If Black Lives Really Matter !
- ahorsebackposted 8 years ago
0Do what my parents did when poverty and hunger affects the dinner table ; Move ! Grab a car , a train , a subway , leaving the slum may be the way out . How many times I remember my parents driving us away from a lost job , a dying industry , a poor mans demise . I remember eight kids in a station wagon leaving it all behind - try it , it works .
This is where someone tells me why that isn't possible !
Oh , and don't forget to tell us why we are racists for suggesting a path to success .I hear you, horse.
Reminds me of the "Grapes of Wrath" it is not easy to go bouncing around with no money, no gas and kids to feed. The human interest stories are far and few inbetween.
Racists are not defined by helpful comments, but comments of bigotry and disdain.Your parents sound like they were great role models with knowledge to know when something isn't working and the wisdom and faith to be pro-active.
A perfect illustration of one the greatest weaknesses of capitalism. Communities are routinely created and destroyed, families are separated, friends are lost, affiliations sundered and people start living atomized lives without meaning, locked into tiny worlds.
At which point they join a forum, lol.The problem isn't race so much as it is socioeconomics. Many of those in the lower income sections are rioting because of the poverty & lack of socioeconomic opportunities which they perceive is racial. Poor youth, Black, Caucasian, Latino, or whatever are expressing their angst in many ways. Poor Black youth are rioting, blaming their dire circumstances more on racism than on poverty. Poor Caucasian youth are becoming right-wing, neo-nationalistic, & voting for the Donald, & Latino youth are aligning themselves w/more extreme Latino organizations & groups.
The crux of the problem among the disenchanted poor Black youth is POVERTY, not racism. Many of them are blaming the establishment for their poverty. Instead it is their parents who unthinkingly had them while the former were clearly unprepared emotionally, financially, & psychologically. Intelligent, educated parents have children when they are established educationally & career-wise. Many poor Blacks & non-Blacks for this matter are woefully unprepared when they have children. Parenthood shouldn't be a right but a privilege. Poor people also have more children than they can afford as opposed to middle & upper class parents who have small families. If more people thought & planned carefully before they acted, there would be less poverty in America.
To add, the reason why people are poor in America is because of negative, even stupid choices. If one chooses unwisely & negatively, the outcomes will not be conducive but detrimental. Poor people have to adopt more positive mindsets & mentalities. They must learn to value education & achievement. They must adopt a more positive work ethic. They must cease having a consciousness of poverty & lack. They must realize that no one owes them support, except for themselves. They must practice self-control & responsibility regarding sexual matters. They also must acquaint themselves w/contraception & the importance of family planning, realizing that small families means more socioeconomic affluence, a better future, & more educational & socioeconomic opportunities for their children. Most poor people in America, Black, Caucasian, Latino, or whatever, have a passive, come what may mentality which is detrimental.
As a middle class Black, my analysis is that from the late 1960s on, the MAIN problem regarding Black angst was & is mostly socioeconomics & seldom race. Based upon my observations from childhood on, many poor Blacks are quite loathe to better themselves. They would rather blame outside forces than access their negative situations. They refuse to accept responsibility or be accountable for the bleakly dire, even hellish situations in their lives. They seem to be quite happy, struggling & doing without. They want that immediate gratification w/o very little concern of the future. To be truthful, they rejoice in being poor for if they weren't happy being poor, they would do something to better themselves educationally & socioeconomically. Many poor Blacks DON'T &/or WON'T do. They purportedly complain about being poor but subconsciously rejoice in their poverty, living second best, & denigrating those who better themselves educationally & socioeconomically. Also they want the more affluent middle & upper classes to give, even lift them up.
The Black poor are in a dismal situation. They really can't be saved as they refuse to help themselves. The Black middle, upper middle, & upper classes see the pathology of the Black poor. To the former, the Black poor are damned. The Black poor will be a permanent underclass because of their negative dysfunction, even pathology. The Black poor expect to be saved; however, society is becoming sick of the Black poor. They are viewed as a cancer by the middle & upper classes of America. They are going to be done with in one way or another.....In the future, there will be only room for the affluent & educated.......Wow! Is there any chance of them being "born again, I wonder?.......
Surely there are some stalwart christian capitalists around to give them a lift up out of poverty, straight into god's arms.
(Posted as usual by the lately cynic.)What's wrong with a stalwart atheist giving them a hand? Or are Christians somehow responsible for everything?
You forget that it is a different scenario if you have a black face staring at you in the mirror. I have witnessed several occasions where a black man applying for a job has his application thrown in the trash can upon his exit. In a different job I was shot down on a few occasions when recommending a black applicant. These were not situations in the ghetto and moving to a new place is a different story when you can't rent an apartment which as a apartment manager I was forced to not allow black applications rent. Or get a job based on your prejudiced color.
The reality is not that the problem does not exist if you try. In many cases it is about the color of your face. Moving out of the ghetto and upward takes extraordinary effort and talent. Are you saying that anyone has those qualities?RH, you are proof positive that you don't have to be Black to 'get it'.
Your comment is quite accurate and refreshingly candid.
Well said, thanks...Hogwash , That is when you go self employed ! I was in my fifties , laid off twice . I saw no chance of being hired at my age so I went SELF employed in the construction trades and succeeded ! When no one hires you --------you put your boots on and hire YOURSELF , you are excusing the unemployable situation to race issues ------THAT is a non- issue !
The color of ones skin has little or nothing to do with ambition , drive and impending hunger !
One does what one HAS to do!I don't think its "Hogwash", its a perspective that's different. I was reminded of when Bill Clinton ended Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC). Making the poor, poorer, and homeless.
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aid_to_Fa … t_Children
"Peter Edelman, an assistant secretary in the Department of Health and Human Services, resigned from the Clinton administration in protest of Clinton signing the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act, which he called, "The worst thing Bill Clinton has done."
Now, we have TANF and less jobs, and greater poverty.
ADDED: However, I understand your point about picking yourself up by your boot straps, I relate. "Where there is a will, there is a way." .. some people have never heard that before and don't know they have a will.It's one thing to hold people accountable but it is another to ignore clear obstacles some encounter.
In all of history , It is a natural occurrence for man to live within his socio- economic limitations , but for you or another social reformer to blame and make others responsible , more than is already built into our system , for the self imposition of poverty of many, many of those in poverty , is wrong . When we see people existing idly on street corners and their kids march in the streets with scarves over their faces , rioting , stealing , pilfering , burning and then asking for society to justify it ? And just what "Clear Obstacles" are there that justify this mayhem ? Other than the divisive agenda of social reformist Pres. Obama and his willful war against all other Americans , that he forces an welfare entitlement drive reform down our throats? You lose conscientious justification by all others when these forms of Sal Alinsky style revolution are indoctrinated into one race of people - Against All the Others . The inciting of mass riots is not only dangerous - but very intentional !
I'm not suggesting that there are clear obstacles which would justify the type of behavior you are ranting against here. Those types of people would take advantage and abuse a system no matter how many times they were given opportunity. But, those people are not all black people. They are a small microcosm of our society and they are not representative of the majority of black people in our country. Most are just like you and I. Attempting to make a living and get ahead in the world. But, these people do infrequently encounter obstacles. Although the obstacles are clearing, slowly, I can imagine the level of frustration someone may feel when they are denied a job and they know it is because of their race. I'm sure we both agree that no obstacle is insurmountable since there are an infinite number of ways to find a way to make a living; but there are obstacles and it is only fair to acknowledge their existence.
We can acknowledge inequities in our world without feeling that we are personally accountable for them. We can stand together and demand fairness without feeling that we are somehow being blamed for the problem, simply because we aren't the same skin tone. Being realistic isn't giving in or selling out. It is simply looking at the world with eyes wide open and hoping that we can all work together to forge a better society where no one can fairly lay claim to having encountered prejudice.For some it is a stumbling block, others an excuse but to many it is a reality of the times. As good paying jobs disappear forever and inflation eats up every dollar you can earn the "opportunities" also go away. Get ready for more of this to rear its' ugly head as a whole demographic has been erased from the opportunity of upward mobility that was a mainstay for the movement from the lower to middle class we were able to earn in a more affluent time. The country has moved into a direction of greed and conquest from its' political and capitalistic perspectives and disdain for those less fortunate left in its wake. By demonizing these people it is far easier to discount their plight and elevate our own opinions. Shame on us.
I did the same thing only I was thirty and have been self employed ever since (I am now 61). But I had one important asset, I have a white face. I was told by an old black man when we we were discussing race relations that there is a huge chasm between the attitudes of race relations in the US. One side sees nothing as racial in it's perspective while the other sees everything as a racial perspective. It is hard to pinpoint when that took place or when it began but it sums things up pretty accurately. Does BLM really have a good point as to how the police treat black people? Some indicators can be pointed that way but by enlarge out of 300 million people in the US it is a small one. But then if you look at the statistics it favors a targeted group when compared to the people arrested. Is it because of the neighborhoods this happens most? Or due to the black majority in those neighborhoods. To say that any of this is an all or nothing situation is ridiculous and should be thrown out as one perspective. If you wish to call it hogwash then you are not in the conversation and will remain on the fringes of it.
We live in a society where everyone wants to be a victim. If someone actually did something to better their own condition, or took personal responsibility who could they lay the blame on?
+1,000,000,000,000,000,000!!!! Many poor people of all races love the woe is me mentality. They simply refuse to take responsibility for their negative lives. It is far easier to blame society than it is to blame themselves. I have seen this many times, especially in my maternal extended family in South Carolina. They are an exercise in laziness, expecting others to owe them the good life not making an effort on their part to improve themselves. My late father called them lazy parasites.
- ahorsebackposted 8 years ago0
It's incredibly twisted , what's happening in our inner cities , democrats and their decades of inner city leadership have destroyed the personal accountability of lower economic classes.. And fed only the organized labor of school systems , city halls , Milwaukee is burning , Ferguson Mo. , Detroit , Baltimore , on and on .
BLM is screaming "Kill the whites ", "Kill the cops " , I believe when a people begin to self destruct in these inner cities , then let them , mob mentality almost always rules when the political system breaks down !
BLM , Where do go when you burn it down , where ?"I believe when a people begin to self destruct in these inner cities , then let them"
And yet...even when a riot of 1000 people happens it is still a minority of the people that live there. They deserve, and should get, the same protection the rest of us get.Even if I involves the national guard and tear gas !
And the police shouldn't have there hands tied by a liberal media screaming " police brutality " , A federal government administration promoting black violence , anti -cop mentality and sticking its collective nose into local problems . Let the liberal city leaders in Chicago , Detroit , Ferguson , Cincinnati , Baltimore, Atlanta be held responsible for their own acts !
Why is it that we can't let the police take legal action but yet call in the "guards " when things get hot ?
I have no qualms with letting the inner city jungles burn themselves out , they most often create their own jungle like violence and then feed their own cultures and children into the flames .March on Credence , ................. anything for the cause after all right ?
Isn't he fun?
Milwaukee County Sheriff Clark has authorized non lethal force if things get out of hand again. I suppose that's bean bags or rubber bullets, or something like that. Of course he gets his authority and permissions from the government.The basic principle behind the cause will not be ignored by rightwingers that just as soon see that abuses go unaddressed, period. So, the movement WILL continue until corrections are made. That will be whether the Right likes itor not. Better get to the battle lines to shore up your man Trump, he will need it.
Democrats have been running the very cities that inner city BLM people are currently drowning in ! All of the entitlement driven cause and effect by democrats saying " you cannot survive without Uncle Sam's monetary controls , social reforming and welfare programs "
But the leftist administration and media has you hoodwinked into believing that the GOP is the bad guy ? Wow , you are way ,way ahead of the enlightenment curve aren't you ? ............Not !
The political system is broken, we need a leader who believes in law and order, we don't have one.
Another shooting, this time of a man helping pull a car out of a ditch.
http://ktla.com/2016/08/16/good-samarit … -of-ditch/
http://www.live5news.com/story/32768632 … 33538356=1
After helping 2 teens get their (stolen) car out of the ditch, they shot and killed him. So where are the BLM folks, with their race-specific laws? Where are the cries of hatred over shooting a black man? Where are the riots over shooting a black man? This black man doesn't matter because he isn't a thug with a record as long as your arm and a gun in his pocket?17 and 19 year old. The shooter should be tried as an adult and put in prison with some men who don't go for killing Good Samaritans.
BLM is dealing with unauthorized shootings from those designated to serve and protect, it has nothing to do with thugs and the crimes that they commit. Just because we got felonious thugs does not ameliorate the problem of unjustified shootings of unarmed citizens by the police. That is my focus and should be that of BLM as well. Conservatives like to bait and switch , pointing to crimes in the inner city as a way of ignoring the BLM issue and concern.
But...
I don't think this shooting was authorized.
So far every time BLM opens it's mouth, it's about shooting thugs.
Hard to understand how a dead man would care about who shot him, police or someone else.
Don't think this was in the inner city - there aren't too many ditches there.
I have yet to see anything from BLM about cops doing unjustified shootings. Just shooting anyone black, and so far every one justified. (That I've seen them complain about - there are possibly a tiny handful of unjustified ones, dwarfed by the number of justified shootings they complain and riot about.)So, about shooting people that in your opinion are thugs, but who are in fact to the more enlightened, people who were shot without provocation. All black guys are thugs, HUH? Not entitled to equal treatment before the law just because you say so? This has nothing to do with BLM, but with a criminal element not deserving sympathy from anyone. What planet are you on? What do mean ' so far every one justified' ?
The prime focus of BLM is unjustified police shootings, regardless of how insignificant they are for a man from Idaho. A tiny handful is too many if there is no active mechanism in place to see that they do not happen and those that are cavalier in the use of their weapons are not appropriately
disciplined as part of a deliberate process. We will keep the political heat in focus on this issue, while I opposed rioting and violence.You're the one claiming all black men are thugs: what I said is that so far I've only seen the BLM complain about police shooting black thugs. Any one of a different color is fine, and they have yet to complain about a cop shooting a law abiding black person simply leading their life (didn't hear any complaint about the accidental shooting of the psych guy, that would be an exception if they DID complain about it).
Justified because our legal system says it was in spite of family, friends, acquaintances, witnesses and people that have no idea who the victim was of what happened say otherwise. Funny how that works - the eyewitness and family always see something different than a camera does - but I'll take the judge over biased friends every time.
Hell on the Idaho thing, aren't you? Not that it means anything, but apparently it's a great talking point.
No, Credence, a tiny handful isn't too many. Neither our society, our culture, our cops or our citizens are perfect. There WILL be some no matter how hard we try. And personally I don't find that a figure of something like 0.001% of police killings are unjustified is unreasonable. In a population of 350 million, billions of police interactions each year, but only a few hundred police killings per year, that one out of a thousand is not unreasonable.
But of course the BLM will say that ANY police killing (of a black person) is unjustified. I just don't agree, that's all.oK, you only hear about BLM complaning about the shooting of black thugs.
Are they all just thugs, Wilderness? The BLM is not saying that ANY police shooting of a black is unjustied. That Is a fabrication from the Right and its propaganda machine. Conservatives would just as soon see inequities of this sort kept out of consideration and discussion in public forums, and I would not want to guess why. Perhaps, I already know.
I agree that a court and jury must make the decision as to whether a shooting is unjustified or not. But, I distrust the system implicitely without the application of any number of safeguards. It is easy for the 'law and order' Right to desire to not pursue the remedies to make it possible to identify and prosecute rogue officers when circumstances merit.
And you are wrong, this is not about police killings that are otherwise justified. These shooting tend to happen in black communities, and those residents are not privy to such things where anglos live. Who knows, maybe this is some phenomenon that is alien to anglos? If these things do occur with whites, perhaps they should bring attention to it as well, nobody is stopping them.
We may have to agree to disagree on this, as itis not possible for you to see what I see. I have to learn to resign myself to that reality many times."The BLM is not saying that ANY police shooting of a black is unjustied."
Which shooting have they held up as an example of what is right?
"But, I distrust the system implicitely without the application of any number of safeguards."
So do it. It is a broken system that works, at best, only poorly. But it is still far, far superior to the hanging mobs generated by the BLM.
"These shooting tend to happen in black communities, and those residents are not privy to such things where anglos live."
Your point? That because so many blacks live in poverty they are not bound to the same rules as the rest of us?
- ahorsebackposted 8 years ago0
One cannot dismiss the entire inner city melt down to socio-economics alone , Poverty is everywhere , IN SPITE of the rosy picture presented by this administration ! Poverty or any levels of lower incomes are not a reason for poor human behavior patterns present in these cities . There are plenty of "poor " who raise there kids to still respect the law .
We have to call this what it is , Milwaukee is in free fall because of a culture of entitlement driven fad in thug mentality .if a kid who runs around the city in four hundred dollar sneakers , tattoos that cost a thousand bucks and has a fascination being a clothes hound , THAT tells me "poverty" is an excuse , If seventy percent of these homes have an absent father , a drug addled mother and a free range child rearing mentality , then where are the morals , where is the self discipline , where is the compassion for fellow human beings .
This is a social mentality of sex , drugs and jungle behavior first , if THAT is the child rearing home life ,then THAT is the criminal defined sociology for all . Not poverty ! I can show you poor people every day who obey the social , legal and moral construct of their one living environment ! Democratic local leadership with O accountability of this welfare state for decades voted in by the same people who riot is what doesn't make sense . Poverty alone doesn't excuse poor social familial and personal behavior and accountability !
Maybe , "Tough Love " anybody remember that ? That is what an entire two or more generations of entitlement driven inner city thugs need . Jail, tear gas , stun guns , and riot gear . Fire hoses and national guards sometimes are the only answer .
"Burn Down Bad Behavior !"
Milwaukee---- Raise your kids right and stop blaming the rich , they didn't do this to you , blame your absent fathers !There is truth here, on some level. We give government assistance to watch the neighborhoods which garner the most devolve into gang infested, drug inundated, crime ridden rat nests. Welfare doesn't work on many levels. Not certain how to revamp the system to alleviate these problems. But our tax dollars are not helping to alleviate poverty or improve standards of living. They aren't educating to break the poverty cycle. We are simply paying people a subsistence stipend and forgetting about them, until they riot.
- ahorsebackposted 8 years ago0
I wonder why the" offensive" flag isn't thrown out when Obama is playing golf and not word one does he speak about a black cop shooting a black man in Milwaukee , while the BLM goes on another rampage , murdering , burning destroying the property of their neighbors ?
......crickets .......
Such leftist hypocrisy!He is having melt downs, not the same as Hillary's, but he is.
"Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves." - Abraham Lincoln
This article by Ken Blackwell is an excellent read. He exposes the HYPOCRISY OF BLACK LIVES MATTER AND THE SOUTHERN POVERTY LAW CENTER.
He explains how the Black Lives Matter movement is supported by the SPLC while they are simultaneously TRAINING law enforcement. That's what it says!
The Southern Poverty Law Center trains law enforcement on how to identify "hate groups". How can the so-called "hate-watchdogs" of the SPLC support BLM, a group who calls for violence against police and law-enforcement and claims that Israel has committed genocide and apartheid?
BLM's anti-Semitism is showing!
* http://dailycaller.com/2016/08/22/the-h … aw-center/
Lieutenant General William "Jerry" Boykin posted this on his Facebook wall.- ahorsebackposted 8 years ago0
I believe that but for the present hypocrisy of the political climate , there should be an investigation ,arrests and prosecution of treasonous and violent organizations , The advancement of violence , hatred and bigotry is prevalent in many such organizations , especially when the abuses of free speech incite rioting , violence and further the course of hate groups !
BLM or KKK what's the difference . As long as there is always someone (many someones) willing to help others help themselves.
"The great equalizer is hard work." whomever said this, I don't know.But many poor in the USA refuse to believe in strategizing & smart work. They would rather depend upon others to give them a middle class lifestyle but NEVER on their dime but on OTHERS' dime. If they don't depend upon the government, they want more affluent family members to PAY their way. Anyone who has a large extended family has SUCH HUMAN FREELOADERS......who won't ever make a socioeconomic improvement effort....they would rather depend upon FAMILY MEMBERS TO FOOT THEIR BILL.........
I can understand this point of view but there are other aspects to consider.
Think of those people in Sudan, being hearded together like cattle, by others commanded by war lords. Starvation, thirst, hopelessness. You deprive a person of food and water and ultimately it's not just the physical body that suffers: the brain and nervous system also loses much of its function through lack of nourishment.
That person is very much less able to lift him/her self out of the "gutter." It takes a healthy, adequately-fed brain to even devise ways out of the depression. It also requires just a little support and encouragement from those who are better off. When others are deliberately, or unwittingly, causing the starvation, it is totally false to blame the victim.
Likewise in the case of a big fat industrial country like The United States, if there is a class of greedy, uncaring people who deprive another class of people from the essentials of life, then where do you point the finger?I think a part of the reason for the extended adolescence is the fact that people are happy and love their servitude. That they've lacked character building experiences, they've lacked the right of passage that people have had traditionally to give people responsibility and an adult insight in life.
In the absence of that there's physical and mental issues with how we feel bodily and how we feel mentally about ideas we encounter in the world.
What fills the void when you remove logic and reason from education?
If you can't think your way out of a paper bag, then the world is going to look hostile. You are not going to be able to understand what's going on. Just like if we couldn't read, for example, and everywhere we go there's that nasty thing called written information.
Teach a person who can't read how to read, use logic and reasoning, give them responsibilities and they can work out many of their own problems incrementally. Its self-liberating.
Dr. Ben Carson liberated himself through reading, his Mom made sure he had a library card. He and his wife established libraries in several poor black communities. The education system is a disaster, but from what I hear, those who have the drive and are self-taught, get it! That feels good, or it should, if it doesn't then a person has other issues to work on.
- ahorsebackposted 8 years ago0
I believe this is an old Chinese proverb ;
If you are depressed - you are living in the past
If you are anxious - you are living in the future
If all is just right - you are living in today
I believe that this saying is extremely relevant today in ANY culture , and the BLM and the culture and minority that they "represent " , could use a lesson in "moving on" , It is time for an apparently very troubled , anxious , depressed , collective group of people to progress into the present World and as the same goes with the Native Americans , it is just plain time .
Will you as a people symbolically " sit in your own stink" ? And for how long , for what positive reasoning and purpose ? How long will it take for the changes , that by the way , can only happen from within,-- possibly take ?
The" blame game" has been in the front sector of our news media off and on for decades , I was around in the sixties , a time that was truly troubled but since then the American culture collectively advanced in race relations to a point where it had all but disappeared completely , minus of course the usual Jesse Jackson theatrics . That is until the arrival of Barack Obama on the scene , he arrived with a social agenda directed towards mainstream America , divide and conquer , to divide whoever for whatever purpose . You see, a socialist's agenda is to divide first and foremost .
If blacks truly want to advance into the melting pot of the American success story today , they will have to fully and positively engage . That means taking the vehicle of progress out of neutral , move the agenda forwards and not into reverse , you advance nothing in any society by in effect , burning it down ! The wonderful Pastor Mark Burns addresses the inner city, BLM problem.
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEPkapG … e=youtu.be
We need President Trump, who will create good jobs for everyone!
That will help solve a lot of the problems.
ALL Lives Matter!Hollywood politics go hand-in-hand with Hollywood religion.
Don't you Americans just luv Hollywood? The glamour, the showmanship, the crowd-winner? People of the 3rd Reich were also mesmerised by the oratory of Adolph - and they were sucked in, swallowed, hook-line-and-sinker, because they were being taught how to pass the blame en mass; and how the world suffered! Literally millions of people were murdered, because people thus believed "they" were the cause of all the problems.
Take a long, hard, honest look at your selves! Be careful what you wish for. If you want to unite, stop the process of division. Every person is of equal value - darker, pinker, lighter-skin colour; male, female; older, younger; top executive, road sweeper; unemployed, uneducated, unclothed, unclean. If you want to cease behaving like reactive animals, start using your human brains to work out solutions from reality, not from the loud rhetoric of Holywood.+1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000...........
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