http://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_news/20 … icans?lite Yeah those liberals at NBC trying to skew the president...
As someone who considers myself a liberal, I feel lost when it comes to halting the erosion of our civil liberties, which is disconcertingly bipartisan in nature. George Bush's Justice Department authorized the use of torture, and now the Obama Justice Department claims he can order the killing of anyone, "even," according to NBC, "if there is no intelligence indicating they are engaged in an active plot to attack the U.S."
This isn't the change I wanted. http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02 … -memo?lite
Well Obama does admire Lincoln who suspended a few rights in his day.
I get nervous when Obama keeps comparing himself to Lincoln, JFK and MLK. They all got assassinated, and Obama has a lot of enemies.
I think Obama is the most protected man in the history of the world. His car, plane, houses and family have nothing left untouched by security scutiny and vigilance. His schedule is a state of the art arrangement with agencies all over and he has an historic number of agents at his finger tips.
I think he will be okay for his tenure in the White House. Hopefully the ones that would harm him will lose their fervor when he leaves office and security will probably be loosened a bit.
I wonder if Obama's legacy will be softened a bit also. "W" has stayed out of the limelight which keeps the legacy of his stewardship in office on the downlow as well. Only time will tell for the both of them. I think "W" was the worst president we have ever seen rivaling Jackson. I say that even though I voted for him both times. The other two that ran against him were just idiots is why I voted for "W".
I regurgitate a little bit in my mouth if obama and co. compared himself/ themselves to Abraham Lincoln, John Fitzgerald Kennedy or Martin Luther King. These were Men among men and their own men. They would never compare themselves to others to disingenuously glom on to others. You cant make a silk purse out of a pigs ear. No matter how many times they or their PR team try to make it stick.
Ditto Jean, What's with that. Does Obama have a martyr complex or something?
Yes, he does have a lot of enemies, especially looney tunes gun nuts running around in the woods in camo outfits. However, I haven't heard Obama compare himself to Lincoln, King or Kennedy. [Not saying he hasn't.] It's a bit early for that comparison.
With as much love and respect as possible, I'm starting to get impatient with your insatiable need to paint any opposition to Obama/Democrats as insane, stupid and/or dangerous, and I think it's time somebody called you on it. Your ad-hominem unnecessarily antagonises your opponents and obfuscates the real debate we are trying to have. Furthermore, it makes your own points less persuasive. If you are not aware of this, then please bear it in mind in the future. If you are aware, I wonder what you hope to gain. Since this is a bi-partisan issue, you would do well not to insult potential allies in the fight against executive assassinations.
What I said was factual. There are hundreds of gun nuts and survivalists running around in the woods in camo outfits. And Obama has had more threats on his life than any previous president.
And I'm not sure he has compared himself to Lincoln, Kennedy or FDR.
They were there before Barack. They will be there after Barack.
You ever see the movie The Survivors with Robin Williams?
That was decades before Barack. Right?
The comments posted about you are correct.
"They were there before Barack."
Absolutely true. For example, Ted Kaczinski, the math genius from University of Michigan, and Tim McVeigh, the Oklahoma City bomber, also one of our fine Michigan lads. Not to mention John Hinckley who almost killed Reagan. However, I get the feeling that the number nutjobs has increased in recent years.
I have no objection to fact, just to prejudice. "Looney tunes gun nuts" is not something you would find in an academic paper, nor in a post by somebody wishing to solve bi-partisan problems. Is there something especially wrong with an individual who runs around in a forest with a gun wearing camo?
Of course you are completely free of prejudice. Give me a break!
Your party got hijacked in 63' and derailed in 68'.
Nobody is, but I don't go around calling everyone who disagrees with me a 'mouth-breather'.
Don't you worry about Obama. He will send his drones to make sure he stays safe. I can't believe how stupid I was to not just vote for him once but twice! I feel like such a dork! He uses his high level education words and reels us in with his smiles. So many of us ended up feeling stupid. Live and learn folks. Live and learn.
There is no need to be concerned...Joe Biden has his back. With Biden in the VP seat Obama is as safe as a lily pad in the middle of a swamp. ~WB
....Killing anyone of his choosing...isn't that exactly what he did in Benghazi? ~WB
What gets me is this - This isn't the change I wanted.
Fours years and two votes later..... people are still betting their lives on mendacious campaign platitudes?
Congrats! Hey what happened to all the cheers from a couple months ago and how stupid Conservatives were?
You re-elected him not me. Now you see what we have been trying to tell you. And NO Mitt wouldn't have been any better. And NO hell no Ron Paul would not have been any better.
I didn't vote for obama either time. Although I am not particularly a Ron Paul fan I do believe he was probably the only real candidate in there. The other 2 are just spokespeople for world banking cartels, media/propaganda cartels and globalist elites, in my opinion.
The only reasons I voted for George Bush were Al Gore and John Kerry. Those were enough.
Now all these people elected Barack Obama twice.....not like there was anyone running against him.
Nothing has really changed has it? Has it really? I knew it wouldn't and if those who trumpeted all this were as intelligent as they insist they would have realized this as well.
As I said earlier, what amazes me is some are still repeating banal campaign slogans - like " we want change".
What some need is a reality check that will clear at the bank.
We doubled the deficit in 4 years, that's a change.
Oh right....that's the reason I don't have any change.
I "hope" you find some "change" so you are able to move "forward".
Oh there's another one.
Lean forward? Forward thinking?
I am amazed how that one has fooled so many.
Talk is cheap people.
I am looking forward to some change. Its the type of Change I Can Believe In. Yes I can.
good one! And here is another one of his rehetoric lies "We are all in this together". Yea, you betcha. He will have his security detail and drones to protect him with his gay followers being the barrier for him and his chitlins.
Trillions more debt and twice the price on gas, 30% raise on food prices and as far as I can see nothing to show for it. Oh, I am 110% sure I will hear its - Bush's fault and wars on credit cards. But that dont add up. I am coming up short 3 trillion dollars at least. The states put in a lot of cash. Entitlements are a drop in the bucket. Did we have to rebuild Germany, and Japan and send a man to mars while I wasnt looking? Where the money?
What do you mean nothing to show for it? Michelle has bangs now.
Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait. Michelle didn't build them bangs. A hairdresser did that. A stylists etc
She had help along the way, no doubt about it.
Of course Somebody else made that happen. I guess it really depends on what the definition of help is, though.
No...oh no...it's what the definition of IS, IS.
Never forget that.
"I did not have sexual relations with that woman, ms Lewinsky!"
I really miss Bill.
Look, let me be clear uhh somebody helped to create dictionaries that we have that allowed us to define words like "is'. Somebody invested in paper and ink. If you've got a dictionary—you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen.
Oh....you mean YOUR money that they will tell you is not YOURS?
The rich.....that's it!!!!!!!!!!
Mitt Romney would have been no better on National Security and privacy issues. Both parties (majorities within) are willing to erode civil liberties. Thinking a vote for Romney would somehow not only stop this trend, but reverse it, is the height of naivete.
Yeah i agree with you. The thought that he can kill anyone is unfair and unreal. the changes that have been made in my eyes havent been for the better
Also, way to give this thread a stupid attention-whoring title. You should've gone with "Obama's super-controversial new drone policy" or "Obama's drone strikes can target Americans?" instead.
Sooner28 Alas political-deceitfulness again taking place in our "democratic" government. Betrayals are part of the process...don't you know? I am disappointed in a lot of what has happened within the current President's term(s) but in may ways we make our own beds. When we believe what is being promised without skepticism in today's power structures we are only setting ourselves up for yet another mighty fall.
Sooner, I am upset as well, first he strengthened the Patriot Act and now this...I was willing to give the drone program a chance...if we were able to limit damage to civilians and keep boots at home, I thought in theory, this can be a good thing...I have been studying about both of these programs and their constitutionality. I know we are living in different times, terrorism has grown like a cancer on this earth, but now it seems(gulp) are we terrorist?
I am glad you created this forum because as a democrat it is hard to find a place to vent my frustrations about this Administration. It would be nice if we could have open conversations that were bipartisan. I always feel the need to defend Obama because I DO believe in much he has accomplished, but this....I don't like this, not even a little bit...
I'm a Dem and upset by this drone business too. But it's not the beginning of our trying to take over other countries, we have bases almost everywhere. The President is privy to information that we puny citizens do not have. Still, I wish all the politicians would work for the betterment of our Country instead of worrying about their next re-election, or getting rid of Obama. The choices of people we get for elections gets worse and worse, people need to get involved at the lower levels of government. And I've been there, nobody feels like they can make a difference anyway, so why bother? I've gone door to door on local issues in my community, and people are even too disillusioned about that. So they feel that their representatives in Washington may as well be on another planet, they aren't representing the wishes of the people once they get there.
Amen, The people have either given up hope or become indifferent but change will only come when the people can come together for the common purpose of saving OUR country. Everyone changes after being elected, my personal opinion is that; when they get there, they learn that there really aren't any choices to be made.Big Money is running this country, and likely every other as well. My eyes were opened when I learned about the Iran Contra Affair, I am sure it started way before then.
I'm glad a fellow liberal is not closing their eyes. I've seen other liberals on here simply ignore or severely minimize these developments, and I don't know why. Violation of civil liberties doesn't have a political color.
Obama has done some good things. He has advanced gay rights much farther than Romney or McCain ever would have, along with strengthening fuel efficiency standards and giving women easier access when suing for pay discrimination.
Unfortunately, there has to be a red line that will ultimately cause supporters to withdraw. A politician cannot be given immunity without consequence.
Please understand this.....
When all these elections and stuff happen and folks like myself...who have supported both parties in the past....tell you this man is and was no different I got all manner of insults and stuff thrown my diretion. it wasn't like that at all.
A politician is a politician no matter how you groom him for the role he is to play. Do you really think Barack Obama is deciding all these things? Now do you understand why we shouted about the people around him and choices in such that were being made.
When Pete Townsend wrote "Meet the new boss...same as the old boss" he knew precisely what he was talking about. John Lennon even chided the left for not knowing what they were doing really.
And before you get started I didn't really care anything for John McCain or Mitt Romney...I just called a hell of a lot less for what was coming down the pike with Barack Obama.
Gitmo was NEVER going to be closed. There really are some bad apples there. Not just poor little Bedouins who were in the wrong place.
It's time to stop treating these decisions like we are rooting for the best college team in the BCS. They are actors. Period. Someone else backs it all and you have to take that into consideration.
I will stand back now and here the obligatory rant about the Koch brothers. Which just proves my point.
Fae, No need to stand back now, I have no need to mention anything about the "right" in this forum. I have a big problem with GITMO, that is not the way Americans are suppossed to do business. As I stated earlier, I still support many of the policies of this Administration, but I am not at all happy as to these new "powers." I believe this country is run by Big Business; actually, more specifically, Big Money...this fact doesn't seem to change, no matter who sits in the Big Chair..and that was the "change" that I "hoped" for...
It's past time liberals, libertarians and other anti-war folk came together to expose Obama. I can personally put aside economic differences if it means ending the bi-partisan agenda of war and police-statism, what about you guys? Or is Obamacare that great that it's worth sacrificing your civil liberties and thousands of innocent lives each year for?
At this point, I would support a Ron Paul libertarian to end this madness.
In turn, I'd be happy to endorse the American Green party candidate. I was actually impressed with her debate with Gary Johnson, despite some disagreements.
Either one seems willing to end imperialism and puritanical laws.
I don't know if you've seen this video-http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/bestoftv/2013/02/06/tsr-moos-flip-bird-at-judge-pkg.cnn
People are acting outraged that she showed such "disrespect" to a court of law with her constant giggling (which I think was a sign of nervousness). Yet, the majority of the courts have allowed the erosion of civil liberties to go unimpeded. The judges and police officers are also complicit in the immoral drug "war" that the United States is still engaged in. If your actions and positions are absurd, maybe ridicule is deserved.
These judges don't represent justice as you rightly point out. They're a bunch of thugs representing government and the special interests that pay them. The woman said "adios", which is Spanish for "bye" - on what grounds is there to double the bail? All for possessing Zanex . . .
They use partisanship as a tool against the people. Your neighbor is republican and would probably bake you cookies, or make you lunch, loan you a cup of sugar. Your neighbor is democrat, probably help you jump start your car, give you a ride to work, loan ya 2 buxs for lunch.
partisanship is a useful tool because it plays into a basic human trait of "us against them". Humans want allies against perceived conflicts of their own interest.
partisanship keeps the creeps in power.
Exactly! As long as the American people are arguing ideologies they (we) are to busy too notice the atrocities. I am not sure if any that will ever run for office could be any different and still get elected. I have seen certain policies from D and R Presidents that sets then apart, but for the most part, they are all representing an agenda that has been in place for some time...
This is true to a certain point.
There are differences though, at least on certain issues. Gay marriage isn't a n issue supported by the GOP. Democrats have had to lead when it came to fighting for equal rights for gay Americans.
Democrats also don't generally push creation bills in science classrooms, or (though this isn't as true as it used to be, since many Democrats are now pro-life) restrict a woman's freedom over her own reproductive system.
But, on the more fundamental point about supporting the current power structure, both parties are basically the same. I see it as more of the "elites" arguing, rather than a real choice when it comes to elections.
Both parties are willing to allow big business to destroy the environment, broaden the government's powers to spy and assassinate, and ensure legitimate third party contenders are kept out of the national debate. If Obama and Romney were truly very different cats on the inside, they would not have worked together to keep Gary Johnson and Jill Stein out of the president debates this year.
This is true to a certain point. There are differences though, at least on certain issues. Republicans believe in the American dream. Personal responsibility. Working for a living. Telling the truth.
I am not partisan. I am just countering your partisanship.
Sometimes I think they use subliminal messages in TV shows flashed on the screen in milliseconds - Republicans want to take old folks social security checks away from them. What difference does it make a Republican replies, democrats want to have death panels, so what does it matter.
Legitimate third party contenders are often used as spoilers to draw votes from a particular candidate. But it is such a "sure thing" now they dont even do that.
Did you notice the lack of liberal opinionation since we started this?
Olly Olly Oxen Free!
BTW during the day as I have been commenting my commenter status went from II to I.
This isn't a left and right issue to me. Anyone who has read my forum posts or any of my hubs knows I am a staunch liberal. Being liberal does not mean one is culpably silent while a democrat is president, but morally outraged when a republican is.
There are differences within the parties on domestic policy, but this forum discussion is not about domestic policy or the differences between the two parties! There are a few brave conservatives and liberals who are standing up to Obama, but it's not the majority.
Liberals are afraid of criticizing Obama because they don't want a republican in the White House, and many conservatives have engaged in such hateful rhetoric towards Obama (calling him a Muslim non-citizen baby killer) that any legitimate criticism from the right is immediately tainted. I am guilty of the latter.
It does not matter if the most vile, normally vacuous conservative were warning about the police state (Rush Limbaugh), it would still be a warning we all needed to heed, liberal, conservative, moderate, whatever the case may be.
Bravo ! Bravo! Sooner. I was a liberal. I will never vote again. The stupidity of voting for Obama twice! This is all the stupid I can handle!
If you are truly a liberal, please do not feel stupid! Much has been accomplished. Healthcare for all, yes it may be painful in the beginning, but this is ground-breaking history being made. Gay persons and women can feel safe that their liberties are protected. Immigration is moving forward...there is much to be proud about...the economy is improving, we are becoming more energy independent, but we must figure out what comes after the industrial age. However, we are a nation of trailblazers, we will figure this out! Do not lose hope, do not quit voting, signing petitions, letting your voice be heard! Obama is but a man! He is not Christ, he WILL make mistakes and we must let him KNOW when he does, it is our responsibility to do so, we voted for him! I have written letters and signed petitions to let him know that I voted for him, and I did NOT vote for a stronger version of the Patriot Act!!! I DID NOT vote for kill lists or targeting AMERICANS!
Your optimism is astounding. I wonder whether all of this stuff is worth the unlawful killing of innocent civilians and the destruction of civil liberties.
Of course not, but be honest, if Romney won we would be doing the same thing, only worse I am sure we would be full boots on the ground war, and NONE of these POSITIVE actions would have happened! So, atrocities are never acceptable, but we have the lesser evil at the VERY least.
I believe picking a lesser evil is still picking evil. It's time, not to send an email to our congress-people gently reminding them what their job is, but to completely reject the current political system and start again. If we accept this now, what will we accept in the future on the basis that the other guy might be worse? It's an absurdity, and dangerous.
Although I understand your point, First I do not believe Obama is evil, I believe the Patriot Act and kill lists and having powers to hunt and kill Americans is evil...I actually believe Obama is a good POTUS and I disagree on some points of our foriegn policy. Second, I do not think America is corrupt, nor do I believe our ENTIRE government structure is corrupt, I believe we have work to do, I believe there are many corrupt career politicians and some structural change should happen to be more in line with the Constitution which would eliminate career politicians. I believe money is the root of the problem and that lobbying should be illegal. I am not anti-war, I wish we could have a peaceful world, but that is simply not reality. The Middle East is exploding... we have to protect our Nation. However, I do also believe that some such efforts are more about money and power and our interest in such, but which is which? I am not privy to know....
This is difficult because we disagree economically: Obamacare is not a good thing, in my opinion. It is a fascistic system that will ultimately provide the opposite of what its stated intentions are. The economy is not getting better, unless you believe the government's inflation numbers. Except they have a vested interest in getting people to believe that the stimulus and money-printing is working. There are less things to like in Obama than you might think.
Not only that, but what about Gitmo? What about the fact that, despite promising otherwise, this administration has been one of the most secret in history? He promised no tax increases. He's invaded countries without congressional approval. How on Earth can you believe he is a good president?
I believe Obamacare is/ will be a great thing. Healthcare costs are astronomical, pharmaceuticals being the leading culprit IMHO...I do think it will be hard to implement, there will be challenges and the CBO has already stated the cost has risen, mostly due to employers dumping and states not readying exchanges, so yes it is messy, but I think this will be a good change for my children and their children. As far as the economy, the stock market hit a 5 yr high, usually a good economic indicator, however, the QE is probably the reason and yes could be setting us up for another bubble(something to watch and prepare for) We must figure out what to do past the industrial age, this is the real underlying issue...To blame a POTUS for the social disorder is not accurate. Americans want everything and they want it cheap, but are unwilling to work for cheap pay, so there inlies the problem...we have outsourced ourselves. It is time the citizens take responsibility, the blame game fixes nothing(as we see in Washington, daily....sigh) It amazes me that many complain our government is trying to control us, take us over by tyranny, steal our rights, but I do not SEE these people DOING anything! Change will come from the people, by the people, or not at all.
I disagree. I think both of them work for the same people, just not - We The People. I truly think that it was imperative that they continue to employ the same candidate for another 4 years because they knew they could get away with a lot more with a "liberal mannequin" in place. Its obvious why too. Its either GWB's fault or Romney's fault if he had got in there. Obama can do anything he wants. The constituents are in a dream world of irresponsibility, adulation and denial.
I agree to a point. I do think Obama is different, I could be wrong of course, but he has caused the biggest rift I have ever seen from the GOP whom I believe sold out to Big Business years ago. I am of course not saying ALL R's are corrupt or that all D's are saints, corruption knows no label, but I think he is different. This latest develpoment has troubled me because it has compounded the disagreements that I already had about the Patriot Act, and GITMO and honestly for not pursuing a case against the former Administration for war crimes...now I understand why, because he has followed the same line in Foriegn Affairs...Do not fool yourself however, that all Dems or libs are sitting back quietly, because we are not. You may see some far lefties not accepting reality, but many of us are questioning, writing, and petitioning.
I believe you. I do. They got it "fixed" pretty good though. In 2016 you gonna vote your party line?
Depends who runs for the GOP, I like Huntsman...Not sure who will run for the D's either...I like Hillary, I like ole Joe, but would probably vote for Huntsman over Biden.
They have been trying to pawn off "old joe" for decades, nobody wanted him. He was never viable. By now he must owe his allegorical soul for all the political favors. And we think the Natl Debt is bad.
As far as Hillary. After Whitewater, didn't she become senator of Arkansas? No, wait it was New York or some other state. Then she recently quit as Sec of State, I guess. She's been getting sick a lot or falling down a lot on her way to the Benghazi hearings? You like her? Instead of "Change" do you think she will go with her latest slogan- "What difference does it make"?
Did you know Hillary started out as Republican, she worked on the Goldwater campaign which we know was a time when the R party was as divided as it is today, and she stood far right. She became a D in 1968, interesting time, at least IMO...She has been First Lady, she has been Senator, and she was the first woman to serve in a Presidents cabinet being Sec. of State...she has a little experience, don't you think.
She took responsibility for Bengahzi which is more than I can say for most politicians, and I actually thought she handled herself like a pro during the witch hunt...the media loves it's talking points and ugly pics though don't they? We love the dirty laundry,lol...When she said those words, as usual the rest of the sentence has been left out, as I am sure you already know, she said what difference does it make now, they are gone, this atrocity happened, we must figure out how to make sure it never happens again. The R's had a field day asking the same questions over and over and she referred them to the briefing not allowed heard by the American public, where I am sure the answers lie and the askers knew full well she could not answer, a shameful political game...
No she does not have experience. What company did she take from her garage to a billion dollar business. She has about as much comparable experience as Chelsea becoming a tv journalist.
Hillary's experience resembles nepotism and cronyism. That is it.
Every one of them lied for months about Benghazi. Finally finally she shows up to a hearing and they asked her some irrelevant baby questions and she choked on it. By now and even at the time many knew it was not about a youtube video, yet months later they asked her about youtube videos. A real question would be were yall funneling guns to terrorists? Why did you watch our people die?
Your wrote -.Do not fool yourself however, that all Dems or libs are sitting back quietly, because we are not. You may see some far lefties not accepting reality, but many of us are questioning, writing, and petitioning.
That is hilariously insulting
But next time you will tow the party line, and accept any lie that comes out of their incompetent mouths.
Next time HILLARY will do anything her pantsuits and hippie ponchos wants. The constituents are in a dream world of irresponsibility, adulation and denial.
My 4 yr old has this really cool toy called a dream light, I don't know if you have ever seen one, but it's a stuffed animal that lights up like the light bright of my day and casts it's design on the ceiling which makes a night light for little ones afraid of the dark. It is adorable. I tell you this too explain that the couple who invented this toy started their business in their basement and are now millionaires! Good for them, good for all the employees who were hired. However, in NO WAY does this make this lovely couple presidential material....
Obviously, you are not a Hillary fan,lol, good for you...too each their own. But, If you think for one moment that the Republicans in Congress had no idea what was happening in Bengahzi, then I have a nice bridge for sale. Since 9/11 the rules have obviously changed. Add to that we learned of Reagan's selling guns to Iran in order to free the hostages many years after the fact. Covert operations have been used throughout our history and now, in light of todays transparency and the ease of sharing information over the internet, pieces leak out..pieces. If the consulate was being used to funnel weapons to an operation of freedom fighters, then please understand, Congress would know!
And for your thinking you know me or whom I would vote for, that is absurd! I never said I would tow a party line, now did I...I said I like Huntsman who is a moderate R and Hillary, just because YOU do not care for her does not somehow mean I am a "party line voter." So, as the kids would say, don't get it twisted:)
So you think that someone that couldn't do her job as sec of state, went around propagating a youtube video lie, condemned it, even though it was free speech, continued to propagate that lie, that provoked even more unrest and caused DEATHS, is "presidential material"?
I think that everything you just said about her is a lie that has been propagated by the right who figures she will run for the Presidency in 2016, so they are laying their ground work early. And, I think, she would be a damn good POTUS! I am not asking you to think so, we were at one point having a civil discussion, I do not know why that changed, but I think we will agree to disagree...Have a beautiful day:)
It was her lies not anyone elses
In this video she implies that religious tolerance, supersedes free speech and free expression. These are inalienable rights bestowed upon us, not things Hillary makes as a privilege to be bestowed.
Later in the video she ties the video to the embassy attacks.
It was all a lie. And it cost lives. It is undeniable and irrefutable.
She never implies that religious tolerance supercedes free speech. She handled that beautifully actually, noting that free speech is woven into the fabric of our country and that violence is NEVER an acceptable reaction to speech. This video/conference was 2 days after the attack..the misinformation about the video was still in the air, and as she suggested from the very beginning, this video HAD sparked riots around the globe.
Do we remember another time when misinformation started a decade long war...John McCain stood by Condelezza, but oh how he changes when it is not his Party he is protecting.
I think it was disinformation, but , misinformation/disinformation, tomato tomatoe. They helped propagate that misinformation. It cost people their lives. Months later, noone still could get the truth out of them. They left our people to die. They continued to propagate that lie.
As far as the TRUTH being some right wing plot to derail her future in politics is in my opinion, black and white thinking and almost borderlines a dissociative type of thought processes. ie I do not want that to be true so it must be someone elses fault or plot.
Black and white thinking. In partisan-world I can see how Hitler came to power. Unquestioning adulation for own party, make someone else irrationally a scapegoat.
I must say, to me you seem to be the one who tows the party line. Were you questioning and witch hunting when the Condelezza story broke or towing a party line. I did not say I do not question Bengahzi, because I do, I said for you to think that the R's in Congress have no blood on their hands is absurd and to paraphrase you, follows a line of dissociative thinking. I have questions, I DO wonder if our Government, no matter who is in power, is truly behaving as a terrorists group in countries around the globe under the guise of spreading a democracy that I have never seen to be a success. I do question, I do not back up any party over the truth, and as for scapegoats, well Hillary was made to play that role which makes me respect her all the more. Because, truth be told, every member of the top elite knows the real score, the covert missions(what was really happening, running weapons or such) they all know. She went down with her ship, and for that I salute her!
Let me ask you something. Please bear with me.
Now we are aware that you have things being implemented by this administration you don't agree with and don't believe they should be doing.
What do you see as the solution? Do you believe the situation will be rectified?
You see many of us who voted for George Bush wound up in the same territory. Barack Obama was supposed to be the universal antidote.
So please tell me what you think.....or really it must be a who mustn't it?..........will cure it.
I sure hope you aren't crossing your fingers for Hillary because she is in it up to her neck like the rest of them.
Fae, I am petitioning daily. I joined a grassroots goup called no labels, lateley we passed the no budget no pay bill....I understand what you mean by "who" and I believe the people will have to make the changes. We have social media and a great ability to create and join organizations, too pool our monies, and too fight for our beliefs through petitions. There really is no one person who will lead us too the promise lans, except for Jesus, so if we want our country back we need to stand up and take it, and be willing to put our money where our mouth is:)
I am not a republican. You have brought up lots of republicans, as if somehow that will stop the truth. Somehow it will absolve responsibility. Then you actually "salute" those responsible for being either clueless, irresponsible, negligent and incompetent and NOT being forthcoming with the truth, that caused senseless death.. Or salute them for intentionally misleading the world that caused senseless death. If Hillary strangled a puppy on live TV would you write her name in the ballot and put a check by it? The owner of the puppy was a republican, in this hypothetical.
Again you are acting absurd...If you are not a tea party far right R then I am off my game,lol....I do not hold Condelezza Rice responsible for the 1000's of deaths in Iraq and I do not blame Hilllary for the 4 in Lybia..
If I am not one of you I must be one of "them". I understand completely. That is the core of my argument that has thusfar not been refuted. As far as Rice, trying to absolve one because of someone in the past is illogical. eg Charlie Manson was a bad, guy , so what difference does someone else doing it too- is not a rational argument. Also their propagation of the video lie cost more than 4 dead in Libya.
But I liked your previous post to Barefoot. And you have been very civil, and I can be pretty tough, so I appreciated discussing this stuff with you.
I am truly not trying to put you n a box or label you, I have debated many from the right, so I apologize if I misread you...wouldn't be my first mistake. I also appreciated the conversation, and I guarantee, if we try, we will find a middle ground we both believe
You have debated many from the right? And you apologize if you misread me?
I have said this before but I guess it needs saying again. Republicans are your neighbors, they'd bake you cookies, make you lunch, loan you money, jump start your car, or give you a ride to work.
They believe in the American dream. Hard work. Personal responsibility.
I used to identify with democrats but never liberals.
Democrats are your neighbors, they'd bake you cookies, make you lunch, loan you money, jump start your car, or give you a ride to work.
They believe in watching out for the little guy. Make sure he gets a fair shake, fair wage, decent working conditions and isnt run over or overlooked by big business.
I think its time for more of that American dream, Hard work and personal responsibility. Our country cannot survive any more liberalism or socialism.
My granddad never took a handout in his life, no matter how hungry he was. Orphaned and farmed out at age 5. Rode the trains at age 6. He would be sickened by liberalism and socialism.
I understand what you are saying, most of my neighbors are R's, I live in TN...When I say R's in my posts, I am referring to the R's of the elite class and their followers. I am a Democrat, I have many conservative ideals as well, I am fiscally conservative, I am not anti-war. I am socially liberal. I have a strong relationship with Jesus Christ but do not feel the need to cram it down the throats of those who believe differently, and I do not think America should ever be a Church State, that would be the very opposite of what our Constitution stands for...I also believe in personal responsibility, but WILL NOT shove that down the throat of a struggling family...It is ALL of our personal responsibility to fix this mess WE created. There should be no division, we all made a mess, we all make mistakes, and nobody is right all the time....both parties have corrupt members and both need to hear from US who hired them and are paying their salaries.
++++ Now ya talking my language
As far as "we made the mess" , I think we got hijacked decades ago by some elites that pretend they represent the respective parties. At the top, I don't think there is two parties. There's one club, and we aint members.
Sorry I am old and grouchy: my back is messed up and my computer has been experiencing mechanical problems and has begun frustrating me.
Sometimes I wish we could get rid of the senate, congress and executive branch and hire 12 people off the street at random, kind of like a jury and put them in charge. I think it could be no worse than what we got now.
Now I just knew if we talked long enough we would find common ground I agree 100% that at the top it's one group and one agenda and we are not members. This is why I believe that incumbants make promises and can not keep those promises once in office. I also agree that we should fire all of them and yes 12 people straight off the street could probably do no worse.
I also believe we have been hijacked by an elite class who have all the money and all the power and make sure to legislate to keep it that way. I'm very hopeful about us Americans. We just have to wake up the masses by any means possible within our laws.
I am sorry about your back, I have severe arthritis in my lower back, and it sure can make me grumpy as well. I hope your computer gets its act together,lol...I have had the same day my friend, my microwave decided to poop out today, they just don't make things like they used too...(probably because its all made in China )
Thank you so much. I thought my computer was completely broke but may have been just a faulty mouse extension/usb.wire Its an old computer so was thinking the worse. Sorry to hear about your microwave, I cant live without mine, so I hear ya there. I hope that we can make our country better some how, some way.
I knew from the beginning that this would be the result.
This is exactly what you get when people corruptly elected a persone who has no respect for life, liberty, or the pursuit of happiness.
This is seen through research of the communities that President Obama destroyed as a local operator who did not respect the lives of those living in the poverty communities.
Instead of improving the incomes of those families in his support communities, he moved those individuals to other distressed communities where they continued to live in poverty.
Meanwhile, the previous areas where those people lived were converted to high-cost condos so the elite of the workforce could live closer to downtown amusement operations.
While Obama worked with his wealthy benefactors, he moved the distressed families further away from hospitals, their work locations, and community support. This caused all of the distressed families further distress through increased costs to live.
The deceiver then moved from local to state and finally federal leadership where he also took care of his benefactors while never relieving the distressed.
Thus the society is on a downhill spiral for the next 4 years.
Buckle up, because it is gonna be a rough ride.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/poli … o/1899391/
CHICAGO — From the violence-plagued neighborhood where a young Barack Obama cut his teeth as a community organizer, activist Diane Latiker watched the president deliver his election night victory speech. She felt a certain pride as he called for an America that was open to the "young boy on the South Side of Chicago who sees life beyond the nearest street corner."
Latiker also felt a pang of frustration that the president hadn't made addressing the issues of poverty and economic despair, so pervasive in her neighborhood and in some of the nation's most violent cities, a higher priority during his first term in office.
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