If the various race anti-discrimination laws were to go how much racism do you think would prevail in America? Is America's tolerance, acceptance and even embrace of diversity a superficial and shallow thing that must be legislated to maintain?
Ron Paul is for getting rid of these laws and it is pretty damn controversial. I keep trying to imagine what would happen in America if he got this way and frankly I just don't know. Maybe America is still a deeply scared and racist country and would devolve into a pre-civil rights version of itself if not for the laws around racism. But maybe America isn't quite as bad as that when given the freedom to find out? Maybe anyone who chooses to be racist would find themselves VERY VERY unpopular with the masses. Maybe social pressure would eliminate the residual racism in the country since people would be allowed to be honest in their views instead of being legislated into having tolerant views and thus could be seen for what they really are? I just don't know and would love to see if anyone has a view that would shed a little light on just how much racism there really is in the hearts of Americans...
" Maybe America is still a deeply scared and racist country and would devolve into a pre-civil rights version of itself if not for the laws around racism."
I believe this is a wrong interpretation of american history. White people were NOT being racist because they did not "integrate" prior to 1964. Blacks received a Congressional gift in the civil rights laws ( a gift no other people in human history every received from another people). It was a gift - by white Christian males - to try to help them improve their lives economically. Blacks , from 1865 to 1964 were suppose to a a separate and self reliant people. Many , maybe most, white people believed integration would only make blacks completely dependent on white people. White people wanted - in the South demanded - blacks develop their own living arrangements. Civil rights laws, as Ron Paul correctly believes, coming from the federal gov't are in violation of the US Constitution. 45 years is QUITE ENOUGH of this madness...
As for racism where violence is present, 9 out of 10 of these acts come from blacks, and their victims are white (580,000 victims in 2004). I've researched black racism and hateful violence extensively, and I hv to say, I don't know why white people are still in this forced integration system. Nothing wrong with one people living separate from another people. Human history - up till 1964 - dictates it;s the norm. 45 years is ENOUGH of this anomaly.
BTW, civil rights laws hv done nothing but allow the DEMS to carve america up into groups ( specifically blacks, women, gays, disabled, etc.) and pit them against white Christian males. Societies are intended to hv a structure based on natural law. Civil rights laws are intended to disrupt the normal and natural order of a society.
You did it now, you woke up our resident racist
Isn't that under the rules of this forum a personal attack?
yes, and I reported her. She's done it quite a number of times.
Who was she referring to? A personal attack is when someone accuses someone of something false, isn't it?
So they take it personally when someone makes a known true statement about them?
Its just a personal attack. Sorry you disagree.
The word "racism" is calculated to make me SUBMIT. I won't do that. The structure of a human society - IMO - is like a mathematical equation, no different than 2x2=4. Civil rights laws are designed to change the structure of a society --by legislative fiat. It's like changing 2x2=4 to 2x3 = 4...and the beneficiaries of this "change" want people to SUBMIT to the new equation. I did submit in the past. I won't any longer. Failures abound in this new -45 year-old - system. Threats of "racism, " "sexism, " "homophobia," ect... prevent the failures from being exposed. DEMS are the beneficiaries - carving out groups and pitting them against white Christians - and they're going to fight like mad to keep this thing going.
I've been called racist because I disagree with Barack Obama, I've been called racist because I have fired Black and Hispanic employees. Its just a word used to incite a fear reaction, it doesn't work on me because I simply don't give a shit what those people had to say.
I have learned the correct way to respond to the racism charge, is to to make them be specific i.e. cite a specific example(s). I have NEVER had a single person come back with a response to justify their - cowardly- accusation. All I get is :
"I was writing you out a response, however, I just decided you're not worth it. good buy" ...or something similar
Perhaps that's because you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink .People don't like to waste valuable energy on a lost cause. And, no, I shouldn't be baking some cookies somewhere...You're not sexist either.
Too bad you missed your chance to help prevent integration back then! I'm sure with your great depth of compassion and your experience with Afro-Americans--bet you hate that designation--you could have prevented them from being treated more equally, or at least better.
"carving out groups and pitting them against white Christians"
Yes, we hate white christians! My dad was a white christian when he died. At least he said he was, and my mom still claims to be too. I do not hate either of them nor the many others living around here. To say I hate white christians because I favor liberal views over those of the right could be considered a personal attack. Or is it just that when liberals do it?
LoL. The term Christian also requires you to submit. You gonna go against that one?
As much as I hate to say it, my own country frightens me. I don't trust our government, as there is always something being covered up. I don't care if I end up on some CIA watchdog list because I'm not of any danger to anyone. I think everyone just needs to mellow out and get along. We could all learn so much from each other and the huge varieties of all our cultures here, right?
When I lived in LA on Venice Beach, I loved going to the weekly drum circles at sunset on Sundays. Every culture that you can associate with rhythm, dancing, and drumming, got together and played whatever they had for a percussive instrument, and danced into the evening. It really brought a lot of cultures together, and it was a beautiful thing to see. Quite the contrast to ugly politics!
What a great topic for discussion!
I think that Americans have come a long way in that department, but just because our president is black, doesn't mean we've arrived. I actually believe that if all of these laws were to be removed, we would see the true ugliness that has been festering under the surface for some time, although that wouldn't be the majority. But while there are a lot of people who are more progressive in their thinking, the one's who are just pretending do so to avoid trouble with the law and to avoid seeming distasteful to society, they dwell on their secret hatred and unfounded judgements and delusions of superiority. Sometimes they join those white supremacist groups that are still in existence, or any group that hates whatever race (so that you understand that I'm insinuating that the only racist people in this country are white because that isn't so). But I think you put it well when you mentioned that if the laws were removed, that people would be more open about their views, and maybe that could lead to a genuine change in mindset.
There is a reason that laws had to be put into place. The ugliness that existed in America is sometimes unthinkable to the generations that live now, who couldn't imagine someone being hanged for being an "insolent nigger" and that families would come out to lynchings as if they were celebratory events, taking "family photos" with a black man in the background who's been tarred, feathered, and hanged. Where a black boy didn't dare crush on a white girl, because he might be found dead somewhere that day or the next. Or when white girls would sometimes falsely accuse black boys of rape because they didn't want to admit to their society that they liked "niggers," and the guy wouldn't get anywhere near a fair trial if he wasn't shot dead. They don't think about how Japanese Americans were thrown into internment camps solely because they were of Japanese descent but mostly American born, and so considered a threat in a time of war. Families pulled out of their homes and situations were just as American as anyone else, but treated like animals. Native Americans almost being wiped out entirely.
Over the years, many people have based their opinions of how to handle race according to how the laws have swayed society. And so those people who have grown up with more tolerant views would stay fairly tolerant. But those who grow up in the places where I know racism to be thriving, from mere ignorance more than anything else, it would not be so good for minorities in those areas. They may not be lynched, but they would not have the same opportunities as their white counterparts, and that's for certain. And the KKK, who are still very much in existence, by the way, would have a field day, and get back into their more violent deeds, like killing little black girls in churches.
Many people need laws to govern them in order to create equal opportunities, and sometimes a safe environment for other people. So even though they do need to deal with it on a personal level, sometimes real damage is done before they make that change (assuming they ever will), so the people who will be hurt by it have to be protected.
I am not American. That said, for me, you cannot try to claim that your own president (I do not care if you do/not vote, are Rep or Dem) was not born in the US, but in some shanty town in Kenya, without being racist to a certain degree.
Here (Australia) Obama could have been born in Kenya and still become our Prime Minister.
Edit... Our current PM was born in Wales
As I was taught in school, the provision that the president has to have been born in America was intended to make sure that royals or other dictators from other countries had no way to taking over from within. I don't have a problem with this but Obama has a birth certificate, was born in Hawaii. To see someone like Palin saying 'well sure he has a birth certificate but blah blah blah *evil Kenyan conspiracy theory here* says to me, racist.
I feel sorry for Obama. He just doesn't seem capable of standing up to the republicans and is trying so hard to work with them when they have NO INTENTION of working with him and frankly would happily destroy the country itself in order that they destroy him as well, is foolish. I have yet to see him put his foot down with the republicans and every compromise he has made seems to be a fault. No matter what he does it will be wrong unless he stands up for himself and puts his foot down. This is a mandatory quality for a pres. and I think Obama is too nice to do it. This is all of course my opinion from what I can see this side of the pond (ex-pat living in the UK).
The whole birth certificate thing was completely racist, and I say this with full knowledge that it might offend everyone who was on the birther bandwagon. Good. Screw them.
A White candidate who was born outside the continental US would never have had to deal with that kind of shrill, hysterical, xenophobic crap.
How do I know? Because John McCain was born outside of the continental US (at a military hospital in Panama? I don't remember exactly.). Some folks said, "Hey, McCain doesn't fulfill the requirements to be president if he wasn't born in the US! He can't be a candidate!" and then the McCain campaign explained that yes, he still counts as a natural-born US citizen, since he was born to US citizens on a US base, or whatever the reason was. And the people who objected to McCain on those grounds did something amazing: they said, "Oh. Okay, then. Our mistake."
What's the difference between these two natural-born US citizens?
Obama's dad was black.
The birther movement was a racist movement.
I thought Obama was born in Hawaii, if I'm not mistaken!
When a President deliberately had pieces of his history hidden, when his life is not an open book in front of a public that HE is supposed to represent as their servant, when he openly stated that he considers America an "experiment", when he openly vowed to change its foundation, when he insults Christians and other conservatives, when he lies and refuses to answer to the citizens who pay his salary, when he mocks those who disagree with him and bullies Congress and any other citizens that he can, when numerous public items indicate that he may NOT have even been born here, then.......yes, we can validly question not only his actions and words now, but his origin of birth. That's not racism at all. It's exercising the right of every American citizen to examine who and what and from where and the intentions of any Candidate proceed, just as we have the right to vet any public Official in our Country.
The horse left the barn in 2008. Believe me, if there was any way of throwing Obama out on a technicality, Bill and Hill Clinton would have done it. If there was anything to disqualify him from running, it would have been found out before the primaries.
I suppose it is the right of every American citizen to "vet" every public official in our country.
It's called voting.
And a majority of the American people -- by any way you count (popular vote, Electoral College votes)
vetted President Obama in 2008 and again in 2012.
As to the claims that Obama bullies the Congress -- there's a psychology term for that. It's called "projection."
No, it's called watching him do it. On public tv. No, not on Fox News. On public tv. Or do you never watch the News?
And vetting isn't voting. Or do you never consider correct definitions either?
Very well stated Brenda.
As for racism in America , here's something I didn't find shocking::
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_ … _hispanics
Yep, it's pretty common knowledge by now. I think it's interesting and good that people are now taking note of the fact that "affirmative action" like in college admissions and etc., has become a vehicle for reverse discrimination against white people.
You always pop up like a bad penny when racism is the topic don't you?
Brenda has a faculty for identifying the real race problem in America--discrimination against whites. That's why income of blacks is much lower and unemployment and poverty is much higher.
I was actually talking about the person she was agreeing with
Actually, no he didn't.
If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's probably a duck....
Are there racists in America? Yes.
There are racists in every country and every ethnicity.
Is America a racist nation.... NO
Would we descend into a racist bastion. No.
And the only ones who have acted in a racist way over Obama... are those that say it is all racism. As they are so racist that they believe all others are like them, and therefore they could not have a valid objection to the man.
And Obama has done absolutely NOTHING to work with republicans... NOTHIING!
He has forced what he can down our throats and then when we gain the ability to block the BS from being forced down our throats... he cries we won't work wioth him.
Too bad... NO COMPROMISE!
We will eject him... and then dismantle his marxist policies.
I'm not sure how you can justify that statement.
I know a man from Chicago who emigrated to Sydney. He was amazed at how little racial prejudice there was here compared to his home town. I'm amazed at the way America runs separate pop charts, television stations etc for different ethnic groups.
i don't think it would be good to get rid of any antidiscrimination laws that are in place in any country - they normally cover a breadth of issues - employment, gender, etc. etc. Of course some folks, employers as an example, try to work around those laws when it benefits them. With those laws in place, employers think twice about how they hire/fire and/or terms of employment. Without them, some employers would do whatever they like without it costing them a dime or their reputation. Women's rights also need to continue to be protected - i feel without these laws in place, some of those rights could take a step backwards and not forward.
...just my thoughts this a.m.
Down here many refer to the president as "that ni**er". So no, there is no racism problem.
I wonder what kind of names blacks had for President Bush down there.... Care to list some of them?
I've never heard them call him anything, but feel free to enlighten me!
I think we'll need a black person to come in here and reveal those pejorative names. Wouldn't think it would be something said in "mixed" company. Of course I'm assuming you're not black....
And there's no doubt what color you are. Where are you from, by the way?
Black guy here or whatever you want to call me. I called President Bush "Commander in Chief" just as I did the non black presidents before him I served under. And before that it was just simply "President". I love the way you try to rope "us" into that name calling group.
Up here the blacks refer to the president as, my ni***r.
I would personally have to say yes, a number of people would revert back to the days when being of a particular race indicated superiority. Granted significant improvements have been made since the civil rights struggles. The issue of racism possibly will not show it self Until an issue of need, a shortage of services presents itself that's when we show ourselves for who we really are. Your question reminds me of a twilight zone episode where one family built a fallout shelter and this family's good friends torn the door down to get inside his fallout shelter. In the past there were people who I believe felt they were not racists until circumstances came knocking at their door "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner." Racism is not dead in America it is simply like a barracuda just waiting.
"Granted significant improvements have been made since the civil rights struggles."
Easy to say.. Care to elaborate? However, if you are referring to white people following the letter of the law and integrating, I would agree there. How many more Eddie Jack Jordan, Jr. are lurking out there?
Sorry I don't know this Eddie Jack Jordan, Jr of which you speak.
What are you trying to ask when you're say "elaborate?" Are you talking about all the years people has to march to gain Civil Rights. Are you asking about all the court cases to try and get civil rights or are you talking about minorities not having the sames rights as others who were allowed to vote and they were not?
"gain Civil Rights. "
i.e.integration rights... They were not Constitutional rights. ONE people agreed to them (white Christian males). Forced integration is a societal anomaly. And, yes, blacks did "gain" integration rights. So did woman and all other racial and ethnic groups. I am reminded, however, of an ancient Chinese sage who wisely observed a truism that remains to this day , "too many people in boat, boat sink" America is sinking...
Your perception of right and wrong seem distorted to me. If someone is on time and they're kicking you then they're doing you a favor by not kicking you-this sounds real distorted.
I take it you are of the belief that White is always right?
"I take you are of the believe that White is always right?"
Not even close.
What a lame backward remark to throw at someone.
If this is for me then how is lame and backwards?
I am sorry.
I thought you said that, "white is always right", remark.
SLere. said it, and it is a backward and ignorant remark.
Color doesn't equate to right or wrong, actions, words, and beliefs, do.
"SLere. said it, and it is a backward and ignorant remark."
I refuted it sir. read again... BTW, awaiting your FIRST hub. When ?
my gene pool is quite mixed. Country of origin? irrelevant.
I'm sorry you are afraid to identify your place of residence. Why is that?
currently? USA. Specifically, West coast. My house overlooks the beautiful pacific ocean. I enjoy fishing, skiing, gourmet foods, nice cars. I also am fortunate as to not hv to work for a living. I have plenty of free time... to delve into anything I so desire. I'm enjoying life to the fullest. Anything else you'd like to know?
No apology needed we all have I point of view and I did ask that very question and right and wrong should not be based on race but I'm sorry we have at times lots of time made it so-The KKK clearly focuses on that very point as does the Black Panther Party.
All blacks are smelly.
Can I have some attention now?
Although I have a wonderful life - cars, beach and all that, I need people to take notice of me on an internet thread.
I do this by posting ever more ridiculous and inflammatory statements.
Gays should poke their own bottoms.
Liberals can't cook sausages.
Mum doesn't know I'm using her computer.
Mark Ewbie:: "I do this by posting ever more ridiculous and inflammatory statements."
Me?/ Okay you got my attention. Now Mark, kindly tell me just what "ridiculous" and "inflammatory" thing(s) you refer to? My interpretation of american history - I believe - is precisely accurate. Correct me where you think I am wrong.
I started to type out a reasonable argument and then thought "why am I engaging with someone who I would not give the time of day to?"
It's a truly unfortunate truth that racism still exists throughout the world. Not just in the USA.
Racism doesn't really exist. If Blue eyes can hate brown eyes, then all it is is our instinctive fear of a perceived difference in someone else. On Easter Island, it was a war between the long ears and the short ears. I'm sure that pygmies didn't care for watusi.
Racism is mostly a lower class thing. I might be low but you are lower than me. However there is sort of a reverse racism with the middle class, who are racist in trying not to be racist.
Of course WE in the 'Upper' Class provide Jobs for those Blue and Purple Workers Don't You Know?
There Is No Racism in the Fifa Football Family... Why would ANYONE believe that it exists anywhere else?
Ask the Sydney Aborigines who are reduced to sleeping in the Flower Pots Lining the entrance to Sydney's Kings Cross... if they believe racism exists!
I think a repeat or near-identical version of what happened to the Jews in Europe would occur. Maybe that's extreme but the potential is there since blame of somebody's problem would lay on somebody else. Why not the ones who are in lesser numbers?
I'm sure the fundies will return after Tebow gets through getting his asp stomped by the Patriots. All that praying for nothing, I suppose it just wasn't god's will this time.
"Should Republicans just focus on white voters???
"For two decades, from 1972 to 1992, the Democratic Party agonized over its loss of support among whites, especially those in the working class. Over the next two decades, from the election of Bill Clinton in 1992 to the re-election of Barack Obama in 2012, the party slowly came to terms with its loss and learned how to win the presidency with a minority of white voters.
"Now the white vote has become a Republican problem. White voters cast 72 percent of all votes in the Obama-Romney election of 2012 compared to 87 percent in the Nixon-McGovern contest in 1972. Should the Republican Party accept the fact that the white majority in the United States is getting smaller or should it bet on boosting Republican margins and turnout rates among whites to record levels?..." MORE HERE:
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/20 … voters/?hp
How racist is America? Really?
Less racist than most every other country on earth!
There is no question America has progressed from the dark days of white racial superiority. For many people they have pulled back the curtain of ignorance and their those Americans who can honestly embrace others of different color, ethnicity and faith. America does Lynn hope that we truly can become a United nation.
Hope however is not the present reality just look around and see how hateful people really are of the first Black American president. Now I not saying people are wrong to dislike him but it appears as though their dislike of him goes beyond even mutual respect.
The division between the haves and the have-nots is great and continues to get greater. I found a video called Park Avenue and this video focuses the lifestyle of the wealthy. I found it interesting that according to the video at some point there were approximately 400 wealthy people who had as much money as all the southern states in America. The doorman would say or at least some of them which say that around Christmas time some would get 1000 dollars however others would say from the super rich they got 50 dollars. My point being if we can tolerate this kind of division of greed how can equality play out for other people in the country?
We talk about being equal in the middle of a situation where a young black teenager has been murdered and without knowing anything about this teenager strangers began to vilify someone they don't even know openly, and blatantly. The seeds of racism is still here and just simply waiting for the right moment to once again reveal themselves.
SpanStar:; "There is no question America has progressed from the dark days of white racial superiority."
Dark Ages? LOL
Name me ONE people in all of human history who granted integration rights (white socialists refer to it as civil rights) to another people. Never happened. White Christian males created compulsory integration in 1964. They didn't have to do it. There was no Constitutional rights being denied blacks because white people desired to live separately. One distinct people living separate from another distinct people was the established norm throughout HUMAN HISTORY. Blacks were granted their complete freedom in 1865. They were suppose to be a separate and self-reliant people, and create their own distinct culture -- their own towns, cities, industries, tax base, political titles. They chose integration--the only people in human history to do such a thing -- and, oddly, into the very group they called (and many still do today) their oppressor.
A white male in 1967 (LBJ) also gifted blacks 'affirmative action' status (double standards, preferential treatment, contract set-asides). Two white males (Nixon & Carter) then gifted blacks racial quotas in the workplace. White people have also tolerated an explosion of black violence against their people (rapes, robberies, murders, public abductions, home invasion, and now the infamous 'knock down' game).
Having read S Leretseh comments it is a clear indication that racism has not left this country.
When one is privileged it is hard for them to see those who are not privileged and it seems to be harder for them to even recognize they are privileged.
I would not be surprised if he doesn't know that one of his own people dressed up and pretended to be an African-American this person wrote a book titled "Black like Me." The bottom line is he had projected how long he could play this role but because of his experience with his own people he cut that deadline short.
And the fact that everything black society supposedly had separately (schooling, housing, jobs) and equally was extremely substandard and they were expected to like it.
Be careful, I commented once implying but not outright calling him a racist and was banned for 3 days.
I wonder how many of today's Hubbers could pass the literacy test (in the allotted time of ten minutes) that African-Americans were required to take in Louisiana during the 60's.
http://www.buzzfeed.com/briangalindo/co … ters-in-th
This wasn't a very subtle tactic compared to today's stealthy games of voter suppression, but the intent is still very much around as is evidenced by the many deniers here and throughout our polarized country.
You are indeed correct. Clearly race is an uncomfortable issue to talk about but it seems to me that if we don't do the things that give people rise to talk about them then there would be no reason to talk about it.
@bp (socialist? correct?)
Literacy tests were deemed Constitutional by the US Supreme Court (1959). The 1965 Voting Rights Act eliminated it. In other words, where literacy tests existed prior to 1965, they were legal. Blacks had the SAME rights as white people did in building their own political environments (towns, cities, or colonize a place in America).
Compulsory Integration was created - the 1st in human history - in 1964. White Christian people hve followed the laws! i.e. they hv integrated their working environments, their political environments and their residential communities. Would blacks hv granted these rights to white people if the situation was reversed?
Oh, bp, for your very FIRST hub (in 9 months?) I hv a suggestion. Since your so concerned about political rights, how about you do an expose on the political racism going on in Compton, CA.
33% of one people (African Americans) control 100% of the political seats in the city, as well as more than 80% of the cities patronage jobs go to them. They also hv the congressional seat and the state assembly seat. Hispanics, who are the other 67%, hv been complaining about this situation for over 10 years now.
S Leretseh - You seem to jump to stereotypes and labels pretty quickly and
you to leap to unreasonably extreme interpretations of my somewhat modest point of view. I must confess however, that I wonder why you are so quick to judge and castigate.
I see myself as just another American with a personal opinion who realizes he could be wrong about things, but, hopefully, someone who tries to be fair-minded and tolerant of others' beliefs and dignity. I don't view myself as a socialist—I'm idealistic and want to view all people with equanimity and respect.
If that makes me a "socialist" in your eyes, with an intent to degrade my personhood or point of view—and it gives you some comfort—then, fine, I can accept that.
"stereotypes and labels", "castigate", degrade your "personhood"....
Bp, you got all that from my post? You, sir, hv one very lively imagination.
You made a comment about literacy tests which was short on specifics. I added some facts. As for your very first hub, well, you seem to hv a passionate interest for political rights. Hispanics in Compton are clearly being denied - by African Americans- political representation. If you do decide to do an expose on Compton, let me know when it's done and I'll pop over and read it.
Regarding "socialist", it was just a question. Why would you see it as an attack on your manhood? I've found most socialist to be forthright and proud about admitting to their ideology.
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an African American president made it worse or better in your opinion?
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