America now is in a precarious state socioeconomically with an

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  1. gmwilliams profile image84
    gmwilliamsposted 7 years ago

    http://s1.hubimg.com/u/9149580_f520.jpg
    Immigrants with relevant skills/education ENHANCE American socioeconomic quality of life. They should be ENCOURAGED to come to America.

    unemployment rate above normal.  Yes, there are Americans who are unemployed or underemployed in addition to others suffering socioeconomically(through no fault of their own).  Inductive and deductive logic dictates that with the current American socioeconomic crises to keep immigration at a strict minimum until the American economy has somewhat improved.  Or better yet, allow only these immigrants who have relevant skills/education to help boast the economy and to add to America's high standard of living and quality of life. 

    However, such is NOT the case as inverse logic is operating regarding immigration.  The "amnesty" program has allowed thousands of illegals in this country, the overwhelming majority of whom have no skills/education whatsoever.  In addition to that, many of these illegals are carrying dangerous, communicable diseases, and there are some among them who are criminals.   These illegals are using our welfare and social systems at a high cost to the taxpayer.   It is time to severely streamline our immigration policy to allow only those immigrants who have relevant educational and job skills as to better and advance the economy, not to accept immigrants who have little or nothing to better/advance the American economy.  What are YOUR thought on this?

    http://s1.hubimg.com/u/9149610_f248.jpg
    Conversely, these immigrants/illegals have NO skills/education. They will use our welfare and social systems, SUBTRACTING from American socioeconomic quality of life. They should be DISCOURAGED from coming to America and DEPORTED if they do immigrate to America.

    1. profile image0
      Old Poolmanposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      gmwilliams - I would love to meet you in a coffee shop and spend a few hours discussing this very subject but that will most likely never happen.  There is so much wrong with our current immigration policies It would take a book sized response to fully cover your comments.

      Anyone who doesn't fully agree with allowing these "children" to continue entering our country illegally is immediately labeled as a heartless racist.  For many of these "children", their only crime was being born in the wrong country.  Many of our own citizens really don't comprehend how lucky they are to have been born in the USA.

      If our own ship was in shape I would have no problem with allowing these "children" to come aboard by a legal process to include background and health screening.  To throw out the welcome mat and pretend the border doesn't exist is just plain wrong.  Our own ship is in terrible shape.  Our educational standards and job opportunities continue to decline for our own youth, yet little or nothing is being done about this.  To add millions of unskilled "children" to our own unskilled youth base is just plain wrong.

      Our governments answer to everything is MONEY.  Just throw money at a problem with no real plan in mind and maybe the problem will just go away.   It won't, and we all know that.  We are doing absolutely nothing to educate and teach our own youth job skills that will support them and improve the economy of this country.  We instead allow them to become young adults who are dependent on their parents and government handouts until they are well into their 20's and even 30's.  Now we want to add a few million more to this totally dependent base of youth.

      I have a suspicious nature and firmly believe this decline in education and opportunity for our youth is deliberate and intentional.  It is far more difficult to control someone who is not dependent on you for their basic needs.  Even though the plan is working well, perhaps the dumbing down and dependency program is falling behind schedule and needs a shot in the arm to catch up.  What better way could there be than to open our borders to a few million more "children" who will instantly qualify for the dependency plan?

      Our government has now officially labeled this as a Humanitarian Crisis.  It was a planned and created crisis that is so important that all of those we elected to watch out for our best interests have gone on a 5 week vacation.  I'm somewhat surprised they didn't give the Border Patrol 5 weeks off except they are so busy changing diapers and trying to keep all these illegal "children" alive they couldn't do this.

      Bottom line is this entire crises was planned and executed to create even further dependency on our government.  It is all about POWER and CONTROL and nothing more.  There is not even a little bit of Humanitarian concern for these illegal "children" flooding into our country.  This plan may well be the final nail in the coffin of the once great United States of America.

      1. gmwilliams profile image84
        gmwilliamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        I know I have been verbally raked over the coals in the forums because I am against this amnesty program.   Obama and his minions are destroying this country as a result of this "program."   Our social systems are going to be exhausted as these illegals have no contributable skills nor education.   They have communicable diseases because there are no health checks.  There are even criminals and gang members among them.   

        As an Arizonian, you are quite familiar as to how the influx of illegals has a negative impact in your communities.   I believe that there need to be more stringent immigration regulations.   Only those who have contributable skills which will benefit American society should be allowed to enter.   God bless, Old Poolman.  I have a suspicion that this amnesty program is used to destroy American society.   America is going to be bankrupt because of this.   I am really sickened over this.  Why? Why? Why? This is a nightmare. 

        American society presently is in a socioeconomic depression.  There is enough socioeconomic problems in America without adding more.  Let's fix our socioeconomic problems first.  Oh well, I am exhausted by this.  I am angry at what our beautiful country is becoming.  We have to protest this.

        1. profile image0
          Old Poolmanposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          gmwilliams - Based on my earlier comment many will label me as some kind of conspiracy nut who doesn't care about these "children."  I would have to ask them why we continue to give millions and billions of dollars called foreign aid to the very countries these "children" are leaving?

          What would happen if we told the governments of those countries that the checks would stop coming if they don't use some of this money to take better care of their own citizens?  Most of this foreign aid money we continue to send never gets to the people, it makes those countries rich and powerful even more rich and powerful.

          I would be all for completely stopping foreign aid until our own youth are cared for.  I don't mean cared for with expanded welfare and entitlement programs.  I mean by providing them with good educations and job opportunities.  Even in the worst of our ghettos called public housing, there are youth with the brain power to become most anything they would choose to be.  Yet most will never get the educational opportunity to use these powerful brains for the good of the country.  Even those with less powerful brains could be taught skills that would serve them well and make them productive members of society.

          This many apparent "mistakes" on the part of of leaders is no accident.  They are not stupid, well some of them at least are not stupid, and they know exactly what is going on.

          It is now so out of control that I doubt we will ever get it back on track again.

          1. gmwilliams profile image84
            gmwilliamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            In TOTAL agreement with you Old Poolman!

    2. Quilligrapher profile image81
      Quilligrapherposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Good morning, Grace.

      You are wrong. You are so wrong. Your claims stem from false fears and ignorance. It is pitiful to see such hate from my fellow Americans. Those who repeat such obvious lies without first doing some medical research are needlessly spreading hysteria. For America, this brand of ignorance is more dangerous than the non-existing diseases. 

      Obviously, these fear mongers are not intelligent enough to ask their handlers questions like…
      what dangerous communicable diseases?
      who are the doctors making these claims?
      what is the number of cases being uncovered?
      where is the statistical data?
      where are the facts?

      There are no answers to these questions, Grace. No facts, none, not any, nada. Immigrants entering this country are NOT carrying any diseases on a scale greater than normal. Medical professionals on the Mexican border keep repeating this message but some pathetic ideologues choose not to listen. Anyone unable to back up wild claims with facts usually has no respect for the truth.

      With three clicks you can learn that Mexico, Honduras, Guatemala, and El Salvador ALL have vaccination rates for measles HIGHER then the United States. That is right, Grace, vaccination rates higher than in the United States! {1}

      Both Mexico and Guatemala have higher DPT vaccination rates than in the United States. {2}

      I wonder who is telling you immigrants are disease ridden. It is false. Furthermore, since you can not determine how many immigrants carry disease, you obviously have no way to count the criminal records either.

      In short, your post contains the most ill-informed collection of vicious trash that I have seen in a long while. I know you can do better than this.

      Those who do not take the steps to verify this slanderous drivel get to share their lack of ethics with the liars.
      http://s2.hubimg.com/u/6919429.jpg
      {1} http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.IMM.MEAS
      {2} http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH. … /countries

      1. Quilligrapher profile image81
        Quilligrapherposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Hello Grace.

        I am still wondering if you intend to support your vicious claims about “illegals are carrying dangerous, communicable diseases.” Having made the claim, you should be prepared to support it by answering a few simple questions:

        What dangerous communicable diseases?
        Who are the doctors making these claims?
        What is the number of cases being uncovered?
        Where is the statistical data?
        Where are the facts?

        I believe your claims are false and malicious. I am waiting for you to prove me wrong.
        http://s2.hubimg.com/u/6919429.jpg

        1. Susana S profile image93
          Susana Sposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          I think you'll be waiting a while, if not forever, Quill. GMwilliams would not allow things like facts and evidence get in the way of her hate filled opinions.

          BTW: I always make time to read your posts Quill, they are amazingly informative. Brilliant stuff!

          1. gmwilliams profile image84
            gmwilliamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            http://s1.hubimg.com/u/9159510_f248.jpg

            Don't listen to reason but when it hits the fan, I am just going to say-TOLD YOU SO, TOLD YOU SO, TOLD YOU SO!

            Here are the links:
            http://www.wnd.com/2014/07/savage-media … se-threat/
            http://www.usillegalaliens.com/impacts_ … eases.html

            1. Quilligrapher profile image81
              Quilligrapherposted 7 years agoin reply to this

              Hello Grace. My thanks to you for providing these two links.

              First, there is no need to promote hysteria if your conclusions are based on solid facts. Facts speak for themselves, they stand on their own merits and they eliminate the need for emotional uppercase shouting.

              Following your first link was very informative. WND.com focuses on Michael Savage, a notorious conservative radio personality since 1994 who claims to be an epidemiologist. In 2005, he published Liberalism is a Mental Disorder, a volume more political than scientific.

              Did you read this article about Mr. Savage, Grace, and did you notice there is not one actual documented case of disease among immigrants? Like all of your posts, it is all rhetoric and no verifiable facts.

              The article quotes Mr. Savage as saying: “Right now, you’re not going to hear this, but we have Tuberculosis, hand-foot-and-mouth disease, Chagas disease – previously eradicated from Southern California – on the rise and testing positive in … Border Patrol agents.” Other diseases emerging among Border Patrol agents, he said, include H1N1 Swine flu and chicken pox. {1}

              It seems Mr. Savage warns about several illnesses but documents no cases among immigrants. He also chooses to ignore the reality that all of the illnesses he mentioned occur regularly in the US with or without immigration.

              As for incidents involving immigrants, his article does not support your claims and, to the contrary, it answers all of the following questions with “NONE.” 

              Who are the doctors making these claims?
              What dangerous communicable diseases were found among immigrants?
              What is the number of cases being uncovered?
              Where is the statistical data?
              Where are the documented facts?

              Your second source has no meaningful bearing on today’s topic. It is a xenophobic attack against all illegal immigrants for causing all the country’s ills “from the costs of education to traffic congestion to the impact of having a bilingual society.” {2}

              While certainly verbose, it is far from a scholarly work. It is dishonest, biased, flawed and designed to distort facts in a far-from-subtle attempt to indict immigrants. Your false claims rely on this faulty data.

              On the “chapter” covering diseases, I found this:
              “In the 40 years prior to 2002, there were only 900 total cases of leprosy in the US. In the following three years there have been 9,000 cases and most were illegal aliens.”  {3}

              The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services data for Hansen’s Disease (leprosy) indicates the total number of new cases reported from 1962 to 2002, “the 40 years prior to 2002,” was 8,322 not 900 as represented by Mr. Wagner. New cases reported “in the following three years” turns out to be 431 and not 9000! {4}

              “9000 cases” in Mr. Wagner’s article appears to be grossly exaggerating the facts, Grace, but it was underlined as a hyperlink to another super biased WND article dated MAY 22, 2005 with the title “ARE ILLEGALS MAKING U.S. A LEPER COLONY?” (I always know I am about to be conned when an article title is in the form of a question instead of a statement of fact!) This article contained more misinformation and more false claims.

              A dozen or so paragraphs accuse immigrants in the Southwest of threatening the nation with an epidemic of leprosy and fraudulently scheming to receive free healthcare. Had you burrowed down into your own sources, you would have found the following three sentences at the very end:

              “Dr. Denis Daumerie, head of the World Health Organization’s leprosy-elimination program, thinks claims of immigrants causing a spike in U.S. leprosy are overstated.
              “There is no risk of an epidemic of leprosy,” he told Columbia. “There’s absolutely no risk that the few immigrants who are affected by the disease, if they are diagnosed and treated, will spread the disease in the U.S.”
              {5}

              Whoops! Just a small fact the source of your emotional posts just chose to ignore.
              http://s1.hubimg.com/u/9161738_f248.jpg
              Even this uninformed graphic in your post lists leprosy as one of the diseases at the border. Well, Grace, here are the real facts about leprosy that you seem unable to determine for yourself:

              *A genetic study at the National Hansen’s Disease Program reports that armadillos may be the source of leprosy infection in the southern United States. {6}

              *There are currently approximately 6,500 cases in the entire US today and only about 3,300 require active medical management.

              *I thought this would be of particular interest to you, Grace. Ninety-five percent (95%) of the human population is not susceptible to infection with M. leprae, the bacteria that causes Hansen's disease (leprosy).

              *Patients become noninfectious after taking only a few doses of medication and need not be isolated from family and friends.

              *There were only 213 new cases reported in the U.S. in 2009 (the most recent year for which data are available).

              Well, Grace, should I panic because Mr. Savage to looking to improve his ratings or should I rely on the facts as I know them. I already know that you choose to panic.

              As to the important questions about rampant disease among immigrants, Grace, I continue to wait for your answers:

              Who are the doctors making these claims?
              What dangerous communicable diseases were found among immigrants?
              What is the number of cases being uncovered?
              Where is the statistical data?
              Where are the documented facts?

              I sincerely thank you for posting these two links thinking that they would prove your attacks against immigrants are justified. Unfortunately, they offer no supporting data only more of the same hysterical distortions. Just like your other posts, the authors offer no verifiable data to establish your claims deserve any serious consideration at all.
              http://s2.hubimg.com/u/6919429.jpg
              {1} http://www.wnd.com/2014/07/savage-media … se-threat/
              {2} http://www.usillegalaliens.com/
              {3} http://www.usillegalaliens.com/impacts_ … eases.html
              {4} http://www.hrsa.gov/hansensdisease/casesbyyear.html
              {5} http://www.wnd.com/2005/05/30436/
              {6} www.hrsa.gov/hansensdisease/

              1. Sychophantastic profile image90
                Sychophantasticposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                Quill,

                You make those of us who respect logic and fact proud.

                Grace's conclusions appear to be made based on lies and hyperbole.

    3. tsmog profile image77
      tsmogposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      1/3 of all immigration is unauthorized at about 11.4 million. Over 25% are in Calif and over 14% in Texas. Generally they do not receive federal benefits. From Marco Rubio's (Republican Senator - Florida) http://www.rubio.senate.gov/public/inde … 2e739be1b0 is support for that claim. Take it as a grain of salt thrown over the shoulder. It explains it thoroughly, however acceptance is a variable.

      The federal government cost for unauthorized immigrates is 29M of 113M for aid. Over 84M is costs to a state. The total federal cost for entitlements is 2.34 trillion. That means fed costs for unauthorized immigrants was without doing the math kinda' miniscule. [Source: Federation for American Immigration Reform http://www.fairus.org/news/illegal-immi … -taxpayers and Forbes http://www.forbes.com/sites/othercommen … l-revenues]

      That does not say illegal immigration is not a problem, however it does not seem to be a federal economic problem other than protecting the borders. That has been 9billion over the past 10 years. I have concerns of where the direction of illegal immigration is headed and protecting our borders, yet I have more concerns where I am today with regard to social security, medicare, and medicaid. Those are the bulk of that 2.34 trillion. In other words metaphorically taking away someones pizza to give me a band aid when I need my broken arm set does not seem to be the answer.

  2. gmwilliams profile image84
    gmwilliamsposted 7 years ago

    This admnistration wants to dismantle America in anyway it can.  They know that America has internal problems but they really could care less.  Their main concern are the illegals for whatever surreptitious reason.

  3. Sychophantastic profile image90
    Sychophantasticposted 7 years ago

    I actually do agree with the basic premise that we need to control our border and severely limit immigration. Our social net is already overburdened. I just wish the language being used didn't sound so racist. There are good, sane arguments for controlling our borders and limiting immigration. I also do think that since we're applying certain criteria to the value of these immigrants, we should apply those same criteria to our own population. We could deport those with no skills. We could deport those with low IQs. We could deport racists. Pretty simple things and they would really make our country a much better place to live with nicer people in it who contribute more to society as a whole.

    1. gmwilliams profile image84
      gmwilliamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      +1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000!

  4. Sychophantastic profile image90
    Sychophantasticposted 7 years ago

    If you're getting your "facts" from Fox News, it would explain much. There have been many studies that show the "facts" on Fox News are mostly inaccurate.

  5. Sami Hanson profile image81
    Sami Hansonposted 7 years ago

    Immigration is such a touchy issue, but I have taken so many college Spanish courses that I have such respect for families that risk everything to come to this country. It comes down to a battle of who are we letting into this country? Refugees or Rebels? However, I do not appreciate the insensitive remarks about how immigrants from our South border have absolutely no skills, especially compared to those coming from Asia or Europe.

    We are a capitalist country, no? If there is every a question about the unemployment rate, do not blame the illegals for taking those jobs. Those poor, desperate individuals are exploited for their labor to almost being indentured servants because companies can pay them way less than they would have to pay an American citizen. Due to fear of being deported and trying to provide, companies exploit the labor of immigrants. Plus, they end up doing the jobs that nobody else WANTS to do. So do not blame immigration for the unemployment rate ---- blame capitalistic principles. No one would hesitate if they could produce twice the product and double their profits to doubly outweigh the marginal costs of that production.

    Also, everyone here is an immigrant aside from the Native Americans. We all had to come here, and the poor Irish were treated terribly during the Industrial Revolution.

    I have worked with hard working Mexican, Central American, and South American immigrants. I have seen some deported also. All I can say is they are some of the most humble and hardworking individuals I have ever met. They want nothing more than to be called Americans. I cannot even say that a large portion of our popular follows that example. We have a bunch of lazy, self-entitled, uneducated individuals in this country who do NOTHING to better their lives despite living in a country with so many opportunities.

    Thank you, Quilligrapher, for all the factual information you provided. I couldn't agree more with everything you said.

    1. Susana S profile image93
      Susana Sposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      That's the thing for me right there. People who willing to leave their families, friends and everything they know to go to a new country in the face of extremely tough opposition and hardship deserve the utmost respect.

      They are the courageous. They are the adventurous. They are the hardworking (because they have to work to eat).  They are the innovative.

      They are the ones that will eventually make a real positive difference to the countries that they move to due to the very qualities that got them there in the first place.

 
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