Is the clash between a U.S. warship and an oil Iranian tanker a coinci

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maxoxam41posted 12 years ago
Pear Harbor, the Tonkin gulf incident, the september 11th attack, this clash have the same common denominator, a U.S. attack leading to a "justified" international intervention to an invasion or war. Many of you will refute the theory but, unfortunately it passed the theory level to being acknowledged as a pattern, or better a strategy.
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  Lemuel Martinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Give me a break. Go to your superiors and demand better material.
  
  On second thought, never mind, they aren't big on creativity or original thought. The only good ideas they have are ones they stole from us. We support Israel with all of our hearts. Forget about the United States, we are the least of your problems. Those who are arrayed against Israel will experience the full wrath Of God.
  
  I know, I know. Save your breath. I read the book.
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  maxoxam41posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  For the Pearl Harbor attack, my history teacher taught it to me, years before I read anything about it! We definitively did not read the same books (especially from someone who hides behind religion "the wrath of god") to argument. I don't consider the bible as a book, it carries the same ideology than the red Chinese book. As for Israel which rational person beside the one with Jew origins will support them? Americans and Israelis have interests on Iranian soil. America, its oil and Israel, its military power and dominance in the region.
  The Tonkin gulf, who doesn't know about the details of this event? No need for me to extrapolate!
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  Lemuel Martinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So your teacher taught you that the preemptive sneak attack on Pearl Harbor was a ploy or an unwarranted excuse for American aggression? Who was your teacher, Charles Manson, or Osama Bin Laden?
  
  As far as the book . . . live and learn.
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  maxoxam41posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Your references define your knowledge, i.e. limited and, I learned not to waste my time with people who don't know what critical thinking is!
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  Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Why can't you just not argue the facts, as you know them to be, rather than launch an attack with no substance?
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  Lemuel Martinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You should respect those who are more intelligent, well educated and accomplished than you.
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  such a humble man and somehow we have seen a total lack of actual knowledge from you...
  
  For example let me ask you what do you know about the US forced opening of Japan and the destruction of Tokyo bay by unprovoked American attack long before WWII?
  
  What do you know about the Hull Note which was described by the US secretary of war before Pearl harbor as a means of "how we should maneuver them [the Japanese] into the position of firing the first shot without allowing too much danger to ourselves."?
  
  Don't worry I will wait while you go google it.
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  Lemuel Martinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Google this, comrade.
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Exactly the answer we all expect from this so much better educated individual you are hopelessly under informed and don't even have the wherewithal to figure it out and go do your research and learn your history.
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  Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Have you been snorting bath salts? Try some reading.
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  Lemuel Martinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It sounds like you have been reading comic books.
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  Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  On my bended knees. Your clear, well thought out response leaves me truly humble. I'm just like all those other women in your life.
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Man this guy is a treat
  
  By the way I meant to thank you for those links on workfare, interesting and not very pleasant.
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  Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, he is mildly entertaining . No problem, anytime. Not pleasant, but we're used to a good old scrap in the UK. Roll on the appeals on workfare. We WILL win.
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  Lemuel Martinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  If two fools agree does that make them wise? Wha't with the smiley faces, are you just school children on a lark?
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well thankfully we aren't all angry hateful souls
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  Lemuel Martinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thankfully we aren't all brainwashed.
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Indeed, some of us actually know facts and history you should try it.
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  Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Why are you so concerned? The conversation was not about you.
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I truly hope so, Scotland seems to be doing encouraging things from what I hear.
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  Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Scotland always do. Whilst I can completely understand why they might vote for independence, it will be England's great loss.
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  Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I will, where are they?
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  Reality Bytesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
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wildernessposted 12 years ago
This conspiracy theory makes perfect sense. We all know that if the US had not responded to the 911 attack on its people the perpetrators would have felt really, really bad and slunk back into the religious morass they came from. The same holds true for the Japanese in WWII - had we not declared war on them and "intervened" in their country in response to Pearl Harbor they would have left the US strictly alone in that war. The US is such an immoral place to have responded to other peoples killing Americans!

Not.
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  Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Hang on, the US responded too late to Pearl Harbour. Had they taken note of what others may have stated, a lot of lives may have been saved. The US (and the UK I might add) responded to 9/11 by attacking a nation which was not involved in the attack. Anything but to examine their own foreign policy, and who they had funded.
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  Lemuel Martinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Have you been snorting "bath salts"? That probably won't translate well through your Martian to English program. Bath salts are illicit drugs that make you lose you mind.
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  Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Valid argument, well substantiated, clear perspective. : :rolleyes
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  Lemuel Martinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I am supposed to have a valid argument when you are talking all out of your head? You may have started the game, but you don't set the rules. I won't respond they way they taught you in training. Welcome to the real world.
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  Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What training would that be exactly? I'm just a dumb female and have no clue what your mean. I need a real, educated, worldly wise man to explain it to me.
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  wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The US responded too late to Pearl Harbor? The country declared war the next day! True, they didn't chase down the Japanese fleet and destroy it, but then about all they had after Pearl Harbor was rowboats in the Pacific Fleet.
  
  True, we didn't attack the nation that flew the planes on 911, but then there was no nation. Instead we attacked the nation that funded and supplied the people that flew the planes, the nation that supplied them with a home. I don't have a problem with that.
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well the US intentionally pushed Japan into war, even the secretary of war admitted it.
  
  As for 9/11 no invading a country that had some Alqaeda in it, we got rid of a government we created and installed then killed hundreds of thousands of innocents there and in Iraq (there too for some reason) to not get particularly many of the people actually responsible and to get a huge amount of people who were just trying to live their lives.
  
  You don't punish terrorists by invading countries... if you want to get rid of them you do so in a targeted way like Obama is doing with the drone strikes and surgical raids.
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  Mighty Momposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Stop the presses!
  Are you stating that BushCo. attacked Iraq for a reason OTHER than stopping the terrorists who perpetrated 9/11?
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  Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Who would have thunk it?
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  Mighty Momposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Certainly not I, and I'm guessing not you, either.
  This thread seems to be suggesting the EXCEPTIONAL U.S. is not above goading other countries into attacks -- even on our own citizens -- to take the "high road" into war.
  My little brain hurts too much absorbing this!
  
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  Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Mine too. If only I had been born a strong and thoughtful male I might be be able to deal with all this, intelligently.
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I am just way out there you know? Frankly I don't know what comes over me.
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  maxoxam41posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Come on mighty mom, with your brain you can't think otherwise!
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  Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  My point being, that other countries had pointed out that the aggressors were expansionists and scoundrels. The US not wanting to get involved mattered not- they would attack anyway. The US response was late, very late.
  
  "but then there was no nation" Saudi was a nation. It was a poor error of judgement on the part of the US, and I might add, the UK was equally as responsible for that poor judgement.
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  Mighty Momposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Don't feel bad, Hollie Thomas.
  How could you have known your PM would turn into a lapdog?
  Interestingly, said lapdog also engaged in a photo opp with Mitt Romney in London a few days back.
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  Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Indeed he did . In 1997 I voted for that lap dog *shamed* I was also foolish and gullible. He's no lap dog really, he had a choice and self interest trumped all.
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  wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  As far as I know the Saudi govt. never authorized the actions of 911. The people may have been Saudi in origin, but people often act outside the interests and guidelines of their nations. It is not a reason to attack that nation.
  
  Sounds like you are promoting the idea of a pre-emptive strike because we think another country will harm us.
  
  In general, I have a problem with that concept - it seems in line with what the OP thinks happened, just without the political "prettying up" and is usually an inexcusable reaction to fear and little more. That was the excuse for Iraq (WMD's) and look what the results have been as well as how the excuse proved out.
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  Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So, if the Saudi Govt did not sanction 9/11 and their people acted outside the interests and guidelines of their nation, which, according to you and I'm not disagreeing, does not justify a military strike. How can you justify a military strike on persons who were not responsible for 9/11?
  
  I'm not the one who is justifying a pre-emptive strike.
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  wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Right or wrong, the story seems to be that the US carried out military action against the nation most responsible for arming, supplying and providing a home for those that were responsible. It's been a long time, but I seem the remember a declaration from the US that such nations will cease to provide such funding or a home for our enemies or we would come in and get them. They didn't, we did. The strike was not particularly against the country providing that home; the country and its citizens were just in the way and refusing to move.
  
  To many, that is splitting hairs and of no consequence, but I disagree. Any country sheltering our enemies from reprisal and/or aiding them in future attacks against us will bear the consequences of their actions. That aid may be nothing but knowingly and intentionally providing a place to exist but that's enough.
  
  Perhaps I misread your intent with the comments that the US reaction was far too late - that Japan was known to be expansionists and scoundrels that should have been attacked before they attacked us.
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  Lemuel Martinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The war was not against a nation. It was against a maniacal dictator, his henchmen, and his influene.
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  In Afghanistan... Tell me who was the leader of Afghanistan before the invasion? let me guess you have no idea and you are off to check google? Not to mention it was a government we installed!
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  Lemuel Martinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The Taliban.
  
  I believe you when you say, "We installed it", because you are not an American (we didn't install anything in Afghanistan, we provided some training and hardware). I suspect you are an enemy of this country.
  
  Quit talking smack, and go for it.
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  maxoxam41posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I don't see in what way you are more of an American than Josak. Or better that your source of "information" is more valuable than others. However, the U.S. is not out in the wild to get rid of any dictator, that we support, but rather to implement razzias. Where were the U.S. in the Bosnian-Serbian war, where were they when Hutu and Tutsi killed each others?
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  Lemuel Martinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Where were you?
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  maxoxam41posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You are the one who insists on giving humanitarian credit to the U.S. government, I just underlined its real goals. Neither Europe, nor the U.S. care about people. At least, I'm realistic.
  What do you think a nobody can do against criminal organizations? Do you think that I would be on the field in order to get killed. The only time I would fight for my country would be when an army debarked on our beaches!
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  KMI Rebel Yellposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What country is your country? It surly must be on the coast. Is it Israel?
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  maxoxam41posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The United-States has also coasts if my memory doesn't betray me!
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I am an American and the installation and support of the Taliban by the US is a matter of public record, we replaced a moderate group with the Taliban because we thought they would hate the soviets more... unfortunately when you install hate groups in power the consequences are rarely positive.
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  Lemuel Martinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You are not an American.
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  whatever you reckon man but your knowledge of history is abysmally, horrifyingly bad.
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  maxoxam41posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  On which basis are you not an American? Because when we trace your bloodline it belongs to another country? Which American born doesn't fit to my statement? In what way Lemuel Martin is more of an American? If I stick to your name I would call for an European heritage and if I observe your physical features, the doubt doesn't exist anymore if I pinpoint Africa. Then, once more in what way Lemuel Martin is more American than Josak?
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  psycheskinnerposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  If not knowing about publicly recorded history makes you an American.... he is better off not being one.
  
  Seriously, dude, Everyone including the US government is open about how they helped the Taliban in years gone by. Denying this is like denying that water is wet. it starts making the conspiracy theorists sound rational by comparison.
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  maxoxam41posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I am a conspiracy believer since conspiracy theorist doesn't mean anything to me and I am quite rational. The debate between you and I, if ever it existed, would have to prove who is more rational since I presume that you consider yourself as a rational thinker. On which basis?
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  maxoxam41posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Here is the epitome of the average American way of thinking justifying the invasion, the killing in Iraq. They did not attack but they bla, bla,bla... By the way America accepted the "pilots" does it mean that we have to blow our own nation?
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knolyourselfposted 12 years ago
The US wanted an excuse to get into world war II both the European and pacific theaters. It has been documents that they knew Pearl Harbor was going to happen and they let it happen. The Tonkin gulf incident documented fake. There is Panama, Grenada, Libya, Syria all faked.
They don't bother with war resolutions any more. They don't need to.
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  Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I really wish that I could that that was not true. But it is.
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  Lemuel Martinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The Jihad version of history.
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  Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Oh my gosh, you mean, Muslims were responsible for Pearl harbour, too?
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  Lemuel Martinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Not much at comprehension?
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  Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That was sarcasm, but you understood that, right?
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  How would you know? You don't even know basic American history in Japan or the lead up to WWII... you are not really in a position to be judging.
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knolyourselfposted 12 years ago
http://www.911review.com/articles/anon/ … tions.html
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  Lemuel Martinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Oh a link! Quick, follow it and get a bug that will rob your clicks. I don't follow links on this computer. My mama didn't raise no fool.
  
  Go back to sleep.
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  Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Absolutely she didn't. I bet she could honestly say that HER boy would never be fooled by logic, reason and evidence.
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  There is this thing called anti virus... you may have heard of it... I have never got a single infection off hub pages in all the time I have been here and all the links I have followed btw.
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Mighty Momposted 12 years ago
Is it too late to blame 9/11 on Iran?
I mean, is there a statute of limitations on such things?
Who needs a new excuse for striking against Iran when we can dust off one that worked oh so well the first time!
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  Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this
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  maxoxam41posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  ah mighty mom, you are right, since the populace doesn't think let's tell them that in fact we found a device belonging to Iran in the aisle of the pentagon attacked by the "airplane". Here is a direct evidence likng the Iranian government to September 11!
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