Obama vs Romney: October 22nd 2012

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MSpublishingposted 12 years ago
Who do you think won tonight's debate?
Post below!
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  tammybarnetteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Obama won
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  lone77starposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The Corporate Party!
  
  Both Obamney and Rombama work for one master and it's not the American citizen.
  
  The Corporate Party media is doing a bang up job keeping alive the illusion of Normalcy and Choice.
  
  Both the Demopublicans and Republicrats support,
  * More War!
  * More Tyranny!
  * More Economic Lunacy! -- $16.3 TRILLION and Accelerating!
  
  I was pretty deluded 4 years ago when I supported Obama. I got swept up in the rhetoric, like so many here.
  
  The real debates begin tonight (October 23, 2012), online, between the 3rd Party candidates.
  
  If you only look at the one-sided Corporate Party (Dems and Reps), then you're looking only at Germany 80 years ago, upgraded to Hitler 2.0 -- the slicker, sexier, more "patriotic" tyranny.
  
  Want an example? Just watch the 2 short videos, below:
  
  RNC Scripted:
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKaXqoC4DjE
  
  DNC Scripted:
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmaE2Aez_XY
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  Ken Burgessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Obama dominated the first hour, the last 20-30 minutes, I thought Romney made some great points... the most critical one when he said 'we can not have a strong Foreign Policy if our economy is weak, and we are neck deep in debt.' ... or close to that.
  That was THE truest statement made that night.
  When it's all said and done... the debates proved to America that Romney can be Presidential, and likeable... but most importantly that he is more experienced and knowledgeable about the economy and business...
  And folks at the end of the day... there are some 30 to 50 million Americans under or unemployed that are looking for someone to do a better job than Obama has done... that only helps Romney. as do all the business men who are scared stiff of the new taxes Obama wants to hit them with.
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  tammybarnetteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Ken, People are expecting Romney to take coal coultry VA, and he may, but the unemployment rate is bout 5.6% I believe last time I checked...the propaganda about the economy is not true...it is skewed...I suppose they tally up and divide the worst hit states....sadly, if things are repeated enough people believe it and begin to repeat it...the nature of propaganda
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  Ken Burgessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I agree, it is sad that people believe what is said over and over, many of them listened to and saw Obama's Ads painting Romney as Satan for the last YEAR, he's been running hate ads for a YEAR now, and just like any good propaganda... they have been run so often some people have likely been brainwashed by them.
  To counter that, we have the reality of Obama's 4 year reign... over 6 TRILLION spent and we are worse off today than when he walked into office... businesses continue to flee overseas, he did nothing to fix it.
  China is still killing us in trade... he did nothing to fix it.
  Four years to pass a budget... never did.
  Four years to address the tax codes.... never did.
  Every issue he is talking about, he says he is doing this, or will do that...
  Why didn't he do any of it in the last four years???
  Oh that's right... for more than a year now he has been running to be re-elected, that takes priority over everything... even Libya.
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  tammybarnetteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Ken, I was just making the point...I hate all ads, listen to none from either side...but, everything you just said is an add and not true....he had two years befor the congress was taken over and tried to freesze everything, did a pretty darn good job of it as well...could write a book but do not have the time today, plus we have went our rounds I believe,lol At the end of the day, I think you are a good person who has been mislead and I believe you thought the same of me
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  Ken Burgessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The truth of it is... IMO... we have a real difference between the candidates this year... they have very different backgrounds, and look at the Country and the World in very different ways.
  Obama is a Globalist, he wants America to be one of many.
  Romney is a Nationalist, he wants America to lead from the front.
  Obama wants to share the wealth and help other countries up.
  Romney wants to put America first, always, even if it weakens others.
  Obama uses regulations and the EPA to slow and stall Coal and Oil prod.
  Romney wants to do away with those regulations and produce a lot more.
  Obama wants to severely cut back on out military, millions of jobs lost.
  Romney wants to keep a strong military at about the current size.
  We do have major differences in the direction they will lead this country.
  One is a businessman who was successful in Government in the past.
  The other has given us the last 4 years, and wants 4 more of the same.
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  tammybarnetteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Ken, I agree that Obama is leading into the future and world economy instead of the backwards notion that we are somehow superior to the rest of the world, the reason other countries hate America...Obama actually is the candidate who constantly repeats his ideas of nation building at home as oppossed to spending war on military that is not being asked for by the military...As far as regulations are concerned I believe finding ways to secure cleaner energy is the path of the future if we want resources available to future generation, and cleaner air,etc. And Obama being the only candidate to bother mentioning the importance of our veterans and not only their need for better healthcare but job training to be able to obtain the jobs of tomorrow....Yes, you and I as well as the POTUS and Romney, have widely different views of what's best for the future of America and most importantly all Americans.
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  Ken Burgessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The Problem Tammy, is that the world has a lot of potential to be a dangerous place.
  When we are no longer the #1 economic power in the world, and no longer the #1 military in the world... that means TWO things are certain:
  1) Our standard of livings will go down, our wages will go down, the opportunity for our children will go down.
  2) Someone else WILL step up to fill the shoes of world leader and #1 military, and there is a good chance they won't have our best interests in mind, but their own.
  Romney had it right, a strong economy and a strong military is best for America, and the world.
  Obama doesn't see it that way, Obama gave away hundreds of billions of dollars to other nations so that THEY can drill for oil, build solar plants, support their military... Obama uses his position as President in efforts to level the playing field around the world, on OUR dime, and at our expense in the future. Obama has helped extremists like the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, and Hezbollah to become stronger throughout the Middle East, these radicals are taking control of the entire region of that globe.
  The harm Obama will do to America's economy by overloading our debt, and helping foster overseas businesses, will be great... all Americans (except the very rich) will suffer if he gets four more years.
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  tammybarnetteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/no-the … otherhood/
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  movingoutposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  @Tammybarnette...I read the comment above yours and I have to laugh. They ignore Freeport, Illnois wherre bain is closing yet another manufacturing plant and they attack the POTUS? Go figure! lol I keep hearing about Romney's great success with saving businesses but all I read about are retail jobs, not manufacturing. Manufacturing pays a lot more then Dominos Pizza or Staples. And as we speak, Staples is closing stores to set up it's new online venture, QUILL. They hope to get out of the brick and mortar locations and replace it with low overhead, low paying, distribution warehouse. So first we lose the manufacturing jobs and now they're working on the retail jobs. Go figure! I guess that's the POTUS fault to?
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  tammybarnetteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Movingout, They would blame the entire recession on him if they could, but some of us remeber W even if they have been trying to hide him....Where is (W)aldo? Check out the link above I sent to Ken as pertains to his comments...it's good stuff
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  Ken Burgessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, I took the time to read it, did you?
  "U.S. officials and lawmakers said Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton has determined that it was in the U.S. national interest to allow $1.3 billion in military assistance to flow. She also certified that Egypt is meeting its obligations to the Israeli-Egyptian peace treaty, which frees up an additional $200 million in economic aid, they said."
  The article states they did not give them the money, then turns around and says they did... my goodness, the whole thing could have come right out of the White House... I can see it now:
  "We are not giving them $1.5 Billion in aid, we are keeping up our military contracts with that country is all... and because they have not yet attacked Israel, we deemed it OK to give them 200 million more in aid..."
  But wait... isn't that the same thing as giving them the $1.5 Billion we usually do?
  "No not at all, of course not, as I just explained, it had nothing to do with giving aid, except where we waived that criteria, that $1.3 Billion went to maintain contracts we had with military elements within Egypt"
  So... we gave them $1.3 or $1.5 Billion?
  "No I did not say that at all..."
  So much like what we've seen in so many other topics...
  "It was a result of the spontaneous rioting from the video..."
  But we have confirmed that the Ambassador feared for his life, and had requested more security, because of previous attacks?
  "No, there were no such requests to my knowledge, it was just a spontaneous attack do to a hateful video..."
  But... the Secretary of State just called it a Terrorist attack...
  "No can't be, we are still investigating what occurred, we don't know exactly what happened yet, its too early to call it a terrorist attack..."
  But the attack happened weeks ago, they said in the Congressional Hearings that they knew from day one that it was a planned terrorist attack.
  "Well, if you look back at the record, we said all along it was a terrorist attack!"
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  tammybarnetteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Wow Ken, Your one of the spin doctors themselves aren't you...I bet you still praise Reagan after the Iran Contra story broke,huh...poor Jimmy Carter being made to appear a failed president when all he had to do was sneak them some weapons....Please man, read more carefully, and stop trying to spin something from it...then while your at it look up the entire history of giving aid etc. come on...your better than this Ken...And while your at it, you should glance down the page where I sent a link to Jax about the true record of your boy wonder as Gov.....I'm excited to hear how you will spin it....
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  Ken Burgessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'm pretty much through responding in this thread, I've read enough of the delusions others have typed. I am just very thankful we will have a new President after November 6th, this is the most certain election we have had since Clinton VS Dole.
  There are enough people that are tired of the lies, the unemployment, the loss of household income and value... Romney will be President in two weeks. So arguing with those who refuse to see what Obama has been all about is pointless.
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  tammybarnetteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Ken, you are far too smart of a person to believe the drivel in which you speak, you talk like a commercial when quick fact checks, reading CBO reports, looking at numbers from the US Treasury, all will give you real facts...last night on my local news they were talking about oil production being up, wish I could remember exact amount, but since I don't I will not guesstimate....but I do remember they said we are on track to be right there with the Saudis within 7 yrs....So when Obama wins this thing, and the next 4 yrs shows a turn around in historical measures, I hope you will be happy and grateful the two men trying to steal women's rights; human rights, and take us back to old policies that destroyed the econmy didn't get the chance
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  tammybarnetteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Ken, I also loved when Obama said "Governor we been to the web site, the numbers still do not add up,"...and they don't, but if they repeat it enough...
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  JaxsonRaineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, that would be great, except liberals don't want to actually talk about the math. They just want to quote a tax study that admits it isn't taking into account his entire plan.
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  tammybarnetteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Jax, look up My Esoterics hub about the subject, he is a cost analyst...he proves the math does not work, and admitts he would benefit from a Romney presidency, but wants all Americans to benefit....because THAT is what is most important, we can not have a strong leader country any other way...
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  JaxsonRaineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Tammy, look at it this way.
  
  The effective tax rate for the top 1% is 24%. The marginal rate is 35%.
  
  You could lower the tax rate for them all the way down to 24%, and if you eliminated all deductions, they would still be paying 24%.
  
  It is possible to lower marginal rates all the way down to the effective rates that are being paid, without affecting revenue. There is no difference between us collecting 24%, and 24%.
  
  In fact, Romney's 24% number that he gave out as an example, would have the top 1% paying more like 29%. That's right, his example shows that, if he wanted to, he could actually raise revenues while lowering rates. If it's possible to raise revenues, then it is certainly possible to keep them revenue neutral.
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  tammybarnetteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Jax, as a middle class American it is my taxes I worry about...I have two in college, one on the way to college and a four year old at home....His plan will affect the middle class or the deficit, bottom line
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  JaxsonRaineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It's the same story for the middle class. You have the marginal rates, and then you have the effective rates. The effective rates for middle class are even further away from the marginal rates than they are with the ultra-wealthy.
  
  Your tax rate at $60,000 would probably be somewhere around 8%, which means you would be revenue neutral at 8% tax rate with no deductions.
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  tammybarnetteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Actually for us, with all deductions it is 15%, and that will change as my little one goes to kindergarden and I am back to work...so we are not revenue neutral....
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  JaxsonRaineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I don't know your exact situation, but I doubt it's 15%.
  
  If you were single, no dependents, at $50,000, you would only pay about $6000, or 12%.
  
  Being head of household with two dependents, takes it down to $2000, or 4%.
  
  Married with two dependents, takes it to about $500, or 1%.
  
  So really, you shouldn't be paying 15%.
  
  If we change your revenue to $100,000...
  
  Married two dependents = 8.5%
  Single two dependents = 14%
  
  That's assuming you don't claim either of your two that are in college.
  
  Most people overestimate their effective tax rate.
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  tammybarnetteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  We claim smallest child only, and my husband makes very good money...been with his company for 20 years, worked his way up, the way America used to be...I have an accounting degree and two business degrees, so even at entry level should be able to add at least $40000 of income in the first year even in this state of TN....
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  JaxsonRaineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Ok, it sounded like you had more dependents.
  
  So, 15%... I could estimate fairly closely your income from that, but I won't try to put it on the internet.
  
  Lowering each of the marginal brackets by 20%, and limiting you to $25,000 in deductions, would have you paying right around 15%.
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  tammybarnetteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Jax, I appreciate that you didn't call out the number Does that include my added income? I believe we will see an increase...
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  JaxsonRaineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You would see an increase with the current system anyway.
  
  Current system. You pay 15% up to $X. If you add $40,000 in income, you will pay
  15% on that income if it(your total income) is below $70,000
  25% on that income if it(your total income) is below $140,000,
  28% on that income if it(your total income) is below $217,000,
  
  Romney's System. You pay 15% up to $X. If you add $40,000 in income, you will pay
  12% on that income if it(your total income) is below $70,000
  20% on that income if it(your total income) is below $140,000,
  22.4% on that income if it(your total income) is below $217,000,
  
  So, in your case, with the $25,000 limit, you might actually pay less under Romney's plan, where others might pay a little more.
  
  Basically, what Romney's system will do, is keep the effective tax rates for each bracket the same, but even out the playing field more. Instead of having people in the $150-$250k range paying anywhere from 10% to 28%, they will pay from 15% to 23%.
  
  Same thing with corporate rates. A new company will pay on average 29%, while an established company will pay on average 24%. Lowering rates and lowering deductions brings that closer to having everybody pay 26%.
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  tammybarnetteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  As it stands my children get back everything they pay in from the min wage jobs...how does system work there? I apologize, I am not lazy, lol...but haven't had the time to run some spread sheets lately...and also, do we actually know that $25000 number stands? He kind of seemed to pull that out of the air...
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  JaxsonRaineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  He just threw it out as an example of how it can be done.
  
  You can actually eliminate individual deductions.
  
  Or you can limit them.
  
  Either approach would require a lot of lawyers, and a study by the CBO/GAO to verify the effects. Romney can't get those studies done as a candidate.
  
  Probably what would end up happening, is that the limit on deductions would change depending on your income level. As it stands, $25k would end up taxing the top 1% MORE than they currently pay, so the figure would have to be higher for them.
  
  For minimum wage... I'll just use $15k per year. I'm assuming single/no dependents here.
  
  At 15k, they should pay about $500... With the rates lowered 20%, they should pay $400.
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  tammybarnetteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well as it stands they pay in about $500 and get it all back, so I was worried about the kids trying to start out in life as well as my own doing the same...also the loan change, is he going to undo that...It really seems he will bury some people trying to start out in life...if they all have to come back and live at home, even if my taxes went down we would be worse off...I need to do some more research, but, I very much appreciate this conversation...and thanks for taking time to run numbers for me while I'm grocery shopping with a 4 yr old wild indian,
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  JaxsonRaineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  If they are getting it all back, that won't change. It can't change unless he limits their deductions, or raises their rates. He hasn't proposed either of those, and a 25k limit on deductions wouldn't affect someone making $15k.
  
  I'm not sure about the student loans, what his position is on them, but that's a whole nother issue, lol. Student loans are good, but they are also bad.
  
  Have fun shopping, I have a 5 month old and 3 year old, it's fun taking them together
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  tammybarnetteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
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  tammybarnetteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It would help if I knew he would leave the student loan policy change of cutting out the banks alone...but he will not.
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  tammybarnetteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And by the way...they are all girls...which worries the very most about Romney's social policies...or should I say, the GOP's social policies
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  JayeWisdomposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Ken Burgess...If you truly believe that Romney (as president) would help by creating jobs in the USA for average Americans, you could find yourself feeling more disappointed than ever in your life before if you help elect him. Romney's business acumen has been used for one purpose: to make him ultra wealthy. He doesn't care about average Americans, and he's made that clear.
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  JaxsonRaineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yet, in his private career, he saved and created tons of jobs.
  
  As governor, he took his state from dead last in job creation, to 28th, in 4 years, while balancing 5 budget.
  
  His policies would clearly make American more attractive to businesses. Lower tax rates, territorial tax system, and less regulations where they aren't needed.
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  Justsilvieposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  
  Yea I am being Snarky!
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  tammybarnetteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  http://www.boston.com/businessupdates/2 … story.html Jax, Boston paper spells out the truth about Romneys accolades...
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  Mighty Momposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for this!
  
  My, my, my. What's this? A Romney APOLOGY TOUR???
  
  Others chafed at Romney’s frequent out of state trips as he tested the waters for his first presidential run. Despite his pledge to be the state’s top salesman, he tried to woo Republican Party conservatives by publicly bashing the state’s liberal politics and emphasizing its generous unemployment insurance benefits -- raising a red flag to firms interested in relocating here.
  
  “I was very shocked to hear our governor on the road basically saying Massachusetts is a terrible place to do business,” said David Begelfer, chief executive of the Massachusetts chapter of the National Association of Industrial and Office Properties, a commercial real estate trade group.
  
  "David A. Tibbetts, a former state director of economic development under two Republican governors, Weld and A. Paul Cellucci, said Romney seemed more concerned with his presidential ambitions than the nitty gritty of local economic development. Tibbetts, now president of the Merrimack Valley Economic Development Council in North Andover, cited an effort by local business officials to get Romney’s administration to use federal highway funds to build a new interchange on Interstate 93. The effort would have opened new land for development, Tibbetts said, but Romney showed little interest.
  
  “People had very high hopes for him as governor. He’s extremely bright, talented, and involved in business,” Tibbetts said. “In the end, he showed no loyalty to the state he was elected to run.”"
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  tammybarnetteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
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  Mighty Momposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  We need a "two-faced" smiley just for Romney.
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  tammybarnetteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Girl you are on a roll sides splitting, I am in pain LMAO
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  tammybarnetteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  MM, please check out the link higher up the page I left for Ken Burgess...eye opening as well
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  Justsilvieposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Obama!
  
  I do wish they would have gone a bit deeper and more realistically into the “what if Israel calls saying they are on the way to Iran” question … Because this debate did not convince me if Romney is elected he will not get us into another war.
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  tammybarnetteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  He should have dignified that with a response, I'm afraid it really shows his lack of intelligence or experience as it pertains to foriegn policy...I mean does he really believe thet will ask our permission? For us ,we really do not want another war in the middle east, we can not afford it, period....so our red line would be noncompliance...but Isreal has a far different view...of course I understand, but thet will not ask our permission..
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Here's the person the rest of the world wants to see as POTUS. Twenty one countries chose whether they wanted Romney or Obama.
  
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  tammybarnetteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Wow that is very interesting...I read an article the other day that childern from grade school through senior year were polled and Obama won that election as well...I can't remember exact number polled but i'm thinking in the millions....intersesting being they are the future of America
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  Mighty Momposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well that's no surprise, tammy.
  Of course you know they are brainwashing and indoctrinating children in our schools.
  That means the plan is working.
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  tammybarnetteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  MM, it's working, he's socializing the children, it must be in the kool-aid:)
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movingoutposted 12 years ago
No doubt about it, Obama won. Foreign leaders abroad must be shaking their heads in disbelief! Thinking how can the American public even consider Romney for POTUS.
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  KFlippinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Miracle Whip or Dreamsicles or what exactly??? would influence that absurd opine!!
  
  Foreign leaders abroad . . . do name one that is shaking their head in disbelief thanks for the smile of amusement at such a statement!
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  tammybarnetteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  48% Obama...40%Romney...CNN POLL
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  Ruben Riveraposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'm sure the Iranian president, Siryan president are rooting for the nice guy
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  lone77starposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Ahh, more war mongering. Hitler would be proud.
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movingoutposted 12 years ago
Shaking their heads and laughing how a candidate, who for the past year criticized the POTUS foreign policies, showed up and agreed with 90% or more of them! Thanks for the smile of amusement of attempting to show Romney as a winner.
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readytoescapeposted 12 years ago
Obama performed better, but I do not think he won. He spoke with a bit more assertiveness and he had some snarky quips, but then there was not that much disagreement in foreign policy. Romney demonstrated a much more diplomatic presence and he maneuvered the president to step in it demonstrating that our enemies, and some of our friends, have no respect for Obama’s “foreign policy” and the perceived lack of fortitude it projects.

By the way, Mr. President Soldiers and Marines still use bayonets.
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  livewithrichardposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I didn't see much out of either candidate... they pretty much agreed on most issues.
  
  Only the Marines use bayonets, the Army discontinued their use a couple years ago...
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  readytoescapeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That’s incorrect my son is in the Army, 3 tours of duty in Afghanistan and Iraq, 2 years a drill sergeant and now a Ranger, they use “Bayonets”. Many call it a K-Bar which is a multi-functional tool one of its uses is as a fixed bayonet
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  movingoutposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  @readytoescape, the POTUS didn't say bayonetts weren't used anymore. Go back and check.
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  Uninvited Writerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  This is what Obama said about that:
  
  "You mention the Navy, for example, and the fact that we have fewer ships than we did in 1916. Well, Governor, we also have fewer horses and bayonets . We have these things called aircraft carriers and planes land on them. We have ships that go underwater, nuclear submarines...
  — "It's not a game of battleship where we're counting ships, it's 'What are our priorities?' "
  
  ~ President Obama
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  movingoutposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Key word here is "fewer".
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  JaxsonRaineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I wouldn't quote that section if I were you... that was Obama at his most rude and condescending of the debate. Nobody(except people who worship Obama already) wants to see snark coming out of the leader of the USA.
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  JayeWisdomposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well, Jaxson, are you discounting all of the prior SNARK from Romney (who apparently decided to lay low on that last night because he's losing all the undecided soccer moms after his nasty debating technique the first night)?
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  JaxsonRaineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What snark?
  
  You mean, when the President interrupted Romney, and Romney dared to snarkily tell him 'I'm still speaking'?
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  Greek Oneposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Romney's 'you are hurting my feelings' approach was kinda sad
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  JaxsonRaineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What are you talking about? Quote?
  
  Libs have been saying crap about Romney since the first debate, yet I've only ever had one even try to back it up with a quote from the transcript, and it ended up being Obama interrupting Romney, not the other way around.
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  Greek Oneposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Conservative commentators and the Romney team have decried continuously how Obama was being such a bad boy not letting poor Mitt get a word in edgewise
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  JaxsonRaineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Ok, let me get this straight.
  
  Obama interrupts Romney, in three debates, more than two-dozen times.
  
  And you take class points away from ROMNEY, because conservative commentators have pointed out that interrupting in a debate is considered rude?
  
  Or, do you actually think that interrupting in a debate is fine.
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  Greek Oneposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  If you think you are being given the shaft and you cant stick up for yourself and stand your ground in the debate with a few choice words to your opponent..... how are you going to have the @#%@% to stand up to this guy and the rest of his wacko friends?
  
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  JaxsonRaineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Playing both sides now?
  
  Romney is criticized for 'not sticking up for himself' when Obama acted like a child and kept interrupting him.
  
  Romney is criticized for sticking up for himself, and rudely telling Obama that he will have his turn.
  
  Lol, which is it?
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  Greek Oneposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I would prefer it is the US President has testicles (metaphorically speaking)
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  Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What do you expect, after all, Mittens just looves teachers
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  Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I thought it was kinda funny.
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  lone77starposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Performance! That's exactly what it is.
  
  Obamney, the Silver-Tongued Devil
  
  versus
  
  Rombama, the Hollywood Handsome, flip-flopping politician
  
  Both work for the Corporate Party.
  
  In fact, we haven't had a citizen president for decades.
  
  I'm far more interested in the 3rd Party debates tonight (October 23) online.
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  tammybarnetteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Sadly third parties ensure an R president...but that needs to change...I will watch as well, but voting Obama, at the end of the day, I got to fight for my rights.
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  tammybarnetteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You sound like a flip flopper now, half of you sentence talks about how Romney agreed with POTUS, other half, about how bad that policy looks to the world If Romney agrees with everything our Commander in Cheif said, do you think the middle east will respect him? Actually, the POTUS has made great strides, the so called "apology tour," was the POTUS showing respect to the rest of the world....yes I know R's do not understand acting respectful, I read it all over the forums, and Mitt has shown to be a bully in the first two debates, ...and W destroyed relations in the middle east when he preumpted war without the UN or half of Americans approval...he was also looking like a big bully to the world...a big bully out to steal their oil...I love the way W was a hero for screwing over half of Americans to go run our national debt thru the roof raising the debt ceiling 8 times to fund an illegal war, but Obama is the devil for wanting to give all Americans health care....Love the way America came together when over 3000 of our own died on our own soil, but in Lybia, in a known terrorist hot spot, 4 Americans are murdered and it is somehow the POTUS fault....sorry for the rant here, but I have had it with the two sets of rules! I need to find one of those R measuring sticks, maybe I can convince myself I am as good a human as Mother Teresa and as beautiful as Halle Berry
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movingoutposted 12 years ago
@Tammybarnette, you know that can't be right? After all the moderator was biased? lol
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  KFlippinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  How insulting! The moderator was quite adept at ignoring the pleading eyes of Obama! Very well done debate.
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  tammybarnetteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
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JaxsonRaineposted 12 years ago
I didn't see it all, but the moderator actually did a good job!
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readytoescapeposted 12 years ago
Romney also gave Obama a pass on the Libya debacle, he could have gutted him but he stayed above the fray. Actually he should have, not necessarily about the attack, or the lack of force protection, but about the “creative alterations of the truth” afterwards trying to deny a terrorist attack and manipulate the news to maintain his political image.

If he won’t tell you the truth about a terrorist attack what else is he lying about?
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  Mighty Momposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  IDK, what?
  Reasons to invade Iraq?
  Weapons of Mass Destruction?
  Why the bin Ladens were escorted out of the US immediately following 9/11?
  Waterboarding?
  Abu Ghrab?
  
  Yes. We really should demand complete honesty from our elected officials.
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  readytoescapeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Lol, George Bush is not in this election, he already won, twice. No matter how many times you try to vote against him he still won.
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  Mighty Momposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, he cheated once and had his opponent swiftboated the second time.
  Shades of elections to come, it seems.
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  readytoescapeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, okay, he cheated, we still spend many hours laughing about it, and even more watching liberals still get apoplectic about it still......8 years later
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  JayeWisdomposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  W. Bush not only cheated and stole an election, but his was one of the most detrimental administrations this country ever suffered under, so I find it very un-amusing that you "still spend many hours laughing about it."
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  tammybarnetteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  He did not give Obama a pass, get real, the families of the dead US heros have begged them to stop...It does show Romney has some compassion, but not how your trying to paint it....And, you admitting the cheat with some kind of smirk here, All Americans lose if that is true, wake up...
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movingoutposted 12 years ago
@ready, if thats the case? It's a double edged sword. Romney changes his positions on just about everything, day after day. Where does his lying end?
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  JaxsonRaineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The media lies about his positions much more than he does. They exaggerate it greatly.
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  readytoescapeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Actually it is the media, the Obama campiagn talking heads and the President, Obama through all three debates constantly tried to frame Romney's positions, wrongly, purposely misleading the electorate
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  tammybarnetteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Actually he tried to get him to stick to something...but, yes the media has messed with them both...but FOX, who I wouldn't consider media, but only slants their lies toward Obama...
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  Mighty Momposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That's like trying to nail jello to a tree.
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  movingoutposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  @MM...rotflmao
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  tammybarnetteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  HAHAHAHA
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  tammybarnetteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The media lies about a lot...not just Romney
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  Mighty Momposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  They lie about his positions? How's that?
  You mean by posting a video clip of him saying X before (as governor, in the primaries, last week) and another video clip of him saying the polar opposite of X now?
  That's misleading, yes. But it's not the media being misleading.
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  JaxsonRaineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  When you take half a sentence, half a phrase, out of context... yes, it's misleading.
  
  "You didn't build that!" ring a bell?
  
  Romney could say 'I'm personally against abortion, but I'll uphold the current laws as governor', and the media quotes the second half to say that he is now super-pro choice.
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movingoutposted 12 years ago
Are we talking about the same Romney? Exaggerated? I've listened to his speechs on fox, cnn, hln, abc, msnbc and he plays to the audience the answers or plans he feels they want to hear for their vote. I will admit he's a good salesman! Tell them what they want to hear.
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habeeposted 12 years ago
I think Obama won, but I don't think "winning" was Romney's goal. Romney was trying to look calm, rational, and NOT like a warmonger.

CNN polls had Obama winning, 48% to 40% for Romney.

Asked if the debate caused viewers to make them more likely to vote for one or the other, 25% said they were more likely to vote for R now, and 24% said O. The rest said the debate had no effect.

I guess we'll see the real effect in a few days.
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  tammybarnetteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Exactly the way Obam acted in the first debate, but not the same media review
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  habeeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Obama hasn't been painted as a scary warmonger.
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  Mighty Momposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That's pretty telling what you wrote, Habee.
  You said he was "trying to look calm and rational."
  Why did he have to try so hard? Because he's not really calm or rational? He's certainly shown us hints in the first two debates.
  
  And you said he was trying NOT to look like a warmonger.
  Right. SO he IS a warmonger, but was trying hard not to look like one.
  
  Once again, trying hard to present an image.
  An image of what he doesn't want the public to know he really is.
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  JaxsonRaineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Oh yeah MM, much better than Obama interrupting and talking down to Romney.
  
  I have a simple truth for you MM. Nobody is born 'looking presidential'. There are things we expect, and yes, every POTUS has to try to fill that role. That is a GOOD thing.
  
  Obama was rude and sarcastic... is that what you want from the leader of the good old US of A?
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  habeeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No, I think he's been PAINTED as a warmonger.
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  JaxsonRaineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I think what hurt Obama the most were two things.
  
  1 - Again, interrupting, but this time he threw in condescending tone, like talking to a child. That is not what most people want to see their POTUS doing. I use sarcasm on internet forums, I don't expect it from the Commander in Chief.
  
  2 - Romney took the wind out of Obama's closing statements. Romney just got done laying out facts, 23 million looking for work, 9 million jobs short of Obama's projection, average pay down $4300, etc... Then immediately Obama starts his closing remarks 'We are on the right path, things are improving, etc...'. That took the wind out of his sails, imo.
  
  Romney was hurt most by certain lies the media has perpetrated against him, so he seemed like he was flipping on some issues again. But in all honesty, Obama spent more time attacking Romney than defending his record.
  
  The moderator was the winner in this debate.
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  Cody Hodge5posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Mitt, is that you?
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  JaxsonRaineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Liberals on this board never actually respond, lol. Like their POTUS, they make snarkey comments
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  Cody Hodge5posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  When you say something worth seriously responding to, you will get a good response
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  JaxsonRaineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You are a thing that I can't say without getting banned...
  
  You can't sit there and post with snark and sarcasm, then pretend that you're on the high road. Look at the other thread, I asked you a question, and you simply refused to answer.
  
  That simply PROVES that you don't care about a real discussion. 100% partisan.
  
  Grow up. You make a condescending remark to me about complaining and not accepting reality, when I wasn't complaining, and had already said Obama won. The truth is, I asked you a question because I wanted to see if you knew the composition of the polled population, but no... just crap.
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  Uninvited Writerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Show an example when you have not been partisan yourself.
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  JaxsonRaineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Lol, you have to be kidding.
  
  Was I being partisan when I said Obama won?
  
  Is it being partisan if I state a fact, backed up with a primary source to prove it?
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  readytoescapeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I watched after opinions on a different channel, that focus group thought Obama had an edge on foreign policy in this debate, but overwhelming thought Romney had better command with the economy. The majority (3-1 ratio) were going to vote Romney based on the importance of the economy.
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movingoutposted 12 years ago
You are kidding? He is win kinda guy. He went to win, didn't know the material and lost. No different then the first debate when the POTUS lost. I agreed.
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  habeeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I agree O won. The so-called "experts" have been advising R to look calm and non-confrontational in this last debate. Maybe you're right, though - maybe R didn't know what to say. Or, it could be that he took the advice. We'll probably never know.
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  JaxsonRaineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I think that 25/24% more likely figure is interesting. People just don't care as much about foreign policy. I agree that O won slightly on substance, but I think he lost, again, on style.
  
  More importantly, people more and more are thinking Romney is better for the economy than Obama, and that's far and away the most important subject.
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  tammybarnetteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Jax, I understand how important the economy is right now to Americans, and POTUS has explained nation building in all debates....but please do not kid yourself that foriegn policy is of at least the same level of importance if not more so...Just look to Egypt, Syria, Iran, Isreal...Looks like the players are all lining up here for the great revelation...So, yes a strong economy is important even as far as helping us to prepare for the inevidable, but a strong, intelligent, focused, centered POTUS is imperative to the balance approach we take in reguards to the middle east...you heard Romney on that interview I'm sure saying you surround yourself with the brightest of advisors when it comes to foriegn policy, his advisors are none other than W's advisors, and we all know how that turned out...I also love how nobody mentioned the class and dignity from Obama as he spoke of his trip to Isreal, how he didn't USE it for raising money, but to remind himself of their suffering...how it said we will always stand behind Isreal, not the muslim devil the GOP has been painting here is he....
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  JaxsonRaineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'm talking about importance to voters. Economy always tops the list as the most important factor.
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movingoutposted 12 years ago
Hogwash, he's either for a position or not. He plays to his audience.
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Hollie Thomasposted 12 years ago
I think O won, but I do think Romney came across as a bit more thoughtful then he has done in the past. You could tell R was better prepared and had been well advised. I think the problem for R was that as he got further into the debate, it was apparent that there were issues that he struggled with, the lack of substance contained within some of his answers and limited underlying education shone through at this point.
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Greek Oneposted 12 years ago
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  Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, but be fair Greek, we did establish that he loves teachers.
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  tammybarnetteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
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  Greek Oneposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I heard he has binders full of them!
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  tammybarnetteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  LMAO
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Greek Oneposted 12 years ago
"Obama is a Globalist, he wants America to be one of many.
Romney is a Nationalist, he wants America to lead from the front."

... You mean Romney wants to lead like Bush in Iraq when he putting US forces in harms way even though many of the allies who fought in Dessert Storm thought he was nuts to wage a war based on the false premise that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction? Meanwhile, Obama led a international effort that led to the downfall of the dictator in Libya, played his cards with Egypt perfectly.

Obama wants to share the wealth and help other countries up.
Romney wants to put America first, always, even if it weakens others.

...like when Romney bought companies and stripped them of their American employees?

Obama uses regulations and the EPA to slow and stall Coal and Oil prod.
Romney wants to do away with those regulations and produce a lot more.

...do away with regulations?...You mean like the banking sector did to get us into this mess in the first place. Let's have another 3 mile island!

Obama wants to severely cut back on out military, millions of jobs lost.
Romney wants to keep a strong military at about the current size.

Do you want the US government to engage in make-work projects for the military industrial complex? Is the defect and debt THAT small that socialist job creation initiatives for the military should be the norm? Why keep an army at a certain size if you can do as much with less? How many bayonets do you need?

One is a businessman who was successful in Government in the past.
The other has given us the last 4 years, and wants 4 more of the same.

Mitt's 'accomplishments' in government are debatable, Obama on the other hand has raised America's image abroad, successfully handle situations in Egypt, Libya, Afghanistan/Pakistan.. and has done the best possible to help turn around the American economy he was left with
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  Justsilvieposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  *****
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  tammybarnetteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
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movingoutposted 12 years ago
That is pure fear tactics and hogwash!
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rebekahELLEposted 12 years ago
I'm glad the debates are over. I think Obama definitely came out ahead last night and will most likely take the presidency for the next 4 years.
I think Romney is clearly out of his league when it comes to foreign policy. He almost endorsed Obama last night. I still don't know what he stands for. I don't understand how those voting for him can follow his continual shift from far right to moderate to almost peace loving liberal last night. I wonder if he chants mirror, mirror on the wall, who should I be today.

His thing about creating how many million jobs if he's president? And yet I've heard him say government doesn't create jobs.

Early voting starts this Saturday and I'll be there. At this point, it's about voter turnout.
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movingoutposted 12 years ago
@rebekahELLE....I'm with you! I'm also glad the debates are over. I also can't believe after all these years of running, Romney has yet to lay out a plan. But he is good at changing positions every time he turns around. I fear for the safety of my grandkids given Romney's lack of foreign policy. He looked like a scared rabbbit last night, spewing out memorized bits of facts he learned in random order making no sense. I ask myself, why would anyone vote for him?
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Mom Katposted 12 years ago
Up until this point I have remained very diplomatic in the political forums. I've pointed out things which have not been directed toward either side, rather the way we look at them through our own perception.
I've tried to encourage people to stop looking at the titles of "Democrat" vs "Republican" and get them to look at the individuals, their policies, their views, promises, past records and so forth.

Election years are filled with passion, tension, and far too much stubborn pigheadedness. It's great when you choose a person you can really get behind because you believe they are the best person for the job. When you have the facts and aren't driven by other factors such as which party they are signed on with or how much you hate the other party...

When someone gets caught in a lie and you refuse to admit that they lied just because you want to keep that candidate untarnished in your mind, does not serve you or the country any good.

When there is a misunderstanding, which there often times are in such complex dealings as politics, it doesn't automatically mean that the person is bad or wrong just because they are the guy you AREN'T pulling for....

We need to take a step back, away from ourselves and take a look at the big picture. Everyone has strengths & everyone has weaknesses. If you cannot admit that in the person you are planning to vote for, then you aren't being honest with yourself.

I've made my choice and I know exactly who I want as our President. I'm still not telling because I don't want anyone to disregard my wisdom simply because I may not be voting for the same guy they are... think about it.
If you knew I was voting the same way as you, would you agree with what I've said?
If you knew I was voting opposite of the way you are, would you dismiss my words or dispute them?
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  tammybarnetteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Mom Kat, Your wisdom and dignity stand whoever you vote for, in my eyes...voting is a personal choice...I think much of the back and forth here (In my point of view) is fun, and good natured...sometimes certain people get out of hand, but for the most part it's just fun...seriously, after the election is over, I don't know when I will be on the Hub much....I guess when whoever wins does something news worthy to talk about I have many intrest when it comes to reading, I would rather read hubs than mags...but when it comes to writing, well, should have been a journalist, that's what I said I wanted to be when I was 17, should have stuck to it...
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  Mom Katposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'm certain you would have rocked it like no one else could have
  
  Thanks for your kind words of decency & respect. I would hope people would still respect me, but I've seen an terrible amount of negativity thrown at and from both sides to put stock in believing I wouldn't be targeted. I mean I'm special, but I'm not THAT special
  
  I am crossing my fingers & toes & secretly hoping that my guy wins though (as I'm sure everyone else is as well, whomever their guy is)
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  tammybarnetteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
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  Mom Katposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Alright, I couldn't hold it in anymore... I wrote a hub about politics. If anyone wants to know what I think... you can go there because I'm still not posting it in here... (insert maniacal laugh)
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  tammybarnetteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Seen it, loved it, voted it up, awesome, beautiful, interesting, funny, informative great writing, etc!
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  rebekahELLEposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  + I just gave it a tweet.
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Abecedarianposted 12 years ago
Tonights debate, was clearly in Obama's corner. Romney was tongue tied and way to agreeable. If he agrees so much with the president, then why not keep the president we have now. I acutally felt sorry for Romney, he came off like a pre-alzheimers Reagan. Romney clearly took the first debate and then got comfortable and it cost him in the debates that followed.
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Abecedarianposted 12 years ago
Tonights debate, was clearly in Obama's corner. Romney was tongue tied and way to agreeable. If he agrees so much with the president, then why not keep the president we have now. I acutally felt sorry for Romney, he came off like a pre-alzheimers Reagan. Romney clearly took the first debate and then got comfortable and it cost him in the debates that followed.
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TBDquillingposted 12 years ago
It's sad that people believe they can only vote for these two men. I thin the green party has a much better platform and might be better at fixing our country.
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TBDquillingposted 12 years ago
I can tell you who didn't win. America. Both men told lies and half truths. I was very disappointed.
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rebekahELLEposted 12 years ago
Hey, I'm fired up and can't wait to vote on Saturday.
Did you see this, Obama supporters? Hot off the press.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Mfbbh8h … r_embedded

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  tammybarnetteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for sharing! That was awesome...I'm making calls Saturday, doing my tiny part, and as always, I pray, pray, pray!!!
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  rebekahELLEposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You're welcome. Share it and pass it along if you're on social media. No part is tiny if it's important to you.
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  tammybarnetteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
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Obama vs Romney: October 22nd 2012

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Obama vs Romney: October 22nd 2012

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