any opinions on this?
I think there is way too much dependence on governments as it is...this is just ludicrous, what has happened to common sense...promoting illegal activity and taxing citizens to pay for it
this is so wrong on so many levels, this is not how you help others
http://www.wnd.com/2013/04/feds-caught- … oreigners/
But, but, everyone has a basic human right to food, shelter, medication, a job, a car, a house!
Even people who have broken the law to get into our country! We can't just let them not-steal-money-from-hardworking-Americans! We HAVE to take care of everybody!
Ahh the enthusiasm some have for letting others starve is something I will never understand, but of course if I claim that it's a tragic lack of compassion and basic human value that would be unthinkable
The program is specifically for children and specifically for food, so I am not being facetious when I say that the opposition to this program is based on the willingness to see children starve... Frankly I can't think of anything more morally repulsive.
...only limited minds can conceive of such
there is always a way to do things better, that doesn't mean they are wrong. to interpret another as you have done you show your own limitations of conception of compassion manifest
Where's your compassion for the victims of illegal aliens? Yes, we need to make sure that innocent children don't starve. That's absolutely true. What about all the rape and murder victims of illegal aliens? Should we do something for them? When are we going to secure our borders so we can assure, to the best of our ability, that good people enter our country for work? At what point is there going to be some compassion for those of us who live in a border state?
Facts: (source CBS, Department of Homeland Security, and Arizona Department of Corrections - 2010)
14.8 percent of Arizona prisoners are illegal aliens, but they only account for 7 percent of Arizona’s population.
40 percent of all prisoners serving time for kidnapping in Arizona are illegal aliens.
24 percent of all prisoners serving for drug crimes in Arizona are illegal aliens.
13 percent of all prisoners serving time for murder in Arizona are illegal aliens.
Phoenix is ranked second in the world for kidnapping. Most kidnappers are illegal aliens who flee to Mexico.
When will we be worried about being compassionate for the victims in Arizona and other border states?
Wrong again. And you miss the point as USUAL.
Says the guy who probably gets some kind of sadistic pleasure each time a commercial with starving children comes on the air. "Mmmm, that's right. Starve, you non-Americans! Your location of birth makes you inferior to me!"
Because children starving is bad? Which would be why the flier particularly focuses on them, the children are completely innocent of any crime and often find themselves in a new country where their parents have not been able to find work and starve.
This distinction that we make between Americans that deserve to not starve to death and Mexicans that may as well be something we scraped off our shoes and oh well if their children starve is very disturbing to me.
I think that the US gov't is getting more from the illegal immigrants.
I read it somewhere that they do contribute in terms of taxes. I can't find the link anymore but in this link proceed to the section
Taxes contributed by illegal immigrants
"Most arguments against illegal immigration begin with the premise that the illegal don't pay income taxes, and that they therefore take more in services than they contribute. However, IRS estimates that about 6 million unauthorized immigrants file individual income tax returns each year. Research reviewed by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office indicates that between 50 percent and 75 percent of unauthorized immigrants pay federal, state, and local taxes. Illegal immigrants are estimated to pay in about $7 billion per year into Social Security. Most illegal immigrants pay sales, federal and state income taxes. In addition, they spend millions of dollars per year, which supports the US economy and helps to create new jobs. The Texas State Comptroller reported in 2006 that the 1.4 million illegal immigrants in Texas alone added almost $18 billion to the state's budget, and paid $1.2 billion in state services they used.
The Social Security and Medicare contributions of undocumented immigrants directly support older Americans, as illegal immigrants are not eligible to receive these services. The Internal Revenue Service issues an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN) regardless of immigration status because both resident and nonresident aliens may have Federal tax return and payment responsibilities under the Internal Revenue Code. Federal tax law prohibits the IRS from sharing data with other government agencies including the INS. In 2006 1.4 million people used ITIN when filing taxes, of which more than half were illegal immigrants."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_i … ted_States
or go here so you can check it some more
https://www.google.com/search?q=estimat … p;ie=UTF-8
Of course illegal aliens pay some tax. Don't liberals like to use the term "fair share" when it comes to taxes? Well, do illegal aliens pay their fair share? No.
Very, very few will pay even a portion of what they receive in benefits back in taxes. Successful drug dealers, maybe, but no laborer working under the table for 1/2 the going wage is going to.
I like to see a data from gov't, how much do they get - social services. Are they entitled to it?
I would hope only American citizens are entitled to it but I really don't know. If they have children here the child is a citizen and is entitled and the entire family will benefit. There is a reason to come here and work is not always it.
As a demographer I can just say that if the country they are coming from is not a war torn area, the reason for migration is always in search of a better future i.e., better jobs aside from intermarriage.
I really think that US government is getting more from the illegal immigrants in terms of the taxes they are collecting from them than the cost of having them here.
Here check factcheck.org to see the cost of illegal immigrants.
It said "So, how much do illegal immigrants cost federal, state and local governments in the U.S.? Estimates vary widely, and no consensus exists. The Urban Institute put the net national cost at $1.9 billion in 1992; a Rice University professor, whose work the Urban Institute criticized, said it was $19.3 billion in 1993. More recently, a 2007 report by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office examined 29 reports on state and local costs published over 15 years in an attempt to answer this question.
CBO concluded that most of the estimates determined that illegal immigrants impose a net cost to state and local governments but "that impact is most likely modest." CBO said "no agreement exists as to the size of, or even the best way of measuring, that cost on a national level."
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/04/cost-o … mmigrants/
Further check this if you have the time ; 2007 US CBO study by the Government about the cost of illegal immigrant.
http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/ … ration.pdf
Sounds right to me. How can you find the cost of illegal medical care when there are no records? Or the cost of unemployment benefits when the illegal is working under the table, without records, and you don't know how many jobs were lost? Even the schooling costs - around here schools are forbidden to ask for citizenship records of any kind. How do you know if a driver without insurance is illegal?
It's all a guess, and the vast majority of guesses aren't going to take into account a large portion of the costs the country pays.
I think they check it with tax name paid by illegals and if it does not match with the name in the US government databank, it means that the worker is illegal. That is for tax.
I think that if you don't have social security number, you are not entitled to unemployment benefits.
Hospitals need to have a clear data about emergency expenses on illegals.I think they deport them if the cost is too much.
The tax records; if the illegal has a job, then some citizen does not. Whereupon there's unemployment and whatever other welfare the citizen can get, but that won't be recorded as a cost for these studies. If the citizen loses their house for lack of work, that isn't counted either. Or the free lunch the kids now get, along with the illegal kids.
Hospitals can't have that data - I can't see an illegal announcing that to the hospital. Once in a while they might catch on - I did see a report where a handful have been deported back to Mexico after they were stabilized - but the vast majority will simply disappear back into the shadows without anyone ever knowing they were here illegally.
It's these kinds of things that make it all guesswork, and it's the kinds of costs that are incurred when a citizen loses a job to an illegal that are ignored.
There are many sources that discount this and clearly indicate that illegal aliens cost more than what your sources suggest. Still, I appreciate your footwork.
Let's look at this in lives lost and ruined. Can you really put a price on how many Americans have died? At what point is the government going to do its part to keep American citizens safe? When millions of illegal aliens enter our country, we don't have any idea why they are here. Some are here for employment. Some are here for crime. All I am saying is that many illegal aliens are killing, raping, and kidnapping Americans, and our government justifies it by saying they are undocumented workers here to earn money; they help our economy. Can you really make a blanket statement like that about any demographic? We need to know who is in our country and for what purpose.
Then, some would justify illegal aliens entering our country by saying, despite facts to the contrary, that they commit crimes at the same rate as Americans. Tell that to the parent of a child who is the victim of an illegal alien. How many American lives must be lost or destroyed before America has illegal alien control?
How many more lives have been saved by being protected from the comparative crime rates in Mexico? How many children have been able to grow up safely, get a better education, live happier lives?
Many more than the lives you raise, can we put a price on them? TO me the price of those lives is no lower because they happen to be born in another country.
I understand the mantra of "its for the kids" is the liberal answer to everything but these kids have adults with them that are committing crimes in our country. This is just to expand the liberal voting base and we all know it.
Not just for the kids, humans in general but actually I was simply responding in the same vein as the original comment.
Illegals are not allowed to vote and the vast majority live in deep red border states that are nevr going to go democratic in the foreseeable future anyway.
The "it's for the kids" is much more a conservative manta btw: Abortion, pornography, same sex marriage etc. Probably the most famous usage of the phrase was in Anita Byrant's "Save our Children" campaign to make discriminating against gay people legal again.
Arizona is up for grabs in the next ten years. It was conservative but is becoming more liberal. That was a point both Obama and Romney made.
The whole world is always becoming more liberal, it has nothing to do with immigration and everything to do with dumb ideas dying out.
The youth is pretty much always more liberal and people become more liberal as they age therefore that never changes.
http://www.livescience.com/2360-busting … l-age.html
I was more liberal in my youth but just like most people I know I became more conservative. I don't think our country has done very well on the liberal slide we've been on since the 60's.
As for doing better well Americans are much better off than we were in the 50s economically. Not to mention ask any minority how much better things were for them in the 50s
I was not offering it up as evidence just a statement. I'm not talking about life for any particular group but life in general.
All of those groups easily make up the majority of Americans, especially since women are actually a majority.
If you were white, American, male and a conservative then things were still not as good economically.
You really think our country is a much better place to live now? I'm not talking about politics just life in general.
Factually speaking it is and as I said certainly is for anyone who is not white and or male.
Because you said it is better? I don't know many people who would agree that we are living in very good times economically or otherwise. Most white males I know are doing just fine, they would be the only groups of people I know that are doing just fine though. Your reports of their demise is greatly exaggerated.
Well we are wealthier than we were in the 50s.
As for white males obviously they are still the best off group it's just the separation is much smaller.
Pro-Tip: Leave It to Beaver is not a documentary of actual everyday life during the 1950s. Despite what that brainless sitcom would have you believe, the 1950s were a horrible time to be anything but a rich white male.
undocumented worker = undocumented domocrat
What about the American kids who are being murdered, raped, and provided with drugs? Where is their compassion for those kids?
They are concerned for those kids in the gun debate. Its always the kids.
Yes, but when it doesn't serve their purpose, they don't seem to care. . . I have yet to hear one liberal or socialist talk about compassion for the victims of illegal aliens. Talk about guns, and it's all about compassion though.
I don't believe in gun control and you were the one who raised the rhetorical "for the children" argument despite the fact that your argument in it's success would cause the death of many more children.
This is rich. How many times have we heard you talk about compassion? It's a matter of record. Then, when it doesn't serve your purpose, you turn your head to the murders, rapings, and kidnappings of so many. You have no credibility on this subject now.
By the way, it's equals it is. It’s not a possessive.
Some pay taxes using issued Individual Taxpayer Identification Numbers (ITINs). The problem is the majority does not, a potential benefit is there but we are not experiencing it.
What, besides more mouths to feed, bodies to heal, children to educate, etc.?
Or (gasp) are you insinuating that illegal aliens vote illegally for the politicians that will give all that to them?
I know it's hard, but don't let the facts get in the way of your manufactured outrage.
http://www.snaptohealth.org/snap/snap-f … questions/
"Can undocumented immigrants use SNAP?
No. Undocumented immigrants are not (and never have been) eligible for SNAP benefits. Documented immigrants can only receive SNAP benefits if they have resided within the United States for at least five years (with some exceptions for refugees, children, and individuals receiving asylum)."
Of course, you can still be upset that a tiny percentage of your tax dollars goes to feed children of immigrants, so all is not lost.
...did you find the facts on these commercials in foreign countries promoting US welfare?
did you read the article and find the facts on the points of the many ways this promotion is taking place.
do you really believe one "truth telling website" is telling the whole truth? who pays for their truth-telling?
... who's gullible ?
Yes, I read the article and went to the original source, which I had to Google since it was not linked to in the article.
Children of documented immigrants are eligible for the program. Children who are born in the U.S. are eligible, if one of their parents is a documented immigrant.
Seriously, even if you consider this to be a waste of taxpayer money, it's a drop in the bucket compared to waste in defense and homeland security, which for some odd reason, doesn't seem to be an issue with the Outrage-of-the-Week Club.
...not when you add it to the overall welfare situation, including the American citizens it continues to corrupt from a healthy lifestyle
...it is not conspiracy to recognize the depth of corruption going on into the human psyche by programs of the government
...you can't just look at one source of explanation and then ride off the whole issue perception...if you do you have been corrupted in your thinking; the trail of corruption is long and many faceted, and the people are the ones that suffer
...there are much much much better ways of building a healthy society and truly helping people
You that is in fact the law, only children are applicable for the benefits.
...the fact is, only adults receive the money/stamps and can purchase the things children need...you think there is no abuse of privlege going on?
I have no doubt some does but I have not met any parents in my life who would not feed their children if they can so it's far better than the alternative.
I know and I believe that true compassion is teaching someone how to fish instead of just giving them a fish. Though that given fish may need to be the first step, it is not to be the last. Our system is wrongly done and a corrupted version of truth. period. there are better ways of doing things.
I agree that there is more we could be doing but this is the first step, simple as that, lacking alternatives for that first step it is the only moral action.
Yes, of course. Do you propose to let the children go hungry in the meantime?
...now see...that is the kind of reply I am talking about when I say stop blaming/claiming someone else is wrong or totally uncompassionate...that mindset has got to go, there must be mutual good will for things to move forward for the common good
Okay, then what would you propose? A child is hungry and her parents are not providing food. What would you propose?
...hand the child food and help the parent find a job...
I wish it were as easy as providing one simple answer to situations, but every scenario is unique.
There are so many facets to a situation. The end result we are seeing at this singular point in time is the result of many steps up to it. The changes in the steps need to be effected.
Believe it or not, I have tried to come up with what to do. When it is just me helping someone in the moment, or going somewhere to help someone in the now with what is available, is one thing. but when we have to start thinking about changing the steps large groups of people come to, its significantly harder.
From my own experience, the more people and systems created to solve the more problems, the more problems that are created.
Many things would need to be done at the same time.
Soooo, 1. I pray for infinite legions of angels to affect and coordinate those people making changes within themselves to help themselves and their own children, and I pray the same for those people that are finding ways and means to helping them. 2. AND I do what I can within my life realm 3. AND speak up or act as I can to those people making decisions for larger groups.
Those three things are my answer.... I am serious... so, here I am on hubpages, or at my jobs, or with my own family, or sending letters and signing petitions to governments and groups, marching in support of change, donating as possible.
every single person, even those that are in dire straits with their children, have to work or reach out for their own needs, abide by the laws of the land, appeal at perceived injustices in non-violent ways,
and get out of office government officials not doing their jobs
there is no one human solution to the big problems we have now...only the miracles of faith, prayer, and actions through the hands and hearts of the people will bring the big changes that need to be made.
So you would let some children starve because some children's parents might abuse the system?
...yeah, lets take care of them by teaching them to care for themselves by legal means
...by setting up a system that examples honesty and integrity, not just a hand out other peoples money
...the current way and means does nothing but corrupt a person's sense of dignity and ability to care for themselves
It seems like the US is going the same way as the UK where newly arrived immigrants recieve benefits, free social housing and medical care and free education.
"...hand the child food and help the parent find a job..."
Um, that is what government programs do. They don't do it perfectly, but no one stays on unemployment, welfare, or pretty much any government assistance (except for the disabled, elderly, etc.) indefinitely. They have training programs to get people off of them.
What does it benefit the United States to advertise benefits to citizens of other countries? We shouldn't be recruiting more mouths to feed.
Does the US gov't accept applications of food stamps if you don't have social security?
About taxes, this has more to do with employers.
I got this from my link above and what is the reason for this?
"Federal tax law prohibits the IRS from sharing data with other government agencies including the INS."
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