Wow...I actually agree with Obama on this....I must be sick....

1. 69

   TimTurnerposted 13 years ago

   I had no idea that the U.S. didn't allow people with HIV to come into the country.  Obama just lifted that ban.
   
   http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091030/ap_ … obama_aids

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      egivposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Yeah, even as it stands now, an HIV test is a requirement to getting a visa... the list of factors that disqualify you seem a little ridiculous (taken from the State Dept website):
      
      Trafficking in Drugs
      Having HIV/AIDS
      Overstaying a previous visa
      Practicing polygamy
      Advocating the overthrow of the government
      Submitting fraudulent documents
      
      I'm sure that list has kept many would-be overthrowers from entering!

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         tksenseiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Set aside the one on HIV if you like, does that mean you find the other items on that list "ridiculous"?!

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            Mishaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Yes, practicing polygamy definitely, and overthrowing a government sort of open to debate.

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               tksenseiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               We've got far too many polygamists in the country already. Don't need any more.

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                  Mishaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  LOL May be, but it does not really provide for a reasonable entry restriction IMO. At the end polygamists do not compete on a job market more than monogamists.

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                     lostgirlscatposted 13 years agoin reply to this

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                        lostgirlscatposted 13 years agoin reply to this

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            egivposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Haha calm down. Obviously we don't want drug traffickers and government overthrowers. It just seems a little random to include polygamy and having HIV, which seem relatively harmless, with all these other things. As if someone would stop at the border because of this list anyway... that's what makes it ridiculous, not the general fact that we are selective about who enters.

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      Harvey Stelmanposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Of course he wants them, to give them aid! Oh, you said AID's. He should keep them all in the White House.

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         donotfearposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         OOOHhhh!  Harvey's BAAACk!  Way to go.

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      Bibowenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      It is right to quarantine an illness to keep it from spreading; it doesn’t matter what the illness; how many celebrities have raised “awareness” about it, or how much money goes to PR to maintain the illusion that those that have the disease are “victims.” Your compassion to a specific person or group has limits; you cannot use your compassion to put a bullet in someone else’s head.
      
      Sometimes public health officials might find it difficult to quarantine some so that others will not be infected.  But that’s what we pay them for; to make the difficult choices and we should expect that public officials will do what is right by the United States (which is what they took an oath to do) rather than bowing to every interest that intimidates them or holds out the prospect for future lining of their campaign pockets.

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   livelongerposted 13 years ago

   Yes, long overdue. The last idiotic piece of legislation from that human trash, Jesse Helms, finally taken off the books.

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   A Texanposted 13 years ago

   Thats just what we need, more people with disease, how did anyone ever think that preventing them entry was a good idea? How about now we let those with TB or any other deadly disease in, seems kinda mean.

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      TimTurnerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      HIV isn't deadly anymore buddy!

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         A Texanposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Yeaaaaaaah, so rush out and get infected.

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            TimTurnerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Since black women are the leading HIV group, we might as well ban them from coming into the U.S., right?
            
            And we should go ahead and kick out the ones that have it now.  Sound good?

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               A Texanposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Now you know where you can go and get infected with this Not deadly disease, the rest that you wrote is emotional drivel! I bet you agree with Obama on many things.

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                  TimTurnerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  I think you've seen me back you in many forum posts about Obama dude.
                  
                  And I think that was a pretty racist comment you made about "now you know where you can go and get infected."  Where exactly? I dare you to say whats on your mind.

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                     A Texanposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Racist? Because you mention the group who is being infected and I point out that is where you can go to get infected, that is racist? That is what was on my mind! Now instead of having an emotional reaction to what I wrote why don't you show me where AIDS is not deadly, that should be great news for Africa!!

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                        TimTurnerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Black women isn't a "where" so "where" would you find them since you know "where you can go to get HIV".
                        
                        And HIV and AIDS are TWO different things.  Read up buddy

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               tksenseiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Your charge would carry more weight if it weren't completely illogical.

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            TimTurnerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Dude, HIV hasn't been deadly for many years.  Ever heard of Magic Johnson?  lol

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               Jeffrey Nealposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Very first result in Google:
               
               Speeding HIV's Deadly Spread
               http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co … 01607.html
               
               Article is from 2007.  I'm no expert, but I thought HIV was the virus that causes AIDS, right?
               
               Now why is it wrong to block more infected people from coming into the country?
               
               And Magic Johnson? Well, I believe he lied or he is the only one to have found a cure?

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                  TimTurnerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  The link you provided is HIV cases in Botswana.  So yeah, they dont have the healthcare like we do

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                     A Texanposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     HIV turns into AIDS, just because Majic Johnson has lived without contracting AIDS, yet, doesn't mean he will not get it. As far as your racist theory, it needs work!

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                     Jeffrey Nealposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     So we should give them visas to take advantage of ours right?   I get it now.
                     
                     No, I read far enough to realize they were talking about Africa, but that was in response to your broad general statement that HIV is not deadly.  It may be better controlled, but I still see very little logic in allowing others into the country without knowing their intent.  They carry a potentially deadly, incurable virus and perhaps their intent is to infect as many people as possible.  It's just irresponsible, but that's my humble opinion.

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                        TimTurnerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Like I said, 45% of all NEW HIV cases are 15 to 24 year olds.  So this disease triggers them to just want to infect people randomly?  No!
                        
                        Just because you have the disease doesn't mean you are randomly going to infect people.
                        
                        That is a crazy assumption dude.

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                           Jeffrey Nealposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           Hmm, dude , it's crazy to assume you know what anyone will do.
                           
                           You know the U.S. used to quarantine immigrants regularly right?
                           
                           Let's see 15-24, that's just about the right age to allow your sex drive to overcome your brain, right?  I'm just saying I think it's irresponsible to lift the ban is all.  Obviously we disagree, but I'm not seriously invested in arguing about it, so I'll let it be.

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                              TimTurnerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              Don't be scared to argue constructively.
                              
                              Ok so we keep the ban on HIV people from entering...but there are 8 more diseases that kill more people and can be spread sexually or by human contact.  Should those people with one of those 8 diseases be allowed in the country like they have been?
                              
                              Why would you ban a "middle of the run" disease but not the others above it?
                              
                              I just want to see what you think about that. Makes sense to ban the other people with the other diseases, right?

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                                 Jeffrey Nealposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 I never said anything about the others, but since you asked sure. Keep 'em out.  Not scared to argue, just having dinner.

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                                    TimTurnerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                    Well I strongly disagree.  You can easily tread down Hitler's ideology on that thinking but weeding out 'the weak' and 'sick' because you would eventually start kicking people out of the U.S. if you think like that.

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                        TimTurnerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        And maybe their "intent" could be to get treated since we have the best medicine for it.

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                  TimTurnerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  And so people with AIDS or HIV will just knowingly spread it?  Is that what you're saying?
                  
                  So lets just block anyone with an STD from entering.  You can die from herpes and syphillis and even chicken pox.   Hell, lets block those people to.
                  
                  Anyone with the flu?  Can't come to the U.S.
                  
                  Oh you're a Republican, nope sorry, can't come back in.
                  
                  Where would it end?

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                  tksenseiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  It's not.

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               Len Cannonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Magic Johnson is not typical.  HIV is treatable and it is possible to live with it, but it is ultimately fatal and no one should feel that it is not something they have to worry about.  It will still significantly shorten the life of anyone who has it, and that's assuming they're able to afford the very, very, very expensive drugs that treat it.
               
               I don't think that people with HIV should be prevented entry to the United States if they meet all other requirements for immigration. After all, our for-profit health care is probably only going to make the US money in the long run.  But I don't think it is good to downplay the very real danger that HIV/AIDS presents as a disease.

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                  TimTurnerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  I'm not downplaying it but it is no longer a top killer.  There are several more diseases that kill more people and are passed on easier.
                  
                  The rate of death is down 96% since 1996 and continues to fall.  Magic Johnson is more the majority than minority now with HIV.
                  
                  I'm saying if we ban people with HIV, might as well ban the other more deadly diseases to.

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            lostgirlscatposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Did you seriously just say that?  Or is it just your medication is overdue? I'm speaking to the person who says HIV is just dandy now. I've got a few dead relatives and friends who would beg to differ- if only they could.

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         tksenseiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Are you kidding?

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      Friendlywordposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      This is very disturbing! I have to agree with Tex! eww

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   Mighty Momposted 13 years ago

   Maybe they could disqualify you if you meet 2 or more of the criteria. Like you can get in if you are HIV+ OR a wannabe government overthrower. But not both

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      wyanjenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      

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   TimTurnerposted 13 years ago

   HIV death rates have dropped 96% since 1996 from a study in 2008: http://health.usnews.com/articles/healt … cally.html
   
   What surprises me is that 45% of all NEW HIV cases are from 15 to 24 year olds.
   
   Holy cow! I guess we gotta ship the young kids out of here!

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      A Texanposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      You don't seem to understand your own post, we are not talking about shipping people with the disease out, but barring them entrance. Emotional responses make you look desperate.

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         TimTurnerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Barring will turn to shipping out.  Where would it end?  You are so big on government not controlling our lives and taking over but you are ok with the government banning people from entering because of a stereotype?
         
         AIDS kills far less than other diseases or viruses.  Why would we just ban people with AIDS or HIV?  doesn't make sense.
         
         If you're gonna ban people from entering with one disease, you might as well ban all the other disease that kill MORE people too.
         
         This law was done because everyone use to think it was a "gay disease" but now we know it's not.

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            tksenseiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Why hasn't it for the last 20 years?

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   prettydarkhorseposted 13 years ago

   HIV-AIDS can be spread through using infected needles and unprotected sex (not using condom). Thats why the risk of getting it is influenced by high prevalence rate of heroin addicts and through unprotected sex (not using condom). USA is said to be one of the country with high condom use, and minimal use of heroin.
   
   I dont see any negative reason for allowing people who have AIDS to enter any country. Instead they should concentrate on educating the young and people about the consequences of their behavior (multiple sex partner, commercial sex, unbprotected sex). then probably the problem of the rise in HIV_AIDS case will be minimized. It is the behavioral pattern that triggers the rise of cases.

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   livelongerposted 13 years ago

   It's an odd paranoia that suggests people with HIV are going to deliberately infect other people, and that should be used as justification to keep people out. HIV is not something you get from someone sneezing; it's actually difficult to transmit.
   
   This is not about quarantining, which was done for highly-communicable diseases but had an "out" after a few months. This is about denying people entry or any sort of permanent legal status.
   
   There are quite a few people kept in legal status limbo and that have no other refuge except the US that will be able to enjoy a normal life now.

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   Madame Xposted 13 years ago

   Glad I'm married

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      tksenseiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      A very great many women in Africa who contact the disease are married.

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         Madame Xposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         So? That has to do with me how?

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            tksenseiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Just sayin' being married is no barrier to infection. This is a huge crisis in several African nations. That probably doesn't apply to you, just pointing it out.

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               Madame Xposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               No, it isn't a barrier to infection but if the govt is going ahead with this idiocy I do feel relief at not being in the dating game and am sorry for those who are.

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   lostgirlscatposted 13 years ago

   Polygamy? Why should we care about what consenting adults choose to do?

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      tksenseiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Because in addition to being illegal in the US, polygamy is rarely restricted to "what consenting adults choose to do".

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         Mishaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         And you know this how?

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            tksenseiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Have you not been paying attention? Have you not noticed what is uncovered in every polygamist sect that comes to light? Have you not noticed the practices in countries that permit polygamy?

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               Mishaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               I guess not. To all three

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               egivposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Hmm, lot of assumptions flying around here... oh America, the land of the free! (Except when tksensei knows better)

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                  tksenseiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  My, how 'progressive.' I guess underaged victims don't matter when you've got a political point to score...

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    earnestshubposted 13 years ago

    The previous policy was wrong and made America look stupid.

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       tksenseiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Made America look stupid to whom?

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          Bibowenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Why are we talking "appearances" when this is an matter about public safety? When it comes to the safety of my country, and especially that of my family and friends I really don't care how it "looks" to anyone.

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             livelongerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             How are your family and friends endangered by HIV+ people?

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                Bibowenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                My earlier comments were in the context that "appearances" pertaining to US health policy on HIV carriers seeking US entry are irrelevant. Who cares what the policy "appears" to be when we are talking about public health?
                
                Public officials have to make judgments about what is best for the public health. Any one carrying a virus or disease that is communicable is a health risk. It is the task of public officials to reduce that risk.
                
                Furthermore, I stated my country, family, and friends. Perhaps directly, it might not be a great risk. But then again, it might.  However, I expect public officials to do right by the American people; Obama hasn't done that. His decisions are predictably political, often the enemy of sound policy.

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             tksenseiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             You got the point.

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    kirstenblogposted 13 years ago

    Have you guys seen the story that there has been encouraging steps towards an HIV vaccine? It was on the news about a month ago here (maybe less then that)

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       prettydarkhorseposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Yes seen that news too. It will surely help many people in Africa to reduce mortality due to HIV_AIDS>

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    prettydarkhorseposted 13 years ago

    My take on this issue is that limiting the entry of people with HIV_AIDS doesnt solve the problem of transmission of AIDS. Transmission is a factor of behavior. HIV_AIDS can be transmitted sexually and through contaminated syringe. That being said, using a condom and reducing people who are heroin addicts can greatly reduced the prevalence of HIV-AIDS cases.
    
    People who are into commercial sex, multiple sex partners and those engaging into unprotected sex (not using condoms) are into high risk of having this ddisease.
    
    The best way to stop the spread is to encourage people to use condoms when engaging in these risky behaviors.
    
    So if the disease is spreading because of behavioral patterns, the solution is to curb the behavior. everybody should use condom to be protected and if youre a woman, dont have sex with a partner (specailly casual sex etc) if they dont wear a condom.

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    GeneralHowitzerposted 13 years ago

    Sorry for veering away from the topic Tim...
    
    Hi prettydarkhorse how was your day...

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       prettydarkhorseposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Good day to you general, i like your new avatar!

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          GeneralHowitzerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          I hope it was real though cause I want to point it to my adversary hehehe...

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             prettydarkhorseposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             LOLOLO

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                GeneralHowitzerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                just kidding aside hehehe, i got many problems recently hehehe, hayz I hvant finished yet with the grades of students sigh... Im afraid we're hijackin this thread sorry Tim..

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                   prettydarkhorseposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                   its ok, nobody is in here anyway!!professor ur a busy man, relax it is halloween there, all souls and saints day, miss that

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    Len Cannonposted 13 years ago

    I don't think people with highly contagious diseases should be permitted into the United States.  However, HIV is not highly contagious even amongst the best of circumstances.  The United States is very far down in the list of AIDS prevalence in the world, and it only remains at around the rate it has because of our superior ability to treat the diseases as compared to other countries and the high population of at-risk individuals.
    
    The reason the HIV virus was used to prevent immigration in the first placed was do to the stigmatizing of it.  Both the medical community and the citizens of the United States have a much better understanding of how AIDS progresses and works now.  The fear and disgust that were unfairly heaped upon victims in the eighties and early nineties.
    
    The United States will not suffer any more than it has by allowing otherwise competent and decent people.  As it stands, HIV patients can still enter the country by petitioning Homeland Security so the mechanics have already been in place and used.
    
    It would take a significant proportion of the immigrant community to enter the United States infected to even put a dent on a tenth of the percentage of the US with HIV/AIDS.  We've had two decades of very specific training on how to deal with the AIDS virus.  Don't have unprotected sex, don't needle share, see a doctor if you have blood to blood contact with anyone, ever.
    
    Like I said earlier, AIDS is a serious disease that shouldn't be ignored.  It is even possible to almost completely prevent yourself from becoming infected if you visit a doctor and receive proper medication within a few days of being exposed to the disease. This too, is expensive but certainly less expensive than a lifetime of retrovirals.
    
    Worry less about how "gross" HIV patients are and teach your friends and family about proper care and prevention of HIV.  Immigrants with HIV won't hurt you even in the worst case scenario if you know how to take care of yourself.

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    pageantgirl31413posted 13 years ago

    I really don't have an opinion about whether they should be allowed or not. People are people. However, wouldn't inviting more people with the disease help it spread faster? Yeah, you could wear protection but ask any sexually active person if they like protection and most would probably say they don't. Most just use birth control. The other problem is some don't know that they have a STD or others wouldn't say they have HIV because they know that the other would say no.

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