Liberals for illegal immigration defend this ?

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   ahorsebackposted 5 years ago

   The Huffington Post ; well known and admittedly liberal news outlet reports that according to Fusion studies 80 % of women and young girls are raped during the long journey of border crossing at our southern border. 80 % !   Previous reports showed that that number has risen from 60% .
   
   Who will defend illegal immigration ?
   Is it worth the voter based gain ?
   What about a woman's rights ?

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      Live to Learnposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      Women's rights? The liberal establishment only pays lip service to the concept.
      
      From Hillary, assuming women have no right to make their own decisions to their turning a blind eye to atrocities against women in Islam...is it any wonder rape is of little consequence in the mad rush to import voters?

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   Kathleen Cochranposted 5 years ago

   "Trump’s demagoguery about immigration has completely ignored the realities that crime has been falling for decades and the undocumented population leveled off years ago."  The Brookings  Institute April 2018

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      ahorsebackposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      Kathleen , Look at the numbers  60-80 % raped .....,seriously ? These are women raped during the  crossing and  Huffington Post is a liberal paper !
      Are you willing to ignore that for party what , ideological addiction ?

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         Kathleen Cochranposted 5 years agoin reply to this

         So what's the take-away here?  If they didn't leave their dangerous countries trying to come to the relative safety of the US, they wouldn't get raped?
         
         What the Brooking's stats show is that, in this country, we are not suffering from illegal immigration as Trump keeps insisting.  He probably thinks one of his family businesses will get the contract to build the wall we apparently don't need.
         
         Yes, I have a party ideological addiction.  It's common sense.

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            ahorsebackposted 5 years agoin reply to this

            80 % of women getting raped is 4 out of 5 ,Kathleen , that may be one "take away" .
            Another ".take away" is that your "common sense  " isn't very common after all ?
            Women anywhere wouldn't want you on a jury in a rape trial .  Of course illegal alien women don't get a trial do they Kathleen ? 
            
            How about the 2000 +  death in the desert , ..........nothing huh ?

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               PrettyPantherposted 5 years agoin reply to this

               How will building a wall prevent these rapes?

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                  ahorsebackposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                  Um how about stop the traffic ,stop the rapes .........?
                  At least stop a great percentage of the traffic ?
                  At least stop a majority of rapes even ?
                  Tell me something  , where are liberal womens outrage at this incredible number ?
                  Oh that's right ,"Identity politics ".

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                     PrettyPantherposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                     Who says we're not outraged by rape, regardless of where it occurs and who perpetrates it? You're inventing a false choice to further your political agenda.

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                        wildernessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                        If they are being raped on their illegal, shadowy trek to avoid the law, and they don't make that trek, then they will not be raped on their illegal, shadowy trek to avoid the law.  Pretty simple.
                        
                        Doesn't say anything about what might happen during the time they are not sneaking across the border, though.  My personal guess is that they will very likely be raped whether climbing over the fence or not.

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                        ahorsebackposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                        Pretty Panther "....... a false choice for my political agenda ....." How is the rape of an illegal female immigrant while immigrating my choice or even my agenda ?  I'm a man and men don't often get raped , I'll tell you what we do though , we don't ignore them  because it makes our particular ideology look bad .
                        
                        Like I've often said ,  large group issues are great liberal causes until the individual has a problem , same for a woman ,same with race , same with minority issues , the group mentality of that party is P.C. just don't expect support for the singular victims .

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                     PrettyPantherposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                     The idea that if one is opposed to wasting billions on a border wall, then one is also supportive of rape is illogical. In fact, it is so stupid that it would receive an "F' in deductive reasoning. It is, however, typical of how you attempt to demonize liberals by creating an irrational and false narrative to suit your political  world view.
                     
                     How will a border wall stop the rape of immigrants? It won't. 
                     
                     Fortunately, I realize your inability to think rationally is not a trait of all conservatives, or even all Trump supporters.  Shall I post a picture of Ivanka yucking it up with Harvey Weinstein and claim she is supportive of rapists? It would make as much sense as your  ridiculous argument.

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                        ahorsebackposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                        Yet still you'd rather politicize my issue of rapes than even acknowledge the number quoted by the Huffington Post that 60-80 percent of female border crossers are raped .....nothing huh ?  Why am I not surprised .   The cost of the wall is a stupid idea but the incredible percentage of women raped ,What ...........Oh well ?

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                        wildernessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                        I doubt that you would find anyone, liberal or conservative, that would support wasting billions on a border wall. 
                        
                        Spending billions to protect the border, while saving even more billions...that you will find at least conservatives supporting.
                        
                        Funny how eliminating the loaded words and making it about fact rather than derogatory terminology changes things, isn't it?

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                           Wesman Todd Shawposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                           

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                           ahorsebackposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                           That is why I took the Huffington Post's numbers and used them . Using  An admittedly liberal news agency report of 80 % to ask the question ,  I mean how can they argue such percentages ?   Liberals here don't seem even willing to admit the  horror to these  illegal women's crossings and crimes against them .
                           
                           Let's divert the conversation to about "The Wall" only?  I guess I'm never surprised much anymore.

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                              PrettyPantherposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                              You're the one politicizing rape in a failed effort to demonize liberals. You brought up the wall. Now you don't like having to defend your own lame argument.
                              
                              "One more plus factor for building a wall , How do liberals morally defend their support for this ?"

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                           PrettyPantherposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                           Lol, there is no credible expert in border security who believes a border wall is a rational solution to the immigration problem. Heck, you yourself thought it should be a "virtual" wall, unless I've mixed you up with some other poster, which is entirely possible.

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                              wildernessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                              Close enough - I think it should be a combination of virtual, bricks and people, depending on location and terrain.
                              
                              But rational or not the only other solution that even might pass political muster is an endless wall of men.  I'm not sure that is any more "rational" than a wall with vastly fewer men.  Really too bad, because I truly think it could all be avoided with employment laws with some real teeth and enforcement.  We'd still have the problem of pregnant women scooting over just long enough to give birth, but that's far better than what we have now.

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                                 PrettyPantherposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                                 Guess what? I agree with most everything you said here.  I don't think an endless wall of men or a physical border wall are practical. I think better enforcement on the employer side would help.

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                                    wildernessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                                    Don't do that, PP!  You'll give me a heart attack!
                                    
                                    Employer enforcement won't help the drug traffic nor provide relief to areas close to the border that are being used for temporary support (health care likely being #1).  But it would certainly help end the long term illegal "immigration" problem - if you can't work you aren't going to get very far outside of California. 
                                    
                                    But we won't do that - employers have too loud a voice (and too big a pocketbook to buy politicians with) and losing that illegal labor would hurt their bottom line.

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                                    Credence2posted 5 years agoin reply to this

                                    It is interesting how the "employment angle" is basically ignored by conservatives. If the penalties for hiring the undocumented becomes draconian, to the point that "business as usual" has to end, that would be much more of a deterrent than any physical wall.
                                    
                                    Why not? It is because Trumps' base and many businesses thrive from the traffic and sweat shop conditions offered these folks. Trumps' approach is "red meat" and  brings cheers from his ignorant populist base, but the people with the money and who are ultimately responsible won't have their feathers ruffled.

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                                       ahorsebackposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                                       Credence ,Now I've been saying that for years here , arrest the darned employers , especially the large ones .    One employer who has a hundred employees is arrested  in each state for one month  , watch all the numbers change drastically ! The only problem as I said , We've been saying just THAT all through the obama years ----And to deaf liberal ears ?
                                       
                                       How the easy solutions run in ideological circles.

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                                          Credence2posted 5 years agoin reply to this

                                          That is good to know, Ahorseback. We are on the same page in that regard, arrest those employers or fine them into the stone age. This problem of the "Mexican Gardner" precedes the administration of Barack Obama. The power of big business and the American Plutocrat,  their running interference to any Meaningful Reform, has been insurmountable for many years. We libs say, how about a little "supply side" theory in regards to staunching the flow of undocumented individuals?

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                                             ahorsebackposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                                             Yes ,except that NOW you on the left are willing to divert to corporate arrests to insure the illegals are able to continue crossing the border to strengthen the voting numbers of democrats ?   Is that how I read your 180 degree turn away from about  eight years ago?.........Just asking .

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                                                Credence2posted 5 years agoin reply to this

                                                Yeah, but if the illegals have no incentive to come, no jobs, and no employers that would risk hiring them, does that not serve us both?
                                                
                                                Interesting how Conservatives always speak of people bumrushing the border to vote for Democrats. I have heard of several states that resist automatic registration for their residents, with GOP legislatures taking the lead, only because they fear that the majority of the population is progressive and making it easier for more people to vote will assure more certain defeat for Republicans. Keeping those marginalized citizens away from the polls, that what Conservative/GOP REALLy want, but they call them "undocumented aliens"?
                                                
                                                Did not mean to digress.......

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                                                   wildernessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                                                   Now that's what I call a great spin!
                                                   
                                                   More to the point is that the GOP doesn't support "automatic registration" because it results in too many illegal (not "undocumented") aliens to vote.  The Dems support it for the same reason as most illegals will vote the Dem ticket.

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                                                      Credence2posted 5 years agoin reply to this

                                                      Allright, what say you to changing the national election days to a Saturday or making the day a legal holiday? Conservatives talk about voter fraud ad naseum... hmm...

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                                                         Live to Learnposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                                                         An election on a nonwork day? I don't think the DNC would approve. That would cause a heavy rise in Republican voting.

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                                                            Credence2posted 5 years agoin reply to this

                                                            Ok, why do you think that? I am fine if more of everybody votes. More means those elected are there as a larger portion of the electorate served participated in the process.
                                                            
                                                            Who has shown itself to more resistant to the idea in principle?

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                                                               Live to Learnposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                                                               It was just a joke credence. No one is resistant to the idea of legal voters.

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                                                         wildernessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                                                         Not a fan of spending millions of dollars to give people another day off.  Also don't see any reason to as polls are open far longer than most people work and they can always vote in absentee anyway.
                                                         
                                                         Saturdays I would expect to lose a lot of votes as people leave town, sleep in, mow lawns or just vegetate in front of a TV.  But wouldn't matter much to me - if you're too lazy to go to the polls on Saturday (or get an ID) we don't need your vote anyway.  The objective is not to get more votes; it is to get more votes from people that care.
                                                         
                                                         What would the rationale possibly be for such an action?

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                                       Hxprofposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                                       Well, here's another conservative that's with you on the employer enforcement.  That said, I still support much stronger border security, including a real wall in places, to provide at least an impediment to illegal border crossings of all kinds, including terrorist.

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                                          Credence2posted 5 years agoin reply to this

                                          Well, here's another conservative that's with you on the employer enforcement.  That said, I still support much stronger border security, including a real wall in places, to provide at least an impediment to illegal border crossings of all kinds, including terrorist.
                                          
                                          Howdy, Prof,
                                          
                                          The biggest problem is the economic incentive to cross at our southern border. This economic incentive can also be blamed for so much of the drug trafficking, the starkness of the have vs the have not scenario. If it were just about terrorism, there is no reason why we should not brick and mortar our border with Canada as well.

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                                       wildernessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                                       LOL  Conservatives have been saying that for years - take away the jobs and they'll leave on their own - while liberals drag their feet.  It is in the hub I wrote 7 years ago, long before Trump hit the scene.
                                       
                                       To blame that failure on the first man in recent history to actually try and DO something about illegals, because he is a business owner that uses illegal labor (without providing proof), is about as silly as you can get.

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                                          Credence2posted 5 years agoin reply to this

                                          I am laughing too, Wilderness. The conservatives are the advocates of the wealthy and powerful, are they not? They will never indict their own. I am sure that they have contributed to "foot dragging" of their own. This problem was not created under President Obama.
                                          
                                          I did not blame the failure on Trump, it is like your attitude regarding restricting bump-stocks, this so called wall will most probably be ineffective, more costly than a moon shot and create more blowback than it solves in our relations with Mexico. You also said that the bump-stock ban was just a 'reaction" to do something, anything. I say the same about Trump and his "Great Wall". Those clambering for denigrating the Mexican people, wholesale, out of racism and xenophobia respond well to the formula, it works for much of Trump's base. It is a lot simpler to punish those that knowingly used undocumented labor as employees. There is a Social Security database where anyone applying for a job anywhere can be 'checked out'. Is it foolproof? No. But this approach seems more credible to me.
                                          
                                          I said nothing about Trump using illegal labor, so those are words that you need to remove from my mouth as you obviously put them there. I say that aristocrats and plutocrats at the top are basically going the bronze their advantages in society and Trump, true to his social class, would never really betray them.

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   ahorsebackposted 5 years ago

   One more plus factor for building a wall , How do liberals morally defend their support for this ? So much for the human treatment of illegal immigrants by the left ?
   

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      wildernessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      By blaming it on conservatives that won't accept a border that can be crossed at will by anyone wishing to feed off of American generosity.

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   Wesman Todd Shawposted 5 years ago

   

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   ahorsebackposted 5 years ago

   All of this is All the more reason for a high tech national voter  I.D. card , much like a chip card with the highest possible federally regulated security imbedded ,...  voter apathy is always going to be a significantly high  percentage of potential voters but because of such polarized parties election accuracy and integrity is paramount .
   Anyone that assumes voting rolls are NOT being played , especially by the left, is dreaming .

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