The War on Women in the UK

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RJ Schwartzposted 7 years ago
Yesterday a terrorist committed an unspeakable act of terror against women and young girls by detonating himself via suicide vest at a Manchester concert. The wounded figures are still climbing as is the death toll, but it's over 100 in total. Yet no women's organization has said a word. This is the real war on women if one actually exists and the world is silent. I'm perplexed.
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  ahorsebackposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  One cannot stand for woman's rights AND be politically correct too RJ, one cannot stand for woman's rights or eight year old little girls rights , for that matter and still wish for secure borders , You will notice however that the left will not even bring up the topic of terror and Islam in the same forum thread , Why , because the left is all about the normalizing of an acceptable number of eight year old girl deaths in order to support their open borders policy .
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  promisemposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  This is one of the most offensive and inflammatory comments I have ever seen on these forums. To accuse the "left" of supporting the mass murder of 8-year-old girls for their political gains is beyond belief.
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  HollieTposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Quite.
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  ahorsebackposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  And yet , the left is all for the continued open door policy of refugee immigration from the middle east all across the western world including here , fought all along the Trump 7 nation ban from immigration into the US., fights against Trumps building of the Mexican border "Wall " and ending unfettered illegal immigration ?
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  promisemposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Exactly who is "the left"?
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  Marisa Wrightposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Just like Americans normalise the killing of children in school shootings so they can hold on to their handguns.
  
  This atrocity in Manchester has hit Britain hard, not just because it's a terrorist attack, but because the British people are so unaccustomed to children being killed. The last time children were killed in a mass attack in Britain was over 20 years ago, in 1996. Thousands of children have died in massacres in America since then.
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  ahorsebackposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  "Just like Americans ........so they can hold their handguns " .........Keep up with that thought and wonder why terrorism is on the rise everywhere , especially in your homeland ., You might look to why this family of Islam was being scrutinized by the legal authorities , you might look at why this guy WAS radicalized with the help of his family , in his own neighborhood , and then spending his last three weeks in the middle east being brain-washed ?
  
  Guns ?, Why don't we do this , tomorrow morning I will go round up all the guns and you go round up all the Islamic Radicals , we'll meet here at noon and see who ends true evil in man[woman ] kind ? I think the greater weapon for increased terrorism may be the popular campaign of P.C. denial of reality no matter who the chosen , intended victims are .
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  Marisa Wrightposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Ahorseback, just sit down for half an hour or so, and add up how many children have been massacred by so-called Christians in your country, compared to Islamists in mine, over the last 20 years. Then ask yourself who has caused the most harm.
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  ahorsebackposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  You know , the overall tone of the liberal's defense of islamic terror every time it raises it's ugly head is dumbfounding , like your own defending attitude , It's like you do all that you can to defend against it's eventual demise , nothing seems important , not woman's rights , nor children's rights , not the fact that Christian genocide is happening , not traditional immigrant and cultural assimilation or the impossible vetting situation involving Islamic countries and their "refugees''.........
  
  The ideology of the left is in fact , part of the reason that Islamic extremism continues unabated , the obstructionist attitude and denial of reality like the Angela Merkels , the Barack Obama's , the only reason Obama increased incredibly NSA espionage on his own people was to assist the left's politicization of government intelligence agencies and to assist Hilary's failed campaign , The left is the party of obstructionism , and yes , even against radical Islam .
  
  I guess the ideology of the right will simply never understand or except the blame for all that terrorism as liberals would have us believe . Hey , I know , lets blame Trump for Radical Islam, "that fit's the bill "
  , doesn't it ? .
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  Aime Fposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Except no one is defending Islamic terrorists, she was simply pointing out that conservatives are guilty of doing exactly what you're saying liberals are doing - "accepting" a certain amount of deaths in order to promote or keep a certain policy. Do you feel that your hesitance to implement more restrictions on guns means that you're okay with all of the kids at Sandy Hook being dead? If the answer is no, I wonder why you're so comfortable accusing liberals of the same thing.
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  wildernessposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  The answer is "No", but then all evidence points to proliferation of guns in a society does not cause more deaths, whether kids at Sandy Hook or anyone or anywhere else. On the other hand, inviting Muslims in unlimited, unvetted numbers into a country most definitely does raise the level of violence.
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  Marisa Wrightposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  "all evidence points to proliferation of guns in a society does not cause more deaths".
  
  That statement is not true. There is HUGE debate. At the very least, the evidence is contradictory, so you can't say "all evidence" points to anything!
  
  A few years ago, the American gun lobby made a huge deal out of an email about Australian gun control, which said homicides had gone up since our gun control took effect. It was proved to be a made-up story by one person, but it was so widely reported, it has stuck in everyone's minds.
  
  Of course, the main reason for our gun control laws was in response to a massacre which included children. The main goal of the law was to ensure we never exposed children to such a slaughter of innocents again. In that sense, the laws have been a resounding success, both in Australia and in the United Kingdom.
  
  Frankly I don't really care if homicides have gone up or down. I am glad that we have reduced the opportunity for crazy people to go on shooting sprees. That's good enough for me.
  
  The graphs are interesting in this article:
  
  http://www.abc.net.au/news/factcheck/20 … ur/7254880
  
  More interesting articles:
  
  http://www.factcheck.org/2009/05/gun-co … australia/
  
  http://www.medpagetoday.com/publichealt … licy/58703
  https://www.vox.com/2016/2/29/11120184/ … l-evidence
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  ahorsebackposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  One thing that I DO know is that people outside of the US. had better focus on their own social constructs , they know little about those in the US , it completely reflects itself in the comparisons of an ineffective act of law ,[ such as gun free area's ] and the effectual change ,such as when gun crimes then get worse .
  
  ".....frankly I don't care if homicides go up or down ......" ?
  
  That makes no sense ,you obviously don't know what you're talking about .
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  Marisa Wrightposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Don't play with words. I am trying to be fair in discussing the statistics - I am saying that it's open to debate whether homicides have gone up or down due to the gun bans in Australia and the UK - but my point is, that's not the issue here.
  
  What is unquestionably true is that the gun bans in Britain and Australia drastically reduced the opportunity for crazy people to go on shooting sprees, especially those targetting children.
  
  Just compare the number of gun massacres in Britain, Australia and the US over the last 20 years - there can be absolutely NO argument that the gun bans achieved their goal, which was to prevent such events. For me, that is a good enough result to justify the bans. That's what I meant, and you know it.
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  ahorsebackposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Take your last paragraph , look at Chicago , Baltimore , Detroit , NYC , and tell me guns and their crimes have disappeared there . "Gun Free Zones " are an open invitation to criminals and they are taking that oportunity to perpetrate more violence ..
  
  i opened my gun safe the other day , I stared at my gun for two entire days in the gun safe ,aND here's the crazy part , it never even moved ? I just can't figure it out .
  
  Anti gun chatter is a simple liberal diversion from policies that don't work ..Fact !
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  Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I love these arguments which make no sense, whatsoever, yet appear to make the foreigners feel they have made a point. Pay no attention to the prescription drugs behind the curtain. Just call these people crazy and ban the guns so the drug companies can continue to make money, the criminals will have more latitude to commit crimes and the general population can lose one more freedom.
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  ahorsebackposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  But don't you understand liberal thought ? " If only we just believe - It will all then be true "
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  Marisa Wrightposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Exactly.
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  Marisa Wrightposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Ahorseback, do you notice that when you have no answer to a question I ask, you resort to an incoherent rant? Has it occurred to you that just makes me smile, because it proves you have NO answer to my question?
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  wildernessposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I really don't radical Islamic terrorists (if that's what you're talking about) care what sex or age their victim is.
  
  The woman that doesn't wear a Hijab. The girl that attends school. The boy that questions the Imam, the man that turns from Islam. All are targets; all those that do not bow before their particular version of Islam.
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  Aime Fposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Yup. ISIS' war is not on women in the U.K., it's actually primarily been on people in the Middle East and I'm guessing there's a pretty even mix of men and women (and boys and girls).
  
  Women's groups tend to focus on issues that affect only or at the very least primarily women... y'know, as the moniker would suggest.
  
  (I'd also like to add that a man telling women what they should and shouldn't be mad about is inducing some pretty severe eye-rolling from behind my screen.)
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  Misfit Chickposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I was utterly horrified by your remarkably distorted fake news until I saw that I'm not the only one who can see whats so wrong with this. What the hell were you trying to prove by saying these things - that YOU are an ADVOCATE for women & girls; and REAL women & girls are NOT?!! That's a righteous crock of BULL coming from a Trump supporter!! This crap has absolutely NOTHING to do with you trying to bring awareness to a 'forgotten group of females' - it has to do with you being a typical BRAINWASHED Trump minion.
  
  Terrorists choose targets by 1) ease of capability to acheive success in the environment; and 2) who/what will hurt our enemies the most. The world trade towers were a US target for that reason. Kicking the UK & the world where our little girls were going to be concentrated for one night is not lost on the rest of us who can SEE that JUST because little girls were targeted - doesn't mean it was ALL about them. They were just the victims that would cause the greatest emotional response.
  
  Shame on you for being so dimwitted & insensitive to the obvious; and for being really GREAT at playing into the hands of terrorists. Guess I shouldn't be so surprised. Who you follow says boatloads about you.
  
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HollieTposted 7 years ago
What complete and utter nonsense. It's not a 'war on women' it was a terrorist attack against civilians, and yes, children (including boys and some men) If you bother to read the reports, you'll notice that the city of Manchester is condemning comments and commentary like this. You'll also read that Muslims in Manchester were offering their homes to victims who were stranded, giving free taxi rides, donating food to hospitals for the staff etc.

I'm pretty sure the victim's families would really appreciate it if you'd condemn your own intel services for leaking sensitive information about the tragedy to the press, when the investigation is ongoing and they'd specifically been asked not to. That would be very helpful, Thanks.
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ahorsebackposted 7 years ago
And like it or not , in the world of Islam , the promotion of women's rights as known to modern western cultures and religions isn't very high on their list of priorities ! Take a look for yourself at some of the" Women's Rights " that exist [not ! ]in the islamic world . I find it rather ironic in fact that women's rights advocates in America so easily align themselves with the modern liberal ideology today .

If such a thing as Sharia law and it's effects on women is okay next door to where you live , then fine ! But we in the real world all need to take a look at the implications of reversing the trends of progressing and advancing women's rights , and simultaneously admitting into our culture the almost pre-historic treatment of the weaker gender by an eleventh century religion and culture .

I think THAT is the main subject meaning of the OP's "war on women " question- statement .

Actually , a comment about the reason for THIS target in Manchester England , more than likely The Islamic extremist's opinion of western decadence ?
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Live to Learnposted 7 years ago
Since this thread appears to be all about inflammatory statements, here's one.

We need to understand what lures our young adults to radicalization. The young man was born in the UK. Raised there,.as I understand. Until we stop and work together to understand how we are failing segments of our population we will live in fear of this happening again and again.
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  ahorsebackposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  "Born there raised there " , but by immigrants from Libya and thus returning to Libya for radicalization , OR worse radicalization right there in Manchester U.K. , according to media , a "Hotbed" of such Islamic radicals .
  
  Concerned for safety , europe may be lost to that ,question is , is the U.S. next ?
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  Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Is the U.S. next? I've thought on that a lot. I will say that from what I've read some of the violence in Europe is attributed to animosity from their policies during the colonial days. So, I think we will see violence at some point, caused by animosity created during our meddling in the Middle East. We are decades behind Europe in the meddling so it hasn't had time to fester and bite us in the butt on that one; but violence begets violence and we can assume we will get our share of it.
  
  We are lucky though. Our influx from the south is different from theirs. Our neighbors are similar to us. Common history, common goals, common values. They don't want to blow us up, they simply want to get ahead in life through hard work. Europe's southern neighbors are quite different .
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  HollieTposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  some of the violence in Europe is attributed to animosity from their policies during the colonial days.
  Make no mistake, I'm no apologist for the U.Ks shameful colonial days, but I believe that the terror we're witnessing in Europe is a direct consequence of our meddling in the Middle East.
  
  Is the U.S. next?
  
  9/11. You suffered the same.
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  HollieTposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  See, there you go again. Spouting your ignorance. The comment made about Manchester being a hotbed of radicals actually came from another ignoramus- who declared that the person who committed the London terrorist attack was from Manchester, when he was actually from Kent. He also went to call for the death penalty for suicide bombers- think about that for a minute. I was born and bred in Manchester. And the majority of Muslims, Christians, Sikhs, Jews etc. live side by side and in peace.
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  ahorsebackposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  My ignorance tells me several things apparently above your understanding , Islamic extremists generally don't live side by side with or within other cultures , They are not assimilating as other nationalities have . Question for your apparent naivety , how many terror attacks will it take for you to stop turning the other cheek in UK., but hey its your country , do you live in the desert now , then you are allowed to keep burying your head in the sand . America , doesn't have to suffer as the U.K. has as yet . We will not either , if all goes --as Trump leads .
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  HollieTposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, extremists do live side by side and within other cultures but not in peace. The man responsible for the terror attacks in Manchester lived on a housing estate, side by side and within another culture. You have completely missed the point of my post; which is that you cannot condemn all Muslims for the acts of a few and stupid comments about not assimilating are exactly that, stupid.
  
  When are you going to stop burying your head in the sand and face the fact that your govt. and mine have signed arms and trade deals with Saudi who are supplying ISIL with weapons which they then use against us. They are also murdering Yemeni civilians, including children. There are bound to be consequences when we meddle and invade other countries. And why are you suggesting that it hasn't happened in the U.S. What was 9/11?
  
  I notice you haven't retracted your comments about Manchester being a hotbed of extremism?
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  Credence2posted 7 years agoin reply to this
  "I notice you haven't retracted your comments about Manchester being a hotbed of extremism?"
  
  Trust me, he will never admit to it.
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  ahorsebackposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Well people ! Take a look at the increasing amount of I.S.I.S., I.S.I.L. Islamic extremist credited terrorist acts in the UK, seems to me those denying reality have more to retract than a realist does , And liberals still wonder why a majority of UK er's voted for Brexit ? Prove something to me - I 'll retract . Besides , if the media can create alternative fact as free speech , so can I .
  Aren't there immigration quota's involved with the EU?
  
  Don't like or agree with my opinions ? . Pretty simple , get over it .
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  HollieTposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  No-one is denying that there are I.S.I.L/I.S.IS attacks in the UK and beyond (this is in your imagination) The points referred to are:
  a) The Manchester attack was not aimed at women- it was aimed at civilians in general and the venue chosen was because it's one of the largest in Europe. Therefore, the maximum carnage would be caused.
  b) Manchester is not a hotbed of terrorism
  c) Just because others are of a different political persuasion and therefore have an alternative worldview does not mean that they condone murder or terrorism
  
  No, I don't agree with your opinions. This is the problem, your comments have absolutely no basis in fact- they are opinions only- by your own admission
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  wildernessposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Is it really our fault that some people decide to murder others? I think not - although it has become ever more popular to blame someone else, anyone else, for our bad behavior the bottom line is that only the person doing it is responsible.
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  Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  No, it isn't our fault that some murder but we do bear a responsibility as a society, for the good of this society, to attempt to understand what drives some into the arms of terrorists to become one, themselves; and to work toward changing the environment which allowed it to happen. This young man, no matter how heinous the act, is also dead and I, for one, think it would be better to understand how our society is failing to keep young people from committing these atrocities then to simply demonize them as if they just decided, out of the blue, to blow themselves up.
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  wildernessposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Society "allowed" it to happen only in that it allows people freedom to act as they see fit, within wide limits. It "allows" internet conversations, it "allows" visits to other countries. It "allows" sale and ownership of dangerous tools. Personal choice dictates how that freedom is used, and if society chooses NOT to allow freedom of choice, well, I don't want to live there.
  
  Not to say that we should not do our best to figure out where the man (the man, not society) went wrong. What made him make the choice to murder, and why he followed that path to the ultimate end. And cure him of his madness. Him, not the society that gave him the freedom to act as he did.
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  Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Is it madness, wilderness? I wonder. It appears to be catching. I don't think you can catch crazy.
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  wildernessposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Well, when one kills for almost any reason I will go out on a limb and call it madness. Mental illness. Crazy as a loon. You pick the term, but it boils down to insanity. Just my opinion, but anyone with that mindset is so far out of the norm (in our society, anyway) that no other term fits as well.
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  Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  True, but how many of those can we pinpoint similar reasons which they claim drove them? It isn't as if a group of mass killers do it in the name of Pepsi. There is rarely a common thread such as this. Radical Islam is attempting to divide us. To create animosity toward Islam in the West and hope to push our Muslim neighbors into choosing sides.
  
  From what I've read ISIS is very good at recruiting through suicidal media, etc. Is it your contention that all recruits are simply mentally unbalanced?
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Glenis Rixposted 7 years ago
This attack was not targeted at women and children - though many were at the event. I suspect it may have been timed to disrupt the General Election campaign, but who knows what is in the minds of radicalised madmen. Your figures about the death toll are incorrect. The last time I checked the figures 22 innocent victims had died, around 60 were injured and some people were not accounted for. In my opiniion the extensive media coverage of this atrocity is just what the ringleaders hope for and it is generating a distasteful prurient interest in the deceased. The people who love them should be allowed to grieve without having the indignity of daily news coverage to deal with.
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  ahorsebackposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  That dignity won't ever be provided or allowed by main-stream alarmist news media , there is too much sensationalism there -----all for profit . Without the collective recognition for calling radicalized Islam what it is we are just "putting our heads in the sand " , liberals for unfettered P.C. immigration would have us all think , "there's nothing to see here" , just another concert . .........
  
  "Not targeted at women and children ?".......Okay , look at the ages , genders , family members there with them ? In the victims lists , see any soldiers , cops , politicians ,college professors ? How about plumbers and truck drivers ?
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  HollieTposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  You are basically using this tragedy to flagrantly flout your bias and spew your narrow-minded views and total ignorance. And actually, there was a police officer killed in the tragedy. The victims came from all walks of life, every gender, occupation, religion and creed. But had you have bothered to research you would have known this.
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  RJ Schwartzposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  The figure cited in the original posting was the total casualty figure (a combination of dead and wounded) - at the moment it's 23 deceased and over 120 wounded.
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  HollieTposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  This
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Glenis Rixposted 7 years ago
Let's not forget that the original inhabitants of North America, the First Nations people, were a multitude of American Indian tribes who were oppressed and marginalised by colonists. The USA is a melting pot of people with numerous different ethnic backgrounds so please think carefully before criticiising Europe.
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  Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Let's not forget that what you call the First Nations people were not the original inhabitants of North America. They were simply the current residents when the Europeans invaded.
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Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years ago
I heard Dennis Praeger ask this question of one of his guests, who, in his past, had been involved with Islamic extremism: "What if their religious leaders started explaining: (Paraphrasing)
"News Flash: You will not go to Heaven if you bomb, maim and kill others and commit suicide in the process ... You will, in all actuality, land in Hell."

The guest answered, "Yes, they would stop their violent acts."

I thought Dennis asked a good question.
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PhoenixVposted 7 years ago
Instead of Brexit, I'd be drifting the next liberal exit.
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HollieTposted 7 years ago
oh, and C: The US is no stranger to terrorism either.
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HollieTposted 7 years ago
The fact that US loses more of its citizens to gun deaths than terrorist attacks indicates to me that ahorseback's time would be better spent lobbying to tighten gun laws in his own nation, than offering his opinion about a city he has probably never visited and most likely never will.
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  ahorsebackposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  And perhaps HollieT time would be far better spent wondering about the relationship of closing of GITMO and the completely open door policies of E.U. immigration policies , contributing directly to increases in terrorism in places like the UK and across western Europe ?
  
  She might also BEGIN to comprehend the banning guns[instead of criminals ] has already been tried in places like Chicago and Baltimore and Washington DC. , and guess what ? Crimes with guns and violence increased . They have become some of the most violent cities in the world , How are those gun bans working out ?
  
  She might also brilliantly consider a ban on nuts , bolts , nails and for that matter transfer trucks That certainly , like a gun ban , will end terrorism altogether ?
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  HollieTposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Who mentioned the banning of guns? Tightening gun laws isn't banning guns. Please read the post properly before offering a knee-jerk. I thought that might rile you a bit, ahorseback, discussing murder in your own back yard and your reluctance to tackle it for want of a few small amendments to existing laws. And as for terrorism in the UK, most of it's homegrown. And what's Brexit got to with anything, if and when it actually happens, the free movement of people hasn't been decided upon.
  Again- nobody mentioned a ban, so don't be silly.
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Glenis Rixposted 7 years ago
'They know little about those in the US' As you are so vociferous about recent events in England, are we to suppose that you know more about Europe than we do about the USA? Evidently, some people involved in this forum should be at the centre of world politics- they appear to have the answers to the multifaceted problems that we face - or believe that they have.
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  ahorsebackposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Yes , in fact we do , Obviously your Brexit voters know what's best for the UK.and your immigration problems , do you ? At last count , what ? a dozen or more multiple suspects arrested there , Not exactly a "lone wolf " terror attack is it , the arrests in Libya associated in this speaks volumes about the rise of terror. Kind of hard for you to say ," Lets move along , nothing to see here ", maybe it's time to arm those "Bobby's " ?
  
  They way you feel right now is exactly the way we feel at the nosiness of foreign intervention in America's politics , how's it feel ? .
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  HollieTposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I have no problem with people discussing the UKs problems when their comments are sensible and considered. Sadly, your's are anything but. They're childish, tribal and without any substance at all. You can barely format your own posts, let alone offer plausible and worthy commentary about events occurring on the other side of the pond.
  
  Terrorism is horrible and we're getting our share of it over here, but I'm thankful that the scurge of terrorism is claiming far fewer lives over here, than your guns are over there.
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  Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Well, let's all be thankful that you find the lost lives to terrorism acceptable. Sheesh. With that known, we should probably notify the terrorists that the Brits are OK with their shenanigans.
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  HollieTposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Here we go again- another one with reading comprehension issues. When did "Terrorism is horrible and we're getting our share of it over here, but I'm thankful that the scurge of terrorism is claiming far fewer lives over here, than your guns are over there." Become:
  
  "Well, let's all be thankful that you find the lost lives to terrorism acceptable. Sheesh. With that known, we should probably notify the terrorists that the Brits are OK with their shenanigans."
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  Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Well, by my observation, it appeared that ignorance was begetting ignorance but; those with apparent anger issues would probably disagree with that assessment.
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  HollieTposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Yet another strawman- can't defend your comments about finding lost lives to terrorism so now it's about anger issues. You lack credibility.
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  Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  You lost any credibility with the comment you made which I reasoned to. But, you didn't have much to begin with.
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  HollieTposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Where's the reasoning? All I can see is an assertion about anger issues.
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  colorfuloneposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  When people have anger issues they can not see reason or apply logic. Anyone ever tired to reason with someone who is angry?
  I wish only the best for you or anyone, but there is a point where the grace of God ends. I believe it is better to seek His grace, Yeshua.
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  HollieTposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I understand. You can't back up your claims and this is your way of bowing out gracefully. No problem.
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  ahorsebackposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Your hypocrisy doesn't rile anyone at least not I , I just fully recognize hypocrisy where it lives , evil is in the heart of those who ignore laws and the natural orders of the world and no where else , its no more about guns than it is about bibles or the Quran , perhaps when refugee immigration problems get as bad for America as you have let the UK. get we can compare in the mean time , keep your head in the sand .
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  HollieTposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Most terrorists in Uk have are homegrown, they're not immigrants. But do go on, I'm sure you would love to establish a link between terrorism and immigration- this is becoming comical
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  "While most offenders were raised as Muslim, one in six was a convert. Three-quarters of offenders were previously known to the authorities; one-quarter had a previous criminal conviction. One in five offenders received terrorist training abroad or engaged in combat prior to arrest."
  
  FROM Homegrown Terrorism Is Top Threat To UK, New Report Finds http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-0 … port-finds
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  "... most offenders were raised … M-U-S-L-I-M …"
  
  interesting.
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  HollieTposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  They were, but over here they tend to be born in the UK, they're not necessarily immigrants and that's interesting too. That's what I meant by homegrown. The other problem is that both UK and US intel services were monitoring some Libyans that were known to be at risk of 'radicalisation' they were allowed to enter Libya without question when the west wanted Gaddaffi overthrown.
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Credence2posted 7 years ago
Don't pay no mind to the prime example of the ugly side of rightwing politics here in America. Just be glad that you are not living here at this particular moment in time.
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  ahorsebackposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Actually the pure ugliness in america is all from the present left , All the right has done is vote for Trump , the left however is still in Hilary meltdown "somewhere in the woods " of P.C. , somebody better go and tell Hilary that central park isn't exactly the woods , first , and secondly it is pure childish democratic meltdown obstructionism , that's all that's going on in America.
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  colorfuloneposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Meanwhile on the ugly left's-side, darling, (a shame to say an American) Chelsea Clinton says 'child marriages' are linked to 'climate change'. She being groomed by her mother to be Hillary Clinton 2.0? Pedophiles must be putting a lot money out to get lying monsters to talk crap like that. What happens when people sell their soul to the devil? Riches! ... Hell?
  Sickening!
  The Clinton's war on women continues...get'em while they are young.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  !
  https://www.c-span.org/video/?428821-1/ … conference
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  colorfuloneposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Pedophilia and climate changed are interconnected? Hillary and Bill Clinton's daughter Chelsea thinks they are. We know that Bill has been to Pedo-Island about two dozen times from flight logs, and Hillary has been there but not as many times. So, Chelsea seems to think pedophilia is normal because its linked to climate change? (I have several expletives I can't use.) What an ugly person (s)!
  0:30 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVWDgz23Ino
  
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  PhoenixVposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Everything is interconnected in their connectedness. Child Marriage. Global Warming. Peanut butter. Jelly.
  
  This is me taking the next LiberalExit.
  
  https://youtu.be/fEC12fz1ejY
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Credence2posted 7 years ago
Before we start criticizing Europeand it's problems, perhaps we need to redirect the lens and take a better look at the real source of violence and extremists here in the good ole USA.

Right wing, anti-government, race-baiting rabble type organizations. Conservatives are painfully silent about it and Trump has dismissed it as a threat most likely because he supports the ideological tenets of such groups.

Of course, the "rightwinger" will refer to the New York Times as "fake news", but they say that about any contradictory source to their nonsense.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/16/opin … .html?_r=0
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  HollieTposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  This.
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ahorsebackposted 7 years ago
It probably arises somehow from the the origins or recent inception of "woman's rights "to vote , but someone ,.... anyone ,.........will have to explain to me the utter hypocrisy of the womans vote for anyone like either of the Clintons , in any election , Bill's , Hilary's or yes even the much entitled offspring of the Clinton Mafioso , Chelsea . Is it just the simplicity of man , Or do women's rights really NOT matter all that much to other women ?

Oh hell , what's a little sex in the broom closet of the White House or the Governors residence in Little Rock ? I mean , might as well blame the victims ............right ?
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PhoenixVposted 7 years ago
I am concerned about the War on Australian Aborigines Women and Children. I know the UK used it as a place to put their convicts long ago, but is there nothing they can do? It's horrifying.
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ahorsebackposted 7 years ago
One thing I find pretty mind-numbing are comparisons from the US. , the UK.and Canada , these comparisons are absolutely insane . Crime , liberties , gun violence , health care , I don't care what the issue , America's pop. = 313 million , ..... Canada = 35 million ,....... the UK. 63 million , What sense does it make to compare anything from one nation [of these ] to another at all ?
The differences ;
- Populations per sq. mile
- Quantities of high population centers
- Law enforcement differences
- The courts
- Incarceration differences
- Culture
- Media differences

Why do people compare ........it's intellectually senseless .
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  Marisa Wrightposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I disagree. You can start by working things out on a per capita basis. So for instance, if there are 63 million people in the UK and 313 million people in the US, then that's about 20%.
  
  So you could predict that because there were 60 mass shootings in the USA in the last 20 years, you would expect 12 mass shootings in the UK in the same period. There was only one.
  
  Now we can ask, WHY the difference? Is it because people are crowded together more in the USA, living in poorer conditions? Is it because Americans are more violent, more aggressive, or more psychotic? Is it because Americans are poorly educated? Is it because the US police is so poor at catching criminals?
  
  Each of these reasons, if true, would reflect badly on American society and suggest it is much worse than British society. I'm sure you would indignantly refute such suggestions. So if none of the above is true, what other differences can you suggest to explain the difference?
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  ahorsebackposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  So in your premise one could also deduce the opposite too ? Like the costs of NATO , the obligations of America to everyone's benefit of foreign aid , the cost's of military presence and security around the world indebted to Americans , In other words why should America be paying over one quarter of the costs of Nato or the UN financial obligations ? If Canada has 1 person per square mile and America 300 per square mile , that has no bearing on crime , violence , economics , anything ? I don't think you fully understand the world of numbers .
  
  For instance this , I wonder just what the costs to America for free health care , free college are then going to cost the UK or Canada when it comes to stepping up to the plate of world security . Or , For ALL countries ? I say if America has five percent of the worlds population , we should be paying only five percent of it's bills .
  
  If France or Greece for instance , doesn't pay it's UN bills , they can have most anything they want for free , right ?.
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  colorfuloneposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  During his campaign, President Trump wondered if we should leave NATO because they weren't paying their fair share. I remember Obama talking about maybe leaving if the NATO nations didn't pay up, even Bush did that.
  
  Actions speak louder then words! It sounds like Trump put the fear of God in the free-loaders to be responsible, because much needed money has been pouring into NATO now (from what the WH said). Let them rich nations fight their own battles if they don't want to pay for NATO protection, America isn't footing the bill for them anymore.
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  Marisa Wrightposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Again, you make me smile. You said, you can't compare statistics because the countries are so different. I answered you explaining one approach and invited you to refute my argument. Now I know I've won my argument because you can't refute my argument can you? Because if you did have an answer, you would state it, instead of going off on an irrelevant rant about costs.
  
  The one relevant part of your answer is where you mention the number of people per square mile. In my case, I was talking about gun control and comparing the US with the UK. You are quite right, there is a big difference - the UK has a density of 650 people per square mile. Can you explain how this makes mass shootings less likely?
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  ahorsebackposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  That whole rant was just you saying simply that , Yes 2 + 2 = 7 . ummmmm, .....ya right you won .
  Your trophy ? Increased terror and violence in a nation once very secured . The UK.
  How is that "gun free" nation working ?
  What's next ,", nuts ,bolts , screws free zones"?
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  Misfit Chickposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  The whole wide world is screwed at the moment with your OLD populist attitudes of HATE that Trump and his minions have RE-proliferated. Here is a recent report on the skirmishes between the alt-right and the alt-left going on in Portland - White Supremacists Are Brawling with Masked Leftists in the Portland Streets. Homeland Security is Watching. http://www.wweek.com/news/2017/05/23/wh … -watching/
  
  Go ahead and LIE to us about how neither YOU nor TRUMP has had a hand in resurrecting this ancient BULLSH*T!! The anger of MODERATES is increasing to a ridiculous level - maybe that's what we need is for the MAJORITY to get involved. I, for one, am pretty sure that I could blow a hole through the head of any one of you T-DORKS who think you're so damn smart if it really came down to it - THAT is how ANGRY you have made us.
  
  Some of us have guns, some of us don't. Some of us would carry a big stick like the alt-right alpha male in the story above - others of us would only carry mean-talking signs that infuriate one side or the other. YOU TRUMP A*SWIPES STARTED THIS AND EF YOU FOR THINKING ITS SO DAMN WONDERFUL AND DEFENDING IT!!!
  
  Know of any militant Christians who participate in these alt-right rallies or cheer them on? Send them to my 1st spotlight article that DEBUNKS their pathetic 'salvation' beliefs - cuz that is where MUCH of the stupidity stems from.
  
  This is a dangerous game you dopes will only win with the help of something like ISIS. I'm willing to bet the majority of you CHEERED when the bombing at that concert happened; and you probably do every time a terrorist attack is successful anywhere. We really do NOT need people like you in this country; and you're sure as hell NOT Americans - only wannabees who happen to live here. Maybe you were even born here - in which case, you should be thoroughly ashamed of yourselves.
  
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  Aime Fposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I don't know why you think Internet-yelling and posting countless memes is the best way to have a conversation, but it's not.
  
  One of the things that bothers me the most about a few of the more extreme conservatives on this site is that they just talk at people without any intent to listen or attempt to understand where anyone else is coming from and you're doing exactly the same thing. As LtL has pointed out, it doesn't present as "moderate" at all.
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  Misfit Chickposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, it is a very moderate stance - LOOK at my position on things. Me and a WHOLE BUNCH of other moderates ARE extremely mad at you ALL for allowing things as I have outlined above to not only HAPPEN but you APPROVE of and PROLIFERATE them.
  
  I could really care LESS about whatever specific policies extreme leftists or right wingers argue about in here or anywhere else. We've had bad presidents with bad policies before; and the US has survived to deal with them. I have no-doubt that we will do the same with whatever mess Trump ends up leaving us in.
  
  When you get accused (sorry, IGNORANTLY & ERRONEOUSLY ) of being a Bernie supporter INSTEAD of a response about the actual points being made - yeah, its really REALLY easy to get upset when people are so naturally-directed to ripping others apart.
  
  That is a common T-fan comeback. "I can't make myself sound intelligent by looking at what this person is upset about; but I can sure as hell p*ss her off MORE and incite more BS from her - THAT will be funny to watch, especially when others - including the opposing side - join in!! NEATO!!"
  
  And, I'm really SICK & tired of you all whining about my very real and shared attitude. When did you all suddently become such PC snowflakes? Probably about the time you realized PC doesn't work. Congratulations, you've convinced me!!
  
  Don't like the images I post with this stuff? Its okay, poignant memes are MEANT to make you think. I totally understand how that might also hurt your head.
  
  How the Left (AND Moderates) Learned to Hate Like the Right https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/29/opin … .html?_r=0
  
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  Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Bet you were teacher's pet.
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  Misfit Chickposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  No, really... stuff like this means nothing to you people? My first post about this issue wasn't that bad UNTIL the stupid responses started - although to be sure, I was just as angry for the same 'irresponsible' reasons as I am, now.
  
  Really, HOW is it possible for you ALL not to notice NOR care about this cuh RAP?!!
  
  Nooses showing up more in hate incidents around country http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nati … story.html
  
  Someone really needs to explain that to me in a logical, non-emotional way - cuz apparently emotional responses are not something people appreciate being expressed, despite that they are intentionally provoked. I know, those of us who actually LIVE in the concentrated cities where this stuff is happening have absolutely NOTHING to worry about - so what the fluck is my problem, right?!!
  
  Wake up and stop acting like there is nothing wrong going on!!! This stuff isn't a JOKE! Its not 'locker room banter' to be brushed off!!!
  
  White Supremacists Are Brawling with Masked Leftists in the Portland Streets. Homeland Security is Watching. http://www.wweek.com/news/2017/05/23/wh … -watching/
  
  Organizers: Anti-Muslim rally planned for Portland moved to Seattle
  http://komonews.com/news/local/anti-mus … to-seattle
  
  Antifascist protester shot by Trump supporter amid mass counterprotest on UW campus, but Yiannopoulos spins a tale of martyrdom to his audience at end of speaking tour. https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/201 … ing-inside
  
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  PrettyPantherposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  We're supposed to just accept that all this stuff is normal and has nothing to do with the fact that we elected a man who encouraged violence at his rallies, bragged about grabbing pussies, gets along better with kings and dictators than with our long standing European allies, and just aligned himself with Syria and Nicaragua rather than 195 other countries. Nothing to see here. What the hell are you worried about?
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  Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I'll respond to this one post of yours. You may not realize it but you come off as so angry that you are emotionally unbalanced. If this is not the case, you might work on less anger, less emotion and less insults when you post a comment. As it stands it is hard to take you seriously other than to seriously recommend anger management classes.
  
  And your penchant for attaching little poster after poster is a but of an insult to the others here to have to trudge through to get to the next comment made by those respectful enough not to import so much. If you can't construct sentences to get your point across a writer's site might not be your best place to share thoughts.
  
  That said, I disagree with your apparent assessment that attempts to maintain law and order is somehow white supremacy. Trump was elected. I keep repeating (but I'll do it again) he is not God, a king or a dictator. He isn't there for life and he is in charge of one branch of government. The courts have kicked him to the curb and will continue to do so if out of line. He can't pass any laws without agreement from the House and Senate and he only has four years (maybe less if found guilty of breaking any laws).
  
  I'm sorry these obvious facts elude protestors. Maybe, if they would calm down and use their brains (this advice would be helpful to others, you know who you are) they would find more productive outlets for their opposition to the man.
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  Marisa Wrightposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  "That whole rant"- are you referring to your rant? Because I did not rant. I set out my case in a reasoned fashion.
  
  If you think my logic was flawed, and that I was saying "2+2=7", then explain WHERE the logic is flawed, in a calm sensible manner. Going off on a tangent achieves nothing except to obfuscate, which is what politicians do when they have no answers and are just trying to fool the people. So I am left with the conclusion that you're doing the same. What other conclusion can I draw?
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  Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I'd be curious to know how many people in the UK are on the same drugs that were being prescribed to quite a few of those mass shooters.
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ahorsebackposted 7 years ago
Ummmmh Misfit Chick , is everything okay over there , Had too much triple chocolate latte caffeine maybe ?
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  Misfit Chickposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Nope. Just really really INCREDIBLY p*ssed that Trump is turning out to be a much WORSE potus than any of us could have imagined.
  
  Now one of these rallies - the 'anti-muslim' one - that were going to be held in Portland (remember the link I left above that you no-doubt didn't read) is being moved to MY home, Seattle - which has had its own protest issues. Interestingly, most of these 'alt-right' folks are from OUT of the cities - but for some reason find it imperative to come into DIVERSE cities to cause trouble. Why, is there no one left to infuriate within your own quiet, backwoods, conservative towns?
  
  http://komonews.com/news/local/anti-mus … to-seattle
  
  LOOK AT THE RESPONSE OF THESE ALT-RIGHT AS*HOLES - this is why this one is being moved to Seattle:
  
  "Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler asked organizers to cancel both events in light of last week's deadly stabbing aboard a MAX train. (SHAME ON PORTLAND'S MAYOR FOR NOT WANTING THESE RALLIES IN HIS CITY - Suspect in Portland Hate Crime Murders is a Known White Supremacist http://www.portlandmercury.com/blogtown … upremacist)
  
  The "Free Speech" rally will go on as planned in Portland, but Presler announced Wednesday that the anti-Muslim rally is canceled (NOW MOVED TO SEATTLE)... "Due to Mayor Wheeler's inflammatory comments and what we feel is an incitement of violence, he has shamefully endangered every scheduled participant. Consequently, in order to ensure the safety of those who had planned on attending, we have taken the decision to cancel the Portland March Against Sharia. Despite our desire to proceed, we cannot allow innocent Americans to be harmed by radical and violent anti-American zealots that Mayor Wheeler's comments have no doubt incited,".
  
  Violence that THE MAYOR INCITED?!!
  
  Trump and his supporters have caused this mess... The people of America are not going to forget that.
  
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  ahorsebackposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Wow , so YOU'RE from SEATTLE , well that explains all that is going on in all your posts !
  
  You are no doubt part of the youthful "brainy" lead march on all that is wrong with your lives. seeking employment at $80 .00 per hour , free ............well free everything from a nanny state government all paid for by everybody else in the world around you ,, cuz all that has been dropped on you in entering the real world??????
  
  You'll have to excuse all I've said ,I'm sorry , I didn't realise you were part of the new generation of the fully entitled.!
  
  Want some advice , Catch up to evolution !
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  Misfit Chickposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  You've come to the wrong conclusion - again. Do I LOOK like a young adult to you?!! If you had been reading my posts, you would have noticed my very MODERATE stance. I'm not for 100% free anything; and I don't support a*sholes like Trump for the same reason that most of the rest of the people in this country don't: we have higher standards - meaning, the hateful rhetoric that Trump used to inspire, embolden & provoke people like you who think hate is NEAT was reason enough NOT to vote for him, no matter which side of the political isle we were on...
  
  for the VERY REASONS I have been complaing about in these last three posts.
  
  Actually read them, you might learn something - <personal attack snipped>.
  
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  ahorsebackposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Your responses and cartoons show far more than you admit , You are far from any moderate left , at least I hope you are , Your language and pictures are of something other than moderate . If the moderate left is represented in your responses , we are all in trouble.
  The bitter hatred and obstruction of any of Trumps progress from your camp has grown to include pure unrestricted . hatred , no manners , no dialog , the likes of 'Kathy Griffin - politics" are all over the internet , and all over your responses .
  
  I think I'm done debating you . You win !
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  Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Moderate? You? Interesting assessment. Do you read your posts? Maybe you should actually read them, you might learn something about yourself - <personal attack snipped>.
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  promisemposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Case in point ...
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  Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  
  Anyone who consistently calls the opposition a**, ignorant and such can't be considered moderate.
  
  This is a case in point of why your posts are so trivial.
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  promisemposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Peace be with you.
  
  "Forget the churches. I would say come to your own understanding of Christ's teachings and live as closely as possible to that understanding. Don't worry about what others do (whether Christian or otherwise) but stay true to your own understanding."
  
  - Live to Learn, HubPages.com
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  PhoenixVposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Wait for it..debunked.
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  promisemposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  What, that Live to Learn is a Christian?
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  Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I'm beginning to think you like me, in a strange stalker kind of way.
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  Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  Yep. I'll need a little clarification on that one, also.
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  PhoenixVposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  oic ya want a ruling.
  
  ok
  
  Thou Shalt Not Post Memeszzzz on my data plan.
  
  youre all good
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  Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this
  I love the fact that you quote me. Makes me feel special. Famous, even, in a small way.
  
  I'll be honest (although I always do try to be, anyway) I'm not certain you are making any significant point here. I am staying true to my understanding. Love your neighbor as yourself. Were I to be an ass, or trivial, I'd certainly hope someone would point it out.
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abwilliamsposted 7 years ago
Wow....anyone here remember T.R.O.L.L. Don't Taze me Bro? He was banned from HP. I can't even imagine how horrible whatever it was that he said must have been.
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Aime Fposted 7 years ago
I'm not trying to piss you off, I'm trying to tell you that you're not going to convince anyone of anything when you're presenting your arguments in such a frantic and aggressive manner. I couldn't even relay back to you what your arguments even are and I've read your posts. It kind of just seems like you're really angry, which is fine, but take a moment to channel that into something that might appeal to others rather than just smashing your fingers against the keyboard.

If you want to just rant without a care in the world if anyone hears you or understands you then go for it, but there are probably better places to do that than a discussion forum. If you want to actually discuss something then I think it's worth re-evaluating how you're speaking to people.

I'm not meaning to single you out as you're not the only one guilty of the hyperaggressive posts but from what I can tell I think I tend to agree with you on some of what you're trying to say, and it would be cool if you could put it out there in a way that actually makes people think about it rather than turning them off of the ideas because of how you're presenting them.
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