for mortages that are more condusive to the economy?
I guess it is a shame, and where did the money for New Orleans go? What a pitty.
Yes its a shame that the New Orleans money never ended up where it was supposed to.
16.000 Plus People are homeless and living on the streets of New Orleans
9.000 New Homeless are in the Texas coastal areas. Many in the greater Houston area.
The rest of the Gulf Coast and Texas are not in much better shape.
33 Million Americans including 12 million children are hungry tonight.
Not once have I heard either of the Presidential Candidates mention the 33 Million Hungry Americans. But I email and write to both of them every day.
We have a lot of things money needs spent on. But Wal Street is not one of them.
I am absolutely disgusted!!! We were just having this discussion with friends yesterday.
Our government should be more concerned about the Americans, then about corporate greed. They are the ones who created this mess in the first place. Giving the American Dream to those who could not afford it , lying about the value of there homes allow them to refinance , they were and are corrupt and knew what they were doing all for the ALMIGHTY DOLLAR. Everyone in this country deserves to own a home , however they should have been honest to those that could not afford what they bought and allowed them to purchase a lesser amount of house. If they did not have the credit, they should have been up front and explained to them what they had to do to make it better and then wrote the loans. Our government has destroyed our Country and a majority of us cannot even sell our homes if we wanted to , due to the corruption of our government. Our home was worth 358K and now we find out our home is now worth 150k it is absolutely disgusting. Our government needs to take care of the AMERICANS first and worry about the banks later as they are the ones who started this mess to begin with,
LOL Why don't you average Americans start finally taking care of yourselves instead of waiting for government to do this for you? Grow up, please
We own several houses I am only looking out for the American people in general.
I believe everyone deserves a place to call there own, and we are now renting 2 of ours with option to buy . So we do look out for ourself, you are not by chance a part of the downfall of the economy are you? Everone involved knew what they were doing, I certainly hope you didn't make your money by harming others as you appear not to be the kind of a person to do such a thing .
FYI: I am not the average American in reference to our home I only spoke of 1 in 4 it is the one on the west coast getting creamed by the economy. I would never wait for the government and have never had a handout Hell second thought maybe I should I wonder if the government would help in our tax bracket however I believe there is a cap:)? I pay the government so they can give it away, so maybe I could get some back , what do you think? mmmm.. Good Thinking Misha I will try to get a part back that I have paid out for years never hurts to take a shot. thanks for the thought.
The masters of the universe - the federal reserve is privately owned.
You are blaming the fall of the price of your home and general lack of real estate liquidity during bear markets on government and at the same time state that "Everyone involved knew what they were doing", right? Somehow those two statements don't go well together, at least for me. You should have known what you were doing, why blame the government then?
And no, I did not contribute to downfall. I don't pay taxes in America, I don't have any debt, and I rent my home. Intentionally
EDIT LOL, you are welcome
This why I respect and value your opinions let me reiterate I blame the Mortgage Brokers, The Appraisers, and the Lenders not our government. When we purchased that particular home and we have impeccable credit , you are correct we should have watched the market a little more closely however we did not. Bailouts on the banks I do disagree , they were all a part of the greed that encompasses our country. My bank was just taken over by JP Morgan Chase God only knows how they are going to clean up there mess. I am happy however that I did not place our assets all in one pot so that hasn't really effected us to much.Our government needs to step back and stop jumping into the frying pan as unless you can honestly think something through , it should not be passed. My huband and I do quite well for ourselves and I always try to help others ,the families that our in our homes are a part of the corruption of the mortgage crisis, yes they should have done there homework but who would anticipate that the West Coast of this Country would be hit so hard? The only thing we can do is sit on the home and hope that somewhere down the road , the market will turn around Thank you for your comment
I do not appreciate the fact that my taxes are going to be raised in order bail ANYBODY out of ANYTHING. Both my husband and I work, while raising two children. We pay a mortgage and maintenance on our co-op. We may not have made the mistake of taking out a flexible rate mortgage (why would you?). We unwisely (sarcasm) chose a fixed rate. Granted, our home may not be in forclosure but in this day and age we are still struggling. With costs on everything going up and salaries not - everyone is struggling. Everyone should be getting help! Not just those that made poor decisions. Not for nothing - WHY SHOULD I BAIL OUT ANYONE? It's not fair that the American people out there, just making it and barely hanging on, are going to have to pay for something they didn't do or cause.
There are hundreds of actors/athletes/millionaires/etc. out there. It's all well and dandy to support causes and offer their millions to foreign countries but what about your own? Are you telling me that each one of them can't donate a measly 1 million of your hundreds or tens of millions to help out your own country? I don't see why they warrant their salaries either but that's for another day. Tax them - they can actually spare it. For God's sake - John McCain should sell one of the too many homes he doesn't even know he has. Like Robin Hood - take from the rich and give to the poor!
Americans themselves and their lifestyle are responsible for recent crisis. bailout plan of Govt. can work only temporarily.
One has to find root causes. I have spelled out those in my hubs long back.
The housing crisis is nothing more than greed by multiple sources... which includes many individuals who had no business owning the home they were in and are now being foreclosed upon. The government was touting home ownership rates as a sign of a great economy. It turns out those numbers were clearly inflated. Housing prices got way ahead of themselves and they are simply reverting to where they need to be.
Ten Reasons Not To Bail Out Wall Street
Vote No Bailout petition.
While 1 in 9 homes in Cleavland are under foreclosure due to predatory subprime lending practices some American cities plan to sue banks.
http://njaes.rutgers.edu/presentations/ … .asp?id=44
The FBI has opened criminal investigations against some banks that include accounting fraud and insider trading.
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/ … 6920080129
http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2008/09/2 … ml?ref=rss
Quotes from this web page
http://www.traditionalvalues.org/workfi … alert.html
"September 30, 2008 – There is a lot of talk on Wall Street and Capitol Hill about a $700 billion taxpayer-funded bailout but little talk of recouping the outrageous "performance bonuses" paid to the very executives who engineered this disaster."
- "Franklin Raines, former head of Fannie Mae ... received total compensation of more than $91.1 million between 1998 and 2004."
- "Lehman Brothers Chairman and CEO Richard Fuld Jr. received $34 million. Lehman recently filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy."
- "AIG chief executive, Martin Sullivan, received $14 million in compensation. Sullivan was fired last June and AIG recently received an $85 billion taxpayer-funded bailout."
- "Merrill Lynch CEO John Thain received $17 million. Bank of America is acquiring Merrill Lynch at a sizeable discount."
Let Congress Know How Mad You Are About Corrupt Executives - Demand They Return Those Bonuses
http://capwiz.com/traditional/issues/al … d=11996126
I've been trying to come up with a way of visualising what 800 billion dollars represents.
A new Rolls Royce costs $400,000
Imagine that you wanted to buy $800 billion worth of Rolls Royces, and have them delivered in 1 year.
To fill the order, the factory would have to produce them at the rate of 380 cars per minute.
24 hours a day. 7 days a week. For a year.
My mind is really boggling. (And I'm sure someone will let me know if my maths is wrong :-)
I received an email the other day that would have my vote on the solution to this bailout. Of course, it will never happen but it is nice to consider lol. Here is a copy of the proposal:
Subject: Fw: A Real Economic Plan thought up by someone named "Birk"
I don't know who the brains are behind this, but it sure makes sense to
I'm against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG.
Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in
a We Deserve It Dividend.
To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000
bonafide U.S. Citizens 18 years and up.
Our population is about 301,000,000 counting every man,
woman and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults
18 and up..
So divide 200 million adults 18 into $85 billon that
My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18 as a We Deserve It Dividend.
Of course, it would NOT be tax free.
So let's assume a tax rate of 30%.
Every individual 18 has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes.
That sends $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam.
But it means that every adult 18 has $297,500.00 in their pocket.
A husband and wife has $595,000.00.
What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00 in your family?
Pay off your mortgage - housing crisis solved.
Repay college loans - what a great boost to new grads
Put away money for college - it'll be there
Save in a bank - create money to loan to entrepreneurs.
Buy a new car - create jobs
Invest in the market - capital drives growth
Pay for your parents' medical insurance - health care improves
Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean - or else
Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18 and up
Including the folks who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other
that is cutting back. And of course, for those serving in our Armed Forces.
If we're going to re-distribute wealth let's really do it...instead of
trickling out a puny
$1000.00 ( vote buy? ) economic incentive that is being proposed by one
of our candidates for President.
If we're going to do an $85 billion bailout, let's bail out every
adult U S Citizen 18 and up !
As for AIG - liquidate it.
Sell off its parts.
Let American General go back to being American General.
Sell off the real estate.
Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.
Here's my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn't.
Sure it's a crazy idea that can never work.
But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party!
How do you spell Economic Boom?
I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the
We Deserve It Dividend more than I do the geniuses
at AIG or in Washington DC .
And remember, The Birk plan only really costs $59.5 Billion because $25.5
Billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam.
Make Money, thanks for all those links. There were some new ones in there for me, and I've been following this whole situation pretty closely.
Bonnie, honestly, in between being relatively well-off in the first place, and frugal by nature, my husband and I haven't yet felt the pinch, but $595,000 would pay off our mortgage, pay for our kids' college (I hope, who knows what the situation will be in 7 and 16 years?), and still have a couple hundred thousand left over. Beautiful! That is what I call trickle-up economics.
Your welcome Kerry.
Good plan Bonnie. We all know that trickle-down economics doesn't work. It certainly looks like trickle-up economics would seeing every dollar that is spent money is paid in taxes to pay the plan off. Even money saved by individuals would put more taxes in the coffers to pay the plan off, from the taxes paid on interest they receive.
To quote Jim Rogers “Whom has this bailout helped? The US government is bailing out Wall Street, not the American people who are in debt” I 'd simply call it mismanagement.
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