What IS IT that many people refuse to get regarding illegals coming to

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   gmwilliamsposted 10 years ago

   
   America?   Don't they see that illegals are going to exhaust our social, medical, and health services?  Furthermore, since these illegals have no contributable skills nor education, many are going to be on welfare and we have enough people on welfare already without adding more to the system.  Not to mention, that criminals and gang members are coming along these illegals.  The illegals are causing havoc in the communities and farmlands, especially in California, Texas, and Arizona.  These illegals definitely AREN'T adding to the American fabric but are subtracting from it.  Can't people see the impact that these illegals are having on America?  While Obama and his administration see letting the illegals in as a "humanitarian" gesture, there are others who view letting the illegals in as a harbinger of the worsening, even the destruction of American society.   Smart, intelligent, and forward looking nations only promote immigration when it enhances and improves the American quality of life.   Smart, intelligent, and forward looking nations do not permit immigrants with no contributable skills into their country as such is unwise.  When will Obama wake up and see this before it is too late?

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      Old Poolmanposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      This is not a Humanitarian effort on the part of this administration.  It is all about getting votes and gaining more power.  If it was truly Humanitarian perhaps at least a few would have skipped their vacation this year?
      
      They invited these children to come, and they did come. They have known for months this was going to happen and did nothing to prepare for this huge influx of children that must be cared for.  These unfortunate children are being used as pawns in the giant chess game of politics.
      
      Who knows what the end result will be for we citizens.  I doubt there will be much help from the government who caused this mess.  They better oil up the national debt clock because it is going to be spinning faster than we have ever seen before.

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         gmwilliamsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Of course, you and I know this.  Obama and his minions want MORE democratic votes and they know that if they buy them, these illegals will be their pawns so to speak.   The Democratic party want to be in ULTIMATE and COMPLETE power.   
         
         The Democrats INTEND to be THE PARTY OF THE PEOPLE and will do anything to reach those ends.  After all, the illegals are powerless to protest right now as they are receiving all the amenities possible thanks to Poppa Obama and Mamma Pelosi.  I hate to state this but truth be told, Obama also want to change this country's demographics as a sort of payback. Obama sees the majority Americans as colonialists/oppressors and want to exact revenge in one way or another.
         
         It is sad to know that Obama and his minions are dividing America further upon racial and socioeconomic lines.  We are watching this nightmare unfold.  Sometimes I feel that I am dreaming,  Is this real but this is not a dream but a continual nightmare.    I have been called every name including racist, right winger, supremacists because I oppose Obama and his insane policies.  I am a Black, Liberal Democrat who see through this insane LIEberal rhetoric of Obama and his minions and I will not stand for it anymore.  Now I am mad and my blood pressure is rising.  I must calm down and go to sleep. 
         
         Don't people know that this immigration is unlike immigration in the past.  In the past, when immigrants came to this country, they had some contributable skill or education.  They wanted to be contributing Americans.  They wanted to be Americans period.  Not this bunch, they want the freebies, many of them are anti-American and are abetted by social groups.  This is becoming TOO MUCH.  Did I mention that some of these illegals are to be quartered at the PalmAire Hotel in Texas where there is a beauty parlor, a swimming pool, concierge service, and to other deluxe facilities?  This IS BEYOND RIDICULOUS.   I am as usual prepared to be raked over the forum coals again.  However, I really don't care.  This illegal situation is going beyond the logical. 
         
         P.S. A president who is logical would not advocate en masse immigration during precarious socioeconomic times.  Wouldn't his/her main concern be with improving American's socioeconomic climate first?  Wouldn't his/her concern will be the full employment of American citizens?   That is what a thinking/logical president would do. But then again, either Obama is missing on thinking/logic which I sincerely doubt or he is demonically apathetic to the socioeconomic plight of America.  I chose B.

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            GA Andersonposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            OMG!  Just when I thinkk you couldn't go farther over the edge... you continue to prove me wrong.
            
            Your posts make me think of the old stick-shift automobile analogy - "Be sure to depress clutch pedal before engaging the gear shift," - only in this case it might be more appropriate to twist it around a bit to; "Be sure to engage brain before depressing the keys on your keyboard." (or touch pad)
            
            There are usually so many easy targets in your responses -  but there is always at least one that stands out like a neon "Kick Me!" sign. In this case it was this one...
            
            "Don't people know that this immigration is unlike immigration in the past.  In the past, when immigrants came to this country, they had some contributable skill or education. "
            
            Do you really know so little about the immigration history of the U.S.? Have you heard of Ellis Island? The Irish immigrants of the late 19th early 20th century? And on, and on, and on...
            
            Come on GM. At least put a little meat, (like a fact here and there), on those tired old bones that struggle to support the ravings of your "patriotic" tirades.
            
            GA

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               gmwilliamsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               Mr. Anderson, Mr. Anderson, thank you for responding.  Now I shall respond to your post. Yes immigrants in the past endured discrimination particularly the Irish.  However, the Irish wanted to contribute to America.  They did not want freebies like the current illegals.  The Irish came to America as a result of the potato famine.  Many more came to America because of British oppression.  Many immigrants, especially Poles, Russians, and Jews immigrated to America because of oppression in the Austro-Hungarian and Tsarist Russian empires. 
               
               They had skills and wanted to contribute.  They WORKED, they IMPROVISED, and did not DRAIN the system unlike the current illegals.  I studied immigration extensively and read many books on immigration.  I DID a paper on immigration in college, THANK YOU.   The Irish and other immigrants in the 19th century and early 20th century had skills and education commensurate with the native population. 
               
               The former immigrants were not problematic.  They wanted to become Americans and see America as an honorable country.  They believed in hard work, saw handouts as a mortal transgression.  They learned the language. This current crop of illegals have NO skills NOR education commensurate to this postmodern economy.  Many of these illegals are going to end up on welfare which means that we taxpayers will end up footing the bill.  We don't need these illegals as they have nothing significant to contribute to the American fabric.  The earlier generation of immigrants WORKED when they arrived here; they were not on the dole like the current crop of illegals. 
               
               Now, Mr. Anderson, many immigrants who came to America in the middle to late 20th century did have some type of contributable skill or education.  They were not exactly illiterates.  Many such immigrants were moderately to highly educated in their native countries but left because of a change of government, war, or wanted a better life for themselves or their children.
               
               Mr. Anderson,  I know what I am talking about so don't get it misconstrued.  Immigrants in the 19th century has skills and education comparable to the native population.  They had some type of skills, whether it was farming or related skills.  They were also willing to work, do any type of work.   
               
               These illegals, it seems, have no contributable skills in comparison with the native population and that is why they are draining our social systems.  We don't need this drainage.  I shall be glad, even delighted to discuss 19th century and 20th century immigration with you, Mr. Anderson but that belongs on another thread.  I am for immigration but immigration of persons who possess moderate to high level skills and/or education that ENHANCES America, not drain nor subtract from America like the illegals are doing.

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                  John Holdenposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  "When the economy was strong, Irish immigrants to America were welcomed. But when boom times turned down, as they did in the mid-1850s, social unrest followed and it could be especially difficult for immigrants who were considered to be taking jobs from Americans. Being already low in the pecking order, the Irish suffered great discrimination. 'No Irish Need Apply' was a familiar comment in job advertisements. - See more at: http://www.irish-genealogy-toolkit.com/ … dpuf"

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                  GA Andersonposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  Well Damn! I guess you told me, and well done too!
                  
                  Although I still strongly disagree with your contentions, that was one well spoken response, and quite a refreshing change. Thanks.
                  
                  You are right that discussing immigrant skills of the early immigrants and today's immigrants is an apples and oranges comparison that is a topic for another thread.
                  
                  But to your list of reasons for their desire to immigrate; "...a result of the potato famine,  because of British oppression,  oppression in the Austro-Hungarian and Tsarist Russian empires..."
                  
                  Doesn't that sound a lot like the reasons our southern border's illegal immigrants are coming here? To escape criminal and governmental persecution and abuse? To escape very real threats to their lives? To strive for a better life for themselves and their families?
                  
                  I am very skeptical of your claim that the majority, (your responses make it sound like you think all of the them), are coming for the primary purpose of "getting on the "dole." Most of my readings tell me that although there some goofy government contradictions - like our Federal laws that prohibit illegal immigrants from receiving welfare assistance contrasted with an IRS policy that issues them identification numbers that can be used in place of SS numbers - for the most part illegal immigrants; 1) are denied access to our welfare system, and 2) generally "keep their heads down" in order to not draw attention to themselves and risk law enforcement engagement.
                  
                  I would venture that compared to the percentage of our U.S. population that participates in welfare assistance programs - the illegal immigrant participation would be a very very low percentage of their total number.
                  
                  On this point; "The former immigrants were not problematic." I would point you to New York City's infamous "Five Points" of the mid to late 1900s. An example that although noted as the most extreme, it was not the only municipality with this criminal immigrant problem.
                  
                  To this point; "They believed in hard work, saw handouts as a mortal transgression." -  I think the attitude towards "government money handouts" has changed for too many people, (not a good change), throughout the world.
                  
                  And this point; "They learned the language." I also strongly disagree. Regarding school age illegal immigrants - one of their first prerequisites is English classes. For the segment of illegals that try to stay under the public radar - I think they do make an effort to learn our language because besides needing to just to function in our economy, it also helps them seem less "obvious" in their public interactions.
                  
                  I am curious to hear the reasons you are so adamant that they are not willing or trying to learn our language.
                  
                  There is more, but I will leave that for later because I think I am beginning to sound like I support illegal immigration - which I don't.  But I also don't support such widely thrown, and in my opinion generally inaccurate, generalizations as you have been tossing out.
                  
                  On the plus side, I did get a much more rational sounding response out of you - didn't I?
                  
                  GA

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         GA Andersonposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         There are a lot of legitimately debatable points in GM's post - and your response, but this is not one of them...
         
         " If it was truly Humanitarian perhaps at least a few would have skipped their vacation this year?"
         
         Damn right! It is all about lip service. As in, "Of course this is important, and we will deal with it first thing in six weeks or so..."
         
         And I think you are right in your observation of this administrations, (which includes the Congress), culpability... "...They invited these children to come, and they did come."
         
         GA

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            Old Poolmanposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            Perhaps if they had a plan in place for dealing with this situation I could get that Humanitarian warm and fuzzy feeling, but they don't.  The only plan I have heard of so far is to throw a few Billion bucks at the problem and it will be OK.  Well it won't be OK.
            
            They were actually shocked that very few of these children were showing up for their immigration hearings and now they have no idea where they are.
            
            They are delivering these children to supposed relatives with no background check or even checking on the legal status of the relative.  We have no idea if the children being delivered are even related to them.
            
            We supposedly have no idea how many illegals are currently living in this country or where they are located.  Yet we can find them within a week or two to deliver them a child?
            
            There are just too many unknowns about this whole Humanitarian issue.  It was put in place with no plan to deal with it other than asking Congress for money.  They can't even say how the money they asked for would be used.   Sounds like a bunch of rookies trying to solve a problem they created.

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               gmwilliamsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               +1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 !

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               GA Andersonposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               I already have that feeling for the need of some kind of humanitarian solution for the "children" illegal immigrant crisis we are facing, but like you, I am not sure how to get there. I am sure I do not trust Washington to come up with a sensible solution.
               
               You made good points. I think the best one was this;
               "We supposedly have no idea how many illegals are currently living in this country or where they are located.  Yet we can find them within a week or two to deliver them a child?"
               
               GA

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      Sychophantasticposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Another good solution would be to give all illegal immigrants and legal immigrants IQ tests and keep the ones that score well and deport the ones that don't. In fact, that would be a pretty good solution for our own population. Deport everyone with an IQ under 100.

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         Zelkiiroposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         And whoosh! Suddenly the majority of the Republican party (particularly the Bible thumpers) is sent out to sea.
         
         Also, what is this soft "100 IQ" crap? If you're really gonna be serious about having an intelligent populace, at least set the barrier at 130.

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   gmwilliamsposted 10 years ago

   Old Poolman, America is becoming ONE, BIG WELFARE state.  We are THE NANNY state.   Newsflash: America is not responsible for the world.  Americans should take care of themselves and not to depend upon the government.  Immigrants should be allowed to come to America ONLY if they can WORK and CONTRIBUTE.   Any immigrant who CAN'T contribute, SEND THEM BACK, SEND THEM BACK!

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      Zelkiiroposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Outdated shortsighted clannish fear-mongering.
      
      Human beings are responsible for taking care of their fellow human beings if they're in need (and you don't get much more in-need than being born in a country run by cartel thugs). Period. End of story.

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         Old Poolmanposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Zelkiiro - That sounds great.  Have you seen the plan on how we are to accomplish this monumental task?  I didn't think so as there is none that I know of.

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            John Holdenposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            How many countries, and how much money have you spent, on revealing countries of their duly elected governments because they don't suit the American dream?

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               Old Poolmanposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               I don't know John so why don't you tell us?  If I remember correctly, your own country took part in some of these efforts and I wonder why the UK would support the "American Dream?"
               
               I know from previous conversations that you happen to be a huge fan of Socialism and I am not.  I much prefer less government control so we will most likely rarely agree on much of anything.
               
               From what I read, the UK is also having some serious problems in regards to immigration.  How about you write a hub on that subject so we can all join in?

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                  John Holdenposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  How about $trillions spent on influencing foreign governments? Some of that going on influencing the UK government which is why our government (of which ever party) always supports the USA right or wrong.
                  
                  I too much prefer less government control especially when it comes to government control of other countries.
                  Raising taxes to further imperialist aims is another form of government intervention that I object to, along with using the tax payers money to bail out corrupt capitalist enterprises.
                  
                  I don't recognise the serious immigration problems that the UK is supposed to have so I'm afraid a hub by me on that topic would be pretty boring.

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                     Old Poolmanposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                     John, how about the billions in foreign aid paid to countries that hate us and give very little of the money to the people it was intended to help?
                     
                     It will never be just and fair as long as their are governments involved.

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                        John Holdenposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                        The billions (not trillions) of foreign aid are largely designed to benefit companies in the donor country.

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                           Old Poolmanposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                           John, I think your hatred of big business is showing.  It may be that that is what ends up happening to the foreign aid money but that was not the intent.  Much of it is put in the pockets of government officials before any is distributed to the people it was inteded to help.
                           
                           By the way, this is way off topic and we should get back onto the subject of illegal immigration if we wish to continue a discussion here.

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                              John Holdenposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                              OK

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   WillStarrposted 10 years ago

   It all boils down to the simple question of whether the US has the right to control our borders like any other nation?
   
   We, the People, are fed up with politicians of both parties because neither will control our borders. There is a growing sentiment in America for the people to go to the borders ourselves, and stop the invasion of our country.

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      Old Poolmanposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      WillStarr - If things keep going the way they are now we just may have to go protect our own borders.  Either that or we could volunteer to change diapers so the Border Patrol can go back to doing their job.

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   Sychophantasticposted 10 years ago

   Let's not be mean. I'm just agreeing that we want a smart and educated population. There's pretty simple testing for that and it can be unbiased. The 100 IQ line seems like a reasonable request. And what would be some good questions? Who was the first president of the United States? Does the sun revolve around the earth or does the earth revolve around the sun? Just ask those two questions to start and anyone who gets one wrong is deported.

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