We don't need no education

1. 81

   Uninvited Writerposted 14 years ago

   I saw a previous posting and thought from reading it that the US was planning to brainwash children and get them to force their parents to vote for Obama's policies. I hadn't heard anything about it so looked around to find out and read several articles. Look what I found about it, it is about encouraging children to stay in school :
   
   It was on the CBS.com blog so I guess that means some won't believe it like they would if it appeared on Rush Limbaugh's radio show...
   
   

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2. 62

   Mishaposted 14 years ago

   Back to the USSR

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      jiberishposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      It's so much easier to endoctrinate the youth.

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3. 60

   tantrumposted 14 years ago

   'The Wall' at its best

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   Daniel Carterposted 14 years ago

   What seems to be important is the message that kids need an education and should stay in school to make the best life for themselves. It seems sad and strange that it has to get so convoluted with political crap.
   
   There is a song from "South Pacific" that I think may have a little relevance here Although it deals principally with race issues, it could just as well look at conservatives and liberals as two different opposing races. (At least in my head there is a comparison.) Here's the lyric:
   
   You've got to be taught
   To hate and fear,
   You've got to be taught
   From year to year,
   It's got to be drummed
   In your dear little ear
   You've got to be carefully taught.
   
   You've got to be taught to be afraid
   Of people whose eyes are oddly made,
   And people whose skin is a diff'rent shade,
   You've got to be carefully taught.
   
   You've got to be taught before it's too late,
   Before you are six or seven or eight,
   To hate all the people your relatives hate,
   You've got to be carefully taught!

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      Leta Sposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Excellent post.  REAL education is important...no matter what form it takes.

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         earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         That is some poem! Believe it or not I have never seen SOM all the way through, as I could not stand the lead Julie Andrews voice, or at least not THAT song!

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            Leta Sposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I've never seen it.  Never been to Brazil, either.  Not afraid to admit these things.   lol  Still believe in good education.  That doesn't probably make sense, but I'm getting tired!

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5. 81

   Uninvited Writerposted 14 years ago

   Very apropos...

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6. 81

   Uninvited Writerposted 14 years ago

   A previous presidential speech given to school children:
   
   http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/archives/s … 11488c.htm

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      blue dogposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      some things are almost painful to read.  only in america...

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7. 62

   Lisa HWposted 14 years ago

   I don't know enough about the specific speech or any suggested related activities to know whether I'd see any legitimate point (or "partial point") of the Republican(s) who spoke up (which is not all of them, of course).
   
   I do know that the guys on my local talk radio (one Democrat, one Independent or Republican; I'm not sure) keep saying (and having people call and say) how Obama seems to be giving a "weekly lecture" of one sort of another; and how, in some opinions, it's getting to seem a little inappropriate.  The Democrat joked that he longs for the days of Bush, who remained hidden (or something like that).   A lot of Americans just don't want to be hearing from "government people" when it comes to things like values and aims, even if they're sound ones.
   
   Whether or not this new school thing is harmless or not, it comes after decades of public schools having policies and practices that take away the rights of parents in any number of ways.  A lot of Americans have become pretty sick of seeing their own rights to decide who shares what values with their children; and I suspect any reaction to this new thing is just part of that.  Contrary to "we don't want no education", a lot of parents who object to schools and "government people" using up time to talk about values, rather than devoting all "school time" and resources to academics.  Caring parents aim to share with their kids the "right educational goals".  Uncaring parents aren't going to care one way or the other whether Obama does a speech or not.  On top of everything else, a lot of people (Democrats included) are "all-Obama's-opinioned-out" at this point.   As I said, I don't have an opinion on this particular thing, one way or the other.  If I had children in school it would depend on what the speech includes.  Still, in fairness to some of the people who find it objectionable; it isn't about their not wanting education.

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8. 81

   Uninvited Writerposted 14 years ago

   Don't all presidents have a weekly address?

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9. 60

   Jane@CMposted 14 years ago

   My son starts school next Tuesday.  They are not allowed to say the Pledge anymore, no religion in school either, so I sure hope they are not going to shove politics down their throats and I don't care who is President - Democrat or Republican.  Yes, they need history, economics, etc, but not this. I don't think our school will participate.  We have a levy on the ballot & they do not want to piss parents off at this stage of game.

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10. 84

    SweetiePieposted 14 years ago

    We have some overly controlling parents.  That is my take on this.  Big deal if Obama speaks at your school, and the to do made out of it appears to be much to do about nothing.  I had a substitute teacher tell us there was no God in school, and I do not recall the sky falling with that comment.

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       Lisa HWposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       My kids aren't in school any longer, so I'm not speaking from "parental concern" here; but I think the issue (for those for whom it IS an issue) is the principle of the thing (a government figure directly addressing the children) but also concerns about the potential content of the message, as well).  Many people don't want political figures introducing their version of what people ought to do to children.  It isn't "overly-controlling" for parents to want politics and political figures separate from their child's education, and/or to want to have a say in what non-academic messages are passed to them in the public-school setting.

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       1. 84

          SweetiePieposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          We had a link here showing that Ronald Reagan did something very similar to Obama.  To me it is a bit controlling to worry about a short speech given by a president, and parents are lucky they have so much access to what is going to be said.  As someone who has always been interested in history I find it fascinating to have any politician come to a classroom, and that is an opportunity for kids to learn about the political process.  Also, I consider it to be very academic as from what I have read on the White House webpage he will be encouraging kids to stay in school.
          
          When it comes to non-political figures you would be surprised how many ideas your kids are exposed to in public school.  Many of them you would definitely not agree with, so why sweat about it?  If you teach your kids your values they will be able to think for themselves.  I still think the whole thing about the Obama speeches is much to do about nothing, but you are welcome to feel differently.
          
          Also, why should one group of parents deprive other students who could benefit from listening to what Obama has to say?  If some parents object to their kids listening they could go hang out in the library during the speech.

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             tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Dictators love people like you.

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11. 60

    Becca's Blogposted 14 years ago

    My son's have had Biology teachers who did not believe in evolution and all sorts of crazies. I was lucky we had wonderful teachers of diverse backgrounds who shared who there were with us with out trying to make us see things their way. It is a big world , only those with little minds do not want our children to learn everything they can from many prospectives.The President is an important figure for children to hear speak on a wide range of topics simply because he is President. If you want your child to only know your view point home school them or send them to religious school. Racism is really what all the anti Obama stuff is about. No rational person would object to any adult telling their children to work hard in school and make something of themselves.

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       Leta Sposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Very much agree with your last point.  My partner was just saying the same thing...no matter how you slice it...it is racism.  One of the tools of these types is that they use doublespeak, thus they call Obama himself a racist.
       
       And yes, some of my bf's sons' teachers preach politics in place of science and history, too.  It's amazing how some kids have naturally good bullsh*t detectors, though...and good.

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       tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Bullshit. THAT kind of reaction is real racism and the most transparent partisan nonsense.

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12. 0

    Leta Sposted 14 years ago

    Thanks for that education moabofo. 
    
    You could put all that in a hub; hope to make some $$.... Here, it will just get deleted.

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       Aquaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Yeah! Makes you wonder why he didn't just write a hub...???

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13. 62

    Lisa HWposted 14 years ago

    It's unfortunate for Bush that his supporters didn't have the "racism card" to throw around every time someone criticized and/or expressed hatred of him.  More interestingly, why wasn't it "racism" when the anti-Bush-administration people criticized or didn't like Condoleeza Rice?  Is it that difficult to believe that a good chunk of the population, including a lot of people who voted for Obama, aren't thrilled with him based on what he's doing??  The man is getting the exact same treatment that Bush (and so many other presidents have gotten).  If it seems worse it's because he's made so many big moves in such a short period of time.

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       SweetiePieposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       However, many people are actually happy with his administration.  The people who voted for him that are not thrilled tend to be voters on the fence and swing voters.  My friend at work was even surprised to learn people felt this way because she only listens to the news briefly, and does not come on forums like Hubpages.  Some of us actually are very supportive of Obama, and we should not have to apologize for that.  Democratic support for Obama has gone up in the polls actually.

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          nicompposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Please provide the polling data.

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          tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          The dems don't care because that is NOT the problem they are facing.

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14. 75

    Eaglekiwiposted 14 years ago

    Rome was once a Great Empire ,yet it collapsed.
    
    I believe if you take away good foundations (like the principles of solid values that foster honesty, integrity,justice, then so too will America collapse.
    Other nations have struggled for the exact same reasons.
    
    Finanancially its a wake-up call,but I wonder if anyones really listening anymore.
    
    Remove God by all means ,but dont blame him when the structure of society weakens even further.
    And how will kids choose anything, if they are not presented with both options.
    
    Also ,I cant beleive all the nonsense stirred up by bitter Repuplicans over Pres.Obama speaking to the nations schools??
    
    How selfish of them to want to deny that privilege to the kids.
    Bush did it, actually when Katrina hit ,he heard the news while he was in some classroom...
    
    I always thought being the President of The United States was a hard task ,but I never thought his greatest enemies were actually his own people...very wierd to me!
    
    Ok sorry I hate generalising so no, that ,thank God is not all Americans, but if the majority of you voted him in ,why dont you tell the rest to ..'Shut Up"

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15. 62

    Lisa HWposted 14 years ago

    SweetiePie, I don't think (for those who object to his giving a speech to children) it's necessarily a matter of whether they like his administration/politics or not.  Granted, it may be more objectionable to people who aren't his fans; but, again, I think it's more the principle of the thing.
    
    When my kids were in school the presidents were Bush (41), Clinton, and Bush (43).  If any of them had planned a similar address I would have wanted to know the contents, and I would have expected it be limited to only an absolutely, "universally agree upon" "stay-in-school" type of message only.   Also, though, I may not have been thrilled to have the "two cents" of a political figure being introduced to school children.
    
    Eaglekiwi, "And how will kids choose anything, if they are not presented with both options."
    
    One very real problem with something like this speech thing is that there are good parents who will make sure their kids learn about all the sides and options at home.  Then there are other parents who will only teach what their own values (which they believe are "the only right values"), which should, I suppose, be their right as parents.   Then there are those who teach nothing, and that's often the reason authorities think the government should "step in" and "send the right message".  The first two groups would generally be considered "good parents" (after all, it isn't really anyone's business if someone tries to raise a little Republican; kids do their own thing anyway if they have generally good parents who encourage independent thinking).  The third group would not; and I don't know what kind of percentage of the general population that third group makes up.  If, as I think, the majority of parents are good parents who don't want/need anyone "presuming" to send their version of "what to do"  then that's the problem for so many people.

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       Eaglekiwiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Yes I agree and I know what you are saying. My thoughts and feelings were and still are exactly how I felt when they removed Religion from schools and replaced it with Scientific theories.
       Now the parents who removed their children for fear of being indoctrinated had that choice. But it progressed to the point of ok so now Gods gone ,lets up the other eastern religions and anything really, in the name of ???
       Buddha (example) may be the backbone for an Eastern Country ,but why oh why do Western countries bend over backwards to please their 'guests' and compromise their own traditions and religions in the process!.. I know for example certain countries ban the bible ,yet they are enjoy freedom to practice and teach in someone else country,our social agencies even support them more than some of their own....thats not equality or even right.
       
       
       Sorry, that makes me very annoyed.
       
       How will the kids know America is united if all this fuss and (some cases) hostility is so loud over their President.

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          Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          LOL
          
          But if we teach bible study instead of scientific fact - all the kids will be as ignorant as you. I wonder why you feel the need to bring your lack of education in to so many conversations.
          
          Religion was never replaced with scientific throries - it is no wonder you are so upset about the whole thing if that is what you think.
          
          It should never have been the place of school to indoctrinate children into an irrational belief system - that is what you do at home.

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             tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             This is not the religion forum. Not getting enough attention for your bigotry over there?

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          tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Ya! Da children must be united in service to Dear Leader! No dissent shall be forgiven! Next, we train da children to report their parents if they are not loyal enough to Dear Leader.

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16. 84

    SweetiePieposted 14 years ago

    http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/presi … ng-august/
    
    Anyway, why does it bother you so that the majority of Democrats still support Obama, which they continue to do.  All I am saying is there is nothing wrong with liking our president.

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    Lisa HWposted 14 years ago

    SweetiePie, I don't know if you're addressing me or Nicomp (guessing Nicomp), but it doesn't bother me how many people support Obama.  That's their business.  What he does now that he's in is, of course, my business; but I take that "a-thing-he-does" at a time.   

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18. 84

    SweetiePieposted 14 years ago

    It also depends on the school district and the community where you live.  I went to a public school with a large Christian community, and many of the teachers actual spent more time on Christianity and Islam than the eastern religions in our history class.
    
    We also had several teachers that hosted a Christian club on campus.  There are some places where teachers have more leeway in talking about religion and the Bible because people in the community would not object to it.

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    Eaglekiwiposted 14 years ago

    Ye I didnt mean to pick out one religion in particular , but its the principle that doesnt sit well with me.
    
    I know if I was a kid right now, it would be the coolest thing that the President was coming to my school...surely kids today have far worse concepts rammed down their throats as it is.
    
    I wonder if those same parents really know everything that is being taught?

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20. 75

    Eaglekiwiposted 14 years ago

    No I did not say teach one instead of the other ,for goodness sake if you are going to respond to my posts complete with a daily insult at least have the decency to get your facts right!
    
    Most of our schools ,definately university's are full of either Atheists or New age Professors who ram their lies down our young peoples throats in the name of education?
    
    What total bs!
    
    I was raised to examine all kinds of theories and beliefs ,then I chose accordingly.
    
    We can see the results of all the free thinkers out there ,lol, most of them couldnt give a monkeys for their fellowbeing so longs as their god, money is $$$ doubling, well ya can just blame the wars and murders on Religion nice try ,but not an educated one
    
    Oh and I dont need a dictionary thanks all the same Mark ,you will just have to multi-task or ignore me.

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       Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       
       
       Sure - "removed and replaced with" it very different to "teach one instead of the other."
       
       You sure you don't need a dictionary?

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          Eaglekiwiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Religions was supposed to be seen as a theory ?

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             Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             The theory of religion? Which has been supplanted by atheist and New Age science lies?
             
             What on earth are you talking about?

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          Eaglekiwiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Um that would be a theasaurus ,anyway Im sure that Im sure ok!

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21. 75

    Eaglekiwiposted 14 years ago

    Difference with me and your thinking Mark is this
    
    I want open education ie 'All things taught'
    
    You would like everything taught except Religion
    
    Am I correct?

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    1. 58

       Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       No sweetheart - I want real science taught and irrational beliefs kept in your head where they belong.
       
       Other wise the next generation will be as ignorant as you seem to be. 
       
       But - if you are going to teach kids about religion - I certainly agree they should be taught about as many as possible and certainly be made aware of the conflicts and wars caused by them.

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22. 75

    Eaglekiwiposted 14 years ago

    I agree....Real Science!!
    
    Evolution is not science its a theory ,so leave that out, and I agree to leaving Creation out ( of Science) deal?

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    1. 58

       Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       LOL
       
       What are you talking about? - the fact that evolution happens is not in question. Just because you are deluded enough to think the dinosaurs drowned in the flood is no reason to stop teaching the fact that evolution happens.
       
       The scientific theory to explain the actual mechanism is constantly adapting as we learn more.
       
       Sorry you were taught that "god did it," and "the complex and ever changing theory of evolution that you need to think about and do some work to understand," were exactly the same thing and you could either pick the 3 word answer or learn something.
       
       Guess which one you picked.
       
       As to that other question - yes - there are millions of subjects that I am completely ignorant about.

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          Eaglekiwiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          I think you are deluded.

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       White Teethposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       That is just a mantra of people who do not have a clue what science is. Pretty much all scientists say evolution is fact, so why exactly do you feel compelled to go against all of science to make such a silly claim?
       
       You know more about what science is than a million scientists? Do you know which scientific theory makes your refrigerator work? It is just a “theory”...
       
       “Science is what scientists do” is a pretty simple but effective definition of science. A judge used it once to ban the teaching of creation in science class.
       
       Most people so vocal about keeping evolution out of high school textbooks also believe that the world is only 10,000 years old or less. Along with removing evolution, they wanted to remove dinosaurs and carbon dating from textbooks as well.
       
       If the world is only 10,000 years old, then science just doesn’t work…and none of you high tech gadgets should work…but they do….

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23. 62

    Lisa HWposted 14 years ago

    I'm of the generation when we still said "The Lord's Prayer" (along with "The Pledge of Allegiance" to the flag) in elementary school.  By secondary school, the prayer was replaced with a "moment of silence", and there was no more saluting the flag either.   Other than the prayer, though, there wasn't a single mention of either God or any of the teacher's personal values/beliefs about anything in twelve years of public school (mostly during the 1960's).  It was all about academics.  In my family, we went to Sunday school for the religious indoctrination.    That's how I think it should be (and wasn't by the time my kids were in school).  Apparently, based on what SweetiePie has said, a lot of people in my generation had more "religion-free" schooling than some in later generations have.
    
    I agree with Eaglekiwi, though, about some of the lopsidedness when it comes to belief in God versus belief in "other stuff" (religious-related or anything else not related to academics).  I think everything that isn't academics ought to be driven back into people's homes. 
    
    As far as the "president thing" goes, I don't think it's such a bad thing for kids to learn that no matter who the president is, there will always be people who are free to complain about what he/she does - and that's part of our Democracy.  Americans, in their feisty and strange ways, have usually shown that when it really matters they tend to be united behind, or against, a President.  I think today's kids will see that, the way people of other generations have.

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    Eaglekiwiposted 14 years ago

    I am an educated ,smart and an intelligent person, can agree that I am ignorant about some things,definately.
    
    What about you ? any humility in those private schooled bones lol which by the way seemed to have screwed your outlook on life quite alot. Shame that.

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25. 0

    rednckwmnposted 14 years ago

    Ok, I think I might have missed something, so, everyone is mad becasue the president said kids should stay in school? Or was it that politics should not be taught in school? or is this something about evolution vs. creation? or Democrats vs. Republicans?
    lets all have a moment of silence....

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       Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       LOL NO, everybody is mad cause the president tries to impersonate the state in kids' minds.

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          rednckwmnposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          ? what does that have to do with evolution? I think it must be mighty hard to run a school and keep everyone happy....

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          Eaglekiwiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Yes thats terrible ,it would be far better for them to believe the real world is in Hollywood ,oh my

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             rednckwmnposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             WHAT???!!! no way...it isnt?

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                Eaglekiwiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                No no was jesting mean they already are allowed to watch so much crap on TV, whats so bad about them hearing a Politician (who just happens to be their Pres. speak)

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    Lisa HWposted 14 years ago

    Maybe everybody's just mad about about everything in general.  I know I am.   

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       Eaglekiwiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       High 5's Lisa ,Im not really mad, more disappointed I guess, and thankful that my kids had choices.(except homework was always non-negotiable) lol.

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    Mishaposted 14 years ago

    Oh, evolution came in later, as it always does when you have Mark and religionists on the same thread

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       rednckwmnposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       I need to stay away from politics and religion when I have a cold...Im off, I think my gmail finally opend. have a good day Misha. who isnt me. 

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          Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Have a good day, too
          
          Am I talking to myself?

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             rednckwmnposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             probablly. crazy people are like that.  gmail still down....

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                Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Yep, we definitely are

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    Eaglekiwiposted 14 years ago

    ...All we are is just another brick in the wall

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    Lisa HWposted 14 years ago

      I love the direction these things take. 
    
    My sister's opinion (may as well bring her opinion into this too) is that Obama has "his face on tv so much" he'll find work in Hollywood once he's no longer president.   

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       Eaglekiwiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Lol@ sis having her 2 cents worth too ,why not and welcome, sigh her up Lisa ...
       Never a truer word spoken ,wow imagine if we had just one week without any Politics anywhere??

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