Many already know that the killer survived from his act of massive terrorism; however I do not know if many understand that we the tax payers are also footing the bill for his recovery!
Because he too was active military he will recieave the same benifits as any other soldier!
Our Goverment is currently working on a health care reform that will revamp our current health care!
I am wondering if the Goverment has ever thought about modifying these policies in our military!
As a tax payer what is your thoughts on our Tax Dollars being spent on saving a life that killed and injured many fellow soldiers?
Should our goverment have this much compassion for a person that acted on such a heinoush and violent hate crime?
He should get his day in court as anyone else should. If found guilty......well let's save that for another discussion.
If he's found Guilty ????? He Is Guilty !!!! He slaughtered our Men and Women,...He need's to DIE !!!! and not on my dime. My son is Army Infantry Fort Hood,..He was just a few building away from the shooter,...This hit home to a lot of us. Obama needs to step down and hand the reins over to someone whos got some dam backbone and set the World straight, That we,..Americans do not have mercy on anyone who tries to harm or kill our Troops !!!!
Well, until yesterday he was one of your troops...
You can't ask the dead questions like "why did you do it?"
The answer to that question and many others are worth the expense.
Our tax money also paid for Gitmo. Besides, you have to figure they wanted to take this guy alive, right?
They should just shoot him in the head. A bullet is much less expensive than treating him, interrogating him, imprisoning him, and then executing him anyway.
In fact, the government could save tons 'o cash by shooting people in the head. They could shoot everyone over 65 years old to balance the social security budget. They could shoot one out of every 6 licensed drivers to avoid the expense of building new roads.
Bullets - any problem they can't solve?
Not to mention Spammers and those conceived by alien means
lolololol. Yes. I really cannot believe they walk among us and even have the ability to file their taxes.
One--the gunpowder shortage. (Well, the way things seem to be going, there will be.)
As a kiwi, it amazes me how much is spent in the US on the military and on mental health issues.
This guy clearly has a mental health issue and was commissioned within the military as a Pyschiatrist with the ability to assess the personnel at Fort Hood on mental health issues!
Was he commissioned to that post as a result of the 75 Suicides that have occurred at that base since 2002?
Apparently he is also known to be deeply devout within his religious beliefs. Doubtless his defence will be one based on his religious beliefs!
Have you considered this point?
This point will be a sticky issue in this overly PC climate will live in.
You are very right often time the US wasts more money on agendas that seems to be not a prioty more of a future political platform for politicians!
God Bless the families of the fallen victims and may God Bless America during this tragedy.
The guy was a muslim terrorist. Trying to excuse him as having a mental health issue just takes the focus away from the real problem. There are muslims in American society who will carry out jihadist aims. What can we do about them?
Yeah we should just let him die, because keeping him alive so we can find out if he's acting alone or is just the beginning of something more, is ridiculous and just plain stupid, better yet we should ask for volunteers to foot his bill, because considering the billions we just spent to hunt down Saddam and Bin Laden, never mind bail out the three financial institutions that have sacked our economy, this is just excessive spending. Why focus on the heart of the issue at all, he's just an AMERICAN who opened fire on his comrades in outrage over continuing an unpopular and hugely expensive wars that are costing billions a month. If this had been a pissed off teenager at school we'd all be sad and wondering what drove them too it, but no, he's a Muslim get the ropes boys.
Hey there ya go, everyone is happy WIN, WIN!!!
One Question though, if he'd been white and Christian what would we be saying then. I only ask because its happened before, twice while I was in country and the shooter was a white, christian, American. Except as I remember at the time no one back home really seemed to care that he killed 10 of his fellow soldiers and wounded 19 before we were able to tackle him when his rifle misfired.
I don't care if he was Christian,Hindu,Buddhist,atheist just shoot the POS! Is that clear enough?
That is a good offer but I think if I were going to stand in the shadows and exercise little real power I'd find a better paying job with more authority like a bus driver or something. I am flattered though.
He didn't consider himself American. At his mosque, he considered himself Palestinian according to the profile he filled out at his Silver Springs mosque.
That's true, but the terrorist in Gitmo surely don't consider themselves American either but are still due the due process of Law. That's the problem with preaching democracy, freedom, and truth either it applies to everyone or you're just an empty idea spreading words you don't believe in. Either we live by our words or we are just another terrorist group with better guns and more money. That's what you are not understanding, when acts of terrorism reduce us to bloodthirsty lynch-mobs fueled by anger and retribution then we have lost the war and what makes us American and right.
What bloodthirsty mob? The muslim terrorist is in the hospital resting and in recovery. Tex was expressing his anger? Why are you uncomfortable with that emotion?
I am expressing that when we allow emotion to cloud our judgment and determine responses we forget the point and what we stand for. Why are you so uncomfortable with a voice advocating calm and clear thinking in the midst of a crisis and threat to national security?
Scott you were the one who came on here accusing people of being bloodthirsty. Nobody was saying that they should drag him from his bed and string him up the nearest tree. Prior to that we were just posting what we were all expressing as opinions. We can still have them.
I guess advocating shooting him in the head was my imagination then what was I thinking, expressing my own opinion too.
Ron was being sarcastic when he said that. He would be one of the last people advocating that behavior.
Yes i kinda picked up on that, funny though how you can't if it counters your belief or opinion. We judge others by their actions but ourselves by our intentions. I know they are being sarcastic at least I hope they are, kind of like statements about running for p[resident and stuff hmmm...
I have studied the law quite extensively and have never found anywhere in the law that citizens of another Country held in another Country are accorded any protection of "Due Process" would you like to show where that provision in the law is?
I feel your argument and agree however I am a student of military law and was on the ground when it was changed to allow the intelligence community a loophole to hold and detain enemy combatants seized in a declared warzone fighting for a declared enemy, in this case the Taliban. Those men in Gitmo are not just terrorist seized in Iraq, and Afghanistan it might surprise you to learn that over 50 inmates there are foreign nationals from European nations, and Australia who we caught over the previous 15 years and have held in suspicion of espionage. Until the law was changed holding them had been problematic at best, but now we are free to hold, detain and interrogate anyone regardless of the law or treaties, as long as we label them terrorist or enemy combatants. Imagine my surprise when i conversed with an English national who spoke perfect English, belonged to the church of England and displayed obvious military and martial training. Confused? I sure was, we certainly didn't pick him up in the middle east.
Officer Scott is back on duty. think like him or serve the consequences.
Hey sooner how are you, don't worry there's no heretics to burn at the stake here, or at least I don't think there are.
do I need to bring back your self glorified shooting experiences to pipe you down, or are you just arguing for arguments sake? again?
huh, why are there shootings again in FLORIDA< these activities really shift the focus towards that health reform bill.....
Yeah I was just reading about the Orlando shootings too. The real question I have is, if you're motive is I hate the world so I'm going to kill myself why do you need to take out 15 people before you do? What does that accomplish really?
Well if you're an islamic jihadist you get your 72 virgins.
That's going to suck the only virgins I know are 15 year old high school nerds. The Columbine kids weren't Islamic though though or the VT shooter. I don't understand how murdering 20 innocent people eased their pain or made anything better. Of course that's the point isn't it. They just don't care what happens. Islamic or Christian, murdering people right before you die is a ticket to Hell. In Islam those you kill can not be innocents, women or children, but combatants.
For the islamic jihadist it's a ticket to muslims paradise with muslim virgins.
I wonder how many of those Jihadist have actually read the Qu'ran. That was something I noticed in Afghanistan our unit interpreter would quote the Qu'ran all the time time to us, but once when I asked him where it said something in that book he said he didn't know the cleric told them what was said and teaches in the book. Arabic is not an easy language to learn, and most Muslims are not arabic. Point being most the Afghans have never read it just recited a few prayers and popular scriptures.
Yes, but it only needs an extremist Imam and a supportive Islamist community to sound the call and as you have experienced, ignorant but pious muslims will follow.
You're right and my point is though the same thing is happening all across the world in religions everywhere. Islam is not alone in the atrocities department, never have been, never will be.
Oh i didn't know that. What other religions are out there where the religious leader tells their followers to kill non-followers if they don't eventually convert?
Guess you've not kept track of the continuing wars in east Africa between Christians and Muslims, or in the Balkans, or in Russia, or in Lebanon, where supposed Christians are slaughtering Muslims everyday. Then there's the Crusades, and Inquisition of history past. Christians are certainly not walking the world with clean hands.
Scott, look deeper into all those areas and their histories.
I have that's why I know this round robin of finger pointing at religions is a sham for discrimination and racism. If you don't like a group of people just say it, don't try to hide it behind religion. None of the areas I mentioned were about religion but power, just as the Islamic extremist doesn't kill for religion but power. Osama isn't even a practicing Muslim, he wants power and a following. We gave him a taste in the Russian invasion of Afghanistan in the 80's and he's wanted more ever since.
I accept that religions can be used as a proxy for power. But it has nothing to do with racism because religions are beyond race. That whole race talk is liberal victimology. And yes it is about power but the power is used to maintain Islam and no other. But hey, I'm not here to change your mind and you're not going to change mine.
And by the way that guy shouted Allahu Akbar while spraying the place with bullets. That doesn't sound like a zen buddhist.
I love how everytime I speak about anything unpopular on the forums the first flag that is thrown is the liberal one. Life must be extremely limited when your choices are reduced to a few labels and boxes. Ask the liberals, and I'm too conservative, ask the conservatives and I'm a liberal, ask the believers I'm a heretic, the Atheists, a believer. Or how about just a person that takes into account all the angles then decides on his own instead of resorting to what I saw on the networks or read on a paper. Is America in trouble yes, why, because innovative thinking and independence are gone. Even the conservatives are a pack of sheep following the beck and call of a party that has failed to conserve anything but their own bank accounts and status. Yeah I know that's a Liberal Victomology coming from someone who always stresses the importance of owning up for your own life and problems. How is blaming something on a religious group, or political view any less? Well I don't blame the conservatives or liberals, or God, I blame myself for my own woes, how many conservatives are going to stand up and do the same?
Oh brother, if the liberal victimology thing bothers you, don't pay attention to it. But it doesn't negate the whole argument.
It kind of does when you say liberals are always trying to blame it on someone else, when the conservatives are blaming the liberals and Muslims, seems...I don't know, a little hypocritical. But I have to go someone just used the word titillating on the other thread, I have to go check it out. My simple mind is easily distracted by grammatical anomalies.
With my tail tucked like a Christian in Mecca (I can't believe he just went there..)
Christians have committed atrocities just like the others. The inhumanity of man to man does not reside only in Islam. And terrorism as a form of warfare has been used by many nations.
At this time we (humanity) would like to move beyond it. Bosnia, Rwanda, Vietnam, Beirut, Gulf War, all in my lifetime.
And whether we like it or not we look to America to guide us into that more enlightened and civilised international relations. Not supporting NWO here.
Perhaps something for the military experts here to look at is: How do we avoid wars in the first place? Can we prevent war? Can we prevent war without falling into the trap of the NWO?
I have said I hate a particular group of people and for that I was banned for 3 days, so apparently one cannot say what they like or dislike here.
Well I never said speech was free, that's those crazies in Washington talking about that fictitious Bill of Rights who talk that nonsense. If it was free I'd be able to say stuff like all you purple people can roast in the fires of Hades for your non-monochromatic ways. YYAAARRRRGGGHHH!!!!!!!!!!!
One of My job details is dealing with train crews who have hit people at railway crossings. about half of those incidents are suicide. Really not fair to the crew. Im my 30 years on the rail I killed over 16 people. I admire those who jump off bridges.
Yes of course! What should they do leave him on the ground in pain and bleeding? Should we watch as he dies and not expend any taxpayer money to remove the rotting corpse?
He's a soldier. Fortunately for him he didn't die in his ill fated attack on innocent hero's. He will be tried at further taxpayer expense and prisoned costing still more taxpayer dollars. That's our system and he deserves nothing more or nothing less.
Hi POPPA, hi everyone,,,,,
hmmm, why are there psychopatic in this world!!
I agree with scott. Because on paper, until Patriot Act, USA was the greatest democracy on earth, and the mecca for persecuted minorities the world over (despite the sins against its own minorities).
So the shooter must be interrogated. The intelligence community must get to him as soon as he is conscious.
God bless America.
I speak from my heart. Look, I'm not American and I have been using Statue of Liberty at sunset avatar for over a month.
Like in all acts of terror: OKC Bombing, 9-11, Columbine (sp?), Virginia Tech...or the daily murderers on TV...the person who did the act gets all the press and all the analysis...and the discussion of why they performed their particular act...and all the "blah, blah, blah" associated with the fact.
And the point of this is: Almost 24 hours have passed...and I now have read a pretty good detailed description about this guy...and learned a variety of his different "alleged" motives...and why the poor b_stard did what he did...and so on, and so forth...
But...have not learned of the victims...what motivated them to join the Army...How did they feel about that they were about to be deployed...What were their ambitions and dreams and beliefs and ideas...What info did we get out of their parents about their life...Who were these people who had a whole life ahead of them...till this a_ _ hole came along...etc. ?
It is pathetic...that our society will end up talking about this coward...who shot up alot of innocent people...for far longer...and spend more analytical thought proceeses...trying to figure out his thinking...then we will ever...know about the victims of this horrid act!
I have no patients for the people who try to twist this as something other than it is. It is an act of terrorism as the definition of terrorism defines it. If the islamic community doesn't take care of this garbage in their midsts they are also guilty by association. How many more acts do we have to suffer before we wake-up and get with the program. Do we have to suffer the loss of an elementary school full of innocent children? How about a stadium full fans at a sporting event?
When do we say enough is enough and go to the source of the problem? islam is no different than facism and should be eliminated unless they take care of the radical elements in their religion. If they don't then they were warned and liberals you really to sit down and shut-up. You're the reason this mess is a mess, is because of your inclusive BS!
Just to clarify are you saying that any group with radicals causing harm to others should be destroyed if they can't reign those extremist in?
Do they wear uniforms? Who would know best who are the terrorists? We can't keep giving them a pass. What would it take to have you change your position, a school, a hospital, another office building? Where's the line? To answer your question, yes, I would show them the same mercy we did the germans and japanese. We didn't worry about their innocent people because they didn't do anything to stop it.
What exactly is my position sneacko? I went to Afghanistan to fight terrorist not Islam. I went to Iraq to fight Saddam not Islam. I went there because of a little thing called 9/11. But I realized once I left my own comfortable living room that most of the world's Muslim followers are not extremest and follow the Qu'ran which preaches against killing and murdering innocents. I also learned that most Muslims are ashamed of Osama Bin Laden, and the Taliban, even the regime of Iran.
I realize like most sane people that every group has extremist that twist teaching and faith to promote hate and war. That every group has extremist who look to justify biased ignorance with scripture and titles, like believer, and religion. I also learned that the one screaming the loudest about conspiracies and making people pay is usually the extremist.
"Islam is no different than fascism"...
That doesn't add up.
Islam actually doesn't support dictatorial regimes and does not discriminate against others (as per the Q'uran) based on faith, skin color, national origin, language, or economic status. Fascism deals with the supremacy of a specific nation and national identity over all others, often rejecting individual rights and freedoms.
The islamic community has issues with it's "garbage" just as every other religious community does. Just as there are groups who identify themselves as muslims and pervert the faith to justify their own ends, there are groups who identify themselves as christian and utilize biblical scripture to justify their ungodly acts and points of view. Extremism is extremism, be it defined by religious zealotry, nationalistic fervor or secular treachery.
Now, calling for the "elimination" of an entire religious system (as you did above) could be considered extremist and radical as well. I'll probably regret asking this, but how would you propose this be done?
I cringe as I await your response.
This guy in Texas, didn't do it for Allah, he did it for himself, he was an anguished man, who hated his life felt out of control and out of options. He didn't want to go to Afghanistan and instead of thinking it through he chose suicide by cop. He knew the law was coming for him over his threatening statements and most likely given his military stature was facing imprisonment and court martial for it.
The reason these people kill themselves is they feel trapped and death is the way out. They're afraid of imprisonment and jail time that's why they try to kill themselves to avoid the punishment for doing what they know is wrong. IF they really believed what they were doing was right and just what would they have to fear from the courts and law? Why wouldn't they want to be alive to defend their actions and be lauded by their fellow believers?
Stadiums, and schoolhouses, what about federal buildings and colleges shootings many of the deadliest attacks on America have come from Americans just as this one did. Pointing a finger at Islam is like burning down your house then blaming the fire department for not putting it out. grow a backbone America and start owning up for how things are.
Exactly, it had as much to do with religion as Timothy McVeigh's crime had to do with religion.
You don't know why he did what he did. You are just repeating what you heard on TV. His blogs tell a different story. He stood up in that building and shouted "Allahu Akbar!" — "God is great!" in Arabic — before opening fire, according to Fort Hood base commander Lt. Gen. Robert Cone." Don't delude yourself. To the terrorist there is no difference between islam and radical islam. That is a distinction American's have chosen to either make themselves or accept from someone else.
Further like you said law enforcement was on to him. If you read the content he posted. He saw the suicide bombers not suicidal but hero's saving other muslim's lives by becoming a martyr. Then he did the same, killed others before they could kill his fellow muslim's. You can mince words all you want. What he did, by HIS definition was motivated by ISLAM, albeit his interpretation of it. For those killed or wounded, his interpretation is all that matters....
"And I would caution against jumping to conclusions" Barack Obama
Funny, he jumped to all kinds of conclusions in the Cop and professor thing, more hypocrisy from a hypocrite!
Actually assuming person, I haven't read any blogs or watched TV in two days. I'm going off of the base shrinks assessments of the man. I got a call from buddies on the base last night.
So all that rhetoric came from there? I doubt it.
What rhetoric, I expressed my opinion and observations. When you do it its the truth when someone else does its rhetoric? Is it hard to believe that people can come to a conclusion without submerging themselves in the media? Is that what you're saying?
No, thats not what I'm saying. You on the other hand came to conclusions with out assessing facts. You lumped him into the majority of Muslim people you have come in contact with, those peacefull muslim's. Those, who are ashamed of people like him.
Lets face it, Fort Hood is huge, you could have spoken to someone literally miles from the scene of the incident.
Further when you simply reduce his actions to "suicide by cop" you COMPLETELY ignore the fact that he is a MURDERER!
Most people that go suicide by cop do kill someone else first but don't have the courage to pull the trigger on themselves. You really think this guy went into this thinking that he probably wouldn't be killed? I haven't lumped him in with anyone but expressed an opinion about lumping all Muslims into one group. easy there killer don't have a coronary. Last question, were you there on the scene, if not then all your opinions are just...ready for it? Assumptions.
Besides, you have been there. So have I. Do you WANT to go back? Probably not. Neither do I. However I did what I promised. I kept my word. So did you. When he broke his word he broke RANKS. Making excuses for his actions just don't cut it with me. Besides, he's a shrink...staff corps..... he wasn't going anywhere near the front and you and I both know that. Do I think the Army made some mistakes here? You bet! Should his chain of command had some serious questions to answer...you bet! But none of that takes the spotlight of his actions.
First I'm not excusing any behavior, I've never said he shouldn't pay, in fact I started out saying he should and his crime should be investigated. I'm not saying what he did wasn't wrong. In fact I believe I've stated several times the whole point of his attempted death was to escape the penalties. What I am saying is had this been a white Christian boy massacring his fellow soldiers the attitude would be different and we wouldn't be calling it terrorism, but a tragic act of a troubled person. Funny how selective our labels are, like how you're interpreting my comments and excluding others.
Are there a lot of Christian terrorists? When we hear of a Muslim committing crimes such as this are we supposed to assume he was just some nut? This will prove out to be a case of a Muslim terrorist killing his enemy, it just will.
As I was saying before in several nations right now, Christian groups are the ones committing the atrocities and terrorism. Will you hear it on TV, no probably not because its in unpopular parts of the world, I didn't know about it until I had to go there and evacuate the embassies, but its still happening. However point is, I get it, some people don't like Muslims and want them exterminated, and find them at fault for Americas problems yeah yeah yeah! Can I go now?
didn't need to hear that on tv.....don't watch tv.
Then, if it weren't for that label...no one would have ever gone to Afghanistan or Iraq.....right.
Our point of disagreement was motive/label. I have made my points and supported them. You haven't IMO. However like you said on another string...you just like to start arguments to increase traffic.
I went to Afghanistan to find Osama the man who claimed responsibility for trying to murder fifty thousand Americans at once. This man in Texas, this American did this by himself. All you want to do is be able to seperate this man from the US. But said thing is, you can't HE WAS AN AMERICAN, just like Tim Mcveigh.
Bill Ayers...terrorist.....not all terrorist share the same ideology.
A man who has called all muslim's to join his ranks....
A man who was offered to us on a silver platter...
A man who was trained by our CIA to fight the USSR by proxy..
All this I agree....
it has nothing to do with religion,killings and violence are results of psychological problems,,,and it is present in all race
Hey on the bright-side, I just remembered, under Military law this guy will be charged for his medical bills, if he lives or ever sees the light of day again, but that's doubtful, so I second thought yeah we're all screwed. We're going to end up paying like 18% of a cent each.
That reminds me of I guy I once pulled over who said "I pay your salary" I gave him his 2cents back!
So the guy was faking it the whole time and got to Major just so he could do this one day?
This was not a religious crime in any way, like I said, he happened to be Muslim. Timothy McVeigh considered himself a Christian, but his crime had nothing to do with Christianity.
How do you know it wasn't a religious crime? Because you don't want it to be? What is your evidence that it is not?
Everything I have heard about it says that. It is YOU who wants it to be a religious crime.
McVeigh didn't bomb the building in the name of Christianity. That Hassan guy did spray gunfire in the name of Allah. Trying to make these two equal doesn't make sense.
The statement he uttered is a prayer meant to ask Allah for guidance and protection, it's like saying God protect me before going into battle. I did it all the time but i wasn't doing it for God. My aides and guides in Afghanistan always uttered the same thing before going on patrol or into enemy territory. I'm not saying he wasn't trying to be a martyr, but until he says otherwise there's no way to know.
Wow, you really like to dismiss the obvious.
The obvious is that this guy flipped out and killed 13 people and the only one that knows why is him, that's the obvious. Until they are able to investigate why and how then I'm not going to say for sure why he did it. I like to look at all the angles first that's what keeps me from condemning people just because they may disagree with me, because I don't know why they do or the motivations behind that belief. The obvious is until such time as this guy is interviewed all these posts witty and educated as they may be are just conjecture, but I can accept that.
You remind me of an old western story. A much feared and vicious gunman was on trial and 12 townspeople had given a not guilty verdict even though they had seen the gunman shoot the victim. When asked why they gave a not guilty verdict, they replied that they didn't actually see the bullets enter the body.
In all fairness to all of you, I have had quite a bit of experience hanging out with Lawyers and politicians, whose motto is there's no wrong or right, only opportunities.
That being said, let me affirm that this man, whoever he was, did something horrendous, and despicable. Whatever the motives, his actions constitute an act of treason as we are and have been for almost 18 years now at a declared state of war.
What baffles my mind is that this individual who was under suspicion from both the FBI and military authorities was out running around a military base; despite the implications for tactical security and mental state. Furthermore as anyone who has recently served at a state side base can attest, it is alot harder then you might think to get a weapon and ammo on base, let alone bring one onto the base. Yet here this person is, under suspicion for threatening statements, carrying two loaded weapons on an Army base. Even in Afghanistan and Iraq there were few times when not on duty that I was allowed to have live ammo, and I was in a combat infantry unit.
This act constitutes a serious breach of military security and protocol. this person was not an MP, or Combat MOS, but a medical officer with a questionable history and record. Where did he get the weapons and ammo, and how was he carrying both around a base filled with people trained to detect both? This man needs to be investigated and his crime examined. Death is a swift and merciful punishment for crimes like this, better to serve a lifetime in a concrete box.
I don't know what bases you have been on but its pretty damn easy to get firearms on a base, especially an officer
really are these Army bases or what? How long ago was this?
I'm a former Marine got out for the last time in 98. My brother who was an officer in the Navy had his weapons on many many bases.
I got out in 04' after the lockdowns and 9/11. My brother is a Navy Master of Arms in Yorktown and that whole area is locked down. the only ones carrying loaded weapons on base are the DOD cops and MA's
Don't know what to tell you, but it happens a lot
apparently...perhaps as usual with time things have grown lax again. I remember trying to get onto Ft Knox in December 2001, there was an idling M1 tank at the front gate complete with hummers and 50's all locked and loaded.
I had a pistol and permit locked in the trunk and got escorted to the Mp headquarters.
two hrs before they announced the name of the shooter. i said to my kids all i need is his last name if its hassan its a terrorist act . two hrs later the name was broadcast. jaws dropped in our living room . is that crazy or what
I think he snapped because he was afraid of going to war.if he would have went he would have been protected in the green zone are in a safe zone in afghanistan,counseling soldiers.some times the fear inside of people is worst than the actual reality of the situation.fear extreme fear makes people do things that they would not normally do.the bad thing about it is he was a major majors rarely see frontline combat.he was a coward drowning in fear of things that had not even happened yet.because of that fear his name will be remembered in shame and disgrace.because of that fear he will be remembered forever in military history as a COWARD.his actions will make life harder for all muslims in the military from here on out.
When I was stationed in Connecticut, I was surprised at how lax the security was on some days, and then how tight it was on others. There were days when I could have put an atom bomb in the back of my truck and just drove right on through. Other days I got harassed because I left my pocket knife in the console.
How come Obama is saying that we "shouldn't jump to conclusions" about this being terrorism when it was ok for him to call the shooting death of that late-term abortion doctor terrorism?
I don't mean to interrupt your current conversation but does anyone have an answer to this?
Plain and simple, this guy should be dead. Why spend tax money on enemies?
I heard on ABC News tonight that he was yelling something while shooting. Does anyone know what it was?
God is Great in some foriegn language.
it wasn't said in American,..but he was screaming out stuff
Haven't we head prases like that in terrorist attacks and what not?
yes they do,..to praise their God,.. muslims and the American Uniform is a bad mix,..from the get go.
As I have said to you before...they worship the same God that you do. Some pervert it, like many Christians do to their faith. We all know your feelings for Muslims...re the flag wearing thread.
Umm, NO, they do not worship "the same God".
You mean I'm not the only person who believes they don't worship the same God,...LOL
Oh Wow where's Mark when the 'Real' God stands up!
And it was awful what he did... And I'm sure he will receive the death penalty.
Like many other workplace shootings...and that is all we know for sure that it was so far...it is extremely sad and troubling.
His religion does not play into in unless we find out for sure that he did this in the name of some twisted view of his religion.
"And it was awful what he did"
Terrorist acts are usually awful.
Like many other workplace shootings...and that is all we know for sure that it was so far...it is extremely sad and troubling.
we also don't have all the information, this man could have a brain tumor or be mentally ill
Ill people and Mentally ill people doese not plan these kind of attacks out. As for getting the facts the facts are someone dropped the ball back at Walter Reed and shipped this monster out to Fort Hood in which he arrived with red flags waving.
hmm....that gives me an idea for a hub or a thread.
Something on the order of "How rude when people call you condescending things like "dear"?
haha yes indeed. There's no law against being rude. Otherwise, Barney Frank would've been in jail long before now.
What makes you think that Muslims worship a different God than you do? I thought there was only one.
There is. Their god comes from the west.
There is thats where your lack of understanding begins.
My God does not instruct me to kill people in his name,..Thats the difference.
No?...some people seem to disagree with that...
Most Muslims don't believe in killing for their God, that is a perversion of their beliefs.
The Bible does have scriptures calling for killing people for various reasons-particularly those who don't worship as you do. Exodus and Leviticus say so in several places.
Of course, one could interpret these scriptures in historical, social and political context, but then one would have to do the same with like scriptures in the Q'uran.
not all muslims are radical extremists. why lump everyone into the same group? do you want all the extremists religious christians lumped into the same group? of course not.
Write a hub or a poem about the victims and their families...let's craete some lasting writings in honor and memory of them! Email me the link if you do this!
Perhaps she should have left out the "dear," but Uninvited Writer is correct. The God of the three major Western religions -- Judaism, Christianity, and Islam -- is the same. Christians believe Jesus was the Messiah. Jews and Muslims do not. Muslims believe Mohammed was a prophet -- Jews and Christians do not. Very simplistic explanation, I know, but the God worshipped by all three religions is the same.
No one said it per se. It is kind of common knowledge for anyone who studied religions. Those from this Western lineage are known as "people of the book."
But the term peopleof the book is a muslim term. It's not a jewish or christian term.
From what I know, Muslims consider their religion something of the final religion...with Judaism coming first, Christianity second, and Islam last. They recognize these other two religions as having a common heritage--thus, the term. This from a Muslim friend who acquainted me with the term.
But that would be a Muslim point of view.
Just offering general information. Was not intended as a (pathetic) political counterpoint.
I am saying that there could be another point of view. It's not an attack.
From what they taught me in a Christian school at the age of 17-18 or so, and Catholic catechism classes, this is general history of religion knowledge.
Of course, we are all familiar with the Crusades as well, yeah?
That is not what is taught to me at Sunday School.
And why did you bring up the Crusades?
Catholics are very familiar with a long history of religion, . They are also well known to offer good secondary education.
Sorry. Look for that 'kind' of fight elsewhere.
Well, I don't know what authority you want me to point you to, since I had thought this was common knowledge. But if you'd like to read a little bit about the subject, one good book to refer to is "Abraham's Children: Jews, Christians and Muslims in Conversation," by Norman Solomon, Richard Harries and Tim Winter. I remembered being a bit surprised to learn this when I took a course in comparative religion in college about 35 years ago, but that's the way it is.
It also implies some common sense though
Well you're a librarian aren't you. Did you do some research? And what's common about it or is it only common among people who don't believe in any religion.
By the way you don't mean to be rude but you're doing a great job.
this is available for anyone to find out when studying comparative religions. nothing new. UW, I don't think a lot of people really care, to be honest. and yet, these same people are so quick to judge something they know nothing about. the media has become the world's teacher. sad.
It isn't the media per se. It's Fox News and other ditto heads. Ugh.
That book is available on line and in the introduction of the book it mentions that what is written are the views of the author. It is not a fact.
Sorry... But you do know what the study of comparative religions entails, right?
It seems to me you would like to make this spattering of general discussion into a modern (if ya wanna call it that) political fight.
Lita, you might as well give it up. We've handed them the tools to educate themselves on a silver platter, and they have thrown it to the ground. It's like arguing with the people who believe the moon landing was faked on a sound stage in Hollywood. Facts don't sway them, and they cling to their ignorance, even though they could easily educate themselves. It's simply historical fact, not an opinion. I took comparative religion at Texas Christian University, and there could not be a more conservative university in this country. The course was taught by the department of theology, which was comprised almost entirely of Christian scholars. Every student was required to take the course before graduating. Perhaps I should have said this is common knowledge to all educated people. I don't make assumptions without educating myself on the facts beforehand.
Well you missed. You weren't paying attention to what they were saying, were you?
Well, it's one book, are there more and who are these authors?
Try going on Amazon, or doing a Google search, or reading any book on comparative religion. I simply pointed to one of the more well-known works on the subject. It's not a matter of opinion, it's simply a historical fact. You're entitled to believe whatever you want to, and I'm not interested in convincing you of anything. I don't practice any religion, so I don't really have any emotional investment in convincing anyone of anything. I was just surprised that so many people weren't aware of this basic fact. I'm sure any Christian scholar would be happy to educate you on this subject. It's not some subversive Muslim idea. I've never run across anyone in my personal life who didn't know this, quite frankly, and most of my friends are practicing Christians.
The opinion of an enlightened progressive has absolutely no bearing on anyones beliefs, and there are plenty of books that would argue their accessment. They are just books written by men.
Written only by the hand of man. God needed a pencil holder.
Sneak, that book that they were talking about Abraham's Children can be found online. The introduction said that what was written was views by the authors. It's a compilation. There wasn't some kind of get together by the heads of the various religions and sects and so forth agreeing to anything. Thought you should know.
Comparative religion is not just one book...there are hundreds, probably thousands. I have never read that particular book. Most are researched quite extensively.
Before you say it's the "do all,end all" you msut consider the authors motivation. If they have an agenda it will be reflected in the work.
Um, personal essays, I take it? Dear God! They're all out to get y'all. You can't critically analyze while reading, right? So you just better not read it.
Sorry, Sneako. lol But my head hurts.
Try it, ya might like it. It probably won't bite or cause brain damage.
I was going to say that. It's quite possible that those who translated the King James version had an agenda.
It is Q'ran not Koran??????????????????????D:
It was written by the advisary and I'll call it what ever I want.
Well fair play but how would u like the Bible called the bibble
Hey sneakorocksolid. Koran is an acceptable transliteration. So too is Qur’an, Quran, Qur’ān, Alcoran and Al-Qur’ān.
Not sure about this "Q'ran" business.
Thanks! You're still a voice of reason in the wilderness.
yes, this is accurate, thanks for sharing it here. and there are extremists in each religions~~
look at the crazy stuff that took place on the streets of NY today, terrible, but they are extremists.
Sorry, I was channeling another hubber who calls everyone dear when she disagrees with them. I'm not usually rude, really
I guess it's easier to see Muslims as totally alien and different than "us" who always know best.
I think it's you who does not understand. Most Muslims are just as devout as most Christians and believe in God. Are you saying we are like the Ancient Greeks and have many Gods?
Gee, and you wonder why the Crusades happened.
I thought we had advanced since then.
Just an update - death toll now at 14 - One of the Soldiers killed was pregnant.
That is very sad...we should be concentrating more on the victims that tossing around the religious arguments. One man was to blame, not an entire religion. I didn't hate all Christians because of what Timothy McVeigh did. My opinion of his religion did not enter into it at all.
We have just crossed over into...The Twilight Zone
I really have to get out of here
Visit this thread to get back to reality
Well the Military must accept some blame, I mean these people are supposedly checked out medically physciatrically, before being admitted. Our armed forces are as well. There is no way of knowing, whether these guys are unstable, and this guy was clearly stressed about going to Iraq....... What I don't get, is there must have been warning signs he was goingh nutso futso....There always is.
I guess you could shoot him, and save the Dollars, I am of the opinion that possibly he would probably be better off if this happened as once stabilised he will have to face and realise the actions he took. He is weak, and probably won't be capable of handlling that either....... There are no answers... More nutters evolving everyday. This Country has its share.
A kid of 2 has just been murdered, because another gangsters kid died after a Shoot by. That one was seeen to be an accident, the latest is a reciprocal murder. Someone will kill that guunmans kid next and on and on ad nostrum. STOP THEM BREEDING NO IQ CASTRATION>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>only answer I can see. Its always the dumb asses that breed piles of kids.
These events are very sad... and I am saddened by the loss of young life that irrespective of circumstances; has been taken from the families who all would have been proud that their kids had chosen to be at Ft. Hood.
I think many of Scott's very valid points are too deep for many who have reacted from an emotional perspective. There are many factors that have led to these events. Don't ignore the 75 previous suicides that have occurred at this base. The shooter here is a qualified Psych.. and an officer... and was trusted in those roles by many of his young victims.
The 'management' that is ultimately responsible for the events; is, in my unwanted opinion, as much at fault as the shooter!
I hope the families who have lost their loved ones get closure in a way that is not undermined by religion, coverups or excuses.... As Texan wisely stated; with so many produced.. there will always be defects!
PD, it is sad and I believe there is much we will never know.
people are on edge, frustrated, hurt that this is allowed to happen.
so quickly, immediately people begin the blame game.
who was it that said, 'ignorance breeds contempt'?
it does no good for anyone to blame a religious group or a political group as so frequently happens in these forums.
we only know what we are fed by the media as to what happened.
thank you for sharing your insight. I'm signing off tonight.
FORT HOOD SOLDIER EXECUTED VICTIMS
Thank you for bringing us back to the point. We don't know enough yet to draw any conclusions about the perpetrator, and the real issue is the pain and grief of the surviving family members and friends. The loss of our brave countrymen and women is a loss for us all, regardless of our beliefs.
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